The Biggest Flaw from The Duel of the Fates
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- Опубліковано 21 чер 2024
- #starwars #starwarsprequels #disneystarwars #lucasfilm
Here's the biggest problem with the duel of the fates. Darth Maul vs Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi was a really exciting duel, but it's hard to unsee some of the overly choreographed moment.
The phantom menace, attack of the clones and revenge of the sith have some of the best lightsaber fights in star wars, but they are not without some flaws. - Фільми й анімація
"I don't know why this was left in the movie"
"If you blink you'll miss it."
*It reminds me of how 🥴🤤 most Star Wars fans in the internet are - forgetting basics of how the Force works in duels - the Jedi and Sith can see the future several seconds ahead of them - which is why the lightsaber duels are so complex in terms of their variables.*
*A Disney-Shill attempted to critique this duel as well - as a response to fans critisizing Rey's duel with Snoke's guards in TLJ - but whereas Rey's duel was laughibly bad choreography (a guard had a clean no-risk shot at Rey and missed on purpose at the last second) Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's duel with Maul is different - in that it involved clairvoyance (which Snoke's guards don't have) so the Jedi and Sith see the future and its risks and have to compensate for them by not taking certain actions (such as Maul not mutilating Obi-Wan to avoid Qui-Gon's lethal counter) so duel of the fates choreography is very much justified.*
😂
@@Percival-kl9yylol can see the future… until they can’t. Nothing is perfect and neither are the light saber duels in the prequels.
It doesn't work like that@@ToTheNines87368
Seriously tho
Maybe Maul knew Jin could kill him, so he made a decision to save himself instead of go for a kill? but yeah a little nick with a lightsaber would of helped his odds
In the position he was in he could have fatally sliced obi and the other side of his lightsaber would have been ready to defend
Kicking him away even, these spins and the focus on “hit the lightsaber with the lightsaber” is what makes the fighting bad, idc if you have a professional choreographer who defeated all four musketeers in a fencing duel at once, if he choreographs your actors to act like actors then it’s gonna look like acting, if you make it look like nobody is trying to actually kill each other then, what do you know, it won’t look like anybody is trying to actually kill each other!
@@wyattcole5452I think the analysis of this clip is a bit off. if Maul twisted his saber down he could’ve also chopped Kenobi completely in half, qui-gon clashing with the blade stopped that possibility
@@wyattcole5452it's an issue in most movies. It's go for weapon contact rather than trying to hit the opponent/s. Also when it's 2v1 having one just stand there for a while waiting to be basically tagged in.
@@oliverwange8264 they can do better they just don’t want to, the directors with that patience rarely ever do sword fights
Maul was also instructed by Plagues and Sideous to kill Qui Gon at all costs. I wonder how that plays into this.
Darth plagues dosnt knew maul exist
@@FirieifjcjfbdkdjekDjkdndldhdkHe did he told sidious to only train maul as an sith assassin because of the rule of two but sidious didn't listen to him and trained maul for 18 years without Plaugius knowing
@@mrkakaboboexactly
That’s also legends, not canon.
@@dustinwalls5960it was Canon until Disney, inwhich case fuck Disney anyway
I think Maul recognised that if he did take that killing blow, if would over extend him and he would die. He was trying to both win and survive.
Exactly. I imagine sith apprentices by then knew that they were expendable to a degree, and he obviously didn't wanna die and be replaced.
@@andrewterry6538of course Maul knew he was expendable. Maul understood that he and Palpatine would overthrow Plagueis and the rule of two would continue. Maul only became arrogant once he had defeated qui-gon and all but defeated obi-wan and it was only thanks to Qui-Gon’s teachings that obi-wan was able to refocus himself and notice Qui-Gon’s lightsaber at maul’s feet.
If Maul was struck by Qui Gon, Maul would have brought the saber down and killed him. At the angle Qui Gon hit on Maul’s saber.
