They say he was an underdog. But him himself was one of the top 3 knights in Europe! The man was a true warrior. And to achieve what he did with resources he had I think that what makes him even more special
The shapes/sizes of noses & lips are - from what I’ve read - “educated guesses” since the nose is cartilage & the lips are just soft tissue. They can get guidance from the hole left by the nose & the shape of the jaw . . . but the finished product may or may not look much like the individual’s in life. No one will ever know, sadly. So I’d love to see the best recreation artists’ skills tested. It could be done with current technology. Take a living person & do a 3D scan of his/her skull. Use a 3D printer to create a model of the skull & produce as many copies as needed. To make the task more realistic, the models could be “aged” in various ways to replicate disease, injury, or missing pieces of bone. Then present the artists with these model skulls & let them do their thing. DON’T tell them these are models from living people (thus the testing part.) When the artists are finished, let’s see how closely their work resembles the actual person. Such an exercise would be fascinating! And who knows? Maybe something could be learned from these ‘reverse recreations.’
Quite a small sample size. It is a great idea but (and I don't know, maybe it takes weeks to do 1 person but otherwise...) it would be fun if they could do several people. That way they maybe get 2/5 close, or all 5 of them for example.
Wow, this is great. My grandmother was a Lockhart, before-she marriedand her father who’s ancestors likely batted along with Robert the Bruce. Her mother was a Shannon before married to a lochart. We can only go as far as the 17 hundreds years.
My 16thgreat grandfather was one of his soldiers. He was also knighted by him. I enjoy learning about the man my 16th gg was so loyal to. This documentary was so good. Thanks! Correction: William Durham was my 16th great grandfather. The Durham’s were originally from Durham County England. My 6th great grandfather James came to America and died at age 23 in the New York militia fighting the Crown. His son Stephan survived him. We are in America now. Long live Scotland and her people!
When you go back 16 generations my friend , you are related to 131,172 different families and to trace your family back to ca 1300 with any degree of certainty is unfortunately not possible. And by the way its County Durham ..........
rgwholt True about the exponential growth of ancestors. Thank you for the correction of the Durham place name. Your wrong about genealogy. My cousin Mark just returned from Scotland on a genealogy vacation as he called it. He stayed in the estate that once belonged to our Durham ancestors. His daughter has a PhD from Brigham Young university that specializes in genealogy. I believe their findings are accurate. No one was more surprised than I. I know the Durham’s weren’t true Scott’s but they loved them and Scotland more than England. I didn’t know who Robert the Bruce was or about the fight for independence from England. Like my cousin Mark I will be taking a trip to Scotland so I can experience what he did because he said it was amazing. He loves Scotland and I am sure I will too. Peace ✌️
@@rgwholt Your statement of relationship to 131,172 families over 16 generations is strongly inaccurate. (No disrespect intended.) Because of limited travel for the average person and long-term stable populations in both rural areas and most civic population centers, the highest likelihood is that it would be perhaps 1\10 that number. Even marriage outside the village or town would probably still be in a local area of only a few miles. Consider that until very recently most travel was done on foot, on unpaved paths, and that families would have to live within a short day's walk to be able to help each other with the chores.
I've read on a blog that there is a written description of Robert Bruce and William Wallace reported by courtiers of one of Bruce's descendants who wanted to know what Bruce looked like. They found a very old lady who had seen both of them when she was a girl. She said that Wallace was a magnificent handsome man, but Robert The Bruce was the most beautiful creature she'd ever seen. I've not been able to identify the source of this statement, but I'm working on it.
Here comes all the Americans claiming that their 16th great grandad was Robert the Bruce’s best mate Brian that he used to go down the tavern with every weekend.
