Airline Pilots React to SULLY (2016) - Mover Ruins Movies with WOMBAT
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- Mover (737, 787, F/A-18, F-16, and T-38A pilot) and WOMBAT (A320, E-2, and F/A-18 pilot) react and provide commentary on scenes from the movie SULLY (2016) starring Tom Hanks. Mover Ruins Movies. Views are our own and do not represent any airline or company. Buy WOMBAT's books! www.trmatson.com
I met Sully and Skiles at Oshkosh in 2009. They gave a presentation at Theater in the Woods prior to the screening of a film. Then they sat and took questions from the audience, which was mostly made up of people camping at the site, since it was in the evening. They were pretty much similar to the actors in the film, but Sully smiled a lot more than Hanks does in the film. Jeff Skiles was hysterical and really quick witted and funny. He'd say "don't forget me, I'm the guy who flew us into those birds so Sully could be famous" , and they'd both crack up. They were almost like a comedy act. Skiles actually had been a Captain at another airline previously, but was retrenched, so the passengers were really lucky they got those two in the cockpit that day. Sully had a lot to say about poor pay, deadheading to assignments etc, he made a lot of sense and said if either one of them had been sleep deprived they would likely not have had the same outcome. He also said he's not a hero, he's a professional pilot and he did what most experienced pilots would have done, or should have done if they had the same situation. They made the only logical choice in deciding to ditch. Skiles said if he was in the same position as Sully, he'd have made the same decision. Sully said a lot of airline pilots have lost their stick and rudder skills and rely too much on automation, so he was in favor of airline pilots flying light planes during their careers to keep those skills up. When asked, he actually said the NTSB were really professional with them and not looking to find fault, so I think the film is over dramatic in that regard. Otherwise a pretty accurate portrayal of the situation as both of those gentlemen described it. Also, Sully was very humble and said it was all involved, the crew, first responders etc, which made the ditching successful.
I can't even remember what film was shown..lol, I just wanted to hear them speak since it was so fresh and they were speaking to fellow pilots and aviation enthusiasts about it.
Wow this is awesome!
Yeah that’s the controversy- Sully said the NTSB were a lot more professional in real life
@@rikardottosson1272 I saw an interview with the NTSB lead investigator, and he joked how when he got assigned his first comment was "i felt really lucky, no one dead, is the best type of incident to investigate." Better still it was a water landing, he knew he'd get to see something that probably had never happened before and shake sully's hand. He definitely wasn't adversarial. he mentioned something interesting. the flight simulators for that airbus couldn't simulate a water landing because it was largely believed to be utterly unsurvivable, so they had to design new simulators just to test what happened, he also mentioned that it was possible to return to LeGuardia if you started the turn back the moment you were bird struck, but no one thought that was reasonable. so he felt that "controversy" in the movie was exaggerated, as the NTSB never seriously considered that as a possibility. The lead investigator wasn't shy at all about his praise of Skyles and Sully.
one of the big issues with the airbus checklist is it was designed to restart engines with 20k of altitude so like 70-80% of the checklist was impossible to follow. not that the engines would have restarted anyway, but to expect pilots to page through a 20 page checklist with 2 engine failure at just 3k feet of altitude was insane and the NTSB did note this was badly designed. They mentioned had Skyles not just done the training it was highly unlikely any other pilot would have been able to get through the checklist.
They also never expected 2 engines to go out in a bird strike. it wasn't believed to be possible before this
Fly the plane, Find a field, trouble shoot...
The fact that Clint hired the actual divers, helicopter pilots and ferry pilots from the incident, added so much authenticity. I've also had to pleasure of spending the day with Mr. Hartnen, the ATC on duty back when I was trying to decide if I wanted to go in to ATC or not. The sheer professionalism portrayed by everyone is such an inspiration.
did you?
@@rykehuss3435 I was his stage manager for a conference he was speaking at. Several hours of conversation off and on.
And lots of passanger extras were actual passangers and on their original seats! Not sure how many tho
@@michaelolsen5641 The Thomas Jefferson ferry captain was one of the real rescuers of Cactus 1549 miracle of the Hudson river
@@PampalakI also liked the fact that for Sully’s final flight, they gave him a mulligan and scheduled him and Mr. Skiles on a repeat of that flight, which landed uneventfully at its intended destination.
"Have you ever flown this profile?"
"... not officially."
"Did you land it in the Hudson?"
"I didn't make it to LaGuardia. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "
Can't give more low key respect than that. 💪😂
one of the things i loved is that these ferry operators weren't originally allowed to train for emergency drills with the coast guard. Then 9/11 boatlift happened so they allowed them to be part of emergency response drills since then. A looked over bit that helped the success of the rescue.
