I was “homeschooled” when I was a kid because “liberals were indoctrinated me” When I got to public school a few years later , one of my teachers would spend every lunch period with me & go over basic elementary science, math & grammar skills & history skill’s because she was nervous I didn’t learn them I still talk to this teacher 18 years later! She basically saved me!
Of course every teacher is not like the one you had. However, the concern and dedication your teacher showed you are often simply character traits of people who decide to go into the education profession. And that is what it is, by the way, a regulated profession of educated adults who are legally obligated to follow minimum standards of instruction. They're also supposed to demonstrate ethical behavior in their treatment of children. I'm glad you had at least one good teacher in your life. That stuff can be life changing.
I’m an attorney and I was homeschooled and whenever I mention it to people that I meet they always say “oh well you turned out okay so your parents must have done a good job homeschooling you.” I turned out okay DESPITE the weak efforts of my mom to homeschool us. She would throw a textbook at us and tell us to fill it out and there are huge gaps in my schooling to this day. I’m anti-homeschooling and don’t understand why people are so shocked that a completely unregulated industry has so many loopholes in it. Thanks John Oliver for bringing attention to this!
There’s a reason that formal schooling outside of the home became the norm. Most parents, even the well-meaning ones, just don’t have the knowledge, dedication, or time to teach every subject through high school.
I know exactly what you mean. A bright, motivated kid will learn things on their own in spite of awful adults, but there will be serious gaps and blockages that much of society has no understanding of. I'm glad you beat the odds, but nobody should ever have to simply because their parents chose to fail their kids.
100% true. I’m a “bright kid” who loves reading but I don’t like math. I had zero study skills or paper writing experience. I had never taken a test that wasn’t open book. I was frequently frustrated by things I didn’t understand (and couldn’t figure out by reading a book). I HATE when someone says my parents were saints for homeschooling me or that must be why I’m so smart. I would keep my kids home and do online schooling if they asked me, but I would never create a curriculum. I’m not a teacher and I while I can learn along with my kids so I can help with homework, it isn’t fair to them to have me by their main teacher
@@DA-vw1huthank you for the inspiring comment! Im in community college and am scared when i transfer universities this will haunt me and they will not accept me no matter my grades. I had a similar homeschooling experience. Glad you made it.
@@orbeetles I did go to community college. Once I had my associates, I could have transferred. No one cares about transcripts after that. You can totally do it! And I bet you will thrive and absorb knowledge like a sponge. Have a great time
Just started the video, i was fundamental Christian homeschooled in Arizona in the 90s. ZERO oversight, ZERO regulations. Took GED at 16, been trying to catch up with education through UA-cam since then. Edit: everything he said was real. My "curriculum" was based on the "Proverbs 31 woman" . I did NOT get a good education, never knew I had ADHD, needed glasses, or understood ANYTHING about safe sex which *all* harmed me later in life.
I would also recommend Coursera and EdX, where you can get free access to post-secondary level course lectures and readings, though you would need to create an account. While both have a heavier focus on STEM and business, they have a bunch of stuff for humanities too. EdX also has a lot of AP course programs. For anyone reading this who hasn't heard of them, Coursera was founded by Stanford professors and you can get free access to stuff by "auditing" a course, and you would have unlimited access to the ungraded materials. It tends to have more videos but this varies a lot by instructor and subject. EdX was founded by MIT and you get free access for a certain time (several weeks) after beginning each course and, if there is a paid option, access will then be revoked unless you upgrade. It tends to have more readings and you can actually attempt assignments, which is especially helpful for subjects like programming and math. If there isn't a paid option (if the course is "archived") then you just have unlimited access here too. I've viewed everything from academic STEM stuff like Python, Bioinformatics, and Linear Algebra to professional stuff like EMT basics and Corporate Finance to fun stuff like courses on the bilingual brain or Norse mythology.
@@Gendo3s2k ADHD and needing glasses are often picked up on by teachers. It IS ultimately up to the parents to follow up on it, but teachers make recommendations along those lines frequently. Safe sex is also frequently taught in public schools. "Good education" is obviously a subjective term, but even some of the worst public school educations are probably better than none at all.
@@thatjillgirl teachers aren't doctors, and aren't any more knowledge about ADHD (or eyesight) than the average parent. If a teacher can pick up on it, the parent can as well. If a teacher can miss it, so can a parent.
@@deus_vult8111 Please tell us in your infinite wisdom how you know every single one of those families, often seeking asylum, deserve to be separated without any evaluation.
@@randomperson8571 I don’t. And I don’t have to. When I commit a crime and I happen to be with my son the police will detain and arrest me and separate me from my kid. Crossing illegally is a misdemeanor and not to be taken lightly.
@@deus_vult8111 Also--I can understand being anti-immigration. What I cannot comprehend is thinking, "Hell yeah, let's separate terrified small kids from their parents as they're trying to flee dangerous situations and call anyone who reasonably doesn't like this idea a woke liberal! Woohoo!"
I was abused and neglected by my parents my entire childhood. I can say with complete confidence that public school saved my life. My teachers weren't even aware of what was happening. Nobody called CPS. But just having somewhere to go spend my days where the focus was teaching me what I needed to know to become independent and free of the abuse someday, the empowerment and hope I found there every day, saved my life. Even just having somewhere to go where I didn't have to be on my guard every second was a life safer.
What about kids abused at school? I was bullied so bad it was torture. I WISHED my parents could have homeschooled me like they wanted. School was hell for me. Principal wouldn't do anything, and the counselor said my feelings of anxiety were normal and to get over it. It got so bad I started skipping classes and entire days sometimes. Then the counselor went around to all my classes and told the teachers not to accept any makeup work from me, although only 2 listened. I had As and Bs in all but those 2, including A+ in AP Bio. Then the admin were like, well clearly you don't want to be here and then kicked me out (school is only required to age 16 here) and said they'd call the police if I showed back up. My parents tried to intervene through out, including when my books were stolen and vandalized with messages like " kill yourself fat cunt" (even though I wasn't fat, those trolls thought I had anorexia, and they'd try to make it worse). The principal just played it off like it was nothing.
@@cyborgraptor1778 of course. Thats always the argument isn't it? I was abused plenty at school too, as it happens. I'm going to set aside for a moment the implication that there's some sort of dichotomy here where the only way to protect kids who are abused at school is to leave then in the unsupervised, unchecked, uninhibited care of their parents. Thats beyond absurd, but it's also beyond the point. A kid who is abused at school has recourse. Sure, the system fails. There are schools where you have jaded counselors or no counselors, where admin doesn't care or can't be bothered or is overwhelmed. I get it. I used to teach. But a school has regulations it is bound by. If a counselor won't help, there's someone else you can go to. If admin won't do anything there are steps you can take. Other people you can appeal to, other authority you can bring to bear. All too often people don't, but there are avenues. A child that is abused at home most often doesn't even know they're being abused. Their only way to get help is to have time away from the home where someone they trust can see what they don't, recognize it for what it is, and report it to the appropriate authorities. Even just talk to other kids and find out that their mommies don't say the same sorts of things to them that yours says to you. That their parents don't pick out what they're wearing to school today by criteria like what will cover all the bruises. I taught for 3 years. And walked away because the current system is appalling in many ways. But one of the few things the system does well is protect children from abuse. I also went to college in Utah, and met a number of women who ran away from fundamentalist circles. Their girls don't go to public school. They don't watch TV. They don't talk to anyone outside the cult. That's because it's a lot harder to marry a 14 year old off to whoever the prophet gave them to when they go to school and talk to other people. Its a lot harder to get them to cooperate when they know they have rights and there are other ways to live that don't involve being raped by someone old enough to be your grandfather whenever the mood strikes him. We can protect all the kids. And we should. And the first and by far the most important step in that is recognizing that children are people too, and they have rights of their own, that should be protected. Even from their parents. Especially from their parents. 9 out of 10 times, its mommy and daddy abusing the child. Parents have far too much control over education right now and it's literally killing the kids. It sucks that you had a hard time at school. I get it. I had someone spit an entire mouthfull of water in my face once right outside my classroom with complete impunity. But at school there are ways to reach out for help that simply don't exist at home.
I was severely bullied in school and was probably one more semester away from un-aliving myself. My mother's offer to homeschool me so that I could complete my education without being tortured daily was a blessing. We were incredibly surprised by the lack of regulation and reporting that we had to do. We made sure that we met all of the public high school standards regardless of the fact that we weren't expected to. Sadly not all homeschool families do. I am absolutely an advocate for homeschooling being a legal and available option, but there Really needs to be better oversight.
You're and John's take was much more nuanced than what I was expecting. I was just expecting the horror stories. I appreciate you sharing. And. Making me see things in a different way. It's a more complex convo thanI realized. And yeah. That bullying is traumatic as hell. I hope you're doing okay now!
And as a trans kid in Catholic school, who both bullied to stay in the closet/ was bullied? My parents wondered if us going through the system was the best idea. It's. Just. It was hard for me to give up the few friends I DID have. So I stayed. Even if it wasn't good for me. But I was in the closet. And had some other ways to be safe. It sounds like your bullies were waaaay worse
@@stoodmuffinpersonal3144 sadly there are plenty of horror stories because of the lack of regulation and standards. I have one friend my own age who was homeschooled by her mother but unfortunately had to do a lot of independent catch up when she came of age (academically and socially speaking). However there are definitely many good reasons why some families may choose that path and that it may be a better option for their children. I currently have a friend who is homeschooling her kids. Her middle child, like me, was bullied because he's "different" (and I don't mean that there's anything wrong with him I just mean that he definitely marches to the beat of his own drum), her older son is severely autistic. This was a tough choice for their family to make because it means that she is unable to work full time and it hurts them financially. However she noticed that both of her sons actually blossomed and showed vast improvement to their emotional health during the pandemic when they did not have to go to public school anymore. It made her decide that it was worth the sacrifice to stay home and teach them so that they did not have to go back to an environment that did not fit their needs (The children were given a choice in the matter). She too absolutely was surprised by the lack of regulation. On one hand she's glad it's easy (on a paperwork level), But on the other she acknowledges that this could way too easily be taken advantage of. I have noticed that most of the people who object strenuously to increasing regulation and standards for homeschooling are the ones who are probably in the most need of oversight.
@@stoodmuffinpersonal3144 also I am doing better these days. I too blossomed once I was removed from that environment. My mom said it was like meeting me all over again as she watched me grow from being afraid of my own shadow. I'm glad that the topic is getting a lot more attention these days because it really needs that attention. When I was a kid everyone told me to "just ignore it or they're jealous of you". Trust me if they don't let you ignore it. I'm sorry for what you went through as well. I do understand how it was difficult to give up on the few friends you did have and it's not a choice that suits everybody. I hope you are okay as well.
@sadwhitewolf I'm so glad to hear you had a good experience! I did not, and that's why I volunteer with the Coalition for Responsible Home Education--it's run by homeschool alumni and exists to advocate for homeschooled kids and change the laws to create better oversight. Always looking for homeschool alumni that support protections and oversight--the Voices for Reform project provides that opportunity. We don't advocate for homeschooling to be banned, we advocate for reasonable and appropriate protections.
I'm glad that child abuse was such a massive portion of this story. I am a survivor of child abuse and when I was in highschool, my mother told me that having friends & socialization were distracting me from my "roles and responsibilities" as the eldest daughter. She found out through eavesdropping on my private phonecalls that my friends were making me aware of which behaviors of theirs were abusive & teaching me to stand up for myself. If i had lived in a state that did not require background checks and such to pull a child out of school, i would not have any way of communicating with the people who helped me flee to safety at 18. Homeschooling laws literally protected me from becoming a prisoner in my own home. It gave me the power to leave and access life- saving community and resources.
All homeschooled children should be required to complete and send in standardized tests every couple years. and if they get too far behind, the parents should lose homeschool privileges. and all homeschool families children should be required to have regular visits with health clinics to ensure they are healthy and not abused.
Growing up my sisters and I realized we would do better with self motivated learning. However our mom was so abusive that school was literally the only safe place we had. And even then she could show up at any moment. My senior year she made me go to work with her and I almost didn't graduate cause she made me miss 2 finals.
I don't know your story but responsibility is important and I just hope you are not being dupped. Life is not always black and white and parents should be helpful in preparing you for life's drama.
I was a college professor. The students who went to college after homeschooling were all over the map. Some had parents who followed the state curriculum using the state-adopted textbooks, which the schools provided for free. These students could not be distinguished from the other students. But most homeschooled parents didn't do this, so there was a lot of "mislearning," where students had simply learned the wrong way to do things or nonsense "facts." I also had a student complain that her sister took her kids out of school and called it homeschooling but she didn't do it; the kids just did what they wanted to all day. She thought that there would be a state office responsible for putting the kids back in school (the children wanted to go back to school, especially the teenager who was aware of how far behind she was getting). There wasn't. Educational neglect is also child neglect. A lot of state effort is focused on public schools for curriculum, textbooks, teacher quality, etc. Teachers are evaluated constantly and undergo many hours of professional development each year to maintain their licenses. Children are tested each year, and even though there are problems with so much testing, at least the public is informed on how well the schools are doing. Experts are brought in to provide services for children with disabilities; my son, who is hearing impaired, had speech pathologists who worked with him intensively and successfully for years. My niece was sexually abused by her stepfather when she was six--it was teachers who noticed and called in CPS. None of that would happen in homeschooling. The idea that homeschooling parents can do anything they want without supervision and regulation is horrendous. The fact they don't need to have an education themselves or can just skip over things like math because they don't know it is also horrendous. Or that they can purchase curricula that teach nonsense like dinosaurs and people co-existing is terrible. And it's the children who are cheated because they may be totally unprepared for adult life.
I'm german. Here homeschooling is just outright banned. And we take this ban VERY serious. So serious that parents can lose custody of their child if they don't send their child to school. Though it seldom comes to this, usually even the most batshit insane parents that were unreceptive to more gentle persuasion fold when this card is finally played.
With all due respect, you never saw high school students who were killed in high school in your college classes and that happens in public (and private) schools. I don't blame parents for wanting to keep their kids safe in the only developed nation in the world where it's expected that children will experience violence in school
@@nakedpnkmoleratYes, those exist. However, that is a flaw of the public school system not a feature. A flaw that needs to be fixed. There is a myriad of possible ways to fix something like this. The political problem with pretty much all of them is that they will cost money. And some will probably cost quite a lot of money. And if there is anything that the political elite in the USA hates above else than it's investing money in the education system.
I sobbed while watching this. As a former homeschooled child, thank you John Oliver for sharing our story to the world. When I was young, I wish I knew there was a place for me to report child abuse from my parents, but obviously my parents never told me they existed. This is an ongoing issue not just in America, but across the globe. We need common sense regulations that protect homeschooled children from neglect and abuse.
I'm the lobbyist at the organization mentioned in the segment that's fighting for common-sense reform-- Coalition for Responsible Home Education. We're founded and run by homeschool alumni, and we always center the voices of other alum. If you'd like to get involved in fighting for better laws, check us out! I'd love to have you on the team.
Homeschooling wasn’t a thing when I was growing up. From my perspective, it was older people talking about homeschooling their kids. Now we get to hear from the kids. Thank you for sharing your story.
We need common sense regulations to protect all kids. I had surgeries in my 50s to fix damage done to me by my mom when I was a teenager - and I went to public school. When the school personnel noticed I was becoming more and more depressed they helped get me into a private school, then they went to drugging me, which made things worse. None of it helped because the cause was never addressed. The one thing no one did was look at my mom because she was the local accountant and highly respected.
It's made worse if kids have to have a car to socialize with others away from home, or have to depend on their parents to schedule to drive them anywhere.
As a child who was homeschooled by an abusive parent, this story hits home. Thank you, John Oliver and everyone at Last Week Tonight. This country would be a lot better if we could all accept that children are people, not parental property, and they deserve rights, too.
I was homeschooled from age 5 until 18. Went to one of the more prestigious universities in the USA through PhD. I got a great job out of school and am happily married. As John Oliver said, there is a very high ceiling, but he’s right that there also is no bottom. The lack of regulation did allow my parents to tailor a schedule allowing me to exceed expectations both in academics and extracurriculars, but on the other side, there’s others who are completely neglected.
As a fellow homeschooled kid, I think this is definitely the right idea. I really don't get the impulse to make it totally unregulated even if too much red tape is a possibility that should be avoided.
This was my experience as well. I became disabled my first year of college and never completed due to cost and accessibility, but I have a very solid k-12 education thanks to determined parents.
This is the kind of thing we’re aiming for with our family. We’re able to accelerate in places, and take extra time in others. Public school doesn’t accommodate that at all. But HSLDA isn’t about that, it’s about destroying the entire public school system and pushing evangelical Christian nationalism.
There's no bottom in public school either. They pass students who can't read, ignore students who are getting hurt, and let kids fail until they age out at 18. That's how it's been for years here in Tennessee.
@cs5384 this. My wife is a teacher and after teaching in shitty public schools where they are "strongly encouraged" to pass functionally illiterate 7th graders she wants to homeschool.
What's so frustrating about any conversation about "parents' rights" is that it almost universally ignores that children are people and they have (or should have) rights too. Children have a right to an adequate and appropriate education, and their parents should not have the right to deprive them of that.
Who should have dominion over the child. The government? Or their parent? Be careful how you answer, you may find yourself on the same side as the German mustache man.
@@nicoleterry5105 I was abused by parents who literally called me a slave and told me they owned me and could do whatever they wanted to me (and treated me like that too), so I have strong opinions on this. Number one, it shouldn't be about dominion regardless. Nobody should have dominion over another human being. It's called care. Number two, the parent's RESPONSIBILITY, not right, is to care for their child. Number three, if the parent fails in that responsibility, it's the government's role to step in. In an ideal world, that's how it should work. But this isn't an ideal world. At the very least, at least people are talking about it, that's something.
In Canada there is no such thing as parental rights in the law but we do specifically have children's rights with recognition of their vulnerability and everyone's responsibility to their welfare.
Former homeschool kid here. My mother was SEVERELY mentally ill - she was hospitalized several times, made multiple suicide attempts (a few in front of me) and a handful of (undocumented) murder attempts while in the throes of hallucinations, and she was able to homeschool us. The homeschool group leader knew about her mental health issues and did not or could not forbid it. Absolutely insane. We were poorly educated and poorly socialized and had no idea our situation was not normal.
Wow mlau, really sorry to hear that...I hope you've been able to adjust some...to heal at least a little, but that's likely going to follow you for life, huh? Developing in childhood is so important to adulthoot...as if life isn't hard enough, not being given a fair chance from the get-go is such a travesty. I sure hope you have had relationship enough with your siblings to be able to support each other. My heart goes out to you...I hope you've found peace and love in your life.
Wow, thanks folks. Honestly my situation could have been worse. My mother was mostly just neglectful and inconsistent and very occasionally frightening. Day to day she was mostly depressed and unresponsive with occasional fits of mania that led to field trips and periods of socializing. She never beat us and had good intentions, she was just too mentally ill and religiously brainwashed to be a good teacher or mom. Especially to already traumatized kids.
We're all doing pretty well now. I became the first person in my family to get a master's degree and I have a loving husband. I've been in therapy for years now and gave up religion and have way less fear and shame in my life. My mom is still mentally ill and causes chaos in our lives regularly but she's also manipulative and charismatic when not depressed or delusional so she keeps avoiding conservatorship. Mental health care for the truly ill in this country is dysfunctional and causes no end of harm and trauma to those caught in the cycle.
I was homeschooled by an abusive family in a completely unregulated state. Spent all of my teenage years in isolation, unable to escape. I became suicidal and repeatedly begged my parents to let me get psychiatric help, but they told me I just needed to pray to get better. The only thing that saved my life was running away once I was over the age of majority. Hearing about the HSLDA literally gave me flashbacks to that time. I'm remembering now how when Raylee's Law was being proposed, I read about it in the HSLDA member magazine being this huge violation of freedom. I never even knew what it was actually for until today.
I´m sorry if my questions are inappropriate, and you should feel completely free to not answer any of them, but I am really interested in learning more about your situation. The notion of them telling you that you just needed to pray to get better. What do you think was going on in their mind? What were they thinking? Do you think they genuinely thought it would work, or do you think it was just manipulation? Or something else entirely? Again, don´t answer if you don´t want to.
I have so much love and compassion for you, and I wish I could hug you. I was there with you, miles apart, crying with you in isolation. I hope one day to fully heal, and I hope that you can too.
13 public high schools not 1 proficient math student. Billions in their budget, largest ever. Now what. Oh yeah, school shootings. We will fix a lot of societal problems by understanding the proper role of government. ua-cam.com/video/t_MuU6Ryogg/v-deo.htmlsi=B1zebP21ABU7Xg2Y
The thing is a lot of people have children for themselves and not for the child, or even by accident. And then the very type of people who would be a good responsible parent both emotionally and financially are choosing to have less kids. It's honestly concerning and we might need to start considering some sort of government financial incentive to promote having stable children like many other countries japan/argentina/germany etc. The current cost of living/housing makes it much less attractive for younger people to have children, and the financial pressure has been really bad for dating and relationships in general for both men and women. It's becoming more and more like a business
@@QMS9224 America's economy much prefers low-educated worker-bee types that can be used up and replaced like parts in a machine. None of its on accident.
I was homeschooled in Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri and Alabama. I had to teach myself everything, starting at age 11. The highest level math work book I was ever given was division, and my parents didn't actually make me use it (I didn't even know textbooks or teachers guides were a thing until I was an adult). My parents were somehow under the impression that if you have good literature in the environment that will teach your kids everything they need to know by osmosis or something. I had to teach myself enough math and science to barely pass the GED so I could go to community college. I won't speak to minority families that choose it as that's not the background I'm from, but homeschooling NEEDS to be regulated. Otherwise it's ripe for educational neglect and child labor (yes, child labor).
I barely passed the GED after 5 years of high school.... I had all the wrong credits so I couldn't graduate. I learned everything so late in life because of un-schooling. It was isolating and hard. And it's because I'm bad at taking tests/and posting online lol... Not actually stupid. Bad under pressure because of being a first grade drop out. My teacher told me to quit if I didn't like school. So I did. Kinda young to be deciding that in first grade.
I was homeschooled k-12. I grew up in religious extremism. For school we had classical music time, handwriting, bible, math and chores, with most time spent on chores. I was so lucky that i also had access to the internet. Crash course and online education gave me a way out. I’m now working on my PhD in molecular biology. It hurts that my mom takes credit for my success after all i had to do on my own as a child to survive the abuse and neglect my siblings and I went through.
@@bonniebrush94 thank you! I’m in my mid 20s now and I’m still stumbling into situations common for others but completely new to me. Stamina is such a good word for it!
I don't know you, but I'm so happy for you that you were able to educate yourself and continue on to college. You should be very proud of yourself. I hope your siblings are doing well in life too, despite their upbringing.
As someone who was put through exactly this, thank you for covering this. Seriously, it means the world to me. My father is a preacher, and my parents were abusive. They hid behind the wall of homeschooling to avoid any consequences.
I’m so sorry for what you went through. It’s even another layer of disgusting because preachers/pastors are required to be mandated reporters. You deserved better. ❤
That's horrible. Just know that family trees don't need to be organic, the branches you graft are valid. If your family is awful, cut those branches from the tree and graft some new friends in their place. Nobody should be putting up with abuse, regardless of the source.
I was pulled out of school after the 4th grade by my abusive mother. She kept me in isolation for nearly 7 years, and did not homeschool me. Had this been noticed, it would have saved me from the trauma I endured. It stunted not only my educational growth, but my social growth. I thank god for the internet because that’s how I managed to escape at 16. But not every kid figures out a way to get help when they aren’t in public school.
This is the story of my younger half sister. She didn't get to leave the house for 9 years. I wish y'all could talk because it's one thing I know I'll never understand how truly awful it was since I lived with my dad.
@@anna-fleurfarnsworth104 i'm doing good actually! graduated high school a couple years later, and i am currently a student at one of the top 5 universities in the world. happy endings exist, thankfully!
I adopted 3 kids from foster care, the oldest was 8 and almost done with grade 3. He started grade 4, it was a weekend and I found a math sheet website and printed off and gave it to him, he couldn’t do it, I worked backwards and ended up at the kindergarten level. I knew that while they were in care he would be removed from school due to behaviour. The next day when I picked him up from school, I told the teacher I was pulling him out of school. I have never seen such a look of relief in my life. 2 hours a day, we did Korean math, hooked on phonics, got some science books from kindergarten to grade 5. I put him back into school for grade 5. His behaviour improved as he could finally participate in the class. He told me when he was in grade 10, that the stuff I taught him took through grade 10. I did so he didn’t think he was dumb, as he wasn’t, he was just a victim of the foster system.
That's how homeschooling is suppose to be. Unfortunately, I see the religious aspect being the major factor in why people are homeschooled, and having lots of free labor around the house by having an absurd amount of children.
My younger brother struggled with severe depression and social anxiety. Being in school took it out of him every day and it got so bad that one night he came to our mom asking to be taken to the hospital for a psych hold. Shortly after he and my mom agreed to take him out of school and to put him into an online program. Because of this, he managed to complete his education and get a GED, got to go to a music school in the evenings to hone his music talents (guitar, bass, keyboard, drums, singing, & more) and has performed at tons of local gigs since. Homeschooling isn't for everyone but when it works, it WORKS.
I'm glad he's doing so well! Homeschooling is wonderful for kids who have difficulty fitting in, and who have supportive parents and good academic resources.
online school done in the home is not homeschooling. what kind of logic is that? your read her whole comment and that is the first felling you got. I hope you have just a wonderful day.@@allisonfisher8063
Former homeschooled evangelical kid from Oklahoma here: thank you for this. I ended up relatively unscathed but I witnessed a huge variety of questionable treatment of fellow homeschooled kids over the years. And the political leanings of some of those families was frightening to say the least. Kids are being traumatized, brainwashed and neglected and are essentially invisible to anyone who can help them. It’s the easiest way to raise a generation of obedient voters, so the HSLDA knows what its doing.
It’s kind of the most blatant form of ‘no oversight’ that we have in America, which is absolutely disgusting when you remember that we’re talking about CHILDREN.
unsurprisingly those that have decried child indoctrination the loudest are actually protecting their brand of indoctrination. It's free thinking that they oppose the most.
And you don't hear the irony when you say that it creates a new generation of obedient voters? Precisely what do you think the public school system is designed to do? And that's to say nothing of shows like this.
@@marklesniak8038 what the hell are you talking about ...public schools do NOT teach kids to be obedient voters...lol for who....wow have a feeling you were homeschool by God go to your local library and educate yourself
My parents abused the hell out of me, and going to public school was the only reason I didn't take my own life - I had friends to give me hope each and every day, despite the horrors I knew I was going home to... if I had been 'homeschooled'? I wouldn't be here today. All during Covid I couldn't stop feeling sick, thinking about if I had been a kid during that time, and had been stuck with my narcissist stepmother during that time...and I was so ill thinking about all of the poor kids being abused at home, with no escape, but this information in this video...is... scary. Horrifying.
If you had been homeschooled you also would have had time for many extracurricular activities outside the home don't pretend homeschooling has anything to do with your crappy parents
As someone who was homeschooled and loved it, I am a big supporter of there being regulations on homeschooling. Why? Because I actually knew a family that used homeschooling as a cover for abuse, and I knew another family that taught their daughters that they should only be wives and mothers and taught them accordingly, and even in my relatively robust homeschool education, I was still taught young earth creationism because my evangelical mother literally didn't know better and was getting text book recommendations from other homeschool families she trusted, and I'd probably still believe in it today had I not ended up becoming wildly curious about science down the road. Wanting there to be regulations kind of makes the community I grew up with view me as something of a traitor, but if I was seeing so many problems in my very limited circle, I can only imagine what kind of problems there are all over the country. (Or, of course, watch this video.)
Sorry but getting indoctrinated with young earth creationism by an "evangelical mother who literally didn't know better" is imho far from a "relatively robust education". For me as a European this sounds totally crazy! 😳😱 But good for you that you educated yourself! 👍
I was also homeschooled and loved it, I was lucky though because my dad was a nuclear physicist and my mom was all about living off the land, so I got all the good science and cooking.
