Card We Hate But Still Play | Commander Clash Podcast 138

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  • Опубліковано 12 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 608

  • @BrewersKitchen
    @BrewersKitchen 8 місяців тому +124

    Just fyi I usually run 2-3 Wraths, 1-2 Counters and 1-2 Spot removal spells per deck. I just rarely cast wraths on calsh because I'm usually the one who gets dunked on by a board wipe 😅

    • @Lucarioguild7
      @Lucarioguild7 8 місяців тому +33

      Don't listen to him Phil you're playing the right way, you never have to answer problems if you are the problem

    • @TMidander
      @TMidander 7 місяців тому +6

      exactly THIS IS PHIL SLANDER :D

    • @nosyamthegreat8768
      @nosyamthegreat8768 7 місяців тому +2

      SAMMEE. MAN OF THE PEAPLE🤣

    • @grantpolley
      @grantpolley 6 місяців тому +2

      Bro WHAT

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому

      I run 6-8 spot interaction and 1 or 2 hard sweepers. My blue decks have 2 or 3 counters within that.

  • @jamesvacca8835
    @jamesvacca8835 8 місяців тому +246

    Seth is Safron Olive, Crim is the Asian Avenger, Richard is the Codfather, and Tomer is Baby Hands.

    • @darthsnarf
      @darthsnarf 8 місяців тому +14

      budget commander who? he has a new Tag Line now

    • @canamrock
      @canamrock 8 місяців тому +4

      @@darthsnarfHe's suffering from saving money on smaller hands. Gotta go with the value pack family-sized hands.

    • @joshuadempsey5281
      @joshuadempsey5281 8 місяців тому +1

      I really want this to become the top comment lol

    • @ethanhughes3515
      @ethanhughes3515 8 місяців тому

      The best MTG Mafia

    • @robgmb6311
      @robgmb6311 8 місяців тому +3

      Never forget Tomer's Onlywrists account

  • @AndrewRingle
    @AndrewRingle 8 місяців тому +327

    "Casual commander is about cultivating an enjoyable experience."
    *- Proceeds to insert 12 boardwipes into a deck -*

    • @jamespowelljr4636
      @jamespowelljr4636 8 місяців тому +12

      Bruh 😂 facts.

    • @BobardeZanzibar
      @BobardeZanzibar 8 місяців тому +7

      Is mono-red a fun experience? No boardwipes makes every game exactly like that. See Phil.

    • @itsazombiethingsgaming1107
      @itsazombiethingsgaming1107 8 місяців тому +15

      I'd rather see people add 10 board wipes in there decks unlike one group I play with how many infinite combos can I add in

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 8 місяців тому +8

      Honestly, their pod will wrath 4 power because "they're gonna win the game!"

    • @marimi46
      @marimi46 8 місяців тому +2

      You don't need more wraths lmao. Just run more 3 for 1 or 2 for 1 targeted removal

  • @vinnythewebsurfer
    @vinnythewebsurfer 8 місяців тому +322

    Alternate title to this video would be “this card is a problem and I’m part of the problem”

    • @mattfrisone3961
      @mattfrisone3961 8 місяців тому +1

      HA! Right? I'm watching these slides - "Oh, but I love tutors!" "How can you hate ramp? I love green!" "Yeah, I have 12 Sol Rings in 13 decks..."

    • @justin2039
      @justin2039 8 місяців тому +1

      This card is a problem and in every precon.

    • @-8h-
      @-8h- 8 місяців тому

      ​@mattfrisone3961 yet aside from crim, they all whine about sol ring and cry for its death like it slept with their partner.

    • @williambowen8054
      @williambowen8054 8 місяців тому +4

      You know what isn't a problem? Ensuring my cards are safe and secure with sleek UltraGuard sleeves and stylish deck boxes.

  • @skylerskinner2477
    @skylerskinner2477 8 місяців тому +109

    I usually never put more than 4 wrath’s. I honestly would rather the game end and someone else win than having a drawn out game with continuous wrath’s. 6-12 wrath’s sounds miserable haha

    • @BrootalMetalBanjo
      @BrootalMetalBanjo 8 місяців тому +4

      I put in tire board protection spells in place of board wipes. Now when your wrath-happy pod attempts to wipe, your field is intact and you can win.

    • @BlitzKreigur
      @BlitzKreigur 8 місяців тому +15

      Hard agree. I'll slot in more spot removal, play more politics or take my beats. The wrath-reset cycle can turn any game into a chore, which for me, hurts the enjoyment more than having too many threats.

    • @EmbeJuicemazzopazzo
      @EmbeJuicemazzopazzo 8 місяців тому +6

      four/five is more than enough, I have around 2-3 on most of my decks, while I have 4 in my boros deck, the one I have the most

    • @Kestral287
      @Kestral287 8 місяців тому +3

      Honestly if you're playing a deck where the board matters the solution is to just play asymmetrical wraths and just win the game after you blow up the board.

    • @patriciaboggs8882
      @patriciaboggs8882 8 місяців тому +2

      Miserable? Ha! Have you tried playing around 60? So much fun! Some of my favorite games. 3+ hours of brutal destruction of everything where everyone is still above 30 life and has 0 permanents in play.

  • @captainstrangiato961
    @captainstrangiato961 8 місяців тому +117

    Tomer yelling “MY BABY HANDS, MY BABY HAAAANDS” is really what I needed this morning.

