Klingon's View of the Early UFP
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- This is a short part analysis of looking at just how the Federation came to be in 2161 while exploring the varying elements shown in canon with some memory beta content.
Part Three covers at how the early Federation of Planets and Starfleet interacted with the Klingon Empire around the events of the 22nd century in Star Trek including what led to their refusal to take part in the Earth-Romulan War.
Music from bensound.com, purple-planet.com and freesfx.co.uk
Star Trek Online developed by Cryptic Studios and Perfect World.
Star Trek, Star Trek Enterprise/Voyager/Deep Space Nine/Discovery/Lower Decks/Picard and The Next Generation are all owned and distributed by CBS.
Star Trek Films are owned and distributed by Paramount Pictures
This Video is for critical purposes with commentary.
Rick: If only we've got season five to seven of Enterprise...
Me: Amen brother!
Hear, hear!
It really sucks too because IMO season 4 was some of the best Trek ever. Too bad they didn't have that writing crew for seasons 1-3
@@pt29999 They tried too hard to recreate TNG and TOS in seasons 1 and 2. They should have either made it all about the humans intentionally traveling to known aliens to have official first contact or just gone all in on the Temporal Cold War plot line with a fully developed plot. They didn't even ever give Future Guy an official name or backstory.
I'd gladly take 3 more seasons of Enterprise over 1 more season of Discovery.
@@Nostripe361Great as it was, it had no clear arc for multiple seasons. You know writers are running out of ideas when they resort to time travel.
Klingons, the best frienemies that you could ask for.
The Klingons arent evil. Just really like fighting and are just as arrogant as the Vulcans, but in a different aspect. Vulcans think they are smarter than everyone, Klingons think they are stronger than everyone.
Indeed. You hate them when they are against you, but you're very happy to have them on your side.
The Klingons are an interesting bunch, that's for sure
@@tonyjackson4078 AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED,THE"KLINGONGS"ARE THE STRONGEST OUT OF ALL THE ALIEN RACES EVER SHOWN ON ANY OF THE STAR TREK SHOWS AND MOVIES(WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SPECIES 8472),PERIOD.
@@tonyjackson4078
I'd say they are evil. They kill people simply to play honor games. That's pretty evil in my book. Their ethos sounds glorious and all, until real people pay for their honor. And usually, they aren't interested in fair fights.
The romulans might be ruthless, but they are pragmatic. Far safer to deal with. They won't start a war just for sport.
I really wish Enterprise continued on, I wasn't a fan so much in the earlier seasons, but it then got cancelled right as it was hitting it's stride ):
The next season would have had the Kzinti
@@yeenmachine206 No, the writers have already said that season 5 would've covered what happened to the Suliban.
Absolutely, this era of Star Trek is rich with opportunities.
I only saw parts of the first season of Enterprise and was kinda meh on it so I didn't keep watching... but in the years since I've kept hearing it had started to hit it's stride in later seasons. Makes me want to go back and watch it some time.
Personally I dislike the final episode
"If words were water, the Federation would drown us with their diplomacy." Karn the Undying
Beat me to it by 10 hours! Love that line...
Nice comparison. Looks like Karn is a poet too ;)
Considering the Klingon distaste of water...
One of the things that a Star Trek really gets right from a political science perspective is the depiction of the Klingon aristocrat-led, semi-feudal honor culture, where maintaining honor becomes eventually becomes about maintaining the *appearance* of honor. Which inevitably leads to all sorts of plausibly-deniable courtly skulduggery. This is *exactly* how such societies are described in, say, Montesquieu’s Spirit of Laws.
Klingon honor has always been fluid they do dishonorable things to win battle as worf said in one DS9 episode there is no greater honor then victory.
Ugnutz I think it’s more that political machinations of, say, House Duras are perfectly in keeping with how honor cultures function in a society like this, where honor is subordinate to appearances. Its why that house mostly acts through intermediaries.
Just look at medieval japan as a good example of that. It's all about saving face
@@kevlar3994 Or the courts of Bourbon France
All societies work this way. Whether the virtue they emphasize is honor or something else like reason, kindness, entrepreneurial craft, religious adherence, or whatever else, the hierarchy has to put forth a perception of valuing that virtue and having an abundance of it in their governing philosophy. It creates faith and legitimacy. You'd be very hard-pressed to find any society in human history without ritual supplication to an ideal, even if it's a multi-cultural society where singular virtues are all supposed to be subjective or practiced in moderation for the sake of allowing people their differences. That pluralism BECOMES the ideal.
Klingons kept telling the Humans that the Federation is just a Human Empire, the other Federations races keep trying to tell the Klingons to stop telling the humans that as they haven't realised it and they want to keep it that way.
Like quark wanting odo to be the security officer
If you know the rigidity of something you can better work with it
Considering that the Federation was composed of races throughout the Federation, that wouldn't make the Federation a Human empire.
