Was Batman Responsible For Injustice Superman's Downfall?
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- Опубліковано 27 бер 2024
- Welcome! This is a brand new injustice rant or injustice breakdown where we dive into the idea of Was Batman Responsible For Injustice Superman's Downfall? In this video I talk about all the reasons why i could see Batman being a reason for the downfall of Superman in the Injustice franchise or in Injustice Gods Among Us or Injustice 2! If you enjoy make sure to leave a like, sub and comment down below suggestions for future comic or DC based videos!
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My take is killing the Joker wasn't a bad idea it was Wonder Woman's manipulation and gaslighting is what made Superman fall in the dark path
I wanna see I agree on the other hand like my brother who's a counselor said "it's not your fault for what happened to you, but it is your responsibility to seek help"
SUPER MAN NEVER SEEKED HELP HE NEVER GRIEVED and that's the problem
That is true it is all Wonder Woman fault
Wonder woman would fully support that idea as she's never wrong in her mind
.
You ain't lying about that
Its sad most people think of superman and especially wonder woman as the injustice versions.
That "You killed a man" from Batman is what made Superman think Batman turned against him.
The two of them are peas in a pod. Both have strong singular focuses that blinds them. And for both Batman and Superman, the death of Lois, the baby (whether that be Jon or someone else) and Metropolis was that blinding event.
& that man killed his best friend's wife & unborn son & with his whole city, best friend of the year...
I will say that the “Justice” System, Joker and Wonder Woman are the most responsible for Superman’s fall from grace. The Gotham City Justice system kept allowing psychopaths like the Joker and Zasz break out and run rampant after Batman stops them, Joker for obvious reasons, and then Wonder Woman for literally manipulating Clark’s emotions and pretty much turning the pages of Superman’s book of tyranny. Although I do think that Batman should’ve helped him after the Gov kidnapped his parents.
"I may have struck the blow, but you... you're the one who killed her." *- Green Goblin*
What really infuriated me about Batman was when he judged Superman as irredeemable for killing Parademons. Even Huntress highlighted how Superman's actions singlehandedly prevented a catastrophic invasion that could have claimed thousands or even millions of lives. And Batman's response? "He slaughtered thousands"... It's utterly baffling! Moreover, it's hinted in the comics that he mourned the Joker's death, which adds another layer to his questionable moral compass.
This single act puts him on the same level as the Joker!
The way he treated his son Damian after Damian accidentally killed Grayson speaks volumes about his character. Additionally, in a scene from Injustice 2, Batman repeatedly punches a guard in the head, prompting Damian to question, "So you won't kill, but you're okay with traumatic brain injuries?" Did Batman address this concern? Not at all. He simply brushed it aside.
Later, when they confront the captured Victor Zsasz, a remorseless serial killer responsible for the deaths of 121 women, Damian asks him how many women he killed. Zsasz, grinning, responds. Damian rightly points out that Batman prefers fighting his friends rather than tackling the real problem, which holds true in this universe. And how does Batman respond? By fighting and harming his own son.
Batman's supposed "moral code" doesn't make him virtuous; it makes him foolish and a hypocrite.
Individuals like the Joker and Zsasz are beyond redemption. They take pleasure in harming innocent people and cannot be rehabilitated. How anyone can oppose their execution baffles me. It's even more incomprehensible that they haven't been executed yet. I wouldn't be surprised if Batman recommends sending them to Arkham for rehabilitation himself.
He deems Superman irredeemable and goes to great lengths to thwart him by exploiting his vulnerabilities. He employs Red Sun grenades, gold kryptonite, standard kryptonite, and even attempts to banish him to the Phantom Zone. Yet, where is this level of dedication when it comes to dealing with far more despicable and irredeemable villains like Zsasz or the Joker? Instead of taking decisive action, he merely sends them to the same rehabilitation center from which they repeatedly escape, allowing them to continue their criminal activities.
In this universe, Batman appears more like a joke than a symbol of justice.
He isnt wrong as a superhero and hero he is right in not killing them. The one should be doing the killing is the law. Batman just bring them to justice not murder them in cold blood. Killing and Injury are different. Injury u can recover from them but if u are dead theres no way back. Joker isnt a sane person so even if hes mourned for him i think its fine. They have a love and hate relationship so to him its fine. Damian also admits that its not right to judge and kill criminals after Batman died because of him. Batman is stating that heroes shouldnt be above the law. If heroes are above the law the world is as good as a shithole to live in cause anytime u do anything wrong u can say goodbye to your lives.
Also Robin is blinded by his anger and hatred and his stupid ego to see whats right and wrong.
"Were you a friend?"
"I think so; I honestly couldn't say"
Everyone had a part to play in the Injustice storyline Batman, Joker, Superman, Wonder Woman, Harley, and most importantly the Justice system. I would definitely like to see this topic explored more but by the characters themselves in Injustice 3
Too bad Injustice 3 got cancelled 😞
My brother said did wonder women make him kill all those people in the joker gang?
It's hard everybody had a part Superman didn't grieve Batman even said u need to grieve I got shot in the back of the head in 2017 and never GRIEVED and hurt so many people. THATS WHY I SAY GRIEF SUCKS AND ITS HARD
@@BePatientSeeLoveYou okay, there?
I like how Batman goes against killing, but is able to work outside the law.