It's true, we can't help it. But you know, people are all kinda more related than we remember or realize. Robert the Bruce has 200 million distant relatives, according to more recent calculations. That's because Robert I is believed to have had around 12 children, several illegitimately. Basically, most anyone with Scottish ancestry is related to him if that's the case. Even if that's not true, he's got more than a million relatives easily. If your last name is Stewart you more than likely are, as his daughter married Sir Walter Stewart in the 1300s. So y'know, if your 2nd great grannie's dad was a Stewart, congratulations, there's big chance that you wouldn't be here if Robert The Bruce didn't reproduce. Suddenly best mate Brian's 23rd grandson's forgotten all about ol Brian, and instead is scrambling to find a Steward in the family tree 😉
I'm Glaswegian, and I actually am a descendant 😂 my ancestors helped him back in the 1300s, they owned lands in stirlingshire, and my ancestor was one of the only clan chiefs who refused to sign the Ragman's Roll. I still have the same surname as my ancestors did 700 years ago and live about half an hour from their clan seat. I have more recent ancestors who were tobacco lords, so I'm not so proud of that. But on the whole the ones before the slave plantation owners were pretty cool.
@@Glesga_lassiebitch please reading up on world history especially medieval Europe/middle east history (and in particular the history of the Celtic islands) proves no one’s fucking ancestors were anything other than people willing to conquer and kill.
looking at another channel they came up with a totally different looking character reconstructed from what they claimed was Robert's skull. An older, not at all good looking man, Who is correct?
It actually looks what I felt he would look like, for some reason. I guess those old paintings/sketches weren’t as far off as we always perceived them to be🤷♀️. They were no Michaelangos, but they did manage to capture the essence and basics.
Robert the Bruce would be "white" but the shade or tone could be hard to pin down. There was a substantial strain of Norman in his family's history which could have been fairly dark in coloring. There is no known contemporary description for the Bruce. We can be sure he was physically strong since he was able to cut through a battle helmet of a knight on a charger (horse). It was also likely his face showed the wear that comes from being on the run for a few years.
Normans even nowadays in France , are known to be fair and pâle and not dark at all !!!!! During early renaissance when the trend was the blond hair France imported to Italia wigs made up with Normands and flemish girls 'Hair !
@@clairebeane3455 He was known as the Black Douglas by the English - it was a pejorative, an insult that he was violent and evil. The Scots called him Good Sir James.
Great! My ancestor as a cross between Gary Oldham and a Neanderthal. Anyway, these facial reconstructions so often look so alike I find I get skeptical.
Almost as skeptical as I get when all the Americans are commenting like every single one of them are somehow connected to Robert the Bruce! Funny that!
No but I'm interested in the Stuart lineages so have been reading about the Bruce's background recently so I am really surprised they made him look pale white.
My Father's Mother was; Emily Bruce, a second or third cousin to The Bruce. I have always wish that time travel was possible, I would go back to meet The Bruce, before the battle of Stirling! .
I understand he was not at Stirling, but he was still around and I would like to have sat down and talked to him. I would be tempted to tell him that he would never be forgotten but would be worried that could change the outcome of events that put him in the seat of power.
@@glennstewart5397 yeah I’m sure he’d make time for some random geezer who turned up and was like “Yeah just wanted to have a little chat and a cuppa with the king” without telling him that you’re from the future.
I thought that a true copy of the bruce's skull was kept at broom hall home of Lord Elgen when I visited there 21 years ago I saw it with his sword.Am I wrong?
I'm a Rollo descendant, My father, Richardson,, WOW!!! I got goose bumps, looks just like My Dad,wish he was here to see himself in the reconstruction!!! Thank you for sharing!!!!
Hey! I can't help but be put out by that comment! I am of Scottish descent through my mother. And there are and have been many attractive people in our family.
Why is it when ever I see one of these computer generated facial reconstructions they always turn out looking butt ugly. I wanna know how they determine what kind of nose and facial muscles a person would have based on the skull. Im related to Robert the Bruce II. Looking thru my family the only similarity I see is a hooked nose and pale skin. Fuimus
I am a descendant of Bruce but it is safe to say that enough generations have passed there is no use in trying to compare features. There are videos explaining how 3D reconstructions are made which will answer your question. Well, all except the nose. I don't know if it was found Haha.
