Testing Another Marble Track
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
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- The Marble pressure relief mechanism is more essential to the success of the Marble Machine X than what it might seem, in todays video i am testing out yet another marble track and finding out an important part of this puzzle :)
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HUGE CREDIT TO THE MARBLE MACHINE X CAD TEAM:
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"I've been staring at CAD for like 3 hours trying to not play chess"... Aha, _now_ I understand today's live stream ;-D !
Are you sure there was no chess at an other screen?
Yes now I do... but that stream was awesome
@@bramhartveld how in the world did you get a Wilson emoji in a UA-cam comment!?! Tell me your secret ways!
@@johnathanclayton2887 maybe cuz hes a channel contributor?
😉
An engineer works with their head, an artist works with their heart, a tradesman works with their hands and a craftsman works with their head, their hands and their heart! You are much more than a musician or an artist. I’m humbled.
There is always going to be a tradeoff between dissipating pressure from the marble stack and the risk of them getting stuck. If _all_ the pressure is being dissipated off to the sides, then effectively the marbles are being _held_ in place against the walls, and getting stuck. The ideal design would be one that dissipates just enough pressure to allow the gates to operate, but not so much that marbles can get jammed inside.
TBH, I think in practice this sort of sticking is going to be a lot less common than in the test setup though, because the whole machine is vibrating, the gates are slamming in and out just under the pressure tracks, there's a lot more 'noise' to jiggle the marbles and keep them moving.
Yeah, for a given maximum friction (marble to marble and marble to wall) you should be able to solve for the maximum safe angle of each bend, where enough of the pressure is always pushing the ball into the next slot to overcome the friction at either contact point. The friction does increase the amount of pressure dissipated at a given angle but probably makes it less consistent; the actual pressure reduction would happen in a friction-free stack of marbles too, and you can maintain a constant angle more easily than a constant friction.
The balls over time polish the wood too.
I think it’s important to get a marble test soon to see how common this theoretical breakdown will be, because if the machine constantly vibrates negating this issue all this extra work is extra. We’re assuming something will go wrong before actually experimentally testing it
I think they'll become more likely to get stuck over time though, because the marbles will bash indents into the wood as they crash into each of the walls in the zig zag. Especially the first one where the pressure is highest. The deeper those dents get, the more they will "catch" the marbles.
@@ninjafruitchilled is that true though? As the marbles wear on the walls wouldn’t that decrease the pressure that causes the marbles to stop as the path is widened from being worn?
4:51 - “have a look at that, 32” ... except there was a jam at the entrance to the pressure gate!
this is not a problem with the gate, just with his test setup
@@professorsniff but he’s using the new tube mounts, which is what failed
Exactly, hopefully Martin notices this comment
I feel like the piano improv at the end is a perfect representation of this entire project and the insane processes that it has gone through. Almost like, “suspenseful and chaotically calm” in a way. Keep up the great work Martin!
4:29 The whole point of designs 2-6 was to prevent this from happening. And yet, it seems that design 6 just renamed this “problem” to a “design choice” what with the hump. It seems to me that design 1 is the best choice and you just need to do whatever work is necessary to make sure they’re all implemented flat and not angled.
This!
I mean he got the marbles stuck on like a 30-40° angle, that is ridiculously angled and would never ever be mounted in such an angle
For the gates which are angled he should just make a separate gate(and I understand that this is counter to one of the goals of this change) trying to design a single gate which can accommodate many angles is going to make some channels have more pressure than others
And the pressure on every channel can be significantly lessened if the gate was adapted to fit each angle(simply changing the last angle in the zigzag)
Wintergratan videos that starts with beautiful music >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything else
*edit* AND ENDS WITH MUSIC TOO
Also, Martin, please consider this. The zig-zag example you were looking at had only one zig in it's path, and your component zig-zags a few times. When tilting the component it seems to me like the reason it gets stuck is because the marble has to work against both gravity and friction to be sufficiently squeezed out of it's spot. The pressure behind it is not great enough to have it pop out, because the marbles behind it too has been zig-zagged and lost their pressure that they should've applied on the marble that gets stuck. It has about a single marble's worth of pressure on top of it to work against a slight incline.