Nah screw that I like how he let Harley of all people on his team regardless whether she realized she's wrong. Imagine your former friend working with the accomplice of your op who participated in your tragedy
Implicitly Pretentious goes into this in detail- it's not Batman's fault for having let the Joker live, but it is his fault for not being there when Superman was grieving and needed the man he admired most to at least understand why he was doing what he was doing.
Superman: Lois is pregnant! This is the best day of my life!
Joker: Imma end this man's happiness and start a great story.
Superman: now you love rock n roll
Batman: *NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!*
It's not just Batman it is also Wonder Woman's fault
Honestly, if Superman kept away from the submarine after he lifted it, Lois would've been saved because Batman knows Joker's unpredictability.
Once you justify one death by your own hands, it's easier to justify another, and it continues to get easier with every murder until you become the very thing you swore you would never become.
To a point, I would say that Batman is partialy responsible for Superman's demise in the Injustice comic. At the very end of the Injustice 2 comic run, we see him apologize for not being there for Clark when he needed him most, but the damage had been done.
That apology (after all they went through) at least helped them work together during Injustice 2. So, it mended some bridges for them. Still, Superman was too far gone by that point. Ironically what Clark said about Harley was also referring to himself "she's too far gone...when she relapses..." And he wonders why Batman was so vehement that they (the Superheroes) never kill. The hypocrisy.
Harley helped Joker cause she was in love with him and it blinded her and she regrets it if she only wasnt so blinded by it she would have told the joker to stop.@@Cabolt44
I say Batman still is Superman's best friend as before he broke through the wall, Batman told Joker that Superman would greif, but he would still be the same man he always has been. But when Superman thrusted his hand through The Joker's chest, Batman is shocked, horrified, and saddened that The Clown Prince of Crime had been right.
When you said that you think people think that all the people Joker killed is on Batman's hands; Batman himself believes this in The Dark Knight Returns comics. He even kept count on the number of people the Joker killed prior to the events of that graphic novel.
Yes there has been realities where Batman killed The Joker. A more infamous example is in the Dark Multiverse on Earth -22 (Negative 22) where Batman killed The Joker and he became The Batman Who Laughs. A Batman who retained his calculated mind and discipline combined with The Joker's insanity, evil, and philosophy. I'd read that comic if you're interested.
I don’t think Bruce did anything objectively wrong, but he definitely could’ve been a better friend and supported Clark through that tough time. Batman even apologizes for not being there when Clark needed him in the prequel comics to Injustice 2. After all, it’s mentioned that in the injustice universe, before everything went wrong, Superman idolized Batman. In Jonathan Kent’s own words “Clark believes Batman can walk on water” if anyone could’ve pulled Clark back from the brink of madness, he would’ve been Batman if he had handled the situation better and I think Bruce recognizes that and will forever blame himself for what happened.
Although I do have to say, even if Bruce did play a part in the fall of Superman, Batman is not responsible for how Superman shows to handle the situation. And Batman was just one of many people who who contributed to the fall of Superman. Even most civilians were in favor of Superman’s lethal methods during the first year or two of his rule. it was only one he critically, injured black Canary, a known superhero, live TV that people started to question his methods, and then completely lost faith when he murdered Lex Luthor and began massacring Gotham and Metropolis
I am a big fan of Batman, he is possibly my favorite superhero, but that means accepting him with his strengths and weaknesses, as well as his shortcomings, and, being a big fan of Injustice myself, I fully agree with your conclusion. Batman always errs on the side of being more rational than emotional, and in this specific case that prevented him from offering Clark what he really needed, making him focus on the potential threat instead of the human pain. That said, I still love Batman and one of the things I like the most about Injustice is the powerful force that evokes the drama of two brothers who are forced to become enemies, much more powerful than a typical hero and villain relationship
Imagine if Batman and Superman quoted the same lines from Captain America civil war.
“I won’t kill you Clark. You we’re my friend.” - Batman
“So we’re you.” - Superman
Also, if we were also talking about people who should have helped Superman through his grief, Superboy could have helped Superman, but he was as cold as Batman
In defense of him he is basically a blind kid. Someone who sees Superman as the perfect hero, so now his idol just killed you can kinda see why he feels the way he does
@@ComicCasualVideos is he a kid?
u do know Superboy actually is like a younger brother to superman so idont think hes a blind kid.@@ComicCasualVideos
Of course Batman has blame on him. His singular focus made it so he couldn't empathise with Superman (in that moment), but it's clear he did. And by the time Batman did empathise (show it to people), he (Supes) was already well corrupted by Diana and the villains he surrounded himself with.
To a lesser extent, even Superboy (Supes genetic clone) couldn't understand outright murdering someone. And if a near Clone of Supes couldn't understand it, then no one really could.
I'm not sure if Batman being a friend would've changed anything. It could've just ended up like the "Justice Lords" situation from Justice League Animated series, where Batman went along with it, but realised much later how immoral and unethical such a way really was.