  • @oliverherman2447
    @oliverherman2447 8 місяців тому +65

    I love this discussion
    Everyone: “these are mechanics that are unhealthy for magic as a whole”
    Tomer: “these cards hurt my baby hands”

  • @andrueurbane7361
    @andrueurbane7361 8 місяців тому +74

    Crim not only hates ramping, he hates making land drops as well.

    • @taylorarnold880
      @taylorarnold880 8 місяців тому +11

      He hates ramping so much, he cuts lands for wraths

    • @zacdredge3859
      @zacdredge3859 3 місяці тому

      Land drops are just passive ramping.

  • @cre8rzaw
    @cre8rzaw 8 місяців тому +53

    I think for day-night cards, the mechanic should have been that if there are no day-night permanents on the battlefield, the cycle reverts to day. This way it's always on day by default.

    • @SaltyProductionsHD
      @SaltyProductionsHD 8 місяців тому +7

      Yes, it needs like an ETB effect that sets it to day or something like that

  • @late_gaming
    @late_gaming 8 місяців тому +23

    If you raise poison counters to 20... no infect deck would ever win a pod. 1v1, sure... but a 4 man pod? nah dude. My infect deck is about as good as it can get, and it's still a struggle to win a pod. Infect is only good if you get super big combos, plus the stigma on infect already makes you target #1 even if the opponents don't have counters. My big combos to take a single person out in one turn will usually cost me 10 plus mana... then I'm outta gas. I see people go infinite for less much more regularly. Maybe that's just my experience... but raising the counters would be the death of infect. Anyways... love the content!

    • @-8h-
      @-8h- 8 місяців тому

      Yeaaah. I feel like 10 is too few, but 20 is too much. It's a strange situation

    • @MrJahoodie
      @MrJahoodie 8 місяців тому +3

      ​@@-8h- Two headed giant is 15 counters, why not commander?

    • @donb7519
      @donb7519 7 місяців тому +4

      ​@@MrJahoodiein 2hg if you get to that 15 you win in commander getting one person to 10 just means you eliminated one opponent its not really the same

  • @seanfallon2271
    @seanfallon2271 8 місяців тому +7

    Richard: Precons have like no interaction, maybe 1 board wipe, maybe 1 targeted removal
    Command Zone reviewing nearly every precon of the last 3 years: WOTC is getting really good at including about 10-12 targeted removal and 2-3 board wipes in every deck!

    • @Jlizard27
      @Jlizard27 8 місяців тому +2

      I would say in general that precons are still very light on interaction. Maybe it’s dependent on how much someone is comparing new vs old precons as opposed to precons vs brewed decks. I would say 10-12 is more targeted removal than any of the precons I’ve gotten in the last year have had, unless it’s counting *really* specific and niche options.

    • @Garl_Vinland
      @Garl_Vinland 19 днів тому

      Targeted removal isn’t that great in Commander. A wrath is better, because if you’re behind, a wrath can swing favor to you, and if you’re ahead, there’s no single thing your opponent plays that can really catch up to you without demanding a wrath

  • @taylorgamble1965
    @taylorgamble1965 8 місяців тому +12

    Seth, you can cut Sol Ring from your decks. I did it over a year ago (outside of my Obosh companion deck) and have been super happy about it. I highly recommend it.

  • @Dynme
    @Dynme 8 місяців тому +3

    1:01:00 CC is a build around. Pick cards that have chunks of creatures enter at once. Skip your Mardu Ascendency and go with Rabble Rousing. Is Mardu usually better? Sure. Is RR better for keeping your sanity? Yes.

  • @covertgoblue
    @covertgoblue 8 місяців тому +41

    best rule for day/night - when it matters, flip a coin

    • @techpriest8965
      @techpriest8965 8 місяців тому +4

      My group forgot that we had monarch in play (we said we will remember it so no token was being passed around) and rolled dice later to decide....

    • @trixterDevil
      @trixterDevil 8 місяців тому +3

      For day/night, just house rule it to reset back to normal whenever the one card gets removed.

    • @pascalsimioli6777
      @pascalsimioli6777 8 місяців тому

      You peasant, we have an actual crown to keep track of the monarch lmao

  • @edhdeckbuilding
    @edhdeckbuilding 8 місяців тому +11

    a whole bunch of issues would be solved in commander if everyone stopped playing cards that they hate playing against. i might stop playing farewell for this reason.

    • @pascalsimioli6777
      @pascalsimioli6777 8 місяців тому

      That's like saying "we would solve all of our issues if we could teach humans what basic empathy is"
      I agree with you, but humans are pretty stupid animals.

  • @MakeVarahHappen
    @MakeVarahHappen 8 місяців тому +11

    Yeah man, don't play that two mana removal spell. Instead you can tutor up a seven mana boardwipe that also destroys your board! These do not play the same role.

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому

      For real, I'd rather slow down a threat by hitting one problem than put both of us back to square one

  • @Wearywastrel
    @Wearywastrel 8 місяців тому +4

    What we need is an anti farewell, we can call it welfare, choose 2
    Return all creatures from exile.
    Return all artifacts from exile.
    Return all enchantments from exile.
    Thing goes wild with tormods crypt.

  • @bartoffer
    @bartoffer 8 місяців тому +21

    The fix to double-sided cards is easy: you put them in a clear sleeve, take draft chaff, and use the sharpie to turn the chaff into a proxy. When you have the double-faced card anywhere the information is public, just set the proxy-card off to the side.

