I suggest that if your doing a entire system like this with all new cables, that you do a test crimp and cut it diagonally through the lug to see if the wire inside has become basically solid copper.
Andy, Pro Tip: When you are crimping the ends of cables with connectors, after you crimp the closest crimp to the cable, when you crimp the 2nd crimp closest to the end, offset it so the flat of crimping is halfway, offsetting the flats of the crimp. This makes it so the bunching areas of the crimp are forced against flats going both directions. When you crimp both identical, the path for potential failure is increased, since there is less resistance for the cable to slide out. When you crimp them offset, the corners of the crimp flats create small ledges of resistance. Regarding crimping ends going forward, im not sure how expensive they are for you in australia, but here in USA they are hard to come by, most places are out of stock and the few that did have them in stock wanted premium pricing. So when i wired mine last year, i used thicker walled copper pipe that was just slightly larger than the cable size. I actually triple crimped mine since using the pipe was a fraction of the cost of purchasing ends, then i used the same type of hyraulic crimper as you to crimp it on the cables. On the inbetween connections, instead of using cables with crimped ends, i just used the copper pipe and flattened it, then in the middle of the section, i put a small expansion bend up and back down, so after they are installed if there is movement in the batteries, the bend is able to flex the difference, then i dipped it in plasti-dip, since its far cheaper than shrink tube over here in USA with all the shortages in stock.
I too found that using a smaller die made a crimp connection that didn't pull out but left enormous "love handles", indicating that the cable didn't fill the lug properly. THEN I found the reason. Look at your cable spec. If your supplier does not specify the number of strands and their diameter then can i sell you a pig in a poke? You will be a good customer for rubbish. Now measure the diameter of the strands and count them. Flexible cable is usually specced as 0.30 mm diameter. I have measured some cables from different sources and all were 0.27mm . Do the arithmetic and you realise the cable is 20% under size. My 20mm2 is actually 16mm2 and fits a 16mm2 lug exactly and crimps properly. The cable is marked "Made in the EU".
As I recently bought a similar crimp tool I learned, that for 25mm2 cable I need 16m2 lug and die and for 35mm2 cable I need 25mm2 lugs. I guess that for hexagon crimping, wire must fit as tight as possible in the lug. When I tried 25mm2 lug on 25mm2 cable it didn't work at all. Cable just fell out of the lug.
It all depends a bit on the ring lugs as well. I have used the really heavy duty ones for my power cables and they are a lot thicker than the ones I bought before. I still us the smaller size die here and there when I feel the crimp is not strong enough.
Wrong lug . U need a eu din iso lug. Not cheap junk or usa lugs . Are not make for this unit. A EU iso din the wall its thicker in the lug and some even have ribbels inside to grap the copper wire. Good crimper but people do not know how to hide it .
I found the same issue 2 years ago when I was building my off grid battery bank.( 4 1200 AH fork lift batteries in a 2 bank 24 v configuration)_ I was using a hammer crimp then switched to a hydrolic crimper I first used a 70 mm for the 4 o wire then recrimped w/ a 50 mm. I used dielectic grease and heat shrink tubing
That battery rack is looking great! Blue Bar Industries are only 10 minutes down the road. You should have come by for a visit yesterday if you had time.
I know, I saw your charger popping up on the screen but we had to head south again so didn't have too much time. Next time, I'll let you know when we're that way. Just a crazy long drive...
I found a similar thing with the same crimper. I ended up just shaving a small amount of the edge so it crimps a bit tighter. The other thing that you could consider (although this is a but late now) is you can get right-angle crimp terminals. That may make the system a bit neater and prevent the wire protruding out the top of the system. You can get different angles too, some are left or right, up or down. Very useful in setups like yours. BTW, the crimper is easier to use with the pump handle facing up. You can just rotate the handle section. I've done hundreds of crimps with mine now, and it makes it so much easier using gravity to help. I did use your vice suggestion to help too.
Yes, it is common thing - crimping multiwire cable's core to lug with a lower size of crimper's press dies. For exapmle, we are crimping 150 sq. mm. lugs with dies for 120 sq. mm. This depends on lug's wall thickness + summary diameter of multiwire cable's core. Sometimes we use odd combinations like 50/70 dies: one 50 and one 70, if real dies size will lay between standard sizes. So, we choose and trimming size of crimping dies almost for each type/size of current cable/lug combinatios, exactly the same way as you shown in this video. 😊 And this is normal situation! It is very rare, when lug size corresponds with the same dies size. Maybe, this works for lugs and crimpers from German Klauke brand. 😎 Also, I recommend to turn hydro-crimper for 180 degree - with handle in up position. So, you can apply your own weight to push handle during crimping to ease it. Do your crimper has "finishing" pressure-relief valve? This valve releases crimper's oil pressure in the end of each crimping, and helps much in prevention of overpressure at dies and lug. Concerning battery strings. Are individual fuses were forseen for each battery string: individual fuse from battery terminal (presumably, pisitive terminal) to the corresponding vertical (common positive) busbar?
Hi Andy, shouldn't you connect the - from the switch to one side of the - busbar and the + from the switch to the opposite (lower end) of the + busbar? This way the the length and the resistence of all connections to the battery blocks are all equal, and you avoid having different terminal voltages at the battery blocks depending on how far the battery blocks are away from the top end of the busbars. This is similar to how you connect 12 V batterie blocks in parallel. You don't connect +/- to the same battery block, but + to one and - to the other. This ensures equal terminal voltages. And regarding crimping of high current connections, the professional rule in Germany is that you should use always matching lugs/tools from the same manufacturers. There are also different standards for the lugs, so the tool should at least match the standard of the lugs. There are also different crimp patterns. I have best experience with the WM crimp on finely stranded cable, instead of hexagonal pattern. But of course, this standardized lugs and matching tools are much more expensive than the cheap Chinese products.
I used to crimp my lugs, but have for awhile used solder, this way I can reuse to lugs anytime when I redesign things again, also I would look at use large shrink wrap of the red and black on the busbars and trim the shrink wrap where needed at intersections and ends, this way helps prevent shorts and defines the positive and negative busbars from each other, becomes also neater
I heard soldering is bad for high currents as the solder can get brittle and breaks over time. Not sure if this is true though. the internet... you know...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Soldering makes joints that break. They cannot take vibration. All solder joints should be mechanically secured first before soldering. Proper soldering should show the wire shape with just a wipe of solder. No Mr. Blobby. Crimping should produce a metal weld. I worked as QA for military electronics assembly. Have you had your crimper calibrated? Of course not, it costs too much.