I completely agree. I spent my last two years of middle school being homeschooled, and that was wonderful because I was self-motivated and the curriculum we used was rigorous. Others in our co-op, though, not so much. Pretty much every other student I met was there because of religious reasons. Furthermore, one time at our weekly meeting, we had a horticulture class that took us outside to look at the landscaping, and one parent said that was all the science her kids needed that week. I am highly in favor of homeschooled kids needing to pass some basic requirements to continue. John Oliver said it well, it has a high ceiling but a non-existent floor.
I was one of these homeschool kids. I never learned anything. My school schedule, when I had one, was reading the bible or doing a chapter of one of those Christian textbooks. Most of them, decades out of date because my mom bought them second-hand. When I complained about this, she signed me up for an online school. She never checked in on me, made a schedule, or even helped me with my work. She only scolded me when it didn't get done. I regret not studying harder. But I was only 12 when it all started, so I didn't know much better. By the time high school came around, I was so lonely I became severely depressed. I had no sports, no extracurricular activities, and no friends. My family had moved away from our extended family so I couldn't even get any companionship from my grandparents. I had no siblings at the time either. It was me, my mom, and my dad. I cannot begin to describe how lonely and how scarring it is to spend 6 years all alone, with nothing but historically inaccurate textbooks to keep you company. Especially since my mom actually stopped bothering to buy new ones. I was still using the same curriculum from when I was 12. Recently, I studied extremely hard on Khan Academy. Starting from their 7th grade curriculum and onwards, I brought myself up to speed and took the ASVAB. I got a 94/99. My parents take credit for my score, saying that I get my intelligence from my dad. They did nothing. I did everything. I'm a survivor of this bullshit. I pushed through and studied on my own, but no one should have to go through what I did. We need to fix the regulation of homeschooling. It's the perfect abuse tactic. Fuck parents rights. A child's right to a proper education is so much more important.
Your experience sounds eerily similar to my own, in every area, even the part about working your ass off to get good grades later on and parents taking credit for your hard work. Either way, good job on rising above the setback you went through, I know it's not easy at all. I look at what I went through as something to NOT put my future children through.
When I was about eight years old, my cousin came to live with us because she was pregnant at age 16 and her mother had various health issues that prevented her from being able to care for her properly at that time. She had been home schooled for a few years, at that point, and I don't think anyone in my family had been aware of just how neglected she was. Her mom wasn't a bad person, just struggling with health issues that made it hard for her to have any routine in their daily lives, much less home schooling. She'd actually taken her out of school because they lived pretty far out in the country and actually getting her to and from school was not something she could handle. Many of our relatives protested taking her out of school, knowing her mom was struggling, but she was absolutely certain the program she'd signed up for would work for them. My mom happened to be taking a few years off after leaving the military at that time and took on her care and education in a serious way. My cousin could read at my reading level and actually borrowed a lot of books from me when my mom told her she had to read for x amount of time a day. I remember my mom going through the absolute fortune of home schooling books she bought and quizzing my cousin on things so she got an idea of where her knowledge level was and there were several that I knew the answers to and she did not, so she was about 8 years behind in some things. It took a ridiculous amount of effort on my mom's part to get my cousin up to speed, but they actually did manage to get her to a point where she could attend a program for kids like her who were very behind and get them into summer school and evening classes so they could graduate on time. And she did. She graduated on time and was very happy about it. My mom then went to work for our school district and all of the times she had to report potential abuse or help a student with basic things like having a toothbrush and toothpaste to brush their teeth was pretty shocking. When we went school supply shopping, my mom would also stock up on basic hygiene supplies and clothes to give to kids who were obviously struggling with basic needs and things like having clean clothes that fit properly and weren't falling apart. She, like many teachers and other school staff, bought these things with her own money and gave them out without question or judgement so that the kids who were struggling would know they could ask for help. Knowing how easily my cousin slipped through the cracks and how many kids do end up needing that type of help is honestly pretty terrifying, when I think about it.
He had variations of the joke, multiple times a season, for like 5 years. At some point either the show was going to be cancelled before Kissinger died, or the timing was going to work out.
Even though I was bullied in school, school was my safe haven from home. None of my teachers acknowledged the signs or reported. I have been a kindergarten teacher for four years now. One reason is because I want to be the person I desperately needed when I was little. I am my students' safe haven and they will feel loved, capable, valued and respected in our class. I teach them that it is unacceptable for anyone to hurt them. In the past, one of my students told me they missed school because, "mom hit me with a spatula and she didn't want you to see my face until it gets better." Parents, your kids open up to people they trust. Respect your babies. Do the work to break the cycle of abuse. I have been physically abused by students every school year. I have/had students who threatened my life. It is traumatic for me. I have lifelong injuries now. The nerve damage in my back has changed my quality of life. I show up for all kids. I was injured protecting the kids. Stop hurting your babies because you are hurting.
Thank you. As another person who relied on school to feel safe, my teachers were my role models and helped me through hell. Your kids are too little to tell you but you are making an impact.
@@FakingANerve. I use to work with preschoolers (3 to 4) most were sweet and had fun! But every year we had two to three kids who kicked, slapped and spit on us and their fellow friends, usually they had emotional issues like being foster kids or alcohol fetus syndrome
@@Szahra87 While I appreciate your input, I still don't see how Pre-K or kindergarten students can incur lifelong spinal injuries, or can imagine them issuing viable threats to a teacher's life.
I was in a terribly abusive home where I was locked in my room for weeks at a time. The ONLY thing that saved me was the fact that I had to go to school. It was my only opportunity to interact with others and to get away from the horror that was my home life. I know people who have had wonderful experiences with homeschooling, and I support it - with supervision. But the safety element of having other people involved in a child’s life should be maintained.
PS don't provide that. A mother(5 kids) allowed her BF to beat her kids. The oldest girl ran away, the youngest girl lived with her father's mother, he beat one of the boys to death, and the mom and BF left them there and moved to another place. Neighbors would see the boys both under 13 and give them food but they would only eat pizza candy and packaged food because they thought they would be poisoned. When the cop found them the boy that was killed was a skeleton it had been a year. All those kids should have been in school why were there no reports by PS. Many cases the school are also abusing kids. What is needed is community people looking out for others that's what will stop abuse not PS
Homeschooling can be an inventive, creative choice for many parents. However, it can also be a vehicle for subterfuge for parents with more nefarious motives, such as hiding child abuse in the home. I'm truly sorry that you experienced such trauma at an early age, and I'm glad the public school system gave you at least some relief from your abusive home situation.
My homeschooling experience was a nightmare. I had to relearn everything as an adult because the curriculum was so religiously eschewed. Between that and the audacity my parents had to believe they could teach 5 kids an education they didn’t even finish themselves…and well I’m sure you can imagine how that went.
I knew a woman who homeschooled her children, and they seem to bee success stories; but the lady was kinda'odd when she heard of others' abilities or performances beecause HER CHILDREN couldn't do that at that age. I mean, in a class of 2, your kids are always going to bee the top of the class; but that doesn't mean they'd still bee top in a class of 400 students.
*skewed skew (pronounced skyoo) - to bias, distort, tilt in a certain direction Whereas eschew (eh-shoo) means to avoid or side-step something. Thx for sharing. Crazy.
In my country, it's mandatory for children to go to schools and I doubt that homeschooling even exists other than in case of serious medical conditions that would deny the child the ability to attend school. Personally, homeschooling doesn't make sense from educational perspective, even if you fully devote to educate your child according to the regular school programs. Even if you use the mandated books, a parent isn't a substitute for a teacher especially when teachers specialise with their education for the purpose of teaching a single subject to students. I doubt that even a well educated parent can substitute every subject teacher other than maybe for the early part of primary school. Schools exist for a reason, if anyone could teach everything, people wouldn't study to be teachers. Homeschooling should only exist in case a student isn't able to attend school or attendance does more harm than good as with extreme cases of bullying. Not for you to think you could teach your child whatever you want and basically educationally maim him/her in the future.
I used to teach martial arts to schools. We had a large hall and each day a different school would bus their kids in. Thursday were the homeschool kids. They were completely bereft of certain skills. None of them had any idea what "form a line" meant. Even if you physically placed them in a spot in line, the second you let go of them, they would simply follow you. Each of them thought that everything the teachers said was a personal conversation with them. Imagine 20 kids all just telling you whatever popped into their heads at any moment while you are trying to instruct all of them.
They aren't trained monkeys. That's actually awesome. Too bad you are such a horrible teacher that you judge children so harshly for being there to LEARN. WTH.
That makes me feel really sorry for those kids and everybody who happens to be their boss or co-worker later in life. They miss out on so much socialization skills when they're brought up without regular contact to other people than their parents. Sounds like they will struggle in every social situation that requires coordination among a group. Reading the room, the group dynamics and reacting accordingly so important, not just to fit in, but also to stand out for the right reasons, being a leader and a compassionate friend etc.
As someone who was homeschooled from 3rd to 9th grade, homeschooling can be a really complex issue. On one hand, me and my siblings were pulled out of school due to the schools mistreatment of my disabled sister, and with my mom being a former teacher, we were able to get a better education than we would have if we were still in public school in our area. I was able to skip a grade, which I am very grateful for. However, it might have been the worst few years of my life. I was isolated from anyone other than my family, and with no 3rd party adults like teachers who are mandatory reporters of child abuse, I suffered physical abuse for years that would have otherwise been reported. I believe that homeschooling can be a great thing, but it is imperative that there are more regulations and check ups with homeschooling families, as it is scarily easy for abused or neglected kids to fall through the cracks as things are now.
I went to public school. My parents abused me mentally, emotionally, and physically basically daily. They're a well established middle class couple who made sure they were involved heavily in my schools and activities. Because of that, they were able to destroy any credibility I had with those educators. Every time I'd tell teachers or coaches, (because I got grounded for weeks on any grade lower that a b, I had to be involved in multiple sports, band, singing lessons, and student council so there were a lot of people that could have helped) no one would help me because they never took me seriously because my parents had already prepped them by telling lies about me. My mom would scream at me until she pissed my dad off enough he would come and choke me out and beat my ass until he felt guilty and told me to call the cops, which seemed like a dare I wasn't ever brave enough to take. I am now a very pissed off angry 35 year old woman who isn't afraid of men three times her size because I've been fighting them since I was 8. And as a mother myself now, as long as my kids are trying their best and getting their work in, I could care less about their grades. I hope to end all of the abuse cycles with me.
I also was severely abused, and I was afraid to have kids because of the crap I had heard about abused people being more likely to abuse others. I've raised two amazing young men who are caring, compassionate, and honorable. I just did the opposite of what had been modeled to me at every opportunity, and I treated them how I wished I'd been treated. You're doing great, and your kids will be fine. Virtual hugs your way. @@kassassin_brahgawk
We home schooled our kids but made sure they were well socialized (4h among many other things). In Maryland, if you don't register under a homeschooling "umbrella organization" which provides a curriculum and "oversight", you had to meet with someone from the county public school system once or twice per year. You had to bring in samples of schoolwork and some texts representing what you were teaching. Note that that list doesn't include bringing the actual children. Public school funding is always tight, so as little effort as possible was put into monitoring home schooling. One lady would rush to meet the county requirements. She met with a few dozen households and told us that we were the only ones that actually brought the kids to meet her. A lot of the others apparently were religious families that didn't want any external exposure corrupting their kids. Simply requiring all home schooled kids to meet with a county worker twice per year for a hour would catch at least some of those mistreating their kids. I'm so sorry for what you had to go through. :(
@@_ee75 1) making it illigal would do just that. 2) moral arguemnts dont matter to the dipsh*ts ruling our countrys. 3) First step before anything else is to take the power to investigate and "punish" the wrongdoing of government members/politicians AWAY FROM THE GOVERNMENT! Because as long as they hold the power to police themselfs... guess what? NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.
@@_ee75 There is some lobbying that is good. As an example, in Oregon, a high school girl became friends with a holocaust survivor, and through that friendship, they lobbied to change Oregon law to require studying the holocaust, whereas previously it was not required. There was no big corporations or lavish spending here. But, it still was lobbying.
@@_ee75on paper it's at worst morally neutral. Lobbying is just advocating your local government for a specific issue Unfortunately, in practice it's just become legalized bribery
The pause between "Wonderful" and "Nazi" was so perfectly timed. She KNEW what she was saying, KNEW what people would think, had to FULL PAUSE TO SAY IT, and still went ahead with it. In a movie or stand-up it would be a comedic pause, followed by a perfect subversion of expectations. Tragedy and comedy truly are two sides of the same coin.
Well put! Comedy is almost always at the expense of someone or something. There is, of course, a difference between being light-hearted about it, or being downright mean to someone. But I have no issues being mean to a nazi. Especially when she's indoctrinating her own kids.
I was homeschooled from kindergarten-12th and thankfully my mom was dedicated to me learning the same, if not more than kids in public schools. I had standardized tests and all my siblings and I got 28 or higher on the ACT. She made sure we all went to college and I’m very thankful. Home schooling can be a great way to teach your child, if you actually try and use good curriculum. That being said, I know a lot of my friends from homeschooled groups did not have the same teaching. Some were years behind in math, and others just worked and faked their grades. I’m pro homeschooling, but there are definitely problems with it.
I knew one couple who moved into my area from another stat that had their kids homeschooled because they were two years ahead of their cohorts. They obtained a curriculum from their school district and had the state assess their children regularly. That is homeschooling done right, which is rare.
I was home schooled through this neat home school co-op group. They had a curriculum, meet-ups, we did field trips, and were actually little schools. This program was overseen by the department of education, and it was great. You got the social/educational benefit of public school, with all the benefits of homeschool.
Homeschooling coops are very different from individual parents, and they also have a wide range. Some are fanrastic, and some are cult-ish to say the least.
@@rolandwoltman7835 There is a difference between required oversight / registration for all homeschooled kids in a state, as compared to voluntary / opt-in programs.
@@rolandwoltman7835 Lying? It's not lying that they have no or little oversight. It's simple facts you can easily look up. That some people do a better job of homeschooling does not mean they are doing so because good oversight exists that makes them do that. They're doing it because they want to go above and beyond for their kids.
I was "homeschooled" in high school. My parents basically gave me textbooks and expected me not only to teach myself but to grade myself. I spent four years doing effectively nothing but reading for fun and writing anime fanfic, and lying about what I was doing.
Hey mood. I was homeschooled 4th-7th grade. I knew where they kept the answer books so I just waited until they were distracted and wrote down all the answers.
I grew up in Canada but my two younger brothers were "homeschooled" for a year and it had such damaging, long lasting effects. The one brother was in Gr. 4 and the other was in Gr. 1. The one in Gr. 4 had major behavioural issues and instead of my parents confronting, disciplining him or getting him tested, my mom blamed the school and thought she could do way better. Even worse is the one in Gr. 1 was only homeschooled so the older brother didn't feel singled out, like no other reason than pandering to the other brother. He was doing fine in school and was just a regular 6 yr old who got yanked out on my mom's whim. My mom decided the best course of action was to start them both over with kindergarten work and go from there. The problem was they would act up and she would get sick of "teaching" in less than an hour and than let them run around. I would come home from school (there were 4 more of us that just went to a normal school) and they'd be running around and saying they hadn't done anything that day. Skip ahead to them going back to regular school and they were both so far behind but the school board said they had to be put in the correct grade to their age despite my mom insisting they start two grades down. They missed so much proper and crucial education and were left playing catch up the rest of their education. My mom to this day thinks this was a good decision and had no negative consequences on them. The older one should have had testing for special needs and given proper support in a school and the younger one struggles socially, like essentially he was screwed over by my mom thinking she knew best.
Did Canada keep the $29k/year is taxes they collected for public school or give it the the parents to help with home schooling? Two kids and $60k per year for them would have been a lot more than your describing, so I'm guessing the government was happy to collect that tax and ignore the family.
@@deshawnwashington3798 Lol, yea, I can tell you now my parents never got any money for home-schooling, especially since we were very poor and that kind of money would have made the world of difference.
@@deshawnwashington3798 the government (provinces) collect school taxes at the division level. this money goes to the school division that delivers free education at pubic schools with paid, trained teachers and no, this does not go to a parent if a parent yanks their kid out of school. I cannot even begin to calculate the amount of abuse this would potentially lead to. However, curricular textbooks and resources can be had from the school divisions for free - if you are actually educating your child. But what a joyless way to spend your days... no friends, no social interactions or community building and no building of social skills for later life either.
I have an online friend who was “homeschooled” in Texas. He’s like 21 now and has at most a dubious sixth grade education, leaving him no real path to getting any sort of decent job. My friend group is actually trying to get him set up with some way to at least get a GED so he can get money to maybe move out of his parents’ place. It’s really really sad how badly his parents failed him, and it’s all perfectly legal in Texas!
GED to community college/trades really is a decent way to get caught up. Remedial education exists for all kinds of people, whether they fell through the cracks in public school, were "homeschooled", or had an illness/crisis that derailed their education. Remind him that not being taught things that his peers know isn't his failing and even a late start is better than never starting at all. There may be setbacks, but he CAN do it!
Hi, huge shoutout to the entire team at LWT for doing this. I spoke to one of the producers about this and I was so impressed and grateful for the conversation we had about this, it was clear everyone there really cared about this issue. Thank you for giving us who went through certain types of "curriculum" a voice! I appreciate all of the parents who homeschool because they genuinely give a crap about their kids.
@@joebrewer4529 babe i have news for you: neither do us homeschoolers. In fact, when we do learn what words mean, the definition is often wrong (especially abeka curriculum). Ask me what the definition of "nation" or "humanism" was that I learned.
I was homeschooled K-12 and I absolutely loved it. I am currently getting a 4 year stem degree in 3 years on a ton of scholarships. I also absolutely agree with everything in this video. I met kids who were in abusive situations, and I'm sure there's way more that I never got the chance to meet. I am from PA, so we did get that little yearly check in and we had to take the occasional standardized test (like once every two years). It's the least they could do to make that a requirement for all states. It was not intrusive at all to our lovely homeschool, as a matter of fact we had evaluation parties every year where we'd invite all our homeschool friends and we'd go to a park and take turns getting evaluated by a handful of teachers. It was super fun. Also, a lot of us were far above grade level. My friends who has crippling social anxiety, ADHD, autism, etc etc or just couldn't do traditional school for whatever reason really thrived in homeschooling. It can be beautiful. The safety precautions put in place do not hinder a good homeschool experience. They do prevent abuse in a bad homeschool experience. They are absolutely necessary and I cannot overstate how important restrictions on homeschooling are.
Thank you from sharing your experience! I am also from PA and had a good homeschooling experience. The yearly checks definitely make sure you are meeting state expectations. We went through PA homeschoolers, so there were a lot of regulations and I feel like I had a good education. I’m now in grad school and doing well.
I am also from Pennsylvania and homeschooled 5 of my 6 kids through high school and they all went on to college and successful careers. First, PA has good oversight and well developed homeschool communities, secondly, I paid people to teach my children high level math, Spanish, and music. We had a literature rich home and worked hard to give our children global experiences. It took a great deal of effort and dedication but we had a great time and grew into a close family and raised fierce men and women
Yes, I had a great homeschooling experience as well (edit: California and Maryland) because my parents were a lot like yours. Most of my friends ended up being public schoolers, and a few homeschoolers. Every now and then I met one of the weird, indoctrinated homeschool kids where I knew something was off, but I didn’t quite know what it was. But they also didn’t have a lot of friends because they were “odd,” so we didn’t really try to get to know them. In hindsight, I feel sad about that. 😢
I recall a Swede in an online forum contrasting the Swedish view of family policy with what he regarded as the US view. He said something like: "We view parents as guardians responsibilities, not owners with rights." It sounds as if the HSLDA and many of the parents think of children as things parents can own can do with as they like. Let's talk about responsibilities.
I see you've never been in a public school, seen anything about their detailed regulation, oversight, and accountability, and you didn't watch the video. Robot?
@@chrispaige8880 School curriculums are constantly discussed publicly, even to the point where public media is reporting it nationwide. Parents and politicians are deciding which books are getting banned and which are allowed. Parents can and do influence school politics and school boards have to have meetings which even allow filming and publicly publishing the meetings. Schools have lots of oversight..
Yes! At the Coalition for Responsible Home Education (the org working to change these laws and protect homeschooled children that John mentioned) our motto is "Children have rights, parents have responsibilities."
@@chrispaige8880it’s called going to the fucking meetings where public discussion on the curriculum. Voting for your School board members. If you don’t like em, start a smear campaign to get them ousted. They need to have public meetings as well and you can just go to them, start a ruckus
Any time "parental rights" is used, it inevitably leads to it sounding like an argument about how children are possessions and not people. "Parental responsibility" is a better alternative purely for the implication that it is a continual, active action rather than the passive state that "right" implies.
One of the biggest downsides to homeschooling, besides bad education practices, is the potential lack of socialization. I was homeschooled, but I almost never left the house to socialize. Going into college, I found out just how lacking my social skills were. There were people I knew who compensated for this by doing sports or hanging with people they knew before they left public/private school.
there's a reason 'the homeschooled kid' is often the butt of the joke. I was also homeschooled for most of my life, and even though i didn't know how to read until I was 12, the lack of socialization and no close friends were by far the worst part
Yes I was thinking this as well! I was always in school with others. I learned two languages as an adult. You can learn all the academic skills from school in a pretty short time if you have enough time to devote to it. The reason it takes so long for children in school to learn something is because schools expect a large portion of the day to be used up with learning social skills. I went to an academically rigorous military boarding school for high school, and even there, a lot of time was spent on social skills, physical activities, and life skills such as cleaning.
That was 100% your parents choice we had several home schooling groups who got together and went on field trips to tons of places, played sports together, had outings to he park or a hike or bike ride all kinds of stuff that kids in school can't do during school hours usually lol you can even private tours to tons of places most people can't ainceit is "for school" go tour the local newspaper publisher, city hall, behind the scenes at amusement places, nursing homes, etc. Like what!?
@@soymilkmanwhy blame home schooling though? Otherkids have almost graduated high school by 12 through home alschooling clearly it was your PARENTS smdh
Thank you for adding "potential" to that statement. In some areas there simply aren't opportunities for homeschool socialization as public schools refuse interaction. In others there are so many events that it's physically impossible to attend them all. Luckily for our kids, the latter was true. Providing socialization events seems like a better use of HSLDA's money than the heavy religious indoctrination and lobbying they currently do.
I’m a homeschooling mom from a family of public school teachers and intellectuals. The decision to homeschool my child was not an easy one, but, it was definitely the right one for us. Having said that, I am all for some regulations- not only to protect the welfare of children- but, I would welcome a loosely structured benchmark system that would ensure that I am educating my child adequately.
True story, I went to high school with a kid who started going to public schools when he was 15. He was a super nice kid but was also SUPER awkward. He was homeschooled until then and had no frame of reference for socializing. He also came from a super religious family. By the end of that first year we went to school with him, he seemed genuinely destroyed emotionally. He said that he felt like he lost his entire childhood. He sat at home and learned about Jesus for basically a quarter of his life. He turned out okay in the end, but he was always super depressed about how we had all these stories and friends while he spend 15 years of his life just sitting in his bedroom. I'm sure that is a good thing for a small amount of people who maybe have rare or unfortunate health issues but he felt like his adolescent years were stolen from him.
This is very similar to my story, except I didn’t even make it to public school, for me it was a private Christian school. It wasn’t until the 10th grade that I was enrolled. It’s hard to relate to a lot of traditional media (television shows, movies, etc.) surrounding schools, because I just never really had any of that experience, and the very little experience I did have was a VERY toned down version steeped in religion. The closest experience I have is college, and even then, I had very different experiences than are typically shown in mass media…partly because of the degree program I was enrolled in, and partly because I was very much building social skills and cues from the ground up
@@TheSmark666Imagine being awkward and not understanding why or even that it’s an awkward situation because you lack all social context needed to exist among a group of people you have never met before. Now make that 5 days a week.
I homeschool. My son is autistic and what the schools can do for him is limited. He would certainly be a disruption to the other children. All that said, Im constantly appalled that the state never checks in on homeschooled kids. I 100% would support quarterly welfare checks on my kids. But our system doesn't even have enough CPS workers to help kids with known serious abuse. It's disturbing.
This is why in other countries they usually have different kinds of special ed schools to suit those kids needs. Inclusion is wonderful but just not always the best way to do it. My nephew has ASD and ADHD and started out in a normal elementary school, didn't work out so he ended up in a school where he only had three classmates and teachers who specialize in teaching kids like him. All free at point of access and funded by taxes just like all the other schools. My partner cousin went to a school like that too because she has multiple learning disabilities and a physical one too and she thrived there and suddenly didn't feel like the odd one out or stupid. She was just one of the kids there and was suddenly able to do really good because she actually had the time to catch up. Inclusion is great and all but sometimes it's just better to separate to give kids these chances. They still have a lot of experiences with everyone else in the world after school.
@@DieAlteistwiederda We already have this in most districts - at least an attempt at it. But in most cases this doesn’t and will never work in the US. Most of our public schools can’t even do the basics successfully, let alone deal with kids who have extra needs. Homeschooling is an equally valid alternative in the meantime. There needs to be more regulation around homeschooling though.
then you can voluntarily do that yourself. Some people don't want govt involved in their lives at all and do just fine without them getting involved. It's fine if you want things, you can do whatever you want. Just do go out there trying to force everyone to live the way you want to live and be checked up on.
This hits extremely hard as someone who was pulled out of school at 7, and then neglected for the rest of my childhood. It wasn’t just poor teaching or misinformation- it was complete nothingness, with only a promise of complete control of us. Home schooling can be good, of course, but there are so many kids like I was where it’s simply a way to further isolation and abuse. Even within America, so many people are so sure that reporting to the government and having check-ins is required- trust me, even in the states where that seems to be the case, it isn’t enforced.
I'm so sorry, and I'm right there with you. My parents could have just made me totally disappear and it would have been 1) legal and 2) undetectable. Knowing as a kid that my parents had that kind of total power and I had basically no rights was... pretty scary. We need at least the basic reforms that CRHE is pushing for.
@@FireddaCouldn't have said it better myself. "Total power" is exactly what is being given here, no questions asked and no oversight given. And it's a control that, if they play their cards right, can stretch well into adulthood. Feel free not to read all this, but as a little more info on how fucked up it can be legally for anyone who doesn't realize: I don't know how it is in other states, but for me, it was physically impossible for me to get any form of identification (state ID, driver's license) without a parent signing-- because I had no prior school ID or record of living anywhere. I was only able to finally convince my father to let me get a state ID at 21 (after pleading since I was 15) under assurance that I could start working and pay bills. Before that, the only record of me still existing was a tick on their tax forms saying I was a dependent. Any person who genuinely loves and supports their children should be able to look at any amount of abuse and be able to say "oh, yeah, I can deal with a minor inconvenience to help protect kids going through that."
My husband forged the homeschooling paperwork with his mother's signature when he was 16. He did this because his mother was a horrifically abusive alcoholic and he needed to be able to work a full time job to pay the rent so they wouldn't be evicted. 15:51 The abuse had been reported, she had even been pulled over while driving drunk with him in the car. But he was never removed from her 'care'. Even after breaking a jack daniels bottle over his head and stabbing him with it. The liberal state of Oregon does not remove children from their mothers- even when abusive and incapable. She had spent all her money on alcohol and there wasnt any food in the house. He would slip out his bedroom window every day and go to the library to do his school work and afterwards he would go to his dishwasher job at a restaurant. He graduated on time and left home as soon as he turned 18, joining the marines. We met while we were both on active duty. Homeschooling has a place in society. for alot of people this is the only good option. Unfortunately there will always be people that misuse systems in place to help people, that doesn't mean that the system shouldn't exist.