    • @TimHense-m5k
      @TimHense-m5k 8 місяців тому +2

      I hate them for the reason, that I never remember the back-side since I don't play often. And then I'm like trying to pull them out and read them without anyone noticing

    • @HJOTech
      @HJOTech 8 місяців тому +2

      Just use the million blank art cards you get in packs

    • @Gyarodos
      @Gyarodos 8 місяців тому +4

      Cleanest solution: 1. print a proxy of the backside. 2. Put it to your tokens. 3. When you flip/use the backside, then you exchange proxy back vs real front side.

    • @bartoffer
      @bartoffer 8 місяців тому

      Art cards and the MDFCs themselves can bleed through certain sleeves and be visible, since art cards have the blank backs. Just take a sharpie to a Disenchant.

  • @Awesomesausages
    @Awesomesausages 8 місяців тому +27

    4:02 "How do you hate Farewell? It's so good."
    You just answered your own question. Fuck this card.
    I'm so happy to be playing in a friendgroup where we don't need six-plus wraths in each deck. Also, shoutout to Tragic Arrogance: great, powerful wrath that doesn't completely halt the game.

    • @TheAlmightyGoiter
      @TheAlmightyGoiter 8 місяців тому

      That's a good card. I've been running divine reckoning forever since it doesn't leave everyone on an empty board and stop the game.

    • @Balileart
      @Balileart 8 місяців тому +4

      Crim saying "oh but there's also the artifact deck that's popping off so you need something to deal with that" like my brother in christ, Austere Command is right there

    • @mrWade101
      @mrWade101 7 місяців тому

      @@Balileart In what world is Austere command not just a worse version?

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому +1

      ​@@mrWade101 more tolerable. Mass exile kills all tempo for everyone and all recovery. There's also a world where you can play through it

  • @WiLDRAGE777
    @WiLDRAGE777 8 місяців тому +15

    The only card I hate that I play is Farewell in my Superfriends deck because it makes sense to play it there. Day/Night cards I absolutely refuse to play under any circumstance. For Seth, play the Sonic Screwdriver from Doctor Who instead of Celestus; it has much better utility.

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому

      Don't basically all board wipes work well in superfriends though?

  • @aydjent
    @aydjent 8 місяців тому +15

    I don't care how "technically correct" 12 board wipes might be, that would make for such boring games to both play and watch

    • @michaelcollins4534
      @michaelcollins4534 8 місяців тому +2

      And then they always complained about their three hour Modo games lol. I wonder why they got like that

    • @nosyamthegreat8768
      @nosyamthegreat8768 7 місяців тому

      Yea i run 2 AT MOST 12 is ridiculious

    • @Garl_Vinland
      @Garl_Vinland 19 днів тому

      They just hate the idea of an untouchable board state

  • @MakeVarahHappen
    @MakeVarahHappen 8 місяців тому +7

    If you play Rhystic and win we will all be talking about Rhystic, not your jank. This is like calling Allurn/Acererak combo a dungeon deck.

  • @xdavid00
    @xdavid00 8 місяців тому +7

    I've been preparing for the Farewell-pocalypse for over a year now. Most of my decks are pretty resistant. Use slow-flicker/phasing for defense, have more card draw, have more effects from lands and planeswalkers, or just hold counterspells for only Farewell and not be tempted to use those for other threats.

    • @michaelcollins4534
      @michaelcollins4534 8 місяців тому +4

      As a mono red enjoyer I've had to start unironically adding warping wail to my decks just for farewell

    • @Qazplm601MC
      @Qazplm601MC 8 місяців тому +5

      @@michaelcollins4534 as a mono green enjoyer I’m right there with you, Warping Wail is our only out, even run old Boseiju to make the Wail uncounterable since the farewell players in my meta almost always have a counterspell up to protect it. Of course, then they usually just fetch mystic sanctuary and return Farewell to hand to cast it on their next turn. I’m so tired of Farewell…

    • @Chonus
      @Chonus 6 місяців тому +1

      @@michaelcollins4534 Tibalt's Trickery is a hard counter in red, definitely playable.

    • @michaelcollins4534
      @michaelcollins4534 6 місяців тому

      @@Chonus I'd rather not spin them into their bombs tbh

    • @Chonus
      @Chonus 6 місяців тому

      @@michaelcollins4534 Have you played the card? It's definitely better than warping wail.

  • @drluigi21
    @drluigi21 8 місяців тому +17

    100% agree with Tomer on One Ring, immediately thought of the exact same mana crypt comparison

    • @drluigi21
      @drluigi21 8 місяців тому +3

      And then a minute later also 100% agree on dfc. I like so many design-wise, but super obnoxious to have to unsleeve cards, and can't stand looking at ugly checklist cards in hand

  • @liamlindsay6082
    @liamlindsay6082 8 місяців тому +5

    52:52 Absolutely. Celestial Ancient is a great card in enchantress decks. Each enchantment cast, put a +1/+1 counter on your creatures. It is so annoying to track, I immediately took it out after goldfishing a sythis deck. Tracking how many tokens I had was enough.
    Boon of the spirit realm is just an improved version playability wise

  • @Oddler
    @Oddler 8 місяців тому +43

    I agree with that take. I just don't play cards I hate and number one on that list is rhystic study.