I think that was the feeling. Both Batman and Superboy believed the person they admired and trusted was “gone”. Hell he wanted to stop him didnt he? And uhm that didn’t end well for him. Or Tim. 😢
superboy is like a younger brother to clark kent. so if both his brother and best friend couldnt stop him. Wonder Woman was already corrupting Superman. Batman is different since Batman is mainly away from the JL but SUperman and WW arent.@@DarkEclipse23
batman is not the you know the most mentally stable hero thats why he never kills to not ..cause if he did he thinks he would never be able to stop killing and the person he looked upto killed it where it messed him up as well...heck he had blind faith in superman that even after all that superman would never kill cause that was superman stands for which shattered when sups killed him which made batman way warry of a depressed superman..and further fuel like grayson dying and other incidents made it worse ...batman was willing to use the gods to partially rule over the earth if it meant stopping superman's tyranny
Wonder Woman basically enabled Superman’s anger and rage. she basically manipulated Clark into being a tyrant after he lost Lois and his unborn child to the Joker.
This quote from Wonder Woman says it all:
“ To pacify man's world, Kal needed steel, not compassion."
This quote shows that Wonder Woman wanted Clark to be a strong man who was willing to kill anyone to protect the world knowing full well that Clark was still mourning the lost of his wife and unborn child.
Batman, Joker, Wonder Woman, and mainly Gotham’s Justice system played a role in Superman’s downfall from grace but this whole topic is interesting and fascinating to talk about you’re not only talking about the concept of morality but your also talking about how one bad day can make anyone snap even if that person is the most hopeful and powerful person in the world.
i agree that heroes should not be killing the ones that should is the justice system. Like Harley can be redeemed should be lived but ones like Joker shouldnt
@@momokosakurada605 That is true.
I understand that heroes shouldn't kill, but they must realize or understand that what if you have a nemesis or fight someone who lives only to cause death, destruction, and chaos just because they want to. Then how long will that person live until you or the justice system say or realize enough is enough?
People like Harley Quinn are criminals, but if they show remorse and feel guilt after everything they have done, there is a slight chance that they can be redeemed. People like the Joker who only want to see the world burn or cause so much death and destruction just for the sheer thrill of it do not deserve to have multiple chances to reform. Batman could have killed the Joker at ANY time if he wanted, but he believes that anyone, no matter HOW evil they are, can be redeemed. That might be admirable, but it is also foolish and naive.
yes but u must see that batman is a hero also so thats why if he was a judge a normal person enforcing the law as a judge the outcome could be different like Bane and Joker sure deserve to die by the hands of the law of gotham not by batman or heroes hands@@isaiahjenkins3821. The thing was that Harley even admitted that if she wasnt in love with Joker she would still be sane and also maybe would not have become a villain or a hero just a normal citizen of gotham. Harley does eventually try to make up for the bad things she did by doing good. She also admits that she could have done better if she wasnt blinded by her love for joker
My question is if the world/legal system would even find Supes guilty….
Video idea: could blackfire (starfire’s evil sister) survive Injustice? She is basically starfire, but with stronger powers and more battle experience. Would she join the regime? Sinestro did join the regime and so did solomon grundy
Bruce claims clark to be a murderer and a sinner, yet readily includes harley Quinn, the unapologetic psychopath who had a hand in this, without question, in his resistance team.
Here's how Batman responsible for Superman become evil in Injustice: he keep locking Joker in Arkham Asylum where law enforcement is too corrupt to even execute Joker himself
other place are the same. The problem is thats how the law works in the world of dc
I would say, maybe complicit as he could’ve also worked to help him out but at the end of the day, it’s on Superman to make those choices.
This is very well put together video! Well done!
Thank you very much! I hope you stick around for my future content!
@@ComicCasualVideos Video idea: could blackfire (starfire’s evil sister) survive Injustice? She is basically starfire, but with stronger powers and more battle experience. Would she join the regime? Sinestro did join the regime and so did solomon grundy and killer frost
Had Bruce stayed by Clark's side, he could've been the angel on his shoulder keeping Diana from being manipulative and making sure neither she or Clark go too far.
There is something similar in an alternative DCEU by thecomixkidd2099
If joker could have seen the future based on what superman would become, he'd have died laughing before Clark ever reached the station
After Superman said that Batman is supposed to be his friend. Batman replied , " Which is why I have to stop you, which means they are friends , and that is why Bruce is trying to stop Clark.
Id say hes partley at fault but after the fact what is he suppose to say to a grieving superman when its all said and done you know, hell they could have had flash run back in time to prevent this, but that wouldnt make this plot story possible.
Batmans brutality is also to bring into question yes he doesnt want to kill but his rule never said he couldnt permanently paralyze some of his rogues, he could have lobotimized joker and taken him out of commission he could even severe his arms/legs and still leave him crippled but he just isnt commited to make sure joker stays down.
So yes that makes batman to blame to a degree
I do think Superman was more than justified in his actions, it was how he went too far afterwards that made him a villain
I remember a alternate part of a movie or video? Where after what happened between joker and superman as batman just kills the joker and turns himself in and superman meets Bruce in prison as he breaks though the wall to hug Bruce to thank him
Happened in the comics
The way I interpret the Injustice series is this
When the justice system does not do its sole duty of keeping society safe from evil men, then the public will take the law into their own hands and that ultimately leads to more suffering.
Video Suggestion: Could Albert Wesker(Resident Evil Game Series) survive Arkham City?
(I know Arkham Asylum would be way easier than City, so might as well just do that instead)
In my opinion, Batman was responsible from this mess, because he was constantly antagonizing and critizing Superman, since the death of Joker.
And as result of this, Superman grown tired to be listening Batman, leading to that the Man of Steel cannot be guided by his former friend, causing that this leaves Superman more vulnerable to negatives influences, like Wonder Woman, who took advantage from the fragile psyche and shaken ideas of Superman, to twist him and turn the Man of Steel in a dictator, especially with Batman out of equation.