"If I am ever in a movie please don't make me jog". HAHAHAHA Says every veteran! Really enjoying this guys...Thanks!
Definitely won't be in a tom cruise movie then
There is an interview of Sully where they ask him if he was afraid about the passangers.. and he said that as soon as he heard the flight attendants telling "brace brace brace" in perfect unison he knew they were in the same page and whatever happent in the cokcpit they would take care of the passangers ..wich game him some ease in that really busy phase
Had a check ride with the second sim captain so yeah real instructors. Very good instructor.
He seemed familiar actually, so I think he has been in some Airbus related demos from the simulator, I just can't put my finger on who he is.
@@CMDRSweeperthat sim pilot reminded me of the actor John Voight.
@@solomongainey838 I did some more digging and it seems his name is Larry Guthrie and he is a captain / Training Captain for American AIrlines, or US Air as it was back then.
However, time wasn't too kind to him according to my digging, apparently during the big cough, he was hit by stomach cancer and lost a lot of weight, although since 2021 it seems to have been in remission, so that is good news at least.
The female Sim pilot was the lead pilot for Delta and now the lead training pilot for american. Lori is an awesome friend and VERY down to earth
Wombat's "Airplane" quote was CLASSIC! 🤣
Yeah, I literally LOLed at that. Nice.
timestamp?
@@rykehuss3435 22:10
What missing is the wife telling the horse there is orange juice in the refrigirator.
Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?
I liked how they portrayed the PTSD and the effect that it had on Sully as well as the effect of suddenly being a hero. I also like that the movie mentions that if Sully isn't flying, he's not making money. Mentour Pilot also has a good analysis of the Miracle on the Hudson that was a good watch.
I read Sully's book regarding his Hudson landing a long time ago. From what I recall, he did not face an adversarial NTSB as portrayed in the movie. I highly recommend the book.
He did not and thats my biggest complain of this movie.. it was actually the other way arround.. NTSB proved Sully had taken the best call when the press was speculating he could had made it back to La guardia .. because thats the NTSB job.. the movie also has some shamefull lines like them acusing the NTSB of blaming dead pilots because "they are most often dead" when its not like that.. the NTSB also did more than portrayed for sully.. they found out there was a fugoid protection software in the A320 FBW rules that made the plane hit the water slighty harder than Sully was trying (not just stall protection).. the plane still survived the impact with no deaths but that still made NTSB recomentation to Airbus about fine tuning that software
Didn't Sully try and pursue a political career though? Probably what someone with higher aspirations (a la Juan Brown) would do...
@@cup_and_cone As far as i know he allways rejected politics (alltought he did campaigned against Trump wich is still politics).. dont know if the changed mind in the last years
Yah, the NTSB proceedings were overwhelmingly in the crew's favor. The adversarial bit where he makes the "get serious" speach actually came from an altercation with the insurance companies and pilots union where they tried to blame him for not following procedure/doing enough to save the aircraft
@@hlynkacg9529 the 35 second added to the simulation was also added by the NTSB ..not sugested by Sully or Skylles.. because first pilots were managing to get back to La Guardia but only if they initiated the maneover right away ... NTSB determined that the crew priority would be first try to restart the engines so they determined a 35 second delay before making the turn and then no one could return to La Guardia.. BTW.. the 4 pilots seen in the sims are indeed real Airbus test pilots and the female captain of the second crew actually flew the simulations for this very investigation back in the day
“…like if the bird John Wicked after when his whole family was killed by an A320…” 🤣🤣🥰
I burst out laughing so hard at this thought 🤣 I’ve seen enough movies, my brain imagined it all at once 🤣 Perfect! 🥰😎
The first scene of the crash dream was because Sully had those nightmares for over 9 months after the ditching.. so unlike other stuff of the movie (NTSB antagonists?) it actually made sense
Love that Mover caught the scimitars at LGA. I noticed that when I saw it in the theater. They had just debuted in 2015 or so and I thought "That ain't right". Then they roll by a 2013-livery American 737 during the takeoff run.
I feel safe leaving this comment here then; the lack of AC Pack sounds in the cockpit (while on the runway) really killed any sense of immersion for me. 😆@@Astro95Media
I heard Jeff Skiles speak at a conference and he told the story that six people on that flight got ferried to shore, grabbed a cab back to LGA and got on the next flight to CLT. No luggage of course …
I’m a former US Airways (America West) Airbus pilot (now DFW based AB captain). A couple of points..back when I was at USA, the captain DID place his hands on the throttles for TO, regardless who was flying. I don’t recall it being any other way. Second, the FA’s never left their seats at gear retraction during normal operations, and only unbelted at the 10k bell chime. Granted, the “east” US Air pilots may have had those procedures, but I’m fairly sure we had integrated most flying procedures by 2009. At 20:30 the upper ECAM video of the engine gauges is accurate, but for IAE engine equipped aircraft (generally at the time AWA aircraft, USA AB aircraft were CFM powered with different gauges). I suspect they filmed in a simulator using IAE engines.