    • @delailama736
      @delailama736 8 місяців тому +8

      And Smothering Tithe. I don't even think I hate the cards, I just hate hearing someone saying "are you going to pay..." every single time someone plays the game.

    • @jamespowelljr4636
      @jamespowelljr4636 8 місяців тому

      ​@delailama736 I definitely agree lol

    • @khub5660
      @khub5660 8 місяців тому

      ​@delailama736 then tell them you aren't going to pay for it when they play it. Think about that?

    • @goy1849
      @goy1849 8 місяців тому +1

      I like playing rhystic then cloning it :D

    • @Kestral287
      @Kestral287 8 місяців тому +2

      @@khub5660 Especially with Rhystic that just means you're conceding with extra steps. That's not a good thing.

  • @doctorrobz
    @doctorrobz 8 місяців тому +19

    Richard: you can just play one to two counterspell in a deck
    Crim: 😐

  • @paulhedges4625
    @paulhedges4625 8 місяців тому +6

    The One Ring definitely feels like a S+ staple next to sol ring, arcane signet. But I don't see it when I'm in those lower power pods, because it's sort of just understood that it's ridiculously powerful. I've intentionally chosen to not include it for those power reasons

    • @michaelburt9888
      @michaelburt9888 8 місяців тому +1

      The One Ring alone has caused me to increase the number of exile and/or theft-based removal pieces that I run.

  • @olddaydreams
    @olddaydreams 8 місяців тому +19

    It was a treat when I noticed a good boy on the bed behind Crim! Love getting to see one of the puppers

  • @anthonylocker599
    @anthonylocker599 8 місяців тому +2

    Tomer hates tutors because he hates shuffling, Tomer hates duel face cards because he hates flipping them. Does Tomer just hate paper?

  • @Beam_on_team
    @Beam_on_team 8 місяців тому +3

    The less obnoxious alternative to Cathars Crusade in go-wide white decks is Starlight Spectacular. It still requires some maths, but it means no counters, 4 mana, and immediately game ending if you top deck it with a board already established. It's also very budget friendly!

    • @TheSpiritombsableye
      @TheSpiritombsableye 8 місяців тому

      Just like them up in a conga line.

    • @Shawn-f3x
      @Shawn-f3x Місяць тому

      Cathar’s Crusade has suffered for the sins of pilots who refuse to put in the necessary practice to play it in a way that’s respectful of the time of your fellow players.
      I play *a lot* of Selesnya +1/+1 counters lists, and several of them feature Cathar’s Crusade, but I put in 90 mins of practice speeding through counter placement while maintaining accuracy a couple times a week.
      If you practice, you can absolutely get your Token-generation and counter-placement down to turns no longer than many other decks.
      It’s taken time, but I’ve slowly won over the guys and gals at my 2 LGSs about its use.

  • @ericjackman1143
    @ericjackman1143 8 місяців тому +9

    My rules for building decks these days are:
    - Typically under $150
    - Using cards that directly synergize mechanically OR flavorfully with the theme of the deck
    This means that I have enough room to purchase a few niche and interesting $10 cards while avoiding picks like The One Ring if it doesn't match the theme. There are many functionally similar cards albeit much less efficient and sometimes needs multiple casts to get the same effect, but that saves room for expressing my deck in other ways. It makes for sometimes strange yet effective jank. Why run Rhystic Study in my budget Rafiq deck when I could instead use a Cold-Eyed Selkie, or a Thalia Guardian of Thraben?

    • @aklepatzky
      @aklepatzky 8 місяців тому +1

      Cause youre not gonna win

    • @Jlizard27
      @Jlizard27 8 місяців тому

      @@aklepatzkydoes your pod play 4 separate games of Solitaire?

    • @aklepatzky
      @aklepatzky 8 місяців тому

      does your pod see sol ring t1 and throw grenades at that player cause yalls budget and decks are so low?@@Jlizard27

    • @Garl_Vinland
      @Garl_Vinland 19 днів тому

      The art must coincide with the theme*
      The budget is unlimited, but the art must go with the rest of the deck.

  • @Newtontke
    @Newtontke 8 місяців тому +6

    Richard is my favorite Commander-related opinion person. He comes at the format from such a different perspective that his takes are either wildly crazy or secretly genius. This cast generally has a very individualistic perspective overall, but Richard is the most unique among the group. Most Commander content is everyone agreeing to the general opinion on cards and strategies and it makes them redundant

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому +1

      Seriously? He's almost always objectively wrong but sometimes right because of how skewed their pod is

    • @Newtontke
      @Newtontke 2 місяці тому

      @@seanedgar164 He is often wrong, but his perspective always makes me consider things from a new angle which can be interesting.

  • @RaiyZa_
    @RaiyZa_ 3 місяці тому +1

    Card I hate, but still play is C. Rift.
    It's too one-sided and very flexible unless opponent copies the spell, it makes you become archenemy, and sometimes, when I want to play it for cantrip reasons such as bounce my nonland permanents to accelerate my game plan, I couldn't (where in this case it becomes inflexible). A similar case is Assassin's Trophy and Boseiju, Who Endures. Sometimes, I want to target my permanents to get another basic land.

  • @ThePurpleGM
    @ThePurpleGM 8 місяців тому +2

    I like to call cards that are very time consuming to play 'Busy Cards' and despite what a lot of people might think there is a vast difference between complexity and busy cards.
    Cathar's crusade and Coat of Arms are busy cards because they create a state of play that requires constant checking, but aren't complex in their design.
    I'd argue the busy card mechanic is the Day/Night cycle.