They might not get stuck if there is but one single zig-zag? It is a tight angle the marbles have to be squeezed out of, and they need that pressure I think.
Thank you for writing this comment! This was exactly what I thought, too!
Maybe it is an option to get rid off the tilt.
At this point there are to many factors which work against each other and any compromise he makes will reveal an unseen problem.
I have said this in every one of these videos... The more direction changes the more likely it is to fail.. Part of why the 3D printed design works so well is the more marbles you have in the queue and the more pressure you have, the better the device performs and would work perfectly at an angle...
Im guessing Martin knows this and cant implement it like that because there is stuff directly above the gates... Hence the need to have the marbles flow in at the back rather the top, Im hoping eventually he sees one of our comments (quite a few people have said the same thing) and can act on it....
@@volrath__ to counter the issue of running into other components up top, couldnt he lower the actual drop points to be closer to the instruments? ... that would then also lead to needing to re-adjust the marble catchers locations, but it should be feasible
☝This.
angle the exit pipe from the zig-zag module so that u can have the zig-zag module at 90 degrees. the zig-zag module never needs to be tilted
rossero's design had a vertical drop that relied on gravity combining with the force applied (so when a ball "drops" it frees up space for the previous marble to move) whereas your design seems to come horizontal and not rely on the space created when a marble drops, but simply relies on the marble movement
Listening to Martin playing Music - what a great way to start the day ! Thanks Martin
Anyone else just blown away with his composing? Like I love love love the engineering, but I can't wait to see Martin get back to music
You know, I come for the talk. What I get is a little engineering, a little humor, a little classical, a little of this and a little of that. Thank you and Wilson.
Why do the relief mechanisms need to tilt? Is there no way to mount them all in a common orientation and adjust the before/after components to take up the tilt?
even if you could make them not tilt the mmx wouldn't always be on a perfect level surface
@@rabidcabbage7230 The legs are built to accommodate that and level the machine out.
@@rabidcabbage7230 The MMX already needs to be near perfectly level for the marble divider to work correctly as well as for the marbles to fall onto and bounce off of the instruments correctly. Martin talked about this and the MMX has adjustable feet so that the machine can be leveled before every show.
Same, been thinking this for like 3 episodes - why not just cut the bottom so that it adjusts somewhat for the tilt? a +/- 5 degree tilt shouldn't hurt, so just make 3-4 versions if you want to mass produce them, and select the right mass-produced model for the tilt of the given gate.
That is because it is part of the marble gate assembly, which is the part of the mechanism that needs the weight relief in the first place.
This feels like being entangled by an idea. I think taking a step back and reconsidering would bring more progress than jumping from solution to solution.
Building this machine would make a great engineering class. I love all these videos lately with nuanced problem solving and testing. I feel like Martin has rebuilt these channels about a thousand times by this point but I love seeing what he discovers along the way.
4:50
Wintergatan: This is pretty good!
Marbles: *stuck on entry*
That waltz was really a promising beauty, can’t remember that I have heard it before; is it a new tune? I really miss Wintergatan music, hope you can focus on composition soon, Martin... 😀
It might be worth tracking how "sensitive" it is to getting/staying stuck. The MMX is always going to have a minimum level of vibration when running.
The ending musical sequences in your videos are always such a beautiful reminder that it's not just about the amazing engineering, but the music as well.
I don't know what your day job is, but any manufacturing plant would be lucky to have you as a automation engineer. Your approach to problems and solutions shows off your brilliance, strong engineering core, focus and drive. Your skill and dedication to the Marble Machine X is impressive and inspiring!
martin, now you are making a system with two very distinct marble height levels. (as opposed to a small 1mm difference)
your main level is when the gate is in the resting position,
then when its moved to extract a marble from the queue you will have a nearly half height marble drop,
your current design at the top of the marble divider can not accommodate these two different levels, I know the secondary height is only temporary but this seems like a great opportunity to swap over the the constant radius marble divider.
Best wishes!
Someone already submitted a design for the top of the queue that Martin reviewed a few videos ago on the 2nd channel. It's totally independent of the queue height, which is really nice, and I expect Martin will implement it.
@@okuno54 That's what to OP means by "constant radius marble divider".
