The factory EQ lives in the amplifier. That means it is internal to the pushbutton trims and in the external amplifier for the touchscreen trims. A clean signal can be found out of the touchscreen head unit, so an aftermarket amplifier can solve the issue.
A fix 82 or 86 depending on your setup would work a lot better for flattening the signal than trying to adjust it in the tun software for the amp. That way you can start with a flat signal and adjust how you want it from there.
I am adding this to my current set up, my old school art series amps are finally dying, selling out but happy to do so. Been a JL guy from the start and adding to my 82. Just saw this for the first time in a stereo store, its a different time old school enthusiasts..
You flattened the curve nicely. At what volume level did you flatten it at and doesn't the factory radio change the curve as the volume changes? If so do you no longer use the radio volume control? How is that addressed with these devices if the curve changes as the volume changes? No longer use the head unit volume control?
I test vehicles at several volume levels to observe frequency response at various volume levels. In the vehicles I've used this method on, the changes were minimal. If the frequency response changes with volume, you have two options. If the change is drastic, you should fix the factory volume and use a DSP volume knob. Most are slight changes and you can find a happy medium.
Good info! I noticed you are using an external RTA analyzer because the JL doesn't have that built in. I am looking at the Audio Control Amp D800.4 that has the RTA built in along with the 30 band eq, etc. Have you played with the Audio Control DSP with real time RTA built in? Seems like it would be an all in one. But the JL has the iphone/ipad AP and also looks like a more full featured user interface.
Audio Control released their new DSP amplifiers at the same time as JL did with the VXi. I haven't played with the Audio Control but i've been watching their release into the industry. Both products have different advantages and features. The networking capability of the VXi is unique, with up to 50 channels of DSP networked through a single hub. The Audio Control product was specifically targeted for OEM integration (which Audio Control has done well in for decades). I think they are both great for the mobile audio market, and consumers have more choices than before.
Awesome demonstration and nice tune, bro. Thank you very much for sharing. I have a question for you regarding that Accord head unit, although I'm pretty sure I know the answer because you didn't mention this - but - I was wondering if you could confirm - Does the equalization curve that the head unit outputs change as the volume gets turned up or down, or does it hold steady?
Hi, great video! I see you use a Sound Devices USBPre to connect the JL amp to the laptop for the signal RTA measurement. Are there similar devices to the USBPre you would recommend? I am a newbie who is tring to perform first measurements and would like to stay fairly cheap.
Any USB soundcard or computer with a line level audio input would work in lieu of the unit I was using. As always, be careful of the signal level into the soundcard to avoid clipping.
Hi Richard, I am at the start of a similar path, but was going to use the speaker level outputs as my inputs. But you have done something I was wondering about, I.e. adding the line level RCA’s from the preamp output. Do you show how to do this. How easy is it... I was thinking it would be pretty tricky to find the lines or tracks
Hi there. I have another video that is just about using an RTA to measure frequency response and that includes speaker level outputs through a LOC to reduce voltage. Is that what you are looking for? Can you clarify your last sentence about "lines or tracks"? I'm happy to answer whatever questions you have once I fully understand what the questions are. Cheers!
@@richardvedvik979 hi Richard, thanks. I have truRTA and a oscilloscope meter and was planning these measurements (my 1st time, so useful vid). What I meant about lines/tracks, was I thought you had put in your own home made RCA line level outputs by soldering into the correct points post pre-amp but before the amp section. I was thinking about this, but not very familiar with doing it, and indeed I have 6 channels at the amp stage, so presumably this channels at the pre-amp stage... maybe there is some earlier point in the circuit with a simple stereo signal, but maybe this is buried in some solid state chips... so could be really tricky to do..
@@idiocratease In the original Accord factory head unit, I did mod the factory radio and remove the internal amplifier to generate a line level signal. I've also swapped to a premium touchscreen head unit with a balanced output (from another year/model). But this effort is independent of those mods. My Instructable is useful for high and low signals and goes into more detail with connection methods. With some vehicles, there is a digital signal to the factory amp that you won't decode, so you're forced to use high level signals. This method of "seeing' the response is still useful, you just add a LOC. I like the David Navone series of LOC.