Well, if you think about it, the skin color for "white" people varies from near translucent to dark olive similarly to how a black person's skin varies from light caramel to near actual black. Personally, I think they should have used the word tone vice color.
@@sandilou2U If they had meant 'complexion' my guess is that they are intelligent enough, and have sufficient English vocabulary, to have used that word. Or even 'tone'. We had this with 10,000-year-old Cheddar Man, when researchers declared he had been black - despite the chief scientists working on the reconstruction saying there is no way of accurately determining his skin colour because his DNA had degraded over time. I'm quite happy for historical figures to have been white, black, yellow or green - as long as that description is accurate, and not the result of some lame 21st century multicultural agenda.
@@herringfly You have a valid point. I hate to think we have become so afraid of our own shadow that known history is filtered in order to appease current society norms. It is bad enough to know that history was altered as it was being documented. And, we must add, how "Hollywood" uses an artistic license in their portrayal of historical characters. Most people believe they are watching, or reading, a historical account when it is simply created drama for the sake of drawing a fan base which increases profit.
It’s so interesting to see how the asymmetries in the skull translate to the facial features. It definitely lends a bit of character, but what I would be interested in knowing is more about how that may have affected his day to day- like did he have sinus problems, or did it make his smile crooked? Did he even smile much during his life?? What was it like to live in Scotland so long ago with the rain and the chill- I live in Washington state, it’s rough enough here in modern day. I can’t imagine how cold and wet life must have been hundreds of years ago!
It's been done thousands of times. The results are accurate, sometimes amazingly so, i.e. better than the photograph used as a reference. It is an increasingly common form of forensic identification, and has been used for over 40 years.Your statement that it is a scam is not based on fact.
@@thegentleshepherd No not really , .... by 1300 the Normans were pretty much French and a Fleming is not a distinct nationality , it just means Belgian French as Walloon means Belgian Dutch.Anyway still not Scots , which was my point
Well let's differ. My argument is that Philip le Bel added Navarre, thereby Champagne, by marriage in 1284, was given a bloody nose by the Flemish (yes, the Flemish) in 1302, gave them a beating back within a year, suppressed the Templars in 1307 (they controlled much of the Occitane (not France), and he regarded Edward's Aquitaine as a feudal princedom and Edward as his vassal, which led to their fallout - so he couldn't be said to 'control' that either, it wasn't 'France'. My point is that warlord families like the Bruces, Murrays, Douglases, Lindsays, Beatons, Barclays, Gordons et al who largely came from Britany, Normandy, the sophisticated court of Boulogne, Picardy and the complex nobility of Flanders, had been invited to land grab the North of England, Ireland, Scotland and the far flung Devon and Cornwall, particularly during the reign of David 1st of Scotland and his brother-in-la w Henry 1st of England. This was descending from a payback to such families by William the Bastard for helping him out with a sophisticated third of his army at Hastings, and was continued by his successors. He owed them; and , yes, many of them were settled Norsemen , from the Viking incursions from the 900's on. Thus 'Norman' or what we might call 'Norseman' . So no, I don't believe one can use the bland emerging nation state of 'France' to describe them. 'Scottish Hazzard', in two vols ( ISBN 0 906650 04 6), by the late Beryl Platts, can help flesh this out. I was fortunate to meet the current Lord Lyon, a very bright Dundonian lawyer, in answer to my question if her work she be regarded highly, confirmed that, although she was not peer reviewed (too eccentric), many academics thought she was right on the button. There is also a useful more recent tome, 'Scotland and the Flemish People' edited by Alexander Fleming and Roger Mason (ISBN 978 1 910900277).
We once were warriors - then with the chance to vote instead of fight for freedom we chose the safe economic outcome which was really more being raped by Tories - Jesus wept
I am absolutely fascinated by facial reconstruction.