Agree. I'm a retired US Air/US Airways 28 year pilot and the Capt always took over control of the throttles after the power was set as per our FOM since 1988 at least.
Incidentally the 80 call was always part of our standard operating procedure on takeoff.
@@kenkruger481 Interesting! Even on an airbus? Which has the 100 call everywhere else, if I'm not wrong.
@@Pempel2000 it’s the 80 kt callout he’s referring to. It’s a verbal callout by the pilot monitoring to make the pilot flying aware they are now in the high speed regime of the take off roll.
@@AirbusPilotMark That I know. My understanding is that the callout on an airbus happens at 100 kt. And I was wondering if it was different back then. For what I know, Boeing aircrafts callout are still at 80 kt.
@@Pempel2000 it’s been 80kts for the 21 years I’ve been flying the Airbus.
29:44
I worked on this movie on the VFX side. We put a lot of love into this one. Thank you for acknowledging and appreciating it.
That's actually awesome!
18:30 - From what the NTSB reported after inspecting the two engines, they found out that the compressors of the combustion chamber of the engines were destroyed by at least 3 Canada geese in one engine and 4 in the other engine and that's what made them lose thrust in the engines
Exactly. The passengers also remember the plane shaking a bit during the bird strike and flames shooting out of the engine... Of course passenger recollections can be faulty but I don't think this is way out of order in this depiction.
NTSB: "You were in a 4G negative dive with a large North American water fowl?" Sully: "Because I was inverted."
I remember that from an aviation documentary I saw in 1986. 😳
Lmfao.. Great response!!
NTSB in real life: "Holy shit, good job landing that plane."
I was a flight attendant for northwest Airlines. 2000 to 2005. As a flight attendant, we did not get out of our seats until above 10k with the double chime. Belowe 10k we stayed seated.
It wasn't just the NTSB who objected to the portrayal of the NTSB in this movie. Captain Sullenberger made them change the names of the NTSB officials, because the real people weren't villains.
I think the problem is, there isn't a movie in this story. The real story is: An airplane hit a flock of birds and lost both engines way too soon after takeoff. And then everyone did their jobs, most especially Captain Sullenberger, but also Jeff Skiles, the ATC guy, the flight attendants, the search and rescue people, the tour boat people, the psychologist who came to the hotel to tell the pilots about PTSD, and even the passengers, 'cuz they didn't panic. It's a really cool story, but it's not a movie story.
The Gimli Glider story on the other hand.....
@@eiloenOr UAL232 @ Sioux city...
Of course, it's a movie story! Just look at the box office and the home video sales.
@@Col_Fragg I can't quite tell if you're joking or if you missed the point that they had to make it a lie to make it a successful movie.
the protrayal of the NTSB in the movie played a dual role as the NTSB and the media. most of the villainizing you see in the movie is aimed at the way the media handled everything. for 48 hours after the landing they praised the hell out of the pilots and then like a light switch they immediately turned on them because it increased reader/viewership. so what you see with the NTSB in the movie is exactly what the media was doing even though none of what the media was saying ever actually happened.
"I'm not a widebody captain" 🤣🤣
He had never flown fat Amy 😊
I saw a former flight attendant react to this, and during the crash she started verbalizing procedures and next steps. That really affected her. I appreciate you guys shouting out their importance!
Ok, about a year after this, I was still doing flight test work every two weeks in Baltimore. I’m checking into the hotel, look behind me, holy crap that’s SULLY! Had a short moment to say hi, and he was the most friendly, professional, classy guy I had met. Good dude all the way!
Wombat, I've read the script and Sully was definitely dropping some heat in that scene.
In said script it states, "Sully is in deep thought on the crapper, where his legs become numb and tingly, inhibiting his ability to wipe"
Wrong! I sit on the crapper so long my legs feel like snow on the TV, but everything from the waist up works fine…..especially my wiping hand! 😂
@@tomwilson1006ahhh, you're a sitting wiper. Sully's been a stand to wipe guy since his Phantom days.
Canopy must be open to stand in the Phantom. Dropping a deuce on the taxiway prior to takeoff??? 🤔
@@tomwilson1006 You clearly don't know Sully and his commitment to the mission
@@BlyGuy this comment thread is amazing, and is evidence for me to not to delete the internet for a little while longer. Keep it up; but be warned, I'm watching.