@@tryagain.k1821 Thanks for the information. I always crimp only. I also cut one of my crimps open and could see the cable has become one piece with the lug, you could not see where the joint was. No calibration for these cheap crimpers, mate...
Hi Andy, I love your videos. I had the same problem with some of my sizes. Here in the states we use AWG sizes and they don't always match up with metric sizes. Sometimes even within the same size, different lugs will need a little help. When it falls between two sizes, I will take the bigger size and grind the face to allow it to close further. Doing that by hand, it is hard to get the faces to be parallel when finished so I will put the dies in the crimper and use a flat file to true them up. Just tighten the crimper to almost snug and work the file back and forth and you can end up with nice mating surfaces. I have a video over on my channel about making perfect crimps where I show several crimps that I have cut in half to show the perfect cold weld that can be created. I am making 16 of these 16s 280ah batteries so there are hundreds of these large crimps to make. For that reason it was worth it to me to buy both sizes of hydraulic crimpers. I am so glad I did after using the big one on these large crimps without fear of breaking it if I make a really strong crimp. Anyway sir, Keep up the great work!! You are inspiring many to be unafraid to do these projects and achieve great results. Thanks so much.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hi Andy , it’s a bit of mission creep. It started as two homes, mine and a friend wanting battery backup for our homes and so each of us with four 280ah 16s batteries. As we were working on it we decided to add two more each and just go ahead and take our houses off grid. We really don’t trust our electric utility company. Then recently we decided since all the infrastructure was in place and the technology was figured out we would go ahead and go to eight each for a total of 112 KWh of capacity. That should allow us to live normally without making allowances for our off grid status most of the year and have more flexibility during the long cloudy spells that sometimes happen. Also the large battery array will be more robust, more lightly used and will last more years than a system that is closer to the edge. It is a costly endeavor but if the lights go out it will be worth ten times what we paid. Thanks for all you do. I’ll keep watching you. Drop by and see what I’m doing in sunny hot Texas. It’s like Australia but more uppity and without the liter sized beer cans.
Yea you own one of those Chinese crimp tools. Me too. The crimp dies seem to be dervied from imperial system. They just mark them metric to next somehow viable size. Many users complain about this "feature". Well, that is the downside of low price.
Most wind generators are fairly crap from what I saw online. They need full wind all time to generate what ~700W. Same as three more panels... We're also living in a valley so not much wind down here ...
Did the same as me with the lugs. I used all the 10mm and had only 6mm left. I just drilled them out to 10mm. Too easy. Now I am just buy smaller ones and drilling to make bigger. That way I've got all sizes. Plus you can get a tighter fit.
I think the numbers on the dies correspond to rated amperage rather than the sqmm of cable. Either that or it is an identification number and the table in the manual will tell youwhat it means. I saw a manual for a simular tool where the numbers had an AWG rating and the die number did not correspond to sqmm. 4/0 is 120mmsq but the right die number was 95 according to the table.
Have the same issue with my hydraulic crimper, always have to go 1 size under to get a good crimp. I was able to pull the lug off easily with the correct size.
habe auf der baustelle von uns das gleiche problem mit den kabelschuhen. habe dann mal den kabelhersteller angeschrieben wieso ein 70er schuh nicht auf dem 70er kabel hält. als info habe ich dann dies bekommen: früher wurden die kupferstränge im kabel rund ausgeführt, heute werden sie dreieckig hergestellt.(spart platz) leider sind die querschnitte damit auch etwas kleiner. man bracht für die neuen kabel auch die neuen passenden shuhe.
Danke Dir. Also meine Kabelstraenge im Kabel sind definitiv rund ausgefuehrt und zusammengeflochten. Ich denke es haengt auch mit der Dicke des Kabelschuhs zusammen. Die Billigen von eBay sind schon um einiges duenner.
Same issue with my hydraulic crimper always seem to end up using the next size down. but what i do so i don't get the sharp edges is turn the lug 90 degrees in the die and recrimp to create a uniform hex shape
OK, so I read that this is not good as it could weaken the material of the lugs. It gets squished left and right and may end up with little cracks. I have filled them down to smooth the edges with the cheap ring lugs from eBay. With these proper ones now, I didn't have the issues any more. the 70mm is the first where the die does not fit.
Andy from the looks of the crimps you are using they seem to be not as thick on the crimp sleeve end, as I have used, when putting the multi strand cable into the lugs it seems to be a bit loose, ours are very tight. Videos are great mate!
I spoke to one of the leading US companies about crimps a few years ago. They said there is no standard for the thickness of the metal in the lugs, and even more variation in the no-name brands. So no tool [sic] could be certain to make a proper crimp unless the tool and lug were from the same maker. Possibly more sales marketing than engineering advice. But here in the US we usually see hydraulic crimpers in mm2 sizes, which just match our AWG wiring. And, cheap sources are known to buy the out of spec used tool dies that the better companies regularly throw out as trash. Hard to know what really is "good enough".
I bought cheap lugs on eBay before and they were really cheap and thin. These ones are heavy duty and also... heavy. So you can feel a difference already from that weight.
Hello from the high desert of New Mexico USA 🇺🇸. Andy please be careful with using too much pressure with those C-frame type of hydraulic crimper, if you really want to get really good crimps, try replacing the dies with higher quality ones such as the ones from Temco, I think you will be happy with them. I hope this helps you out Andy .keep up the good work and stay safe and charged
Andy They sold the same crimper here in the states. Unfortunately I own one lol. About half of my dies have been modified to work on AWG wire size. The “split line” has been machined (or angle grinder) down at the split both sides. If’s a trial fit that you work up to. I just checked. The 70mm die that I use on 2/0 has been modified too. The perfect crimp has crisp corners on the hex and just at the point where the copper is about to extrude or flash at the split. I use only Selterm or Ancor lugs because of quality and it’s what I fit my dies to work with. Tests have shown that a re-crimp at a different angle can actually loosen the grip on the strands so don’t do that. Your instinct are spot on Andy. That first crimp was way light. I wonder how many people had problems when the current came?