I just was saying that if Batman would showed more compassion for the grief of Superman, for lost his wife, unborn son and city, than be only concerned by the death of a genocide psychopath, maybe Batman would be still close to Superman, allowing him to serves as moral support for the Man of Steel, and even help him to keep his moral code largely intact.
But to simply shunned Superman for killed the Joker, and be constantly condemning him, Batman ended causing a schism between them, leading to that Superman fell in the clutches of evil people like Wonder Woman, leading him to creates the Regime, partially because Batman.
I still don't get why everyone are obsessed with Batman being the responsable for the Superman 's downfall ? Superman made the decisions by himself, Batman even tried reasoning with him but Superman refused to listen if there is a hero who is responsable for Superman become evil , that is Wonder Woman
While I don’t think it’s Batman fault per se that the Joker is alive one does have to consider this Joker was so intelligent that he could mix kryptonite with scarecrow fear toxin, do surgery on a pregnant woman heart keep her alive and connect her heart beat to a nuclear weapon. Maybe the reason he gets out of prison is he is a genius and Batman should be watching him more closely at least and perhaps breaking every bone in his body at most to ensure other’s safety. And given his vigilante and that being illegal he shouldn’t have an issue with that.
As for Superman Batman is directly responsible for his downfall. He made Superman his enemy as soon as he got rid of the Joker. Even if that was wrong and Superman should face trial (which he probably gets off given the Joker crime) at that moment Batman needed to diffuse the situation and instead he made it worse.
Batman surely has his share of the blame.
Joker just exploded a city and made Superman kill his own wife and son, and Batman dares to judge superman for killing Joker after all that? To defend Joker?
If i was superman i would probably break Batman right there on the spot, at least break a few bones.
One thing is refusing to kill, that i can understand, but after something like this someone defending that lowlife? Someone who i considered a friend?
The fact Superman didnt do worse is impressive
he did beat batman and break his back and was beaten the shit up for it by alfred. But i dont think SUperman should kill. Hes a hero if he kills whats stopping him from killing all the criminals in the world where there are some that can be saved like harley who was blindly in love with joker and others like captain cold. Not every criminal deserve to die. In the first place the DC World law is the main problem. The Law should ahve allowed the Joker to be killed. If joker was dead Harley would have been redeemable.
i like to point that Superman killing the joker is justified because Superman is not some normal human being kal is powerful when you’re powerful it’s double edged sword for self control but after killing the joker that all on kal for not controlling himself
If you actually take a look at it Injustice Superman got fucked really hard. He has to live with the fact he was intoxicated by joker and Harley and how he put his pregnant wife into space and killing her which set the nuke in metropolis to go off.
Then you’ve got Batman who wasn’t much of a good friend to Supes. He expected superman to get over the devastating loss and also egged him on early in the story.
Wonder Woman was a bad vice and influence on Kal as every time Superman rationalised she manipulated him further. Making him more tyrannical over the years.
Nevertheless even as a tyrant he still cared about mankind in a twisted way and protected it before the games events. It’s actually fucked how Injustice Harley the woman who is partially responsible for everything happening gets a redemption arc and injustice superman doesn’t.
She did stop the main timeline from having another evil clark kent. She didnt get away free. Even Superboy the son of superman told her if she wants his forgiveness than she has to save everyone that can be saved to make up for the mistakes she made when she was blinded by her love for joker
Id say Batman is responsible for Joker due to their multiple cat and mouse games and everytime someone or multiple people get killed.
Gotham is corrupt AF so just as responsible.
But Wonder woman on the other hand was the gasoline to superman's fire.
Not to mention he let Harley ( who would be a terrorist) on her team. I believe in redemption to a certain degree but Bats is kinda messed for having her on his team.
Very true, how he easily forgave her for what she did.Imagine how batman would react if joe chill had a female friend who helped kill the wings and the and superman started working with her
She did stop the main universe from haaving another evil superman and also the son of superman told her if she wants to have his forgiveness she should save everyone she can to make up for the time she was blinded by joker
If this is what you think of injustices Batman, I’d love to hear your thoughts on kingdom come Batman
the problem with people blaming injustice batman for sups going evil is them not understanding bats entirely as well... yeah bats could've killed joker but batman's mind is his worst problem bro is too traumatized that he believes that if he kills he would never stop...so he never kills... he is kinda insane in a way..and when he saw the person he knew who would never kill not cause of the fear of going to far but cause he was just that good..he became cautios...heck if batman killed joker willingly he would automatically let himself in..if he is sane enough
5:23 - well I mean he did but it was in a dream sequence where Superman managed to save Lois
That was a cool detail
Yes they are friends
I can't lie Batman should have killed Joker for Superman before joker killed Lois lane
Superman looked for comfort when he lost everything and the one man who would be able to comfort him that being batman is nowhere to be seen and all batman could think about is how superman murdered a man, you know, a man who is a maniac who has just committed genocide and murdered elders, men, women and children and unborn children and blew up a city with a shockin nuke but whatever batman and then superman turns to wonder woman who is like his other best friend since wonder woman, batman and superman are the Trinity of DC and Wonder woman just manipulates superman because she wants to get into his pants and was happy after lois died, superman isnt ultimately responsible in my opinion, I think batman and wonder woman and the gotham law also share the blame, if batman shouldn't kill the joker then the Gotham city police should have killed him because in the real world joker would have been executed and the joker has committed way too many crimes to give him a second chance and batman and GCPD putting him back in the same prison that they KNOW joker will break out of again to commit more crimes is just irresponsible and down right foolish and for that I do think that batman and the GCPD share some of the blame, if not Batman then someone should have been killed the joker, Jason todd for instance is one of the few characters in the dc universe who can make a very good argument against batmans no kill rule because joker killed jason and if jason was given the opportunity to kill joker then I think he would have been killed the joker, the injustice story and Jason todds story could have easily been avoided if someone killed the joker and if Characters like Batman and wonder woman didnt do stupid things
Superman has many other friends and family, Batman is not his only friend, and remember Batman was also grieving because Lois was his friend. You also have to remember Superman did this on his own accord he isn’t devoid of responsibility grieve isn’t a get out of jail free card. Superman killing the joker isn’t what made Batman turn against him, it’s what he did after. You shouldn’t put unnecessary blame on Batman for OTHER people’s actions.