Happy to help! JL Audio has oneline training for their amplifiers using Tun but I understand that a personal review can be helpful. You can email me through this channel.
William Averill shelving is an eq that acts like a HPF or LPF. Just another tool in the toolbox. Attenuates or boosts above or below the setpoint instead of a peak or valley.
I'm getting low volume white noise from my system. I've tried LITERALLY EVERYTHING to try to diagnose it...I need to keep my factory headunit so do I need a line output converter in conjunction with this amp or can I just tap into the speaker level outputs from the headunit and go directly into the vxi800? I read somewhere that you need to "correct" the signal with a loc and then "tune" that signal with the vxi? Is this true? Thanks for your time. Much appreciated! *Subbed
I have a 13 accord. Can I use high level inputs from front and rear into the JL VXi to tune it and send the signal to another non-jl amp for the subwoofer?
Most of the touchscreen models have a clean output before the factory amp. The trick is to snag the audio signal before the factory amp as is leaves the head unit. The site for access to honda service manuals, wiring diagrams, harness diagrams is techinfo.honda.com. I just pay for a day or two and download everything needed for the 2013-2018 Accords. I don't have Civic specific diagrams. What are you looking to "tune"? Are you running aftermarket DSP and external amplification and speakers? More info is needed.
@@richardvedvik979 thank you kindly for replying. I have a JL Audio VXI 1000/5 with Tun software as well running Focal KX2s. When I said tune, I meant doing the same thing you're doing in Tun by flattening the signal. However, since last night, I took some advice from your video and played around with the parametric equalizer myself and the sound seems much better. Thank you for this amazing video!!!
@@fatpot Gotcha, good deal. You have a good starting point for sure. Measuring the factory radio output is step one. You need to know what you're working with.
@@richardvedvik979 I have a fix82 in an 18 Honda Ridgeline and Im trying to regain my center channel info for text, android auto voice etc. I spoke with JL techs and they suggested a separate amp for the center info. I mention that my fix82 is picking up of the factory amp outputs and asked if going to the factory head unit outputs would work. Their guess was the the factory pre outs were digital. Do you have any experience or insight about that before I go digging around again? Thanks!
@@rpstube it does appear the 2018+ models have a digital (optical) connection between the head unit and factory amp. I haven't seen anyone successfully intercept and decode that signal.
After you do this, do you setup a mic in the car and EQ the car interior as well with pink noise? If I got a USBPre, what would be a reasonably priced mic to use with it for eq? Could I use an Audyssey mic from my Integra? I also have an auto eq'ing mic from some JBL LSR Studio speakers
Yes, I do use a mic and RTA to adjust for the acoustical response in the car. Those are separate EQ channels (output EQ) from the pre-out EQ I am using to flatten response. I use a few of the Behringer ECM8000 ($50), or you can use the Dayton Audio mic (with our without USB). The USBPre is expensive and there are other PC interfaces you can find and use for less. The Audyssey mic or JBL mic is paired with specifically tuned software, and you'd need a way to compare and categorize the mics performance prior to trusting it outside of its intended application.
@@richardvedvik979 Thanx for the info! Would ARTA work for this? This will be a "few times" deal for me at the most. Would I search for "usb mic interface"? I did not see EQ's for the out puts when I was running the software in simulation mode, and that was not clear in the online manual. Can you tell me where to find those eq settings? I'll be using SPDIF in from an Android Headunit. Do I still need to do this input analysis like you did here? Would I still access the JL DSP with the pre outs?
@@lesgarten The pre-out EQ is what i'm adjusting in the video. You won't need to do any input analysis when using SPDIF. You will just route the signal from the SPDIF to all of the channels (left to left channels, right to right channels, and left + right to sub). The Dayton Audio UMM-6 is a USB measurement mic for $100. If you want to use your phone for quicker/cheaper measurements, you can use the Dayton Audio iMM-6. It requires your phone have a mic/headphone jack and you should run a good RTA app (Audio Tools or Audio Tool) are the Apple or Android apps I recommend.