I spent 16 years as a Flightt Attendant with UAL and flew the A-320 hundreds of times. In reality, the portrayal of the NTSB was Hollywood BS. They quickly realized that Sully's choice was correct. The biggest things I noticed were the F/As getting up after the bird strike. On emergencies that I had we wouldn't have left our jumpseats that quick after takeoff. Then, after ditching we could initiate the evacuation. I would have had the doors open before the Captain came back. There's no way the F/A in the back could hear his spoken command. As you know there is an alarm which is triggered in the cockpit. The third thing was the Purser didn't pull the manual inflation handle. We were trained to pull that handle regardless of whether the slide deployed. On the other hand, the way Sully rightly credited the 3 F/As as part of a team. I'll leave the flying critique to you guys but it takes a team to safely evac an aircraft.
Thanks for taking the job seriously. I think the collision at Haneda made people more aware than ever of the importance of the whole crew in an emergency. I was in Japan when it happened, and I immediately told my wife that it was a miracle that they evacuated so many people so quickly.
WOMBAT makes your excellent shows even better. Never Down, Never Out.
20 year dispatcher at YX. Was working that day. When CNN on our big TV broke in with the breaking news we saw a close up shot and heard the anchor say the aircraft looked like one of the new large regional jets. We were the only ones operating E170’s out of LGA at that time. I’ve never heard an SOC as quiet as it was for the next 30 seconds until we saw the telltale Airbus winglets. Still gives me chills. Just a superb bit of airmanship.
Never clicked from one video to another so quickly. Wombat roasting Sully, that’s gotta be seen
That controller is a friend of mine, amazing guy!
The flight scene is quite accurate. I was an airline pilot back then and felt as if I was in that cockpit. It made me realize how professional those pilots were that day. Both of them did such good work. Evidently, Captain Sully took a bit more of the credit, but that is something related to experience, and that's why he's the captain.
As for the APU, I felt so connected to it. Even in the MD80 series that I flew, it was something that my instructors taught me. It's a procedure that you're going to encounter later on in the QRH. In the MD80, it is required to first put it in the start position and after 30 seconds, then you switch it to start. So, they taught me to, as soon as you had an engine failure, to put the APU in the start position so when you get to that part in the procedure you're already one step ahead, and we airline pilots know how important that is. And another tip was to open the fuel x-feed lever to prevent a fuel imbalance. I can tell you this was VERY useful to me when I had my first and only engine failure.
The scene is accurate because the dialog is based on the CVR transcript. Further, the actual flight scene, from takeoff to landing, plays out in real time, lasting just over 5 minutes...
8:33 - This incident and Capt. Sully's response literally changed the procedure for dual engine failure on the Airbus QRH (I'd imagine it's the same for other airliners, too). On dual engine failure, one of the first things to do is now to engage the APU.
Yes they were real pilots in the sim scenes, and that was a real A320 sim at the American Airlines training center in Charlotte. It’s also worth noting there is now a checklist for ‘All engine failure at low altitude’, and the first item on the checklist is to start the APU
The F-4 phantoms in this movie are actually the very last Qf-4 phantoms ever to fly. In fact I got to see one of them
NTSB was frustrated at being portrayed as a prosecutorial-type entity. Their concern is that pilots who get their impression of the NTSB from this film will be reluctant to discuss matters with them if it's ever needed. Valid concern, I think. But at the same time, the movie needs an antagonist. So, it is what it is.
And yes - the NTSB hearing scene was entirely fictitious. That's not how the process works at all. Sully and Skiles were not present. They'd already been interviewed at length over the phone. The CVR had already been heard and transcribed in private. And they sure as heck weren't livestreaming simulations from France in the middle of it. Hell ... the NTSB even said a successful landing at LaGuardia was unlikely, even if the simulation showed it could be done. Makes for a good movie but painted the agency in an undeserved bad light.
i mean, they do get out of their way to not be that guy IRL tho.
They're definitely the good guys, at least from every story I've heard.
@@Astro95Mediai do reasearch in rail transport... i dont work in the us, but have a lot pf contacts there...
... lets say that there reputation on the rail side is... difrent.
The real antagonists are those birds
This happened 1 day after me and the wife landed at LaGuardia, and when she saw it on the news, she started crying bcuz she said “That coulda been us!” My response was “That woulda been fun!” Wrong thing to say to the wife…..
You slept on the couch that night didn't you? 🤣
jk
@Nghilifa Actually no…..however she was very stingy with the covers, in the middle of winter in the northeast 🥶
That thing you say spontaneously and regret as it's leaving your mouth lmao
Woulda been fun retrospectively, in the moment it would have been absolutely terrifying!
