MCB Switchboard added to solar distribution. Battery 2.0
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- Опубліковано 18 лис 2021
- Thank you so much for all your suggestions and great ideas. We had quite a few fantastic simple ideas on how to connect to the MCBs and MCCBs in the battery shelf. Your input made me think about the problems from another angle and helped solving most of the issues!
The two switchboards are now mounted in the top section of the shelf and it not only looks great but makes a lot of sense...
Thanks to Dan for sponsoring the elbow ring lugs. That is amazing!
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/ offgridgarageaustralia - Наука та технологія
I really rolled on the floor laughing.
Siemens will be overwhelmed by all the requests from outside of Germany about the mentioned air hooks.
Your humor is great.
I watch it because it's fun. It's my new TV channel :) Can't wait for the next episode, but what I was wondering is that we have seen his car, his dog, but only mentioning his wife... hmmm. Maybe he gets cold dinners and cold wife in the evening because he spend too much time with his TV show?
Thank you all, glad you go the joke(s). It's sometimes just 🤦♂️ what people suggest without thinking it through before they comment, so cannot help myself ant put it in the videos 😂
@@OffGridGarageAustralia You got good entertainment and educational values, so just waiting for the next episode. Sitting here in London and watching :)
@@TheFikotech Thank you very much!
It looks really good Andy and thanks for showing
Thank you!
Andy!!! Thank you for considering my comment. Much appreciated!
No worries!
Yeah, the good old "Siemens Lufthaken"
Works even down here. Not.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Oh, you probably got a cheap Chinese copy. The originals work great. ähhh, not
Ferrules come in different lengths, to match the depth of the set screw term point.
Depending on the depth of the box, you might have to put spacers under the DIN rail now to make sure the breaker faces protrude through the opening on the front, If it were me I would have just cut the opening so the box fits through, and secure the back box down to the shelf, then the hole box could have been set back even further. there are flush mount switchboards available as well..
Nah, they are long enough and still poking out even with the 4mm additional space now.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia All good then :)
Excellent cut Andy, great Work done
It's not straight, but shhhhhh
@@OffGridGarageAustralia 🤫🤫🤫🤫
Heya, oh yeah that starts to look very nice
✔✔☺☺☺ good job 🤔🤔 next battery compressing and flexible terminal 🤔🤔
Thank you, but none of that will happen. I just don't see the point or benefit of either.
Gruß aus Bayern, Stahlhandel Ancofer in München oder Mühlheim?
Der Witz mit den Siemens Lufthaken war gut 👍 😂
Keine Ahnung, den Zollstock habe ich schon bestimmt 30 Jahre. Ist einfach beim Umzug nach hier unten mitgekommen. Das ist er letzte den ich habe!
Nice. I like your screws used in the sheet metal as well. We built our first solar system this year, only 500w in panels and 200ah lifepo4 batteries. This test has worked so well, and answered so many questions on a small scale that we will be expanding the system over the next couple years. We do not want a grid tied system (at least not one that will feed power back into the grid,) so we are installing a manual transfer switch and will keep some circuits on solar full time with the ability to transfer back to grid power if needed. At this point I think our goal is to have approx 1500-2000w in panels and 800-1000ah in battery. This should be a nice system setup to reduce overall grid power consumption, as well as emergency power when grid goes down. We are also looking at adding a standalone system to feed a mini-split hvac system which would supply only one portion of our home. That one is several phases down our list though
Thanks so much for sharing. It's great to read about your success. And you're absolutely right, you can learn a lot from having your own system and see how it works, behaves and... fails sometime. Great work!
Andyyyyyy we ❤ you 👍
I ♥ you too, guys!
Andy, those cutouts look awesome, perfect! It's going to be an awesome and professional build, so much to learn from.
Thanks Dennis. A lot of work 🥵
Thanks Andy
Superbe réflexion ANDY, j'imagine la suite et je suis impatient de suivre le prochain épisode... ;-))
Merci beaucoup.
