Did anyone notice, although spread is what we were mostly comparing here, that the patterns on the rifled chokes appear to be more circular like an opening flower versus the more random pattern from the smooth cylinder bore choke? Very interesting for sure
Yep. That's what spin will do for you, but at a cost. Don't bother trying this over 20 yards. I've seen a rifled bore shoot 00buck at 50 yards and not one pellet hit a 3 foot target. That means the deer got away without a scratch.
I expected a crazy spread with the rifled choke. The bullet-type sabot slugs... we didn't get any stability with a rifled choke, but it would still be interesting if you can try it.
A fully rifled barrel will produce a huge spread, at least with birdshot and I presume buckshot too, so the rifled choke probably isn't long enough to have the same effect.
I too watch your channel and am impressed with what you and Officer Greg produce, but I have to tell you that my experiences with both factory Foster slugs and custom loads using BPI's Thug Slugs and DGS (Dangerous Game Slugs), I get much better accuracy using a rifled choke tube! I'm shooting a J C HIGGINS Model 20 which has a pinned barrel and it's accurate out to 50 yards.
12 years military 3 years LE, I'm really into guntuber videos and its honestly very refreshing to see a guy do a test/education with no BS, no bluster, no posturing, no bragging, no pissing contest, no cringey attention seeking douchery. just straight to the point, let physics do the rest. Respect.
This is extremely relevant information and I appreciate you taking the time to make this video as it indicates that for someone using a tactical style shotgun where you can change the choke tubes, you’d really be no worse off intentionally leaving the rifled choke in for home defense where you’d primarily be using buckshot without drastically increasing your pattern from a cylinder choke however if the fight managed to move outdoors you’d also have a drastic increase in accuracy when switching to slugs.
Just be sure to pattern your particular shotgun. Shotguns are individuals, even two examples of the same make and model can throw radically different patterns with a particular load.
@@lukedog7028 Me too. I was assuming that at 20 yards the rifled choke would barely find any hits on paper. This weekend I'm going to try this out to see if I get similar results.
I watched the video you mentioned about slugs in rifled choke tube V. Smooth tube. I've been wondering how much difference barrel length makes. Say 20in slug barrel V. 28in. Maybe with or without rifled choke tube. I think there's confusion. People think week you gotta use that short slug barrel to hunt deer. A few guys like you have shown I don't need a rifled shot gun and $$sabot slugs. Thanks!
I’m thinking that when the the shot cup hits the rifling it just shreds off some plastic and does not really spin the load, and that’s why they’re so similar.
So methodical, clear, and concise. Bravo! I'd like to hypothesize (ok, 'guess', without really knowing what I'm talking about) that the rifling isn't doing much to spread the shot because the shot doesn't have much contact with the rifling. I've read that shot only grazes the sides of the barrel, with little force, as it moves up the barrel.
A rifled choke tube turns a shotgun into a modern version of a paradox rifle. Rule of thumb is that buckshot spreads an inc per yard of range, in practice, I have found my experiments with rifled chokes in Remington 870 barrels to duplicate his results very closely. Coincidentally, I have found that improved cylinder chokes usually tighten buckshot patterns nicely- 5 to 6 inch patterns at 10 yards, and generally shoot Foster type slugs surprisingly well. Tightening a choke to modified ends up making the patterns bigger than a cylinder bore in most cases.
I wonder how the duplex rounds would spread out. They always seemed to be very choke picky for me over the years... I never shot one through a rifled choke though.
SIR, Thank you for information to this novice shooter. just started to learn my shotgun and will not be as intimidated once I get into the range with other shooters. Thanks again.
Good video, I was both surprised and impressed with the accuracy when you shot the slugs through the rifled choke tube (Thanks UA-cam for not notifying me of that video) 🙄👍👍🇦🇺.
Nice job ,I had a 16ga. Ithaca 37 with a fully rifled slug barrel that shot wild large,, donut patterns with 12 pellet 1 buck! Surprising to me also,as modern buckshot choke tubes use a wad spin arresting feature for extra tight patterns (patternmaster, buckicker etc.)I work with my 10 bores to generate super tight patterns with buckshot but also with Turkey loads thanks buddy I enjoy your show.rick nicholson,va.