I'm just wondering why you don't also tie the negative terminal, after the shunt, to the shelf and make it a common ground for your system? I'm not suggesting, just wondering.
Because it needs to go through the isolator first. It's a two pole isolator breaker. If something goes wrong it isolates positive and negative at the same time, completely disconnects the battery.
Suggest that the use of a product called No-Ox on the bare copper wire before inserting into the connection lugs .It stops the oxidation of the copper and does not affect the conductivity. Also use where any connection is made including bolt ups . Also the use of a product called Nomex paper to protect cables around and over sharp edges. These products are used in the telecoms industry and have along term track record.
Yeah, I have that and did experiments with it. It is good. For a while... then the bad connections and corrosion starts again. I tested other products as well. The best results I had was with no chemicals in between busbar and terminal for example. I used the tinned copper bus bars which came with the cells and 4Nm on the original terminals without any preparation (no cleaning or sanding) and never had any issues since the installation 1.5 yrs ago.
Im using the same crimper you have there. The die nevery work with the number on it. Just day im crimping a 50mm2 lug, I'll use a 50mm + a 35mm die on it. Work every time.
If you're still figuring how to right angle out the top of the main breaker, without over bending the cable and lug: make a short copper busbar link to extend straight up. Bolt to breaker, and tap to bolt lug on at 90 deg. Other cable lug out the side where you notched the breaker housing plastic. It's an extra bolted connection, but hey...
Andy; have you calculated the maximum capacity for these aluminum main buss bars? Thanks for sharing. Also, thanks, for sharing your frog. Is this where you got your sniped audio?
Hi Teddy, yes I did. It's here in this video: ua-cam.com/video/mdr5HZZRaTc/v-deo.html Oh, it may have only the calculation of the resistance of these bars in comparison to the copper bars which come with the cells...
I’m not sure your collection of lugs but if I had a spare smaller lug, I would drill out the hole enlarging it to fit the electrical post. One more thing I would do… I would at least double layer the heat shrink tubing over those lugs. That tubing is Very thin and can be damaged easily. I’m a fan of isolation. Only MY opinion 🙂
I see a new test video: resistance testing and crappy crimp dies! (heh, I have the same crimper....70 is too large...) Distance in measurement of Time? Hahah, this is what we do in Texas!
i used the 50mm size on a 70mm cable too. I feel the crimp looks more like yours at 70mm 😅. I get all the way no wrinkles. seems strong but i will like a method to find how to test it if it's good enough. I don't have something to push 200A and see if it's heats up
depending on brand of lug i have found i normally go one size die down. even though i only buy quality thick lugs i find sometimes they are a tad loose. the other thing to note is some wire is not the full mm2 also.
Refreshing Andy when you don't scrimp too much on the expletives. At 2:50 I approve of those buss bars and insulating stand-offs too, Must be good for 1500 amps and 5KV eh? And at 8:45, I was wondering if you have any thoughts on using anti-corrosion compounds like Penatrox in crimp lugs? I know it's primarily intended mainly for Aluminum to Copper crimps but on high amp connections I often used it on copper as well. Also, I seem to recall Burndy instructions recommending stripped conductors be wire brushed clean prior to crimping for both AU and CU to remove hard corrosion. At 9:45 I like the look of your crimp with the 50mm die better, as I seem to recall crimping cables around 4-0 seemed to compress more using the half-round Burndy lugs and the old 'HyPress', but dies for larger conductors, say 650MCM to 1000MCM, I recall being Hexagonal and I seem to recall that crimps often looked under-compressed, similar to what you have there.
I know this two years later... but I always crimp one way and then turn it 60* (next notch) and crimp again. if it doesn't feel tight then I go one size smaller and just give it a kiss.
The die used to crimp a lug in a wire is sized by the wires gauge and tubing thickness used to make the lug. In the good old USA the best lugs are UL listed. Dies should be selected to match the lug manufacturers specs and the wire diameter. There is wire that is compact stranded, Class K stranding, Welding wire that may not be standard AWG copper diameter. Then if you wdd in the Chinese produced metric wire and cheap thin lug tubing, the problem becomes worse.
The crimper and lugs must fit together maybe with some extra work on the dies and then it’s not a problem when they come from China, Hey almost everything is coming from there,and like everywhere you have good ones and bad ones….iphone😮
Wow your in Queensland nice. It rains allot there sometimes you get 2Meter high flood lol. We traveled all around Australia in 2019/2020 and really liked cairns 😊
Hey Andy..plenty of welding supply shops in Ipswich that will sell 25mm² to 120mm² cable and lugs..there often the longer lug that you want and I find them cheaper then electrical stores
Hi Andy, love your videos and I sure you bring a smile to many faces. I'm down in Port Stephens NSW and was wondering where you buy your lugs from as they look very good quality. Cheers
I got one of the cheapo 10 ton crimpers and it just couldn't do any big terminals (pretty much nothing happened when pumping). Either it was a faulty one, or just can't handle the big ones (got a refund). I then got the 16 ton version which is much better for big terminals (just did some 70mm ones), but only has dies for down to 16mm.
When using the correct lugs, cable and die combination, one crimp is all you should need to get proper termination the first time every time. Multi-crimping may yield worse long-term results from over-working the copper, possibly breaking some strands and work-hardening others.
Well, in the switchboard company I used to work they hade extra long lugs and we crimped them 3 times. You can only overwork the material if you crimp them several times and from different angles, so they get squished back and forward.
Connect the smart shunt directly to the busbar no cable needed in the victron lynx systems the shunt is the connection between the NEG battery side and the NEG consumer side.
You gotta love this Hydraulic crimpers. I have one, and use it a lot. Nevertheless I am not an expert, still on the begining of the learning curve. Love those thick cables too... Good work and waiting to see those shelves populated and storing Poooowaaaaa!!! 🤤🤤
Very nice video. I wanted to get the 304ah eve cells shipped to the Uk, 32 of them but the postage is almost the same price as the 32 cells lol. How is the postage like in Australia?
When I need 4-6 connectors, I buy the box of 25. The box is cheaper, and then I always wind up with extra connectors that (of course) are never needed. But overall, it is cheaper than all the extra time and trips to get "just one more".
I'm in the energy field. We pull test every batch of crimps. I suggest you do the same. Looks will not tell the story. A 2/0 cable correctly crimped should with stand 1200 lbs of pulling force. If it doesn't, it's crimped wrong. Every size cable is different. Look up the rating for each size.