I knew a fully homeschooled family that was so behind the curve it was terrifying. I'm talking about fully grown adults who have graduated not knowing important historical events like the holocaust while literally thinking that "nazis are just a type of Zombie." They didn't know math, they could barely read above a 2nd grade level, and their emotional maturity was basically non-existent. It was easier to determine what they didn't know rather than what they knew. It was genuinely devastating to see and the state did nothing about it despite being called on them multiple times. Meanwhile, I personally dropped out of 7th grade halfway through the year to do "Home Studies" which was a hybrid program. I met with a teacher once a week to receive my homework and go over what it would entail. I was then left to my studies with the ability to reach out to her any time with questions or I could simply save it for the following week and be a bit behind but go over it in person to catch up later. I went from suicidal to flourishing. I found my passions, I was able to work part time, I was able to travel and I made life long friends during this time period.
Whenever we had homeschooled kids join our class, ALWAYS ahead or at par depending on the subject. Both our stories are anecdotal, but seemed to always be the case.
Lmaoo this idiot really said someone was far behind because they didn’t know the holocaust?! Lmao wow I really am speechless. The conditioning worked on you wholeheartedly. And then you dropped out in 7th grade as well lmaooooo that’s hilarious to be honest
I was homeschooled in Michigan and my experience was honestly excellent. My mom did a great job raising and teaching us, my siblings and I all went on to college or full-time employment, we're good citizens, etc. HOWEVER, I saw some *stuff* among the other homeschool families I interacted with and the lack of regulation is *scary.* I met families that were literal denim-skirt wearers with 12 kids who only taught their daughters how to be housewives. There is some incredibly ridiculous curriculum (especially in history and science) and a massive fear of public education. It is a completely different world than the one everyone else exists in.
I'm glad someone else had a good experience with homeschooling! I have had the same story as you, a wonderful mother who was a good teacher and made sure we were knowledgeable on all topics. There were families in the homeschool groups who were very lacking though and I understand the fear of it.
Teaching daughters that they can be anything other than housewives leads to them becoming whores, which means the usa is becoming a third world shithole.
@coltonwesley4460 1 hour ago "I was homeschooled in Michigan and my experience was honestly excellent. " Was it, or do you but not have a basis for comparison? The arrogance it takes for a parent to think they are more qualified than a team of highly trained teachers is sheer hubris. Home Schooling is about on par with Home Dentistry. It is just a bad idea all around
I was being sexually abused at home as a kid. I didn't understand what was happening. It was the public school sex education that I'm sure my family didn't want me knowing that taught me something was very wrong. You can't ask for help if you don't even know what's going on. That is why public school sex education is so important. Im not against home-schooling for the right reasons, but wanting to hide your kids from sex education is a huge red flag to me that abuse is likely happening behind closed doors. I've known people who were pulled out of public school due to abuse, harrassment, and bullying. It was vital for them to grow into healthy adults without excess trauma. Public schools aren't perfect at all and it makes me nervous too. Home schooling can absolutely be done right. Yet, the main reason I always hear is because they want their kids to not understand what sex is. Or worse, what understanding for those different than you are. That's a massive 🚩
"I was being sexually abused at home as a kid" This is one of the most painful sentences I have ever read! Were you being abused by your own family members?
This was excellent thank you. I work at a college and I basically help every single incoming student get their paperwork in. Some of these parents just make up the kids entire high school transcript when I tell them I have to have one on file. Like they just make it all up and then sign it. And I have to sit there and accept it like it is a real document. As a person with OCD, with a degree in archival record keeping who works in a records office, this gives me heart palpitations. The integrity of everything is literally falling apart right now and no one cares
I was pulled from school because after attending kindergarten the teachers realized I was going to need special needs classes. My parents HATED this idea vehemently. No one bothered getting me diagnosed with what was wrong until many years later. When they pulled me from school, they also pulled my siblings from school. I feel bad for that, because it always kind of got pushed on to me as being "my fault" that my older sibling (8 years older) was no longer thriving in an environment that he was used to. They proceeded to put me through two runs of Hooked on Phonics, and then threw ACE books at me and told me to do my work, and then after that do my chores. They did not teach me or instruct me in my schooling at all. Chores were paramount in my life. I was cooking family meals at 6 years old, doing dishes, cleaning the house, and generally held to a standard that now I realize seems very extreme for a child so young. I was not allowed to go outside and socialize. I couldn't read after Hooked on Phonics. It turns out that I have dyslexia, and I ended up teaching myself to read after a massive struggle for years. I was 11 by the time I could read and participate in school at an acceptable level. By this time, I was severely behind and they stopped buying our curriculum for us whenever I finally got myself into 9th grade material at 15. I never got to graduate because "the material was too expensive" and "we'll buy some next month for you". These lines were repeated until I was 18. They did not allow me to go to public school. I even tried to leave the house to go to public school on several occasions, and I was physically attacked by my mother to keep me from doing so. I did not get to graduate. I did not get instruction or assistance. Extended family knew what was happening, family friends knew what was happening, and nobody did anything to help. I fell through the cracks. I firmly believe that the state should be able to require homeschooled kids to be sent for an exam twice a year at least to check in with them, test them on material, and also be able to speak with the child privately to make sure abuse is not happening. Neglect is abuse everyone. Parentification of your child is also wrong on many levels.
I'm renting a room from a guy and his wife who are doing the same thing to their kids. It's so obvious that all 3 of the kids are WAY behind where they should be. One of them has some sort of severe learning disability that definitely isn't being addressed. The family never leaves the house. Most of the "curriculum" seems to be chore-based. It's hard to watch. I've spoken with a couple mandatory reporter people about the situation and have been told there's nothing that can be done because none of this is breaking any laws.
As a mom of a special needs young adult, who stayed in the school system and ended up thriving enough to graduate with honors, though still struggles in some ways, I am so sad ths happened to you and your siblings. For what it's worth, I send you some warm hugs and some unconditional love. May the rest of your life be brighter. ❤
For about a year and a half, I was completely homeschooled. I was getting bullied terribly and my anxiety was through the roof, so it just made more sense to sign me up through a homeschool program at home. The program we used was actually accredited by the state, so for each book I completed, I got several credits (3-5) that would be applied to my freshman year of HS. It wasn't something I really enjoyed, ONLY because I had to teach myself and had to discipline myself to dedicate the work and the time. Thankfully my Parents and Grandmother aren't like the parents who made that god-awful list; when I got my work done for the day after dedicating typically 3hrs or more, they let me do what I pleased for the most part (within reason). I still helped with chores, but the biggest focus was school first and foremost, THEN I could do chores. When I finally did get past some of my anxieties and went back to public school, I actually had more credits for my freshman year than most, so not only did I receive the credits needed to finish middle school, but I had enough to actually get a head start in highschool. Sadly, my anxiety got worse when the bullying returned, and I left during my Sophmore year to get my GED, which in hindsight was a fantastic move. My community college was safe, clean, friendly and inviting, and I had actual teachers that cared about me and my progress. Best of all, nobody really gave a shit or heckled you because they were older (20s-late 60s was my class). They got to focus on each student more, simply because the class had a maximum of 10-15 students. By the time I got my GED, only 6 people finished the class. It is absolutely 100% HOW you're homeschooled. It's all about how your parents choose to handle your education. These people don't care about their kids like mine did, they want slaves, racial inequality, and the end of everything 'sinful' as deemed by them. We need serious homeschool reform.
I homeschooled my kid and would keep to the same teaching hours as public schools. The only difference was that my kid did not have to do homework, even his French club homework was done during school time: when you are taught one by one, the teaching is more intensive so you can learn more: at school a lot of time is "wasted" organising the class to organising materials, get started on activities and waiting for everyone to finish. Besides, EVERYONE needs time to relax, and playtime is extremely important for children's development.
@@fredskull1618 the reasons children have for bullying are not the responsibility of the bullied to find out, and they are usually not the reasons the bullies say out loud, so it doesn't really matter why they were bullied, does it? I've been bullied for being new, different, female, light-skinned, fat, having black dyed hair, being red-headed, blond, brunette, having dark-skinned friends, getting good grades, getting bad grades, answering questions, being quiet, being loud, having acne, needing a bra, smiling, not smiling, wearing skirts, switching to pants when boys lifted my skirts. I've been called a slut in 5th grade for hanging around only boys and ridiculed for being a lesbian in 7th for hanging around only girls. I changed schools six times by 9th grade. It doesn't matter where you are or whether anyone is familiar with why you've been bullied before. The bullying doesn't stop until you leave.
@@JasminemPolyanthum also, I’m sorry those things happened to you, and it sounds like you went to school in a shitty area full of shitty parents with shitty kids who have shitty ideas about the world and about people who are “different”.
One of my best friends was homeschooled, and she absolutely hated it. Her parents were too busy (read: neglectful) to actually teach her, so she was basically left on her own to do her own schoolwork. Luckily, my friend was extremely studious, but was often frustrated that she had no one to explain things to her if she got stuck or confused. Btw, she was in 4th grade when they pulled her out of school (That's 9-10 years old, for those of you with a different system). Until she went to college, she basically had to teach herself. Worse yet, she's the oldest of four siblings, and also had to teach them. They were much less enthusiastic about schoolwork than she was, so getting them to pay attention was hell. She was basically those kids' third parent. And yes, that is the definition of parentification.
She's in her thirties now, has a terrible relationship with her mother, and one of her sisters ended up in prison for a year. She says the best thing she ever did was move out of her house, which she did by going to college and getting a degree. I remember when we were in college, she wouldn't stop gushing about how much better it was than her homeschooling situation.
We pulled out our son from HS b/c they were unable to support his adhd (despite an IEP) and it was causing him massive anxiety. We did a mix of online learning and dual enrolment in community college until he graduated this year. It worked really well for us. I was *shocked* to learn how minimal the standards are for a HS diploma for homeschooled kids. Basically, no standards at all. It is really disturbing to realize how easily educational neglect can occur.
And in public schools, they promote you with no standard at all. None. Zero. You just get promoted. Please reference grade level achievement for the average inner city child.
Noting here that my daughter had a rough time in high school because a couple of her teachers didn't "believe" ADD was real, so wouldn't allow time-and-a-half testing. Upon being formally tested at 17, she was allowed to take all exams, including the APs, with extra time. As a result, she went to an Ivy League school where no one cared how long it took her to do anything. Now, with a master's degree in biochemistry, she's fully employed--and works with a team of scientists who value her brain rather than a stop-watch!
We homeschooled through 12th grade. We used charter based schools for supervision and records. I am a credentialed teacher, that’s why I realized they didn’t need to go to school. There are lots of a la carte classes and specialized teachers in our area
I was homeschooled and since my mom believed in education. I ended up educated better then my friends who went to the local school. I am still amazed when I find out what my fellow adults didn't learn in school.
My cousin is a teacher and she worked at schools at small towns in TX. She regularly had to issue reports on parents that shamelessly abused their own children in some way. Children coming to school with bruises. Smelling of urine. Pale and with dark circles around their eyes because of malnutrition. Many of the parents of those kids were alcoholics or were on drugs. I can't imagine how life is for homeschooled children having no hope of being rescued from such toxic and abusive households.
I think generally these people are abusive because they don't want their children around. I can't imagine what would incentivize these people to homeschool their children. To be fair, it does happen, but that is definitely not a large portion of the homeschooling community.
@@isakblomberg528 Well, I'm remembering that guy who imprisoned his daughter in his basement and forced her to have something like 5 of his children, so no, not all abuse is neglect
@isakblomberg528 child abuse is about power and control, not just not wanting the kid around. Hitting the child for being (percieved) disobedient, or even just as a matter of rote, is a means of assering authority over them, reminding the child that they and they alone have power. Homeschooling lets then double down on that, removing time the kid can get away from them and preventing teachers from reporting them and threatening that power. To be clear, you are right and most homeschooling is likely not that, but *any* is unacceptable, and that's why basic protections need to exist.
Former “Homeschooled” Kid here. The moment I saw the title I knew I was in for reliving the most depressing & lonely time in my life. I was “Homeschooled” for the first 9 years of my life. Then my grandparents died and parents crumbled mentally and stopped teaching us. We kept asking them to teach us again, but they’d be “Too Tired” or try and get us to teach ourselves, we’d ask to be sent to school so we could be with our neighborhood friends, we never were. I barely left my house for years. I’m 21, I don’t have my GED, it’ll be years because I’m able to even take the test. I’m only just now learning how to socialize because I lost all of my friends when I was 10 because I was too weird and our parents kept getting into arguments. A large part of me died in that house, But I’m getting better now. I live alone, I have a good job that I’m passionate about. I don’t talk to my parents that often, the less the better. Homeschooling nearly killed my sisters and I.
I'm a home schooled family/ given books told "figure it out" and my sister left home 18 and went to Texas state graduated last year. I'm 18 and a Partially functioning couch potato B student its PreCal level stuff ok.
Although homeschooling works for some, in other cases it is not recommended. I had a kindergarten student whose mom could not separate from him. Literally left bawling her eyes out every day for the first two weeks of school. I seem to remember her looking in to volunteering in the classroom, but before the third week was out, she had pulled him from school and said she planned to homeschool the child. Because she couldn’t bring herself to be separated from him. I cannot even begin to imagine what became of this child. The emotional clutch for his parent.
Knowing someone who was homeschooled for several years, the biggest issue I saw was that they were extremely isolated. They never saw other kids. At all. They barely even got to leave the house because of the mother's paranoia. Which was really sad because they were a really social kid who just didn't get to socialize.
Seems more like a societal problem than a homeschooling problem. Community leaves so many people isolated, but do we care about them? Na, lets target homeschoolers, because of a few bad actors. 119 school mass shootings in the US last year. If each one killed only one student, then 119 children died in 2020. A few more than the 10 shown in this video that died at their parents hands. A few fewer than the abusive parents that send their kids to school.
@@teamshoemakerit can be both. The point being that the homeschooling made accountability for the mental problem all the more less likely and its effects even more exacerbated.
My parents started homeschooling us after Columbine and, honestly, it was the best thing they could’ve done. I was an extremely shy and socially awkward kid so it took a lot of pressure off me. It also afforded us a lot of opportunities and experiences that my friends in public school didn’t get. It helps that I wasn’t raised in a religious household, so our curriculum wasn’t funneled through religion. I’m a big proponent of homeschooling but it definitely needs more oversight.
Agreed. It worked great for me. My mom is amazing and I got a better education online than 90% of the kids in my district. I socialized through extracurriculars and was very happy. Shootings are also really common here, so I also felt safer. I got time to explore my hobbies and myself and have no regrets after graduating this year. But it's not for everyone. Every kid should have the choice. And every family shouldn't suck balls and isolate their children/indoctrinate them
I don't see what is even a problem with a religious education. I went to public school and church. The church did not warp me. The schools did! That is why I was so excited to homeschool my kids for as long as possible. Homeschooling can be an incredible education. Just depends.
Just want to acknowledge that a lot of us end up homeschooling because no matter how many IEPs you have a lot of US schools simply do not have the funds/resources to meet our children’s needs. And those us with medically fragile kids have had to pull our kids out of school because there is literally NO covid mitigation in most public schools. I’ve had to go part-time to manage our child’s education and we are lucky that we can scrape by one 1 and 1/2 income. We definitely need more educational oversight and finding ways to end educational neglect and abuse, as well as better secular resources.
The success of homeschooling depends very much on the parents. I'm an independent teacher and I often work with homeschooled kids, and I've seen how it can work and how oftentimes it doesn't work. The times it does work, the parents provide good stucture and are often getting outside help from classes and tutors. The "unschooled" students I've worked with could barely read by their late teens, and they were embarrassed about it. They were also very socially awkward and had trouble synthesizing information. It's so important to build up those foundations when they are very young, so they have the tools to continue learning in their teens and adulthood.
there is just no beating getting focused education by a specialist on the topic for each topic you get taught... for homeschooling to have a chance at drawing equal, they basically need parents highly qualified on all subjects taught who also have the time to spend 6 hours per day on their kids education... well or a slew of private teachers to fill the gaps without that... any benefits from more directed attention falls off due to lack of qualification... and without the full attention, you are not even gaining that benefit over a school environment, while incurring all the detriments from lack of social contacts home schooling is a concept that can only work for the rich... for everyone else its doomed to failure
@@SharienGaming One of the things that really surprised me homeschooling was that it wasn't six hours per day. We do WAY more in-depth on each subject than they do in public schools. It is especially fun if my kiddo thinks something is interesting, we can just go deep dive on it (I shift around how much teaching I do in the subject later to make sure everything still gets covered, a little more work for me, but makes him more excited to learn). Where we were picking up a ton of time was all those times in school where you were walking from one class to the next, or just standing in line waiting, the time spent travelling to and from, listening to morning announcements and doing the pledge of allegiance, etc. etc. etc. All those things add up a ton. Some of that reclaimed time we just take to do outings to museums and zoos and other onsite outings, but he gets some of it back as free time too. In fact, as he has gotten into high school, him having control over his time to a much greater degree has been a huge benefit. For example, he had a new game he wanted coming out on a Wednesday. He 'wheeled and dealed' a deal that if got all his schoolwork for the week done by Tuesday that I would buy him the game and he would have the rest of the week off. He chose to work into the evening on two days and got it done. I was really proud of him (and a bit jealous I can't do the same thing with work). It is more motivating for him when he is involved with the decisions. He also decided last year that he would prefer to not jump around subjects so much and do all his work for each subject on a single day each week, so Monday might be English, Tuesday Math, Wednesday Science, etc. It is working out well for him so we are letting it ride. As long as he keeps learning and doing well, then anything that makes him more motivated is a good thing in my book.
@@SharienGaming I find it odd that you believe one must be an expert in order to facilitate the learning of a child. If a parent is engaged in their homeschooling efforts, they are learning right along with the children. Understanding your children's strengths and weaknesses is important, but not even as important as understanding your own and putting in the effort to find help to close the gaps in your skills or understanding. This can be done through many online resources, tutoring groups, etc. Both of my kids tested well above average on their PSSAs and despite my youngest's constant belly aching about it both are extremely literate and capable of information synthesis (though my oldest detests writing things in sentence format and didn't think I would catch him using ChatGPT to turn his outline into a report)
@@seanmahoney2671 you dont have to just devote the time to the teaching itself - you also have to invest time into preparing lessons, organising the material and reading up on the material yourself and if you assign work they are supposed to do on their own, you have to invest the time into preparing and correcting that as well sidenote - i dont think encouraging working into the evening and night is a good idea, because thats work that is unlikely to stick... when you are tired you are less clear headed, make more mistakes and retain less information - cramming like that isnt a good idea... and of course rest and recovery is incredibly important and on something entirely different - that time waiting and walking between classes isnt wasted - its really useful for socializing and learning how others think, act and how to interact with them mind you - neuro-atypical kids may have issues with crowds or overstimulation and in those cases they likely need help with developing effective coping techniques to deal with that on a regular basis... there specialized schooling or homeschooling may be the better option though the whole pledge thing really is a waste of time... in fact that still creeps me out everytime i hear about it and it reeks of authoritarianism
I was homeschooled, I’d say I have generously a 8th grade education. I’m about to turn 30 and I JUST learned about Malcom X. I was taught white supremacy ideology. We did the same curriculum as the duggars. Sex Ed taught me my job as a person with female genitalia is to procreate. ALSO my parents allowed me to be emotionally involved with a grown man 10 years older then me because he went to our church.
There are high school graduates right now with an education less than that. It’s an imperfect system if you send your kids to homeschool or public school. Not all teachers are heroes either.
@angelbaby1811 yes, you are correct. However, if a child attends public school, the chances that children will l get am excellent teacher, at some point, is excellent. New teachers every year mean new opportunities. My father taught small Christian schools and he was my teacher for two years in a row. The third year he declined to teach my grade because he knew that students will reflect their teachers strengths and weaknesses. He was concerned for me after two years. Now imagine the same teacher for grades 1 through 12.
Thank you for highlighting the many issues with home schooling. I have a doctorate in education and am the principal of a public school now - but was a home schooled child in the 80s/early 90s. It was a dark and abusive place to be and I left at age 16 (as did my siblings). Now, as a principal, I feel even more frustrated by this issue of unsafe home schools because I am just as powerless to stop it as I was 30 years ago. It is not regulated and it allows new generations of parents to abuse children. Children deserve better.
@@jackiec.barnes9567you sound like you’re a homeschooling parent, but if you’re not abus!ve, it’s not about you. If you feel threatened, maybe ask yourself why
@@seitanbeatsyourmeat666 I only feel threatened by these new age liberal crazies Who are more fascist than they are liberal. My children go to public school Because I work a full-time job to provide for my family.
My granddaughter is being homeschooling right now. There are a few programs out there. The school needed verification of vaccinations and registration exactly like public schools. She also had to report yearly for her standard testing, just like public schools. Meet ups for art, music, clubs, and physical fitness events. What she didn't get to experience was bulling, peer pressure, and most importantly active shooter drills. She was already home schooling when the pandemic happened so her world never skipped a beat. She is scoring way higher then the children in our state in public schools.
There are good homeschooling associations out there however, there are also homeschooled kids like the ones that live across the street from my mother-in-law. The teacher is a recovering drug addict 15 years sober so that’s good but at 8 AM she turns her kids out in the yard with guns And they shoot all day. These kids are now old enough to drive, and cannot read or do basic arithmetic because all they’ve done for the last 10 years is hang out outside and shoot beer cans. Mom is off the drugs. She is not off the alcohol.
It means parents with a lot of resources like education, material, leisure time can ignore others. This is how upper class education used to work. You get a personal informant so your kids can have the best without having to care for others.
I'm not sure how much kids can be shielded. I can't tell kids they must avoid other kids, that you do not need to develop skills to function with others.
My boyfriend was homeschooled, no horror story but he basically stopped getting an education after 3rd grade. His mom taught him for a year or two and then just stopped trying or doing anything. He lived in one of the states that you only have to notify once that you're homeschooling. I guess we finally figured out how she got away with it. Some people can't fathom how a parent can be awful, or just how bad a terrible parent can actually be. You can't assuming they'll do the right thing by their child when they can barely manage themselves.
Thank you for sharing your experience and I am sorry to hear that. I hope that he is able to see what happened to him wasn’t normal. I have a couple of questions if you don’t mind answering. 1. Did he live in a small town/ rural area? Was the state either Utah or Idaho? 2. Do you think that homeschooling parents are afraid that their kid might end up knowing more than them in education and that’s why they neglect to actually teach curriculum to their kids?
@@reetammitra2943This can happen in a lot of states, not just a rural place like Utah or Idaho. Its legal to do this in Virginia. It's legal not to teach your homeschooled child to read in Virginia! The Coalition for Responsible Home Education exists to stop this, and to change the laws so that it's no longer legal to just not teach homeschooled children at all.
@@carmengreen8116 i see. I understand this is a common feature in all red or historically red states. I find it weird that even after trending blue for a couple of cycles in Virginia, the democrats haven’t made any changes to these basic laws. But regardless of the state I think the city vs small town divide is pretty stark when it comes to homeschooling. Don’t think there are that many neglectful homeschooling parents in cities, for various reasons. I appreciate the new movement and wish them all the success. I was curious as to your experience with my 2nd question. Coz my experience tells me that a lot of these folks feel genuinely intimidated by highly educated people (people who got a college degree) and they fear that actually teaching their kids increases their chance to go to college later on
@@reetammitra2943there are neglectful and abusive homeschooling cases in cities and suburbs all the time. The Turpin case in California is a good example. The now-adult children were interviewed on 20/20 last year; they were horrifically abused in a normal, middle-class neighborhood in California. No one should think that "it couldn't happen here," no matter where they live. And it's also wrong to think that homeschooling parents who are educationally neglecting their children are themselves worried about their kids getting more education than them. Both of my parents had bachelors degrees, as did many of the parents of the homeschooling alumni I know. There was an educational neglect case in Virginia that the Washington Post covered involving someone named Josh Powell--his mother had a graduate degree.
I was homeschooled because my parents were worried about school shootings, but there was virtually no oversight or help from my parents afterwards (my mom worked fulltime but my dad was home and glued to the tv). The fact that I graduated college with honors still makes me proud because my parents were not making sure I was up to par. They just handed me the school books and a few pencils and trusted me to do the rest. (They made me use ACE to boot, btw.)
I think somewhere I came to the conclusion that a good education was largely made up of three things: good teachers, involved parents, and self-motivated students. Students can get a good education with two of the three, but only having one is really tough, and none is guaranteed failure. Things like good facilities with HVAC and having office supplies may have been taken for granted.
Biggest issue IMO is lack of oversight. I recall one of my parents telling me in 9th grade that they could no longer help me in math, and my first thought was to question why they still felt qualified to be my primary educators.
Yeah my mom did that to me around 8th grade. I asked for help with my homework, she took a look then handed it back to me and said she couldn't do it. However, I was in school, so I actually had teachers I could go to for help!
In fairness, math is something that has been taught very differently to different generations. Parents can be excellent in the subject and still not know how to teach their kids. In contrast to literacy, which spans generations.
I was home schooled until 9th grade. Stepped foot into high school without knowing absolutely anything but basic reading, writing arithmetic but everything about the Bible. Granted this was the early 2000's. But because of the religion based curriculum used I knew absolutely nothing about anything in society. I had to be put in special education classes because I was never taught an algebraic equation. I was a dancer (my mom owned a dance studio) so, I wasn't completely unsocial. But it was a total and complete culture shock. I made cheerleader when I was a sophomore and junior. Only 15 cheerleaders out of a class of 2300 people knew you. But it was horrible for me! I was suicidal, beyond depressed, and felt so ignorant. I know things have changed a bit now with homeschooling. But it definitely hendered me then from being a better version of myself.
I was homeschooled after the age of 12 and it saved my education. Even with an IEP and teachers doing their absolute best, my public school system just didn’t have the resources to accommodate my learning disabilities and I was falling behind academically. I live in Massachusetts and all we had to do was submit one letter letting the state know what we were planning to do and then at the end of the year we’d submit another saying what my curriculum had been and what resources I used (tutors, a homeschooling resource center, community college classes, etc.). It’s absolutely necessary to have regulation so that kids can access the benefits of homeschooling while protecting kids from the parents only looking to abuse them.
I have a lot of thoughts on homeschooling as one of four kids who were homeschooled up until college (which I did well in a STEM Field), and in short my wife (who did well in public school) and I are going to homeschool our own kids - but I do agree that there needs to be some protections for those kids whose parents simply use it as a tool for religious indoctrination or laziness.
Theoretically, an institution capable of regulating homeschooling equitably should be capable of educating your children. You have determined already that this institution isn’t capable of the latter, yet you believe it capable of the former?
@@addammadd no, that’s not theoretically true. Even with an IEP and teachers trying their hardest, my school district didn’t have the resources to accommodate my learning disabilities, hence why I was years behind where I should’ve been academically and nearly got held back for sixth grade. Homeschooling regulation doesn’t require nearly all the same resources as meeting a students needs through the public school system, there’s a big difference between making sure that an adequate education is being provided and actually being the one to administer that education.
I homeschool my children, every year they take State tests and submit composite scores - all done willingly. There’s not much in oversight here, and I wish there were. While my children have learned to soar and pursue their interests, I have seen terrible things. I was kicked out of a co-op (a place where Homeschool families gather together for either play or educational purposes) because there was a woman with 1 daughter and several sons. After teaching her daughter the basic four and how to read, decided not to educate her any further. At nine years old, her parents decided she was only going to be a mother & wife and that was her extent! I’ve never been so angry. Homeschooling needs oversight and check ins.
What would you propose, that wouldn't end up being a nightmare with a corrupt government? That's what concerns me! But I feel really bad for that girl. I hope her brothers educate her... that's how it was 150 years ago... so maybe she will turn out fine... I hope.
So why were you kicked out? Did you confront them? Because honestly, it's none of your business. Report them to CPS and move on. If you made a scene, then YOU got yourself kicked out.
@@hannaheyeHistorically, education was an upper class privilege here. It was not all that nice. It was a system where our elite could keep their kids from meeting plebs.