This is why I agree with jason todd
Superman basically ruled the world with an iron fist and every single person on earth hates him@@Kainewall. All the innocent people, Criminals, Heroes with a good heart all hates him or dislikes him.
@@momokosakurada605 yea
literally the people who likes him are like damian and cyborg and wonder woman. Aquaman and many others just hate him.@@Kainewall. This game shows the reason why Bats fear superheroes and he isnt wrong.
Also as to all who played a role in Supermans undoing it goes in this order. Joker, Harley Quinn, Wonder woman, the justice system and lastly batman. Why you may ask?
Joker-He is Darksied on a human level. He has lost any sense of sanity or chance of redemption. Like a rabid dog he will attack and destroy all in its path. He is literally the definition of chaos. Therefore he should've been given the chair so many times over its not funny.
Harley-That crazy woman was complicit with Joker and has committed atrocities just as bad if not even worse. She was dick whipped ad to make matters worse fully aware of her actions and she often gets away scot free. Screw that blonde b*tch needs to face retribution herself.
Wonder woman-We all know she wanted super man and she couldn't have picked a scummier time to do it..she couldn't have considered trying to relate to super man, ease his broken heart towards both him and her, lone kids, forsaken from their home worlds and both trying bring peace and hope seeing that the system failed them and they had to resort to putting villains to the sword as the answer and it all piques there? A wave of emotions and newly found attraction for them both and seeking solice in another? Nah I'm gaslight and make him my ultimate weapon and once we rule the world I'll have his kids and we'll be the ultimate power couple instead.
Justice system-Realisitcly we all know after the 1st few murders the penalty would've been dropped on Joker in a instant. So I'm not even gonna dive in deep on this. If they really wanted Joker locked away he would've been dropped in the prison that Amanda waller runs. But nope. Arkham, arkham, arkham. Every God damn time.
Batman-He literally could've broken Joker from the neck down. Put him in a cell especially meant to keep him from leaving, he'll even seek a cure for his insanity and help integrate him to a normal life. This all could be done batman has the skills and means to do it. Hell look at the Harley Quinn show. The same vat of chemicals that ruined him turned him back to normal and he became a family man. Batman could've done what we all wanted and gained true justice for Todd's death. But nope. He let himself be talked out of it.
Bonus one, Super man-Now you're all wondering how? It all comes full circle. Back around when Joker killed Todd guess who talked Batman out of it? Ding ding ding. You guessed it, boy scout Clark. So you mean to yell me you're willing to drop brainiac, doomsday, Darkseid but not the madman who killer a child? A Young precious life taken too soon from the world and also your best friend? It's only a matter of time before it comes back to bite you right? After all no good deed goes unpunished.
blame the damn justice system. Batman doesnt want to be above the law . Heroes shouldnt kill because they are seen as hope and as a symbol. Can u imagine living in a world where superheroes kill every criminal. you a innocent person who was force to steal to make a living imagine u have to die for it. thats so screwed up. Batman is right. Harley can be redeemable the problem is her love blinded her. Once she was off the Joker she did good. Like the Son of Superman say she should live by making up for all those she killed. She isnt like the joker who has no moral compass.
Superman was grieving and mentally unstable Batman was a piece of work to a grieving man and wonder woman saw Lois was out of the picture and she could use his grief to make him into the man she wanted for herself
In a way, yeah. Superman as far off the deep end as he’s gone still has a point. Joker deserved to die years ago, there’s no redeeming that guy. Even in stories where the Joker is redeemed it rarely if ever lasts all that long. If the joker had been killed years ago, the whole injustice story would never have happened. And I’m not saying Batman should be a killer either, just that if there’s any one of his rogues gallery that he really should make an exception for, it’s the Joker. This guy is the closest thing to being evil incarnate while still being a regular human being. Batman doesn’t kill because he believes that all of his villains can be redeemed and he’s been proven right more than once. But with the joker, there’s no helping him, there’s no redeeming him. He’s always just gonna keep breakingout of Arkham and do continuously more and more fucked up things. Not only that but this Batman takes the no killing rule too seriously. Yeah, Superman killed, he crossed a line. But if Superman was taken to court over it, he would’ve surely gotten the temporary insanity plea. Killing the joker was a spur of the moment decision out of grief and anger. While yes, I fully agree that taking precautions to take out a guy with the power of Superman who’s now started killing, that should’ve been on the back burner. Helping and comforting his broken and grieving friend should’ve come first. Batman wasn’t responsible for Superman’s fall from grace but he certainly sped that fall up and made it worse IMO.
