A New Age Begins: The First Battle Report of the new Edition of Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- 00:00 Intro
03:05 Steven's List- The Last Alliance
06:25 Andrew's List- Barad Dur
08:21 The Game
37:40 Post Game Analysis
In this tale of valor, unity, and the final stand against the shadow, we bring to life The Battle of the Last Alliance in this epic clash on the tabletop battlefield of the Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game. Also, we make a lot of dumb jokes and whirl-of-blades noises.
Witness Elendil, High King of Gondor, and Gil-galad, the last High King of the Elves, leading their noble armies to the very slopes of Mount Doom. With the fate of Middle-earth hanging by a thread, they face the might of Sauron, the Dark Lord himself, and his endless hordes of orcs and trolls. The stakes? No less than the dawn of a new age. Or at least a new edition.
Will the courage of Men and the wisdom of the Elves prevail, or shall the Dark Lord's malice smother the light forever? This game heralds a new chapter in Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game history, with strategies forged in fire and legends immortalized in dice rolls.
Great battle report! I was crying inside when i saw Sauron behind the orc lines.
Awesome seeing the gil galad spear in action, it gives so much extra tactical manuverability against Sauron's F9!
Orcs rushing in ahead of Sauron RIP (in this matchup). Sauron could be moving forward and picking away at the Archers/GG with chill soul while the orcs stay back behind terrain to minimize damage taken from the shooting. Sauron effectively "outshoots" the entire LA army by himself, so you can avoid the whirling blades and shooting causing major problems if you play the game a bit slower to get more value out of him early on and force the LA player to push forward while the orcs hide for the first few turns.
This is a good thought for strategy and in basically any other situation with a shooting heavy list, hiding the orcs and letting the arrows bounce off Sauron is the way to go. Definitely want him ahead to at least soak some hits on in the ways.
However in this matchup specifically, Gil-Galad and Elendil (and other characters like Earnur and Glorfindel elsewhere) actually can walk out and meet Sauron and fight him on equal footing as their force supports and bolsters their consistency with a banner and then you just have Sauron isolated, out diced, out Mighted and only comparable Fight value. Thats a dangerous prospect even for the dark lord.
Its genuinely just a very difficult matchup where numbers are uncharacteristically in the elite infantry lists favour and the big stat check heroes can actually go toe to toe.
@@DesmondDentresti The reason it works here is that TLA is a full infantry list that can't even march with GG + Elendil; they have no realistic way to catch Sauron, and even if another model does manage to engage him in combat, he can barge off of it to create space and escape. TLA doesn't have the speed to trap up Sauron and engage with the heroes if he's playing at his 12" spell range, and if it is trying to do that, then it's forced to push forward to engage him as he pulls back and chips away at GG and/or shooting, which still keeps pressure off of the orcs so the army can ultimately engage at closer to full strength.
The goal is to engage with as little shooting damage taken as possible and maximum damage to the enemy army; drain the heroes of resources and/or kill them and chip away at key units with Sauron's magic before combat even starts.
The problem is that it doesn't make for a particularly interesting or fun game.
This sort of thing is basically the reason that Sauron is 400 points and his chill soul range was reduced from 18" to 12". He can win some games by simply avoiding/delaying fighting until he's dealt with key threats with magic if the opponent doesn't have the speed to force the issue.
@@Matt-ln7lb All true.
That may have been the best strategy, but killing half an elf per turn just sounds too boring to stomach haha. Plus, a few lucky bow shots and suddenly Sauron, my only real hope, is in bad shape.
With 12 bows, he'd expect a wound every 3 turns or so, and I'd kill one model every other turn so honestly maybe not even a good trade?
But either way, something to keep in mind for the future, it didn't occur to me just hide all my orcs. Still don't think I'd do it in a friendly game, but worth keeping the strategy in mind.
@@NowForWrathGaming A S3 hit vs D10 is 6/6s, which means you are expecting a wound every 60 shots from elves. That's 5 turns of shooting from 12 warriors.