+100 for constant radius divider
@@okuno54 yes this is what I was referencing
I love the second channel
Yup, the constant radius marble divider is just.... a complete no-brainer! Should be implemented without any consideration at all of keeping it as it is
Having a gate work at all angles is physically impossible.
it's not
walls made from bearings (at the nominal contact points) might very well address the "works at every angle" problem - since freely spinning bearings would eliminate the variable of friction. the zig zag angles would likely get tighter - to make up for the reduced friction through the zig-zag
@@molak34 @Nathan Brown The marbles are guided through gravity. That's the whole point of the design as it wants to reduce marble pressure as much as possible. Friction isn't the issue. The drop of the lowest marble makes space for the second lowest to fill its spot by falling down. Maybe Martin can make a design that is tolerant enough to work at the range of angles he needs in the MMX, but a design that works at all angles is physically impossible.
@@nathanbrown5916 .
@@ChrisThe1 damn i think you’re actually right...
I watch these videos with my grandkids sometimes. You don't know how informative it is for them to see you playing the piano along with talking engineering and CAD.... thank you for what you are showing them.
With all the comments about the mechanics of the pressure relief mechanism we should not forget the musical genius behind all this. Another awesome touching song at the end, Martin! I love it and hope for some sheet notes for playing it on my own piano, soon! Don't forget your roots in music!
4:52 "Have a look at that 32g" while 60% of the marbles were stuck, haha.
But good job though, i love following along this process
The machine's vibrations would probably shake out any stuck marbles...
@@InventorZahran yea i was thinking the same for nearly all the options... just the impact from new marbles entering the tube from divider would surely be enough to jar it loose. but also maybe giving a fine sand and buff in the path would reduce drag and help the marbles to not get stuck.
This really feels like a physical equivalent to software design. Hours of head bashing followed by asking the internet for answers and moments of brilliance when the answer is suddenly obvious. Also design for reusability and fault tolerance and how brittle designs can send you down a very deep edge case bug hole.
i feel like this is true for any type of engineering lol (im a software engineer fascinated by physical stuff like mechanical and computer engineering)
Dude, keep going! Take healthy breaks, days weeks. Don’t burn yourself out. It’s such a great project and I like being able to watch your progress and the solutions you come up with. I know it’s a different story for you directly, but as a complete layman to what you’re doing, it’s so enjoyable to watch and be surprised with how complex it is! Well done man.
Master Martin, you've become an EXPERT in all this, just -please- don't say: "It's consumed 2 years"; rather, maybe say "you've INVESTED 2 years into this endeavour", no one else has, and your jurney is recorded, ;) **Unique and precious!** Thsi all time invested is awesome! Has inspired many of us that we (are) not to this level of passion... Please keep it going!
Regards from Tabasco, México [Land of The Olmecs] !
Why is he missing the obvious?
The "trap" system relies on gravity operating *downwards*, so by tilting the mechanism, the marbles will stick.
If you have to have the assembly at an angle, rotate the internal pathway in the opposite direction by the same amount.
Requiring an angle based system to survive a tilt test is a bit absurd. Sure, within a few degrees it should perform, but titled back like that, it's going to fail.
yes. no idea why he is pretending that the performance of the geometry vs gravity is independent of its own orientation vs gravity
@@DS-ow2ge it has to do with the geometry of the other parts of the machine. he said some of the channels will need to have this part at an angle. though in my opinion he should fix THAT instead..
@@matsimento Tilting the instrument should have similar effects to tilting the gate, and funnels are adjustable
Actually these bars beneath marble gates can be used to target marbles by bending.
@@matsimento yeah I’ve been pounding this idea in the discord over the last several days. He insists that the tracks need to be tilted back, probably for trajectory, but I feel like that’s something that could be fairly easily fixed by just adjusting the post-marble guide tracks since they’re already designed for accurate trajectory placemat after the marble leads the gate. If he wants the marbles to be a one step solution, he needs to make their implementation as consistent as their design or else they will never perform consistently across each of the channels.
Not only the angle but the speed of the drop. He is slowly releasing the marbles from the path to force a jam and say it won't work, when this is not what the real action is.
i feel like these videos only get more and more impressive design-wise, and even if you don't think they seemed cinematic enough for the main channel, the work you've been doing over at Wintergatan 2 over the last few weeks has been truly amazing!