It would have been OK if you’d said it in July…
Mover, in your movie…..you’ll be running just like Thomas Cruise!
But I won't be jogging (soft J)
@CWLemoine Bwahahahaha 💀
@CWLemoine I bet you’ll be wearing New Balance tho! 👟
He was stuck there until they interviewed him. He jump seated back to CA once allowed to go home
Got assigned short call tomorrow while watching you guys.
Had someone go to the lav while we were in position on 13 last week. Held all the departures on a 13/22 operation...
I met a guy while I was "flying the couch" as a CFI. Retired Air Force who had flown F-4s. He said if you kept one idle and one just in afterburner, you would have almost no exhaust trail and nearly the same fuel consumption. Nice guy, wish I could remember his name.
This event always make me think of a story Ernest Gann put in Fate is the Hunter called Fortune, where they were departing LGA and had a dual engine failure on a 4 engine aircraft. They were so heavy they got stuck in ground effect on the remaining engines and did a low circle around Riker's to return. The tower lost sight of them and assumed they went into the water.
NTSB talked to bird experts from the Smithsonian about bird type, gender, and weights.
8-VG missing, it means the N2 ate itself in the 1st stage compressor.
AIRBUS records data from all their aircraft in near real time using ACARS. This was highlighted in the Air France 447 accident. There was a story (not sure how true) that AIRBUS called Air France to ask what's up with the plane before Air France knew it was missing.
TBF, most major carriers get timed updates on position and operation of the aircraft while they are in the air these days.
I'd log the flight.
Skiles: "Why do you think we're sitting here right now? Because Sully didn't turn back to LaGuardia"
Mover: "Nope, because they do an NTSB investigation everytime"
...
The only difference is that if they'd tried to return to LaGuardia neither Sully nor Skiles would be sitting there. They'd be in some high-rise building somewhere, burning up together with whomever else was in that building.
"Never forget, Always read the contract" Love it, only Military folk can laugh at that one and not cry.
Sully himself has actually commented on how he disagreed with how the NTSB was portrayed in the movie here. According to him, they were actually really helpful and supportive.
This one's got 'aliens' written all over it and the presence of Wombat just confirms it ;)
I live in Sweden, and we had just gotten access to CNN through satelite TV, and I remember going to check out the scenes on the teli and beeing all like "wow, this guy is a hero and this is definately gonna be a movie some day". Well, here we are!
ACARS information. At our operations, after takeoff the ACARS will downlink a MDC (Maintenance Data Computer) download of takeoff parameters such as VIB, N1/N2, ITT, KIAS, FF, etc for use for engine health tracking and trend data. The takeoff phase provides accurate information on engine health so to speak.
Had a rejected takeoff once because the number 2 engine wasn’t making rated EPR. We taxied clear of the runway and called maintenance. They were able to see all of the parameters and knew some valve wasn’t opening correctly. Back to the gate we went! They definitely get all of the data.
iirc the A320 never went into DIRECT law but maintained ALTERNATE because Sully was smart enough to start the APU very soon. This enabled their displays and A320's alpha protection which prevented them from stalling. Which was useful as they got too slow on "final approach", didn't check airspeed. And the GPWS blaring "pull up" suppressed the aural "speed" warning; switching off GPWS was too far down the checklist. Airbus has since reworked their checklists to accommodate for engine failure at low altitude with subsequent ditching. And they actually learned from Sully that starting the APU much sooner makes sense in multiple scenarios. He saved everyone on board because of his experience and prioritizing the APU step versus the checklist order.
Really enjoyed this one. No feud here. Glad you two made up.👀👍😀😂🤭LOL
the "Witch Trial" was added solely for dramatic effect. Bit the NTSB and Sully spoke out against that part ever happening.
Call sign Wombat? Every Aussie knows what a wombat does:
Eats shoots and leaves.
Methinks there’s a colourful backstory to that callsign.
Eats, roots, shoots & Leaves. Fly Navy ^v^
@@taproom113 , do the Seppos include the roots part? I left it out because I thought it would confuse them. Back in the 1970’s here in Oz we had a tie with a Wombat on it and the initials ERL.
Wasnt he a rated glider pilot ?
He had made Many landings without power And been able to judge distance knowing present altitude based on Glide ratio.
Same for the Gimli Glider .
That Gimli glider story rules.
I truly think being a sailplane pilot makes you a superior pilot in general, (not only "stick-n-rudder" control) but because it forces you to always have an energy management mindset--something that carries over to powered-aviation.