They say he was an underdog. But him himself was one of the top 3 knights in Europe! The man was a true warrior. And to achieve what he did with resources he had I think that what makes him even more special
The shapes/sizes of noses & lips are - from what I’ve read - “educated guesses” since the nose is cartilage & the lips are just soft tissue. They can get guidance from the hole left by the nose & the shape of the jaw . . . but the finished product may or may not look much like the individual’s in life. No one will ever know, sadly.
So I’d love to see the best recreation artists’ skills tested. It could be done with current technology. Take a living person & do a 3D scan of his/her skull. Use a 3D printer to create a model of the skull & produce as many copies as needed. To make the task more realistic, the models could be “aged” in various ways to replicate disease, injury, or missing pieces of bone. Then present the artists with these model skulls & let them do their thing. DON’T tell them these are models from living people (thus the testing part.) When the artists are finished, let’s see how closely their work resembles the actual person. Such an exercise would be fascinating! And who knows? Maybe something could be learned from these ‘reverse recreations.’
Quite a small sample size. It is a great idea but (and I don't know, maybe it takes weeks to do 1 person but otherwise...) it would be fun if they could do several people. That way they maybe get 2/5 close, or all 5 of them for example.
Wow, this is great. My grandmother was a Lockhart, before-she marriedand her father who’s ancestors likely batted along with Robert the Bruce. Her mother was a Shannon before married to a lochart. We can only go as far as the 17 hundreds years.
My 16thgreat grandfather was one of his soldiers. He was also knighted by him. I enjoy learning about the man my 16th gg was so loyal to. This documentary was so good. Thanks!
Correction: William Durham was my 16th great grandfather. The Durham’s were originally from Durham County England.
My 6th great grandfather James came to America and died at age 23 in the New York militia fighting the Crown. His son Stephan survived him. We are in America now.
Long live Scotland and her people!
When you go back 16 generations my friend , you are related to 131,172 different families and to trace your family back to ca 1300 with any degree of certainty is unfortunately not possible. And by the way its County Durham ..........
rgwholt True about the exponential growth of ancestors. Thank you for the correction of the Durham place name. Your wrong about genealogy.
My cousin Mark just returned from Scotland on a genealogy vacation as he called it. He stayed in the estate that once belonged to our Durham ancestors. His daughter has a PhD from Brigham Young university that specializes in genealogy. I believe their findings are accurate. No one was more surprised than I. I know the Durham’s weren’t true Scott’s but they loved them and Scotland more than England. I didn’t know who Robert the Bruce was or about the fight for independence from England. Like my cousin Mark I will be taking a trip to Scotland so I can experience what he did because he said it was amazing. He loves Scotland and I am sure I will too.
Peace ✌️
@@rgwholt Your statement of relationship to 131,172 families over 16 generations is strongly inaccurate. (No disrespect intended.) Because of limited travel for the average person and long-term stable populations in both rural areas and most civic population centers, the highest likelihood is that it would be perhaps 1\10 that number. Even marriage outside the village or town would probably still be in a local area of only a few miles. Consider that until very recently most travel was done on foot, on unpaved paths, and that families would have to live within a short day's walk to be able to help each other with the chores.
I just traced my family tree and I'm a direct decendent if Robert the Bruce.
Brett Hess Interesting concepts you think about and realistic.
One Professor: We guessed that he was strong and this and that...
Another Professor: Oh my God, he exactly turned out like we expected!!
I've read on a blog that there is a written description of Robert Bruce and William Wallace reported by courtiers of one of Bruce's descendants who wanted to know what Bruce looked like.
They found a very old lady who had seen both of them when she was a girl. She said that Wallace was a magnificent handsome man, but Robert The Bruce was the most beautiful creature she'd ever seen.
I've not been able to identify the source of this statement, but I'm working on it.
Here comes all the Americans claiming that their 16th great grandad was Robert the Bruce’s best mate Brian that he used to go down the tavern with every weekend.