That being said, it is just a shame Sauron is still designed in a way we even have to consider this as being optimal. Sitting 12" away pointing aggressively for the whole game while his orcs cower in a corner?
You should want Sauron and his orcs to be getting stuck in there. We should be wanting the enemy heroes to team up and take down the dark lord, because without their bravery there is no hope!
Currently there is no reason to and so is rarely any engagement.
30:10 With the monsters attacking spear supports, they don't need to kill every model to do so, if they kill one model and it has a support, they make that free strike before moving to the next in combat. In the Monsters section on page 89, read example 74.
Yeah someone mentioned that. It's great to know and seems even stronger than we thought.
Brutal game overall. Kind of the dream for Last Alliance with the hyper lethal shooting and the whirling blades actually performing above statistical average.
28:00 - While I lament the loss of AOE Hurl to punish camping and swing battle lines in my favour, the new PRECISION Hurl may have been worth a try here (being as you didn't Strike). 3+ Intelligence from Sauron to throw that dude at Gil-Galad - small potential for damage with no risk to Sauron and both elves are prone meaning Gil-Galad is no longer Supporting the fight against the Troll, giving evil the Fight Value advantage there. If you want to go for a Heroic Move roll off next turn, charging into a prone and thus Trapped Gil-Galad might be the best time to do it.
I still don't know where I stand with Barad-dur in the new edition. I've tinkered around with some models and hypothetical match ups but not RUSHED IN to a full tournament format before the new year, kind of still pondering what to build and where to go with it.
At low points, Sauron with just his warband of orcs is actually pretty spicy. Comparable objective dominance to any other average list but unlikely the enemy has enough models to fully zone him out from heroes and those heroes likely cannot fight him. And because of smaller army sizes each Chill Soul he lands is taking out a larger percentage of the enemy model count...
Once you start looking at mid level points 700-750, everything comes into question: Wraith or Orc Spam, Orc Spam or a Troll. All of these seem like reasonable choice with none being obviously powerful.
Ringwraiths are costly, you lose a fair few models. Also losing Might points and being 1 Wound 1 Fate they are primo targets for things like Banishment from Gandalf or a trio of Legolas arrows with Might behind them - in a few turns they are gone or drained of resources. But they do give you more positional control with their spells... Transfixing people calling Strike against Sauron is less of a concern.
Orc spam is entirely agnostic to matchup, gives you the most Might and model count but has no secondary threat, so if they do the "ignore Sauron" thing with one model tying him up and one zoning his barges, you probably don't have much pressure on the board.
A troll gives you some actual threat, you lose a bit of Might and objective dominance total but the higher quality of Defence on the Troll wounds offset it those 4 wounds are half as likely to be removed than D5. And it can be clutch to just jam a F7 D7 model in a choke point so the orcs get to just stand behind safe as houses.
At 800 and over you start being able to consider multiple of these. War Drums probably become auto include. Wraiths meta dependant - don't bother if its going to be sniped or enemies are doing the Fortitude hero spam. A monster is going to be in there, and that may be a Chieftain if you are expecting all kill and no positional scenarios.
Barad Dur needs Black numenoreans, the staying power of D6 is too critical to maintain numbers while Sauron can get work done before getting surrounded by heroes and weight of dice. gil is also specifically really good into Sauron being one of the few heroes to naturally scare Sauron in combat, so not bringing elrond who is probably the better choice overall was kind of hedging in the matchup specifically. The new barge changing are great and positioning Sauron to barge into lesser fight heroes is critical right now as thats about the only thing the list can do. with the rules changes his unstoppable attack is basically useless, and his set aflame rule was always bad. Overall the list is probably a whole tier worse than before without black nums, and I think can be on par or maybe slightly better than before, but no budget wraiths or witchking really hurt barad dur, really needed a cost reduction on them in this army. I also think the last alliance is just one of the best new armies, so this is also not a great showing of barad dur putting it against what is at least top 5 if not top 3 lists in a scenario that favors LA, and skewing the list to handle Sauron better than a more competitive build of the list would have. Barad dur is honestly an army that isnt out to me, and until the 3rd book comes and gives them back black nums the list isnt actually playable, orcs cost too much at 6 points a model with gear, F3 is a wasted stat in the new edition and id rather have 5 point goblins like the balrog gets.