@@CelticVictory considering that most of starfleet and federation staff are Human, I say it would
@@CelticVictory Humans are attracted to the concept of StarFleet and _a lot_ apply, and since it grew out of a Human organisation. Humans may have had an unintentional advantage in selection criteria: - _extreme curiosity,_ moderate but _controlled_ aggression, competitive but cooperative at the same time, forms tribal bond with assigned group readily, s̶e̶x̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶t̶t̶r̶a̶c̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶m̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶H̶u̶m̶a̶n̶o̶i̶d̶s̶, socially gregarious.
That's a checklist of the average Human psychology in Federation society compared to other species.
It was mentioned in storyboards for post Dominion War series concepts (before Nemesis flopped) that the Federation was profoundly changed, partially because since so many Humans were in StarFleet and so many had been lost during the war, that the entire cultural makeup of StarFleet was changing, as they were actively recruiting from non Human species as most of the suitable Human candidates had been killed during the war since they readily volunteered… interstellar war? Most Humans that could meet the standards would jump at the chance fast enough to make a Klingon proud.
So the other species that usually sat back and let the more assertive Humans volunteer for Starfleet service and crowd out their numbers were being asked to step up.
Thus Humans went from being the majority of StarFleet to a minority, especially among the newer recruits - the old guard Humans were tough though, being the survivors of a nasty war.
Most of the new recruits however weren't Humans.
While the Klingons lost a higher percentage of combat capable Young adults, they were just replaced with the same ethnic mix of more Klingons - perhaps more females as a lot of the glorious dead would have been the eager young men, but that's just supposition.
@@lEGOBOT2565 It's not that they are all staffed by humans, that's just what we get to see. There are references to all Vulcan crews but we get shown mostly human crews for budget reasons. Starfleet is more than just human officers.
"Twirling their moustaches" You know we really need moustached Romulans.
@Joshua Sharwood I believe so.
I don't think elves from Middle Earth can grow facial hair. Whichs means romulans on CBS can't either.
only in the mirrorverse!
They have them in their souls. :)
Technically wouldnt the first bearded Romulan have been Sybok?
He was a fan of passion over logic and had a sense of humor.
Klingons are easy to deal with, just tell them that whatever threat you're dealing with called them a Bloodless Targ, and they'll happily join up with you.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, .. but you will not believe what that guy over there said about your mother.
@@krispalermo8133 that she has a smooth forehead?
From what I have read in various novels humanity is simply more expansive than most other species in the Federation. Most species just don't really want to set up do many colonies without need. Also consider environmental needs, humanity can adapt to most climates. Vulcans for example can adapt but on the whole do best in desert conditions. Another factor is that most nonhuman colonies are under the government of the homeworld, whereas human colonies tend to be independent. So I would say that there is a significant difference in cultures. Most nonhumans are fine within the bounds while humanity is usually pushing the bounds.
And Andorians do better on ice worlds. I think your premise is sound. Your comment on colonies makes sense. And Starfleet vessels with large human crews set their controls to an Earthlike environment. As such, humans are more likely to serve on such vessels while other races would likely serve on vessels crewed by their own people which wouldn't be as humid, cold, etc. We do know that there were Vulcan ships entirely crewed by Vulcans in the 24th century. Since we only see Starfleet vessels that are largely crewed by humans, we only see those nonhumans comfortable adapting to an environment that doesn't feel climatically comfortable. We don't see the vessels crewed by members of species who don't want to adapt to an alien environment.
Human colonies are technically represented in the federation by the United Earth Government.
I've noticed something different between humans and everyone else. The Kingons, Romulans and Cardassians start tend to be close,d rigid societies and we only ever get to see the leading species. The Federation, on the other hand, tends to be open and we see lots of folks.
Also, the Federation is quick to move forward. They're light and don't bother securing their explored territory They're attitude seems to be, "You want to be one of us, cool. If not, that's O.K. too. Here's how the navigation beacons work. Here's what we do and no not allow in our lanes. Have fun!"
On the other hand, the Cardassians occupy and opress the Bajorans for fifty years and you have to wonder how many other worlds they did that to, only without the natives winning their freedom. Romulans, Klingons? The humans and the Federation they're a part of aren't just expansive, they prioritize parsecs over prefectures. Exactly not like any other their neighbors, which might be why none of them can ever come to grips with the UFP.
@@quisqueyanguy120 That from what I can tell is the case in the beginning. Both Deneva and Cestus 3 started out as colonies but eventually became full member worlds of the Federation. While I have never come across anything which gives details I expect that there are criteria for it happening.
Likeliest the process is analogous to how a state became a state in the US. The constitution lays out minimal requirements for population and organization. The requirements for a world with an indigenous people are of course different. These requirements include Warp capability, a unified World government, and various other things.
One thing that baffled me about the Klingons was how they kept up with Federation science. They had scientists sure but they gained little respect compared to warriors. The Federation races by comparison were voraciously inventive, always coming up with new technology. If the two cultures were equal by Kiel’s time then by Picard the Klingons should be hopelessly outdated and outclassed in ship design. The only answer I can find is the Klingons has spies in the Federation, funnelling them stole technologies to keep up.
Devil's advocate: their science was less...ethical, allowing for faster more efficient advancements at the expense of Klingon suffering under the guise of honor and duty.
"But, spies are not honorable.
How dare you insult the Klingon Empire with such baseless accusations, you...!"