In Greece, you have to attend a public or private school until the age of 15. If a parent prevents their child from attending school until that age, they recieve up to 17 years in prison. I am a maths teacher at a school and believe that it should be mandatory for all children to participate in the social setting of a school. The most important thing that people gain from school isnt knowledge, but the friends and social skills they develop.
There certainly are some cases where kids actually do benefit from homeschooling. For example something like psychological or medical issues which wouldn't be adequately addressed in school.
For my home school curriculum I took a GED test to verify that I had a highschool level education, and for socialization I used boyscouts, martial arts, larp events, homeschool gatherings, and the YMCA. I probably had better socialization for a few years, but when my brother left to go to public school he got involved with a local crime syndicate and made my life hell for a few years... so I wouldn't say any of this is that simple.
I'm not defending home schooling here, as it's such a stupid thing, but remember this story is about the USA where there's not an unreasonable chance there'll be a mass shooting at school since nobody seems to care about gun control. and, of course, all those right wing 'evangelical' nut jobs there so you see why such common sense as in Greece sadly doesn't apply there. also; I always liked maths as I could go just about make it by not learning but using logic. it was an easy subject for what little we use it in my profession (health sector).
@@mcb4585In Greece we *typically* fix these issues by assigning specialized teachers as constant +1s for such kids. That system has been falling apart due to lack of funding and mismanagement, but when it works correctly it allows that kid to have an as close to normal school life as possible, it enables the parents to work during the school hours and it also creates new jobs for these specialized teachers. There's obviously scenarios where even this isn't a valid solution, in which case homeschooling might be the best and only option, but I really do think that it should only be the last alternative and only when approved by some official who has specialized in the field. (lots of shoulds and romanticism in what I just said, but oh well, man can dream)
The only person I’d trust to help homeschool my kids, if I ever tried that, would be my mother, she is a retired kindergarten teacher. She taught me a lot of things early on in life and reminds me when I’m being dumb. That’s cuz she’s literally qualified and now is an assistant teacher and sometimes teaches the teachers. I love her. She’s amazing.
When I was a senior in highschool I had a teacher ask a friend of his, who happened, by pure coincidence, to be a spouse of a close family member, if I was safe at home. I wasn’t but I honestly didn’t know that. I was 17 years old and had no idea because it was all I knew. I’d been isolated from a young age and had a lot of trouble making friends. I got in so much trouble when my parents found out. So much trouble. I didn’t tell anyone anything but that teacher knew something wasn’t right. It was just after my 5th suicide attempt. He saved my life. Just asking that question, and getting me in trouble, put the idea in my head that maybe what I was going through wasn’t normal. Without him I wouldn’t be alive right now and I will forever be grateful. Children need people to look in on them. They have no idea what normal looks like and can be convinced a lot of really messed up stuff is normal and they just aren’t strong enough to handle it.
I was homeschooled in the 90s. It’s taken me decades of work and lots of therapy to overcome the educational neglect and abuse at the hands of my parents. I do not speak to them now because they cannot acknowledge the ramifications I have faced as an adult trying to make my way in the world. I’m so glad to see segments like this, although it can be hard to watch. My entire life was shaped by terrible, TERRIBLE homeschooling. Also, definitely dissected a cow eye at my kitchen table…
Having been a public school substitute teacher for fifteen years my feelings about home schooling have changed a lot. Public schools are a nightmare for students who don't live in very privileged communities. I can understand why parents want to take their kids out of a place that isn't safe. Teachers are harried and dealing with so many behavior problems they barely have time to think about the education part in their infrequent breaks from being a cop. That said, of course we need better regulations to protect kids from abusive parents.
People who pull their children from a public school are people with the time, money and education to dedicate to their children. What happens to the rest? Maybe if everyone was forced to send their children to school, like, you know, most developed countries, politicians might have been forced to take action.
@@mementovivere2you're wrong. Many people that homeschool aren't wealthy or privileged. I know because my wife and I homeschool our children. She was. School teacher for 15 years and she saw our oldest child who has autism struggle with public school. He couldn't sit still and constantly made noises and he was constantly getting in trouble for it. My wife applied for and received an IEP and even got a Neurologist to write a letter saying he needed individualized care and the school called us in and said it wasn't going to happen because they didn't have the resources. At 5 years old my son came home crying and said to my wife "everyday I struggle to pretend to be someone I'm not". My wife right then decided she was going to attempt homeschooling. She told him she didn't know if it would work or if we could handle it but that she would try. We are not rich. We are not well off. In fact, when we decided this, we were technically homeless. We were living in the basement of my wife's parent's home. We've been homeschooling for 7 years now and my wife is the head of a local homeschool coop. 90% of the families she comes in contact with are not rich or well off. They are usually families with special needs where the children aren't thriving in the public school environment.
Not everyone has a two parent household and family they can live with. What single parent is home schooling out of a shelter while working two jobs? There are varying degrees of privilege.
@@specialsause949 thanks for sharing your story. I definitely didn't say anything about being rich. But homeschooling necessitates an investment that the least privileged people cannot afford. What if your wife wasn't an experienced school teacher? The school ought to be able to support your child. Providing an extra teacher to support a single child with severe learning difficulties is considered standard in some countries with less than half of the per capita income of the USA. Public schools are defunded on purpose and homeschooling allows politicians to kick the can down the road.
I agree that not everyone has the privilege to homeschool, but the increase of homeschooling for many groups is a symptom, not a cause, of politicians already "kicking the can down the road." As long as schools are funded by property values, often in gerrymandered districts in cities, the disparity will continue. Living in a small, poor town myself, I don't plan on sacrificing my future kids to the greater good if public schools don't work well for them.
Sorry but a side note . Here in Florida there is actually an annual portfolio review required of registered homeschooling parents. You have to submit your child's work and have it evaluated by a licensed teacher, your alternative is to have your child take the annual standardized testing for their grade level at the nearest public school.,
Is it possible to have that work rubber stamped? Like if an organization like HSLDA managed to get a mole who agrees to check mark anything submitted as valid?
@@retchedperhaps but then it's just as possible for teachers in public school to rubber stamp failing students to the next grade because no child can be left behind for any reason whatsoever
@@ZombiZohm But that was an actual thing. Social promotion as it was called was just that, teachers padding their stats and advancing the kid to the next grade.
I was homeschooled, and I gotta say, I appreciate the disclaimer that homeschool can be great. My mom is a wonderful teacher (currently teaching at a public school), and when I got to high school, I was ahead of most of my peers in reading level and writing skill. So I think it's really sad that homeschool in general has this entirely earned reputation. I can't think of a single issue that could have come from my well-adjusted, law-abiding family having to prove that I was getting an education.
i had some home and mostly public schools. home schooling is a great option for many people. my parents did a cooperative school with friends in the 1st grade. i don't know about the 'proof' thing. maybe our little school worked because we could do what we wanted and didn't haven to teach to any test...
If children learned in small groups with competent, creative, and firm teachers, then had private tutoring when necessary, that might be an excellent solution for many kids. It's been great for me as an adult learning a new language!
@@sdarling6518 that costs massive amounts of money, and Americans cry any time their property taxes go up. We love to talk a big game about supporting education but people don't want to dish out the money and if they do they refuse to spread it to any other district that may have less.
Every person has a social stance, but no social stance should be forced upon anyone. Keep your social bullshit out of schools just like religious bullshit is kept out of schools. No more fucking activist teachers, teaching their beliefs.
@@erichancock6815 And its also clear that many teachers are not qualified to educate children as well since they want to teach a toddler about fucking.
@@erichancock6815 That, too. Even the most loving parents may not be qualified to school their own child, and even if they are, many are obliged to work instead.
My sister and I were homeschooled and loved it. It helped get her out of a system that couldn't handle her ADHD needs, and get me away from bullies. We also live in country where you have to follow an approved curriculum, with actual qualified teachers checking your progress as you go to make sure you're meeting the national standards for mandatory education. I'm a big home-schooling advocate, but not the way America does it.
Before you judge a subject, you must do your own research. This man is lying. Its scary how many people are blindly commenting their opinion based on a mans words. When i tell other parents i homeschool, they always ask why. I have never had a teacher ask me why i homeschool, they always say they are happy to hear it. That sticks with me and helps encourage me despite others opinions.
@@MoreOnPleeez There are real and significant problems with many of the available American home-school curriculums, though. For example, Abeka and ATI curriculums are both severely lacking in many areas and do not meet mandatory requirements for many other countries, although Abeka is definitely superior to ATI. I am actually fairly well researched in this area, as it's of interest to me as a homeschooling advocate.
@@minez5628 Actually many states do regulate it, the laws with homeschool are by state because states have more power in this case thanks to our bill of rights. If you have an issue with it, take it up to congress and push for a bill to change it :)
I was "homeschooled" for a year...my parents had no curriculum, no plan, nothing. I think I did maybe half a dozen "assignments" that year. They all involved reading some article in our old encycolopedia and writing a report on it. I can't recall my parents every bothered to read them and I certainly never got feedback. We didn't even have the means to access the library with any regularity.
I see so many horror stories about homeschooling here, and it just makes me happy that my parents homeschooled me just during HS with a very specific goal in mind. I was dealing with health issues that caused me to be in severe amounts of pain constantly, so they set me up in a homeschooling program. Even so, they made sure that I still took all of the normal exams to grauate HS in my State that one would normally take (which I easily passed), they bought the actual HS curriculums and textbooks for me to use and they even helped me study for the ACT. I even went to college and got a biology degree when my health stabilized. Having that level of structure while dealing with my health problems allowed me to finish school and still set me up for success later in life.
It _is_ good to hear that sometimes, with careful planning and clear intentions, it can work. I hope you're feeling better now than you were then, though - chronic pain is a hard burden to bear.
That's how it works in Belgium, you can homeschool but you need to prove your children are on the same level as others their age, and they need to pass some exams too.
I am betting that most homeschooling is done for legitimate reasons and those parents understand the task they are taking on. Its just funny hearing about the nuts.
Unfortunately it's the horror stories that get attention, so that is what is usually spoken of. I homeschooled my youngest because I just couldn't bear to have yet another of my kids coming home daily all beat up and traumatized because they were the only black kids in an all white school - so no public school for the youngest. He graduated from a difficult college with highest honors in both photography and astrophysics, and was brought back the next year to work as a studio fellow in the visual arts. He made extra money on the side tutoring kids in physics. He never learned to hate math and science - he thinks it's fun, so he's exceptionally good at those subjects. He's way smarter than I am now, which is the ultimate reward for any parent.
I was homeschooled for about three years when my family was moving around a lot. While I do remember some of the curriculum having a slant towards Christianity, I was able to re-join public school in 8th grade and did just fine. I am glad though that it was only a few years and not my entire education, because I remember struggling to just sit and stay focused when you're home all day surrounded by everything you do for fun (video games, hot wheels etc). My parents did go out of their way to find good experiences though. Our science class was with some chemist lady where we would go to her lab and learn stuff with other homeschooled kids, and they set up a group of kids for reading/writing and discussing what we read/wrote. The only times we were home was for subjects like math and social studies. I only add this comment because there's a lot of horror stories, but from my own personal experience they're not all bad. I was pulled out because I was bullied and I hated going to school, so it did help me as I had neighborhood friends that I would still see after school every day. I realize though that I'm an outlier.
You are not nearly as much of an outlier as this video and some of the comments here would have you believe. I spent a good decade or so homeschooling my kids because the public school class sizes didn't allow for the individualized attention my ADHD daughters needed. Our schooling was a combination of lessons from books bought at a teacher's resource store, community based classes like you described, k-12 curriculum, and "field trips." All five of my girls ended up completing high school at a local community college or - in the case of the youngest two - by entering into a public high school. All the girls slipped well into the classroom setting, and all but one of the girls graduated with high honors. That's been similar to the experience of other homeschooling families that I have known. However, whether the kids are homeschooling or attending public school, the end result really depends on how much each family puts into it. The biggest lesson is that education is, or should be, a lifelong experience that does not begin and end in the school building. My children are all grown now, but we (myself included) are still constantly studying and learning new skills. Whether that love of learning comes from public school, private school, or homeschool, THAT is the true test of how successful an education has been.
i was homeschooled until 6th grade, my stepmom was the teacher for me and my sister til then, and while i can't say i remember much or learned much, entering public school was jarring because of how far behind alot of students were compared to me. There was a ton of religious emphasis on my curriculum growing up, and plenty of negatives, but overall i think i was lucky to get out when i did, because of one single factor. Social skills. Had I been homeschooled any longer, it would have been 5x harder to make friends, create a social life, and just generally feel comfortable in those situations. Even entering public school at that age, there were feelings of loneliness and feeling like an outsider, regardless of "education" because i didn't know how to function.
Similar story here, and I even had the same issue with the last parts of the science courses being slanted too heavily towards creationism and Christianity, but other than that the course materials were great. We just skipped the parts of the curriculum that were creationist and replaced those with some custom material. Fortunately I was extremely curious about evolution and stuff, so that part wasn't difficult.
"Having a child does not inherently make you virtuous." "Being a parent doesn't automatically make someone moral and being with a parent doesn't automatically make a child safe." Well said John.
In my case home school was a better option. Low income public schools held me back more than anything. Teachers didn’t care. Some would come to work drunk and pass out at their desk. In my experience public schools are a flawed system.
Being a government lobbied by billionaire elitists does not give you a moral high ground either. The parent has more of a right over their own child more so than the government does. Parenting is the parents job.
@@codyaskew1672 valid, but, 'A is flawed' is not the same as "B is universally better, to the point that we don't even need to check, or think about it"
Replace parent with teacher, and you'll find out the same logic applies to all people, and there is no garrantee that any child will be safe, but lets target homeschoolers. Clean up the schools and society before giving up your freedoms.
We homeschool our daughter in New Jersey, and she is thriving both socially and academically. However, when we asked our local school district what we needed to show as far as the curriculum we planned to use and the work she had done, we were told we didn't need to show anything. We literally could, from K-12, just say "yup, she learned it all" and send her off into the world. That's INSANE. There needs to be standards and metrics to ensure kids are learning what they need to no matter where they are schooled.
But that's how Homeschool Defense wants it. No regulations. So, the whole state and federal governments are afraid of HSLDA. Who will stand up to them?
I've been a teacher for over a decade. I also have a side gig working at a tutoring center where I, among other things, clean up after parents that homeschool by actually teaching their kid. I knew it was bad; I didn't know it was this bad.
It’s usually done and enacted by crazy hormonal moms on both sides of the political spectrum but particularly snake charming Christians. My best friends crazy wife wanted to do it. Thank God for the kids he put his foot down. He’s scared to divorce her because feminazi laws may award her primary custody and then they’re down that rabbit hole. Hats off to the fathers who plant their foot in the asses of moms who want to do this because they’re know it alls.
I was born in 1988 and the only time I have ever stepped foot in a school building was when I was voting and a local elementary school was using its gymnasium as the polling location. My parents "homeschooled" me and my younger sister for our entire lives, and they did because of very reasonable fears for our safety in our school district and not because they were religious nuts or abusive. There was absolutely zero oversight from anybody to ensure we received an adequate education, and despite their best intentions my parents are terrible teachers and were neither prepared for or equipped to take on that job. Up until about the 4th grade everything was basically fine, we did basic science, math, English, history and even though we were using course books that were printed in the 70s (because those were the resources my mom was able to find) they worked. But around the time I turned 10 my family ran into some serious financial trouble that was completely outside our control (USA! USA! USA!) and so both of my parents had to get jobs to support us, and that meant our education was put on the back burner so they could keep a roof over our heads. We were left home alone and it was my job to take care of my sister until our parents got home from work, at which point both of them were so exhausted that they could not teach us. And that carried on until we 'graduated' Neither one of us was at all prepared for the real world, either educationally and socially, and we are both in our 30s and STILL struggling as a result of it. Yes, the American public school system has flaws, and it can and does fail children regularly, but it's better than literally nothing.
And if we focus on funding and improving public schools fewer parents will feel the absolute need to pull their kids for safety, meaning the kids can go to actual school and not become victims of the forces of the economy!
At least you weren't jumped and had the shit kicked out of you weekly for being white by GD gang members, like most of the white kids in my school were.
Even without them going back to work, I have heard countless stories of kids getting to a certain age and their parents were not capable of teaching the curriculum. The ones that learn secondary school material are the ones capable of teaching themselves. There are very few people able to teach advanced material in every subject. Public school should be the default and then any needs or conflicts should be addressed accordingly.
I was homeschooled 12 years. Got my master's degree...went on to be hospital director and manage the transport and care of every Ebola patient in 2014. I know many surgeons, lawyers, architects and even members of Congress who were homeschooled. Did I enjoy it? No. But it is comparable to a private school education for 1/10 the cost.
Thank you! I am thinking of homeschooling my son because the oublic education system sucks here in nyc & he is currently in private school but it is expensive. The owner of the school regularly gives me materials for him to learn at home and I feel confident enough to teach it to him. I dont think its for everyone but it definitely seems to work for some.
3 to 5 years of study to learn to be a teacher, how to communicate with young people, how to present information in a digestible manner, and spending several hours every day preparing lesson plans, correcting homework, coordinating with other teachers... Or 3 to 5 minutes googling "how to homeschool". "Comparable to a private school" get out of here.
As a public high school teacher in Oakland, CA, I can 100% assure you that child abuse is real and we are required by law to report it. It is heartbreaking because many of these kids are so broken by the time they come to my classroom, that I often feel there is nothing I can to do to help them.
If you are a high school teacher and you are encountering abuse on the regular basis doesn't that mean that the reporting that you are required to do is ineffective. You are interacting with kids that have been in the system already for 8 years. How is it that the abuse hasn't been reported well before they get to your class?
My respect to you. I’ve been a school bus driver in the Bay Area for 25 years & have had to report things that I saw. Before mandatory reporting, I had 2 brothers, both in counseling. One day a man met them at the bus instead of their mom & the youngest was terrified to get off the bus with this man. I called my office to contact mom & mom said it was OK!!!!!! That kid held onto the bus frame for dear life. But the man took him. I’ll never forget it. I questioned my supervisor & she said there was nothing we could do if mom says it’s ok. It’ll haunt me forever.
@@rectificarationme too. I'm sorry that happened to you. Home schooling would not have been feasible for my family for a number of reasons but I was abused daily in school and I would have loved an opportunity to feel safer and better supported in a home school environment.
As a public school student in your district, I wish my parents home schooled me. I wouldn't have been surrounded by gangs, drug use, and people getting jumped for their belongings at least once a week after school.
As a homeschool parent, I want more oversight as well. Not even taking into account the abusive families, I have seen enough of curriculums that change the narrative to fit their view and just parents who are just lazy and do not care about their kids education. Maybe if there was more oversight, people wouldn't look down on homeschool kids as much as they do.
As someone who did homeschool later on, my mother was baffled that no one ever showed up or came looking for documents, etc. I ended up just not finishing school a year after starting home-schooling, I would just spend my free-time playing games, etc. While I turned out fine, I do believe that there should be some standard. However, we also have to realize that allot of school curriculum is useless for most kids, there is also a significant argument to be had on how 'useless' school can be. So I don't think we can discuss homeschooling curriculum until we figure out what curriculum matters.
Homeschool kids tend to do well academically. I agree that some oversight would be a good call in some states like mine (MI) where there isn’t any testing or accountability. It’s convenient for us but I can definitely see how that freedom could be abused. Requiring some oversight could also protect homeschool parents. My kids see therapist’s because of some mental disorders and are always hounding us to put them in public school because they’re worried about their education despite our boys being over a grade ahead in most subjects. Good standardized test scores would be an easy way to defend your choice to homeschool.
@@ViolentMLGwhatever you feel are the rights and wrongs of the curriculum, it has been studied, it has been decided in over time by many qualified people. It’s not just thrown together by one unqualified person who uses their own personal biases to decide what to teach and, equally importantly, what not to teach.
I was being bullied in my 4th grade private school so my mom took me out to homeschool. Public school was considered devil worship in her eyes. Pretty much it was me doing independent study with her asking me after she came home from her full time job if I needed help with anything I read. Each time I asked for help it was her reading it straight from the book or spending time herself trying to figure it out. I would either stay at home all day by myself or sit in her car while she worked. I pretty much BS'd my way through school, being graded on things like morals, bible study, attitude, and hygiene. The Christian text books did not help me at all, especially in college. It's great but sad that my biggest accomplishment was graduating with my AA from community college because my education was so lacking and I thrived in a classroom environment with an actual teacher. I'll never homeschool my kids, to my mom's horror. I'm still recovering from the emotional and social aspects of it. Shout out to all the therapists!
The top 50% of Baltimore kids in the 12th grade have a GPA average of less than .7 where 2.0 is a C. It's possible that you would have been in a no win situation.
@@orlock20 They always tell me that, too. The form of homeschooling I got had about a 100% chance of causing emotional damage that I've had to spend my entire adult life repairing. Then people want to point out that, technically, the likelihood of being traumatized in public school is also >0%. However, if you spend large amounts of time in PTSD treatment facilities, you'll notice that people who were homeschooled are MASSIVELY overrepresented.
@@florin529 isnt a place of "just a story" you wrote that to expose how homeschooling is wrong. all the people who put a thumb up to your comment did that for this reason
Well yeah, if you're an idiot or poor to the point you have to work everyday like most people, you shouldn't think you have the ability to homeschool. Your mother was a moron who overstepped her limits as a person. She should have been open to self analysis and come to the realization she wasn't fit to homeschool you. Your situation is your situation.
I happened to be homeschooled by really good parents all the way until I graduated high school. And while I wouldn’t consider my schooling as being overly rigorous, I did graduate college with a 4.0 and started my own construction business when I was 20. That being said, growing up as part of the homeschool community in my town, I’ve seen all types of homeschool families. Some with parents who really shouldn’t be in charge of anyone’s education. And as someone who’s volunteered in schools and with children’s programs since I was a teen, I can say there are a lot of parents who should not be the only influence in their children’s lives. I plan on homeschooling my own children one day, because I’ve experienced how it can be done well. But I know that’s not what’s right for every child and family situation and we need to protect children. Always. Protect our children, always.
I was “homeschooled” when I was a kid because “liberals were indoctrinated me”
When I got to public school a few years later , one of my teachers would spend every lunch period with me & go over basic elementary science, math & grammar skills & history skill’s because she was nervous I didn’t learn them
I still talk to this teacher 18 years later! She basically saved me!
Your teacher is a hero!
Frick that's wholesome.
Hmmm “liberals were indoctrinated me” ?
Not all heroes wear capes!
Of course every teacher is not like the one you had. However, the concern and dedication your teacher showed you are often simply character traits of people who decide to go into the education profession. And that is what it is, by the way, a regulated profession of educated adults who are legally obligated to follow minimum standards of instruction. They're also supposed to demonstrate ethical behavior in their treatment of children. I'm glad you had at least one good teacher in your life. That stuff can be life changing.
I’m an attorney and I was homeschooled and whenever I mention it to people that I meet they always say “oh well you turned out okay so your parents must have done a good job homeschooling you.” I turned out okay DESPITE the weak efforts of my mom to homeschool us. She would throw a textbook at us and tell us to fill it out and there are huge gaps in my schooling to this day. I’m anti-homeschooling and don’t understand why people are so shocked that a completely unregulated industry has so many loopholes in it. Thanks John Oliver for bringing attention to this!
There’s a reason that formal schooling outside of the home became the norm. Most parents, even the well-meaning ones, just don’t have the knowledge, dedication, or time to teach every subject through high school.
I know exactly what you mean. A bright, motivated kid will learn things on their own in spite of awful adults, but there will be serious gaps and blockages that much of society has no understanding of. I'm glad you beat the odds, but nobody should ever have to simply because their parents chose to fail their kids.
100% true. I’m a “bright kid” who loves reading but I don’t like math. I had zero study skills or paper writing experience. I had never taken a test that wasn’t open book. I was frequently frustrated by things I didn’t understand (and couldn’t figure out by reading a book). I HATE when someone says my parents were saints for homeschooling me or that must be why I’m so smart. I would keep my kids home and do online schooling if they asked me, but I would never create a curriculum. I’m not a teacher and I while I can learn along with my kids so I can help with homework, it isn’t fair to them to have me by their main teacher
@@DA-vw1huthank you for the inspiring comment! Im in community college and am scared when i transfer universities this will haunt me and they will not accept me no matter my grades. I had a similar homeschooling experience. Glad you made it.
@@orbeetles I did go to community college. Once I had my associates, I could have transferred. No one cares about transcripts after that. You can totally do it! And I bet you will thrive and absorb knowledge like a sponge. Have a great time
Just started the video, i was fundamental Christian homeschooled in Arizona in the 90s. ZERO oversight, ZERO regulations. Took GED at 16, been trying to catch up with education through UA-cam since then.
Edit: everything he said was real. My "curriculum" was based on the "Proverbs 31 woman" . I did NOT get a good education, never knew I had ADHD, needed glasses, or understood ANYTHING about safe sex which *all* harmed me later in life.
I would also recommend Coursera and EdX, where you can get free access to post-secondary level course lectures and readings, though you would need to create an account. While both have a heavier focus on STEM and business, they have a bunch of stuff for humanities too. EdX also has a lot of AP course programs. For anyone reading this who hasn't heard of them, Coursera was founded by Stanford professors and you can get free access to stuff by "auditing" a course, and you would have unlimited access to the ungraded materials. It tends to have more videos but this varies a lot by instructor and subject. EdX was founded by MIT and you get free access for a certain time (several weeks) after beginning each course and, if there is a paid option, access will then be revoked unless you upgrade. It tends to have more readings and you can actually attempt assignments, which is especially helpful for subjects like programming and math. If there isn't a paid option (if the course is "archived") then you just have unlimited access here too. I've viewed everything from academic STEM stuff like Python, Bioinformatics, and Linear Algebra to professional stuff like EMT basics and Corporate Finance to fun stuff like courses on the bilingual brain or Norse mythology.
So... Basically, you're no worse of than half of the public school students?
@@Gendo3s2k ADHD and needing glasses are often picked up on by teachers. It IS ultimately up to the parents to follow up on it, but teachers make recommendations along those lines frequently. Safe sex is also frequently taught in public schools. "Good education" is obviously a subjective term, but even some of the worst public school educations are probably better than none at all.
@@Gendo3s2k yeah the kids who went to the only high school in my town didn't do much better
@@thatjillgirl teachers aren't doctors, and aren't any more knowledge about ADHD (or eyesight) than the average parent. If a teacher can pick up on it, the parent can as well. If a teacher can miss it, so can a parent.
"Being a parent does not automatically make someone moral, and being with a parent, does not automatically make a child safe" John was SPITTIN'
So why complain about family separation border policy ?
@@deus_vult8111 Please tell us in your infinite wisdom how you know every single one of those families, often seeking asylum, deserve to be separated without any evaluation.
@@randomperson8571 I don’t. And I don’t have to. When I commit a crime and I happen to be with my son the police will detain and arrest me and separate me from my kid. Crossing illegally is a misdemeanor and not to be taken lightly.
@@deus_vult8111 Also--I can understand being anti-immigration. What I cannot comprehend is thinking, "Hell yeah, let's separate terrified small kids from their parents as they're trying to flee dangerous situations and call anyone who reasonably doesn't like this idea a woke liberal! Woohoo!"
Omg ...I have been a teacher for about 7 yrs and I am a mom. I have seen some bad parenting 😢
I was abused and neglected by my parents my entire childhood. I can say with complete confidence that public school saved my life. My teachers weren't even aware of what was happening. Nobody called CPS. But just having somewhere to go spend my days where the focus was teaching me what I needed to know to become independent and free of the abuse someday, the empowerment and hope I found there every day, saved my life. Even just having somewhere to go where I didn't have to be on my guard every second was a life safer.
Ditto! 100% relatable.
I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. I'm wishing you peace, happiness, and strong self-esteem.
Public schools are a complete cultural failure and the news reports are my evidence that public schools are public fools!