@@richardvedvik979 Hi Richard, I just got a USBPre 1.5. For looping from Out to In for Sound Card Calibration, you use the PC Audio outs into the Tape Monitor INs? I'm gathering this stuff because I want to buy the same amp that you have here. I bought the TrueRTA 1/24 and have DL'd the REW software and got a Dayton MIC w/custom calibration.
@@lesgarten , Nice selections. Yes, we use the PC Audio outs and the Tape Ins, both 1 and 2 (for left and right). TrueAudio lets you bounce between Left and Right.
When tuning the car we want to start with the flattest response possible. This is because we have to understand the difference between what we can change with an EQ or Time Alignment and what we cannot. We also want to be careful of gain relationships and the gain structure of the system. With a DSP we have 3 or 4 levels of gain - the source output, the DSP input, the DSP output, and the amplifier input. When we add boost we adversely affect the gain structure. When dealing with an OEM system, we want to ensure we get the flattest and lowest distortion source possible. That way when we see issues when measuring the acoustic response in the car, we know it's attributed to the vehicle acoustics or speaker frequency response. Simply put, starting with a flat sources helps us make informed decisions when tuning. The trick in this video is to look at the electrical signal and verify what you're starting with. The acoustical signal, measured with microphones, includes many factors including phase interference (constructive and destructive), polar response, reflections, acoustic resonance, structural resonance, cabin modes, and cabin gain.
Richard Vedvik Thank you. I forgot that gain is no issue because you use an external amp anyway and understanding what’s going on later on is much more important. 👍
I like the opening splash screen. Cool video
The factory EQ lives in the amplifier. That means it is internal to the pushbutton trims and in the external amplifier for the touchscreen trims. A clean signal can be found out of the touchscreen head unit, so an aftermarket amplifier can solve the issue.
Badass Video brother !!!!
A fix 82 or 86 depending on your setup would work a lot better for flattening the signal than trying to adjust it in the tun software for the amp. That way you can start with a flat signal and adjust how you want it from there.
I am adding this to my current set up, my old school art series amps are finally dying, selling out but happy to do so. Been a JL guy from the start and adding to my 82. Just saw this for the first time in a stereo store, its a different time old school enthusiasts..
You flattened the curve nicely. At what volume level did you flatten it at and doesn't the factory radio change the curve as the volume changes? If so do you no longer use the radio volume control? How is that addressed with these devices if the curve changes as the volume changes? No longer use the head unit volume control?
I test vehicles at several volume levels to observe frequency response at various volume levels. In the vehicles I've used this method on, the changes were minimal. If the frequency response changes with volume, you have two options. If the change is drastic, you should fix the factory volume and use a DSP volume knob. Most are slight changes and you can find a happy medium.
Good info! I noticed you are using an external RTA analyzer because the JL doesn't have that built in. I am looking at the Audio Control Amp D800.4 that has the RTA built in along with the 30 band eq, etc. Have you played with the Audio Control DSP with real time RTA built in? Seems like it would be an all in one. But the JL has the iphone/ipad AP and also looks like a more full featured user interface.
Audio Control released their new DSP amplifiers at the same time as JL did with the VXi. I haven't played with the Audio Control but i've been watching their release into the industry. Both products have different advantages and features. The networking capability of the VXi is unique, with up to 50 channels of DSP networked through a single hub. The Audio Control product was specifically targeted for OEM integration (which Audio Control has done well in for decades). I think they are both great for the mobile audio market, and consumers have more choices than before.
Awesome demonstration and nice tune, bro. Thank you very much for sharing. I have a question for you regarding that Accord head unit, although I'm pretty sure I know the answer because you didn't mention this - but - I was wondering if you could confirm - Does the equalization curve that the head unit outputs change as the volume gets turned up or down, or does it hold steady?
Hi, I've tested it at several volume levels and it doesn't change. It is a fixed EQ to assist active noise cancellation (ANC), not for sound quality.
@@richardvedvik979 Thanks for the response, and again for the video. This is great information for Honda owners and for car audio enthusiasts!
Hi, great video! I see you use a Sound Devices USBPre to connect the JL amp to the laptop for the signal RTA measurement. Are there similar devices to the USBPre you would recommend? I am a newbie who is tring to perform first measurements and would like to stay fairly cheap.