Klingons stole cloaking tech from the Romulans. Not hard to believe the klingon's update their tech both from the occasional internal development and the lucky finds from victorious battles.
@Beniboi there is no true canon answer. In Star Trek Online, one character makes a passing comment about Klingons stealing cloak tech. In Worlds of the Federation, it's stated the cloak was part of the D7 exchange. In another book, it's claimed the ancient Klingons traded warp drive to the romulans in exchange for the romulan cloak. No one answer has been canonised, other than we know the Romulans are the originators.
"If you touch me again, I will break every bone in your body." - said Grilka in a calm voice while smiling at Quark. :)
True Klingon diplomacy. I always loved Martok and his wifes banter.
@@DanielTsosie Endless battles, you win some, lose many, yet in the end, we all lose the great war with them. Ah, .. marriage, its.. Glorious !
Or Quark going over the Grilka's families finances in front of Gowron and all the Klingons getting confused while trying to keep up.
The funniest thing about Archer in the Klingon court was that they considered him a nuisance
A lot of people like to say that Enterprise conflicts with TNG when Picard says that first contact with the Klingons was a disaster. Well it clearly wasn't a success. In fact, since eventually it would lead to a 70 year war, with an additional 90 years of back and forth, I'd say it was a disaster.
That being said, it would be nice if CBS did a mini-series of the Romulan war period. Bring back the Enterprise crew, give them the All Access movie budgets, and use the ENT style ships. Of course just make sure than Kirtzman has nothing to do with it.
I give ENT a slight pass because it's a result of First Contact
Given the amount of prequel shows we've had so far, I would be interested in something like a 3d animated mini-series of the Earth-Romulan war period
What turned me off of watching ST: ENT was the _first contact_ with Klingons in 2154; the ST: TOS episode 'Day of the Dove' established first contact with the Klingon Empire in *2218*!
It's important to remember that the Enterprise encountered the Klingons far earlier than they were supposed to. Klaang was driven to Earth by the Suliban. The Suliban were pursuing him because he had information about their attempts to destabilize the Klingon Empire. Klaang would've been no where near Earth if the temporal cold war never occurred and Earth wouldn't have encountered the Klingons. And if they did a miniseries of the Earth-Romulan War, you know Kurtzman would be involved.
Wouldn't need to use the original Enterprise crew; different cast/characters with the same ship. The original would've been scattered throughout the fleet to command other starships. . .
I so want someone to pick up on this.
In TOS and Ent there are very strong signs the The Klingons are suffering a multi-generational economic collapse. Without having much understanding as to why or what to do about it, it pushed Klingons into their raiding behavior. I hisghly suspect that part of the benefit to the Klingons in the Khitomer Accords was help to restructure their econmy into a more sustainable shape.
Arik Soong here made me want a video on the Soong family, from Arik to Altan
That would be awesome
I always thought that the reason humans were so common in starfleet was because of the ideals held by humans. More humans grew up with these stories of human progress up until Starfleet "the greatest institution ever conceived" so more humans joined starfleet.
Manifest Destiny Star Trek Style.
I always thought that it was due to the limitations of the make up budget.
@@rinck17 it is.
Perhalps the adventures and mishalps that human ships got into, made for better storys for humans, than experiments and research abord vulken science vessles?
@@rinck17 The real reason.
Been really enjoying these videos. Now I am rewatching Enterprise. While I think Vulcans can be sticks in the mud, I am seeing humans more rambunctious children this time around. I mean come on not waiting seven days to scan a planet just because you want to get some "fresh" air is careless for supposedly humanity's best.
Also I see more of the Romulan taint in the Vulcan people. Or have the Vulcans just progressed farther from the ways of their cousins by the time of later shows?
It's to show that Vulcans observe while humans explore. It's to highlight the differences between the two species.
I mean it does get shown in enterprise that the Vulcans regained the true teachings of Surak in season 4, which implies they’d lost them to start with
Even in the 24th century, relations with the Federation were problematic.
Crazy-Eyes Gowron !
I always wondered how they managed to get themselves out of the Stone Age.
The Hurq invaded them, they stole tech from them, then drove them off
@@lovipoekimo176 Figures.
@@MandoMTL Well, not so long ago Klingons didn't value conquest and bloodshed above all else. Given what we've seen and heard of Kahless's teachings, the notion that he was the greatest warrior of all time was probably an invention of later generations as the warrior caste grew in power and Klingons culture shifted to finding honour in any form of bloodshed. Kahless taught wisdom and restraint.
@@ffnbbq It really is hard to imagine them as scholars. Of course that's my bias speaking.
What do you mean? Humanity focused on war and bloodshed not too long ago for most of our history, and *we* got out of the Stone Age.
"Humans have there own concept of honor and apply those notions to Klingons but the two are not 1-to-1 compatible."
True, it was also vise-versa with the Klingons doing it to Humans as well. Plus I would like to add that as the two species intermingled more over time both culturally and biologically, said notions to begin to adjust and become compatible. As evident by both Worf and B'elanna having there personal codes of honor being a mix of the two.
SF Debris made a video about how Worf was shaped by human honor, how that put him in conflict with other Klingons, and how those concepts differ.
