WIKITONGUES: John speaking Lojban
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2015
- Recorded in New York City, USA. Lojban is a constructed language that emerged in 1987 as an offshoot of Loglan, which was developed in 1955 to test the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (that the structure of a language affects the cognitive processes of its speaker). Lojbanists sought to refine Loglan's structure as a logical language, void of the subjective ambiguity inherent in natural languages. It is therefore considered to be a 'syntactically unambiguous' tongue, and has been proposed as a potential programming language and means for machine translation.
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"We are often vague, but never ambiguous"
I can't tell if that's a vague or ambiguous statement.
Paradoxically, I think it is precise, because he did explain what those terms mean in that context
@@pomtubes1205 Right, Lojban is as far as I understand it the language which is the nearest to "be mathematically, with language", if that makes sense.
it's neither.
it's only confusing if you don't know how the meaning of vague and ambiguous differ
It's neither, and both.
Your natural voice is strong, dovahkiin...
Genius comment
bruh
@@user-wk2gi5cp9y oh hi.
LMAOOOO NOT THE DRAGONBORN 😭😭😭
I could understand the first 2 minutes, it sounded a lot like English, but after that it got a bit difficult :-)
+Neo The beginning WAS English. But the reading was Lojban.
+Rodrigo Wilson haha. I'm pretty sure he was joking dude. :)
+Neo Rodrigo Wilson is right. The beginning was *definitely* English.
Native English speaker... can confirm
Jizz Fudgsickle That's three against one then. Rodrigo, Adam and Jizz say it's English. Only Maximus dissents from this opinion.
Wait a logical language trying to translate Alice in Wonderland????
Exactly my toughts
I'm sure Lewis Carroll appreciates the irony :)
(Edit: oh and uh, hi, sorry for necroposting. I'm new to conlangs and having fun)
@@DominoPivot nah, it's cool bro. I am also kinda new with this. Is fun
Lojban, though difficult to learn, is much more expressive than any national language
Alice in Wonderland likes to play a lot with logic problems. I would be that the translation of those logic games was quite difficult... alas, I do not have the time to learn Lojban and check up on the fun.
In terms of impression of sound, it shifts periodically between sounding like a Polynesian language and sounding almost gaelic or welsh
Yes I'm getting Celtic, also a bit Hebrew and Chinese
@@peterfilipovic
As a native Hebrew speaker, I can see what you mean but I didn't thought about it.
@@user-hp3tb1lx5u 👌
Yeah the hard Rs are throwing me off
@@ephramsouthards8784whats funny about that is almost any common pronunciation of R is considered valid, purely up to the speaker
alveolar trill? fine
uvular trill? sure
"near open central unrounded vowel" yea that ones valid too
its a fuckin free for all of R sounds
when you're sick of studying grammar in school so you make your own language
Creating a language requaires way more grammar studying then you learn at school
@@bingolingo6555 except that inventing ur own language is way more interesting
@@genius6084 I know
@@bingolingo6555 yeah, but then you can just say that anything you say is correct.
@@Darenz-cg9zg lingua narcissa
rule 1:
Finding this video is like finding gold. I have been trying to find a video of a person speaking Lojban for like forever! Thank you so much
Lojban humor is very deep and multidimensional, but it exists.
😂
When he reads, he's like a vulcan rabbi :D
Your comment is made even greater by the fact that the Vulcan salute was based off of the Jewish Priestly Blessing xD
Vincent Morel Vulcan Rabbi, bahaha. That was classic!
It would be amazing if Star Trek had used Lojban as the Vulcan language. Most spoken artificial language on earth: Klingon.
@@thegardenofeatin5965 I'm pretty sure Esperanto has orders of magnitude more speakers than Klingon...
My name is John and today I'll be speaking wizard
Sounds like a language from elder scrolls lol.
Ahi jiok ni gah Jel'lee-al.