@DFGEmporium They made his Flames of Evil worse too, can you believe it? Max potential of 2 hits on use instead of 3. Auto prones the victim so they don't even have to choose to crawl to put it out... blegh.
Controversially, I never advocated for Black Numenorean spam in Barad-dur. Losing 50% model count and the ability to pierce and or stab made the already meh offensive potential of that list even worse and removed tools to control the timing of scenario end. I took 2 to 6 of them most of the time to hold space around Sauron, to carry his banner and to tie up people like Beorn and Grimbeorn so Sauron doesnt get mauled.
Points saved went to Trackers on Wargs... which I don't think we will see again tbh. They never had a model so not expecting it in book 3. Regular trackers at 5 would be great still, but realistically they are going to also be 6 with something niche added to them like mountain dweller.
@DesmondDentresti they legacied trackers, so they will be in the legacy pdf. You don't really care about your troop killing power though as you are relying on sauron anyway, so having troops that live(and have terror to actually benefit from harbinger) is critical to the list. The loss of Spear bows really hurts this list too as chill soul being 12 in now is really dumb. His unique attacks definitely should have been buffed, but alas, Sauron is still just left in the gutter while Aragorn gets to run free in Christmas land.
Class game. Defos want to give both armies a go
Beautiful models
Thank you!
I always sub to MESBG batreps. Thank you gents
Interesting game! Thinking about Last Alliance, don't know if go with "Father"s or "Child"s heroes hahaha
The new special rule for monsters to hit supports does NOT need to kill all models in contact combat, just the one with (a) support(s). Should have happened a couple times with Troll and Sauron, maybe could have killed 2-3 more spear supports?
Still nice game. Want to play first game with the new Riders of Theoden, gonna see new Eomer!
Oooooh good catch! I didn't realize that but it looks like you're right. Wow, very strong!
@NowForWrathGaming indeed!! It makes the rival ask himself if it is worth to put spear supports against a monster, because if he wins the combat, every kill can be doubled!!
I love how monsters will have much more play in the game. Carn Dum with Trolls, next army
Generally, Isildur and Elrond are almost certainly the better picks, but specifically vs Sauron, where Isildur doesn't get the ring and GG's F9 are particularly valuable, and at 750 where points just work out better for Elendil+GG with the warrior count, then it makes more sense to run GG/Elendil.
This was basically the perfect setting for Elendil/GG over Elrond/Isildur.
Nice batrep! Good to see the new edition in action. Where you rolling a dice wach for the elves special rule when charged (one for front guy one for spear supports)? I think you'd only get 1 dice as only the front guy is charged.
We were usually only rolling one, but sometimes the orc charged two models directly, or the warg rider, so in those cases we rolled 2.
But yeah we didn't roll for spear supports.
@NowForWrathGaming good stuff! Yeah I noticed a couple of times when two dice were rolled the six came up. Guess the lesson is to only charge one at a time 😂
@@foehammer1172 He was trying to tie up two elves with one orc to keep them from moving and surrounding! Had to charge em at the same time!
Is that Steve(?) from the What would Patton do flames of war blog?
It is I!
@@NowForWrathGaming Cool, rock on!
Ah my beloved Last Alliance gets the first blood on this here webzone! What a brutal showcase of the Last Alliance's ranged output that CAN and WILL make them come at you to get Whirl of Steel'd. The High Kings indeed got nerfed hard; especially Gil-Galad ...and don't believe anyone who tells you that "Gil-Galad is OK", he is absolutely not "OK" for 175pts. They should've at least given him Strike instead of Resolve (or F10 in exchange for losing B&G) or allowed two of the most legendary heroes of Middle Earth to have more than just 3 Actions instead of handing out 4-5 Actions to some The Hobbitslop(tm) character(tm). Probably still should go with at least one of the kings at the 700-750 range (especially 750) due to how Warband slots shake up with Elrond & Isildur. 700-750 is a bit rough for LA but they are very strong at 600-650 (Elrond & Isildur) and at 800+ (Elrond & Isildur & Riv Captain).