That's it: All angles between marblas bigger than 90 degrees, no rolling surface parallel or angled backwards when the module is tilted and only forward flow (no ? shape). This way, tolerances and wear of the plywood are much less of an issue and no marble can become wedget between a surface and anothet marble. Nicely done, Martin 👍🏼
This, together with the optimal pressure position as well as a zip tie, preventing the tubes from sliding backwards and out of the collars and you should be safe.
I think it would be a good idea to minimize moments where the marbles will have to flow upwards (like in the tilted gates)
I believe rossero's design fed marbles in from the top, which could reduce that, but you might still have to either limit the tilt or design to accommodate the maximum tilt you have
always love these vids! best of luck!
9:52 For once, i agree with this. You've spent a lot of time thinking about minor details that eventually got thrown in the bin. This gap idea sounds valid to me, and something that isn't likely to change much beyond the prototype. So not a waste of time.
I hope that once mmx is completed we can have a video that is just martin's noodling on the piano for an hour or so, i could listen to it all day tbh
I had been playing the piano 2 years ago and then stopped, because of a horrible teacher, but now the Marble Machine Song inspired me to start practicing again. Thank you, Martin!💜
I love this guy. He's so kind
Me too
And me
And he is the god of marbles.
I have made a engineering observation about you Mr. Martin. In the years I have watched you I have seen you get to the point you are realizing just what it takes. To BE! a marble! to roll and fall and rest as a marble!! I am amazed at how much you've improved your bearing! buh dum bum spshhhh!
So great to hear music and looking so focussed on the beauty of the composition- best part of the video. Makes you happier too I think .
I like how most top comments are people trying to problem solve with Martin. When I watch your videos its always a learning experience, keep up the good work!
Do not try to keep the outlet pressure to a minimum, it is good to have a little pressure all the way to avoid stuck. You must only decreases it strictly necessary so that it does not affect the return of the outlet gate but leaves some pressure throughout. In this case, less pressure does not mean better, but more probability of stuck. Finding a compromise pressure is the ideal
Seriously, find a way to test what sort of pressure on the gates is acceptable and try to get close to that, not as low as possible.
The reason why the marble gets stuck when the module is tilted backwards is pretty obvious. That round curve in the angle (where the marble rests) is allowing gravity to hold the marble there. This only happens when the module is tilted so it's possible that there simply isn't enough pressure to push the marble forward.
I just listened to that piano for 25 times. Absolutely beautiful.
Martin one thing to remember is that you're trying to get it stuck with everything perfectly still, however the marble machine will be wiggling and vibrating which will tend to dislodge marbles that are only very lightly stuck.
I loved that piano song, youre amazing
Any idea where to find it? Is it an original work?
@@MrKrock164 Here you go - it's a piano version of the following song: ua-cam.com/video/SBK2AF-NdVA/v-deo.html
@@MrKrock164 It's a piano version of Sommarfågel, a Wintergatan song.
I suggest rather than using a gap at the top of thr marble gate sliders to use a grove in the middle of the top of these. The marbles will be at the same level but leaving the edges will make the construction far more stable.
I was thinking the same exact thing
Marten, I love you. I love your music. I love your videos. I love your determination to see this through. You are a force of encouragement and positivity in my life and millions of others; all through building a marble machine. Thank you so much.
I don’t comment often, but I really do love what you are creating, and how you discovering new things.
This is the very first time I comment on a UA-cam video. I'm here to say that you have enlightened my days when I didn't know what to do anymore. I hoped for it to be Wednesday so I could watch one of your videos, learn new things and forget about the problems I had. Now it's like the world is perfect, with daily videos, great content, great explanations... I am strongly thinking to study an engineering career because of you! I entered the world of Cad designing because of you! I know you won't read this, but I am really happy to be here and learn from your mistakes and successes. I hope you finish the machine someday so I can be there on your world tour and return all you have lent me. I believe!
"Have a look at that, 32!" - err, Martin. Did you notice your marbles were stuck at the entrance...? 4:50
I will forever maintain the position that if DaVinci were alive today - he’d be this guy haha 😂
Just the fact that the tiny little 3x3” piece of wood that traps/ejects marbles, and the weight variation of all different models of that piece, is just as important to him, and considered just as ‘beautiful’ as absolutely every other part that makes this machine as gorgeous and intricate as it is.