Bats grew up in a world that's speeding to the gutter, with himself and a few others being the only ones trying to halt that advance. He knew the stakes he had to bear, and had to go tough because it's a "dying light" struggle. He's not just fighting the criminals, he's trying to fight the general hopelessness of Gotham. Supes losing Lois clicked with Batsy, as it proved him right that being so vulnerable as to fall in love, have a wife and expect a son is too bad a thing to do, especially in a job like being a hero where it's part and parcel to live under the reality that a lot of people want them dead, ruined or both. In a way, he was right to judge Supes as undeserving of a bit of audience to his grievance. Yes, Supes is a big boy scout, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he's at the forefront of the Earth's heroes. Yeah, Supes lost something dear to him, but in the grand scheme of things, only he would really care about that. His villains will mock him for it, Wonder Woman is in a good mood because of it, the public will lose trust in him since nothing stops him from capping anyone else since he capped Lois. Injustice is about Superman being forced into Batman's world. The Regime part is Supes trying to resist being forced into the nightmare.
What an intriguing viewpoint on Injustice.
Agreed.
Batman knows what happens if u start killing theres no end in killing. SUperman became the most feared person in the world
If you're going off of the influence of others, Wonder Women was more responsible for Supermans downfall than Batman.
Lore of Was Batman Responsible For Injustice Superman's Downfall? Momentum 100
If it was earth 2 Bruce this shit wouldn’t have happened
Killing joker is not batman's place. If this were not a popular comic book character, joker would have died long ago in the real world.
Here is my 2 cents. At the end of the Injustice timeline what does Batman finally do? Kill the Joker, but consider this. You think any cop wanted to put cuffs on him. I bet the citizens of Gotham threw a parade after Joker was killed. Hell they'd even deem batman as even more of a hero. But in the end look who was right? Jason Todd.
To me that's what this timeliness further proved. Jason Todd to be the right one. For if batman just axed Joker, Metropolis would've been saved. Lois, John Kent the whole 5 years of endless suffering and death from both parties, Diana's gas lighting and fiending for some superd*ck. All of that could've been avoided. And at the end it showed that batman didn't break after killing the Joker. But a crime is a crime and so he must serve his sentence.
And look, still sane, not riddled with guilt, nothing of that sorts that Bruce said that he'd lose it and wouldn't be able to stop. That is a lie. He was willing to take put Darkseid and remain sane so he really expects us that Joker would be any different? This proves that batman is full of and can be the hero for others. But not for his sidekicks. No wonder he gets left alone in the end because the Darknight isn't a man. It really is a crusader that fights a battle against insanity, suffering and philosophy.
He kill JOker lets say and now the innocent fear him. Whats stopping him from killing others who doesnt deserve it. Jason is also wrong here. THe Law should kill Joker not batman or Jason.
Everyone
Could The Arkham Knight survive Injustice?
Wonder Woman was the reason for supermans downfall
So according to batman, it's not okay for good guys to kill even one bad guy but it's okay for bad guys to kill millions of innocents ? I'll be honest, i like batman but i can't be on his side in this one, he was wrong, if he had killed the joker himself, superman never would have lost control, superman was overwhelmed with pain and was acting out of emotions which was very understandable, the whole injustice thing was batman's fault because he's never willing to do what's necessary
Title: Was Batman Responsible For Injustice Superman’s Downfall?
COMMENT ✍️:
Welcome to the channel, Comic Casual! 🎉 In this brand new Injustice rant, we’re diving deep into the intriguing question: “Was Batman Responsible For Injustice Superman’s Downfall?” Buckle up, because we’re about to explore the tangled web of morality, friendship, and tragedy that defines the Injustice universe.
First off, let’s set the stage. The Injustice franchise, with its alternate DC Universe, presents a world gone awry. It’s a place where familiar heroes and villains take unexpected paths, and the consequences are dire. And at the heart of it all is the tragic fall of Superman, the Man of Steel himself.
So, why did Superman’s shining armor tarnish? Why did the beacon of hope become a symbol of fear and tyranny? Enter Batman, the Dark Knight, the brooding detective with a utility belt full of secrets. But was he truly responsible for Superman’s descent into darkness? Let’s break it down:
1. The Day Metropolis Died:
• The pivotal moment that shattered Superman’s world occurred when the Joker and Harley Quinn paid a fateful visit to Metropolis. Joker, tired of losing to Batman, decided to make Superman’s life miserable instead.
• In a cruel twist, Joker tricked Superman into believing he was fighting the monstrous Doomsday. But the truth was far worse: Superman unwittingly killed his own wife, Lois Lane, and their unborn child.
• The resulting grief and rage pushed Superman over the edge. He did the unthinkable-killing the Joker, an act that Batman himself had never been able to carry out. The city of Metropolis was annihilated, and Superman lost everything.
2. The (Final) Killing Joke:
• Injustice serves as a spiritual sequel to the iconic graphic novel, Batman: The Killing Joke. In that story, the Joker targeted Commissioner Gordon to prove that anyone could be driven mad with the right push.