Those Numenorean bows you've mentioned are indeed called "steel-bows" and the way they're described in the Unfinished Tales they really should have been the equivalent of S4 Great Bows. An expensive 4+ aim S4 bow option for Num Warriors would've provided a better choice between the LA ranged options especially given the additional advantage of High Elf Archers standing in the front and Whirl of Steelin' after shootin'. Now you just go for the numbows because you want the cheap S3 bows to fill points (not a fan). Perhaps they'll finally implement a proper steel-bow if/when they release a Last Alliance supplement (in which I hope/cope they'd also make Gil-Galad suck a bit less).
P.S. The new Hurl isn't a bad deal for most monsters indeed but it got nerfed pretty hard for fast/flying monsters (no more battleline-bowling with Gully)
Agree with absolutely every single thing you said! Man, whirl of steel is definitely very very interesting and strong. But it's just hard listbuilding for LA because of the named hero restrictions.
LA might be getting some help when the much anticipated AoME book (and the legacy pdf) arrives. Could hopefully get a Fortitude elf hero like Erestor (as Elrond's top guy who got legacy'd along with Gildor; he was probably present at the WotLA by Elrond's side) and Cirdan who were all plausibly alive/active in the WotLA. Might get that Glorfindel on steroids from the Angmar pdf too (he arrives before the war as an emissary of the Valar to assist Gil-Galad and Elrond) but it would just be a meta choice between him and Elrond at most pts values except like 1000pt games (I doubt anyone other than the High Kings would be Hero of Legend in the LA list - Glorf would prob be Valour). What Last Alliance would really benefit from is some relatively cheap Numenorean unique/named heroes (mandatory) but I guess we have to wait for a Last Alliance supplement to get Anárion hopefully as a reasonably priced Hero of Valour and some (or all) of Isildur's sons as Heroes of Fortitude. A Disaster at the Gladden Fields scenario is a must-have in such a supplement and the sons play an important role there as named characters.
@@xenosophont Man I do hope we get a Last Alliance themed book soon! We never got it last edition, so fingers crossed. With elf warriors being able to still take bows I'm really hoping that means an elf warrior plastic box might be in the hopper along with a LA book.
A High Elf Warrior box would be my most wanted GeeDubz MESBG product. I like the Davale Numenorean Warriors but their High Elf Warriors are... not great IMHO and the WETA design for them is superior and looks better even as such antiquated models (what are they like 25 years old now?). The more recent Rivendell Knights look great and that Banner Bearer that came along with the new Elrond... now that was superb and is hopefully a sign of things to come.
@@xenosophont Agreed 100%! Fingers crossed for 2025!
Nice battel report, Where did you get the bridge terrain from, is that a 3D print model
What does the drain courage spell do? How does it work please
It makes the model's courage worse by 1. So if they were a 5+ before, they become a 6+ for the rest of the game.
Always felt trolls to be underpowered. Only 3 wounds. No fate or might. 6s to wound from standard troops. Only 3 attacks.
Great vid but a shame that a bow heavy last alliance list is always going to dominate this gamemode sadly! Wish they played it a bit more for-fun and pushed forward and maybe a bit less bow camping!
Yeah it's a tricky balance. We try to not to have too many games like this.
On the other hand, it's a new edition so we wanted to see what happens when each army plays to their strengths. In the end, we're a little more on the competitive side of this game, so we like to do our best even if it sets up some lop-sided games. And when we're trying out brand new armies, we don't want to hamstring ourselves.
That said, most videos will not be like this. We avoid bow camping matchups most of the time these days.