@@SkyborneVisionsSame is true in radio control flying, and many power only flyers get the jitters if they lose power a distance from the strip. Friend of mine flies turbines too, and had a flame out on the climb out some distance away. The club onlookers turned away expecting the imminent crash. He simply brought it around and used gravity to do a proper downwind, base leg and lined up before dropping the gear to land. 😊
@@SkyborneVisions if you’ve ever been a civilian CFI you’ve done lots and lots and lots of engine failure (no engine) approaches
I saw Sully at our 40th Academy reunion and he was the hit of the party. Everyone sorta played it cool - we all have had inflight emergencies - and Sully was happy to talk about the incident. I shook his hand and told him, "Good job." He thanked me and turned to the next guy. Hey, that's flying. Over a career, most make it and some don't.
thanks mover, wombat. great commentary, love the insight
In my company; if the captain does not reject on a callout, we treat him as incapacitated. Even if it’s a “partial”. So the FO conducts the reject.
Re Wombats '"That doesn't seem to be realistic" [31:52-ish ] FYI: NTSB meetings are public and published on their UA-cam channel [ In this particular case search their archives with 1549 ]. Personally I think their YT archive is a great safety resource. Mover may like some of their recent mental health related clips (?). In civil aviation I personally consider NTSB to be world leading due to the volume of accidents they handle. In non-aviation sectors it depends.
Wombat always reminds me of a couple of old crusty seasoned pilots back at the schoolhouse in LRAFB. They were the best of the best and I would proudly go into battle with any one of them on any given day!!😎👍
Both the NTSB and Sully disputed the attitude portrayed in the movie but the exchange here is on public record from the transcript of the meeting.
The intonation can change it a lot from kind to hostile.
Of cause NTSB have to ask some reallt touth qestions.
Mentour Pilot did a really good brake down on the actual incident.
Alright Mover, time to get Sully on for a chat.
I grew up in Valdosta GA, home of Moody AFB. They had Phantoms at the time, and one of their regular routes went right over my house. Saw them all the time and yes, there were always smoke trails.
15:13 that is really surprising to me. It would seem that calling a reject would be one of the most potentially time critical call outs. Having that delayed by having to request it seems counter to reasoning.
The reason is that once a reject is called it is absolute, in many cases when close to reject it is judgement call to reject, forcing extreme deceleration or commit and double back. The non flying officer doesn't gave the hands on capacity to be certain of which is the correct option.
@bengrogan9710 it is not a "judgment call" but I understand what you are implying. You continue takeoff or reject based on sop and your cockpit briefing. Private Pilots are now also being taught to brief phases of flight this way. The idea is to remove that flawed decision makin element in time critical situations.
This incident came shortly after multiple serious incidents involving passenger airlines...
His actions had a positive ripple effect on passengers even to this day.
The hazmat response company I worked for at the time, was contracted to fish that plane out of the Hudson. It was impressive that that plane held together as well as it did, It did leak fuel out of every seam and crevasse once it was on the barge
It's truly amazing in 100 years time we've gone from planes made out of wood and (essentially) paper, to planes that can sustain a significant impact like landing in the Hudson. Very cool you got to be a part of it!
A personal friend did get reamed by either the NTSB or FAA. He was flying light cargo, at night over mountainous terrain. He hit a downdraft and xrashed, both legs broken. Was luckily found and rescued and put in the hospital under sedation and painkillers. Govt. interviewed him in this state and wrote a report throwing him under the bus, with a suspended licence. He had to get lawyers to get it back, but it became a huge black mark that kept him from getting any good flying jobs.
This movie is just flat out good. The ATC parts get overlooked but that guy nailed it. He thought for hours they were all gone, and then he learned they survived. Dang
“I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue”… I heard you wombat! Perfect!
It's the little details that make this movie great - I noticed in the ATC scene right after he said "radar contact lost" in the background you see a guy take a few steps backwards into the frame in what seems like a realistic/natural response, stand behind another ATC seated in the background, and they are both glancing over at Patrick as he continues speaking. Unsure if this is "realistic" in the ATC world, but it really makes 'just background actors' stand out and add depth to the scene.
40:24 she mentions the ACARS data being wrong because of an earlier scene, back when NTSB made the statement of Cactus 1549 crashing “into” rather than “on” the Hudson River. The ACARS data revealed that one of the engines was running on idle, and that it could’ve brought the plane safely back to La Guardia. That’s why retrieving the engines was crucial for Sully’s case!
First 'ruin' clip I see. It's enjoyable, thanks guys. Great insight Wombat, thx again. Here in Europe I've never seen those moustaches in civil as they were sort of obligatory items in the military (whatever branch). Haven't seen the original movie but his makes me think we'll never see a movie of JAL Flight 516. Guess that feat could only have been pulled off in Japan ...