• While the Joker failed in The Killing Joke, Injustice takes it a step further. If the Clown Prince of Crime could drive someone as virtuous as Superman to commit murder, what hope did humanity have?
• Batman, ever the skeptic, saw the danger. He questioned whether Superman and other former Justice League members could truly instill safety and peace. His doubts fueled the rift between them.
3. Wonder Woman’s Role:
• While Batman was part of the problem, Wonder Woman played a significant role in Superman’s moral downfall.
• Wonder Woman’s unwavering loyalty to Superman’s Regime and her willingness to cross ethical lines further pushed Kal-El toward authoritarianism.
• Her warrior mentality clashed with Batman’s more cautious approach, exacerbating the conflict.
In conclusion, Batman wasn’t solely responsible for Superman’s fall. The Joker’s twisted game, Wonder Woman’s unwavering support, and Superman’s own inner demons all contributed. But Batman’s skepticism and refusal to blindly follow Superman’s lead were crucial factors.
So, Comic Casual, what do you think? Is Batman the catalyst for Superman’s tragic transformation, or is there more to the story? Let’s keep the discussion going! 🦇🔥
I HATE "injustice" so much...the whole story just...made me dislike dc comics in general
No Batman wasn’t responsible but admittedly him and characters like Superboy and the Titans do deserve to be called out a little. For Batman he could have at the bare minimum put Joker in a more secure Asylum or even a much more secure prison or maybe even a prison cell that the Justice League own (Im pretty sure they have prisons in some continuities) in fact it seemed like he cared more about the Joker dying because in a prequel comic he was more focused on that when he spoke to a still grieving Superman, as for Superboy well he was kind of acting like a genuine prick, he decides to try and TRAP Superman in the Phantom Zone just because he killed the Joker which to be honest was one of the few deaths that was genuinely Justified and as for the Titans, they could have probably attempted to talk Superboy out of it. Like seriously if someone else killed the Joker would Superboy try and put them in the phantom zone too? Cause if you ask me Superboy is the one Injustice character I do not feel bad for. He could have handled that situation better and for that he got a broken sternum.
That's a left field comment right there.
Now, Batman is partially to blame for Supes downfall, but not for imprisoning Joker as he did. Arkham Asylum (in many continuities) becomes a super max prison, with the only real hope for breaking in and out being super smart, super resourceful, or just plain super powered.
What is to blame is the Justice System and how it handles monsters like the Joker. It's a common occurrence in almost every continuity, that the Joker and others are let off VERY lightly by the system. None of the courts seem to be able to summarily execute him (or at the very least make sure he can never return to society).
As for Superboy... he's absolutely correct. He's someone who has the same genetic material as Clark. Someone who looks up to him as the symbol of Hope. And to see someone like that execute another in cold blood (even if that someone was a monster) is the biggest slippery slope one could be on. Why? Because he's too powerful. And any power left unchecked should be considered dangerous.
Injustice is 100% Batman‘s fault. if he had simply killed the joker none of this would’ve ever happened.🤬
3 words no just no I blame the justice system of Gotham not Batman Jesus what is wrong with you people I defending Batman because he not the one who should be blame it Gotham not him and also Batman is a vigilante and also do you know that vigilantism is a crime you’re know and also say Batman have the rights no he not he not a criminal and also I agree with him but there some flaws of Batman no kill code as well and also Wonder Woman the true villian of the series aka injustice series and also Batman is second or third in my opinion
People seem to forget that Batmans code isn't just "I never kill because killing is bad" I just left a comment on the red hood video similar to this but Batmans point is everyone deserves a chance to change even if they're monsters. In injustice this is moreso pushed when Batman watches one of the MOST noble people he knows spit in the face of giving people a chance to be better. Superman himself even has a code like this, look at superman vs the elite. He shows what it would look like if he decided to "take the easy way". No Batman didn't have the best reaction at the moment but for all his shark repellant and super human feats Batman makes mistakes and doesn't always have the best idea of how to handle a situation especially when in shock or distress (he'sridiculously smart but not all knowing or perfect). Injustice's movie shows this the best, look at how he reacted to Dick's (nightwing's) death; he was devastated. Even when under mind control (outside of the shitty game that's not to be named) you see batmans code showing. He knows he can't bring crime to a zero but he's trying his best to create a world where another kid doesn't have to go through what he went through in the best we he can think of. You can make the argument that prison obviously isn't working on his villains but that's neglecting that corruption in Gotham goes deeper than a few dirty cops its in the rich in the court of owls and at the lowest level like a guard being bribed to unlock a cell or sabotage security to keep arkham and other facilities easy to escape and again (from my red hood comment) without these villains constantly getting out you don't have a story. People always give Batman crap for not keeping is villains under control then neglect that Lex not only continously escapes, becomes president, makes earth endangering devices constantly, and not only made a kryptonite lightsaber but had what he needed to cure cancer (the mind, money, and the facilities) TO CURE CANCER but didn't do it because it wouldn't have gotten him closer to proving to the world he's better than superman in his mind and that sure came back to bite him in the ass in the shows. You said in the video yourself that Superman broke being exposed to the type of criminals Batman fights on the daily and it stands to reason than watching Superman (someone batman deeply trusts and respects) step right on the code they both fight to uphold broke him in a bad way especially right in the moment. People's opinions on these characters are typically so one note because they miss the bigger picture or they'd rather argue on the internet over who would win hypothetical fights instead of just enjoying the media for what it is and sharing it with others. These characters are supposed to tell a story, be entertaining, and be enjoyed by everyone so do what you can to spread your love of a character with someone else, not tear down people for having different opinions or not necessarily understanding why you see something a certain way. Everyone knows Batman is ridiculous as a concept especially with some of the shit he does in the comics and movies but for all the things he gets wrong, he's far from responsible for Superman's fall in Injustice.
