No-start No-comm: Mitsubishi V6 -Part 1 (Staten Island Ep.8.4)
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Just it time for the weekend, here is another fantastic case study from the chronicles of Staten Island.
This 2006 Mitsubishi Galant is a crank no-start. Scanner refuses to talk to it. Where do we go from here?
Enjoy!
Ivan
There should be 2 120 ohm terminating resistors in the CAN network, meaning that measuring resistance between pin 6 & 14 should be about 60 ohms. That would be a quick check to see if the network is complete.
Very good thought! The wiring diagram actually showed the terminating resistors: one inside the PCM, and the second one in the cluster.
but you already have good can comm.. and the voltages are to spec... Great work Ivan!!!
Well that was half the battle at least haha
indeed!! can't wait to see the other half... you are conquering them like Alexander the great.... Христос воскрес!
Love your videos man. I'm a Mitsubishi technician here in Arizona. I wish I was infront of our Medic Scanner to help you out. If you don't have it figured out by Monday, I will see what I can do to help. Make sure that there isn't an aftermarket alarm/remote start systems hacked in. Common occurrence that was see causing crank no starts. Good luck.
Thanks James! Oh this one was from back in February...it was unseasonably warm that week so it looks like April lol
Is there a part 2 video? This video is your newest isn't it?
Poor Keith having to work on that Land Rover, lol.
Ivan the Agatha Christie of automotive diagnostics keeps us suspended from the rafters again!l. This is a real teaser for sure.
tecnaman Some of Ivan's vids are more like Stephen King.
👍🏻
I think I would check for codes in skim module. Just because the light isn't flashing doesn't mean it doesn't have codes in memory causing a no start.
Waiting for part 2! As far as a guess to what's wrong....No clue. I think some spark and injection pulse tests are warranted. Based on the fact that the service engine soon light was being illuminated from the start I find a computer problem doubtful in the grand scheme of things, and the communication problem may have simply been a separate issue. The fuel pump is able to run, the scan tool can issue functional test commands, the engine is receiving and interpreting an RPM signal....hmmm... IDK mate! Communication pertaining to the immobilizer system does run through the ABS module, but since it was bypassed it really isn't a factor anymore network integrity wise.... Great video man, excited for part 2!
Yup on a crank no-start with no codes, first thing I check for is spark!
Nice diagnosis so far. I believe the fuel pump doesn't prime/run until the engine is cranking or running. Too many possibilities...do what you do and fix it...waiting on Part 2
CAN has differential signals right ? So the H and L are referenced to each other not to ground from what I know, and they are mirrored . You can find hardware spec of CAN on wiki . Anyway on CAN 0 is dominant so if one node puts 0 on the wire and others 0 it will always be 0. To isolate each module as you did is very good method to find the faulty ones .
brilliant liked your thought process and the idea of jump wires at abs, genius!
Spark and fuel pressure then injector power and pulse ... then maybe check how spark plugs look like flooded maybe?...
Great video any way can't wait for part 2
Arrggh!!! Stop teasing us Ivan! Can't wait for part 2!
Took me awhile.. cause i'm a bit slow.... but the beard clued me in. You look like you could be Garret Dillahunt's little brother...No offense meant. I respect his work as I do yours! Thanks for everything you do Professor Ivan.
Thoughts? You still have the ABS and PCM connected just by CAN bus. Anything else in the connector which is bypassed by ABS module and needed to get the engine started? ABS module is quite likely bad.
your videos are like suspence thrillers // great diagnosis
I love these cliffhangers!
I noticed another change....Before you unplugged the EBCM there was no warning chimes at all. Next check for Spark and Injection pulse even though there was an RPM Signal something is still off
Just wondering where you are getting your wire diagrams ? I have been looking for a good site that has that information. If pay for what is the site name and are there free ones you suggest
BBBindustries.com :)
"where can this current go"
the path of least resistance ...
(a lesson in ohm's law, fluid dynamics and in life)
I think that needs the ABS module to communicate with the pcm and tell that everything is OK to start.
This is an interesting one. It's unlikely there are two different unrelated problems that trashed the CAN bus preventing it from running and another unrelated problem that's also preventing it from running. I would suspect perhaps a harness problem that may have damaged the ABS CAN interface and is still the root problem? But get the battery voltage back up before you go further.