@@christopherwall2121 Worf was the most klingon to ever klingon this annoyed Jadzia, his rigid code of honor as being raised by humans made him overcompensate on his klingon beliefs he was for all intents and purposes a fundamentalist Klingon.
@@Ugnutz it worked to his advantage sometimes though, it meant he was willing to call other Klingons out on their bullshit when they always boast about honor, then do something exceptionally underhanded.
@@christopherwall2121 That basically is what isn't compatible, for the most part.
Klingon honor is a more fluid concept when applied then when it's reviewed, as I understand it they used to have a whole array of things they considered honorable such as being good at your job (Not necessarily just for warriors, which now makes me think of honorable Klingon pastry chefs...)
But this was then skewed super heavily towards just fighting when their society morphed to overrepresent their warriors.
@@Reddotzebra Klingon pastry chefs? I'd very much like to know more about klingon sweets and desserts! 😛
Ah loved seeing that Andorian/Klingon fight. Though one of the biggest missed opportunities of the post Dominion war era was to go forward with the obvious parallels of the Earth/Romulan war and create a grander Federation, right down to the pugnacious warrior race with an interest in curved blades and birdlike ships, aligned to the smug, inscrutable space elves they generally disliked, the shorter disagreeable species with a penchant for technical prowess, and the humans that kept everything running. Would have made the like clockwork breaking of treaties that the writers make the Klingons go through more palatable if at SOME point all those overtures paid off with lasting peace.
Yeah, Enterprise was finally hitting its stride in season 4. Wish we could of seen more
"How did you first make Diplomatic contact with the Klingons?"
"The first vessel that met them was attacked and destroyed. From then on we fired on every klingon ship encountered without hesistation. That show of strenght build respect. Until they finally accepted diplomatic envoys."
I don’t know, Disco still makes no sense in Canon to me
@JRPGFan20000 Granted this could have been during the time that the Romulans had begun to infiltrate the Vulcan High Command as shown by Enterprise series. Perhaps they pushed a more aggressive move to bring the Klingon Barbarians to heel.
That never happened, if anything, the Vulcans would just label the Klingons as a hostile and illogical race to be avoided.
They wouldn't start shooting Klingon ships as a sign of "look, bro, we're tough too!"
@JRPGFan20000 Agreed. I have not watched discovery at all actually. Looks bad. Just thought that it could still make sense for that to be canon even without disco trek.
I have to agree, even in Enterprise, the Vulcans are still fully displayed as being pretty peacful. While they do pull off some stuff, the firing on every ship they come across doesn't fit even their MO at this point in the franchise. Sorry, like the MCU, DISCO has its own timeline.
I still love the Enterprise series, it ended too soon! 😢
"Ah, Captain! Welcome back to Qo'noS. What news do you bring?"
"Greeting Chancellor. There is a new race out among the stars now. The call themselves "humans"."
"New friends, or foes?"
"They have befriended the Vulcans, sir."
"Oh ... so a bunch of pussies then."
"Maybe ... maybe not!"
I don't know. We get to know the charming side of Vulcans, but I suspect that they could be ruthless when it's logical to be so.
@@frankharr9466 I believe ruthless Vulcans are called "Romulans".
@@Grubnar
No. Ruthlessness is a tool. How it's applied tells you who's wielding it. Remember what Spock said about his dad'd ability to kill if it were logical to do so?
@@frankharr9466 "Remember what Spock said about his dad'd ability to kill if it were logical to do so?"
No, when was that?
@@Grubnar
Something like he would do so with logical efficiency.
ooh! Klingons having human DNA could explain why human & Klingon children are possible.
Nope. All humanoids races in the galaxy are reproductively compatible because life has been seeded million of years ago by a single precursor race. TNG season 6 episode 20.
Granted, this is not how species evolution works, but hey, that's the canonical explanation.
@@captainufo4587 oh right. I don't think about that bit of lore very often. So in cannon that works too.
@@kairon156 Canon about interbreeding is kind of weird.
In an Enterprise episode about a time travel ship, Pholx looks over the dead body of the pilot and mentions how without medical aid it would have been impossible for some of the species in his ancestry to crossbreed. And in another episode with a half human half vulcan baby made by science, it is again mentioned how hard it is for the two species to procreate if at all possible and the baby does die by genetic disorder later.
I'm gonna guess that while possible, it is difficult to get pregnant and said baby will need immediate medical aid to prevent genetic disorders or sterility
@@Nostripe361 If I recall the baby died due to a flawed technique used to make her.
Flox stated something along the line of, if he made the child it would have lived a full and healthy life.
I like to imagine some species are more compatible than others.
@@kairon156 That works. Its been a couple years since i last saw it so you could be right about the baby.
The way I see it would be the closer your species is in looks and planetary environment the more likely you are to succeed. So a human and Vulcan will more likely have a hybrid then a human and a Klingon but the chances are still low. Another issue would be how you breed since some species like Andorians have more than two genders. Still you do have a chance to have a child if persistent enough.
I also feel that you would need to have a doctor look over the child due to the increased chance of genetic disorders or issues. For example a human vulcan hybrid might need medical care if say, their human characteristics are weakened or damaged by the copper based blood of Vulcans.