We can always argue about Batman moral and actions especially against Joker. Did Batman responsible for Superman downfall? Maybe but still not that much as Wonder Woman did. He did try his best just to stop and make a point toward Superman. But it doesn't matter since Superman's grief is still too much for him eventhough both somehow still find the way to sit down and talk.
16:56 Batman is not at all in fault for Superman being this way. The only way you can blame Batman is by saying he should have kept Joker in Gotham full lockdown. Then I understand and agree, but other than that, Superman made his own decisions, and Batman is in the right now. I am going to finish this topic and be crystal clear. Batman is 100 percent in the right, and Superman was in the wrong letting kill Joker was good enough but trying to rule over everyone is too much making him a criminal even killing friends adds that point and well Lex luthor I guess adds too.
I particularly say he's responsible for Joker's antics they always do this cat and mouse game. He and Gotham indirectly kills people. Bats shouldve done more to not only keep joker on a tighter leash but be sure he and other villains don't escape or try to make Gotham better.
@Achieme Good point but killing is still bad.
Killing villains is such a taboo for superheroes, especially Batman cus it'd be so incredibly HUMAN and easy to abuse that power. Just look at how easy it is to abuse power in our justice system just cus we don't like someone
It isn't sort-of his fault until AFTER Superman murders the Joker. Side note: Killing the villain should ALWAYS be a last resort. Heroes including Superman & Batman (especially Kal)have a fundamental belief that there is always another way.
I fully support the no kill rule, but I also support the Joker JUSTLY getting the death penalty PROPERLY through the justice system, as flawed as it may be. I also support superheroes, ESPECIALLY DC's trinity having mercy on their enemies. Even the irredeemable ones. Because a superhero is supposed to have the fundamental belief that anyone can change no matter how bad they are, they just have to want to change or be reasonably convinced otherwise. Superman believes in the fundamental goodness of humanity no matter how much the bad side tries to convince him otherwise, Wonder Woman is the embodiment of peace and compassion, especially being a warrior trained to kill when necessary, and Batman, as adamant as he is about stopping the bad guys, he still wants to help them change, even the Joker, as irredeemable as he is. Bruce may have the littlest hope, out of all his villains, for the Joker changing, especially considering everything he's done, but there is STILL A LITTLE BIT HOPE, no matter how small that his archnemesis, as evil as he is, can change. Now, we as the readers/fans know that the Joker knows he's evil and doesn't plan on changing, but the heroes, especially the trinity are supposed to hold out hope for the better, no matter what.
Superman downfall happened not bc of Batman but Superman own choices and his inability to deal with loss and grief. In a crossover with Master of Universe, Clark even gets the chance to see other worlds where Lois survives, only to go back at being crazy once finds out that Lois would have died soon or later by any other that he can't control. Even if Bruce had killed the Joker in the past, Clark would still lose Lois and lash out on others. Even if Batman was a less harsh on him, Clark would still become villain, bc it's his refusal to accept his flaws that results in people turning against him like Batman, Lex and Kara.
When you have, what is essentially the power of a god on earth, the line between righteous and self-righteous, becomes pretty much thinner than a human hair. Gone was the big blue boy scout, in its place a rage-oholic that bordered on old testament levels of too far. Yes, the system failed superman, but that still doesn't justify what he did to and after the joker. NOTHING DOES!
NO, it was Superman's deeds and actions that led to his own downfall.
Batman doesn't kill because for him is a slippery slope: if killing the bad guys is a good thing, then killing them before they do something is also good, as well as killing their associates, and anybody helping them, and anybody critising me for doing it, etc.
I think many people completely misses the overall point of the Injustice Saga: killing Joker was the first step of many, because "killing is good for society" premise was established so everything else began to follow.
Did Bruce have a part to play? Yes. Was this situation his fault? No. Killing the Joker shouldn’t be on him. If the justice system was better this situation wouldn’t have happened. It’s more fair to say that Diana is at more fault than Bruce is in Clark’s downfall.
Just like in flash(2023) batman should have just been a friend, could have done more.
Also you’re forgetting. Batman is paranoid like. 24/7. Clark was the one predictable person he could believe in, but that changed when Clark became unpredictable all of a sudden. I mean that’s bad for mr. Paranoia 😂
I think the issue was that Superman went beyond his expectations in a terrible way. He believed in Superman would be able to control himself and not succumb. I think when Superman broke Joker. He also broke Batman’s faith in him.
Yeah he could have said. It’s okay. But. I think it was beyond right after he ran through Joker.
If someone else held Superman down. If Superman didn’t kill the Joker. It wouldn’t have happened. :/ idk. It’s a weird fickle. Because then Superman would just be haunted from losing control and killing someone and that wouldn’t be any better.
It’s like dlc Jason Todd says that he agrees with both of them but they’re both also stupid.
Jason todd is telling the truth
No it's a combination of injustice Joker and injustice Wonder Woman, she was the one who kept egging Clark on and stoking his rage after he killed the Joker