Have you mastered the expert level destruction spells yet?
not yet but I will
defend the stormcloaks in their righteous battle against cyrodiilic imperialism!
"Death to the Stormcloaks!" - Ingrid
Jump to 2:13 for the Lojban reading.
Thanks man!
Or don't...
Sounds like Lojban
😮
damn it really does
It *is* Lojban. Read the title of the video.
@@VulcanOnWheels That's the joke.
@@VulcanOnWheels r/woooosh
I dont remember how I stumbled upon Lojban but I still know that I had an extremely interesting in the night on the IRC where I went through different phases of understanding of the languages principles. At first I was intrigued, then I felt like it wasn't quite as logical and that the core concept of it's grammar was arbitrary. But when I got it I saw how beautiful the language is. I learned it for some weeks but ultimately I realized that there's not that much of a point to it because there aren't many people to speak it with... nevertheless I would love if this became a world language as it has completely changed my understanding of grammar in all languages.
Me too. I've never understood the complex or advanced parts and I don't remember the vocab, but I would love to learn it, if it just were useful.... :(
start a meet up in your town where you hang out, get drunk, and try to speak the language. It'll be fun.
It would be great for passing notes, nobody would be able to read it except you and the recipient, and even if someone had a few hours to try translating it they wouldn't know what to search for.
@@Darenz-cg9zg you'd rather want something that can be learned quickly and be read quickly. This language is convoluted
If you want an IAL, Lojban isn't it. Lojban has far too many nonsensical elements that there wouldn't be enough people interested in even trying to learn it for there to even be a remote chance of it becoming an international language.
You can hear his American accent in his Lojban (I don't even speak Lojban and I can tell).
Not only an American accent but an English language accent.
@@MatthewMcVeagh well both probably
Lojban uses almost the same consonants and vowels as English, so what you're saying is pretty vacuous
Since lojban is conlang.That means that there is no lojban accent
@@patrycjadargacz4909 not necessarily. If there was native speakers there could be an accent but the only conlang with a native speakers is Esperanto
I'm really getting addicted to Lojban lately. It would be so cool if I could really speak it. At first I had my doubts about some language design choices. But now I understand the logic behind them.
"screw me nearly time do you mean Hulu" CC knows whats up
say the alleys shoo-shoo screw me
who shot lou?
Why do I think of The Sims after hearing this???
yes
+Naŋ Ĭļĕÿ yes not a possible answer
Artist formerly known as Al-Mansura-Abbassid or Bob yes
Naŋ Ĭļĕÿ damn you
+Artist formerly known as Al-Mansura-Abbassid or Bob yes
I feel like taking the little time it would have taken to put the side by side transcript up on screen would have done a tremendous service to the viewer...
I'd love to know what Volapük sounds like. Maybe you guys can get some Volapük speaker on here.
You don't learn a language by memorizing you learn through use just when you learned your mother tongue. Yes you must learn the grammar,syntax and sentence structure but you learn vocab by speaking,and writing.
And by speaking and writing it, you adapt and transform it, especially if someone else speaks/ writes it back to you.
yeah, but by memorizing you can learn faster than by completely immersing yourself for 6 years
Humans can be amazing at times. As a human, thank you for sharing this video with us! I love languages and Lojban sounds like a very cool language to me. I especially like the lack of ambiguity, although sometimes that's where all of the fun is in other languages.
Very interesting - never heard of Lojban or Loglan before. Cheers John.
Wow! I had no idea about this. I thought that Espernto, Klingon were the only constructed spoken languages.
Oh, there are many more! In particular, Esperanto inspired the development of several conlangs, like Ido, Interlingue, Interlingua, and more. It's a deep field. If this is your first time on our channel, welcome! We post new videos of (mostly natural, not constructed) languages every week :)
Michele G, you've gotta be joking. There are thousands of them, possibly tens of thousands by now. I'm heading a project to create a database of them, God knows how long it'd take to collect them all but it's not likely we'd ever get there.