It's true, we can't help it. But you know, people are all kinda more related than we remember or realize. Robert the Bruce has 200 million distant relatives, according to more recent calculations. That's because Robert I is believed to have had around 12 children, several illegitimately. Basically, most anyone with Scottish ancestry is related to him if that's the case. Even if that's not true, he's got more than a million relatives easily. If your last name is Stewart you more than likely are, as his daughter married Sir Walter Stewart in the 1300s. So y'know, if your 2nd great grannie's dad was a Stewart, congratulations, there's big chance that you wouldn't be here if Robert The Bruce didn't reproduce. Suddenly best mate Brian's 23rd grandson's forgotten all about ol Brian, and instead is scrambling to find a Steward in the family tree 😉
I'm Glaswegian, and I actually am a descendant 😂 my ancestors helped him back in the 1300s, they owned lands in stirlingshire, and my ancestor was one of the only clan chiefs who refused to sign the Ragman's Roll. I still have the same surname as my ancestors did 700 years ago and live about half an hour from their clan seat. I have more recent ancestors who were tobacco lords, so I'm not so proud of that. But on the whole the ones before the slave plantation owners were pretty cool.
@@Glesga_lassiebitch please reading up on world history especially medieval Europe/middle east history (and in particular the history of the Celtic islands) proves no one’s fucking ancestors were anything other than people willing to conquer and kill.
looking at another channel they came up with a totally different looking character reconstructed from what they claimed was Robert's skull. An older, not at all good looking man, Who is correct?
I'd go with this one as it's taken from the dunfermline skull and comes from credible experts.
the dude looks like a wrestler. So why Chris Pine for the role?
The same reason Eric Bana played Henry VIII. Creative license.
Because Pine is handsome thats it xd
Because he's a great actor and still pulled the role off perfectly?
Coz it’s a movie.
It actually looks what I felt he would look like, for some reason. I guess those old paintings/sketches weren’t as far off as we always perceived them to be🤷♀️. They were no Michaelangos, but they did manage to capture the essence and basics.
Love this,it would be great if thy could respectfully get a cast of Elizabeth's skull and do the same for her.
Elizabeth I? Greenwich did a rarely good reconstruction from portraits. Unfortunately the way they've displayed it is very creepy!
Robert the Bruce would be "white" but the shade or tone could be hard to pin down. There was a substantial strain of Norman in his family's history which could have been fairly dark in coloring. There is no known contemporary description for the Bruce.
We can be sure he was physically strong since he was able to cut through a battle helmet of a knight on a charger (horse). It was also likely his face showed the wear that comes from being on the run for a few years.
Normans even nowadays in France , are known to be fair and pâle and not dark at all !!!!! During early renaissance when the trend was the blond hair France imported to Italia wigs made up with Normands and flemish girls 'Hair !
He was off the French so maybe he would be a we're bit darker like the black douglas
@@paulscott2313 The Black Douglas gained his moniker due to the color of his hair and his beard not the melanin levels in his skin pigmentation.
@@clairebeane3455 He was known as the Black Douglas by the English - it was a pejorative, an insult that he was violent and evil.
The Scots called him Good Sir James.
Great! My ancestor as a cross between Gary Oldham and a Neanderthal. Anyway, these facial reconstructions so often look so alike I find I get skeptical.
Almost as skeptical as I get when all the Americans are commenting like every single one of them are somehow connected to Robert the Bruce! Funny that!
@@MONKEH1510 First, I am not an American. Second, my family is descended from Andrew, his brother.
Anyone else here because they had their family tree reveal lineage to Robert the Bruce?
No but I'm interested in the Stuart lineages so have been reading about the Bruce's background recently so I am really surprised they made him look pale white.
Yes
Aye! It's the wee man come back to us the noo
My guy had an absolutely huge cranium. That is clear.
My Father's Mother was; Emily Bruce, a second or third cousin to The Bruce. I have always wish that time travel was possible, I would go back to meet The Bruce, before the battle of Stirling!