Andi, where do you get that nice lugs? Ive been using Jaycar ones and they terrible to put the cables in it. They don't have that nice angled edges like yours do. Cheers mate
@@pmacgowan Some folks recommended plywood, which should not sag as much. But technically combustible and thicker to not sag. 8mm 1/4 inch aluminum plate with lexan on top of that is sure very nice. No skimp Andy!
Crimped connections loosen up over time and usage with thermal expansion and contraction, soldered is best IMO, but you can crimp and solder those, just dont use plumbing flux....
No, solder introduces more problems than it solves, damage to the insulation from heat transfer, solder wicking up the cable and creating a hard point making the cable prone to breakage, soldered joints are actually specifically not to be used under screw terminals due to the effects of thermal contraction and expansion introduced by the lead tin. A copper lug on copper cable will have the same thermal expansion
111321/1357h PST 🇺🇸 111421/0757h Brisbane 🇦🇺 Guten Morgan , Herr Andy. Danke schon. The acrylic sheet idea ist gut. My steel cabinet is small and white 5mm cutting board was used. It’s strong and no metal was required under it. Have a nice day ahead und 73s…
Hi, the krimping tool is not the Problem. The Ring Logs are. There are different Brands off Ring Logs and the have a different Material thinknes. So normal you Need a krinper thats Match your brand Ring log.
You should be cutting off a little bit more insulation before putting the lug on. When the lug is on you should see about 1-2mm of copper at the back of the lug rather than the lug being right up against the insulation
Having the Gap you speak of helps me every once in awhile because I can cut the shrink wrap off and see inside to monitor how much corrosion is going on. This was useful when I had lead batteries but now I don't see the point because I'm using lithium and none of my cables are having any corrosion problems anymore.
@@SiriusSolar the other reason to do it that is that when you bend the cable, it isn't levering against the insulation and pulling the strands out of the lug
Sick of hearing about how brilliant your weather is and how hot and how much your generating lol At least the rain is good for your frogs, which I'm missing. My frogs are all hibernating 🐸 As said, I always use a slightly smaller die to ensure proper crimping.
Poor Chris poor Chris. I know how you must feel I grew up in a cold area but have since moved to hawaii. I'm always shocked when I'm browsing Facebook and everyone starts complaining about the weather. I've been here so long I forgot what winter is!
10:11 The pressing result also depends on the material thickness of the cable lugs. With thinner wall thicknesses, the pressure is not as strong as with a thicker wall thickness. Unfortunately there are many differences in the cable lugs. Always depends on the manufacturer. You can compensate for this with smaller crimping inserts, as you have already shown correctly.
Time is the more important part of distance. The speed of driving 50K thru town or 50K on a good highway or in the bush will be very different. But if you know the trip will take 30 minutes you can plan your day, whether that means you will travel 25K thru the city or 75K to reach the city.
That YQK tool is such rubbish. The anvils do not do a proper job. Full marks for re-crimping with a smaller 50mm die. The tool must be held in a bench vice. Some of these tube lugs have an open end in the tube tunnel so you can see that your cable is fully inserted. I would use this access as a means of feed some solder down the joint afterwards. Put solder flux on wires first and maybe solder paste to help flow. You need a gas torch as a lot of heat is needed. I think maybe cut back more insulation so you see say10mm of wire when inserted. This way you can see the solder wicking up the cable. You dont want much as it creates a solid junction with the flexible wire. Use heat shrink tube to cover the joint. BTW dont use this tool on 4mm and 6mm2 cable too small and doesnt work.
I suggest that if your doing a entire system like this with all new cables, that you do a test crimp and cut it diagonally through the lug to see if the wire inside has become basically solid copper.
Andy, Pro Tip: When you are crimping the ends of cables with connectors, after you crimp the closest crimp to the cable, when you crimp the 2nd crimp closest to the end, offset it so the flat of crimping is halfway, offsetting the flats of the crimp. This makes it so the bunching areas of the crimp are forced against flats going both directions. When you crimp both identical, the path for potential failure is increased, since there is less resistance for the cable to slide out. When you crimp them offset, the corners of the crimp flats create small ledges of resistance. Regarding crimping ends going forward, im not sure how expensive they are for you in australia, but here in USA they are hard to come by, most places are out of stock and the few that did have them in stock wanted premium pricing. So when i wired mine last year, i used thicker walled copper pipe that was just slightly larger than the cable size. I actually triple crimped mine since using the pipe was a fraction of the cost of purchasing ends, then i used the same type of hyraulic crimper as you to crimp it on the cables. On the inbetween connections, instead of using cables with crimped ends, i just used the copper pipe and flattened it, then in the middle of the section, i put a small expansion bend up and back down, so after they are installed if there is movement in the batteries, the bend is able to flex the difference, then i dipped it in plasti-dip, since its far cheaper than shrink tube over here in USA with all the shortages in stock.
I too found that using a smaller die made a crimp connection that didn't pull out but left enormous "love handles", indicating that the cable didn't fill the lug properly. THEN I found the reason.
Look at your cable spec.
If your supplier does not specify the number of strands and their diameter then can i sell you a pig in a poke? You will be a good customer for rubbish.
Now measure the diameter of the strands and count them. Flexible cable is usually specced as 0.30 mm diameter. I have measured some cables from different sources and all were 0.27mm . Do the arithmetic and you realise the cable is 20% under size. My 20mm2 is actually 16mm2 and fits a 16mm2 lug exactly and crimps properly. The cable is marked "Made in the EU".
As I recently bought a similar crimp tool I learned, that for 25mm2 cable I need 16m2 lug and die and for 35mm2 cable I need 25mm2 lugs. I guess that for hexagon crimping, wire must fit as tight as possible in the lug. When I tried 25mm2 lug on 25mm2 cable it didn't work at all. Cable just fell out of the lug.
It all depends a bit on the ring lugs as well. I have used the really heavy duty ones for my power cables and they are a lot thicker than the ones I bought before. I still us the smaller size die here and there when I feel the crimp is not strong enough.
Wrong lug .
U need a eu din iso lug.
Not cheap junk or usa lugs .
Are not make for this unit.
A EU iso din the wall its thicker in the lug and some even have ribbels inside to grap the copper wire.