Any USB soundcard or computer with a line level audio input would work in lieu of the unit I was using. As always, be careful of the signal level into the soundcard to avoid clipping.
Hi Richard, I am at the start of a similar path, but was going to use the speaker level outputs as my inputs. But you have done something I was wondering about, I.e. adding the line level RCA’s from the preamp output. Do you show how to do this. How easy is it... I was thinking it would be pretty tricky to find the lines or tracks
Hi there. I have another video that is just about using an RTA to measure frequency response and that includes speaker level outputs through a LOC to reduce voltage. Is that what you are looking for? Can you clarify your last sentence about "lines or tracks"? I'm happy to answer whatever questions you have once I fully understand what the questions are. Cheers!
ua-cam.com/video/Kva4YA19P7M/v-deo.html
@@richardvedvik979 hi Richard, thanks. I have truRTA and a oscilloscope meter and was planning these measurements (my 1st time, so useful vid). What I meant about lines/tracks, was I thought you had put in your own home made RCA line level outputs by soldering into the correct points post pre-amp but before the amp section. I was thinking about this, but not very familiar with doing it, and indeed I have 6 channels at the amp stage, so presumably this channels at the pre-amp stage... maybe there is some earlier point in the circuit with a simple stereo signal, but maybe this is buried in some solid state chips... so could be really tricky to do..
@@idiocratease In the original Accord factory head unit, I did mod the factory radio and remove the internal amplifier to generate a line level signal. I've also swapped to a premium touchscreen head unit with a balanced output (from another year/model). But this effort is independent of those mods. My Instructable is useful for high and low signals and goes into more detail with connection methods. With some vehicles, there is a digital signal to the factory amp that you won't decode, so you're forced to use high level signals. This method of "seeing' the response is still useful, you just add a LOC. I like the David Navone series of LOC.
I have a Vxi 400/4 , want to make a few bucks remote tuning and helping please lmk
Happy to help! JL Audio has oneline training for their amplifiers using Tun but I understand that a personal review can be helpful. You can email me through this channel.
@@richardvedvik979 once I get the umik-1 I'll contact you
Great video. I'm getting ready to set up my vxi too. What is the purpose of shelving? I've never seen that before.
William Averill shelving is an eq that acts like a HPF or LPF. Just another tool in the toolbox. Attenuates or boosts above or below the setpoint instead of a peak or valley.
I'm getting low volume white noise from my system. I've tried LITERALLY EVERYTHING to try to diagnose it...I need to keep my factory headunit so do I need a line output converter in conjunction with this amp or can I just tap into the speaker level outputs from the headunit and go directly into the vxi800?
I read somewhere that you need to "correct" the signal with a loc and then "tune" that signal with the vxi? Is this true?
Thanks for your time. Much appreciated! *Subbed
Hello Richard , what track do you use to test the output?
Sorry for the delay. Pink noise is used for octave band measurements. I refer to the 2016 IASCA Reference CD or Autosound 2000 Disc 102.
I have a 13 accord. Can I use high level inputs from front and rear into the JL VXi to tune it and send the signal to another non-jl amp for the subwoofer?
Good sir, is there any chance you can tune a 2016+ Honda Civic Touring? I'm lost lol
Most of the touchscreen models have a clean output before the factory amp. The trick is to snag the audio signal before the factory amp as is leaves the head unit. The site for access to honda service manuals, wiring diagrams, harness diagrams is techinfo.honda.com. I just pay for a day or two and download everything needed for the 2013-2018 Accords. I don't have Civic specific diagrams.
What are you looking to "tune"? Are you running aftermarket DSP and external amplification and speakers? More info is needed.
@@richardvedvik979 thank you kindly for replying. I have a JL Audio VXI 1000/5 with Tun software as well running Focal KX2s. When I said tune, I meant doing the same thing you're doing in Tun by flattening the signal. However, since last night, I took some advice from your video and played around with the parametric equalizer myself and the sound seems much better. Thank you for this amazing video!!!
@@fatpot Gotcha, good deal. You have a good starting point for sure. Measuring the factory radio output is step one. You need to know what you're working with.