I just watched the film for the first time last night. Thank you guys for your insight, I loved this.
As an engine troop for those who don’t know, the igv or inlet guide vanes, simply direct airflow to the engine inlet and compress air. The vsv/vgv(variable stator vanes, variable guide vanes) are used to still direct air, used to direct to the combustion chamber for you can guess, combustion. The compressor blades being fractured and missing vsv vanes, it would’ve been impossible for the engine to start and run properly.
I am an engine troop, without us you can’t thrust.
FA here, my company operates an all Airbus fleet. Going off the convo about the FAs getting up after takeoff and the chimes, airbus does have a chime when the gear comes up, but its a single LO-chime. The movie portrays a single HI-LO chime, which would indicate an interphone call from either the flight deck or another FA station on the aircraft. Now idk about US airways SOP, but my company does have the CA chime us out of 10,000 with an interphone call from the FD. So yeah, idk why the movie did that, but its a little inaccurate.
Remember in one of my turbine classes watching a film of manufactures testing their engines by shooting frozen turkeys into the inlets... they never "blew up" but the damage was terminal. Love watching those type films. Watching Copa 201's raw investigation film messed me up for a bit for sure...
I've seen turbines that didn't pass the "bird test" in actual service. The carnage in the hot section was unbelievable. I wish we had a chance to borescope it, but of course it went back to the shop.
@@dougrobinson8602 100%... I remember while on a walk-through at America West in Tempe, we were shown inspection items and asked what we thought if they were in/out of spec... showed us an hp guide vane that I thought would be way out, but was actually still well within tolerance and going back in the engine... thank God for redundancy I guess.
Ok, I have missed the mover ruins movies.
Both the NTSB invesigators and Sully have complained about how the NTSB was portrayed as adversarial. In truth the whole let's "get serious" bit happened in a later proceeding involving insurance claims and whether Sully and Skiles had done enough to save the aircraft.
In both piloted simulations the ATC said that they had LaGuardia on the left and Teterboro on the right. The film showed both the successful and unsuccessful flight simulations turning left. That left me scratching my head - pun intended.
I believe in Harvey Dent!
HARVEY DENT. CAN HE BE TRUSTED?
There were a lot of F4s in Germany back in the 70s. Often we would come across the smoke trails and then hunt them down and jump them. Everyone jumped everyone else back then. Tons of airplanes, Lots of fun. Like a non stop red flag.
Like one other fellow said. Min burner on one and idle on the other was very common for the F4s in a fight. Below 1500 feet in Germany was fighter airspace.
Good video. Bravo Zulu to Sully and his team.
The "I would of done it in July" rebuttal was classic
The other film that has a similar feel is 'Crash Landing: The Rescue of Flight 232' , the one where an airliner lost all hydraulics due to the tail engine fan disk breaking up and severing the lines. It then broke up on landing but a lot of people survived.
I checked the transcript for the "mayday mayday mayday" call. He did call mayday IRL, but the mistake is he got the callsign wrong which seems about what you'd expect. IRL he called "Cactus 1539"
15:27:32.9 RDO-1 mayday mayday mayday. uh this is uh Cactus fifteen thirty nine hit birds, we've lost thrust (in/on) both engines we're turning back towards LaGuardia.
Yup...they consulted bird experts. I doubt not many at the NTSB know how truly big and the carnage a Canada Goose can do, let alone 4-5 of them.
The TRACON scene was very good. Exactly how the room and controllers would have acted. They even used real controllers as the background extras.
Somewhere between pushback and takeoff they changed from V2500 to CFM-56 engines. That was a quick engine change.
thanks for pointing out the one scene of the 737 with scimitars!! that one always bugged me for being the one bit of the movie I could tell was inaccurate. loved yalls reactions sully is one of my top favorite movies
Nice tribute to a true professional and airline crews in general. Thanks. 👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
"Can I jump out now, sir?" 😆
As I recall Airbus called for full flaps for a water ditching. They claimed that there would have been less damage (hence, more buoyancy) to the aircraft had he used full flaps.
I think they also failed to deploy the "ditch" switch, which would have closed several openings which allowed water egress.
Thoughts?
Airbus had to acknowledge that their engine flameout checklist was too long for engine failures at lower altitudes, so the crew could never reach the ditching procedures you mention. The checklist assumed engine failures at high altitude over the ocean, with ditching only after trying a lot to restart the engines. After the accident they reworked their checklists to include ditching after engine failure at a low altitude. They also made starting the APU one of the first tasks.
I was on Flight 5050 in 89, and this movie triggered ptsd that I didn't know I still had.