They sound a little like feudal Japan.
With some Viking mixed in.
Richard Lahan Yep!
@Joshua Sharwood Would be a nice one-off episode, maybe set in the Mirror Universe.
@@richardlahan7068 , Viking Samurai
I kinda see the Klingon empire like the Mongols/Feudal Japanese...
I really wish Star Trek would show more of the non-warrior side of Klingon society. It's so one-dimensionally represented across the shows. Just once, can't we just have a Klingon teenager screech out, "Screw this warrior crap! I'm gonna be a musician!"
What are you talking about? All the best warriors are poets.
Klingon culture actually highly prizes art, and opera. They just view it through a very combat heavy warrior lence. But I doubt a house would be that up set a child wanted to go study the arts,
We have seen several examples of non-warriors ( albeit still beligerant ) klingons in TNG & DS9: Worf's son Alexander held onto his mother's beliefs of a destiny beyond soldiering while living with his father, and Dr. Crusher had a small cat-fight with a female klingon scientist ( klingon science - ha!). On Sisko's watch, fans saw a chef open a klingon restaurant on the promenade and Worf was persecuted by a lawyer representing the empire.
Although Star Trek writers have broken the klingon mold several times, you must admit a whole episode devoted to a peta'Q storyline would not satisfy your bloodlust 👹
The doctor in Enterprise as well as the lawyer Klingons fit that bill. Both of those were decent non-warrior Klingons. Although you're right, they seem to always be more or less throwaway story arcs.
@@Zachomara Um, are you saying that Dr. Phlox was Klingon? Because if so, no, he was not. He was Denobulan.
@@tiggergolah no, he means Antaak, Klingon Physician who the one in charge of the looking into the creation of Klingon Augments.
Why are the Klingons still using warp drives 🤦🏾🤦🏾🤦🏾 they have 1k years on humans
I hate the look of the discovery Klingons!!
"Kling-orks". But seriously, I wish that there was story behind the look, such as they are ancient Klingons, maybe crossbred with the Hurk, the formal conquerers of the Klingons.
well humans seem to have the biggest population, by alot in the entire federation
Its tricky to judge some species. Vulcans and Andorians seem to be relatively small in population, but not much information is available on Tellerites. Its entirely possible you're right, or just that we mostly see things from an Earth-centric perspective. Its very rare to see anything happening on any other world other than Earth.
Well, there was the DS9 episode, "Take me out to the holosuite". Sisko and crew played a baseball game against Vulcans and didn't they say they're whole ship was a Vulcan crew? Maybe there's a lot if ships like that where most or all the crew is one species.
@@andromidius ; The Federation as of the late 24th century (the most populous of the Alpha / Beta Quadrant powers) has a population of around 800-900 billion and around 200 or so species. This leads to an population average of 4 to 4.5 Billion. Also Andoria only has a population of 3.5 Billion, Romulus has a less than 1 Billion, Earth has nearly 10 Billion and most known major Federation colonies are predominantly human. If I was to guess Humans at minimum have a population of 20-30 Billion and at most 70-80 Billion.
Still for a point of reference in the the USA despite having only 5% of the population Earth has 25% of it's GDP and more than 90% of Earth's long range expeditionary blue water naval military power.
Well it doesn't sound like the Vulcans would be big on having large families. The humans of the Federation, I might imagine, have the mind set of have as many kids as you want. With the elimination of poverty and hunger on Earth and plenty of colonies those that want to have families of say at least 4 or more kids would be free to do so without government restrictions.
I do wanne clearefy that cause humans seem to be the biggest in number (by a long shot at times) that that's why the federation seems/is focused on humans? Or takes them as reference points
Did Disco ever explain how Klingons have cloaking before the Romulans traded it to them for the D7/Warp travel?
The Romulans have always had warp drive by the time we meet them even during TOS. That "simple impulse" line by Scotty was misinterpreted by fans of that era who didn't take into account the VAST distances between stars. The Romulans can't very well have an interstellar empire or wage war against Earth if it took them decades to travel at sublight.
As for Klingon cloaking, probably a continuity snafu. The same thing happened on Enterprise in "Minefield".
@@ffnbbq I took the impulse line to mean that that was how fast the bird of prey was traveling at that moment. I agree that they'd have to have warp drive. They couldn't have fought a war against Earth without it.
'Power is simple impulse' (aka fusion?) As Scotty put it...
does not have to mean 'PROPULSION is simple impulse', too.
Ka Pla everyone.
Discovery screwed canon so badly that it shouldn't even be considered in any discussion of the topic.
If the Vulcans really did open fire immediately (which isn't logical as 1 Klingon ship doesn't represent the species, and it could have been a mistake) the Klingons would not "mock their logic", but they'd look forward to doing battle with them. It's like if a kid wants to play Call of Duty, and he meets a group that immediately plays CoD with him everytime they meet. He wouldn't mock that group, he'd look forward to meeting them.
Also, how can you mispronounce Azetbur when her name was pronounced in the movie?