And he was told to kill Qui-Gon. Not Obi-Wan. Not that he wouldn't try to kill Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan wasn't his main target.
That does NOT compute. Overextend himself? He positions his saber on his far-right side and holds it there waiting for Jin to aim for it. His entire back was already exposed. Whereas had he actually swirled his lightsaber over his hands as he had been doing the whole fight, showing of his twirls, he could've actually protected himself after striking Kenobi. The justifications people pull out of the air to try and defend Star War's plot suffocated choreography is frustrating.
I mean, obi wan still needs to appear in a new hope
Ladies and gentlemen, this is what we call “plot armour
@@Gamemaster15568frr
😂@@Gamemaster15568
@Gamemaster15568 obi wan strong with the plot armour 😂
@@Gamemaster15568 i wouldnt call that plot armour cause if he went for kill he died and his goal was to kill qui gon and not obi wan
It makes sense that Qui Gon would strike like that, he was likely prioritizing Obi Wan’s safety over winning. Meetra Surik does a similar move when she Revan and Scourge fought the emperor, throwing her saber at the emperor’s hand to protect Revan instead of killing the emperor. It makes perfect sense when you take into account how Jedi are raised, and their inherit beliefs.
And Qui Gon's own regard for Obi Wan
Yeah but Qui Gon aiming for maul's top end of the lightsaber wasn't going to help obi wan anyways.
Where was this fight featured? In SWTOR or comics? I'd like to check it out!
@@SL92018 the Revan novel. Don't check it out, it's awful.
@@SL92018 It's in the novel, "Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan."
sometimes when U fight in the ring, and then U watch Yourself after that, You might also said to Yourself "Why I have done this and havent done that?"
Right? Mistakes were made. Nobody's perfect. No deep lore for why someone turned and left themselves open.
Yes but the most seasoned of fighters will tell you to never turn your back on your opponent lmao
@@thesaltshaker704yet professionals do this quite often.
@@zacharybryant3865 Sword fighters in movies especially.
Completely agree, was thinking the same
As someone who's trained in using a sword. You'd like to think you'd always take the opportunity to end the fight but sometimes when going thru the fight you miss these because you're to busy completing a move or trying to go for a defensive move.
Or maybe qui-gon was putting obi-one's life above killing darth maul, cause if he had killed maul at that point he could have kept going down and cut obi-one in half and not in the way you survive
Now that you mention it, it looks like Mual violently threw his whole body weight at Obi Wan to die with him if Qoi Gon dared.
That's exactly how I see it. If Maul just kept bringing that top blade downward in the direction he was moving, it would have sliced Kenobi in half. I see it more as Qui Gon blocking that potential strike, and deciding to save his Padawan's life, opposed to just going for a killing blow and losing Obi both.
As someone with a good few years with swordfighting I didn't see him strike maul I saw him blocking a strike from above
I think Maul tried to take the killing blow on Obi from his top blade, but Qui blocked it.
If you look at qui gon's hit, it's actually not an attack its a defense. Maul was swinging down to hit obi wan (you can even see obi wan duck), and even if qui gon killed maul there his saber would still fall and cut through obi wan. However maul did definitely miss an opportunity to kill obi wan there, nice spot!
Was about to comment that, until I saw your comment. That is exactly that, a defense from the down swing, not an attack.
I mean I think palpatine told maul to kill qui gon and not obi wan
Actually maul couldn’t take a killing blow because he was defending from a flurry of attacks after just having his own flurry defended. It’s called intelligence and combat effectiveness
Yep!!
He knew it would leave him open
I think Qui-Gon went for Maul’s blade to prevent Maul from being able to strike downwards, which would kill Obi-Wan.
And also as others pointed out, Maul wants to survive as well as win. He wouldn’t want to make a move so risky for himself.
But also, it could simply be an overlooked part of the choreography.
Or maybe they are only human (ish) and made mistakes during their fight.