@@MatthewMcVeagh And how was I supposed to know this, my speciality is something else. I could say "God you gotta be kidding me?", about something of which I'm well versed in such terrorism profiling, creating characters and their backstories that you might not be well, treating your posible limited knowledge as ignorance and attempting to ridicule you as you tried to do me. So good luck on you work but dial back on the attitude. Yes, your enthusiasm is great and I'm sure your research will help others but instead of trying to make others feel small try to educate and inform instead. Ok. Good.
@@FoodNerds bruh you really threatening someone over a slightly passive aggressive youtube comment?
@@MatthewMcVeagh hey man post a link here if you have something of the database done, id love to hear
It sounds like the letter "L" is being used a lot in this language.
it's in many 'sentence structure' particles, so that's why...
Tarik360 it's the first letter of the language's name. Of course it's used alot, like English uses the letter E a lot
(It's actually a coincidence.)
*It looks like the letter "L" is liked a lot in this language
FTFW
The words that go before nouns almost all start with l
Lojban starts at 2:13
This is such a beautiful sounding language
The moment you realize that you are not a geek, after all...
I absolutely don't get it.
The point of Loglan (and so by extension Lojban) is supposedly the ability to speak precisely. Every sentence having only one possible meaning. Providing the possibility of speaking out loud long mathematical equations, arguments, statements, or even low level code, allegedly. There was even the hypothesis that speaking this language daily would possibly change the everyday behaviour of the speaker to a more calculated and logical one.
So WHY in hell would anyone dot this language with the j, l and h sounds so frequently and in such close proximity to each other? It makes no sense.
There is a reason that the popular notation for addition and subtraction are lines, multiplication and division are dots, exponentiation and logarithmic stuff is noted by changing the position and size of the characters (using the sub- and superscript characters in typed form), and calculus invents its own notation completely different from the previous ones mentioned. And that point is an effort to rule out ambiguity and aid with quick recognition.
For all they are talked up to be, Loglan and Lojban do exactly none of that. I'll take anyone's word for how well structured the mechanics of the grammar are, but that is unfortunately useless if I can't tell the integral from the decimal point when looking straight at it.
For those of you not mathematically inclined: I expected a spoken language where structure is beautiful and apparent, and I got a guy in the desert trying to cast a spell to summon Shai-Hulud. In every sentence.
Sounds like something out of Sims
Video starts at 2:14
You're welcome
LOL take autogenerated english subtitles on, and go to 3:18..
kkk
LOL!
Sell shoes shoes shoes...
I'm counting that amongst the good decisions I've made today. XD That's hilarious. Yes I have the humor of a 5 year old.
2:26 "me do simply no format" It is trying to communicate o.o
2:56 "maneuver leave be lady who say a bullshit"
A good video on lojban at last!
The opposite of Toki Pona
I liked the "screw me Newark light" passage.
Every conlang should be run through ASR, and the resultant "Engish" should be an acceptable romanization. Would make it if not easier, at least more entertaining.
"The Lucy Liu honey hole" passage was a tiny bit too frisky for my sensitive eyes/ears.
Ooh boy
I actually like the way it sounds:)
Sounds like it’s from a fantasy world, kind of like LOTR.
Well I must say it's a nice sounding language! :)
"I wrote a grammar book about it... I'm just no good at memorizing vocabulary" First time I've ever come across another person whose brain works like this. I take great pleasure in learning and comparing the phonology, writing systems, and grammar of various languages, but never develop any interest in learning the vocabulary.
So this language is basically a giant dangling participle.
This is about how a Russian, seeing a Czech text for the first time, reads it out loud, trying to look as if he has been reading Czech texts all his life.
I would love to have the Lojban transcription of this.
I recognized some of the words from back when I studied it a bit. I should go back to it again 😊
For some weird reason, the playback triggered "Hey Google" on a smart clock at my table, and it actually said, "I do not understand what you mean"!