  • @TheAlmightyGoiter
    @TheAlmightyGoiter 8 місяців тому +9

    Everyone would hate sol ring if it cost as much $$$ as mana crypt.

    • @GusFu22
      @GusFu22 7 місяців тому +2

      I hate Sol Ring even at 50p

  • @kevinthecarpathian
    @kevinthecarpathian 8 місяців тому +43

    12 wraths wtf, never want to play with Richard

    • @enriquemeza5291
      @enriquemeza5291 8 місяців тому +2

      For real! That’s beyond excessive. Long boring games.

    • @foggyparadigm4416
      @foggyparadigm4416 8 місяців тому +1

      Stupendously excessive and positively miserable to play against 😆

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому

      He's so dependent on their meta, I feel like he folds to anything with synergy lmao

  • @dcnole
    @dcnole 8 місяців тому +6

    Credit to Crim for being an on-brand Grixis stan. To summarize the cards he hates: Anything green or white that is even semi-good.

  • @Vertrie
    @Vertrie 8 місяців тому +4

    The more I watch, the more I realize Crim and I are the exact same type of players, when he was talking about the golem commander, I was 100% on board with everything he said, even the mention of green only for the handful of splicers, I was like "The Mahdi has spoken."

  • @cowsticker9618
    @cowsticker9618 8 місяців тому +4

    I think the constant arms race between casual players tends to let their decks creep up in power level and include a bunch of cards that they normally wouldn't.

  • @maciekwilkosz6377
    @maciekwilkosz6377 8 місяців тому +1

    I have the same feelings about Farewell. Austere Command used to be a format staple. These does everything it did but better. In general there is way too much exile effects latały allowing less counterplay, hating on death triggers and graveyard synergies. You need answers, yes, but such catch all cards are toxic to play against.

  • @OGTahoe3
    @OGTahoe3 8 місяців тому +3

    8:40 i introduced some new friends to my old group. All my new friends were so confused why nothing could stay on the board and why we saw 6-9 board wipes a game.
    They said it was really eye opening in how non creature decks hold up against Stompy decks

  • @ethanhughes3515
    @ethanhughes3515 8 місяців тому +5

    I think we need a commander clash episode “oops, no wrath’s” then next week “oops, all wrath’s”.

    • @donb7519
      @donb7519 7 місяців тому

      We did have a no wrath episode it was pretty good

  • @Shimatzu95
    @Shimatzu95 8 місяців тому +1

    @tomer, if you are in a pod were trust is not an issue you can kinda skip shuffling most of the time. You just start searching from the bottom and if you dont take too long to find what you search (like the bottom 20 cards) it shouldn't realy matter that you saw them.
    Ps: Personally my problem is not handsize but I'm just verry bad at shuffling and dont want to risk damaging my cards.

  • @dorsalfin22
    @dorsalfin22 8 місяців тому +1

    The Teferi's Protection discussion hit home for me. I just finished brewing a fog deck and even in a dedicated deck for the theme I run only 13 fogs, including all three Richard mentioned. I'm starting to think about making a big battlebox that is 100% singleton so I'm only able to use every card once so synergistic cards have a chance to shine. So many good generic cards come out these days, especially with the rapid fire release schedule from WOTC.

  • @Daxelman
    @Daxelman 8 місяців тому +2

    I don't hate Farewell, I hate what it does to random pods. People rarely want to go another round (or even continue the current game) if that card comes out, especially ahead of curve. I think it's pretty cool, but everytime it's played it sort of just deflates the table in ways Cyclonic Rift doesn't.

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому +1

      I hate that there's no recovery for it, you're really only left with your hand and lands. Very deflating

  • @DylanHunter64
    @DylanHunter64 8 місяців тому +6

    Seth's comment about Feed the Swarm makes me wonder, how long can something be officially in color pie before players start to recognize it as such? How long will it be before people stop erroneously saying that Feed this Swarm is a color pie break? How long did it take for players to stop saying that blue gets pingers after WotC stopped printing them?

  • @Proudfootzorz
    @Proudfootzorz 8 місяців тому +2

    I run a One Ring ONLY in my CEDH deck. I think it would make my other decks better, but I don't run Sol ring either so I'm trying to play casual.

  • @RyanEglitis
    @RyanEglitis 8 місяців тому +3

    My choice for card I hate but play anyway is Consecrated Sphinx. It just takes over the game, unless someone held up spot removal or a counter.

  • @NeoSamurai13
    @NeoSamurai13 8 місяців тому +3

    I play the one ring in 0% of my decks. If i had the one ring, I would probably put it into 100% of my decks.

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому

      I would put it in my one deck for lgs play, so that I can keep up with pubstompers. It would sit in a binder otherwise

  • @Onirikas
    @Onirikas 8 місяців тому +2

    Completely agree with Tomer's tale on wrhats, and how we should be playing more one sided wraths.

  • @coryledwitch6492
    @coryledwitch6492 8 місяців тому +1

    That’s an interesting concept about the one ring within a crappy deck making it more competitive. Not sure I agree there, though. I’d ask the question, “Does this card just generically elevate the level of my deck by itself?” Regardless of whether you are drawing all your bad cards, you are still filtering through your deck to get to the good cards. Likewise, unless everyone unless is playing that card and all decks are relatively crappy or even in PL, you are hugely breaking parody by slapping down a super powerful draw engine. This is the moment that you become the archenemy. That’s why people are saltier over the one ring rather than, say Sol Ring. Everyone at the table probably has one, so everyone has an equal chance of drawing it.