I was thinking the same, glad someone else agrees
@@brighamrichins3in a life or death situation there are no mistakes. If a master swordsman finds an error in their oppenent's technique he will use it to his advantage
I think the same Qui Gon go for the blade to protect Obi Wan and stop Maul saber locking his movement.
@@theempire3141 maul wasnt master but yeah qui gi gon was one but even masters make mistakes in combat no matter what your skilled on occasionally you make a mistake here and there
Maul was trained by Sidious, both of whom are part of Banes Rule of Two. Bane, against his greatest rival at the time, intentionally avoided taking openings to end the duel quickly, luring his opponent into a false sense of security to not just defeat him, but to absolutely destroy Sirak and crush him like a bug. He implemented this into his teachings and Darth Maul likely was using the weaknesses of Obi-Wan to offset the skill of Qui-Gon (similar to how Darth Zannah fought against jedi in the 2nd bane book). By doing this, Maul can lure the 2 jedi to a place of his choosing in order to win against both easier. If Obi-Wan wasn't there, there's a good chance they wouldn't have ended up at the reactor shaft and Maul would've used his youth strength and speed to overwhelm Qui-Gon Jinn. The only way to lure them both into a "killzone" is by using the weaker duelists inexperience against both Jedi.
Yeah or just Force push them from the ledge😂
@@_CC-3636 might work against a padawan but not a Jedi master. You just act like people can just force push you. Especially in a duel. You’re more focused on the fight itself and trying not to be cut in half as well as keeping your force shield up to prevent your opponent from using the force to fuck with you mid-battle. Maul would not have been able to overpower qui-gon with the force. He wasn’t anywhere near Palpatine when it came to strength with the force.
I was about to mention the force shield.@@youarewrong57
Perhaps Qui Gon knew that Obi Wan was about to be killed and so acted in that way to prevent Maul from killing him
No, it was just terrible choreography.
@@kommisar.possibly, but it’s not easy as it sounds to make it flow in a 1v2. Training 3 people for this sort of fight looks like a headache to make right.
No quigon . Only focus in that scene was to protect Obi-Wan and didn't go into full attack mode until It was just him and maul, he was in parental protection mode in my opinion.
I agree…
He answered his own question. How can they leave it in? Cause it was a blink and you miss it moment
Except these guys rehearse these scenes many, many times under supervision in order to get them right, so the choreographers/director should have seen it.
It's also possible that Maul simply didn't recognize the opportunity in time. These duels are very fast, so capitalizing on an opponent's mistake has to be made incredibly fast. Maul may have noticed only after the opportunity was already gone.
It's not some genius decision, it's literally just a choreography mistake, where a fake fight accidently leaves open an obvious kill shot opportunity twice within the same second.
@@timbradshaw5481 I concede this is the most likely reason for why it happened, however limiting it may be. Still, I think if showrunners and content creators are to ever explore Maul's character more, it helps to have material they can pull from to explain the decisions he later makes. Whereas this might have been a simple mistake in choreography, it can go on to speak to weaknesses in Maul's philosophy which ultimately lead to his conclusion in Rebels. Indeed, Star Wars has always leaned on unspoken moments with unrecognized implications. At least, that's been my understanding of the narrative purpose of the force.
@@Sketchymage What were the weaknesses in Maul's philosophy? And how does missing an obvious kill shot within a split second corrolate with these weaknesses?
@@Sketchymage This has nothing to do with the Force or any of that canon crap. The fact is any half-decent weapons fighter would have seen that opening and any half-decent weapons fighter wouldn't be using spin attacks. This was just hot garbage.
@@timbradshaw5481 I guess by philosophy he meant toying with them, or using Obi-Wan to weaken Qui-Gon, as we see Qui-Gon defending Obi-Wan and not killing Maul. Choreography absolutely should sell and compliment character. i.e. the decision to save Kenobi instead of stopping Maul.
There are other comments talking about how the Sith line has been trained by Bane. I don't see how any of that factors in here and external sources should usually not need be consulted for something like this.