Like the whole ‘No one piece is more or less important than the one preceding/proceeding it’ kind of attitude he has is beyond admirable for his age, meaning there are just decades and decades this guy has left to constantly keep perfecting his craft, because even a true ‘Master’ can never stop learning.
And we have that much time for him to keep pumping out content and machines that just blow the world away because there is, and only ever will be - one - in existence, never to be equaled.
Your hardship and perseverance is a huge source of inspiration. It frames my problems in a new timescale, which make them look a lot more doable. We believe!
The offset groove idea is absolutely brilliant
Me: I am going to bed n-
Martin: NO!
I like how you are getting excited like an engineer would. Your logic process has matured tremendously. Most engineers do not think like an artist would. You are a rare bird when you can excel at both.
Love it when Martin starts his videos with his music.
Machine is awesome Martin. Keep up the awesome work and enjoy the journey. We're all learning a lot from you.
At 4:50, there was a stuck marble when you thought it was only 32 grams!!!!!
Perfection is the enemy of progress. Weren't you making music? How many cool instruments could you have made by now? How many great new musical compositions could be in your library of creations? Time is a limited resource my friend. Lifetime is a limited resource too. What I see is a brilliant source of light diminished by the distraction of rabbit holes. Maybe I'm wrong and no dropped balls in 30,000 is more important than the overall achievement but I've seen you shine and it's a truly wonderful gift to the world. (my note is meant as loving support as we all need to stop and ponder meaning at times)
I think you have done an outstanding job of dismantling bad habits with empiricism. Even if we all have different paths, it's very rewarding to watch someone courageously display the growth process of disciplining themselves to meet higher standards of engineering and meaningfulness.
Good job. I've been following you from the viral moment. You've always been worth watching but you've become meaningful to me by modeling behavior I want to emulate. Things I consider virtues.
Keep designing for manufacture, keep over engineering, and keep questioning everything. I can't wait to see this magnificent project in person someday.
Thanks again. ✌️
You might want to consider the noise the marbles are making, the harsh edges seem to be making a clacking noise and that could drastically increase mechanical noise if you have the same pressure modules on all of the channels
"I've been staring at CAD for like 3 hours trying to not play chess" as a CAD engineer working from home atm, this is the most relatable thing ever.
Up to this point, after 4 years straight of learning with Martin, I think he should give us the degree of his university. The MMX University was good in many case. We have learn how to reading, drawing, cading, machining (event without equipments), and most important, problem solving. Thanks Martin for his university. We should all graduated as MMX engineer now.
I love how this process is turning out! It's making the adjustments to the machine mechanics that is pretty interesting. Also, when you play, it's amazing as well! I could listen to you play all day and night, 24/7, 364 days! Very calming music and easy to concentrate with. Thank you for being you! Keep up the great work!
You doing a concert in Pyongyang would be the best crossover ever
I'm telling you Martin you have to angle the tube that feeds the marbles up so it's flush when it tilts backwards
love watching your train of thought. thank you for letting all of us be apart of your creation!!
Marble track is cool and all but I'm here for the composition creation. I am absolutely loving this melody and progression. Haunting yet powerful.
Martin: “I’m gonna skip weekly videos, takes too much time”
Also Martin: proceeds with creating 2nd channel with daily videos and starts uploading multiple videos and steams per day 😂
-
ps. I’m happy to see the daily videos, super inspired by the progress!!
This is one of the great things about Martin - which show that he is an artist (and not an engineer): He is constantly learning and at the same time violating principles he has just discovered. This is the way to progress in many situations and it comes deep from the heart of a true artist. The whole idea of the marble machine (like all creative inventions) is a violation of "first principle" - because the machine is not necessary at all to achieve the result it generates. I LOVE THIS APPROACH of Martin... it is all about creativity and the unstoppable force that it evokes in humans!
We are living in the era of this genius dude who is so down to earth talented.