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому +1

      You're just creating an inconsistent deck. Where sometimes you'll almost auto-win with it and others you're chill. But how do opponents assess that?

  • @Scub
    @Scub 8 місяців тому

    Shoutout to Richard. When in a boring meeting in home office I‘ll grab a commander deck for shuffling. ❤ So relaxing!

  • @MrBFriedm
    @MrBFriedm 8 місяців тому +9

    All of Tomer's issues have something to do with his "baby hands" 😂😂

  • @masterthnag105
    @masterthnag105 8 місяців тому +1

    Sol ring doesn't need to go in every deck. The more colored pips you have the less useful it is.

  • @sevenangerywasps6103
    @sevenangerywasps6103 8 місяців тому

    One podcast episode I'd love to see would be each of you recording a ~15 minute video breaking down your deckbuilding process, how you go about, the types of cards you like to include, and your general philosophy you use when playing and how that impacts your deckbuilding. Then just compile each of your clips into an episode and that's the podcast for that week! Would love to hear more insight from you all on that :)

  • @webbc99
    @webbc99 8 місяців тому +1

    I have a fully double sided commander deck, every card including lands is double sided or a meld card, it's great fun for me and the table, even gets some laughs from people walking past or in games next to us when they see me resleeving for every land drop!
    One card I hate but still play is Nighthawk Scavenger, you have to keep track of the number of card types in all graveyards which is annoying. I also really dislike introducing the Initiative for one card, but you basically have to run Explore the Underdark in gates decks.

  • @brighamschellinger147
    @brighamschellinger147 8 місяців тому +1

    When I saw Farewell leaked, I legitimately thought it was a fake card. "No way they'd make strictly better exiling Austere commamd," I said to my friends. Yet I had forgotten we lived in the 2020s and nothing is off limits anymore.

  • @T_Peazy
    @T_Peazy 8 місяців тому +1

    Seth, you don't have to play feed the swarm. It's the same as when we had to play unstable obelisk or the other colorless options. You just hate that it's thr best option and you're CHOOSING to play the best card in that slot.

  • @echoscorpiongaming1841
    @echoscorpiongaming1841 7 місяців тому +1

    That's why farewell is so good

  • @OdinMagnus
    @OdinMagnus 5 місяців тому

    30:00 For the dual-faced cards, I just make a proxy of the back side, and place it with my token pile. In a different color sleeve. That way when I flip the card, I just move it to my token pile and grab the one from there. I really like Thaumatic Compass, so that's an example of it that I just have the land side off to the side.
    41:00 The best thing I like about Teferi's protection, is that their lands phase out too. What do you do against a Zangief out, with Jeska out. Then you drop a Questing Beast and all of a sudden you died because you can't defend yourself lol. 21 Commander Damage still beats "life can't change"

  • @Will_Morand
    @Will_Morand 8 місяців тому +1

    I stopped running Cathars’ Crusade and Virtue of Loyalty in my Thalisse tokens deck exclusively because of the tracking nightmare. When I pulled the deck out and brought out a notebook to track how many I had of each token with how many counters, I realized it was getting out of hand.

  • @colbybastian17
    @colbybastian17 7 місяців тому +1

    Summation of Tomer and Richard: "I am lazy and don't like actually playing Magic or thinking" XD

  • @J-Sade
    @J-Sade 8 місяців тому +22

    How do they play with so many wraths 😂 it sounds like a terrible time

    • @avall0nNn1992
      @avall0nNn1992 8 місяців тому +5

      Works with their meta and microcosmos because they don't really play a lot of infinites. Wraths are weak If combo is a viable strategy.

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому

      Most of their games look it too, mostly revolve around sticking a couple creatures post-wipe, developing no synergy and slogging out a few hours

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому

      Combos don't have to be present for spot removal to be good, their assessment of boardstates is just super wack. Phil is the only one who really develops a synergistic boardstate so of course they want to create parity back at zero​

  • @MrMagdalore
    @MrMagdalore 8 місяців тому +5

    The number of board wipes you need to run is based on the three basic deck archetypes that have been around forever
    AGGRO (Phil) - Do the cool thing as fast as you can, ignore everyone else's cool thing and see who is cooler: 0 board wipes
    MID RANGE (Tomer and Seth) - Do a cooler thing a few turns later and pack some interaction incase someone goes off before you: 3-4 board wipes
    CONTROL (Richard) - Hide behind pillow forts and politics while continuously wiping the board until nobody wants to play Magic anymore then "win" the game with a bunch of birds: 10+ board wipes
    WILD CARD (Crim) - See Charlie Day from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia for more information: 0-100 board wipes

    • @SWAT6809
      @SWAT6809 8 місяців тому +2

      And then you run into another aggro deck thats faster and you get an autoloss because yo packed no wraths, gj

  • @Snipfragueur
    @Snipfragueur 8 місяців тому +6

    "Cards that are so good i would feel stupid not to play them"

  • @TheSpiritombsableye
    @TheSpiritombsableye 8 місяців тому +1

    43:33 you only need to know what the last flip in of day/night. You don't actually have to track it. Thr only trigger that will matter is the most recent one.