Where are the two kill shots? Watch the clip without the guy pausing or slowing it.
The weight of the saber throws Qui-Gon back, Obi-Wan does the same to Maul. He's knocked back for at least 2 of Obi-Wan's strikes and just has time for defending from the third.
Killing Obi-Wan likely results in his death to Qui-Gon there.
Qui-Gon cannot kill Maul there or Obi-Wan likely dies too.
It doesn't appear to be a choreography mistake, but it's not sold perfectly by Ray Park. However he very clearly is stepping backwards every time they clash. The first strike even lifts him into the air, he's still reeling by the time Kenobi finishes the spin. "Lightsabers are very heavy" is intentional throughout.
There's a worse moment before those two, as Kenobi enters the frame, behind his blue saber, both Maul and Qui-Gon spin at each other after clashing, Qui-Gon is using the momentum from Maul, but Maul could have struck him as he spun from it. There's nothing Obi-Wan could have done here.
It’s less of a mistake and more of a showing that not everyone thinks clearly in the heat of a fight. Looking back on a fight with a clear perspective and no adrenaline is way different than being a part of it in that moment
When locked in intense battle, you rarely analyze everything.
Good catch however I believe the intent of the choreography there is to show maul striking Kenobi with the other non blocked blade. This downward strike would have killed Kenobi before Qui could have struck down Maul. So Qui blocked the strike saving Kenobi but missing the killing blow on Maul. This is most likely an either poor moment in the choreography or a poorly acted moment of good choreography.. perhaps the intention was.to show the downward strike starting more clearly before Qui enters the frame but it was just mistimed.
Except Obi Wan would have been in a position to block that downward attack since it meant Maul would have had to pull back the blade Obi Wan was currently blocking in order to hit him with the other one from above. This would have allowed Obi Wan to block. Do you not know how a staff works? You can't attack with both ends at the same time.
@@kommisar.Except a blade would work differently than a staff. With that said, like I mentioned it was either poorly acted good choreography or poor choreography, so I understand your point.
@@christian11111 It was a staff with two blades, so your point is still moot.
@@kommisar. No it was a lightsaber, a non real weapon which does not act like a staff more like a double bladed weapon, but even still the ends of the lightsabers have no weight so even then it's not comparable.
Additionally if you had learned martial arts use of a staff you would know that an attack using the center, or in multi attacker training, both ends, of the staff is a realistic technique. In this case maul wasn't doing that so I respect your position, but to claim I don't know how a staff works when you don't even know me, and are wrong, doesn't help prove your point. Instead stick with the first position where you rightly point out that if maul attacks with the other end then it leaves an opening for ObiWan to strike, meaning Quis block is unnecessary, and thus just poor choreography.
@@christian11111 If you have a straight weapon that doesn't bend, then in order to move one end you have to move the other. Doesn't matter if it's a lightsaber staff in a science fiction movie or a real staff from the medieval period. He can't hit Obi Wan with the other end without moving the end that he had just swung at him that Obi Wan is currently blocking. In other words, he can't hit him with both ends of the lightsaber at the same time, therefore him retracting the lightsaber to swing the other end would allow Obi Wan to block that. This isn't real complicated stuff. It's pretty self-explanatory once you look at it and use two brain cells. This is just bad choreography, and for some reason your fanboyism can't accept that.
Possibly, The only reason Qui-gon Gym (pun intended) did that Move to deflect Darth maul's lightsaber is probably to protect Obi-Wan
That's what I was thinking. He went high to block maul's downward strike
@@aeureus high ground
@@mistylover7398 it's over mistylover7398. I have the real high ground
@@aeureus YOU UNDERESTIMATE MA POWER!!!!!!!!!!
@@mistylover7398 don't try it mistylover7398
This is why real sword fighting looks so much different than choreographed fights.
When Ray Park choreographed this he said that every move the characters are seeing into the future the consequences of their move and picking the one most advantageous. Which I just think is cool as hell.