I am new to this, but I noticed that 9 - 00 bucket shot are somewhat saboted in the shot wadding. This plastic encasement in this round does not allow for the scattering of the pellets (per the common thought) through a rifled barrel. Seems that how the pellets are encased in the round would make a big difference in the pattern.
I’m guessing that because the shot are loose in the cup when it reached the rifling the cup rotated and the balls did not, and because it moved so quickly it could have caused the balls themselves to spen individually not as a group thereby making them fly straighter, I think if you shot them out of a rifle barrel they would make a pattern with a hole in the center because in this barrel they fly straight until they’re getting up to speed and then the cup rotates really quick at the end thereby not giving them time to start rotating as a group
That theory would require the pellets to be suspended inside the cup without actually making any contact with the interior walls. However, that's not the case. There are pellets contacting the walls of the cup and those pellets are contacting pellets in the middle. They remain inside the cup until after they leave the barrel. Consequently, they would be inclined to rotate along with the wad during its travel through the rifled choke. Moreover, the centrifugal force created by the rifling would cause the pellets to remain inside the cup slightly longer than they would normally do as the force exerted by the rotational action (ω = ω0 + αt) vectors from the center of the cup outwardly toward the walls of the cup. As the spin rate lessens and the wad slows down, the centrifugal force weakens and the pellets begin to exit the wad with their own rotational motion. It is no accident that the pellets from the rifled choke seemed to have a more concentric dispersal pattern.
That Barretta looks like it really does a good job of absorbing the recoil from those buckshot loads. Your shoulder hardly moves on each shot. I have a Mossberg 500 turkey, and that thing kicks like a mule.
I thought the pattern would have a more pronounced doughnut shape at the longer distance. PLEASE try a Buck and Ball load or Winchester PDX1 defender with the 1 oz slug and three 00 pellets with the rifled choke!
The guy at my local gun store told me I could use a rifled choke tube in my smooth bore barrel and shoot sabot slugs and get the same results as someone using a rifled barrel. Is this true??
I think the rifled choke would do in a pinch, but the cylinder bore had more pellets at the point of aim, which I think might make the difference between wounding and critical.
do you think theres a off chance that when the wad touches the rifling in the chock tube that it slows down just enough the pellets get in front of the wad ...and dont spin with the wad ??
I like the way you think! It also could be that the pellets 'slip' in the cup and don't spin with it. Without an internal high speed camera, we'll never know. lol
To be honest, I've shot and carried handguns, used my Marlin 1895 (45-70) and my PTR 91 (.308) for almost 19 years, but my only exposure to shotguns was my Mossberg Maverick 88, and my Shockwave. Watching your channel has really helped me to learn stuff that I should've learned a long time ago! Thank you for the crash course big guy 👍🏽 Oh, I'll have an SDS Lynx 12ga before the weeks over, and this will be my first semiauto shotgun. The 10, 12, and 20 round mags will be an interesting first experience 😅
Excelent video. Very informative. I would really like to see you do the same for a turkey load, maybe #2 or #4 shot. Smooth bore cylinder choke vs the rifled choke tube. Wonder if the smaller pellets will spread more.
It would be interesting to see a comparison of waterfowl shotgun shells used for hunting both ducks and geese size targets. You would not necessarily have to compare them with a rifled choke tube. But; in the future it would be great see this subject explored. There is a great book on the subject; written by Bob Brister called "Shotgunning The Art and the Science". I know you would enjoy reading it because it is hard to put down; once you start reading it. The book has lots of good information and testing data on shotguns and shotgun shells.
I have the same Beretta shotgun you have. 2 questions. Have you been able to find a way to shoot a 22 mag with this gun? what choke is the tightest for small game hunting?
I wonder if the threaded choke is almost acting like the chokes that slow down the wad, without a constriction. Maybe it's just interacting with the plastic. You could follow up by hot gluing the pellets together, and see if you get slug accuracy, which you probably wouldn't I think. Or, you could try the old cut shell trick, if you think it is safe. Maybe you could get good 50 yard accuracy out of a cut shell with a threaded choke.