Keep in mind this is Staten Island. Often there are two or three or more separate issues that all relate to the customer complaint lol
That Mitsubishi is like a pulp fiction novel - the more you peel the more you want to scream at it!!
It would appear that ABS module was causing CAN bus communication issues. First I would check and see if PCM enables fuel pump prime during KOEO. That's a quick and easy check. If does not I would simply force FP to run (bypassing FP relay) just to see if engine starts. Check PCM for codes if it fires and runs. It is probable that ABS module provides a status message to PCM. Without having status from ABS PCM does not allow FP to run - possibly for safety reasons???
didn't you say you could hear the fuel pump cycle? I'm thinking flooded or low battery voltage someone mentioned ECM not seeing abs module could be. I'm looking forward to part 2 love a cliffhanger
my guess? reversed battery cables wiring issue somewhere causing the fuel pump not to engage when you turn the key maybe a bad computer or something along those lines. prob a wire to that abs module that is not jumped or bad..
check injector pulse and ignition proceed accordingly if you can eliminate fuel and compression must be ignition
Love it! This one is making me think for sure.
You must be watching to many mystery/thriller movies ! Another cliffhanger !!
Hey Ivan, great video. I live your diagnosic ideas! You have a case with jumpers and probes. Where did you get that??
AESWave.com
There is one more wire on the ABS connector that needs to be jumped. Sorry I don't have the wiring diagrams.
I always wait your videos I like it
My guess is there is some aftermarket garbage added under the dash. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bird's nest of wires and a mysterious black box under the knee bolster.
the mitsu junkies don't have a prime, I thought the same thing when I worked on one a few weeks ago. It kicked my butt I had spark fuel compression 5 volt ref checked timing with scope, checked for plugged exhaust unhooked fuel pump connector to eliminate bad gas. it turned out to be a leaking headgasket. I had compression. pulled plugs covered in coolant cleaned them started up. let sit over night covered again. found out by cranking with radiator cap off.
When you took the radiator cap off and cranked it, what happened? No pressure in the system so no leak through head gasket onto plugs? It ran without fouling plugs then I guess.
Baxrok2 sometimes it will push air into the cooling system depending on the leak.
Okay, makes sense. Thanks.
Hey Ivan, looks like the van across the street needs more help then the one your working on;)
Awesome case study Ivan. Major step forward for Keith's camera shyness too, wow. Thanks!
original code list included an "imobilizer comm issue" type error ...
isn't the imobilizer the special key check/lockout?
Now I want to see a video on that Range Rover lol.
So at the 10:15 mark of the video can low is dead ground and can high is not. I am confused at this point and think possible a sensor has failed to ground
Crank/Cam?
Tuned in
I guess that ABS connector is relaying another wires to the PCM that needs to be connected.
Hey ivan. Hi I was wondering where do u get those diagrams from.
Parameters for fuel pump activation. i.e. wiring route, brake input to pcm.
Wow. Dat VW van behind you at the beginning! Lol.
Ha I was wondering if anyone would comment on that beast :)
motoYam82 did that happen to the paintwork when it reentered the earth's atmosphere? ;)
motoYam82 I've seen that VW van before, wasn't that in another video of yours?
great video!
How about out of fuel?...Fuel gauge might be defective if showing fuel...
no power to the fuel pump with the key,but you can turn it on with the Verus? fuel pump relay bad? no ground? does this have a fuel pump control module??
As a Land Rover owner, I'm guessing most if not all of those 84 codes were useless!
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes
maybe some non sense code like gas cap loose, low fuel code
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes you have it all wrong... It's the Land Rover itself that's arguably useless. See Doug DeMuro's Land Rover videos. His Land Rover has needed more in repairs than it's worth. That's all too common with Land Rover vehicles.
Ok if you have bidirectional engine control, and you can energize the pump, And Keith hears it. Plus you can read live engine date. And it's not out on pats anti thief. And you have checked for spark and noid. I'm guessing it's either flooded from the owner cranking the heck out of it. Or maybe just plain out of gas. And the communication problem your having if I'm not mistaken. if your scan tool is not wireless and selected auto recognize and still using the good old I'd keys on your vantage with less than 16.6 software you'll have to use the snap on double end dongle connector. That hooks to both at the same time to the Mitsubishi oem data connection and the Chrysler obd2 connector to activate the controller area network. And charge up that soft battery. Most times we would find a rat's nest of wires from a aftermarket alarm or remote start. That was installed by their uncle Ernie, for Christmas. Thanks Ernie stick to small engine repair.