Qui Gon and Obi wan fought in sync. You can see from the clip why qui aimed for the top saber. Maul was gonna do an over head strike on obiwan and qui gon protected him. It happens a lot with Jedi usually the apprentice attacks head on and the master supports counters, parry’s, and other defensive tactics to supplement the apprentices lack of.
Don’t forget that Disney made it so Qui-Gon should have survived being stabbed
disney did NOT make the prequesl. do you mean IF they made it?
@@Johnadams20760 what? I didn’t say they created the prequels I said that they made it so Qui-Gon should have survived being stabbed as ever since Disney bought Star Wars, Lightsabers are nowhere near as lethal as they used to be and anyone even non force sensitives can survive getting stabbed which means Qui-Gon should have survived.
Bafta tanks were invented 20 minutes after quigon dies according to some meme :P
@@furiousgamerxz5141 and don't forget maul survives being chopped in half with a lightsaber 5 minutes after
@@khit007 yeah but he used the Dark Side to survive which was unnatural but now a days Jedi can do it and even non force sensitives can do it
I've noticed that in a lot of the saber choreography in Star wars that the combatants aim for the sabers and not for the opponent. When you start really looking at how the fight is done you start to realize how stupid it looks. They don't aim for the person, it's not a battle of people it's a battle of light sabers. They are just attacking the saber and not the person. It becomes obvious that the stunt choreography is not done by real life practical swordsmen.
Most fight scenes across all movies do this the prequels actually do it a lot less than usual. Also qui gon isn’t just aiming for mauls lightsaber for nothing he’s clearly blocking a downward attack that would hit obi wan who’s unable to block at that moment
Yes indeed. I’ve done fencing for a while, these lightsaber fights are way too over choreographed. Once you see them aiming for each others lightsabers you keep noticing it everywhere. Afaik the sequels do this a little better(but to be honest because they’re such bad movies I watched them only in the cinema and once at home, so I don’t know the duels as well.) On the other hand the sequel duels have their own flaws, and I prefer the prequel duels.
It’s worse than the narrator describes.
If Jinn had simply arced his cut slightly lower to pass through the saberstaff’s midpoint, there’s almost no chance that the upper portion of the severed saberstaff would remain ignited.
The high block only makes sense if Jinn was operating from a mindset of no amount of risk to Obi Wan being tolerable, in which case why is he being allowed to take part in this duel?
Watch the slowed down portion closely. You’ll see how unnatural it looks, the way Neeson raises himself to go into the ground-parallel high cut. A lower, upward-angling slash makes more sense and does nearly as much to safeguard Obi Wan while at the *very* least doing catastrophic injury to Maul’s torso.
They still made it look cool. Unlike Acolyte where everything was blocked by a tree
as a kendo learner and a huge star wars fan, some of these lightsaber duels just somehow piss me off
ladies and gentlemen let me introduce you to the master of masters of light saber masters...no darth sidious, no count doku, no yoda, no anakim skywalker, no mace windu, no one could ever stand a chance against him... he's literally him... @RealComfyNerd
You could argue, though, that the fact that Kwon hit his upper side on the double blade to be the weight counter force that shifted the bottom part of the saber away from Kenobi after Qui on struck it on the top
I went to the Mall of America and still didn't see a single Mega Rayquaza raid. You're right that playing in urban areas is better yet for the last elite mega raids it still didn't matter much, that's how much they messed it up.