What about kids abused at school? I was bullied so bad it was torture. I WISHED my parents could have homeschooled me like they wanted. School was hell for me. Principal wouldn't do anything, and the counselor said my feelings of anxiety were normal and to get over it. It got so bad I started skipping classes and entire days sometimes. Then the counselor went around to all my classes and told the teachers not to accept any makeup work from me, although only 2 listened. I had As and Bs in all but those 2, including A+ in AP Bio. Then the admin were like, well clearly you don't want to be here and then kicked me out (school is only required to age 16 here) and said they'd call the police if I showed back up. My parents tried to intervene through out, including when my books were stolen and vandalized with messages like " kill yourself fat cunt" (even though I wasn't fat, those trolls thought I had anorexia, and they'd try to make it worse). The principal just played it off like it was nothing.
@@cyborgraptor1778 of course. Thats always the argument isn't it? I was abused plenty at school too, as it happens. I'm going to set aside for a moment the implication that there's some sort of dichotomy here where the only way to protect kids who are abused at school is to leave then in the unsupervised, unchecked, uninhibited care of their parents. Thats beyond absurd, but it's also beyond the point.
A kid who is abused at school has recourse. Sure, the system fails. There are schools where you have jaded counselors or no counselors, where admin doesn't care or can't be bothered or is overwhelmed. I get it. I used to teach. But a school has regulations it is bound by. If a counselor won't help, there's someone else you can go to. If admin won't do anything there are steps you can take. Other people you can appeal to, other authority you can bring to bear. All too often people don't, but there are avenues. A child that is abused at home most often doesn't even know they're being abused. Their only way to get help is to have time away from the home where someone they trust can see what they don't, recognize it for what it is, and report it to the appropriate authorities. Even just talk to other kids and find out that their mommies don't say the same sorts of things to them that yours says to you. That their parents don't pick out what they're wearing to school today by criteria like what will cover all the bruises.
I taught for 3 years. And walked away because the current system is appalling in many ways. But one of the few things the system does well is protect children from abuse.
I also went to college in Utah, and met a number of women who ran away from fundamentalist circles. Their girls don't go to public school. They don't watch TV. They don't talk to anyone outside the cult. That's because it's a lot harder to marry a 14 year old off to whoever the prophet gave them to when they go to school and talk to other people. Its a lot harder to get them to cooperate when they know they have rights and there are other ways to live that don't involve being raped by someone old enough to be your grandfather whenever the mood strikes him.
We can protect all the kids. And we should. And the first and by far the most important step in that is recognizing that children are people too, and they have rights of their own, that should be protected. Even from their parents. Especially from their parents. 9 out of 10 times, its mommy and daddy abusing the child. Parents have far too much control over education right now and it's literally killing the kids.
It sucks that you had a hard time at school. I get it. I had someone spit an entire mouthfull of water in my face once right outside my classroom with complete impunity. But at school there are ways to reach out for help that simply don't exist at home.
I was severely bullied in school and was probably one more semester away from un-aliving myself. My mother's offer to homeschool me so that I could complete my education without being tortured daily was a blessing. We were incredibly surprised by the lack of regulation and reporting that we had to do. We made sure that we met all of the public high school standards regardless of the fact that we weren't expected to. Sadly not all homeschool families do.
I am absolutely an advocate for homeschooling being a legal and available option, but there Really needs to be better oversight.
You're and John's take was much more nuanced than what I was expecting. I was just expecting the horror stories. I appreciate you sharing. And. Making me see things in a different way. It's a more complex convo thanI realized.
And yeah. That bullying is traumatic as hell. I hope you're doing okay now!
And as a trans kid in Catholic school, who both bullied to stay in the closet/ was bullied? My parents wondered if us going through the system was the best idea. It's. Just. It was hard for me to give up the few friends I DID have. So I stayed. Even if it wasn't good for me.
But I was in the closet. And had some other ways to be safe. It sounds like your bullies were waaaay worse
@@stoodmuffinpersonal3144 sadly there are plenty of horror stories because of the lack of regulation and standards. I have one friend my own age who was homeschooled by her mother but unfortunately had to do a lot of independent catch up when she came of age (academically and socially speaking). However there are definitely many good reasons why some families may choose that path and that it may be a better option for their children. I currently have a friend who is homeschooling her kids. Her middle child, like me, was bullied because he's "different" (and I don't mean that there's anything wrong with him I just mean that he definitely marches to the beat of his own drum), her older son is severely autistic. This was a tough choice for their family to make because it means that she is unable to work full time and it hurts them financially. However she noticed that both of her sons actually blossomed and showed vast improvement to their emotional health during the pandemic when they did not have to go to public school anymore. It made her decide that it was worth the sacrifice to stay home and teach them so that they did not have to go back to an environment that did not fit their needs (The children were given a choice in the matter). She too absolutely was surprised by the lack of regulation. On one hand she's glad it's easy (on a paperwork level), But on the other she acknowledges that this could way too easily be taken advantage of. I have noticed that most of the people who object strenuously to increasing regulation and standards for homeschooling are the ones who are probably in the most need of oversight.
@@stoodmuffinpersonal3144 also I am doing better these days. I too blossomed once I was removed from that environment. My mom said it was like meeting me all over again as she watched me grow from being afraid of my own shadow. I'm glad that the topic is getting a lot more attention these days because it really needs that attention. When I was a kid everyone told me to "just ignore it or they're jealous of you". Trust me if they don't let you ignore it.
I'm sorry for what you went through as well. I do understand how it was difficult to give up on the few friends you did have and it's not a choice that suits everybody. I hope you are okay as well.
@sadwhitewolf I'm so glad to hear you had a good experience! I did not, and that's why I volunteer with the Coalition for Responsible Home Education--it's run by homeschool alumni and exists to advocate for homeschooled kids and change the laws to create better oversight. Always looking for homeschool alumni that support protections and oversight--the Voices for Reform project provides that opportunity. We don't advocate for homeschooling to be banned, we advocate for reasonable and appropriate protections.
I'm glad that child abuse was such a massive portion of this story. I am a survivor of child abuse and when I was in highschool, my mother told me that having friends & socialization were distracting me from my "roles and responsibilities" as the eldest daughter. She found out through eavesdropping on my private phonecalls that my friends were making me aware of which behaviors of theirs were abusive & teaching me to stand up for myself.
If i had lived in a state that did not require background checks and such to pull a child out of school, i would not have any way of communicating with the people who helped me flee to safety at 18. Homeschooling laws literally protected me from becoming a prisoner in my own home. It gave me the power to leave and access life- saving community and resources.
Yup. Homeschooling laws can make it useful instead of dangerous
All homeschooled children should be required to complete and send in standardized tests every couple years. and if they get too far behind, the parents should lose homeschool privileges.
and all homeschool families children should be required to have regular visits with health clinics to ensure they are healthy and not abused.
Growing up my sisters and I realized we would do better with self motivated learning. However our mom was so abusive that school was literally the only safe place we had. And even then she could show up at any moment. My senior year she made me go to work with her and I almost didn't graduate cause she made me miss 2 finals.
@@uncletrashero I'm actually shocked that isn't already a requirement.
I don't know your story but responsibility is important and I just hope you are not being dupped. Life is not always black and white and parents should be helpful in preparing you for life's drama.
I was a college professor. The students who went to college after homeschooling were all over the map. Some had parents who followed the state curriculum using the state-adopted textbooks, which the schools provided for free. These students could not be distinguished from the other students. But most homeschooled parents didn't do this, so there was a lot of "mislearning," where students had simply learned the wrong way to do things or nonsense "facts." I also had a student complain that her sister took her kids out of school and called it homeschooling but she didn't do it; the kids just did what they wanted to all day. She thought that there would be a state office responsible for putting the kids back in school (the children wanted to go back to school, especially the teenager who was aware of how far behind she was getting). There wasn't. Educational neglect is also child neglect.
A lot of state effort is focused on public schools for curriculum, textbooks, teacher quality, etc. Teachers are evaluated constantly and undergo many hours of professional development each year to maintain their licenses. Children are tested each year, and even though there are problems with so much testing, at least the public is informed on how well the schools are doing. Experts are brought in to provide services for children with disabilities; my son, who is hearing impaired, had speech pathologists who worked with him intensively and successfully for years. My niece was sexually abused by her stepfather when she was six--it was teachers who noticed and called in CPS. None of that would happen in homeschooling.
The idea that homeschooling parents can do anything they want without supervision and regulation is horrendous. The fact they don't need to have an education themselves or can just skip over things like math because they don't know it is also horrendous. Or that they can purchase curricula that teach nonsense like dinosaurs and people co-existing is terrible. And it's the children who are cheated because they may be totally unprepared for adult life.
I'm german. Here homeschooling is just outright banned. And we take this ban VERY serious. So serious that parents can lose custody of their child if they don't send their child to school. Though it seldom comes to this, usually even the most batshit insane parents that were unreceptive to more gentle persuasion fold when this card is finally played.
With all due respect, you never saw high school students who were killed in high school in your college classes and that happens in public (and private) schools. I don't blame parents for wanting to keep their kids safe in the only developed nation in the world where it's expected that children will experience violence in school
With all due respect, you appear to be unaware of the vast number of rotten teachers, lousy educators and psychologically abusive. Mean and nasty.
@@nakedpnkmoleratYes, those exist. However, that is a flaw of the public school system not a feature. A flaw that needs to be fixed. There is a myriad of possible ways to fix something like this. The political problem with pretty much all of them is that they will cost money. And some will probably cost quite a lot of money. And if there is anything that the political elite in the USA hates above else than it's investing money in the education system.
@@fark69you also don't see the children killed by their family in college.
I sobbed while watching this. As a former homeschooled child, thank you John Oliver for sharing our story to the world. When I was young, I wish I knew there was a place for me to report child abuse from my parents, but obviously my parents never told me they existed. This is an ongoing issue not just in America, but across the globe. We need common sense regulations that protect homeschooled children from neglect and abuse.
I'm the lobbyist at the organization mentioned in the segment that's fighting for common-sense reform-- Coalition for Responsible Home Education. We're founded and run by homeschool alumni, and we always center the voices of other alum. If you'd like to get involved in fighting for better laws, check us out! I'd love to have you on the team.
Homeschooling wasn’t a thing when I was growing up. From my perspective, it was older people talking about homeschooling their kids. Now we get to hear from the kids. Thank you for sharing your story.
@@samanthafield8754ooh yay, lobbyists 🤢
We need common sense regulations to protect all kids. I had surgeries in my 50s to fix damage done to me by my mom when I was a teenager - and I went to public school. When the school personnel noticed I was becoming more and more depressed they helped get me into a private school, then they went to drugging me, which made things worse. None of it helped because the cause was never addressed. The one thing no one did was look at my mom because she was the local accountant and highly respected.
It's made worse if kids have to have a car to socialize with others away from home, or have to depend on their parents to schedule to drive them anywhere.
As a child who was homeschooled by an abusive parent, this story hits home. Thank you, John Oliver and everyone at Last Week Tonight. This country would be a lot better if we could all accept that children are people, not parental property, and they deserve rights, too.
Hope things are looking up for you now!!!
I’ve heard of parents who claim they are homeschooling but in reality they’re doing nothing.
@@s70driver2005 They are, but there are still countless children in my former situation, and things aren't looking up.
You might appreciate the work @Responsiblehomeschoolingorg has been doing
Should have went public schooling, you payed for it in taxes.
I was homeschooled from age 5 until 18. Went to one of the more prestigious universities in the USA through PhD. I got a great job out of school and am happily married. As John Oliver said, there is a very high ceiling, but he’s right that there also is no bottom. The lack of regulation did allow my parents to tailor a schedule allowing me to exceed expectations both in academics and extracurriculars, but on the other side, there’s others who are completely neglected.
As a fellow homeschooled kid, I think this is definitely the right idea. I really don't get the impulse to make it totally unregulated even if too much red tape is a possibility that should be avoided.
This was my experience as well. I became disabled my first year of college and never completed due to cost and accessibility, but I have a very solid k-12 education thanks to determined parents.
This is the kind of thing we’re aiming for with our family. We’re able to accelerate in places, and take extra time in others. Public school doesn’t accommodate that at all. But HSLDA isn’t about that, it’s about destroying the entire public school system and pushing evangelical Christian nationalism.
There's no bottom in public school either. They pass students who can't read, ignore students who are getting hurt, and let kids fail until they age out at 18. That's how it's been for years here in Tennessee.
@cs5384 this. My wife is a teacher and after teaching in shitty public schools where they are "strongly encouraged" to pass functionally illiterate 7th graders she wants to homeschool.
What's so frustrating about any conversation about "parents' rights" is that it almost universally ignores that children are people and they have (or should have) rights too. Children have a right to an adequate and appropriate education, and their parents should not have the right to deprive them of that.
Who should have dominion over the child. The government? Or their parent? Be careful how you answer, you may find yourself on the same side as the German mustache man.
@@nicoleterry5105 I was abused by parents who literally called me a slave and told me they owned me and could do whatever they wanted to me (and treated me like that too), so I have strong opinions on this. Number one, it shouldn't be about dominion regardless. Nobody should have dominion over another human being. It's called care. Number two, the parent's RESPONSIBILITY, not right, is to care for their child. Number three, if the parent fails in that responsibility, it's the government's role to step in. In an ideal world, that's how it should work. But this isn't an ideal world. At the very least, at least people are talking about it, that's something.
@@nicoleterry5105 No one should have "dominion" over anyone. People are not property.
In Canada there is no such thing as parental rights in the law but we do specifically have children's rights with recognition of their vulnerability and everyone's responsibility to their welfare.
Only so long as your educators are not lying to you
Former homeschool kid here. My mother was SEVERELY mentally ill - she was hospitalized several times, made multiple suicide attempts (a few in front of me) and a handful of (undocumented) murder attempts while in the throes of hallucinations, and she was able to homeschool us. The homeschool group leader knew about her mental health issues and did not or could not forbid it. Absolutely insane. We were poorly educated and poorly socialized and had no idea our situation was not normal.
Wow mlau, really sorry to hear that...I hope you've been able to adjust some...to heal at least a little, but that's likely going to follow you for life, huh? Developing in childhood is so important to adulthoot...as if life isn't hard enough, not being given a fair chance from the get-go is such a travesty. I sure hope you have had relationship enough with your siblings to be able to support each other. My heart goes out to you...I hope you've found peace and love in your life.
My mother emotionally abused, abandoned and neglected me as she was as a child. I am SO glad she didn't homeschool me as she was a teacher herself.
Holy shit. I’m so sorry that happened to you.
Wow, thanks folks. Honestly my situation could have been worse. My mother was mostly just neglectful and inconsistent and very occasionally frightening. Day to day she was mostly depressed and unresponsive with occasional fits of mania that led to field trips and periods of socializing. She never beat us and had good intentions, she was just too mentally ill and religiously brainwashed to be a good teacher or mom. Especially to already traumatized kids.
We're all doing pretty well now. I became the first person in my family to get a master's degree and I have a loving husband. I've been in therapy for years now and gave up religion and have way less fear and shame in my life. My mom is still mentally ill and causes chaos in our lives regularly but she's also manipulative and charismatic when not depressed or delusional so she keeps avoiding conservatorship. Mental health care for the truly ill in this country is dysfunctional and causes no end of harm and trauma to those caught in the cycle.
I was homeschooled by an abusive family in a completely unregulated state. Spent all of my teenage years in isolation, unable to escape. I became suicidal and repeatedly begged my parents to let me get psychiatric help, but they told me I just needed to pray to get better. The only thing that saved my life was running away once I was over the age of majority.
Hearing about the HSLDA literally gave me flashbacks to that time. I'm remembering now how when Raylee's Law was being proposed, I read about it in the HSLDA member magazine being this huge violation of freedom. I never even knew what it was actually for until today.
I hope you are receiving the support you need - it’s what we all need! Keep safe & know you not alone 💕Please reach out
Glad to know you got away
Hope you can find the help you most likely need
Love from Texas
I´m sorry if my questions are inappropriate, and you should feel completely free to not answer any of them, but I am really interested in learning more about your situation. The notion of them telling you that you just needed to pray to get better. What do you think was going on in their mind? What were they thinking? Do you think they genuinely thought it would work, or do you think it was just manipulation? Or something else entirely? Again, don´t answer if you don´t want to.
I’m so sorry that happened to you, and I’m happy you got away. I hope you’ve learned how to reach out for help and resources and care.
I have so much love and compassion for you, and I wish I could hug you. I was there with you, miles apart, crying with you in isolation. I hope one day to fully heal, and I hope that you can too.
"Having a child does not inherently make you virtuous."
We will fix a lot of society's problems by understanding this deeply.
so true.....I have met so many selfish, rude, and just whacko parents..... that quote should be everywhere
13 public high schools
not 1 proficient math student.
Billions in their budget, largest ever. Now what. Oh yeah, school shootings.
We will fix a lot of societal problems by understanding the proper role of government.
ua-cam.com/video/t_MuU6Ryogg/v-deo.htmlsi=B1zebP21ABU7Xg2Y
The thing is a lot of people have children for themselves and not for the child, or even by accident. And then the very type of people who would be a good responsible parent both emotionally and financially are choosing to have less kids. It's honestly concerning and we might need to start considering some sort of government financial incentive to promote having stable children like many other countries japan/argentina/germany etc. The current cost of living/housing makes it much less attractive for younger people to have children, and the financial pressure has been really bad for dating and relationships in general for both men and women. It's becoming more and more like a business
@@QMS9224 America's economy much prefers low-educated worker-bee types that can be used up and replaced like parts in a machine. None of its on accident.
That Bitch saying, "we want our kid to be a wonderful nazi",
Had me rolling dude
WTF is wrong with Christians or just Americans, in general
I was homeschooled in Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri and Alabama. I had to teach myself everything, starting at age 11. The highest level math work book I was ever given was division, and my parents didn't actually make me use it (I didn't even know textbooks or teachers guides were a thing until I was an adult). My parents were somehow under the impression that if you have good literature in the environment that will teach your kids everything they need to know by osmosis or something. I had to teach myself enough math and science to barely pass the GED so I could go to community college. I won't speak to minority families that choose it as that's not the background I'm from, but homeschooling NEEDS to be regulated. Otherwise it's ripe for educational neglect and child labor (yes, child labor).
It is child labor to use children as the homemaker, instead of going out in the World and learning for 6 hours a day
I barely passed the GED after 5 years of high school.... I had all the wrong credits so I couldn't graduate. I learned everything so late in life because of un-schooling. It was isolating and hard. And it's because I'm bad at taking tests/and posting online lol... Not actually stupid. Bad under pressure because of being a first grade drop out. My teacher told me to quit if I didn't like school. So I did. Kinda young to be deciding that in first grade.
I was homeschooled k-12. I grew up in religious extremism. For school we had classical music time, handwriting, bible, math and chores, with most time spent on chores. I was so lucky that i also had access to the internet. Crash course and online education gave me a way out. I’m now working on my PhD in molecular biology. It hurts that my mom takes credit for my success after all i had to do on my own as a child to survive the abuse and neglect my siblings and I went through.
homeschoolers fucking love cursive and classical music lmao
Parental delusions 🙄
Congratulations on your stamina and success!
@@bonniebrush94 thank you! I’m in my mid 20s now and I’m still stumbling into situations common for others but completely new to me. Stamina is such a good word for it!
I don't know you, but I'm so happy for you that you were able to educate yourself and continue on to college. You should be very proud of yourself. I hope your siblings are doing well in life too, despite their upbringing.
As someone who was put through exactly this, thank you for covering this. Seriously, it means the world to me.
My father is a preacher, and my parents were abusive. They hid behind the wall of homeschooling to avoid any consequences.
I’m so sorry for what you went through. It’s even another layer of disgusting because preachers/pastors are required to be mandated reporters. You deserved better. ❤
That's horrible. Just know that family trees don't need to be organic, the branches you graft are valid.
If your family is awful, cut those branches from the tree and graft some new friends in their place. Nobody should be putting up with abuse, regardless of the source.
It really sucks. Your parents have so much control over your life, you go to anyone and risk retaliation.
...and is it one of those non-denominational "churches"?
I hope you were able to get away from them and now live a wonderful life of fun and joy - you deserve the world!
I was pulled out of school after the 4th grade by my abusive mother. She kept me in isolation for nearly 7 years, and did not homeschool me. Had this been noticed, it would have saved me from the trauma I endured. It stunted not only my educational growth, but my social growth. I thank god for the internet because that’s how I managed to escape at 16. But not every kid figures out a way to get help when they aren’t in public school.
What the actual fuck??? How are you doing now?
This is the story of my younger half sister. She didn't get to leave the house for 9 years. I wish y'all could talk because it's one thing I know I'll never understand how truly awful it was since I lived with my dad.
Same
@@anna-fleurfarnsworth104 i'm doing good actually! graduated high school a couple years later, and i am currently a student at one of the top 5 universities in the world. happy endings exist, thankfully!
@@gracew8548 always open to a convo! i am so proud of your sister, and i hope you don't blame yourself in any way.
As a homeschool parent, I would welcome regular educational check-ins. Extra resources and accountibilty is always helpful.
Excuse me- are helpful.
I adopted 3 kids from foster care, the oldest was 8 and almost done with grade 3. He started grade 4, it was a weekend and I found a math sheet website and printed off and gave it to him, he couldn’t do it, I worked backwards and ended up at the kindergarten level. I knew that while they were in care he would be removed from school due to behaviour. The next day when I picked him up from school, I told the teacher I was pulling him out of school. I have never seen such a look of relief in my life. 2 hours a day, we did Korean math, hooked on phonics, got some science books from kindergarten to grade 5. I put him back into school for grade 5. His behaviour improved as he could finally participate in the class. He told me when he was in grade 10, that the stuff I taught him took through grade 10. I did so he didn’t think he was dumb, as he wasn’t, he was just a victim of the foster system.
@@lr9983She's an awesome mother.
What is Korean math?
@@Nobunagawa it's like regular maths, but exquisitely choreographed
@@HerrCron Yeah, it's taught by YG enterprises.
That's how homeschooling is suppose to be. Unfortunately, I see the religious aspect being the major factor in why people are homeschooled, and having lots of free labor around the house by having an absurd amount of children.
My younger brother struggled with severe depression and social anxiety. Being in school took it out of him every day and it got so bad that one night he came to our mom asking to be taken to the hospital for a psych hold. Shortly after he and my mom agreed to take him out of school and to put him into an online program. Because of this, he managed to complete his education and get a GED, got to go to a music school in the evenings to hone his music talents (guitar, bass, keyboard, drums, singing, & more) and has performed at tons of local gigs since.
Homeschooling isn't for everyone but when it works, it WORKS.
I'm glad he's doing so well! Homeschooling is wonderful for kids who have difficulty fitting in, and who have supportive parents and good academic resources.
That is not homeschooling. That is online high school.
Definitely luck is involved here. TONS of luck.
online school done in the home is not homeschooling. what kind of logic is that? your read her whole comment and that is the first felling you got. I hope you have just a wonderful day.@@allisonfisher8063
That's fine, but would that have happened any less if the state checked on his progress and safety?
Or a school board or whatever?
Former homeschooled evangelical kid from Oklahoma here: thank you for this.
I ended up relatively unscathed but I witnessed a huge variety of questionable treatment of fellow homeschooled kids over the years. And the political leanings of some of those families was frightening to say the least. Kids are being traumatized, brainwashed and neglected and are essentially invisible to anyone who can help them. It’s the easiest way to raise a generation of obedient voters, so the HSLDA knows what its doing.
It’s kind of the most blatant form of ‘no oversight’ that we have in America, which is absolutely disgusting when you remember that we’re talking about CHILDREN.
unsurprisingly those that have decried child indoctrination the loudest are actually protecting their brand of indoctrination. It's free thinking that they oppose the most.
*This is the very definition of GROOMING.*
And you don't hear the irony when you say that it creates a new generation of obedient voters? Precisely what do you think the public school system is designed to do? And that's to say nothing of shows like this.
@@marklesniak8038 what the hell are you talking about ...public schools do NOT teach kids to be obedient voters...lol for who....wow have a feeling you were homeschool by God go to your local library and educate yourself
My parents abused the hell out of me, and going to public school was the only reason I didn't take my own life - I had friends to give me hope each and every day, despite the horrors I knew I was going home to... if I had been 'homeschooled'? I wouldn't be here today. All during Covid I couldn't stop feeling sick, thinking about if I had been a kid during that time, and had been stuck with my narcissist stepmother during that time...and I was so ill thinking about all of the poor kids being abused at home, with no escape, but this information in this video...is... scary. Horrifying.
If you had been homeschooled you also would have had time for many extracurricular activities outside the home don't pretend homeschooling has anything to do with your crappy parents
Wow. Tone deaf aren’t you
@@ZombiZohmNon sequitur
As someone who was homeschooled and loved it, I am a big supporter of there being regulations on homeschooling. Why? Because I actually knew a family that used homeschooling as a cover for abuse, and I knew another family that taught their daughters that they should only be wives and mothers and taught them accordingly, and even in my relatively robust homeschool education, I was still taught young earth creationism because my evangelical mother literally didn't know better and was getting text book recommendations from other homeschool families she trusted, and I'd probably still believe in it today had I not ended up becoming wildly curious about science down the road. Wanting there to be regulations kind of makes the community I grew up with view me as something of a traitor, but if I was seeing so many problems in my very limited circle, I can only imagine what kind of problems there are all over the country. (Or, of course, watch this video.)
Sorry but getting indoctrinated with young earth creationism by an "evangelical mother who literally didn't know better" is imho far from a "relatively robust education". For me as a European this sounds totally crazy! 😳😱
But good for you that you educated yourself! 👍
Yea, it "being able to be done well" doesn't mean there shouldn't be regulations and oversight to make sure it doesn't go wrong.
I was also homeschooled and loved it, I was lucky though because my dad was a nuclear physicist and my mom was all about living off the land, so I got all the good science and cooking.
@@handgun559 Yeah, because self-regulation works so well in so many other fields
I completely agree. I spent my last two years of middle school being homeschooled, and that was wonderful because I was self-motivated and the curriculum we used was rigorous. Others in our co-op, though, not so much. Pretty much every other student I met was there because of religious reasons. Furthermore, one time at our weekly meeting, we had a horticulture class that took us outside to look at the landscaping, and one parent said that was all the science her kids needed that week. I am highly in favor of homeschooled kids needing to pass some basic requirements to continue. John Oliver said it well, it has a high ceiling but a non-existent floor.
I was one of these homeschool kids. I never learned anything. My school schedule, when I had one, was reading the bible or doing a chapter of one of those Christian textbooks. Most of them, decades out of date because my mom bought them second-hand. When I complained about this, she signed me up for an online school. She never checked in on me, made a schedule, or even helped me with my work. She only scolded me when it didn't get done. I regret not studying harder. But I was only 12 when it all started, so I didn't know much better. By the time high school came around, I was so lonely I became severely depressed. I had no sports, no extracurricular activities, and no friends. My family had moved away from our extended family so I couldn't even get any companionship from my grandparents. I had no siblings at the time either. It was me, my mom, and my dad. I cannot begin to describe how lonely and how scarring it is to spend 6 years all alone, with nothing but historically inaccurate textbooks to keep you company. Especially since my mom actually stopped bothering to buy new ones. I was still using the same curriculum from when I was 12. Recently, I studied extremely hard on Khan Academy. Starting from their 7th grade curriculum and onwards, I brought myself up to speed and took the ASVAB. I got a 94/99. My parents take credit for my score, saying that I get my intelligence from my dad. They did nothing. I did everything. I'm a survivor of this bullshit. I pushed through and studied on my own, but no one should have to go through what I did. We need to fix the regulation of homeschooling. It's the perfect abuse tactic. Fuck parents rights. A child's right to a proper education is so much more important.
You are a badass.
We are all proud of you!
That’s amazing! I wish you all the best and future success in whatever your endeavors are.
Your experience sounds eerily similar to my own, in every area, even the part about working your ass off to get good grades later on and parents taking credit for your hard work. Either way, good job on rising above the setback you went through, I know it's not easy at all. I look at what I went through as something to NOT put my future children through.
"They did nothing. I did everything." - Damn right you did. You owe them nothing. Keep it up!