.
I don't think he was at stifling bridge or Falkirk it was Bannockburn that was his finest battle
I understand he was not at Stirling, but he was still around and I would like to have sat down and talked to him. I would be tempted to tell him that he would never be forgotten but would be worried that could change the outcome of events that put him in the seat of power.
@@glennstewart5397 yeah I’m sure he’d make time for some random geezer who turned up and was like “Yeah just wanted to have a little chat and a cuppa with the king” without telling him that you’re from the future.
It would be great if these facial reconstructions would look similar. I've watched about three of these, the end result is different every time.
Bruce had a cleft chin. Why do the powers that be always leave this detail visibly out.
Why are all the Scottish facial reconstructions given brown eyes?
@Adam Lewis Robert Burns ua-cam.com/video/EtesXpGFIDY/v-deo.html
So he looks less like Cris Pine and more like Ray Stevenson.
PB H actually more like Ray Winston 😆
Chris pine played Bruce in outlaw king this is reality real men
Alba gu brath!
Ale barbarzyńca...!
Pozdrawiam!
i have his ears
He won't need them back.
I thought that a true copy of the bruce's skull was kept at broom hall home of Lord Elgen when I visited there 21 years ago I saw it with his sword.Am I wrong?
I just found out I am a direct decendent of Robert the Bruce.
Fascinating
Welcome back 💗
An educated guess, nothing more
They even made him pale white lol
Why did you show a decorated great helm while talking about Robert the Bruce?
I'm a Rollo descendant, My father, Richardson,, WOW!!! I got goose bumps, looks just like My Dad,wish he was here to see himself in the reconstruction!!! Thank you for sharing!!!!
Did the lady just say facial _recognition_ technology rather than _reconstruction_ ?
what documentary is this?
That’s good looking for Scotland
LOL TRUE
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Hey! I can't help but be put out by that comment! I am of Scottish descent through my mother. And there are and have been many attractive people in our family.
@@phyllisruthmick5391 He's just jealous, with a name like Smith he probably looks like a sack of tatties himself and his wife fancies Sam Heughan.
He was my 20th grandfather
Yeah I’m sure he was mate. 👍
Anybody knows who the female presenter is?
I think her name is Sarah Mack?
He also looks like Robin Williams....all the reconstructions look like Robin Williams....sort of
So it's just a guess then 🤣🤣
chainmael wasnt used in 15th century
Why show an English shield in the footage? Oops!
Why is it when ever I see one of these computer generated facial reconstructions they always turn out looking butt ugly. I wanna know how they determine what kind of nose and facial muscles a person would have based on the skull. Im related to Robert the Bruce II. Looking thru my family the only similarity I see is a hooked nose and pale skin. Fuimus
I am a descendant of Bruce but it is safe to say that enough generations have passed there is no use in trying to compare features. There are videos explaining how 3D reconstructions are made which will answer your question. Well, all except the nose. I don't know if it was found Haha.
A reconstruction from my fat Scots-Irish melon would be butt-ugly, because I'm ugly as seven miles of dirt road LoL
@@sandilou2U If he had no nose, then how did he smell? LoL
Its not computer generated,this was taken from a plaster cast of the kings actual skull and covered over in the same way that flesh would have done.
Why do you think the Bruce had pale skin?
"We don't know for definite his skin colour"?
Well, if you think about it, the skin color for "white" people varies from near translucent to dark olive similarly to how a black person's skin varies from light caramel to near actual black. Personally, I think they should have used the word tone vice color.
@@sandilou2U If they had meant 'complexion' my guess is that they are intelligent enough, and have sufficient English vocabulary, to have used that word. Or even 'tone'. We had this with 10,000-year-old Cheddar Man, when researchers declared he had been black - despite the chief scientists working on the reconstruction saying there is no way of accurately determining his skin colour because his DNA had degraded over time. I'm quite happy for historical figures to have been white, black, yellow or green - as long as that description is accurate, and not the result of some lame 21st century multicultural agenda.