You and me both, clock...
This is really interesting ! But how do you translate something from a language that does have ambiguous sentences into one that doesn't without any mistakes ?
That's just what I thought. It's not so much that you risk making mistakes, as that the natural ambiguity of natural languages means that there can be multiple 'correct' interpretations of a piece of language - this is the case with punning of course, or with utterances/texts where misunderstanding is crucial to the plot.
@@MatthewMcVeagh Listen to what he says at the start. It's not that you can't say ambiguous things -- you absolutely can, just as in literally any other language. You can be as expressive and/or creative as you want. But that's *semantic* ambiguity. Lojban does not remove *all* ambiguity, it just can't be *syntactically* ambiguous. That means when you read or hear a Lojban bridi, it's absolutely clear how to *parse* it, but the *meaning* of the sentence need not be. If you want to say something that could only be understood within a specific context (and thus be misunderstood outside of context), you can. You could easily create, say, comedy sitcoms similar to Three's Company in Lojban. There can still be plenty of ambiguity about what the bridi *means.* A speaker can leave out all sorts of information leaving room for lots of ambiguity. In fact, having the freedom to be as ambiguous as you like is what makes a language more expressively powerful. Lojban allows you to leave out a large amount of information leaving context to fill in the gaps. More so than English in fact; take things like tense or number or gender as examples. Heck, Lojban can be just as contextually ambiguous as even toki pona! In toki pona "jan pi pana sona pi toki pona," can mean both, "teacher of toki pona," and, "teacher (it is not clear what they teach) that happens to know toki pona." This specific kind of ambiguity never happens in Lojban, but the most *common* type of ambiguity in toki pona is *semantic* ambiguity, which happens in Lojban all the time. Arguably even more than in natural languages, due to the common use of tenru, a grammar type in Lojban that's inherently ambiguous by design. You could disambiguate them by adding specifiers like in any other language, but you don't ever *have* to. You can make "in-jokes" where only you and a person who is "in" on it can understand what you *really* mean, like in any other language, etc, etc.
@@HealyHQ So the ambiguity that's avoided is grammatical?
I think language reflects and is developed within the environment in which the speakers reside. If the speaker moves, the language changes in ways to adapt for environmental changes. If a language is created without an natural environment, it will not be natural and cannot be as equal to an evolutionary language. However the first language and environment of the creator of the language can serve as a base environment. The new language will be diminished in scope.
"saying that sultry shooting pinka show who la blondie." CC crew understands.
It's like a blend of European languages with little chunks of Arabic. I kind of like it
So am i right in that this language was invented to be more logical and eliminate confusion when speaking to people?
It's more of an experiment than anything.
It was more constructed to be more logical in the way that it functions. Like how English has several nonsensical rules, this language tries to remove such rules and make it as logical and straightforwards as possible.
@@mimotakito1114 What are the nonsenical rules used in english?
@@Liam-O1 the way though, through, thorough, thought, tough, trough are all spelled similar and all have drastically different pronounciations, words can mean different things depending on where the stress is given (ADDress, adDRESS), plurals dont follow a set pattern, all of our grammar rules, silent letters, "ph". These are just some of the things in english that make it not only hard for native speakers to speak it but also for learners. ofc other languages have dumb rules as well. Lojban attempts to reduce the amount of stupid stuff like this as much as possible
@@mimotakito1114 Those are orthography complaints, not Grammar rules. English grammar is pretty straight forward as English has no gender or real case system.
The (Address, Address) point is pretty mute considering it only occurs rarely and usually distinguishes between the noun use and the verb use of a form("Here is your pay" vs "I pay you everyday") . Address is used in terms of direction, Address as a noun is the location where someone vs to address something is to send to or face towards something/someone to a certain location. The given context and word structure of English makes it pretty clear when a word is meant as a noun or a verb. Verbs are actions and they're usually directly after a noun to portray said noun performing an action or being acted upon whereas nouns do not come directly after another noun except commas or "and" is being used.