I agree with you on Discovery. As far as I'm concerned, it is not canon. It doesn't make sense for the Vulcans to fire first. That is an illogical move. Firing first is something the Klingons would do. The Vulcans do their best to avoid conflict.
Amen brother!
@John James Ruthlessness is illogical. The Klingons respond to force with force. You attack them, you start a war. Vulcans are also pacifists and prefer peaceful solutions to violent ones. So their explanation is no explanation at all.
Didn't the klingons trade the Romulins D7's for cloaking technology...?
And what are the creatures on discovery pretending to be klingons??
Klingoff
Poor fan fiction. We never speak of STD.
@@Yroko I got herpes from watch that show. Thank you, I'm here all week!
Like earth there are several groups of klingon that look different from each other. Each group fell under a House like the various nations on earth have nations. Eventually through conquest of the various groups the klingon appearance stabalized over the generations to what you see in the shows and movies today.
@@thianraven1 yes but all humans are the same despite minor differences such as , color, shape. There are no purple skinned humans with cranial ridges and sensory organs on the side of their heads. How is it that Vulcans and romulans look the same no matter what the interation or timeline yet they have completely butchered something that has already been established as canonical. Good pov though. I appreciate it.
Arent the Klingons the Beta equivalent to the Kazon a race that was conquered and broke their chains and took their masters tech which is why their slow in development?
No, the Klingons were never conquered.
@@CelticVictory they were conquered by the Hurq. Also, in the Mirror Universe they were conquered by the Terran Empire.
@@HepCatJack No, they weren't. The Hurq are scavengers not conquerors. They stole from the Klingons but they didn't stay. And who in the mirror universe were conquered? Hurq or Klingons? The Hurq have been dead for a long time. The Klingons formed a military alliance with the Cardassians to defeat the Terran Empire. A dubious feat if they had been conquered by the Terrans.
Actually it was supposed to be the exact opposite. But the Kazon characters were so badly written and the makeup effects were so Horrible that Voyagers writers pretty much gave up on them and made them standard bad guys. A shame they couldn’t do better by the Seska character which had some promise.
My God, but I loved that explanation for why TOS Klingons looked different from TNG onward era Klingons! ^_^
It just fit so perfectly into Trek history (using elements from TOS in an inventive [if not fully truly scientific] way to explain the difference).
Its a shame that the show wasn't given one more season, as it was finally becoming the prequel series that fans wanted (and one that was finally using Trek history, unlike some OTHER prequels 9_9)
Klingon's are great frienamies ....
If you lone them any credits DON'T expect to see a return .
Most important .... DON'T barrow a Bat'leth to do your gardening .
It's NOT A WEEDWACKER .
I feel like the virus was simply a way to explain away the Klingon's appearance in the original Star Trek.
No shit Sherlock
Well, yeah. I always preferred Worf's explanation in "Trials and Tribble-ations", but apparently *some people* thought a simple makeup change needed to be "explained". (Said people were also dissatisfied with Roddenberry's original explanation, when ST:TMP came out - that Klingons always looked that way, they just couldn't afford to show it.)
@John James That *was* his explanation, and all that was necessary - "We do not discuss it with -- outsiders."
@John James It's all the explanation that was ever needed. Why did their appearance change? None of our business, really.
"Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks!"
Dr. Su played in the Orville. Nice! Matter of fact, after going back to watch Star Trek as an adult, I've noticed so many people from S.T. that played in The Orville.
It was nice
when is the next season of that coming online?
This bloody 'mispronounced names' thing is spreading...
It's "Az-et-burr", not "Azoot-bah".
Is it too much to ask that a video about Star Trek is narrated by someone who's actually SEEN Star Trek?
I swear to god, if I open this video and I see DISCO crap.....DAMMIT!!!
Wonderful video, respectful to canon, informative and “historical”, much appreciated mate
"klingons never been friendly with romulans" but didn't they have a trade where the romulans gave the klingons the cloaking device for their ships?
"Are the Romulans more diplomatic?"
The quote is patently false. The Klingons had a brief alliance with the Romulans. Relations didn't go down hill until after the alliance as the two cultures had two completely different sets of values.
@Flekk Bone Gnawer well, you have to be kinda neutral and not at each others throat to do a trade, especially when it's something valuable as a ship cloaking device
You’d be surprised. The Argentinians used a british built WW2 era carrier (that they admittedly bought off the Dutch) and two modern (for the 80s) british type 42 destroyers that they bought directly from the British during the Falklands war (and you should tell it to anyone who talks about that bullshit with France and the Exocets)
@@johnlavery3433 they bought it during the war from the nation they were at war with? O_o
Very important Klang was returned to the Empire otherwise he never could have starred in Next Friday ;-)
Romulens twirling moustaches......something I've never seen.
0:57 well apart from doctors, I mean you would think that a race that whips out a blade if someone tells a bad joke and that looks at punching each other as a pass time would have some of the best doctors in the setting but nooooo apparently there is no honour in fixing all them broken warriors.