That’s a cool job you are doing on this project . Looks great and professional . It will take some major time to really get the battery shelf all sorted out and I’m sure we preppers will be very happy for this awesome project and the time taken to finally turn it on with the solar system for the first time with successful results . Thanks 🙏 and May the solar be with you .
Thank you very much. We 're not too far of to install the battery actually. Most mechanical issues have been solved now. I think...🤔
damn thats looking good
Thank you 😉
I enjoy your short ponderings.
You should look into my head 😲
Looking good Andy! Very professional!Top job!
Thank you.
Andy in EU we use 3 phase connecting bar. But maximum load is 100A. Personaly I like the most fork type connecting bar, because the fork is connected to the screw and you have free terminal for future use.
About fuxe box, it is misunderstanding. First I meant to rotate din rail 90°, second I thought that use want to build your own cover. Definitely your way is better.
And thank you for the video :)
Small Edit: only one problem with fuxe box I see: when you have to do something with your breakers, the box won be fixed. So it means you have to take off top cover and fix the box. But this can be easily solved by two screws on the bottom.
These are DC breakers so there is no 3 phase in this cabinet. The fork lugs you're referring too are very thin and I doubt they would have a 100A or even 250A rating.
Yes, the box is not fixed. It just sits on the shelf at the moment. I will see once the cables are connected if I need to fix the box or not. Once everything is installed I don't need to take of the cover any more. Unless I will install more breakers and then I have to take off the top anyway...
It is really coming together quite nicely. All of the idea have helped you overcome design difficulties and that is always a plus. I would love to see more video on power generation from both solar to a self made wind turbine.
The community help is great, it really helps a lot!
You can use just the fine stranded cable in connections, though you need to wrap it in a thin copper strip as per code if the lugs are not rated for fine stranded cables. We do this at my work all the time for 1500A battery connections on UPSs.
Is this the code in Australia? I never heard of wrapping a cable in foil...
Different countries, different codes.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia No, America and NEC codes. Its more of a ~20gauge copper strip that's 2cm wide than a foil that is used. We use it in all of our temp systems that use flex cabling which is fine stranded ( 250-750Kcmil wire). BTW, I am an Engineer.
Siemens Airhook... I use the 'Würth luft anker' 😂
We actually have Würth down here too. As an alternative 😁
@@OffGridGarageAustralia 👍
That was a go score, the curved Lugs. Keep up the good work.
Curved, angled, bended...
Love it, thanks Andy!
...and stick with bended, sounds better ;-)
Hahaha, thanks, Trevor.
Looking good Andy, please "earth" the Aluminum facial plate around Swithchboard when it comes to wiring it up. 👍
Yes, totally different topic. I'll talk and show this in a future video....
Keep it up Andy. Great job
Thank you.
Great work on the shelf, it's pay to have one like that
It's still a bit to go but I'm happy with the progress so far.
Nice work, professional look!
Keep up the good work. ✊
You couldn't do it without your followers. 😁
Just an observation sometimes easy to forget, don't make it too difficult to access/mount "inner" components, cells, etc, etc...
It's always nice when we have space to work.
Thank you. Exactly, showing all this and receiving feedback really helps a lot while building "the box".
The DB ... you could have just used a "flush" mounted DB ... it would have saved you cutting the frame ... left the back section off and used standoffs to secure the din rail to the font cover.
Nicely done, I like it! 🤙🏻
Thank you.
Nice job mate. Can't wait to get into my build.
Got the batteries ordered?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia not yet. They are sitting in Hong Kong according to the tracking.
Nice job
Thank you.
Oh yes......👍
Awesome
Thank you.
Sei troppo forte :) complimenti per il lavoro che stai facendo .
Yeah, I'd abandon the box myself -- it's quite a limiting factor. Turn the entire upper area there into an enclosure. If the box was larger, sure, but trying to use a box that creates too tight of a choke point just creates more problems than it solves. Breakers don't have to be up and down for what it's worth. Side runs buys you much more space and a far easier place to work.