That’s my thought- as the shot goes through the forcing cone it stays in the cup and gets the minor constriction- once the shot cup hits the rifling it slows just enough to allow the shot to pull away and leave the shot cup just behind....
the choke does not run the full length of the barrel, as a dispersant barrel would, so the pattern is not affected as much but nevertheless more regular, thank you for your good videos
Is the shot cup a solid cup or separated like a birdshot shotcup? Thinking if it’s solid it would perform similar to flight control wads. whereas the shot remains in the cup for a long period of time and less susceptible to the spin it would if the shotcup separated upon leaving the muzzle and releasing the shot immediately? Just wondering
Very interesting. I suspect that the lack of choke meant the rifling didn't interact with the plastic cup enough to induce more than a negligible amount of rotation, thereby mitigating the centrifugal effect. I would love to see you do a video where you use an improved cylinder rifled choke or higher to see if the shot pattern widens dramatically. Thanks for a great video sir!
Thanks for the great content homie! Wondering if you can do a comparison between the foster slug and the Lee key drive slug with the smooth bore and rifled choke
I wonder if you had use a full length rifle barrel , it would give more SPING to the bbs and spread the shot more when it leave the muzzle , compare to a short barrel tip
Vwry interesting videos with the rifled choke. You should test also the 10 pellet 000 buckshot. They don't fit inside the wad. So is it going to be effected from the rifles?
Great video I am a new shooter want to go turkey hunting and also deer hunting. Just want a Maverick 88 would like to know what show do you recommend for it
You have to respect this man for his skill. His humble nature & honesty is a bonus.
👏👏👏👏
Did anyone notice, although spread is what we were mostly comparing here, that the patterns on the rifled chokes appear to be more circular like an opening flower versus the more random pattern from the smooth cylinder bore choke? Very interesting for sure
Yes, that really surprised me!
That's the first thing that I noticed. I need to order that choke
Yep. That's what spin will do for you, but at a cost. Don't bother trying this over 20 yards. I've seen a rifled bore shoot 00buck at 50 yards and not one pellet hit a 3 foot target. That means the deer got away without a scratch.
I expected a crazy spread with the rifled choke. The bullet-type sabot slugs... we didn't get any stability with a rifled choke, but it would still be interesting if you can try it.
I wish you and. Buffalo could get together for a few videos that would be fun. 😁
A fully rifled barrel will produce a huge spread, at least with birdshot and I presume buckshot too, so the rifled choke probably isn't long enough to have the same effect.
If only someone's channel had a high-speed camera to see how buckshot looked though a smooth choke and a rifled choke...
I too watch your channel and am impressed with what you and Officer Greg produce, but I have to tell you that my experiences with both factory Foster slugs and custom loads using BPI's Thug Slugs and DGS (Dangerous Game Slugs), I get much better accuracy using a rifled choke tube! I'm shooting a J C HIGGINS Model 20 which has a pinned barrel and it's accurate out to 50 yards.
That is a great choke tube
Good to know info! Scientific no BS good video
12 years military 3 years LE, I'm really into guntuber videos and its honestly very refreshing to see a guy do a test/education with no BS, no bluster, no posturing, no bragging, no pissing contest, no cringey attention seeking douchery.
just straight to the point, let physics do the rest. Respect.
Thankfully, a Buffalo video to break up these crazy times.
True that
Straight to the point. No “Brought to you by” BS. Subscribed. 👍🏻👍🏻
I appreciate VDOs • Your in my top 3. Too many comedians. You stay on point and give straightforward analysis. Thank You.
This is extremely relevant information and I appreciate you taking the time to make this video as it indicates that for someone using a tactical style shotgun where you can change the choke tubes, you’d really be no worse off intentionally leaving the rifled choke in for home defense where you’d primarily be using buckshot without drastically increasing your pattern from a cylinder choke however if the fight managed to move outdoors you’d also have a drastic increase in accuracy when switching to slugs.
Just be sure to pattern your particular shotgun. Shotguns are individuals, even two examples of the same make and model can throw radically different patterns with a particular load.
I guess this proves you have to pattern your own gun and not make assumptions.