Klingons don’t have honour they have what I call Fake HONOR (the misspelling is intentional) at a glance it looks like real Honour and it definitely sounds like honour when it is retold in stores but it’s far from it the most honourable Klingon is Worf because he has been rased by humans but has heard the story’s Klingons tell and in Worfs head he has built this image of what a KLINGON should be but that’s the problem and it’s one that people like Picard, Dax and Sisko understand, Klingons say HONOUR but they mean HONOR aka they will more than willingly throw someone under the bus to save face even if that person did nothing wrong as long as it looks like their been honourable that’s all that matters.
The misspell is weird way to take a jab at the US English lol. Thanks, doe.
2 beta canon sources say that the Klingons did discrimination against the smooth forehead Klingons.
Yes I asked for this this should be good keep up the excellent work.
Enterprise and, especially, STD should not be taken as canon.
Anytime I see Certifiably Ingame I take a minute to watch . Great job as usual .
Glory to you and your House.
We do not know if Star Trek broken bow which first air show in Star Terk enterpise if NX Enterprise enter Kligion space with or with out promise. We know mission approve by Starfleet command and Vuclan high command did send a officer to help NX Enterprise in that mission. KLigion also requested that body be return Empire. Most likely NX Enterprise had promission to enter Kligion space.
What is the background music anyone please?
Fascinating information of Earths early 21st century fictional information on the Klingons and the Federation/Starfleet.
Thank You for not including STD timeline in this video.
1:46 lol the "
buttleth"
Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek Online are not canon.
What about the Tribble-Klingon war ? Surely many songs were sung of the Glorious Tribble Hunt. (100 brownie points if you know what episode and show).
Stop beating the dead horse Odo
I don’t expect it to be stated in any source except as inference (and even then barely), but was humanity/ The Federation ever thought of by other species as the Federation used to think of the Borg very early on (a distant threat/ legend)?
That would be a cool idea for a one of episode or even a main threat for a show. I have played around with the idea for a fan fic. What if a Star Fleet ship encounters a civilization that has built up their military fearing Federation aggression. They would be decedents of aliens that strongly opposed their home world joining the Federation as they viewed it has the death of their civilization and nationality. I do get the vibe from some star fleet officers that a race joining the Federation is a sign of eventuality progress.
This is why the Gorn attacked a Federation settlement in their territory. They saw the Federation’s mistake as outright aggression because they feared Federation expansion. And the Gorn warrior who fought Kirk is a hero in their culture. After all, the Federation DID pull out of that system. A Gorn win with very few casualties on their side. But in typical human fashion, the Federation paints it as a win for Kirk.
Get rid of the Kurtzman/JJ crap.
Klingon Emperor Gazkull Mag Uruk Thraka received a vision from Gorg and Morg (after a bit to fungus wine) which said to krump da umies!
If you want to read a very interesting and amusing take on the Klingon viewpoint towards the romulans and the federation, read the book: The Final Reflection. It's done from the Klingon point of view and adds a lot more to their culture and takes place between the Founding of the federation and the first federation transporter system being unveiled after a klingon crew is invited to Earth to pick up the first ambassador to the klingon Empire.
"During the War"
"RISE" of the Federation and thus "UNCERTAIN" logic...
Loved how it was explained about them looking hecka human *Star Trek original *
Can we get a breakdown of how the klingons would of won the war in yesterday's enterprise
They would have been totally unprepared for the Borg.
I've noticed something different between humans and everyone else. The Kingons, Romulans and Cardassians start tend to be close,d rigid societies and we only ever get to see the leading species. The Federation, on the other hand, tends to be open and we see lots of folks.
Also, the Federation is quick to move forward. They're light and don't bother securing their explored territory They're attitude seems to be, "You want to be one of us, cool. If not, that's O.K. too. Here's how the navigation beacons work. Here's what we do and no not allow in our lanes. Have fun!"
On the other hand, the Cardassians occupy and opress the Bajorans for fifty years and you have to wonder how many other worlds they did that to, only without the natives winning their freedom. Romulans, Klingons? The humans and the Federation they're a part of aren't just expansive, they prioritize parsecs over prefectures. Exactly not like any other their neighbors, which might be why none of them can ever come to grips with the UFP.
This is really making me wonder about that bit in the Krenim weapon video mentioning that the Klingon culture was shaped by the Hurq. You should delve into that history if you haven't already.
He goes a bit more into it in the STO playthru videos
In many respects, Enterprise was the best series.
There were TOS problems with continuity (like the Federation-Romulan war being sublight somehow) and ST:NG re-interpretations (like Klingons that no longer looked human) that Enterprise wove into the prequels with charming abandon. There were some misfires (like introducing the Borg and time-travel stories are generally just lazy writing) but even those kind of work in the series. And the community-building was more faithful to Roddenberry than human exceptionalism leading to matching the development of other races in a fraction of the time.
In Star Fleet Battles, I always enjoyed the Sublight game and we built our own rules for developing races and technologies that were faithful to the Star Trek Universe but uniquely our own. Enterprise was a nostalgic look at how the Federation developed with its armored plating instead of shields, development of now-canonical armaments and universal translator, and even acquisition of technologies like the holodeck.
It wasn't perfect but little touches like the "Reed Alert" were Easter eggs for the faithful.