Good crimper but people do not know how to hide it .
I found the same issue 2 years ago when I was building my off grid battery bank.( 4 1200 AH fork lift batteries in a 2 bank 24 v configuration)_ I was using a hammer crimp then switched to a hydrolic crimper I first used a 70 mm for the 4 o wire then recrimped w/ a 50 mm. I used dielectic grease and heat shrink tubing
Do have the exact same tool, crimping 70mm cable. Had to use the 50mm die in the same way
Ah, good to know. Thanks for sharing. The die seems to be too large for these lugs.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia likely Chinesium 🤦🏻♂️ or maybe just badly copied from the original with not enough clearance on the die’s where they meet.
That battery rack is looking great!
Blue Bar Industries are only 10 minutes down the road. You should have come by for a visit yesterday if you had time.
I know, I saw your charger popping up on the screen but we had to head south again so didn't have too much time. Next time, I'll let you know when we're that way. Just a crazy long drive...
I found a similar thing with the same crimper. I ended up just shaving a small amount of the edge so it crimps a bit tighter.
The other thing that you could consider (although this is a but late now) is you can get right-angle crimp terminals. That may make the system a bit neater and prevent the wire protruding out the top of the system. You can get different angles too, some are left or right, up or down. Very useful in setups like yours.
BTW, the crimper is easier to use with the pump handle facing up. You can just rotate the handle section. I've done hundreds of crimps with mine now, and it makes it so much easier using gravity to help. I did use your vice suggestion to help too.
Yes, it is common thing - crimping multiwire cable's core to lug with a lower size of crimper's press dies. For exapmle, we are crimping 150 sq. mm. lugs with dies for 120 sq. mm. This depends on lug's wall thickness + summary diameter of multiwire cable's core. Sometimes we use odd combinations like 50/70 dies: one 50 and one 70, if real dies size will lay between standard sizes. So, we choose and trimming size of crimping dies almost for each type/size of current cable/lug combinatios, exactly the same way as you shown in this video. 😊 And this is normal situation! It is very rare, when lug size corresponds with the same dies size. Maybe, this works for lugs and crimpers from German Klauke brand. 😎
Also, I recommend to turn hydro-crimper for 180 degree - with handle in up position. So, you can apply your own weight to push handle during crimping to ease it. Do your crimper has "finishing" pressure-relief valve? This valve releases crimper's oil pressure in the end of each crimping, and helps much in prevention of overpressure at dies and lug.
Concerning battery strings. Are individual fuses were forseen for each battery string: individual fuse from battery terminal (presumably, pisitive terminal) to the corresponding vertical (common positive) busbar?
Hi Andy, shouldn't you connect the - from the switch to one side of the - busbar and the + from the switch to the opposite (lower end) of the + busbar?
This way the the length and the resistence of all connections to the battery blocks are all equal, and you avoid having different terminal voltages at the battery blocks depending on how far the battery blocks are away from the top end of the busbars.
This is similar to how you connect 12 V batterie blocks in parallel. You don't connect +/- to the same battery block, but + to one and - to the other. This ensures equal terminal voltages.
And regarding crimping of high current connections, the professional rule in Germany is that you should use always matching lugs/tools from the same manufacturers. There are also different standards for the lugs, so the tool should at least match the standard of the lugs. There are also different crimp patterns. I have best experience with the WM crimp on finely stranded cable, instead of hexagonal pattern. But of course, this standardized lugs and matching tools are much more expensive than the cheap Chinese products.
I used to crimp my lugs, but have for awhile used solder, this way I can reuse to lugs anytime when I redesign things again, also I would look at use large shrink wrap of the red and black on the busbars and trim the shrink wrap where needed at intersections and ends, this way helps prevent shorts and defines the positive and negative busbars from each other, becomes also neater
I heard soldering is bad for high currents as the solder can get brittle and breaks over time. Not sure if this is true though. the internet... you know...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Soldering makes joints that break. They cannot take vibration. All solder joints should be mechanically secured first before soldering. Proper soldering should show the wire shape with just a wipe of solder. No Mr. Blobby. Crimping should produce a metal weld. I worked as QA for military electronics assembly. Have you had your crimper calibrated? Of course not, it costs too much.
@@tryagain.k1821 Thanks for the information. I always crimp only. I also cut one of my crimps open and could see the cable has become one piece with the lug, you could not see where the joint was.
No calibration for these cheap crimpers, mate...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Very good practise cutting open a lug. Congrats.
Liked just for the frog at the end. Keep up the good work!
I also use 1 size smaler for crimping of big cables.
Where I lived as a child we had tree frogs too. I was always fond of them. Fun to watch.
This is exactly what I needed to know, so I didn't waste any terminals.
Hi Andy, I love your videos. I had the same problem with some of my sizes. Here in the states we use AWG sizes and they don't always match up with metric sizes. Sometimes even within the same size, different lugs will need a little help.
When it falls between two sizes, I will take the bigger size and grind the face to allow it to close further. Doing that by hand, it is hard to get the faces to be parallel when finished so I will put the dies in the crimper and use a flat file to true them up. Just tighten the crimper to almost snug and work the file back and forth and you can end up with nice mating surfaces.
I have a video over on my channel about making perfect crimps where I show several crimps that I have cut in half to show the perfect cold weld that can be created. I am making 16 of these 16s 280ah batteries so there are hundreds of these large crimps to make. For that reason it was worth it to me to buy both sizes of hydraulic crimpers. I am so glad I did after using the big one on these large crimps without fear of breaking it if I make a really strong crimp.
Anyway sir, Keep up the great work!! You are inspiring many to be unafraid to do these projects and achieve great results. Thanks so much.
Thanks for sharing, Ray. Great tips.
What's this huge battery for? Building a SuperCharger at your place?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hi Andy , it’s a bit of mission creep. It started as two homes, mine and a friend wanting battery backup for our homes and so each of us with four 280ah 16s batteries. As we were working on it we decided to add two more each and just go ahead and take our houses off grid. We really don’t trust our electric utility company. Then recently we decided since all the infrastructure was in place and the technology was figured out we would go ahead and go to eight each for a total of 112 KWh of capacity. That should allow us to live normally without making allowances for our off grid status most of the year and have more flexibility during the long cloudy spells that sometimes happen. Also the large battery array will be more robust, more lightly used and will last more years than a system that is closer to the edge. It is a costly endeavor but if the lights go out it will be worth ten times what we paid. Thanks for all you do. I’ll keep watching you. Drop by and see what I’m doing in sunny hot Texas. It’s like Australia but more uppity and without the liter sized beer cans.