    • @tk421eatmyshorts
      @tk421eatmyshorts 8 місяців тому

      Definitely this. Everyone always comments when some says “Draw, Go” and you usually notice when someone plays more than one spell, or are “popping off”

  • @austinbrown2833
    @austinbrown2833 8 місяців тому +3

    Always love the content guys! Much appreciated

  • @NotoriouslyADD
    @NotoriouslyADD 8 місяців тому +1

    Everyone's one equal ground after the farewell. I agree, Balance is the most balanced card.

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому

      Yeah they're at parity, but also all at square one. I prefer not restarting the game, especially if my hand could be empty

  • @danielscully449
    @danielscully449 8 місяців тому +2

    I love how half of these are cards that make you pay attention or do something (shuffling, pay the one, etc) and the rest are wraths lol
    I have to agree on some of these though ngl

  • @Bleuchz
    @Bleuchz 8 місяців тому +3

    I am going to figure out a deck that forces opponents to shuffle and submit it to the next viewer deck battle now that clash is playing in paper >:)

    • @GusFu22
      @GusFu22 7 місяців тому +1

      I used to have a 60 card casual deck that did this. Soldier of Fortune, Cosi's Trickster, Psychogenic Probe, Psychic Surgery. Bad but fun

  • @TheSpunYarn
    @TheSpunYarn 8 місяців тому +1

    I think that when you hate a card, you shouldn't run it! Be the change you wanna see in Commander. Most of my decks nowadays don't play Sol Ring. The Three cards I truly "hate", Academy Manufactor, Scute Swarm and Roaming Throne aren't in any of my decks. It's actually very easy not to play cards you don't like. As easy as not doing anything!
    Tomer is right about players mostly being priced out of the power staples like One Ring and Mana Crypt. The average Commander player has 0-1 of either of those, and those cards go into their "babies", their pet decks they love.

  • @cylver3593
    @cylver3593 8 місяців тому

    During a recent game night, a friend of mine played Sol Ring turn 1 every game. We played four total games, I think, and he played three different decks across those four games, and he had Sol Ring the first turn for every game.
    I actually removed Cathars' Crusade from my Myrel deck so I did not have to deal with it. Having a different number of +1 counters on the same kind of token is annoying to keep track of, and bogs the game down quite a bit.

  • @mikemacbeath5310
    @mikemacbeath5310 7 місяців тому

    For the DFC I have a proxy card in the deck properly sleeved and everything, then have the DFC off to the side in a clear backless sleeve so you can clearly see both sides. If it gets shuffled away, the proxy goes back in the deck and the DFC is back off to the side.

  • @Guitar_Guy85
    @Guitar_Guy85 8 місяців тому

    I love listening to you guys having to adjust to the problems us pleebs who don't play online deal with constantly. Haha. I just might start watching game play videos now.

  • @leonfriedemann9151
    @leonfriedemann9151 8 місяців тому +1

    About feed the swarm, I would only play it in rakdos dimir or mono black. Dimir maybe not even. 🤔

    • @Daniel-zs4ww
      @Daniel-zs4ww 8 місяців тому

      Good luck against dem enchantments.

  • @keithbarlow858
    @keithbarlow858 8 місяців тому

    23:37 I've been saying the same thing for a while in regard to the Ring in modern. It's validating to hear another person make that point. The Ring lets tier 3 (or lower) decks compete, which is awesome IMO.Yes, the Ring is somewhat ubiquitous and obnoxious, but I think it ultimately promotes a more diverse format.

  • @d.a.d.-ohgosh
    @d.a.d.-ohgosh 8 місяців тому

    Another comment for Mr. Tomer. This time with the flip cards. Specifically with MDFC'S. I usually just don't even bother flipping them. Just put them with my lands and call it a day. The vast majority of the time people are going to understand that my Kabira Takedown is a tapped white source. If anyone asks, just explain. However it is pure laziness to not flip your flip/modal cards lol.

  • @PalPlays
    @PalPlays 7 місяців тому

    People need to understand that there are effects that can achieve the effect of a wrath without putting the archenemy massively ahead. Sleep and River's Rebuke read "put the fear of God in target player."
    Wraths slow down the archenemy, but they hardly ever stop them.

  • @VinegarAndSaltedFries
    @VinegarAndSaltedFries 8 місяців тому

    Genuinely I have cases of Ultimate Guard Katana’s I love shuffling because of them. Dragonshield is also nice but Katana’s are just so much smoother. Awesome sponsor and product

  • @beverlyshields2399
    @beverlyshields2399 8 місяців тому +1

    Y'know, I've always kinda thought that Richard was out of touch with what games actually look like. But his one ring take really sealed it. I just don't think he realizes that people don't want to put generic removal and card draw into their decks. Like don't get me wrong, I play a few in my lists, but I have actual cards for the archetype I'm trying to play that I'd like to be in my list. He brings a very spike mindset, which is fun sometimes and he offers TECHNICALLY correct advice, but I don't think he realizes that a vast majority of people don't want to play it like that.

  • @DrukenReaps
    @DrukenReaps 8 місяців тому +2

    Richard is just on the 12 wrath train because he hates single target removal.... Richard we don't need that kind of game xD That'd be horrible if all the removal everyone used was a board-wipe.