So awesome, lenguages are so beautiful.
+Cleptosaurios *languages :)
I turned on subtitles and was even more confused about what was being said than if I didn't have them.
seems like perfect grammar with an imperfect dictionary
The idea behind it seems like a benign version of Newspeak
+Pikaia Gracilens That isn't really an accident. The language was originally an experiment to test whether the language a person speaks actually influences the way they think and/or how they see the world. Like Newspeak; except instead of oppressing the populace, lojban tries to foster logical thinking (which I'd argue many people could benefit from).
the goals behind newspeak and Lojban are very different.
Pikaia Gracilens Newspeak dumbs people down. Lojban helps people think. They are opposed to one another.
5:42 LG alarm
I had to check whether it was in real life ir the video.
I wonder what lojban poetry looks like 🤔
If someone told me this was an alien or magical language, I would believe it
Makes me think of a mix of the Gaelic languages and Dothraki....
this week in "Will it blend?" - The Nordic languages.
La-li-lu-le-lo! La-li-lu-le-lo! La-li-lu-le-lo!
Is it me or did that sound like the Sims language 😂😂
I learned about this from reading The moon is a harsh mistress
where ist a book abovt ?
Makes me think of the language of myst mixed with dothraki
slavoj?
Where can I learn ???
ua-cam.com/video/RfdcG5iPJpA/v-deo.html (I haven’t tried this)
Is this the first conlang they've did
text please ?
It sounds like tribal languages i have seen in discovery channel.
Whatever that means...
i cant tell if the voice crack i another accent
this video is funny to watch with english subtitles on
It's engineer's language indeed. They don't care about what it sounds.
In fact, they care. Sound system was specially designed.
The only thing tihis video lacks, is subtitles written in zbalermorna.
Is the language phonology somehow similar to English? Or is it just his accent? I say it because of the R's mainly.
The Rs can be like the English, Spanish, French, or Chinese Rs I believe
esperanto: Loĵban bono lingvo.
Pierro: Lojban bona mala.
Nice :)
I legit thought he was blind in the first minute of the video
Wow that sounds epic. I wanna learn this language
Sounds like an Arabic guy trying to speak polish and is not doing very well xD
haaaaaaa, /i bit you can learn Arabic if you even hd another 100 year to live. So dont mock people. People who know arabic, which I am sure you are not of, have increased intelligence considerably.
and what languge you can speak,
if any
You're a fucking idiot. Get off the internet.
Monther Meqdadi, calm down dude.
ما سب العرب اهدء .
So it's like in other languages you can go on for hours about what a fuzzy image is, a person, object, simply a smudge? But this language says this is smudge. Smudge. SMUDGE. Joking of course :)
It's like if you told a robot to make up a language.
Lojban vs Ithkuil ?? which is more logical ?
I think it's Ithkuil. But Ithkuil is tootootoo hard though..lol
Sounds like Vulcan but it is supposed to be logical so makes sense
It ha strong indic languages vibe
The Sumerian would sound like this.
Catalan also has this article thing for people's names. I wonder if they got the idea from that.
It's not just Catalan, by a long shot
@@user-pk9qo1gd6r for example?
@@roiq5263 Brazilian Portuguese, Ancient and Modern Greek, Luxembourgish and many regional variants of German, I think Maori if I'm not mistaken - those are just off the top of my head
@@user-pk9qo1gd6r well, I knew that about German, but German uses the definite article (der, die) if I'm not mistaken. Catalan has a dedicated article only for personal names (en, na).
The captions are another thing
This is cool, but I don't understand how he can be an expert on the language enough that he wrote a book and not speak it... This is coming from a polyglot. I guess it's just because it's a constructed language?