@@richardvedvik979 I have a fix82 in an 18 Honda Ridgeline and Im trying to regain my center channel info for text, android auto voice etc. I spoke with JL techs and they suggested a separate amp for the center info. I mention that my fix82 is picking up of the factory amp outputs and asked if going to the factory head unit outputs would work. Their guess was the the factory pre outs were digital. Do you have any experience or insight about that before I go digging around again? Thanks!
@@rpstube it does appear the 2018+ models have a digital (optical) connection between the head unit and factory amp. I haven't seen anyone successfully intercept and decode that signal.
After you do this, do you setup a mic in the car and EQ the car interior as well with pink noise?
If I got a USBPre, what would be a reasonably priced mic to use with it for eq? Could I use an Audyssey mic from my Integra? I also have an auto eq'ing mic from some JBL LSR Studio speakers
Yes, I do use a mic and RTA to adjust for the acoustical response in the car. Those are separate EQ channels (output EQ) from the pre-out EQ I am using to flatten response.
I use a few of the Behringer ECM8000 ($50), or you can use the Dayton Audio mic (with our without USB). The USBPre is expensive and there are other PC interfaces you can find and use for less.
The Audyssey mic or JBL mic is paired with specifically tuned software, and you'd need a way to compare and categorize the mics performance prior to trusting it outside of its intended application.
@@richardvedvik979 Thanx for the info! Would ARTA work for this? This will be a "few times" deal for me at the most. Would I search for "usb mic interface"? I did not see EQ's for the out puts when I was running the software in simulation mode, and that was not clear in the online manual. Can you tell me where to find those eq settings?
I'll be using SPDIF in from an Android Headunit. Do I still need to do this input analysis like you did here? Would I still access the JL DSP with the pre outs?
@@lesgarten The pre-out EQ is what i'm adjusting in the video. You won't need to do any input analysis when using SPDIF. You will just route the signal from the SPDIF to all of the channels (left to left channels, right to right channels, and left + right to sub).
The Dayton Audio UMM-6 is a USB measurement mic for $100. If you want to use your phone for quicker/cheaper measurements, you can use the Dayton Audio iMM-6. It requires your phone have a mic/headphone jack and you should run a good RTA app (Audio Tools or Audio Tool) are the Apple or Android apps I recommend.
@@richardvedvik979 Hi Richard, I just got a USBPre 1.5. For looping from Out to In for Sound Card Calibration, you use the PC Audio outs into the Tape Monitor INs?
I'm gathering this stuff because I want to buy the same amp that you have here. I bought the TrueRTA 1/24 and have DL'd the REW software and got a Dayton MIC w/custom calibration.
@@lesgarten , Nice selections. Yes, we use the PC Audio outs and the Tape Ins, both 1 and 2 (for left and right). TrueAudio lets you bounce between Left and Right.
You try to give the video more brightness it will be great if you do
That's great feedback, thank you! If I share the screen in future videos, I should share a direct screen capture.
Hi Richard, just curious: wouldn’t it be better to equalize/tune the whole system (including the speakers in the car) at once?
When tuning the car we want to start with the flattest response possible. This is because we have to understand the difference between what we can change with an EQ or Time Alignment and what we cannot. We also want to be careful of gain relationships and the gain structure of the system. With a DSP we have 3 or 4 levels of gain - the source output, the DSP input, the DSP output, and the amplifier input. When we add boost we adversely affect the gain structure. When dealing with an OEM system, we want to ensure we get the flattest and lowest distortion source possible.
That way when we see issues when measuring the acoustic response in the car, we know it's attributed to the vehicle acoustics or speaker frequency response. Simply put, starting with a flat sources helps us make informed decisions when tuning.
The trick in this video is to look at the electrical signal and verify what you're starting with. The acoustical signal, measured with microphones, includes many factors including phase interference (constructive and destructive), polar response, reflections, acoustic resonance, structural resonance, cabin modes, and cabin gain.
Richard Vedvik
Thank you. I forgot that gain is no issue because you use an external amp anyway and understanding what’s going on later on is much more important. 👍
Found you