Jin’s swing is a defensive measure to protect obi won, he saw the opening as you did and saw that maul could have killed him so he moved to force maul to keep his lightsaber in the same position, so maul couldn’t cut down obi won, with their force abilities they both sensed this which is why it actually works
I miss this kind of choreography, even with some tiny flaws it's still unmatched compared to what we've got from the sequels and tv shows
Whenever you fight with a weapon you always think about two to three (depending on how proficient you are, the more proficient, the more movements you "foresee") movements after your next. As commented above he probably didn't use that opening so that he could be ready to parry Qui-Gon immediately after AND in the lore the three of them are using Force Speed to fight. It is very clear the strategy of Darth Maul: he realizes that if he faces both of them he could certainly take one of them but would be immediately strike him and he would die. Even though Sidious probably knew that he only needed to kill Qui-Gon for his objective, Maul didn't want to kill only one Jedi and die. So he slowly isolates Qui-Gon and kill him and when he does so he thought he already won. Obi-Wan used EVERYTHING he had AND an opening in Maul's guard because of his arrogance of underastimating Obi-Wan fighting alone. I respect the dedication to watch the whole duel though, good video.
True, if Maul was supposed to kill Ben. But Sidious ordered Maul to kill Qui-gon, and only Qui-gon. He did this because Qui-gon was the only person who could see through his plans, and become the father figure Anakin needed. In order for Sidious to get his plans fulfilled, he needed to become the father figure, and blind all the Jedi to the rising darkness. Obi-wan was to teach Anakin swordsmanship and the force, while Sidious earned his loyalty. This was no mistake…
GOOD POINT 🎉. Then, without Obi, we would get to have a WHAT IF Obi One died in the Dual of Faiths.
As someone who's done sword-based martial arts, it's incredibly easy to miss openings and chances in the moment, which seem obvious later on when watching back. Small missed opportunities in fights like this shouldn't lead to criticisms of bad choreography - if anything, it's more realistic.
And the second thing to consider is that landing a fatal blow doesn't always make someone tense up, and quite often, the blow that they were trying for would complete itself with existing momentum. Had Maul sliced up at Obi-Wan there, he would have killed him, yes, but he also would likely have been injured or killed by Obi-Wan's attack.
The issue with sword choreography in many movies, is that they aim for the blades, instead of the user
Yup. 100%
"Oh wait, he aims for the top of the lightsaber..."
To block Maul's death stroke at Obi Wan.
Cmon, man.
Maul is selfish and knew that if he attacked Obi-Wan, it would've left him vulnerable to Qui Gon, so, not wanting to die, he passed up the opportunity. Also, he was ordered to kill Qui Gon at all costs. He might have been selfish, but he wasn't stupid enough to go against his master.
He got distracted. Didn’t think about it. Also, he was playing with his food.
All three were being led by each respected side of the force. If I could, I would, I should have....is irrelevant because if the fight occurred in real time again, the fight would have different, not identical results.
Cant forget about obi wan's moan right before they jump always killed me lol
As a lifelong user of blades and their styles, I can say you're actually mistaken. Maul couldn't cut Kenobi's ass because of the spin attack. If he cut Kenobi the force of the strike would have carried Maul's own blade into himself. And Qui-Gon attacks the top blade because Maul is about to strike Kenobi's head with it while he was locked withthe bottom blade. Qui-Gon would rather save his apprentice than kill the enemy. A true jedi. And two examples of excellent swordplay.
I'm sure I read somewhere that lightsabers are attracted to eachother like magnets which is why sometimes they clash together when it would have been easy to finish off the opposition.
Qui Gon "Yeah man but.....i was pay it to die"🤣🤣🤣🤣
With the expanded lore of the universe, the explanation that covers this and many other flourishes is lightsaber users are drilled through forms to make specific motions essentially as reflex, so duels are filled with some strange openings and swings.
My head canon is that during a lightsaber fight, force users are not only using their weapons but also exerting pressure on each other's bodies and minds through the force. It's a constant balance between wrestling your opponent into a vulnerable state, resisting being wrestled yourself, and actually using your lightsaber. That's why it seems like such a dance, where they seem to miss strike opportunities, or aim for the saber rather than the opponent.
In the moment shown here, likely Maul was being held back from hitting Obi in the rear, and when he switched to an overhead strike, his movement was directed into Jin's saber. If you think about their movements in these terms, it makes the choreographed, telegraphed movements make more sense.