Down to earth talented is an amazingly perfect phrase for Martin's talents. His talents are both far from us but also very relatable. It is one of the many reasons I love consuming his content.
i love that the metronome/click track in a wintergatan song is a lovely instrument instead of the thing that the audio producer removes...
Every time I watch your videos, I learn new engineering techniques. I love it!
Constant Radius Marble Divider Gang incoming!
Why not use a combination of track 1 and track 2, use the shallower angle for the first bend to avoid them getting stuck and the original angle for the second bend to reduce the pressure? Best of both worlds
I had a horrible day, this helped me. Thanks, Martin!
What is it about waltzes that just drives straight to my heart? Keep working, Martin. You got this.
Does anyone remember when the first marble machine X episode was? I feel like this journey that Martin has been on has spanned many years of my life. I practically feel as if I've grown up watching him.
[Drake No]: Wintergatan Wednesdays
[Drake Yes]: Wintergatan Everyday
Can't wait to watch the machining and assembly of the slider arm 🦾
MMX: Losing your marbles while trying not to lose your marbles. ...I love this series. :)
there is a correlation between the angle and It working! you should be able to account for the back tilt of the gates easily, so why tilt them tho?
The zig zags are directly above the marble droppers, and those are not level.
wow another upload so soon! I basically _just_ finished watching yesterday's :P
Edit: ok y'all are reminding me of Wintergatan 2, I did see the new channel but I haven't really bothered to fully watch the videos yet, I guess I have things to do now :D
also... don't think Martin's lost his marbles, I think he's quite on track ;)
welcome to wintergatan daily! hes gonna upload daily for a while now
sounds like you missed the dailys on wintergatan 2 if the schedule is new to you. probably a lot of stuff to watch for you then (on wintergatan 2) ;)
If this surprises you, you may want to check out wintergatan 2, where he uploaded nearly daily for the past couple weeks.
I watched all the wintergatan 2 videos in 2 days over last weekend because I had seen the channel once but didn't realize it was a different channel until I couldn't find the video that I had watch from it.
prepare for about 20videos per month
I loved seeing you so happy with this solution, it's exciting to see you get excited like an engineer.
Thats the point where engineering ends and research begins. I would say you are the first marble researcher.
I love the new track you’re working on, can’t wait to see it preformed on the marble machine!! 😍🤩🤩
Day 3: of commenting until Martin implements the "constant radius" marble divider.
It's in the pipeline. Has been discussed on Wintergatan 2
@@martindinner3621 if thats so thats great, in the design review it seemed like the idea was glossed over pretty quick,
You are like Daft Punk, spending so much time to it exactly how you want it.
So awesome! :)
I love how you sprinkle these bits of live played music in your videos. I believe!
*Martin doesn't realize how happy he makes people when he posts.*
Depending on the design of the scale, having a soft surface under it may make it give unreliable readings.
its always a pleasure to hear you play, much preciated, can't wait to hear your music again, and thanks again
oh men... i enjoy so much hear you play again the piano...is sooo relaxing.
Is it possible to bend a PMA pipe to follow the "question mark" path? I think using a PMA pipe a lone would provide enough clearance from the other parts, have less friction to cause the marbles to not get stuck, reduce wear, size shifting from temperature/humidity, and look cool because you'll see the marbles inside.
I’m so excited to see you post every time I click right away! Keep up the amazing work!!!
Nice work Martin! I’m super excited for a 1-size-fits-all marble pressure relief track. Also, as a pianist, remember to keep your fingers curved in both hands!
I love the physics concept that used on this project. Mechanics all the way.
Who else is stoked to hear Martin playing piano again
best pianist in the world...
Beethoven's been real quiet since this dropped
He probably couldn’t hear it
Been that way for a while, actually
@@tylersmallman I think that's the joke
@@disneymore7941 yes. I was attempting to participate in said joke
Really? I'm still waiting for Mozart to release his diss track against Bach! He said it should be up on Soundcloud by now...
So many variables! One variable that can affect your marble tracks is wood density and texture. Before making too many mods, I would coat the trackways in cyanoacrylate and sand to a smooth finish. I should now get accurate, repeatable results when I test.
I relate strongly with the sentiment of "I don't think this is over-engineered". When you have an extremely complex project, simple solutions always look over-engineered. Anything less fails to meet the minimum requirements.