When I was about eight years old, my cousin came to live with us because she was pregnant at age 16 and her mother had various health issues that prevented her from being able to care for her properly at that time. She had been home schooled for a few years, at that point, and I don't think anyone in my family had been aware of just how neglected she was. Her mom wasn't a bad person, just struggling with health issues that made it hard for her to have any routine in their daily lives, much less home schooling. She'd actually taken her out of school because they lived pretty far out in the country and actually getting her to and from school was not something she could handle. Many of our relatives protested taking her out of school, knowing her mom was struggling, but she was absolutely certain the program she'd signed up for would work for them. My mom happened to be taking a few years off after leaving the military at that time and took on her care and education in a serious way. My cousin could read at my reading level and actually borrowed a lot of books from me when my mom told her she had to read for x amount of time a day. I remember my mom going through the absolute fortune of home schooling books she bought and quizzing my cousin on things so she got an idea of where her knowledge level was and there were several that I knew the answers to and she did not, so she was about 8 years behind in some things. It took a ridiculous amount of effort on my mom's part to get my cousin up to speed, but they actually did manage to get her to a point where she could attend a program for kids like her who were very behind and get them into summer school and evening classes so they could graduate on time. And she did. She graduated on time and was very happy about it.
My mom then went to work for our school district and all of the times she had to report potential abuse or help a student with basic things like having a toothbrush and toothpaste to brush their teeth was pretty shocking. When we went school supply shopping, my mom would also stock up on basic hygiene supplies and clothes to give to kids who were obviously struggling with basic needs and things like having clean clothes that fit properly and weren't falling apart. She, like many teachers and other school staff, bought these things with her own money and gave them out without question or judgement so that the kids who were struggling would know they could ask for help. Knowing how easily my cousin slipped through the cracks and how many kids do end up needing that type of help is honestly pretty terrifying, when I think about it.
More veteran women should go into teacher.
Wow. Your mom is the pinnacle of selflessness. Such a great outcome.
Especially in a country like America. No child should be without basic necessities.
But her mom WAS a bad person. She neglected her child to the point she didn't even know how her own body worked at 16 years old.
Sounds like a healthy society.
The irony of Henry Kissinger literally dying one month after this episode got posted is amazing 💀😂
He had variations of the joke, multiple times a season, for like 5 years.
At some point either the show was going to be cancelled before Kissinger died, or the timing was going to work out.
BINGO!
@@smalltime0 That's very true, but it's still funny to see when it happened.
Even though I was bullied in school, school was my safe haven from home. None of my teachers acknowledged the signs or reported. I have been a kindergarten teacher for four years now. One reason is because I want to be the person I desperately needed when I was little. I am my students' safe haven and they will feel loved, capable, valued and respected in our class. I teach them that it is unacceptable for anyone to hurt them.
In the past, one of my students told me they missed school because, "mom hit me with a spatula and she didn't want you to see my face until it gets better." Parents, your kids open up to people they trust. Respect your babies. Do the work to break the cycle of abuse.
I have been physically abused by students every school year. I have/had students who threatened my life. It is traumatic for me. I have lifelong injuries now. The nerve damage in my back has changed my quality of life. I show up for all kids. I was injured protecting the kids. Stop hurting your babies because you are hurting.
Thank you. As another person who relied on school to feel safe, my teachers were my role models and helped me through hell. Your kids are too little to tell you but you are making an impact.
damn lucky asian parent, they lucky they live in asia
Extremely touching post, but a bit confusing near the end... you've been physically abused by kindergartners who threatened your life?! 🤔
@@FakingANerve. I use to work with preschoolers (3 to 4) most were sweet and had fun! But every year we had two to three kids who kicked, slapped and spit on us and their fellow friends, usually they had emotional issues like being foster kids or alcohol fetus syndrome
@@Szahra87 While I appreciate your input, I still don't see how Pre-K or kindergarten students can incur lifelong spinal injuries, or can imagine them issuing viable threats to a teacher's life.
I was in a terribly abusive home where I was locked in my room for weeks at a time. The ONLY thing that saved me was the fact that I had to go to school. It was my only opportunity to interact with others and to get away from the horror that was my home life. I know people who have had wonderful experiences with homeschooling, and I support it - with supervision. But the safety element of having other people involved in a child’s life should be maintained.
Thats horrible and im so sorry for you.
Otoh public school teachers fuck kids regularly so thats not always the safest option either
PS don't provide that. A mother(5 kids) allowed her BF to beat her kids. The oldest girl ran away, the youngest girl lived with her father's mother, he beat one of the boys to death, and the mom and BF left them there and moved to another place. Neighbors would see the boys both under 13 and give them food but they would only eat pizza candy and packaged food because they thought they would be poisoned. When the cop found them the boy that was killed was a skeleton it had been a year. All those kids should have been in school why were there no reports by PS. Many cases the school are also abusing kids. What is needed is community people looking out for others that's what will stop abuse not PS
Public schools have a lot of sexual abuse.
Homeschooling can be an inventive, creative choice for many parents. However, it can also be a vehicle for subterfuge for parents with more nefarious motives, such as hiding child abuse in the home. I'm truly sorry that you experienced such trauma at an early age, and I'm glad the public school system gave you at least some relief from your abusive home situation.
I lived a similar childhood. I was always grounded to my room. I could tell who got home from the sound of them walking.
My homeschooling experience was a nightmare. I had to relearn everything as an adult because the curriculum was so religiously eschewed. Between that and the audacity my parents had to believe they could teach 5 kids an education they didn’t even finish themselves…and well I’m sure you can imagine how that went.
I knew a woman who homeschooled her children, and they seem to bee success stories; but the lady was kinda'odd when she heard of others' abilities or performances beecause HER CHILDREN couldn't do that at that age. I mean, in a class of 2, your kids are always going to bee the top of the class; but that doesn't mean they'd still bee top in a class of 400 students.
@@waitz001 be, not bee.
*skewed skew (pronounced skyoo) - to bias, distort, tilt in a certain direction
Whereas eschew (eh-shoo) means to avoid or side-step something.
Thx for sharing. Crazy.
In my country, it's mandatory for children to go to schools and I doubt that homeschooling even exists other than in case of serious medical conditions that would deny the child the ability to attend school. Personally, homeschooling doesn't make sense from educational perspective, even if you fully devote to educate your child according to the regular school programs. Even if you use the mandated books, a parent isn't a substitute for a teacher especially when teachers specialise with their education for the purpose of teaching a single subject to students. I doubt that even a well educated parent can substitute every subject teacher other than maybe for the early part of primary school. Schools exist for a reason, if anyone could teach everything, people wouldn't study to be teachers. Homeschooling should only exist in case a student isn't able to attend school or attendance does more harm than good as with extreme cases of bullying. Not for you to think you could teach your child whatever you want and basically educationally maim him/her in the future.
@@GrantLeeEdwardsGo easy on him - he was homeschooled.
I used to teach martial arts to schools. We had a large hall and each day a different school would bus their kids in. Thursday were the homeschool kids. They were completely bereft of certain skills. None of them had any idea what "form a line" meant. Even if you physically placed them in a spot in line, the second you let go of them, they would simply follow you. Each of them thought that everything the teachers said was a personal conversation with them. Imagine 20 kids all just telling you whatever popped into their heads at any moment while you are trying to instruct all of them.
They aren't trained monkeys. That's actually awesome. Too bad you are such a horrible teacher that you judge children so harshly for being there to LEARN. WTH.
Good holy Jesus that sounds like a nightmare😬 those poor kids. it’s safe to say that some of them aren’t going to grow up to be well adjusted adults
That makes me feel really sorry for those kids and everybody who happens to be their boss or co-worker later in life. They miss out on so much socialization skills when they're brought up without regular contact to other people than their parents. Sounds like they will struggle in every social situation that requires coordination among a group. Reading the room, the group dynamics and reacting accordingly so important, not just to fit in, but also to stand out for the right reasons, being a leader and a compassionate friend etc.
As someone who was homeschooled from 3rd to 9th grade, homeschooling can be a really complex issue. On one hand, me and my siblings were pulled out of school due to the schools mistreatment of my disabled sister, and with my mom being a former teacher, we were able to get a better education than we would have if we were still in public school in our area. I was able to skip a grade, which I am very grateful for. However, it might have been the worst few years of my life. I was isolated from anyone other than my family, and with no 3rd party adults like teachers who are mandatory reporters of child abuse, I suffered physical abuse for years that would have otherwise been reported. I believe that homeschooling can be a great thing, but it is imperative that there are more regulations and check ups with homeschooling families, as it is scarily easy for abused or neglected kids to fall through the cracks as things are now.
Those aren't cracks if they were put there on purpose. Your safety was sacrificed by the Moral Majority.
Thank you for sharing this. I'm sorry that happened to you. Insights from those who actuallt experienced it are very important.
I went to public school. My parents abused me mentally, emotionally, and physically basically daily. They're a well established middle class couple who made sure they were involved heavily in my schools and activities. Because of that, they were able to destroy any credibility I had with those educators.
Every time I'd tell teachers or coaches, (because I got grounded for weeks on any grade lower that a b, I had to be involved in multiple sports, band, singing lessons, and student council so there were a lot of people that could have helped) no one would help me because they never took me seriously because my parents had already prepped them by telling lies about me.
My mom would scream at me until she pissed my dad off enough he would come and choke me out and beat my ass until he felt guilty and told me to call the cops, which seemed like a dare I wasn't ever brave enough to take.
I am now a very pissed off angry 35 year old woman who isn't afraid of men three times her size because I've been fighting them since I was 8. And as a mother myself now, as long as my kids are trying their best and getting their work in, I could care less about their grades. I hope to end all of the abuse cycles with me.
I also was severely abused, and I was afraid to have kids because of the crap I had heard about abused people being more likely to abuse others. I've raised two amazing young men who are caring, compassionate, and honorable. I just did the opposite of what had been modeled to me at every opportunity, and I treated them how I wished I'd been treated. You're doing great, and your kids will be fine. Virtual hugs your way. @@kassassin_brahgawk
We home schooled our kids but made sure they were well socialized (4h among many other things). In Maryland, if you don't register under a homeschooling "umbrella organization" which provides a curriculum and "oversight", you had to meet with someone from the county public school system once or twice per year. You had to bring in samples of schoolwork and some texts representing what you were teaching. Note that that list doesn't include bringing the actual children. Public school funding is always tight, so as little effort as possible was put into monitoring home schooling. One lady would rush to meet the county requirements. She met with a few dozen households and told us that we were the only ones that actually brought the kids to meet her. A lot of the others apparently were religious families that didn't want any external exposure corrupting their kids. Simply requiring all home schooled kids to meet with a county worker twice per year for a hour would catch at least some of those mistreating their kids.
I'm so sorry for what you had to go through. :(
“Lobbying” is a term we use to soften what is bribery. We need to stop using that term and unnormalize buying legislation
Or maybe we should un-normalize acting like lobbyism is a good thing
@@_ee75 1) making it illigal would do just that.
2) moral arguemnts dont matter to the dipsh*ts ruling our countrys.
3) First step before anything else is to take the power to investigate and "punish" the wrongdoing of government members/politicians AWAY FROM THE GOVERNMENT!
Because as long as they hold the power to police themselfs... guess what? NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.
Poetry.
@@_ee75 There is some lobbying that is good. As an example, in Oregon, a high school girl became friends with a holocaust survivor, and through that friendship, they lobbied to change Oregon law to require studying the holocaust, whereas previously it was not required. There was no big corporations or lavish spending here. But, it still was lobbying.
@@_ee75on paper it's at worst morally neutral. Lobbying is just advocating your local government for a specific issue
Unfortunately, in practice it's just become legalized bribery
The pause between "Wonderful" and "Nazi" was so perfectly timed. She KNEW what she was saying, KNEW what people would think, had to FULL PAUSE TO SAY IT, and still went ahead with it. In a movie or stand-up it would be a comedic pause, followed by a perfect subversion of expectations. Tragedy and comedy truly are two sides of the same coin.
Well put! Comedy is almost always at the expense of someone or something. There is, of course, a difference between being light-hearted about it, or being downright mean to someone. But I have no issues being mean to a nazi. Especially when she's indoctrinating her own kids.
"Comedy = Tragedy + Time" - Portal 2 soundtrack
I was homeschooled from kindergarten-12th and thankfully my mom was dedicated to me learning the same, if not more than kids in public schools. I had standardized tests and all my siblings and I got 28 or higher on the ACT. She made sure we all went to college and I’m very thankful. Home schooling can be a great way to teach your child, if you actually try and use good curriculum. That being said, I know a lot of my friends from homeschooled groups did not have the same teaching. Some were years behind in math, and others just worked and faked their grades. I’m pro homeschooling, but there are definitely problems with it.
I knew one couple who moved into my area from another stat that had their kids homeschooled because they were two years ahead of their cohorts. They obtained a curriculum from their school district and had the state assess their children regularly. That is homeschooling done right, which is rare.
Now if only that was what homeschooling advocates ACTUALLY wanted.....
I was home schooled through this neat home school co-op group. They had a curriculum, meet-ups, we did field trips, and were actually little schools. This program was overseen by the department of education, and it was great. You got the social/educational benefit of public school, with all the benefits of homeschool.
"Neat!"
Homeschooling coops are very different from individual parents, and they also have a wide range. Some are fanrastic, and some are cult-ish to say the least.
And was that in a state Oliver lying accused of having no or little oversight?
@@rolandwoltman7835 There is a difference between required oversight / registration for all homeschooled kids in a state, as compared to voluntary / opt-in programs.
@@rolandwoltman7835 Lying? It's not lying that they have no or little oversight. It's simple facts you can easily look up. That some people do a better job of homeschooling does not mean they are doing so because good oversight exists that makes them do that. They're doing it because they want to go above and beyond for their kids.
I was "homeschooled" in high school. My parents basically gave me textbooks and expected me not only to teach myself but to grade myself. I spent four years doing effectively nothing but reading for fun and writing anime fanfic, and lying about what I was doing.
Hey mood. I was homeschooled 4th-7th grade. I knew where they kept the answer books so I just waited until they were distracted and wrote down all the answers.
So, what are you doing for a job now?
@@TheAccidentalViking She is a Harvard professor.
Sounds similar to a lot of progress t high school experience
Sounds like perfect qualifications for a republican candidate, kind of sound overqualified in comparison to trump.
I grew up in Canada but my two younger brothers were "homeschooled" for a year and it had such damaging, long lasting effects. The one brother was in Gr. 4 and the other was in Gr. 1. The one in Gr. 4 had major behavioural issues and instead of my parents confronting, disciplining him or getting him tested, my mom blamed the school and thought she could do way better. Even worse is the one in Gr. 1 was only homeschooled so the older brother didn't feel singled out, like no other reason than pandering to the other brother. He was doing fine in school and was just a regular 6 yr old who got yanked out on my mom's whim.
My mom decided the best course of action was to start them both over with kindergarten work and go from there. The problem was they would act up and she would get sick of "teaching" in less than an hour and than let them run around. I would come home from school (there were 4 more of us that just went to a normal school) and they'd be running around and saying they hadn't done anything that day. Skip ahead to them going back to regular school and they were both so far behind but the school board said they had to be put in the correct grade to their age despite my mom insisting they start two grades down. They missed so much proper and crucial education and were left playing catch up the rest of their education.
My mom to this day thinks this was a good decision and had no negative consequences on them. The older one should have had testing for special needs and given proper support in a school and the younger one struggles socially, like essentially he was screwed over by my mom thinking she knew best.
Did Canada keep the $29k/year is taxes they collected for public school or give it the the parents to help with home schooling? Two kids and $60k per year for them would have been a lot more than your describing, so I'm guessing the government was happy to collect that tax and ignore the family.
@@deshawnwashington3798 Lol, yea, I can tell you now my parents never got any money for home-schooling, especially since we were very poor and that kind of money would have made the world of difference.
@@deshawnwashington3798 the government (provinces) collect school taxes at the division level. this money goes to the school division that delivers free education at pubic schools with paid, trained teachers and no, this does not go to a parent if a parent yanks their kid out of school. I cannot even begin to calculate the amount of abuse this would potentially lead to. However, curricular textbooks and resources can be had from the school divisions for free - if you are actually educating your child. But what a joyless way to spend your days... no friends, no social interactions or community building and no building of social skills for later life either.
I have an online friend who was “homeschooled” in Texas. He’s like 21 now and has at most a dubious sixth grade education, leaving him no real path to getting any sort of decent job. My friend group is actually trying to get him set up with some way to at least get a GED so he can get money to maybe move out of his parents’ place. It’s really really sad how badly his parents failed him, and it’s all perfectly legal in Texas!
GED to community college/trades really is a decent way to get caught up. Remedial education exists for all kinds of people, whether they fell through the cracks in public school, were "homeschooled", or had an illness/crisis that derailed their education. Remind him that not being taught things that his peers know isn't his failing and even a late start is better than never starting at all. There may be setbacks, but he CAN do it!
@@CrittersBeinCuteAgree with you❤❤❤
The the republiCONs would love for all of Americans to be just like that.
Conspiracy theory: companies need cheap and unskilled labour, thus homeschooling is basically unregulated
This! Exactly this 😮💨
Hi, huge shoutout to the entire team at LWT for doing this. I spoke to one of the producers about this and I was so impressed and grateful for the conversation we had about this, it was clear everyone there really cared about this issue. Thank you for giving us who went through certain types of "curriculum" a voice! I appreciate all of the parents who homeschool because they genuinely give a crap about their kids.
love your videos!
@@SpookyStag2015thank you so much!
@@joebrewer4529 babe i have news for you: neither do us homeschoolers. In fact, when we do learn what words mean, the definition is often wrong (especially abeka curriculum). Ask me what the definition of "nation" or "humanism" was that I learned.
I was homeschooled K-12 and I absolutely loved it. I am currently getting a 4 year stem degree in 3 years on a ton of scholarships. I also absolutely agree with everything in this video. I met kids who were in abusive situations, and I'm sure there's way more that I never got the chance to meet. I am from PA, so we did get that little yearly check in and we had to take the occasional standardized test (like once every two years). It's the least they could do to make that a requirement for all states. It was not intrusive at all to our lovely homeschool, as a matter of fact we had evaluation parties every year where we'd invite all our homeschool friends and we'd go to a park and take turns getting evaluated by a handful of teachers. It was super fun. Also, a lot of us were far above grade level. My friends who has crippling social anxiety, ADHD, autism, etc etc or just couldn't do traditional school for whatever reason really thrived in homeschooling. It can be beautiful. The safety precautions put in place do not hinder a good homeschool experience. They do prevent abuse in a bad homeschool experience. They are absolutely necessary and I cannot overstate how important restrictions on homeschooling are.
PA is one of the states that has some regulations thankfully
Thank you from sharing your experience! I am also from PA and had a good homeschooling experience. The yearly checks definitely make sure you are meeting state expectations. We went through PA homeschoolers, so there were a lot of regulations and I feel like I had a good education. I’m now in grad school and doing well.
I am also from Pennsylvania and homeschooled 5 of my 6 kids through high school and they all went on to college and successful careers. First, PA has good oversight and well developed homeschool communities, secondly, I paid people to teach my children high level math, Spanish, and music. We had a literature rich home and worked hard to give our children global experiences. It took a great deal of effort and dedication but we had a great time and grew into a close family and raised fierce men and women
@@akinmytua4680 yes, and it has definitely been beneficial to kids who weren't getting taught and/or were being abused
Yes, I had a great homeschooling experience as well (edit: California and Maryland) because my parents were a lot like yours. Most of my friends ended up being public schoolers, and a few homeschoolers. Every now and then I met one of the weird, indoctrinated homeschool kids where I knew something was off, but I didn’t quite know what it was. But they also didn’t have a lot of friends because they were “odd,” so we didn’t really try to get to know them. In hindsight, I feel sad about that. 😢
Darth Vader is such a parent, he made it a part of his fancy name change.
That's a deep cut joke right there.
I get it.
I recall a Swede in an online forum contrasting the Swedish view of family policy with what he regarded as the US view. He said something like: "We view parents as guardians responsibilities, not owners with rights." It sounds as if the HSLDA and many of the parents think of children as things parents can own can do with as they like. Let's talk about responsibilities.
No, only public schools own kids. Who is overseeing them? Where's the accountability for them?
I see you've never been in a public school, seen anything about their detailed regulation, oversight, and accountability, and you didn't watch the video. Robot?
@@chrispaige8880 School curriculums are constantly discussed publicly, even to the point where public media is reporting it nationwide.
Parents and politicians are deciding which books are getting banned and which are allowed.
Parents can and do influence school politics and school boards have to have meetings which even allow filming and publicly publishing the meetings.
Schools have lots of oversight..
Yes! At the Coalition for Responsible Home Education (the org working to change these laws and protect homeschooled children that John mentioned) our motto is "Children have rights, parents have responsibilities."
@@chrispaige8880it’s called going to the fucking meetings where public discussion on the curriculum. Voting for your School board members. If you don’t like em, start a smear campaign to get them ousted. They need to have public meetings as well and you can just go to them, start a ruckus
Any time "parental rights" is used, it inevitably leads to it sounding like an argument about how children are possessions and not people. "Parental responsibility" is a better alternative purely for the implication that it is a continual, active action rather than the passive state that "right" implies.
Exactly. Though the possessive is used in "my children", it does not imply ownership. It implies a duty of care.
I agree and I’m amazed more people don’t see it this way.
@tendiesoffmyplate9085 no. They are not possessions. They are individuals. They aren't property.
@tendiesoffmyplate9085 you can't call someone else a groomer immediately after saying the most groomer thing someone can every say
You are what wrong with western society. That's why the news can't say "commit suicide" because it' might make the family feel bad?
One of the biggest downsides to homeschooling, besides bad education practices, is the potential lack of socialization. I was homeschooled, but I almost never left the house to socialize. Going into college, I found out just how lacking my social skills were. There were people I knew who compensated for this by doing sports or hanging with people they knew before they left public/private school.
there's a reason 'the homeschooled kid' is often the butt of the joke. I was also homeschooled for most of my life, and even though i didn't know how to read until I was 12, the lack of socialization and no close friends were by far the worst part
Yes I was thinking this as well! I was always in school with others. I learned two languages as an adult. You can learn all the academic skills from school in a pretty short time if you have enough time to devote to it.
The reason it takes so long for children in school to learn something is because schools expect a large portion of the day to be used up with learning social skills. I went to an academically rigorous military boarding school for high school, and even there, a lot of time was spent on social skills, physical activities, and life skills such as cleaning.
That was 100% your parents choice we had several home schooling groups who got together and went on field trips to tons of places, played sports together, had outings to he park or a hike or bike ride all kinds of stuff that kids in school can't do during school hours usually lol you can even private tours to tons of places most people can't ainceit is "for school" go tour the local newspaper publisher, city hall, behind the scenes at amusement places, nursing homes, etc. Like what!?
@@soymilkmanwhy blame home schooling though? Otherkids have almost graduated high school by 12 through home alschooling clearly it was your PARENTS smdh
Thank you for adding "potential" to that statement. In some areas there simply aren't opportunities for homeschool socialization as public schools refuse interaction. In others there are so many events that it's physically impossible to attend them all. Luckily for our kids, the latter was true. Providing socialization events seems like a better use of HSLDA's money than the heavy religious indoctrination and lobbying they currently do.
I’m a homeschooling mom from a family of public school teachers and intellectuals. The decision to homeschool my child was not an easy one, but, it was definitely the right one for us. Having said that, I am all for some regulations- not only to protect the welfare of children- but, I would welcome a loosely structured benchmark system that would ensure that I am educating my child adequately.
True story, I went to high school with a kid who started going to public schools when he was 15. He was a super nice kid but was also SUPER awkward. He was homeschooled until then and had no frame of reference for socializing. He also came from a super religious family. By the end of that first year we went to school with him, he seemed genuinely destroyed emotionally. He said that he felt like he lost his entire childhood. He sat at home and learned about Jesus for basically a quarter of his life. He turned out okay in the end, but he was always super depressed about how we had all these stories and friends while he spend 15 years of his life just sitting in his bedroom. I'm sure that is a good thing for a small amount of people who maybe have rare or unfortunate health issues but he felt like his adolescent years were stolen from him.
They were.
That's horrible. Were the parents ever prosecuted?
This is very similar to my story, except I didn’t even make it to public school, for me it was a private Christian school. It wasn’t until the 10th grade that I was enrolled.
It’s hard to relate to a lot of traditional media (television shows, movies, etc.) surrounding schools, because I just never really had any of that experience, and the very little experience I did have was a VERY toned down version steeped in religion. The closest experience I have is college, and even then, I had very different experiences than are typically shown in mass media…partly because of the degree program I was enrolled in, and partly because I was very much building social skills and cues from the ground up
Oh noooooo! Awkward?! Nobody in public schools has ever been awkward or weird. Never ever!
@@TheSmark666Imagine being awkward and not understanding why or even that it’s an awkward situation because you lack all social context needed to exist among a group of people you have never met before. Now make that 5 days a week.
I homeschool. My son is autistic and what the schools can do for him is limited. He would certainly be a disruption to the other children. All that said, Im constantly appalled that the state never checks in on homeschooled kids. I 100% would support quarterly welfare checks on my kids. But our system doesn't even have enough CPS workers to help kids with known serious abuse. It's disturbing.
This is why in other countries they usually have different kinds of special ed schools to suit those kids needs. Inclusion is wonderful but just not always the best way to do it. My nephew has ASD and ADHD and started out in a normal elementary school, didn't work out so he ended up in a school where he only had three classmates and teachers who specialize in teaching kids like him.
All free at point of access and funded by taxes just like all the other schools.
My partner cousin went to a school like that too because she has multiple learning disabilities and a physical one too and she thrived there and suddenly didn't feel like the odd one out or stupid. She was just one of the kids there and was suddenly able to do really good because she actually had the time to catch up.
Inclusion is great and all but sometimes it's just better to separate to give kids these chances. They still have a lot of experiences with everyone else in the world after school.
@@DieAlteistwiederdathe US has this as well.
@Ash-kp8rt but not every school district is equal or equipped
@@DieAlteistwiederda We already have this in most districts - at least an attempt at it. But in most cases this doesn’t and will never work in the US. Most of our public schools can’t even do the basics successfully, let alone deal with kids who have extra needs. Homeschooling is an equally valid alternative in the meantime. There needs to be more regulation around homeschooling though.
then you can voluntarily do that yourself. Some people don't want govt involved in their lives at all and do just fine without them getting involved. It's fine if you want things, you can do whatever you want. Just do go out there trying to force everyone to live the way you want to live and be checked up on.
This hits extremely hard as someone who was pulled out of school at 7, and then neglected for the rest of my childhood. It wasn’t just poor teaching or misinformation- it was complete nothingness, with only a promise of complete control of us.
Home schooling can be good, of course, but there are so many kids like I was where it’s simply a way to further isolation and abuse. Even within America, so many people are so sure that reporting to the government and having check-ins is required- trust me, even in the states where that seems to be the case, it isn’t enforced.
I'm so sorry, and I'm right there with you. My parents could have just made me totally disappear and it would have been 1) legal and 2) undetectable. Knowing as a kid that my parents had that kind of total power and I had basically no rights was... pretty scary. We need at least the basic reforms that CRHE is pushing for.
@@FireddaCouldn't have said it better myself. "Total power" is exactly what is being given here, no questions asked and no oversight given. And it's a control that, if they play their cards right, can stretch well into adulthood.
Feel free not to read all this, but as a little more info on how fucked up it can be legally for anyone who doesn't realize:
I don't know how it is in other states, but for me, it was physically impossible for me to get any form of identification (state ID, driver's license) without a parent signing-- because I had no prior school ID or record of living anywhere.
I was only able to finally convince my father to let me get a state ID at 21 (after pleading since I was 15) under assurance that I could start working and pay bills. Before that, the only record of me still existing was a tick on their tax forms saying I was a dependent.
Any person who genuinely loves and supports their children should be able to look at any amount of abuse and be able to say "oh, yeah, I can deal with a minor inconvenience to help protect kids going through that."