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому

      Dude board wipes most of the time just to remove one permanent. He's massively mana inefficient and killing his own board for a negative trade every game 😂

  • @tymandude1510
    @tymandude1510 8 місяців тому +4

    I feel like the problem with Farewell is the same issue MLD has in that people play it without having a significant advantage or way to win making the game last way too long. It's less problematic as you can play around it more by holding cards and not just vomiting your hand but it feels bad to have to play around a 1 of that your opponent maybe has all game.
    Don't play Farewell as a normal board wipe play it as a way to finish out games.

  • @amalinys
    @amalinys 3 місяці тому

    Please make an "annoy the editor game" with every possible mechanic which NEED to be tracked (e.g. : Monarch, initiative, day and night, rad counters, cards with flashback or that can be played from exile,...). The winner is the one that can play a whole turn without the editor being able to cut it under 5 minutes :D

  • @spoopyboi1882
    @spoopyboi1882 8 місяців тому +2

    Genuine question; how many people actually run farewell? I see so much hate on it yet i've never actually seen it played even at my lgs. Also, 6+ wraths is too much, wtf Richard

  • @danielberens3195
    @danielberens3195 8 місяців тому

    I would be so happy to have access to the complete videos, with all five hours of gameplay. More content is better!

  • @RPGFanboy14
    @RPGFanboy14 8 місяців тому

    As a replacement for the celestis Seth there is an uncommon that came out in the last Eldraine set that I think could fill a similar niche called Collectors Vault. You do have to pay mana into it to gain a treasure but it also lets you loot.

  • @LuKo3x5066
    @LuKo3x5066 8 місяців тому

    Except for the last three picks I agree with the whole list. Pro tip for day and night: rule zero that when there is nothing caring for the mechanics on the board, it is neither day nor night.

  • @dogmonolith
    @dogmonolith 8 місяців тому +3

    tomer needs a hug and reassurance about his hands

  • @Glanbalf
    @Glanbalf 8 місяців тому

    Managing multiple +1/+1 counters is actually super easy with dry erase round tokens on the top of the cards

  • @iheartlimabeans
    @iheartlimabeans 8 місяців тому +1

    I am a long time magic player and I am trying to get some friends into commander. Originally I suggested precons but after watching last week's commander clash, are precons actually a good entry product? Phil had 3 different counters on his field at one point!

    • @BrewersKitchen
      @BrewersKitchen 8 місяців тому +1

      Yeah this might not have been the most beginner friendly one 😅

  • @RobiousIllyrian
    @RobiousIllyrian 8 місяців тому +1

    Honestly games have become longer and more grueling the more wraths there are, I've noticed that games have just become less enjoyable the more wraths get played per deck. If everyones running so many wraths, it just ends up that nothing happens :/

  • @PrimNexus
    @PrimNexus 8 місяців тому +2

    Couldn't have Richard just done this episode solo

  • @AnaFreakle
    @AnaFreakle 8 місяців тому

    I have a pile of cards on every table? Even at work. I randomly shuffle them to relax and prevent me from biting my nails.
    Shuffling ist the absolute best!

  • @TheForeverRanger
    @TheForeverRanger 6 місяців тому

    I feel the Hakbal thing completely because one person in my group always brings Hakbal to the party. He is usually enemy number 1 because the deck can get out of hand quickly.

  • @_claymore
    @_claymore 8 місяців тому +11

    if every player would run more spot removal, you'd need less board wipes and games wouldn't fall into this "we need to wrath to reset the board and start over" loop.
    Edit: also funny how Richard kinda throws Phil under the bus for "not playing interaction", since he swapped in for Tomer :D

    • @tomerabramovici32
      @tomerabramovici32 8 місяців тому +3

      Sometimes yes. But at some tables running more spot removal just won't cut it: hexproof, more recently ward (Voja, Miirwym) is nerfing spot removal and encouraging more wipes as better answers.

    • @burnsboy101
      @burnsboy101 8 місяців тому

      One for one removal is only good if there is one threat on the board

    • @ServbotNumba40
      @ServbotNumba40 8 місяців тому

      ​@@tomerabramovici32just pay the 3...

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 місяці тому

      ​@@burnsboy101 there's multiple players all running spot removal tho. I only need to remove what I can't beat anyway.

  • @L4TMTG
    @L4TMTG 8 місяців тому +3

    Use osgir for the bobble head deck, use all token doublers seth

    • @supranova7594
      @supranova7594 8 місяців тому +1

      Osgir def not a bad choice I'm working on an Orvar build that twiddles all the bobble heads and cloudpost lands so I have tons of mana and tons on bobbleheads to activate for massive value. Plus replicating rings and Mechanized production style cards caring about having multiples

  • @edmundtetch3357
    @edmundtetch3357 8 місяців тому +1

    I don't really have a card or cards that I play that I hate, its the fact that I still play that I hate.....

  • @darthsnarf
    @darthsnarf 8 місяців тому

    I also shuffle just for fun. I ruined a set of sleeves from just shuffling it non stop as a tick of sorts. i still have them and keep random lands in there and still just shuffle it for fun sometimes. i wish you had larger hands so you could enjoy shuffling tomer

  • @discoviolenza1984
    @discoviolenza1984 8 місяців тому

    There have been cards I've started cutting because I don't want to track because I don't like carrying around 20 dice and a bunch of extra tokens. Cards like Cathars crusade, Scute Swarm and Chrome Host Sea Shark come to mind.