+Nadia Rosenberg Lojban has basically no idioms (or very few). Therefore, in contrast to natural languages, knowing the grammar is enough for you to be idiomatic. In other languages you need to know hudnreds of idiomatic expressions (fix phrases and stuff). The only other thing besides the grammar is the vocabulary you'd need for lojban to be fluent in it, nothing else. Therefor you can have idiomatic potential by knowing the grammar only, without actually being able to speak the language. Did that make sense to you?
ElizaberthUndEugen Yes, thank you!!
+ElizaberthUndEugen But any language in active use will develop idioms.
reinpost yes, which is a good thing. But so far lojban does not have many.
+Nadia Rosenberg It's a rather unique situation. It's a living language with a community that speaks it, but it's not that he studied that living language to write a book about it-- in fact strangely enough it's the other way around: He wrote the book before anyone spoke the language, and we brought the language to life by following the instruction of his book.
¿John Quijada?
Kan ek met jou dans, John?
Turn on the captions, thank me later.
“…he saw Lucy Lui Lee honey hole ooh boy…”
The guy can occidentally open up the doors to hell with such mantras!
Sounds like Mandarin mixed with Korean & other East Asian Languages.
I don't think it sounds like Korean at all
Sounds like simolian and the Skyrim languages
So lobjan is inspired by Hebrew praying
Sounds like someone speaking spanish+clingon.
spanish is nothing like that
sounds like he's cursing
+Paramone Gaming The intonation and the cadence of the vowels is very spanish-like. I tell you this as a native spanish. Granted, it doesn't sound 100% spanish, either. But I can see where his comment is coming from.
+Emishi Akayomi I am also a native spanish speaker and it sounds nothing like spanish to me, and actually im from one of the least accented countries AKA Peru (much like urban mexican)
+Oli Cansdale *Klingon
Sorry but I like to hear this,yes i like it
The idea of constructing a universal language is not bad and can even succeed to some extent. The trouble is that it is hard to keep such a language alive and to achieve a new sight of the world. This sight can only project it partially.
As far as I know Lojban has not achieved such a thing and will doom. Esperanto did develop such a phraseology successful and is really a vivid language, today.
I am afraid that no-one will talk about Lojban in a few decades, unless it has reached such a vitality as Esperanto.
I don't like the idea of a universal language. It seems to me like an attempt at homogenization of all of the world's immensely diverse cultures. Besides, as of now, most constructed languages meant for universal use are really only good for Westerners. They're made by Westerners, spoken by Westerners, and constructed with mainly Indo-European phonology. It reminds me of the forced assimilation period in the US, when Natives and Cajuns were taught in English, and prevented from speaking in their own languages. Some said it was too make communication easier, but it was really to forcefully impose certain cultural values.
I'm sorry, that's just the vibe Esperanto and Lojban give me.
No, the creators of lojban. specifically avoided that. Lojban. is made up of words from the worlds 6 most spoken languages...English, Russian, Arabic, Mandarin, Hindi, and Spanish. It also belongs to no culture either making it a totally neutral language and good for anyone of any culture to learn without bias. The syntax is based on 'logic' as it is a logical language, it has no bias towards Indo-European languages.
I hear what you're saying but it's definitely not 'totally neutral' to be based on six huge languages that, between them, have already helped to wipe out countless hundreds of others lol
Wolfram Hüttermann Lojban's purpose is to be a logical language, NOT an international auxiliar language.
The word "klama" reminds me of Famagalo for some reason.
You think it moves you in that direction?
Wasn't the idea of the series to talk in the language, to give an example of spontaneous speech, not to just read a passage from paper?..
Did you listen at all to what he said BEFORE he read the passage?
Just asking :)
yeah, though probably not very attentively; I know general things about lo??an :)
:D
Even if you're speaking in your first language, spontaneous speech is not easy for many people.
the longest conversation ever recorded in spontaneous lojban was only around 3 minutes. lojban is so different from the way the brain works with language, that the majority of conversations are only online.