Andy with regards to the fine stranded wire and lugs - I would agree with you, if you are using a circuit breaker which only has a screw tightening onto the strands of the wire, however in 2021 we use circuit breakers were the screw pulls a plate which distributes the strands evenly and without damaging the wire.
It definitely illegal to use fine stranded cable with screw terminals where the screw directly pushes down and may even cut off some strands.
The problem will still occur with the 'modern' clamp technology of circuit breakers and terminals if no lug or ferrule is been used. Depending on your country and local regulations it may be allowed or is illegal to use.
I would rather use a ferrule in any instance with this fine stranded wire.
can't wait for the next vid ^_^
It' there now!
Thank you.
Thumbs up and subscribed!
Awesome thank you!
Here in Aus airhooks are known as skyhooks (a music band from the 70's) I like your approach great work Andy keep it up.
Thanks Peter. I think skyhooks are more the all purpose outside model of them, while airhooks are more universal. As long as they are from Siemens, they work the same way though.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Oh! bugga, I wish I had of known that when I work for Siemens in Bayswater I could have got a few freebies lol
Cool
Those 'bended' terminals look great - your English language lecturer must be a very helpful kind of guy. More like a helpful friend than a lecturer don't you think?
These are actually angled lugs. Bent would be sideways as the ones I will now get from a sponsor. There is always something in each language which you never get right 😁
And, yes, a lot of very helpful friends here, absolutely.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia To achieve the 'angle' they were 'bent' to that shape actually.
another tip - if you look at the circuit breaker ... you will notice were the screw to tighten has a slot were you can fit a forked type busbar ...this leaves the terminal open for wires ... especially when you dont have a copper busbar between the main switch and circuit breakers and you are using a multi layer DB.
This slot will fit a forked cable lug which is not rated the same as the bus bar of the breaker itself. This is for additional connections but not to be used for the full rated power of the breaker.
You can get 2p 16mm2 Busbars for that breakers on Ali, should be good for 80Amps. Using them with the tomzn breakers for my dc distribution Pannels.
I'll have a look, thank you!
Splitting the circuit breaker box with aluminum on the sides is not to code. Wires touching the aluminum can abrade insulation and cause a short. Would be better to flush mount the box and run wires with conduit through the back. Although, I don't think a plastic circuit breaker box for DC is to code either. Uncovered buss bars and terminals are not either.....so down the rabbit hole we go. Be careful with the exposed aluminum and keeping wires away.
There is an insulator material inside the box wich covers the tiny AL areas all around.
Everything else will be shrouded as I have explained many times...
No worries, left and right are on opposit sides anyways in Australia.
So i wish you more luck getting the same switchboard again than me. I bought three pieces (smaller ones for 8 modules), that were available and several weeks tried again and again... and again to get the needed fourth one, until i noticed, that Praktiker had obviously no more of these ABB boxes available in any size... And other Brands look very similar, but you do not know if it really fits the hole...
The switchboards are standard here at Bunnings and many places online. That's not a problem.
I thought Praktiker does not exist any more?
These switchboards WERE standart here as well... And you are right. Praktiker does not exist any more in Germany. But here in Bulgaria they did not vanish. And if i am not confusing something, they are in Romania as well. Some years passed, since i travelled last time in between...
Super Video. Mal eine Frage woher können sie Deutsch. Ich finde es echt genial. Diese kleinen gimmicks. Mach weiter so. Grüße aus Niederbayern.
Guck doch mal meinen anderen Kanal 'Living Down Under'...
Hi, Are You planning any fuses for each individual battery pack ? Or maybe only those heavy duty brakers on the side of the shelf ? I'm having trouble to find the heavy current braker which will have some kind of over current protection build in. In most cases those are only heavy duty switches which are ok to disconnect hi currents, but You still have to activate them by hand. Can You elaborate more about it ?
Thanks.
The breakers will isolate each battery bank individually before they connect to the vertical busbar.
When we talk about high currents here, each breaker will trip at 80A. That's what I will set them to. Is that a high current?