Yea you own one of those Chinese crimp tools. Me too. The crimp dies seem to be dervied from imperial system. They just mark them metric to next somehow viable size. Many users complain about this "feature". Well, that is the downside of low price.
What about windmill.. Maybe That Could be something to test in the future. When it's not Sunny Hot Australia
Most wind generators are fairly crap from what I saw online. They need full wind all time to generate what ~700W. Same as three more panels... We're also living in a valley so not much wind down here ...
Did the same as me with the lugs. I used all the 10mm and had only 6mm left. I just drilled them out to 10mm. Too easy. Now I am just buy smaller ones and drilling to make bigger. That way I've got all sizes. Plus you can get a tighter fit.
Did too. Thanks.
Except for the m12 lugs, i notice they have larger surface area then the m6-m10 which doesn't leave much meat when you drill those out to m12.
I feel your pain!
I have done all of those things in the past couple of weeks..
I have driven one hour each way to pick up my lugs..
Twice!!
I think the numbers on the dies correspond to rated amperage rather than the sqmm of cable. Either that or it is an identification number and the table in the manual will tell youwhat it means. I saw a manual for a simular tool where the numbers had an AWG rating and the die number did not correspond to sqmm. 4/0 is 120mmsq but the right die number was 95 according to the table.
Hold your cable curve while crimping
9:04 70mm2 cables? where you got them?
The links to all my materials and tools are in the description of the videos: off-grid-garage.com/cables-and-connectors/
Have the same issue with my hydraulic crimper, always have to go 1 size under to get a good crimp. I was able to pull the lug off easily with the correct size.
habe auf der baustelle von uns das gleiche problem mit den kabelschuhen. habe dann mal den kabelhersteller angeschrieben wieso ein 70er schuh nicht auf dem 70er kabel hält.
als info habe ich dann dies bekommen:
früher wurden die kupferstränge im kabel rund ausgeführt, heute werden sie dreieckig hergestellt.(spart platz) leider sind die querschnitte damit auch etwas kleiner.
man bracht für die neuen kabel auch die neuen passenden shuhe.
Danke Dir. Also meine Kabelstraenge im Kabel sind definitiv rund ausgefuehrt und zusammengeflochten. Ich denke es haengt auch mit der Dicke des Kabelschuhs zusammen. Die Billigen von eBay sind schon um einiges duenner.
Top little video Andy.
Merci pour la suite du suspens... ;-)
Same issue with my hydraulic crimper always seem to end up using the next size down. but what i do so i don't get the sharp edges is turn the lug 90 degrees in the die and recrimp to create a uniform hex shape
OK, so I read that this is not good as it could weaken the material of the lugs. It gets squished left and right and may end up with little cracks. I have filled them down to smooth the edges with the cheap ring lugs from eBay. With these proper ones now, I didn't have the issues any more. the 70mm is the first where the die does not fit.
Andy from the looks of the crimps you are using they seem to be not as thick on the crimp sleeve end, as I have used, when putting the multi strand cable into the lugs it seems to be a bit loose, ours are very tight.
Videos are great mate!
I spoke to one of the leading US companies about crimps a few years ago. They said there is no standard for the thickness of the metal in the lugs, and even more variation in the no-name brands. So no tool [sic] could be certain to make a proper crimp unless the tool and lug were from the same maker. Possibly more sales marketing than engineering advice.
But here in the US we usually see hydraulic crimpers in mm2 sizes, which just match our AWG wiring. And, cheap sources are known to buy the out of spec used tool dies that the better companies regularly throw out as trash.
Hard to know what really is "good enough".
I bought cheap lugs on eBay before and they were really cheap and thin. These ones are heavy duty and also... heavy. So you can feel a difference already from that weight.
Hello from the high desert of New Mexico USA 🇺🇸. Andy please be careful with using too much pressure with those C-frame type of hydraulic crimper, if you really want to get really good crimps, try replacing the dies with higher quality ones such as the ones from Temco, I think you will be happy with them. I hope this helps you out Andy .keep up the good work and stay safe and charged
Andy
They sold the same crimper here in the states. Unfortunately I own one lol.
About half of my dies have been modified to work on AWG wire size. The “split line” has been machined (or angle grinder) down at the split both sides. If’s a trial fit that you work up to. I just checked. The 70mm die that I use on 2/0 has been modified too. The perfect crimp has crisp corners on the hex and just at the point where the copper is about to extrude or flash at the split. I use only Selterm or Ancor lugs because of quality and it’s what I fit my dies to work with.
Tests have shown that a re-crimp at a different angle can actually loosen the grip on the strands so don’t do that.
Your instinct are spot on Andy. That first crimp was way light. I wonder how many people had problems when the current came?
Looks great. I'd think more than a couple of times about how hard it'll be to get under a secured acrylic cover... dowels pull quickly
How many days of autonomy do you have or plan to have... opinion on doa, please?
I do this for the purpose of learning mostly. The vehicle needs a lot of juice so 32kWh is a good start I think...
Heya really intrested in this set up want to do something simalair but the with a metal closet withs I bought 1 year ago
So how many tons are needed in a crimp? How do you choose?
you have such a nice demeanour . if thats correct. love the videos.
I'm just wondering why you don't also tie the negative terminal, after the shunt, to the shelf and make it a common ground for your system? I'm not suggesting, just wondering.
Because it needs to go through the isolator first. It's a two pole isolator breaker. If something goes wrong it isolates positive and negative at the same time, completely disconnects the battery.
I have found the same issue with my crimpers. I think they are all like this but why!!! I use the size below just as you did👍
Suggest that the use of a product called No-Ox on the bare copper wire before inserting into the connection lugs .It stops the oxidation of the copper and does not affect the conductivity. Also use where any connection is made including bolt ups .
Also the use of a product called Nomex paper to protect cables around and over sharp edges. These products are used in the telecoms industry and have along term track record.