They all have the force and are anticipating each others moves. A Jedi battle is not the same as a normal battle.
Jin attacked the top of of the lightsaber because he was protecting Obi-Wan
bro, the whole fight is like that. And there is even better scene, where Jinn jumps after Maul. Maul was a real gentleman there for not cutting Jinns legs off.
"Aim for the lighrsaber...
...dodge as a precaution"
Everyone comes to the defence of flaws in this fight with pretty farfetched claims and some real mental gymnastics. But in recent media, it's all about how shit Disney is. Nothing is perfect, let it be what it is. Enjoy the visuals without analyzing them too much. It's acting, not real life.
Exactly...ppl with no lives focusing on useless fictional stuff whereas their rights and lives are being ruined in REALITY...FFS
Maul might have not wanted to die, consodering his life really sucked, and he thought if he won the duel he would get a second chance.
At the time, as a kid, I thought Maul was toying with them. Boasting that he could take them both on, like it wasnt a problem. Though having the retrospect now, of having not only done martial arts myself, but also delved into the characters a little more, some things have come to perspective.
It makes sense that said flick would have done Kenobi in, though it could have locked up his lightsaber, even if for a halfbeat and that would have given Jinn the opening he needed. Whereas Maul probably not only wanted to win, but also walk out alive. However, Jinn's ultra high strike would make sense if his intention would be to lock it up for that halfbeat, as his concern was more for Kenobi's safety.
He was baiting them to get them to the spot where he could separate them. He knew what he was doing.
I agree with you Prof on the lack of keyword explanation. Been avoiding full art cards in my Cube for this very reason for new player's sakes.
Obi-Wan could have possibly survived, if he was cut in Zone 4, Cho Sun. Just like how Maul survived. Qui-Gon would have ended Maul, like in the Short stated... then, Qui-Gon could have used Force Healing to try and keep his apprentice alive until Obi-Wan was taken to a 2-1B-series Medical Droid, which the Royal House of Naboo, did indeed have!
Qui Gon isn't attacking, he's blocking Maul's downward attack on Obi Wan's head
You could argue that its so fast that there wouldn't have been time. Kenobi had spun before maul could even lift his blade, and Jin wasn't set up for that attack.
Turning your Back to your opponent for a fabulous spin is the most common mistake in sword choreo
If he went for that strike on Obi, he would have left himself open for a kill strike from QuiGon.
Naw I saw that differently. While prob does slice Obi when he does that dumb spin. When they clash, Maul is actually about to flip the other side of his saber down onto Obi's head. You can tell because Obi's head is looking up at it as Maul starts to move and tries to duck. Qui Gon instead of going for the kill on Maul while risking Obi instead sticks true to his character and instead clashed with Maul's top saber to stop his downard sweep on Obi.
The scene makes sense for the most part.
This was actually addressed by sellsword arts. The choreography is actually not great, but the stuff about missing easy hits is actually something that would happen in the heat of battle.
Anyone in a life and death scenario is bound to make a mistake
This is how hard you have to reach for the prequel fights lol. Unlike the sequels where it’s flaws coming at you like a machine gun
Maul specifically wanted Obi to see him defeat Jin so he didn’t want to kill him until the end.
This is how people break down that fight scene from episode eight.
Maul underestimated Kenobi as being a Padawan, Qui-Gon was his prize. He thought that once the Master was down the Apprentice would be an easy target.
That's because sometimes star wars choreography devolves into stick banging and dancing and not any actual sword fighting.
As someone who also grew up with the prequels I never understood why people feel like because they grow up with something they like they owe it something or have to be soft on it.
It’s not your child or brother
"Im Not that shallow" list so many things she needs. 5'1" but the guy basically got to be 6ft. And kept listing things 🤣
Don't overthink, this is so much better than everything we have nowadays.
took years to find this oversight in choreography yet it took 5 minutes to find a dozen major fuck ups in episode 8's red dude cluster fuck scene (or whatever it's called)
Jinn isn't attacking the lightsaber, he's defending Obi-Wan.