I'm using the NOARK DC Breakers fir this job, 100A for each battery bank and 250A main breaker for the whole battery.
It is absolutely OK to have them manually reconnect again. If they really trip, you want to make ensure nothing is wrong or any fault has been cleared before you turn them back on. You don't want them to turn on automatically at all!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia thanks for an answer. Exactly those are currents i was talking about. And i've seen that a lot of brakers which are sold, are simple high current switches. So they are not tripping by itself due to overload (overcurrent), they are simply capable of disconnect high current when You want to manually do it. This way they act more like emergency turnoff rather than automatic protection. And sometimes they are even sold in this molded case, which makes them hard to distinguish from automatic overload protection. Can You give a hint about where best to buy those NOARK DC Brakers ?
@@wojciechwrona4663 Sorry, you need to google that for your local area. If you're here in AU, I can give you a link though where to buy.
Keep them coming, not sure if I just like your accent or what your building 🤣 jk great show as always.
Hahaha, thank you!
What accent by the way???
@@OffGridGarageAustralia 😆😆😆😆 good one !!
yay where did the big busbar come from ?
I bought it from a company in Brisbane.
ua-cam.com/video/6y_0gHGni60/v-deo.html
@@OffGridGarageAustralia thank you
Yay am first to comment lol, keep the video coming. Also can you add a can-bus bms option to your jk-bms to your victron setup? I’ll like to see how you do it so I can do it in our build also 😊
Thank you. Yes, CAN BUS, RS485... we will look into this after the battery is in place. So much more to explore...
I hope Andy that you will screw those plastic boxes to some place..to that acrylic material..because now all those boxes are held only by two small screws ..and that is not good at all. also check your circuit breakers inside those boxes and you might see that they moved a bit back..not sure how problematic that will be..but better to check it..
They sit flush on the aluminium sheet. The two front bolt really only holding the cover and lid as they would do if the switchboard is wall mounted.
jig saw, ich habe zuerst chick saw verstanden. Wie geil ist das denn, wie macht das Huhn, wie macht die Säge ?! Passt also auch . . .
Jetzt hoer aber auf! 😁
What breakers are you using for the batteries that goes through the side? I can't find them on your site and they appear to be 250 A or so din breakers. Looking for something similar that isn't like $800 each!
Do you have a link for that breaker box?
It's on my website, John.
off-grid-garage.com/electric-installation/
Hättest noch links und rechts ne Zunge stehen lassen sollen mit je einem Loch anstatt ein ganzes Rechteck auszuschneiden. Aber leider schon ums Eck. Sonst finde ich es einfach nur geil dir zuzuschauen wie es vorangeht, mach weiter und prösterle ;)
Das hatte ich erst ueberlegt. es haette aber keinen Unterschied gemacht oder Vorteil gebracht. Die beiden Schrauben halten ja nur das Frontcover mit Deckel. Also genauso wie bei einer Wandmontage des Kastens. Der Kasten selbst sitzt ja flach auf dem Aluboden des Regals, hat also nichts zu halten. Die dicken Kabel werden fuer weitere Stabilitaet sorgen 😂
DO you think the SJ BMS ($180) is worth the $70 difference for the active balancing as compared to the QUCC BMS ($110)?? thanks,
Yes, 100%. Not just because of the balancing function but also of the separate port ability to turn off just charging if a cell has high voltage. The QUC always creates total chaos when it turns off because it turns everything off.
Good stuff Andy! Say… isn’t it time to update your sub count? 😉
Thanks Frank. I'll wait until 21k or so. I need an electronic board or so, ey...
Time machine
Hello. i have a question. does touching 16s (52volts) lifepo4 pack can cause Electrocution if you touch the terminal? thanks
No, not at all.
It would be cool if that panel was plexiglass so all the gear inside could still be admired.
I have all the equipment here. Including blue LED strips... but...
Victron 66 volts limit vs 18 battery pack ?
Can you just lower the shelf so the box fits?