Very interesting results and counterintuitive to what one would expect. A real eye opener for me.
Thank you, good to know. God be with you.
Great information! I always assumed that the rifled choke would open up patterns way more than that. Very cool. Thank you!
I would of lost money on that experiment
@@lukedog7028 Me too. I was assuming that at 20 yards the rifled choke would barely find any hits on paper. This weekend I'm going to try this out to see if I get similar results.
I really respect and appreciate the work you do. God Bless
Those results surprised me a little. Thanks for another very interesting video!
Another great video! The results fooled me completely. Thanks!
I watched the video you mentioned about slugs in rifled choke tube V. Smooth tube.
I've been wondering how much difference barrel length makes. Say 20in slug barrel V. 28in. Maybe with or without rifled choke tube. I think there's confusion. People think week you gotta use that short slug barrel to hunt deer.
A few guys like you have shown I don't need a rifled shot gun and $$sabot slugs. Thanks!
What really surprised me is the uniformity of the patterns out the rifled choke tube. I never expected that at all.
WOW! I know I said this before, but I would NEVER have seen that coming!
Good video. Straight to the point. Love it
Thanks for the real world comparison...
Your work is excemplitory. As my daddy would say!!!
I’m thinking that when the the shot cup hits the rifling it just shreds off some plastic and does not really spin the load, and that’s why they’re so similar.
I'm betting the shot cup us spinning but the load is sitting stationary. Think like a torque converter
Good show. Thank you.
Which could be the difference using federal flight control 9 pellets buckshots??
How's buck shot through a turkey choke? Number 4 probably ok but 000 might be a problem?
Hi Buffalo, Being I'm a fan of Federal Flight control, it would be interesting to see what it would do in the rifled tube. Have a great day!!!
So methodical, clear, and concise. Bravo! I'd like to hypothesize (ok, 'guess', without really knowing what I'm talking about) that the rifling isn't doing much to spread the shot because the shot doesn't have much contact with the rifling. I've read that shot only grazes the sides of the barrel, with little force, as it moves up the barrel.
Appreciate it. I've got a rifled choke that I've not had the chance use. Settled my curiosity. Thx
I can tell this is going to be a great channel.
Keep em comin ol buddy!!
Good video. We had the opposite experience with a fully rifled HR 12ga Slug gun. Past 10yds we couldn't get any pellets on a B21 size torso target.
A rifled choke tube turns a shotgun into a modern version of a paradox rifle. Rule of thumb is that buckshot spreads an inc per yard of range, in practice, I have found my experiments with rifled chokes in Remington 870 barrels to duplicate his results very closely. Coincidentally, I have found that improved cylinder chokes usually tighten buckshot patterns nicely- 5 to 6 inch patterns at 10 yards, and generally shoot Foster type slugs surprisingly well. Tightening a choke to modified ends up making the patterns bigger than a cylinder bore in most cases.
Always interesting thanks Buffalo!
Thanks for the refresher video. Much appreciated.
I wonder how the duplex rounds would spread out. They always seemed to be very choke picky for me over the years... I never shot one through a rifled choke though.
Interesting results. Thanks for the video Buffalo.
Awesome video, I was really surprised at the results of this testing.
Very good information with & without rifled choke tube. nice experience . well done .
Thanks again! I appreciate ya watching!
Coming from a competitive rifle shooter; Great video and very informative for what I was looking for! TYVM
How does a rifled choke perform with various loads in comparison to a fully rifled shotgun barrel?
SIR, Thank you for information to this novice shooter. just started to learn my shotgun and will not be as intimidated once I get into the range with other shooters. Thanks again.
Informative and entertaining. Thanks once again buffalo.
Could you shoot 7 1/2 through it for skeet??
Thanks ☘️😎
I like this guy's videos a lot of knowledge and a good old boy way about him
Good video, I was both surprised and impressed with the accuracy when you shot the slugs through the rifled choke tube (Thanks UA-cam for not notifying me of that video) 🙄👍👍🇦🇺.
Your videos are always entertaining and informative...thank you
Excellent video. Thank you!
Thanks 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
How about cut shells or wax slugs?
0:00 Pirates union! Aaaaarrrgh.