Yeah, I have that and did experiments with it. It is good. For a while... then the bad connections and corrosion starts again. I tested other products as well. The best results I had was with no chemicals in between busbar and terminal for example. I used the tinned copper bus bars which came with the cells and 4Nm on the original terminals without any preparation (no cleaning or sanding) and never had any issues since the installation 1.5 yrs ago.
Im using the same crimper you have there. The die nevery work with the number on it. Just day im crimping a 50mm2 lug, I'll use a 50mm + a 35mm die on it. Work every time.
If you're still figuring how to right angle out the top of the main breaker, without over bending the cable and lug: make a short copper busbar link to extend straight up. Bolt to breaker, and tap to bolt lug on at 90 deg. Other cable lug out the side where you notched the breaker housing plastic. It's an extra bolted connection, but hey...
All sorted, thank you. The bus bar link is a great idea and would have been my next best solution.
Why are those buss Bars not insulated with shrinktube ?
Why not use polycarbonate clear sheeting (Lexan)?
Why not waiting for a bit until I finish building this section 😉
Andy; have you calculated the maximum capacity for these aluminum main buss bars? Thanks for sharing. Also, thanks, for sharing your frog. Is this where you got your sniped audio?
Hi Teddy, yes I did. It's here in this video: ua-cam.com/video/mdr5HZZRaTc/v-deo.html
Oh, it may have only the calculation of the resistance of these bars in comparison to the copper bars which come with the cells...
I’m not sure your collection of lugs but if I had a spare smaller lug, I would drill out the hole enlarging it to fit the electrical post.
One more thing I would do… I would at least double layer the heat shrink tubing over those lugs. That tubing is Very thin and can be damaged easily. I’m a fan of isolation. Only MY opinion 🙂
You should be using a 70mm crimp. Your lugs must be crap. Buy cabec lugs - they fit perfectly with 70mm double insulated welding cable.
I hoped u would have a shunt for each battery to see if the discharge is even!
Every BMS has their own shunt, so yes. The one at the top will show the overall SOC and condition of all batteries.
I see a new test video: resistance testing and crappy crimp dies! (heh, I have the same crimper....70 is too large...) Distance in measurement of Time? Hahah, this is what we do in Texas!
Some of the dies seem way off with this crimper, other work perfectly. It was $45, right? 😂
Hey whats the wire cutter tool called? I didnt see the whole video if you mentioned its name. I appreciate if you can share its Name and model type.
i used the 50mm size on a 70mm cable too. I feel the crimp looks more like yours at 70mm 😅. I get all the way no wrinkles. seems strong but i will like a method to find how to test it if it's good enough. I don't have something to push 200A and see if it's heats up
depending on brand of lug i have found i normally go one size die down. even though i only buy quality thick lugs i find sometimes they are a tad loose. the other thing to note is some wire is not the full mm2 also.
Refreshing Andy when you don't scrimp too much on the expletives. At 2:50 I approve of those buss bars and insulating stand-offs too, Must be good for 1500 amps and 5KV eh? And at 8:45, I was wondering if you have any thoughts on using anti-corrosion compounds like Penatrox in crimp lugs? I know it's primarily intended mainly for Aluminum to Copper crimps but on high amp connections I often used it on copper as well.
Also, I seem to recall Burndy instructions recommending stripped conductors be wire brushed clean prior to crimping for both AU and CU to remove hard corrosion.
At 9:45 I like the look of your crimp with the 50mm die better, as I seem to recall crimping cables around 4-0 seemed to compress more using the half-round Burndy lugs and the old 'HyPress', but dies for larger conductors, say 650MCM to 1000MCM, I recall being Hexagonal and I seem to recall that crimps often looked under-compressed, similar to what you have there.
Thanks Jack!
I know this two years later... but I always crimp one way and then turn it 60* (next notch) and crimp again. if it doesn't feel tight then I go one size smaller and just give it a kiss.
The die used to crimp a lug in a wire is sized by the wires gauge and tubing thickness used to make the lug. In the good old USA the best lugs are UL listed. Dies should be selected to match the lug manufacturers specs and the wire diameter. There is wire that is compact stranded, Class K stranding, Welding wire that may not be standard AWG copper diameter. Then if you wdd in the Chinese produced metric wire and cheap thin lug tubing, the problem becomes worse.
Thanks Randy,
Both cable and lugs are Australian standards approved, so this time I didn't buy cheap with either...
The die is from China though 😉
The crimper and lugs must fit together maybe with some extra work on the dies and then it’s not a problem when they come from China,
Hey almost everything is coming from there,and like everywhere you have good ones and bad ones….iphone😮
Nice job
hi Andy what type of cable is that it looks really flexible and where do you buy it from , I need something like this for my van
Wow your in Queensland nice. It rains allot there sometimes you get 2Meter high flood lol. We traveled all around Australia in 2019/2020 and really liked cairns 😊
Why are you using lugs with solder windows in them?
Hey Andy..plenty of welding supply shops in Ipswich that will sell 25mm² to 120mm² cable and lugs..there often the longer lug that you want and I find them cheaper then electrical stores
Hi Andy, love your videos and I sure you bring a smile to many faces. I'm down in Port Stephens NSW and was wondering where you buy your lugs from as they look very good quality.
Cheers
Hi, I think your press tool numbering is intended for Al ends, but you use Cu ends, and there the conversion of 50 Al is 70 Cu, 70 Al is 95 Cu
Peter
The video i was looking for. Just started to buy all those tools (hydraulic crimper) i need…
I got one of the cheapo 10 ton crimpers and it just couldn't do any big terminals (pretty much nothing happened when pumping). Either it was a faulty one, or just can't handle the big ones (got a refund). I then got the 16 ton version which is much better for big terminals (just did some 70mm ones), but only has dies for down to 16mm.
When using the correct lugs, cable and die combination, one crimp is all you should need to get proper termination the first time every time. Multi-crimping may yield worse long-term results from over-working the copper, possibly breaking some strands and work-hardening others.
Well, in the switchboard company I used to work they hade extra long lugs and we crimped them 3 times. You can only overwork the material if you crimp them several times and from different angles, so they get squished back and forward.
Connect the smart shunt directly to the busbar no cable needed in the victron lynx systems the shunt is the connection between the NEG battery side and the NEG consumer side.