My guess....You unplugged the ABS module (Which is defective) .... If the PCM doesn't "see" the ABS module, won't send spark and fuel pump signals. I don't know, I'm just guessing.
Ivan, any risks to any modules by pumping 12V directly into can network using test light?
Modern circuits on cars are actually designed to be protected against wiring faults like a short to power, so the test light method is safe in the short time that it takes to perform the test.
No comm between PCM and Fuel Pump?
Immo unlocking the PCM ?
I have a impala 2006 and it won’t start but all my lights come on inside the car
Hmm since the pcm goes through the abs module to activate and the short happened somewhere on the abs wires maybe the pcm is bad or a short more near the pcm itself? But then again there is communication to the pcm so I blame tech gremlins!
also stuck open egr injector pulse.
love it thanks for sharing MOTO YAM 82.
uhoh, more multi-part diagnostics, this should be good :)
that's one rusty vw bus back there, I hope the bottom is better, yikes.
There is no bottom...I looked!
lol, always a possibility of a desert rescue, paint gone and whole top rusted, with bottom fair, vs. rust belt/ocean front, where the only thing left is rust flakes and duct tape :))
Nice !
I've had Mitsu's crank no start when the battery was low.
Fuel pump comm issue
I don't want that kind of relationship
👍👍
I had a Kia one time that wouldn't start until you locked the doors and then unlocked them with the key fob. I don't remember what the cause was i was just happy to be rid of it.
No guesses without knowing how turning the key on is supposed to lead to the fuel pump turning on.
Every car I have been in turns the fuel pump on to prime the system as soon as the key hits the ON position.
Yes, but, in this case, is it mechanical (e.g. key turns on relay which turns on fuel pump), direct electronic (e.g. ECM detects 'key on' and commands fuel pump through a relay or a driver) or indirect electronic (e.g. ECM detects 'key on' and tells another module to turn the fuel pump on).
Without knowing the chain of events which is supposed to happen, what's going wrong is anyone's guess.
Jan Verschueren mitsubishi primes fuel only when cranking
Ok, if that is correct, the fuel pump is only commanded on in the start position of the ignition key cylinder (so Ivan and Keith are currently chasing a red herring, hehee...) and then, I suppose, latches when the engine fires, but the question remains: which component is directly responsible for turning that pump on?
Every US vehicle with electronic fuel injection that I have seen in past 40 years has the fuel pump (or fuel pump pressure control module) controlled by the ECM, NOT directly by the key switch. There may be other "safety" switches that can prevent the pump from coming on, but most of those have been (cost) thrifted these days.
84 codes wow I can't even!
Got to be a record.
Inmobilizer module is of line
Can someone please buy Kieth a Sony Handycam? Just sayin
He already has one...just need to convince him to use it ;)
Haha SERIOUSLY!!
part 2 please
Hi Ivan, nice vid, we have one that's kicking our butt, 01 vw eurovan, ecm not providing ground to fuel pump relay, also not cranking, replaced ecm, same thing
Did you check all the main ECM grounds?
I checked power feeds, but didn't check all grounds, I'll do that next, but when watching your video and saw that eclipse primed only when cranking, so maybe this vw adapted same strategy? Vehicle currently no crank, no power feed from fusebox to pnp relay, thus not feeding starter solenoid.
No power feed from fuse box? Is that power feed controlled by ECM? I would have to look at a wiring diagram, but definitely check all powers and grounds and inputs before calling a bad ECM :)
Not controlled by ECM, the way it's setup is power coming from TV2 terminal 30 (i guess straight battery voltage) to one side of the Park Neutral relay and then if remember correctly goes through neutral safety switch and then to starter solenoid. If you have time, please check alldata diagram, thanks in advance!
Are you going to be able to see me Ivan?
Hey Anthony, I'm looking at the dates for my next trip right now. looks like I could schedule a diag for your car Monday April 24th late morning if that works for you!
motoYam82 okay that would be fine
but i loved this ghost no comm to the modules😆. did u figure out if u have a short to ground?
looks like possibly by you unplugging the abs mod there could have been possibly dust particles or something on either the male or female pins that caused the issue
sometimes u gotta unplug sensors n modules to get them to work again, hehehe
Hey Ivan where is part two? not able to find......K
Karl Buttler there is no part 2 yet...
Ecm
Check the 5v ref
L.Rexit