I always loved ds9 trials and triblleations when worf answered chief o'Brian question why Kirk's era klingons had no forehead ridges, it's nothing we like to talk about lol
not a fan of what Enterprise did to cannon ..pretty much pissed on what was established before
How so?
😀😀
I feel like the Klingons would like the Samurai of Feudal Japan. The philosophy of bushido could be something they would have an affinity for.
The Klingon's lack of cohesion also actually helps them a LOT. No, they aren't declaring war on you, that raid was just a small group of pirates unaffiliated and unsanctioned by either the government nor any individual house. As much as it hurts their relations with everyone early on, it also helped the Klingons by preventing CONSTANT all out war which WOULD end in defeat of the Klingons by sheer numbers alone. Sure, they'd defeat the Vulcans. But next they'd have to fight the Tellerites. Then Humans. Then Andorians and Romulans, which would likely join together to stop this threat. Or which ever order you want, and on, until they just run out of fighting power and get overwhelmed. The other factions are NOT weak, and plausible deniability, whether real or not, was really one of their greatest reasons for not eventually just being overwhelmed as a faction.
Klingons are the federations greatest ally In the dominion war ever since they were at peace because of the shared interests thanks to worf who became the Starfleet Klingon ambassador and brought a lasting peace to the 2 warring factions
Since I have seen that talk between Archer and that (Martok) Lawyer, I actually regret that I've never been able to see an actual functioning Klingon society. Instead we got the "Warrior Villain".
The Human race is kind of a mix between Klingons, Vulcans and Andorians.
Oh god, they changed the Klingons in the game too? Can't they just leave it alone? There's nothing wrong with their design.
The only reason Klingons signed Kittimor Accords was that Parcus, the Moon which produced energy for home world was destroyed. The Klingons could afford waste valuable resources upon another major conflict with Federation. Even after they signed little micro wars still pop up occasionally.
Wow you're really treating that "fire first" crap from STD as canon.
this video knocked it out of the park
Much of the Archer content (drawn from Enterprise) is pre-Federation, since the show was set in 2151, & the Federation was famously founded in 2161. This' a point you should've made: that Klingon confusion/ambiguity concerning the early Federation stems from the United Earth exploratory branch having the same name as the later interspecies one. Earth's first contact with the Klingons is *humanity's* first contact! No Federation, yet.
Star Trek Klingons: Been watching Humanity in passing for centuries; in amusement, in passing, and in serious consideration.
Also Star Trek Klingons: Not understanding Humanity's behavior once they became a warp-capable society and met them in space... even after Klingon agents observed them on Earth, in secret, before they were a warp-capable society. Also, they were almost shocked by them becoming a warp-capable society.
So, their warrior cast is like our current ever-war people... making them culturally moronic on complex things.
Not speaking sarcastically but they make a lot more sense now.
The Augment plot was so rediculous just to explain 60's Klingon makeup which didn't need explaination. It was nicely winked at in DS9. Enterprise was alright rewatching it, but some things were eye rolling to appease comic book guy.
I vote All Romulans grow long handlebar mustaches they can twirl in sinister secrecy.
10:27 Its everything shameful to Klingons. Help them out its shameful, don't help shameful, save them from a place shameful, rescue a relative shameful, Stealing their blood vine- actually stealing someones blood vine is very shameful.
9:57
Why does that image look wrong? The ship is all disproportioned, one engine bigger than the other, one wing wider than the other, one pylon angled and the other squared, etc. I understand perspective ... but this looks more like a klingon ship seen in one of those twisty funhouse mirrors, as viewed through a fisheye lens.
Qapla', Rick!
Why would Archer have thought he had any influence at all with the Klingons? One lawyer, who was probably going to die in prison, liked him. That seemed to be the extent of his fanbase among the Klingon people.
"Today is a good day to die."
No, Pie. "It's a good day to eat pie." you have just misunderstood that line.
Thanks for taking only minimal input from STD, which should NOT be considered canon.
Enterprise isn’t really solid, especially because of the whole temporal thing and nothing fits in the prime timeline. They jammed stuff in to explain stuff randomly.
Find It very odd,
Star Trek the original TV show, it had Klingons as normal humans without ridges in their head
Then the original Star Trek films had Klingons with ridges on there head
I might have missed why original story Klingons changed
But in enterprise what is set in time before Star Trek original
Klingons had ridges on their head
I could be wrong, but is the Image of the Shenzhou at the Binary Stars appear upside-down?
In space there is no upside down.
It always amazes me how fans attempt to patch the flaws caused by bad script writing in the various shows and try to construct a logic behind the inconsequential or even illogical actions on screen. I would have given up frustrated already.
I've always found that line in Undiscovered Country funny. A high ranked government representative of the KLINGON EMPIRE, which oppresses every alien species they can, telling representatives of the Federation they're not egalitarian enough.
You know, every now and then hypocrisy needs to be called out - Klingons NEVER claimed to be egalitarian, as opposed to UFP. Garak and Quark settled the issue.
It's been proven best for the Starfleet Federation to keep The Klingons as Allies.
Every time I hear the canon reason for why the TOS Klingons were as they were, I shake my head and cringe a little. It hurts, yet it's amusing.