You gotta love this Hydraulic crimpers. I have one, and use it a lot. Nevertheless I am not an expert, still on the begining of the learning curve. Love those thick cables too... Good work and waiting to see those shelves populated and storing Poooowaaaaa!!! 🤤🤤
No round file to expand a lug's hole? Should be the same thickness between those sizes so no loss.
Very nice video. I wanted to get the 304ah eve cells shipped to the Uk, 32 of them but the postage is almost the same price as the 32 cells lol. How is the postage like in Australia?
I have to ask about the shunt if it was 100 amp and you had 300 amp battery with that be OK or with the batteries blow up that shunt
When I need 4-6 connectors, I buy the box of 25. The box is cheaper, and then I always wind up with extra connectors that (of course) are never needed. But overall, it is cheaper than all the extra time and trips to get "just one more".
I'm in the energy field. We pull test every batch of crimps. I suggest you do the same. Looks will not tell the story. A 2/0 cable correctly crimped should with stand 1200 lbs of pulling force. If it doesn't, it's crimped wrong. Every size cable is different. Look up the rating for each size.
Are you originally from Denmark by any chance?
yay oh i missed some !!!!!
Andi, where do you get that nice lugs? Ive been using Jaycar ones and they terrible to put the cables in it. They don't have that nice angled edges like yours do. Cheers mate
Do you ever consider finger grease Andy? Is it really an issue on busbars, crimps and cables. Should we really use gloves? What do people think?
Thumbs up and subscribed! Is 50mm is what for sae please?
1/0
What was wrong with using 8mm mdf for the shelf’s?
Sag over time with weight, especially if happen to get moist.
@@DaleKlein what about 8mm plywood, I just think aluminum is a pricy overkill. But Andy does not skimp I see
@@pmacgowan Some folks recommended plywood, which should not sag as much. But technically combustible and thicker to not sag. 8mm 1/4 inch aluminum plate with lexan on top of that is sure very nice. No skimp Andy!
Crimped connections loosen up over time and usage with thermal expansion and contraction, soldered is best IMO, but you can crimp and solder those, just dont use plumbing flux....
No, solder introduces more problems than it solves, damage to the insulation from heat transfer, solder wicking up the cable and creating a hard point making the cable prone to breakage, soldered joints are actually specifically not to be used under screw terminals due to the effects of thermal contraction and expansion introduced by the lead tin. A copper lug on copper cable will have the same thermal expansion
@@nicholaskeur I was wondering why someone wouldn't just crimp and then solder to be sure but the thermal difference makes sense.
Four is never enough...
... Langlöcher parallel zur langen Seite ins Plexi wg. Dehnung/Schrumpfung bei Temperaturwechsel ...
111321/1357h PST 🇺🇸 111421/0757h Brisbane 🇦🇺 Guten Morgan , Herr Andy. Danke schon. The acrylic sheet idea ist gut. My steel cabinet is small and white 5mm cutting board was used. It’s strong and no metal was required under it. Have a nice day ahead und 73s…
time?uh the prison colony would be covered with tally’s as in dark dungeons😊
Hi, the krimping tool is not the Problem.
The Ring Logs are. There are different Brands off Ring Logs and the have a different Material thinknes.
So normal you Need a krinper thats Match your brand Ring log.
Never heard off that before. These are the really good and thick lugs so they should work. It's the cheap die...
@@OffGridGarageAustraliathere are also dy‘s for Alu ring Logs and they are always bigger.
Is it that you ring lugs walls are too thin, I don’t think the dies are the problem.
Aust post has been really bad lately 1 month to deliver 50 km away but order something from China two weeks later here it is
You should be cutting off a little bit more insulation before putting the lug on. When the lug is on you should see about 1-2mm of copper at the back of the lug rather than the lug being right up against the insulation
Having the Gap you speak of helps me every once in awhile because I can cut the shrink wrap off and see inside to monitor how much corrosion is going on. This was useful when I had lead batteries but now I don't see the point because I'm using lithium and none of my cables are having any corrosion problems anymore.
@@SiriusSolar the other reason to do it that is that when you bend the cable, it isn't levering against the insulation and pulling the strands out of the lug
@@matthewcodlin1387 ah good thinking!
That cable is amazing. Great quality
Thanks Andy, (need to update your subscriber count on the wall)
I'll do at 21.000 again 😉
Sick of hearing about how brilliant your weather is and how hot and how much your generating lol
At least the rain is good for your frogs, which I'm missing. My frogs are all hibernating 🐸
As said, I always use a slightly smaller die to ensure proper crimping.
Poor Chris poor Chris. I know how you must feel I grew up in a cold area but have since moved to hawaii. I'm always shocked when I'm browsing Facebook and everyone starts complaining about the weather. I've been here so long I forgot what winter is!
10:11 The pressing result also depends on the material thickness of the cable lugs. With thinner wall thicknesses, the pressure is not as strong as with a thicker wall thickness. Unfortunately there are many differences in the cable lugs. Always depends on the manufacturer. You can compensate for this with smaller crimping inserts, as you have already shown correctly.
Time is the more important part of distance. The speed of driving 50K thru town or 50K on a good highway or in the bush will be very different. But if you know the trip will take 30 minutes you can plan your day, whether that means you will travel 25K thru the city or 75K to reach the city.
I hope Will is watching to see quality work and Australian sunshine 🌞ps get extra lugs in case u fck them up
That YQK tool is such rubbish. The anvils do not do a proper job. Full marks for re-crimping with a smaller 50mm die. The tool must be held in a bench vice. Some of these tube lugs have an open end in the tube tunnel so you can see that your cable is fully inserted. I would use this access as a means of feed some solder down the joint afterwards. Put solder flux on wires first and maybe solder paste to help flow. You need a gas torch as a lot of heat is needed. I think maybe cut back more insulation so you see say10mm of wire when inserted. This way you can see the solder wicking up the cable. You dont want much as it creates a solid junction with the flexible wire. Use heat shrink tube to cover the joint. BTW dont use this tool on 4mm and 6mm2 cable too small and doesnt work.
Nice!!! ...and Miss Piggy is very hot :)
You guys have lunch at night?
Yes, we always have lunch at weird times. It's Australia, mate!
2/0 isn't 70mm2...
that's when I crimp and solder the end lugs
I don't solder with high amp connections. The solder could get brittle over time and cause a hot spot in your connection.
Lee Kimberly Jones Scott Young Timothy
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You must be getting older
Every second basically!