Hey Buffalo, how about testing Brenneke slugs from cylinder bore vs the rifled choke tube?
Nice job ,I had a 16ga. Ithaca 37 with a fully rifled slug barrel that shot wild large,, donut patterns with 12 pellet 1 buck! Surprising to me also,as modern buckshot choke tubes use a wad spin arresting feature for extra tight patterns (patternmaster, buckicker etc.)I work with my 10 bores to generate super tight patterns with buckshot but also with Turkey loads thanks buddy I enjoy your show.rick nicholson,va.
Thanks for sharing and take care. 👍
That’s pretty interesting stuff. Thanks for the video.
Great vid thumbs up. Still jelly of your yard
Edit : what i meant to say is your yard is still looking awesome
the these 12 gau. guns slugs are very very hard hitters on both ends with high brass shells not for wimps!!!!! wonderful shows thank you
I am new to this, but I noticed that 9 - 00 bucket shot are somewhat saboted in the shot wadding. This plastic encasement in this round does not allow for the scattering of the pellets (per the common thought) through a rifled barrel. Seems that how the pellets are encased in the round would make a big difference in the pattern.
Some good results as very interesting on this one....Good stuff....
Another interesting test and results.
Buffalo, what happens if you fire a shell without a choke installed in end of barrel in a threaded barrel?
What about a cut shell? Great video again! 👍🏾😀❤️🇺🇸
Does sabot slugs shoot well out of a rifled choke tube?
Please provide a link to the previous video with rifled slugs
I’m guessing that because the shot are loose in the cup when it reached the rifling the cup rotated and the balls did not, and because it moved so quickly it could have caused the balls themselves to spen individually not as a group thereby making them fly straighter, I think if you shot them out of a rifle barrel they would make a pattern with a hole in the center because in this barrel they fly straight until they’re getting up to speed and then the cup rotates really quick at the end thereby not giving them time to start rotating as a group
That theory would require the pellets to be suspended inside the cup without actually making any contact with the interior walls. However, that's not the case. There are pellets contacting the walls of the cup and those pellets are contacting pellets in the middle. They remain inside the cup until after they leave the barrel. Consequently, they would be inclined to rotate along with the wad during its travel through the rifled choke. Moreover, the centrifugal force created by the rifling would cause the pellets to remain inside the cup slightly longer than they would normally do as the force exerted by the rotational action (ω = ω0 + αt) vectors from the center of the cup outwardly toward the walls of the cup. As the spin rate lessens and the wad slows down, the centrifugal force weakens and the pellets begin to exit the wad with their own rotational motion. It is no accident that the pellets from the rifled choke seemed to have a more concentric dispersal pattern.
That Barretta looks like it really does a good job of absorbing the recoil from those buckshot loads. Your shoulder hardly moves on each shot. I have a Mossberg 500 turkey, and that thing kicks like a mule.
Good show. You are entertaining. Good info.
I thought the pattern would have a more pronounced doughnut shape at the longer distance. PLEASE try a Buck and Ball load or Winchester PDX1 defender with the 1 oz slug and three 00 pellets with the rifled choke!
Great information! Thanks for that!
The guy at my local gun store told me I could use a rifled choke tube in my smooth bore barrel and shoot sabot slugs and get the same results as someone using a rifled barrel. Is this true??
From what I've seen it's not enough to stabilize them only using the rifles choke.
I think the rifled choke would do in a pinch, but the cylinder bore had more pellets at the point of aim, which I think might make the difference between wounding and critical.
do you think theres a off chance that when the wad touches the rifling in the chock tube that it slows down just enough the pellets get in front of the wad ...and dont spin with the wad ??
I like the way you think! It also could be that the pellets 'slip' in the cup and don't spin with it. Without an internal high speed camera, we'll never know. lol
Frank deluca well it improved the accuracy of slugs.