@@herringfly You have a valid point. I hate to think we have become so afraid of our own shadow that known history is filtered in order to appease current society norms. It is bad enough to know that history was altered as it was being documented. And, we must add, how "Hollywood" uses an artistic license in their portrayal of historical characters. Most people believe they are watching, or reading, a historical account when it is simply created drama for the sake of drawing a fan base which increases profit.
If he’s Scottish it will be blue like the rest of us 😂😂
@ADH87 In English?
He look like Messi.
Managed to beat the English, and there was only 23 of us!
Have a romanian diplomat cake with some ppsi
It’s so interesting to see how the asymmetries in the skull translate to the facial features. It definitely lends a bit of character, but what I would be interested in knowing is more about how that may have affected his day to day- like did he have sinus problems, or did it make his smile crooked? Did he even smile much during his life?? What was it like to live in Scotland so long ago with the rain and the chill- I live in Washington state, it’s rough enough here in modern day. I can’t imagine how cold and wet life must have been hundreds of years ago!
🇬🇧🔚🏴
My direct ancestor
A scam, not a science. Try "reconstruction" with the skull of someone for whom we have a recent photo.
Baskerville22. You think they guess the data used to add muscles and flesh? They’re based on a vast database of actual measurements.
It's been done thousands of times. The results are accurate, sometimes amazingly so, i.e. better than the photograph used as a reference. It is an increasingly common form of forensic identification, and has been used for over 40 years.Your statement that it is a scam is not based on fact.
Scots so called Kings are more French than Scottish.
“So called” it’s been 700 years mate, you lost, get over it 🤣
Robert the Bruce .....Not even remotely Scots, ...... Robert de Brus , like more or less all of Scottish nobility were French.
Norman Flemish more accurately
@@thegentleshepherd No not really , .... by 1300 the Normans were pretty much French and a Fleming is not a distinct nationality , it just means Belgian French as Walloon means Belgian Dutch.Anyway still not Scots , which was my point
Weren't they descendants of Vikings?
Well let's differ.
My argument is that Philip le Bel added Navarre, thereby Champagne, by marriage in 1284, was given a bloody nose by the Flemish (yes, the Flemish) in 1302, gave them a beating back within a year, suppressed the Templars in 1307 (they controlled much of the Occitane (not France), and he regarded Edward's Aquitaine as a feudal princedom and Edward as his vassal, which led to their fallout - so he couldn't be said to 'control' that either, it wasn't 'France'.
My point is that warlord families like the Bruces, Murrays, Douglases, Lindsays, Beatons, Barclays, Gordons et al who largely came from Britany, Normandy, the sophisticated court of Boulogne, Picardy and the complex nobility of Flanders, had been invited to land grab the North of England, Ireland, Scotland and the far flung Devon and Cornwall, particularly during the reign of David 1st of Scotland and his brother-in-la w Henry 1st of England. This was descending from a payback to such families by William the Bastard for helping him out with a sophisticated third of his army at Hastings, and was continued by his successors. He owed them; and , yes, many of them were settled Norsemen , from the Viking incursions from the 900's on. Thus 'Norman' or what we might call 'Norseman' . So no, I don't believe one can use the bland emerging nation state of 'France' to describe them.
'Scottish Hazzard', in two vols ( ISBN 0 906650 04 6), by the late Beryl Platts, can help flesh this out. I was fortunate to meet the current Lord Lyon, a very bright Dundonian lawyer, in answer to my question if her work she be regarded highly, confirmed that, although she was not peer reviewed (too eccentric), many academics thought she was right on the button. There is also a useful more recent tome, 'Scotland and the Flemish People' edited by Alexander Fleming and Roger Mason (ISBN 978 1 910900277).
We once were warriors - then with the chance to vote instead of fight for freedom we chose the safe economic outcome which was really more being raped by Tories - Jesus wept
He is in my family
What rubbish looks more like lionel messi