The parallels are crazy. Same airline, same airport, same destination, both went in the water, 20 years apart... but they were airborne much longer than we were. (I believe the report said the pilot said, "Here goes nothing" before crashing).
@@xTomWolfx If you lookup the channel Flight Safety Detectives here on UA-cam, it features 2 real OG's of the NTSB, Gregory Feith (seen on several Mayday Air Disaster eps) and John Golia (or as I call him "the cog-father") - search for the video "John Goglia’s Unique Insight into USAir Plane Crash - Episode 171" - John Goglia was working for USAir at the time of the crash. He speaks about it in a calm manner with insider knowledge. I truly hope this helps your PTSD. Everyone is different but sometimes hearing it discussed without 'theatrics' and with facts can help.
@@xTomWolfx My previous reply/comment vanished so here it is again: If you lookup 'Flight Safety Detectives' it features 2 real OG's of the NTSB, Gregory Feith (seen on several Mayday Air Disaster eps) and John Goglia (or as I call him "the cog-father") - search for the vid "John Goglia’s Unique Insight into USAir Plane Crash" - John Goglia was working for USAir at the time of the crash. He speaks about it in a calm manner with insider knowledge. I truly hope this helps your PTSD. Everyone is different but sometimes hearing it discussed without 'theatrics' and with facts can help.
I think I remember that Air France SOP, both pilots have their hand on the throttle
I'm not a pilot and my only knowledge of cockpit procedures comes from the various UA-cam videos I've watched, especially those breaking down aircraft incidents and accidents, but I can definitely see a reason for having the Captain guard the thrust levers during takeoff as well as an argument for assigning that duty to the Pilot Monitoring, regardless of rank. Both are related to CRM. For the Captain only procedure, the most likely reason is that Captains typically have much more experience, both on the type and overall, than the First Officer. That means that they are more likely to be able to handle a higher workload effectively and the First Officer can focus more on their assigned duties. For the Pilot Monitoring procedure, this would even out the workload between the pilots and reduce the amount of time needed to adjust the thrust setting if the plane's speed varied from expected values during the takeoff roll and climb
34:48 i had the pleasure of meeting Jeffrey Skiles once. when i asked him about this movie, he said that the movie was mostly accurate, but the NTSB was nothing like what is shown in the movie. he also said that in real life the cockpit wasn't nearly that calm, and that he and Sully didn't have time for all those "dramatic glances" that are shown in the movie, which kind of amused me since i never thought of those scenes as "calm", lol.
I don't recall any reference to the ditching switch on the overhead panel to close the outflow valve. Once they knew they were landing on the Hudson that should have followed automatically, even without reference to the QRH. As a retired A320 and A330 captain I can say Sully did an excellent job. Subsequent debrief may ask the question about the ditching button but time was not on their side.
Can you ruin Sully?
I've been looking forward to this one.
EPR is on RR equipped A320s. N1 on CFM. The chime on gear up is normal. Same on gear down.
Loved this one!! I was wondering if you could do Memphis Belle for the next one?
As they say, any landing you can walk away from is a good one... and if 155 people can walk away from it, it's a very good landing.
Love this guys! Big Aviation fan (not a pilot) but its nice to see pilots talk about a pilot film. Great job.
I can’t stop thinking about that beautiful Bronco!
Awesome! 😀👍 You two should definitely take on "Die Hard 2" next - imagine all the thrilling airport and airline scenes!
Ref the discussion about RTO: Even though the PIC would be the one to call STOP or GO, CM1 can still get incapacitated on the takeoff roll. I would assume that CM2 would reject if the PIC is deemed incapacitated when an incident occurs that would normally warrant an RTO (especially under 80/100kts depending on SOP)
As for the ECAM display, it is completely accurate. IAE engines work slightly different than the CFM engines on the Airbus. The FADEC controls the thrust based on EPR readings rather than N1 readings.
When it comes to the movie's portrayal of the ATC, while the RTF was definitely poor, I'd say it's realistic. At least back in 2009, there wasn't too much focus on having accurate comms, so people were easily quite sloppy on the radio. The comms and coordination internally were also quite realistic, and like Wombat's saying, the guy did a great job. Just like you "fly the plane" as a pilot, you keep doing your job as a controller until the bitter end.
And dude, I am a grown ass man, but if there's any movie or story that'll make me cry, it's this one.
The moment Sully flipped his shoulder harness off I knew it would be very realistic. I was in a cinema during a layover while operating out of base at the time. Such an accurate well made movie.
Sometimes you get to try again if it doesn’t go right the first time.
Sometimes you only get one go. . .
Those who only get one go either get it right, or they do not.
If they do not, you can’t tell them they got it wrong. 🔥