To the second point: Qui-gon looks to be blocking a potential overhead and is protecting Kenobi.
To the first point: Maul thought he had the fight and could take them both by extending it out. Killing Kenobi with the suggested cut would lead Qui-gon to retaliate (and slay Maul) rather than protect Kenobi (overhead).
This video actually helped me appreciate this fight even further.
I think either Maul knew it would kill him or else he missed his oppotunity, that would also make sense since no one is a perfect swordsmen, it would also add to the lore of this fight.
I bet if you break down every light saber duel this closely you could find dozens of these moments.
My headcannon: he was leaving Kenobi alive because that kept Jinn's attention split between attacking Maul and protecting Kenobi, which increased his chances of killing Jinn
"Where he could have defeated..." but then there'd be no movie 😂
I think moments like these were confirmed to be done by the Force, sometimes the Force tells them to swing a certain way just to prepare them for later in the dual
The biggest flaw of the duel is why Qui-Gon continues to constantly push Maul forward after getting separated instead of holding his ground and letting Obi-Wan catch up.
I mean literally during the pause with the energy walls, as soon as the walls go down Qui-Gon immediately charges forward when he could've just stayed put or moved backwards to join Obi-Wan.
The only explanation I can think of is Qui-Gon sensed Obi-Wan was too flustered and was trying to protect him. But surely he knew Maul was too much for him to take on alone as well
If he had made the move that was suggested, the fight would have ended sooner because Maul would have been left completely open. Also, the lightsaber forms have positions, especially utilizing double blades.
When Star Wars theory was talking about how bad the choreography from the acolyte was he talked about how there was too many openings but we see openings all the time in Star Wars. Even the prequels
Or maybe their was a mistake in the choreography because it honestly just looks like mauls waiting for the next position
The issue is maul has to worry about Jinn attack. Maul knew he would have died if he goes for the kill there.
Maul could have also turned off the lightsaber clashing with Obi-wan to defend himself from Qui-Gon but that a forbidden move for Jedi and Sith.
This is definitely the choreography we're looking for.
These guys also have a thing called "the force" which could tell them when to strike and when not to. Obi wan did the spin because he knew there was no danger in it and Maul didn't take the shot because he knew instinctually through the force that would have been a kill shot for Qui-gon. The whole reason Maul did what he did was to separate the two jedi and lure Qui-gon into the reactor room ) once he realized he was using Form IV. Ataru is bad in closed spaces and Maul knew he could close on Jinn who could not use Ataru to properly defend himself and killed the Jedi Master in a movement of conclusion. Maul did everything right except he underestimated Obi-wans skills.
Looks like Maul was going to slice down on Obi-Wan but Qui-Gon blocks it, sacrificing a potential kill shot to save his padawan from getting struck down
Sometimes I feel like they're moves are supposed to be quicker then what we the audience sees
Kenobi looked reckless but Gin had to swing up to counter Mauls downswing it appears 🤔
Force sensitive short term precognition could allow maul to know that striking at the first opportunity will result in his death, whereas doing what he does (attacking at the second point) makes qui gon intervene to prevent an attack on his apprentice, obi wan
He would have cut Kenobi’s legs off but Ben force-blocked him from out of his ass. “(of Maul) …and he was a good friend.”
The worst part of DoF for me was that damn spinning back kick that Maul pulls off. It doesn't even LOOK like it has momentum. I've seen Storm Troopers fall over more convincingly. 😂
It is because they like to do a lot of spins and stuff, even though in real life spins are nearly always extremely bad and exposes you to attack.
Liam Neeson also knew how to wield an actual sword...
I always hated the prequel fights because they literally are swinging where the other guy is going to block. It's just dance fighting.
Jedis and sith are supposed to move fast enough to block lasers, but somehow decide to slow their movements down when fighting each other, realistically they should be fighting at blurring speed.