My husband forged the homeschooling paperwork with his mother's signature when he was 16. He did this because his mother was a horrifically abusive alcoholic and he needed to be able to work a full time job to pay the rent so they wouldn't be evicted.
15:51 The abuse had been reported, she had even been pulled over while driving drunk with him in the car. But he was never removed from her 'care'. Even after breaking a jack daniels bottle over his head and stabbing him with it. The liberal state of Oregon does not remove children from their mothers- even when abusive and incapable.
She had spent all her money on alcohol and there wasnt any food in the house.
He would slip out his bedroom window every day and go to the library to do his school work and afterwards he would go to his dishwasher job at a restaurant.
He graduated on time and left home as soon as he turned 18, joining the marines. We met while we were both on active duty.
Homeschooling has a place in society. for alot of people this is the only good option. Unfortunately there will always be people that misuse systems in place to help people, that doesn't mean that the system shouldn't exist.
The lack of good child protective services had nothing to do with homeschooling
I knew a fully homeschooled family that was so behind the curve it was terrifying. I'm talking about fully grown adults who have graduated not knowing important historical events like the holocaust while literally thinking that "nazis are just a type of Zombie." They didn't know math, they could barely read above a 2nd grade level, and their emotional maturity was basically non-existent. It was easier to determine what they didn't know rather than what they knew.
It was genuinely devastating to see and the state did nothing about it despite being called on them multiple times.
Meanwhile, I personally dropped out of 7th grade halfway through the year to do "Home Studies" which was a hybrid program. I met with a teacher once a week to receive my homework and go over what it would entail. I was then left to my studies with the ability to reach out to her any time with questions or I could simply save it for the following week and be a bit behind but go over it in person to catch up later. I went from suicidal to flourishing. I found my passions, I was able to work part time, I was able to travel and I made life long friends during this time period.
I think I see a lot of these people in UA-cam comments
Whenever we had homeschooled kids join our class, ALWAYS ahead or at par depending on the subject. Both our stories are anecdotal, but seemed to always be the case.
Lmaoo this idiot really said someone was far behind because they didn’t know the holocaust?! Lmao wow I really am speechless. The conditioning worked on you wholeheartedly. And then you dropped out in 7th grade as well lmaooooo that’s hilarious to be honest
To be behind the curve, all you have to do is send your child to school in the South.
@@CenterThePendulumHow often did that happen?
I was homeschooled in Michigan and my experience was honestly excellent. My mom did a great job raising and teaching us, my siblings and I all went on to college or full-time employment, we're good citizens, etc. HOWEVER, I saw some *stuff* among the other homeschool families I interacted with and the lack of regulation is *scary.* I met families that were literal denim-skirt wearers with 12 kids who only taught their daughters how to be housewives. There is some incredibly ridiculous curriculum (especially in history and science) and a massive fear of public education. It is a completely different world than the one everyone else exists in.
I'm glad someone else had a good experience with homeschooling! I have had the same story as you, a wonderful mother who was a good teacher and made sure we were knowledgeable on all topics.
There were families in the homeschool groups who were very lacking though and I understand the fear of it.
Best comment here
Teaching daughters that they can be anything other than housewives leads to them becoming whores, which means the usa is becoming a third world shithole.
I can tell by how you write that your homeschooling was excellent. Congrats to you and your siblings, and especially your mother.
@coltonwesley4460
1 hour ago
"I was homeschooled in Michigan and my experience was honestly excellent. "
Was it, or do you but not have a basis for comparison?
The arrogance it takes for a parent to think they are more qualified than a team of highly trained teachers is sheer hubris.
Home Schooling is about on par with Home Dentistry.
It is just a bad idea all around
I was being sexually abused at home as a kid. I didn't understand what was happening. It was the public school sex education that I'm sure my family didn't want me knowing that taught me something was very wrong. You can't ask for help if you don't even know what's going on. That is why public school sex education is so important. Im not against home-schooling for the right reasons, but wanting to hide your kids from sex education is a huge red flag to me that abuse is likely happening behind closed doors.
I've known people who were pulled out of public school due to abuse, harrassment, and bullying. It was vital for them to grow into healthy adults without excess trauma. Public schools aren't perfect at all and it makes me nervous too. Home schooling can absolutely be done right. Yet, the main reason I always hear is because they want their kids to not understand what sex is. Or worse, what understanding for those different than you are. That's a massive 🚩
"I was being sexually abused at home as a kid"
This is one of the most painful sentences I have ever read! Were you being abused by your own family members?
Many kids are sexually abused at school.
What about the paedophiles working as teachers in schools? You make the assumption that all schools are safe places for children.
This was excellent thank you. I work at a college and I basically help every single incoming student get their paperwork in. Some of these parents just make up the kids entire high school transcript when I tell them I have to have one on file. Like they just make it all up and then sign it. And I have to sit there and accept it like it is a real document. As a person with OCD, with a degree in archival record keeping who works in a records office, this gives me heart palpitations. The integrity of everything is literally falling apart right now and no one cares
I was pulled from school because after attending kindergarten the teachers realized I was going to need special needs classes. My parents HATED this idea vehemently. No one bothered getting me diagnosed with what was wrong until many years later.
When they pulled me from school, they also pulled my siblings from school. I feel bad for that, because it always kind of got pushed on to me as being "my fault" that my older sibling (8 years older) was no longer thriving in an environment that he was used to. They proceeded to put me through two runs of Hooked on Phonics, and then threw ACE books at me and told me to do my work, and then after that do my chores. They did not teach me or instruct me in my schooling at all. Chores were paramount in my life. I was cooking family meals at 6 years old, doing dishes, cleaning the house, and generally held to a standard that now I realize seems very extreme for a child so young. I was not allowed to go outside and socialize.
I couldn't read after Hooked on Phonics. It turns out that I have dyslexia, and I ended up teaching myself to read after a massive struggle for years. I was 11 by the time I could read and participate in school at an acceptable level. By this time, I was severely behind and they stopped buying our curriculum for us whenever I finally got myself into 9th grade material at 15. I never got to graduate because "the material was too expensive" and "we'll buy some next month for you". These lines were repeated until I was 18. They did not allow me to go to public school. I even tried to leave the house to go to public school on several occasions, and I was physically attacked by my mother to keep me from doing so.
I did not get to graduate. I did not get instruction or assistance. Extended family knew what was happening, family friends knew what was happening, and nobody did anything to help. I fell through the cracks. I firmly believe that the state should be able to require homeschooled kids to be sent for an exam twice a year at least to check in with them, test them on material, and also be able to speak with the child privately to make sure abuse is not happening. Neglect is abuse everyone. Parentification of your child is also wrong on many levels.
I'm renting a room from a guy and his wife who are doing the same thing to their kids. It's so obvious that all 3 of the kids are WAY behind where they should be. One of them has some sort of severe learning disability that definitely isn't being addressed. The family never leaves the house. Most of the "curriculum" seems to be chore-based. It's hard to watch. I've spoken with a couple mandatory reporter people about the situation and have been told there's nothing that can be done because none of this is breaking any laws.
I think now they are requiring home schooled students to do end of year testing, at least they do in GA.
As a mom of a special needs young adult, who stayed in the school system and ended up thriving enough to graduate with honors, though still struggles in some ways, I am so sad ths happened to you and your siblings. For what it's worth, I send you some warm hugs and some unconditional love. May the rest of your life be brighter. ❤
In the places I know of that require end of year testing, they are NOT required to pass it.
I'm sorry that this happened to you. You should write an article or a book about it.
For about a year and a half, I was completely homeschooled. I was getting bullied terribly and my anxiety was through the roof, so it just made more sense to sign me up through a homeschool program at home. The program we used was actually accredited by the state, so for each book I completed, I got several credits (3-5) that would be applied to my freshman year of HS. It wasn't something I really enjoyed, ONLY because I had to teach myself and had to discipline myself to dedicate the work and the time. Thankfully my Parents and Grandmother aren't like the parents who made that god-awful list; when I got my work done for the day after dedicating typically 3hrs or more, they let me do what I pleased for the most part (within reason). I still helped with chores, but the biggest focus was school first and foremost, THEN I could do chores. When I finally did get past some of my anxieties and went back to public school, I actually had more credits for my freshman year than most, so not only did I receive the credits needed to finish middle school, but I had enough to actually get a head start in highschool. Sadly, my anxiety got worse when the bullying returned, and I left during my Sophmore year to get my GED, which in hindsight was a fantastic move. My community college was safe, clean, friendly and inviting, and I had actual teachers that cared about me and my progress. Best of all, nobody really gave a shit or heckled you because they were older (20s-late 60s was my class). They got to focus on each student more, simply because the class had a maximum of 10-15 students. By the time I got my GED, only 6 people finished the class.
It is absolutely 100% HOW you're homeschooled. It's all about how your parents choose to handle your education. These people don't care about their kids like mine did, they want slaves, racial inequality, and the end of everything 'sinful' as deemed by them. We need serious homeschool reform.
Well said!
I homeschooled my kid and would keep to the same teaching hours as public schools. The only difference was that my kid did not have to do homework, even his French club homework was done during school time: when you are taught one by one, the teaching is more intensive so you can learn more: at school a lot of time is "wasted" organising the class to organising materials, get started on activities and waiting for everyone to finish. Besides, EVERYONE needs time to relax, and playtime is extremely important for children's development.
Why were you being bullied and how did it “return” after you tried to go back to public school?
@@fredskull1618 the reasons children have for bullying are not the responsibility of the bullied to find out, and they are usually not the reasons the bullies say out loud, so it doesn't really matter why they were bullied, does it? I've been bullied for being new, different, female, light-skinned, fat, having black dyed hair, being red-headed, blond, brunette, having dark-skinned friends, getting good grades, getting bad grades, answering questions, being quiet, being loud, having acne, needing a bra, smiling, not smiling, wearing skirts, switching to pants when boys lifted my skirts. I've been called a slut in 5th grade for hanging around only boys and ridiculed for being a lesbian in 7th for hanging around only girls.
I changed schools six times by 9th grade. It doesn't matter where you are or whether anyone is familiar with why you've been bullied before. The bullying doesn't stop until you leave.
@@JasminemPolyanthum also, I’m sorry those things happened to you, and it sounds like you went to school in a shitty area full of shitty parents with shitty kids who have shitty ideas about the world and about people who are “different”.
One of my best friends was homeschooled, and she absolutely hated it. Her parents were too busy (read: neglectful) to actually teach her, so she was basically left on her own to do her own schoolwork. Luckily, my friend was extremely studious, but was often frustrated that she had no one to explain things to her if she got stuck or confused. Btw, she was in 4th grade when they pulled her out of school (That's 9-10 years old, for those of you with a different system). Until she went to college, she basically had to teach herself.
Worse yet, she's the oldest of four siblings, and also had to teach them. They were much less enthusiastic about schoolwork than she was, so getting them to pay attention was hell. She was basically those kids' third parent. And yes, that is the definition of parentification.
I'm sure she'll learn to appreciate it. Anyone paying attention is not sending their kids to public school.
She's in her thirties now, has a terrible relationship with her mother, and one of her sisters ended up in prison for a year. She says the best thing she ever did was move out of her house, which she did by going to college and getting a degree. I remember when we were in college, she wouldn't stop gushing about how much better it was than her homeschooling situation.
@@DLehrke🤦♀️
@@DLehrke you don't just "learn to appreciate" neglect 🙄
I had to teach myself in high school because I was more intelligent than almost all of my teachers. You just never know!!
As a child abuse survivor: thank you for this story. Thank you for tackling it. Personal liberty only seems to apply to parents, never to children.
We pulled out our son from HS b/c they were unable to support his adhd (despite an IEP) and it was causing him massive anxiety. We did a mix of online learning and dual enrolment in community college until he graduated this year. It worked really well for us.
I was *shocked* to learn how minimal the standards are for a HS diploma for homeschooled kids. Basically, no standards at all. It is really disturbing to realize how easily educational neglect can occur.
And in public schools, they promote you with no standard at all. None. Zero. You just get promoted. Please reference grade level achievement for the average inner city child.
I’m having this issue with my 11 year old. She’s still in public school but the school is struggling with handling her ADHD
Noting here that my daughter had a rough time in high school because a couple of her teachers didn't "believe" ADD was real, so wouldn't allow time-and-a-half testing. Upon being formally tested at 17, she was allowed to take all exams, including the APs, with extra time. As a result, she went to an Ivy League school where no one cared how long it took her to do anything. Now, with a master's degree in biochemistry, she's fully employed--and works with a team of scientists who value her brain rather than a stop-watch!
We homeschooled through 12th grade. We used charter based schools for supervision and records. I am a credentialed teacher, that’s why I realized they didn’t need to go to school. There are lots of a la carte classes and specialized teachers in our area
I was homeschooled and since my mom believed in education. I ended up educated better then my friends who went to the local school. I am still amazed when I find out what my fellow adults didn't learn in school.
My cousin is a teacher and she worked at schools at small towns in TX. She regularly had to issue reports on parents that shamelessly abused their own children in some way.
Children coming to school with bruises. Smelling of urine. Pale and with dark circles around their eyes because of malnutrition.
Many of the parents of those kids were alcoholics or were on drugs.
I can't imagine how life is for homeschooled children having no hope of being rescued from such toxic and abusive households.
I think generally these people are abusive because they don't want their children around. I can't imagine what would incentivize these people to homeschool their children. To be fair, it does happen, but that is definitely not a large portion of the homeschooling community.
@@isakblomberg528 Well, I'm remembering that guy who imprisoned his daughter in his basement and forced her to have something like 5 of his children, so no, not all abuse is neglect
@isakblomberg528 child abuse is about power and control, not just not wanting the kid around. Hitting the child for being (percieved) disobedient, or even just as a matter of rote, is a means of assering authority over them, reminding the child that they and they alone have power. Homeschooling lets then double down on that, removing time the kid can get away from them and preventing teachers from reporting them and threatening that power.
To be clear, you are right and most homeschooling is likely not that, but *any* is unacceptable, and that's why basic protections need to exist.
@@isakblomberg528you’d think but there are abusive parents that love the control over their children and actually enjoy torturing them
Why are you equating abusive families with homeschooling?? These comments are ignorant!
Former “Homeschooled” Kid here. The moment I saw the title I knew I was in for reliving the most depressing & lonely time in my life. I was “Homeschooled” for the first 9 years of my life. Then my grandparents died and parents crumbled mentally and stopped teaching us. We kept asking them to teach us again, but they’d be “Too Tired” or try and get us to teach ourselves, we’d ask to be sent to school so we could be with our neighborhood friends, we never were. I barely left my house for years. I’m 21, I don’t have my GED, it’ll be years because I’m able to even take the test. I’m only just now learning how to socialize because I lost all of my friends when I was 10 because I was too weird and our parents kept getting into arguments. A large part of me died in that house, But I’m getting better now. I live alone, I have a good job that I’m passionate about. I don’t talk to my parents that often, the less the better. Homeschooling nearly killed my sisters and I.
If only there would have been laws that forced them to send yo to school
Oh goodness! I'm sorry you went through all that.
Hang in there buddy. ❤
I'm
a home schooled family/ given books told "figure it out" and my sister left home 18 and went to Texas state graduated last year. I'm 18 and a Partially functioning couch potato B student its PreCal level stuff ok.
Khan Academy is a nice program that allows you to praftide grade level math problems… worth checking out if you are going for your Ged
Although homeschooling works for some, in other cases it is not recommended. I had a kindergarten student whose mom could not separate from him. Literally left bawling her eyes out every day for the first two weeks of school. I seem to remember her looking in to volunteering in the classroom, but before the third week was out, she had pulled him from school and said she planned to homeschool the child. Because she couldn’t bring herself to be separated from him. I cannot even begin to imagine what became of this child. The emotional clutch for his parent.
Knowing someone who was homeschooled for several years, the biggest issue I saw was that they were extremely isolated. They never saw other kids. At all. They barely even got to leave the house because of the mother's paranoia. Which was really sad because they were a really social kid who just didn't get to socialize.
That's a mental issue, not a homeschool issue. Hope you contacted the spouse and got them help. Nah. Didn't think so.
I would agree, this seems like a very specific case not that it doesn't happen but it's rare.
Seems more like a societal problem than a homeschooling problem. Community leaves so many people isolated, but do we care about them? Na, lets target homeschoolers, because of a few bad actors. 119 school mass shootings in the US last year. If each one killed only one student, then 119 children died in 2020. A few more than the 10 shown in this video that died at their parents hands. A few fewer than the abusive parents that send their kids to school.
gotta love how you answered your own question
@@teamshoemakerit can be both. The point being that the homeschooling made accountability for the mental problem all the more less likely and its effects even more exacerbated.
There were a lot of ridiculous ways I expected the podcast lady to describe her child’s education, but “making a wonderful Nazi” was NOT one of them
I believe that was the one from Sandusky,Ohio. It fits right in with Ohio's gerrymandered Red majority.
I yelled holy fuck at the tv so loud when she said nazi it scared my cats!
Yep, that pause gave me lots of ideas, but Nazi definitely didn't come to mind.
I expected a "Christian", or something similar after the pause, but then boom. 🤯
Well she is a conservative so….
My parents started homeschooling us after Columbine and, honestly, it was the best thing they could’ve done. I was an extremely shy and socially awkward kid so it took a lot of pressure off me. It also afforded us a lot of opportunities and experiences that my friends in public school didn’t get. It helps that I wasn’t raised in a religious household, so our curriculum wasn’t funneled through religion.
I’m a big proponent of homeschooling but it definitely needs more oversight.
The religion part? So. Very. Lucky.
Agreed. It worked great for me. My mom is amazing and I got a better education online than 90% of the kids in my district. I socialized through extracurriculars and was very happy. Shootings are also really common here, so I also felt safer. I got time to explore my hobbies and myself and have no regrets after graduating this year. But it's not for everyone. Every kid should have the choice. And every family shouldn't suck balls and isolate their children/indoctrinate them
@@cerealkiillarnot necessarily.
I don't see what is even a problem with a religious education. I went to public school and church. The church did not warp me. The schools did! That is why I was so excited to homeschool my kids for as long as possible. Homeschooling can be an incredible education. Just depends.
Just want to acknowledge that a lot of us end up homeschooling because no matter how many IEPs you have a lot of US schools simply do not have the funds/resources to meet our children’s needs. And those us with medically fragile kids have had to pull our kids out of school because there is literally NO covid mitigation in most public schools. I’ve had to go part-time to manage our child’s education and we are lucky that we can scrape by one 1 and 1/2 income. We definitely need more educational oversight and finding ways to end educational neglect and abuse, as well as better secular resources.
i was homeschooled and it was the best thing that ever happened to me
The success of homeschooling depends very much on the parents. I'm an independent teacher and I often work with homeschooled kids, and I've seen how it can work and how oftentimes it doesn't work. The times it does work, the parents provide good stucture and are often getting outside help from classes and tutors. The "unschooled" students I've worked with could barely read by their late teens, and they were embarrassed about it. They were also very socially awkward and had trouble synthesizing information. It's so important to build up those foundations when they are very young, so they have the tools to continue learning in their teens and adulthood.
Absolutely. Needed badly to be said,
there is just no beating getting focused education by a specialist on the topic for each topic you get taught... for homeschooling to have a chance at drawing equal, they basically need parents highly qualified on all subjects taught who also have the time to spend 6 hours per day on their kids education... well or a slew of private teachers to fill the gaps
without that... any benefits from more directed attention falls off due to lack of qualification... and without the full attention, you are not even gaining that benefit over a school environment, while incurring all the detriments from lack of social contacts
home schooling is a concept that can only work for the rich... for everyone else its doomed to failure
@@SharienGaming One of the things that really surprised me homeschooling was that it wasn't six hours per day. We do WAY more in-depth on each subject than they do in public schools. It is especially fun if my kiddo thinks something is interesting, we can just go deep dive on it (I shift around how much teaching I do in the subject later to make sure everything still gets covered, a little more work for me, but makes him more excited to learn). Where we were picking up a ton of time was all those times in school where you were walking from one class to the next, or just standing in line waiting, the time spent travelling to and from, listening to morning announcements and doing the pledge of allegiance, etc. etc. etc. All those things add up a ton. Some of that reclaimed time we just take to do outings to museums and zoos and other onsite outings, but he gets some of it back as free time too.
In fact, as he has gotten into high school, him having control over his time to a much greater degree has been a huge benefit. For example, he had a new game he wanted coming out on a Wednesday. He 'wheeled and dealed' a deal that if got all his schoolwork for the week done by Tuesday that I would buy him the game and he would have the rest of the week off. He chose to work into the evening on two days and got it done. I was really proud of him (and a bit jealous I can't do the same thing with work). It is more motivating for him when he is involved with the decisions. He also decided last year that he would prefer to not jump around subjects so much and do all his work for each subject on a single day each week, so Monday might be English, Tuesday Math, Wednesday Science, etc. It is working out well for him so we are letting it ride. As long as he keeps learning and doing well, then anything that makes him more motivated is a good thing in my book.
@@SharienGaming I find it odd that you believe one must be an expert in order to facilitate the learning of a child. If a parent is engaged in their homeschooling efforts, they are learning right along with the children. Understanding your children's strengths and weaknesses is important, but not even as important as understanding your own and putting in the effort to find help to close the gaps in your skills or understanding. This can be done through many online resources, tutoring groups, etc. Both of my kids tested well above average on their PSSAs and despite my youngest's constant belly aching about it both are extremely literate and capable of information synthesis (though my oldest detests writing things in sentence format and didn't think I would catch him using ChatGPT to turn his outline into a report)
@@seanmahoney2671 you dont have to just devote the time to the teaching itself - you also have to invest time into preparing lessons, organising the material and reading up on the material yourself
and if you assign work they are supposed to do on their own, you have to invest the time into preparing and correcting that as well
sidenote - i dont think encouraging working into the evening and night is a good idea, because thats work that is unlikely to stick... when you are tired you are less clear headed, make more mistakes and retain less information - cramming like that isnt a good idea... and of course rest and recovery is incredibly important
and on something entirely different - that time waiting and walking between classes isnt wasted - its really useful for socializing and learning how others think, act and how to interact with them
mind you - neuro-atypical kids may have issues with crowds or overstimulation and in those cases they likely need help with developing effective coping techniques to deal with that on a regular basis... there specialized schooling or homeschooling may be the better option
though the whole pledge thing really is a waste of time... in fact that still creeps me out everytime i hear about it and it reeks of authoritarianism
I was homeschooled, I’d say I have generously a 8th grade education. I’m about to turn 30 and I JUST learned about Malcom X. I was taught white supremacy ideology. We did the same curriculum as the duggars. Sex Ed taught me my job as a person with female genitalia is to procreate. ALSO my parents allowed me to be emotionally involved with a grown man 10 years older then me because he went to our church.
I’m so sorry that was allowed to happen to you. America is insane af.
There are high school graduates right now with an education less than that. It’s an imperfect system if you send your kids to homeschool or public school. Not all teachers are heroes either.
Not even remotely comparable.
@@angelbaby1811 the fact this your response to her expirence is nuts. im taking a wild guess here, but are you a man by chance ?
@angelbaby1811 yes, you are correct. However, if a child attends public school, the chances that children will l get am excellent teacher, at some point, is excellent. New teachers every year mean new opportunities.
My father taught small Christian schools and he was my teacher for two years in a row. The third year he declined to teach my grade because he knew that students will reflect their teachers strengths and weaknesses. He was concerned for me after two years.
Now imagine the same teacher for grades 1 through 12.
Thank you for highlighting the many issues with home schooling. I have a doctorate in education and am the principal of a public school now - but was a home schooled child in the 80s/early 90s. It was a dark and abusive place to be and I left at age 16 (as did my siblings). Now, as a principal, I feel even more frustrated by this issue of unsafe home schools because I am just as powerless to stop it as I was 30 years ago. It is not regulated and it allows new generations of parents to abuse children. Children deserve better.
Not everyone's parents are f***** up like yours. OK Bud.
@@jackiec.barnes9567 Unsupervised homeschooling is like drunk driving. 99/100 there's not an accident, but sometimes someone's life is ruined.
@@jackiec.barnes9567you sound like you’re a homeschooling parent, but if you’re not abus!ve, it’s not about you. If you feel threatened, maybe ask yourself why
@@seitanbeatsyourmeat666 I only feel threatened by these new age liberal crazies Who are more fascist than they are liberal. My children go to public school Because I work a full-time job to provide for my family.
Well... your parents must have done something right. You seem to be a productive member of society.
My granddaughter is being homeschooling right now. There are a few programs out there. The school needed verification of vaccinations and registration exactly like public schools. She also had to report yearly for her standard testing, just like public schools. Meet ups for art, music, clubs, and physical fitness events. What she didn't get to experience was bulling, peer pressure, and most importantly active shooter drills. She was already home schooling when the pandemic happened so her world never skipped a beat. She is scoring way higher then the children in our state in public schools.
I'm glad she has access to a real, helpful homeschool program and that she is getting a good education regardless of where. Good on y'all.
That's great. You're in one of the good states John talked about then. Lucky
There are good homeschooling associations out there however, there are also homeschooled kids like the ones that live across the street from my mother-in-law. The teacher is a recovering drug addict 15 years sober so that’s good but at 8 AM she turns her kids out in the yard with guns And they shoot all day. These kids are now old enough to drive, and cannot read or do basic arithmetic because all they’ve done for the last 10 years is hang out outside and shoot beer cans. Mom is off the drugs. She is not off the alcohol.
It means parents with a lot of resources like education, material, leisure time can ignore others.
This is how upper class education used to work. You get a personal informant so your kids can have the best without having to care for others.
I'm not sure how much kids can be shielded. I can't tell kids they must avoid other kids, that you do not need to develop skills to function with others.
My boyfriend was homeschooled, no horror story but he basically stopped getting an education after 3rd grade. His mom taught him for a year or two and then just stopped trying or doing anything. He lived in one of the states that you only have to notify once that you're homeschooling. I guess we finally figured out how she got away with it.
Some people can't fathom how a parent can be awful, or just how bad a terrible parent can actually be. You can't assuming they'll do the right thing by their child when they can barely manage themselves.
Thank you for sharing your experience and I am sorry to hear that. I hope that he is able to see what happened to him wasn’t normal.
I have a couple of questions if you don’t mind answering.
1. Did he live in a small town/ rural area? Was the state either Utah or Idaho?
2. Do you think that homeschooling parents are afraid that their kid might end up knowing more than them in education and that’s why they neglect to actually teach curriculum to their kids?
@@reetammitra2943This can happen in a lot of states, not just a rural place like Utah or Idaho. Its legal to do this in Virginia. It's legal not to teach your homeschooled child to read in Virginia! The Coalition for Responsible Home Education exists to stop this, and to change the laws so that it's no longer legal to just not teach homeschooled children at all.
@@carmengreen8116 i see. I understand this is a common feature in all red or historically red states. I find it weird that even after trending blue for a couple of cycles in Virginia, the democrats haven’t made any changes to these basic laws.
But regardless of the state I think the city vs small town divide is pretty stark when it comes to homeschooling. Don’t think there are that many neglectful homeschooling parents in cities, for various reasons.
I appreciate the new movement and wish them all the success.
I was curious as to your experience with my 2nd question. Coz my experience tells me that a lot of these folks feel genuinely intimidated by highly educated people (people who got a college degree) and they fear that actually teaching their kids increases their chance to go to college later on
@@reetammitra2943there are neglectful and abusive homeschooling cases in cities and suburbs all the time. The Turpin case in California is a good example. The now-adult children were interviewed on 20/20 last year; they were horrifically abused in a normal, middle-class neighborhood in California. No one should think that "it couldn't happen here," no matter where they live. And it's also wrong to think that homeschooling parents who are educationally neglecting their children are themselves worried about their kids getting more education than them. Both of my parents had bachelors degrees, as did many of the parents of the homeschooling alumni I know. There was an educational neglect case in Virginia that the Washington Post covered involving someone named Josh Powell--his mother had a graduate degree.