There would be not enough space for the battery compartment. It's unfortunately all the space I have. I tried different settings and showed them in a previous video ua-cam.com/video/S2_4X3Jje0Q/v-deo.html
Ich mach das mal in Deutsch da ich nicht weiß ob ich das in Englisch so erklären kann.
Warum muss der Kasten vorne und hinten an der Aluplatte anliegen? Die zusätzliche Materialstärke des Aluminium und das "nicht-ineinander" schieben von Kasten und Deckel lassen die Sicherungen nach hinten wandern. Es könnte sein das dadurch ein Spalt an den Sicherungen offen bleibt da die normalerweise Bündig mit der Frontplatte in dem Deckel abschließen.
Ich sehe nicht ganz den Nachteil wenn die Aluplatte einen Ausschnitt in Größe der Aussenmaße des Schaltkasten bekommt. So könnte man den Schaltksten auch noch weiter nach innen schieben bis kaum noch ein Überstand an der Aluplatte entsteht.
MfG
Nein, da ist kein Spalt. Ich habe verschiedene Automaten getestet und alle stehen nach vorne raus. Wenn nun das 3mm Alu dazwischen kommt, rutschen die Automaten ~4mm nach hinten. Das ist ueberhaupt kein Problem, da sie immer noch nach vorn herausstehen.
Ich habe das so gebaut, weil nun der ganze Kasten sich selbst haelt und ich keine weitere Befestigung benoetige.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Na dann hast du ja an alles gedacht. Super weiter so. 👍
2 pole insulated busbar may work for the double pole circuit breakers. The max current rating of the busbar may not be suitable though. 63A & 80A seem to be max current rating. A few can get up to 100A. Those current ratings are for AC not DC as well.
Yeah, they won't work for these sort of breakers.
I wonder why this sort of unit (the one you are building) is not available as an “off the shelf” purchase
That is all because every country has different regulations. There are battery shelves and battery storage solution you can buy and also think about the server racks many people use.
I think the heat theory on the stranded wire into the circuit breaker is BS. The distance is so short... Would be a good test/video idea. I also think you should start your own line of Andy's Safety Shoes - "great for heavy ground work or climbing around on a roof"
If you think a regulation is BS or not makes no difference as it is still a regulation. For me it makes perfectly sense to use a lug or ferrule with this fine stranded wire. It ensures that all strands have good contact and no hotspots occur. We're talkig about energy distribution here not just a light on a 12V battery for a camping trip.
Sorry Andy wrong video
cool! those are nice big aluminum plates! it is fun to work with thick plates of aluminum. One question is will you be installing an equipment grounding conductor to all parts of the frame and panels of the shelf? Will you be bonding it to the ground of the AC side and the negative of the main bussbar? (the horizontal bussbar on the top shelf)
I'm thinking about the grounding for a long time. As I will have several Al sheet around the shelf, they all need to be grounded somehow. There are sections in the AS/NZS Wiring standard where it is allowed to use star washers for grounding metal which may be exposed to dangerous voltages. Unfortunately, it is just a guide with no real examples when, if and how to do that.
For this reason, I will probably ground them all individually with short cables to a single ground point inside the shelf. Still thinking 💭
@@OffGridGarageAustralia yea the cables would be the safest, though star washers are probably plenty good enough, how will your ground point be made? a large threaded rod or some type of bussbar or terminal block?
@@SuperBrainAK I'm not sure yet tbh.
Ich finde eure Regeln in Australien für Elektro Installationen sehr ähnlich zu Deutschland
Ja, sie sind es in der Tat.
I see now. your breakers are dual breakers not all singled so my idea wont work in this case with the bus bar and cut tabs. In future might be better to get single breakers so you can have all pos one side and neg the other. Or the staggered breakers.
Ah, was this comment from you... never mind. these breakers are always coming as 2 pole isolators and they have not staggered terminals. Maybe I should look at some other brands for these DC breakers to see if there is anything available. But I really like the NOARK stuff...