To be honest, I've shot and carried handguns, used my Marlin 1895 (45-70) and my PTR 91 (.308) for almost 19 years, but my only exposure to shotguns was my Mossberg Maverick 88, and my Shockwave. Watching your channel has really helped me to learn stuff that I should've learned a long time ago! Thank you for the crash course big guy 👍🏽 Oh, I'll have an SDS Lynx 12ga before the weeks over, and this will be my first semiauto shotgun. The 10, 12, and 20 round mags will be an interesting first experience 😅
I wonder if birdshot would have the same results. Would it make shooting skeet easier or harder?
do you have a fully rifled barrel? i would like to see rifled barrel vs rifled choke accuracy test.
This saved me so much time deciding what to get
Excelent video. Very informative.
I would really like to see you do the same for a turkey load, maybe #2 or #4 shot. Smooth bore cylinder choke vs the rifled choke tube. Wonder if the smaller pellets will spread more.
It would be interesting to see a comparison of waterfowl shotgun shells used for hunting both ducks and geese size targets. You would not necessarily have to compare them with a rifled choke tube. But; in the future it would be great see this subject explored. There is a great book on the subject; written by Bob Brister called "Shotgunning The Art and the Science". I know you would enjoy reading it because it is hard to put down; once you start reading it. The book has lots of good information and testing data on shotguns and shotgun shells.
Very good, I was told that the pellets would damage the choke tube, whats your thoughts
I have the same Beretta shotgun you have. 2 questions. Have you been able to find a way to shoot a 22 mag with this gun? what choke is the tightest for small game hunting?
I wonder if the threaded choke is almost acting like the chokes that slow down the wad, without a constriction. Maybe it's just interacting with the plastic. You could follow up by hot gluing the pellets together, and see if you get slug accuracy, which you probably wouldn't I think. Or, you could try the old cut shell trick, if you think it is safe. Maybe you could get good 50 yard accuracy out of a cut shell with a threaded choke.
That’s my thought- as the shot goes through the forcing cone it stays in the cup and gets the minor constriction- once the shot cup hits the rifling it slows just enough to allow the shot to pull away and leave the shot cup just behind....
How about some turkey loads?
I really like your videos buffalo keep up the good work !
the choke does not run the full length of the barrel, as a dispersant barrel would, so the pattern is not affected as much but nevertheless more regular, thank you for your good videos
Awesome looking shotgun!
i was actually wondering about that and ran across this video . thumbs up 👍👍👍👍👍
Is the shot cup a solid cup or separated like a birdshot shotcup? Thinking if it’s solid it would perform similar to flight control wads. whereas the shot remains in the cup for a long period of time and less susceptible to the spin it would if the shotcup separated upon leaving the muzzle and releasing the shot immediately? Just wondering
Good comparison Buffalo. I'm not much of a shot gunner,but you can always learn new things. Hey y'all didn't get rained on sweet hahaha. Have a goodin
Very interesting. I suspect that the lack of choke meant the rifling didn't interact with the plastic cup enough to induce more than a negligible amount of rotation, thereby mitigating the centrifugal effect. I would love to see you do a video where you use an improved cylinder rifled choke or higher to see if the shot pattern widens dramatically. Thanks for a great video sir!
Thanks for the great content homie! Wondering if you can do a comparison between the foster slug and the Lee key drive slug with the smooth bore and rifled choke
Also interesting test in that with 18” cylinder bore barrel we expected and taught that 00 Buckshot would spread ~ 1” per yard?
I wonder if you had use a full length rifle barrel , it would give more SPING to the bbs and spread the shot more when it leave the muzzle , compare to a short barrel tip
Vwry interesting videos with the rifled choke. You should test also the 10 pellet 000 buckshot. They don't fit inside the wad. So is it going to be effected from the rifles?
Great video
Have you ever pattern 00 buck in the mossberg 835 24 inch if so what choke tube
Once again, nicely done sir. Keep up the shooting and these videos always make me jealous and wish I was there shooting too.
I dont know why I thought this but I thought " he looks like an honest man".
Great video I am a new shooter want to go turkey hunting and also deer hunting. Just want a Maverick 88 would like to know what show do you recommend for it
Your videos are great straight to the point and understandable. Wonder if you'd get same results with fully rifled barrel.
I love your vids. Thanks!
Great video Buffalo. I too expected the pellets to spin out like a thrown cast net, but heck no. The plastic wad must have negated the effect.