“No horror stories”
“Stopped getting education in 3rd grade”
Bro, that’s a horror story. Your bf dumb af.
I was homeschooled because my parents were worried about school shootings, but there was virtually no oversight or help from my parents afterwards (my mom worked fulltime but my dad was home and glued to the tv). The fact that I graduated college with honors still makes me proud because my parents were not making sure I was up to par. They just handed me the school books and a few pencils and trusted me to do the rest. (They made me use ACE to boot, btw.)
I think somewhere I came to the conclusion that a good education was largely made up of three things: good teachers, involved parents, and self-motivated students. Students can get a good education with two of the three, but only having one is really tough, and none is guaranteed failure. Things like good facilities with HVAC and having office supplies may have been taken for granted.
I’m so proud of you. That ACE comment too me out tho. 💀💀💀
Biggest issue IMO is lack of oversight. I recall one of my parents telling me in 9th grade that they could no longer help me in math, and my first thought was to question why they still felt qualified to be my primary educators.
Yeah my mom did that to me around 8th grade. I asked for help with my homework, she took a look then handed it back to me and said she couldn't do it.
However, I was in school, so I actually had teachers I could go to for help!
How did they respond?
In fairness, math is something that has been taught very differently to different generations. Parents can be excellent in the subject and still not know how to teach their kids. In contrast to literacy, which spans generations.
@@justpassingthrough...2492 How so? Math doesn’t change like language does.
I was home schooled until 9th grade. Stepped foot into high school without knowing absolutely anything but basic reading, writing arithmetic but everything about the Bible. Granted this was the early 2000's. But because of the religion based curriculum used I knew absolutely nothing about anything in society. I had to be put in special education classes because I was never taught an algebraic equation. I was a dancer (my mom owned a dance studio) so, I wasn't completely unsocial. But it was a total and complete culture shock. I made cheerleader when I was a sophomore and junior. Only 15 cheerleaders out of a class of 2300 people knew you. But it was horrible for me! I was suicidal, beyond depressed, and felt so ignorant. I know things have changed a bit now with homeschooling. But it definitely hendered me then from being a better version of myself.
I was homeschooled after the age of 12 and it saved my education. Even with an IEP and teachers doing their absolute best, my public school system just didn’t have the resources to accommodate my learning disabilities and I was falling behind academically. I live in Massachusetts and all we had to do was submit one letter letting the state know what we were planning to do and then at the end of the year we’d submit another saying what my curriculum had been and what resources I used (tutors, a homeschooling resource center, community college classes, etc.).
It’s absolutely necessary to have regulation so that kids can access the benefits of homeschooling while protecting kids from the parents only looking to abuse them.
I have a lot of thoughts on homeschooling as one of four kids who were homeschooled up until college (which I did well in a STEM Field), and in short my wife (who did well in public school) and I are going to homeschool our own kids - but I do agree that there needs to be some protections for those kids whose parents simply use it as a tool for religious indoctrination or laziness.
Theoretically, an institution capable of regulating homeschooling equitably should be capable of educating your children.
You have determined already that this institution isn’t capable of the latter, yet you believe it capable of the former?
@@addammadd no, that’s not theoretically true. Even with an IEP and teachers trying their hardest, my school district didn’t have the resources to accommodate my learning disabilities, hence why I was years behind where I should’ve been academically and nearly got held back for sixth grade. Homeschooling regulation doesn’t require nearly all the same resources as meeting a students needs through the public school system, there’s a big difference between making sure that an adequate education is being provided and actually being the one to administer that education.
I homeschool my children, every year they take State tests and submit composite scores - all done willingly. There’s not much in oversight here, and I wish there were.
While my children have learned to soar and pursue their interests, I have seen terrible things. I was kicked out of a co-op (a place where Homeschool families gather together for either play or educational purposes) because there was a woman with 1 daughter and several sons. After teaching her daughter the basic four and how to read, decided not to educate her any further. At nine years old, her parents decided she was only going to be a mother & wife and that was her extent! I’ve never been so angry.
Homeschooling needs oversight and check ins.
What would you propose, that wouldn't end up being a nightmare with a corrupt government? That's what concerns me! But I feel really bad for that girl. I hope her brothers educate her... that's how it was 150 years ago... so maybe she will turn out fine... I hope.
So why were you kicked out? Did you confront them? Because honestly, it's none of your business. Report them to CPS and move on. If you made a scene, then YOU got yourself kicked out.
@@chickadee3I think a town where you can't stand up for a child sounds like an atomized hell.
@@hannaheyeHistorically, education was an upper class privilege here. It was not all that nice. It was a system where our elite could keep their kids from meeting plebs.
In Greece, you have to attend a public or private school until the age of 15. If a parent prevents their child from attending school until that age, they recieve up to 17 years in prison. I am a maths teacher at a school and believe that it should be mandatory for all children to participate in the social setting of a school. The most important thing that people gain from school isnt knowledge, but the friends and social skills they develop.
There certainly are some cases where kids actually do benefit from homeschooling. For example something like psychological or medical issues which wouldn't be adequately addressed in school.
For my home school curriculum I took a GED test to verify that I had a highschool level education, and for socialization I used boyscouts, martial arts, larp events, homeschool gatherings, and the YMCA. I probably had better socialization for a few years, but when my brother left to go to public school he got involved with a local crime syndicate and made my life hell for a few years... so I wouldn't say any of this is that simple.
I'm not defending home schooling here, as it's such a stupid thing, but remember this story is about the USA where there's not an unreasonable chance there'll be a mass shooting at school since nobody seems to care about gun control. and, of course, all those right wing 'evangelical' nut jobs there so you see why such common sense as in Greece sadly doesn't apply there.
also; I always liked maths as I could go just about make it by not learning but using logic. it was an easy subject for what little we use it in my profession (health sector).
@@mcb4585In Greece we *typically* fix these issues by assigning specialized teachers as constant +1s for such kids.
That system has been falling apart due to lack of funding and mismanagement, but when it works correctly it allows that kid to have an as close to normal school life as possible, it enables the parents to work during the school hours and it also creates new jobs for these specialized teachers.
There's obviously scenarios where even this isn't a valid solution, in which case homeschooling might be the best and only option, but I really do think that it should only be the last alternative and only when approved by some official who has specialized in the field.
(lots of shoulds and romanticism in what I just said, but oh well, man can dream)
Dunno if you go to jail but in Spain the mandatory age for education is until 16.
The only person I’d trust to help homeschool my kids, if I ever tried that, would be my mother, she is a retired kindergarten teacher. She taught me a lot of things early on in life and reminds me when I’m being dumb. That’s cuz she’s literally qualified and now is an assistant teacher and sometimes teaches the teachers. I love her. She’s amazing.
You can get qualified teachers and curriculums online for homeschooling.
When I was a senior in highschool I had a teacher ask a friend of his, who happened, by pure coincidence, to be a spouse of a close family member, if I was safe at home.
I wasn’t but I honestly didn’t know that. I was 17 years old and had no idea because it was all I knew. I’d been isolated from a young age and had a lot of trouble making friends.
I got in so much trouble when my parents found out. So much trouble. I didn’t tell anyone anything but that teacher knew something wasn’t right.
It was just after my 5th suicide attempt.
He saved my life. Just asking that question, and getting me in trouble, put the idea in my head that maybe what I was going through wasn’t normal. Without him I wouldn’t be alive right now and I will forever be grateful.
Children need people to look in on them. They have no idea what normal looks like and can be convinced a lot of really messed up stuff is normal and they just aren’t strong enough to handle it.
I was homeschooled in the 90s. It’s taken me decades of work and lots of therapy to overcome the educational neglect and abuse at the hands of my parents. I do not speak to them now because they cannot acknowledge the ramifications I have faced as an adult trying to make my way in the world.
I’m so glad to see segments like this, although it can be hard to watch. My entire life was shaped by terrible, TERRIBLE homeschooling.
Also, definitely dissected a cow eye at my kitchen table…
Having been a public school substitute teacher for fifteen years my feelings about home schooling have changed a lot. Public schools are a nightmare for students who don't live in very privileged communities. I can understand why parents want to take their kids out of a place that isn't safe. Teachers are harried and dealing with so many behavior problems they barely have time to think about the education part in their infrequent breaks from being a cop. That said, of course we need better regulations to protect kids from abusive parents.
People who pull their children from a public school are people with the time, money and education to dedicate to their children. What happens to the rest? Maybe if everyone was forced to send their children to school, like, you know, most developed countries, politicians might have been forced to take action.
@@mementovivere2you're wrong. Many people that homeschool aren't wealthy or privileged. I know because my wife and I homeschool our children. She was. School teacher for 15 years and she saw our oldest child who has autism struggle with public school. He couldn't sit still and constantly made noises and he was constantly getting in trouble for it. My wife applied for and received an IEP and even got a Neurologist to write a letter saying he needed individualized care and the school called us in and said it wasn't going to happen because they didn't have the resources. At 5 years old my son came home crying and said to my wife "everyday I struggle to pretend to be someone I'm not". My wife right then decided she was going to attempt homeschooling. She told him she didn't know if it would work or if we could handle it but that she would try.
We are not rich. We are not well off. In fact, when we decided this, we were technically homeless. We were living in the basement of my wife's parent's home.
We've been homeschooling for 7 years now and my wife is the head of a local homeschool coop. 90% of the families she comes in contact with are not rich or well off. They are usually families with special needs where the children aren't thriving in the public school environment.
Not everyone has a two parent household and family they can live with. What single parent is home schooling out of a shelter while working two jobs? There are varying degrees of privilege.
@@specialsause949 thanks for sharing your story. I definitely didn't say anything about being rich. But homeschooling necessitates an investment that the least privileged people cannot afford. What if your wife wasn't an experienced school teacher?
The school ought to be able to support your child. Providing an extra teacher to support a single child with severe learning difficulties is considered standard in some countries with less than half of the per capita income of the USA. Public schools are defunded on purpose and homeschooling allows politicians to kick the can down the road.
I agree that not everyone has the privilege to homeschool, but the increase of homeschooling for many groups is a symptom, not a cause, of politicians already "kicking the can down the road." As long as schools are funded by property values, often in gerrymandered districts in cities, the disparity will continue. Living in a small, poor town myself, I don't plan on sacrificing my future kids to the greater good if public schools don't work well for them.
Sorry but a side note . Here in Florida there is actually an annual portfolio review required of registered homeschooling parents. You have to submit your child's work and have it evaluated by a licensed teacher, your alternative is to have your child take the annual standardized testing for their grade level at the nearest public school.,
Is it possible to have that work rubber stamped? Like if an organization like HSLDA managed to get a mole who agrees to check mark anything submitted as valid?
@@retchedperhaps but then it's just as possible for teachers in public school to rubber stamp failing students to the next grade because no child can be left behind for any reason whatsoever
@@ZombiZohm But that was an actual thing. Social promotion as it was called was just that, teachers padding their stats and advancing the kid to the next grade.
I was homeschooled, and I gotta say, I appreciate the disclaimer that homeschool can be great. My mom is a wonderful teacher (currently teaching at a public school), and when I got to high school, I was ahead of most of my peers in reading level and writing skill. So I think it's really sad that homeschool in general has this entirely earned reputation. I can't think of a single issue that could have come from my well-adjusted, law-abiding family having to prove that I was getting an education.
i had some home and mostly public schools. home schooling is a great option for many people. my parents did a cooperative school with friends in the 1st grade.
i don't know about the 'proof' thing. maybe our little school worked because we could do what we wanted and didn't haven to teach to any test...
I really appreciate that you realize your experience doesn't say everyone's experience will be the same.
@@nmarbletoe8210I’d rather see someone sit on a class and make sure it’s working properly, personally, but that can be a lot of time required.
If children learned in small groups with competent, creative, and firm teachers, then had private tutoring when necessary, that might be an excellent solution for many kids. It's been great for me as an adult learning a new language!
@@sdarling6518 that costs massive amounts of money, and Americans cry any time their property taxes go up. We love to talk a big game about supporting education but people don't want to dish out the money and if they do they refuse to spread it to any other district that may have less.
Every child deserves parents, but not every parent deserves a child.
X2
Every person has a social stance, but no social stance should be forced upon anyone.
Keep your social bullshit out of schools just like religious bullshit is kept out of schools. No more fucking activist teachers, teaching their beliefs.
certainly can be said that not every parent is the best qualified to educate children.
@@erichancock6815 And its also clear that many teachers are not qualified to educate children as well since they want to teach a toddler about fucking.
@@erichancock6815 That, too. Even the most loving parents may not be qualified to school their own child, and even if they are, many are obliged to work instead.
My sister and I were homeschooled and loved it. It helped get her out of a system that couldn't handle her ADHD needs, and get me away from bullies. We also live in country where you have to follow an approved curriculum, with actual qualified teachers checking your progress as you go to make sure you're meeting the national standards for mandatory education.
I'm a big home-schooling advocate, but not the way America does it.
Before you judge a subject, you must do your own research. This man is lying. Its scary how many people are blindly commenting their opinion based on a mans words. When i tell other parents i homeschool, they always ask why. I have never had a teacher ask me why i homeschool, they always say they are happy to hear it. That sticks with me and helps encourage me despite others opinions.
@@MoreOnPleeez There are real and significant problems with many of the available American home-school curriculums, though. For example, Abeka and ATI curriculums are both severely lacking in many areas and do not meet mandatory requirements for many other countries, although Abeka is definitely superior to ATI. I am actually fairly well researched in this area, as it's of interest to me as a homeschooling advocate.
Homeschooling is a tool, it needs regulating
@@MoreOnPleeez I'm not going to believe any of that, based on an anonymous comment.
@@minez5628 Actually many states do regulate it, the laws with homeschool are by state because states have more power in this case thanks to our bill of rights. If you have an issue with it, take it up to congress and push for a bill to change it :)
I was "homeschooled" for a year...my parents had no curriculum, no plan, nothing. I think I did maybe half a dozen "assignments" that year. They all involved reading some article in our old encycolopedia and writing a report on it. I can't recall my parents every bothered to read them and I certainly never got feedback. We didn't even have the means to access the library with any regularity.
I see so many horror stories about homeschooling here, and it just makes me happy that my parents homeschooled me just during HS with a very specific goal in mind.
I was dealing with health issues that caused me to be in severe amounts of pain constantly, so they set me up in a homeschooling program. Even so, they made sure that I still took all of the normal exams to grauate HS in my State that one would normally take (which I easily passed), they bought the actual HS curriculums and textbooks for me to use and they even helped me study for the ACT. I even went to college and got a biology degree when my health stabilized.
Having that level of structure while dealing with my health problems allowed me to finish school and still set me up for success later in life.
It _is_ good to hear that sometimes, with careful planning and clear intentions, it can work. I hope you're feeling better now than you were then, though - chronic pain is a hard burden to bear.
That's how it works in Belgium, you can homeschool but you need to prove your children are on the same level as others their age, and they need to pass some exams too.
I am betting that most homeschooling is done for legitimate reasons and those parents understand the task they are taking on. Its just funny hearing about the nuts.
@@AnthonyJMurph Please, tell me that you did not find all of the content in this video funny.
Unfortunately it's the horror stories that get attention, so that is what is usually spoken of. I homeschooled my youngest because I just couldn't bear to have yet another of my kids coming home daily all beat up and traumatized because they were the only black kids in an all white school - so no public school for the youngest. He graduated from a difficult college with highest honors in both photography and astrophysics, and was brought back the next year to work as a studio fellow in the visual arts. He made extra money on the side tutoring kids in physics. He never learned to hate math and science - he thinks it's fun, so he's exceptionally good at those subjects. He's way smarter than I am now, which is the ultimate reward for any parent.
I was homeschooled for about three years when my family was moving around a lot. While I do remember some of the curriculum having a slant towards Christianity, I was able to re-join public school in 8th grade and did just fine. I am glad though that it was only a few years and not my entire education, because I remember struggling to just sit and stay focused when you're home all day surrounded by everything you do for fun (video games, hot wheels etc). My parents did go out of their way to find good experiences though. Our science class was with some chemist lady where we would go to her lab and learn stuff with other homeschooled kids, and they set up a group of kids for reading/writing and discussing what we read/wrote. The only times we were home was for subjects like math and social studies.
I only add this comment because there's a lot of horror stories, but from my own personal experience they're not all bad. I was pulled out because I was bullied and I hated going to school, so it did help me as I had neighborhood friends that I would still see after school every day. I realize though that I'm an outlier.
You are not nearly as much of an outlier as this video and some of the comments here would have you believe. I spent a good decade or so homeschooling my kids because the public school class sizes didn't allow for the individualized attention my ADHD daughters needed. Our schooling was a combination of lessons from books bought at a teacher's resource store, community based classes like you described, k-12 curriculum, and "field trips." All five of my girls ended up completing high school at a local community college or - in the case of the youngest two - by entering into a public high school. All the girls slipped well into the classroom setting, and all but one of the girls graduated with high honors. That's been similar to the experience of other homeschooling families that I have known.
However, whether the kids are homeschooling or attending public school, the end result really depends on how much each family puts into it. The biggest lesson is that education is, or should be, a lifelong experience that does not begin and end in the school building. My children are all grown now, but we (myself included) are still constantly studying and learning new skills. Whether that love of learning comes from public school, private school, or homeschool, THAT is the true test of how successful an education has been.
i was homeschooled until 6th grade, my stepmom was the teacher for me and my sister til then, and while i can't say i remember much or learned much, entering public school was jarring because of how far behind alot of students were compared to me. There was a ton of religious emphasis on my curriculum growing up, and plenty of negatives, but overall i think i was lucky to get out when i did, because of one single factor. Social skills. Had I been homeschooled any longer, it would have been 5x harder to make friends, create a social life, and just generally feel comfortable in those situations. Even entering public school at that age, there were feelings of loneliness and feeling like an outsider, regardless of "education" because i didn't know how to function.
Similar story here, and I even had the same issue with the last parts of the science courses being slanted too heavily towards creationism and Christianity, but other than that the course materials were great.
We just skipped the parts of the curriculum that were creationist and replaced those with some custom material. Fortunately I was extremely curious about evolution and stuff, so that part wasn't difficult.
@@alindasue Best comment so far.
"Having a child does not inherently make you virtuous." "Being a parent doesn't automatically make someone moral and being with a parent doesn't automatically make a child safe." Well said John.
both quotes need to be T-shirts like now!
In my case home school was a better option. Low income public schools held me back more than anything. Teachers didn’t care. Some would come to work drunk and pass out at their desk. In my experience public schools are a flawed system.
Being a government lobbied by billionaire elitists does not give you a moral high ground either. The parent has more of a right over their own child more so than the government does. Parenting is the parents job.
@@codyaskew1672 valid, but, 'A is flawed' is not the same as "B is universally better, to the point that we don't even need to check, or think about it"
Replace parent with teacher, and you'll find out the same logic applies to all people, and there is no garrantee that any child will be safe, but lets target homeschoolers. Clean up the schools and society before giving up your freedoms.
In middle school my teachers kept the sheep brains and cow eyes we dissected in the same fridge as their lunch.
We homeschool our daughter in New Jersey, and she is thriving both socially and academically. However, when we asked our local school district what we needed to show as far as the curriculum we planned to use and the work she had done, we were told we didn't need to show anything. We literally could, from K-12, just say "yup, she learned it all" and send her off into the world. That's INSANE. There needs to be standards and metrics to ensure kids are learning what they need to no matter where they are schooled.
Completely agree
Newark? Asking for a friend.
Thanks for the voice of reason
Same here. We plan on doing ACT/SAT testing as part of our graduation requirements
But that's how Homeschool Defense wants it. No regulations. So, the whole state and federal governments are afraid of HSLDA.
Who will stand up to them?
I've been a teacher for over a decade. I also have a side gig working at a tutoring center where I, among other things, clean up after parents that homeschool by actually teaching their kid. I knew it was bad; I didn't know it was this bad.
It’s usually done and enacted by crazy hormonal moms on both sides of the political spectrum but particularly snake charming Christians.
My best friends crazy wife wanted to do it. Thank God for the kids he put his foot down.
He’s scared to divorce her because feminazi laws may award her primary custody and then they’re down that rabbit hole.
Hats off to the fathers who plant their foot in the asses of moms who want to do this because they’re know it alls.
I was born in 1988 and the only time I have ever stepped foot in a school building was when I was voting and a local elementary school was using its gymnasium as the polling location. My parents "homeschooled" me and my younger sister for our entire lives, and they did because of very reasonable fears for our safety in our school district and not because they were religious nuts or abusive. There was absolutely zero oversight from anybody to ensure we received an adequate education, and despite their best intentions my parents are terrible teachers and were neither prepared for or equipped to take on that job.
Up until about the 4th grade everything was basically fine, we did basic science, math, English, history and even though we were using course books that were printed in the 70s (because those were the resources my mom was able to find) they worked. But around the time I turned 10 my family ran into some serious financial trouble that was completely outside our control (USA! USA! USA!) and so both of my parents had to get jobs to support us, and that meant our education was put on the back burner so they could keep a roof over our heads. We were left home alone and it was my job to take care of my sister until our parents got home from work, at which point both of them were so exhausted that they could not teach us. And that carried on until we 'graduated'
Neither one of us was at all prepared for the real world, either educationally and socially, and we are both in our 30s and STILL struggling as a result of it. Yes, the American public school system has flaws, and it can and does fail children regularly, but it's better than literally nothing.
And if we focus on funding and improving public schools fewer parents will feel the absolute need to pull their kids for safety, meaning the kids can go to actual school and not become victims of the forces of the economy!
Why didn't they put you in school when they fell on hard times? You had a good foundation to build on.
At least you weren't surrounded by gangs and drugs like most public schoolers in America are
At least you weren't jumped and had the shit kicked out of you weekly for being white by GD gang members, like most of the white kids in my school were.
Even without them going back to work, I have heard countless stories of kids getting to a certain age and their parents were not capable of teaching the curriculum. The ones that learn secondary school material are the ones capable of teaching themselves.
There are very few people able to teach advanced material in every subject. Public school should be the default and then any needs or conflicts should be addressed accordingly.
I was homeschooled 12 years. Got my master's degree...went on to be hospital director and manage the transport and care of every Ebola patient in 2014. I know many surgeons, lawyers, architects and even members of Congress who were homeschooled. Did I enjoy it? No. But it is comparable to a private school education for 1/10 the cost.
Thank you! I am thinking of homeschooling my son because the oublic education system sucks here in nyc & he is currently in private school but it is expensive. The owner of the school regularly gives me materials for him to learn at home and I feel confident enough to teach it to him. I dont think its for everyone but it definitely seems to work for some.
And John is not arguing against homeschooling, he's suggesting we better regulate it.
3 to 5 years of study to learn to be a teacher, how to communicate with young people, how to present information in a digestible manner, and spending several hours every day preparing lesson plans, correcting homework, coordinating with other teachers... Or 3 to 5 minutes googling "how to homeschool". "Comparable to a private school" get out of here.
Ad yet a parent has to stay home for 12 years---what is the cost of that?
As a public high school teacher in Oakland, CA, I can 100% assure you that child abuse is real and we are required by law to report it. It is heartbreaking because many of these kids are so broken by the time they come to my classroom, that I often feel there is nothing I can to do to help them.
All the worst abuse I ever suffered as a child happened in a school.
If you are a high school teacher and you are encountering abuse on the regular basis doesn't that mean that the reporting that you are required to do is ineffective. You are interacting with kids that have been in the system already for 8 years. How is it that the abuse hasn't been reported well before they get to your class?
My respect to you. I’ve been a school bus driver in the Bay Area for 25 years & have had to report things that I saw. Before mandatory reporting, I had 2 brothers, both in counseling. One day a man met them at the bus instead of their mom & the youngest was terrified to get off the bus with this man. I called my office to contact mom & mom said it was OK!!!!!! That kid held onto the bus frame for dear life. But the man took him. I’ll never forget it. I questioned my supervisor & she said there was nothing we could do if mom says it’s ok. It’ll haunt me forever.
@@rectificarationme too. I'm sorry that happened to you. Home schooling would not have been feasible for my family for a number of reasons but I was abused daily in school and I would have loved an opportunity to feel safer and better supported in a home school environment.
As a public school student in your district, I wish my parents home schooled me. I wouldn't have been surrounded by gangs, drug use, and people getting jumped for their belongings at least once a week after school.
As a homeschool parent, I want more oversight as well. Not even taking into account the abusive families, I have seen enough of curriculums that change the narrative to fit their view and just parents who are just lazy and do not care about their kids education. Maybe if there was more oversight, people wouldn't look down on homeschool kids as much as they do.
As someone who did homeschool later on, my mother was baffled that no one ever showed up or came looking for documents, etc.
I ended up just not finishing school a year after starting home-schooling, I would just spend my free-time playing games, etc.
While I turned out fine, I do believe that there should be some standard.
However, we also have to realize that allot of school curriculum is useless for most kids, there is also a significant argument to be had on how 'useless' school can be.
So I don't think we can discuss homeschooling curriculum until we figure out what curriculum matters.
Homeschool kids tend to do well academically. I agree that some oversight would be a good call in some states like mine (MI) where there isn’t any testing or accountability. It’s convenient for us but I can definitely see how that freedom could be abused. Requiring some oversight could also protect homeschool parents. My kids see therapist’s because of some mental disorders and are always hounding us to put them in public school because they’re worried about their education despite our boys being over a grade ahead in most subjects. Good standardized test scores would be an easy way to defend your choice to homeschool.
@@ViolentMLGwhatever you feel are the rights and wrongs of the curriculum, it has been studied, it has been decided in over time by many qualified people. It’s not just thrown together by one unqualified person who uses their own personal biases to decide what to teach and, equally importantly, what not to teach.
I was being bullied in my 4th grade private school so my mom took me out to homeschool. Public school was considered devil worship in her eyes. Pretty much it was me doing independent study with her asking me after she came home from her full time job if I needed help with anything I read. Each time I asked for help it was her reading it straight from the book or spending time herself trying to figure it out. I would either stay at home all day by myself or sit in her car while she worked. I pretty much BS'd my way through school, being graded on things like morals, bible study, attitude, and hygiene. The Christian text books did not help me at all, especially in college. It's great but sad that my biggest accomplishment was graduating with my AA from community college because my education was so lacking and I thrived in a classroom environment with an actual teacher. I'll never homeschool my kids, to my mom's horror. I'm still recovering from the emotional and social aspects of it. Shout out to all the therapists!
The top 50% of Baltimore kids in the 12th grade have a GPA average of less than .7 where 2.0 is a C. It's possible that you would have been in a no win situation.
@@orlock20 They always tell me that, too. The form of homeschooling I got had about a 100% chance of causing emotional damage that I've had to spend my entire adult life repairing. Then people want to point out that, technically, the likelihood of being traumatized in public school is also >0%. However, if you spend large amounts of time in PTSD treatment facilities, you'll notice that people who were homeschooled are MASSIVELY overrepresented.
@@ang0051 Where did I say others are like me? I'm just telling my story and my experience.
@@florin529 isnt a place of "just a story" you wrote that to expose how homeschooling is wrong. all the people who put a thumb up to your comment did that for this reason
Well yeah, if you're an idiot or poor to the point you have to work everyday like most people, you shouldn't think you have the ability to homeschool.
Your mother was a moron who overstepped her limits as a person.
She should have been open to self analysis and come to the realization she wasn't fit to homeschool you.
Your situation is your situation.
I happened to be homeschooled by really good parents all the way until I graduated high school. And while I wouldn’t consider my schooling as being overly rigorous, I did graduate college with a 4.0 and started my own construction business when I was 20.
That being said, growing up as part of the homeschool community in my town, I’ve seen all types of homeschool families. Some with parents who really shouldn’t be in charge of anyone’s education. And as someone who’s volunteered in schools and with children’s programs since I was a teen, I can say there are a lot of parents who should not be the only influence in their children’s lives.
I plan on homeschooling my own children one day, because I’ve experienced how it can be done well. But I know that’s not what’s right for every child and family situation and we need to protect children. Always. Protect our children, always.