I want to fistfight Colleen Hoover
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
- I've spent more time and effort on this stupid youtube video than Colleen Hoover has on any of her books, and you can quote me on that.
This video was originally meant to be a light-hearted look at some horrible booktok marketing I kept coming across. But the more I looked into Colleen and her work, the angrier I got and next thing I knew, I had 4 hours of footage. I'm not a journalist (if the mikruphone, and wrong usage of understated didn't tip you off already) so please keep in mind this was actually made for entertainment purposes, for all 6 of my friends who I regularly hold at plastic sword point while I scream incoherently at. I'm not sure how the rest of you ended up here, but enjoy. Or suffer.
Since this video is getting traction, here's some useful links for what's going on around the world and if you could donate just 1 euro to any of them please let me know in the comments I'll thank you!
Palestine
Resources:helppalestine.carrd.co/
Medical Relief Fund: palestinian-ama.networkforgoo...
More ways to help: sulfurcosmos.tumblr.com/post/...
Sudan
Resources: www.icc-cpi.int/darfur
www.globalgiving.org/learn/su...
Donate: eyesonsudan.net/donate
Congo
Resources: www.easterncongo.org/support/
comfortinternational.org/blog...
Donate: www.actionagainsthunger.org.u...
Armenia
Resources: helparmenians.carrd.co/
Donate:interland3.donorperfect.net/w...
Tigray
Resources: www.hrw.org/tag/tigray-conflict
Donate: www.freetigray.com/donate - Комедії
![Lp. Последняя Реальность #107 РОДНОЙ ДОМ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IK3QKzKUlHM/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for all the insightful comments! I will now respond to them as if I was a murderous medieval King with a mind wrecked by many sexual transmittable diseases for my own amusement.
Uhm, if i may, why do you lisp?
Is it a tooth related thing or just a speech imdepement?
You obviously don’t gotta answer though 👉👈👉👈
@@tikimillie SILENCE PEASANT!!!! TO THE GALLOWS WITH YOU!!!!!
(i've always had it lol)
I like ur sword and ur miku-phone ❤
If I may, do you have an editor, are or you doing these edits yourselves? Because some of them are absolutely god-tier perfect and so you either need to thank your editor or... thank yourself I guess?
Thank you for the manga recommendation, I normally don't read them but this one is literally catered to my insane girlie interests so, how couldn't I? Love me some derranged masochist pathetic meow meow.
"I am God's forgotten sim and my house is on fire"
I'll be using this.
same.
Filing this one right next to "We are all God's Neopets and he forgot the password."
@@koda_dawggKurtis pfp
I heard it as 'sin' at first. This makes more sense.
@@Dominator150395 oh I'm definitely using this one, it's just PERFECT
Colleen Hoover has given me new hope that I might one day be published. Thanks Colleen! Your absolute incompetence has inspired me.
It's not really about if you can write anymore. It's if you have enough money.
I LOVE THIS
Same! Whenever I feel like I'm never gonna get published I think about the amount of shitty authors that everyone seems to love.
@@chrissyweaver3475 Once you get famous, no one keeps you in check. I love some stephen king's books, but you can sometimes tell how little they are edited. I'm reading "IT" and he described blood in a gorey scene as hot pink. I legit paused to giggle.
@@goldnamaterasublood as. gore as hot pink- is this fuckin danganronpa?!?!?
I think Colleen Hoover needs to talk to humans in real life. Her writing seems like an alien who only understands a few caricatures of men and women.
- All female characters in her novels are gullible and have no self-respect
- All male characters in her novels are irredeemably evil
The question is: Would she even be able to talk to a human in real life? Or would she just be found so weird and unconnectable that nobody would even want to go near her, let alone be anything close to a friend.
Which came first, the loneliness or the attitude?
Also for some reason all her female characters are either virgins or like had sex once when they were like 13(which is weird in on it self tbh) and the male characters are serial sex machines
Like, this boggles my mind (I'm saying this without context of Colleen Hoover so don't take me seriously). If the male characters are portrayed as evil, you'd think the female characters would be written as more capable or stronger. But apparently the female characters are weak and frail? Again, no context, just trying to take in what I'm looking at here.
This feels like a double negative. Who is this for (genuinely asking)???
She better not find out about non binary peeps
maybe colleen hoover is projecting?
Something I don't think people talk about enough is how fanfiction is predominantly written by queer people about queer pairings, but most if not all "published fanfic" is strictly heterosexual and written by cishet people. Disappointing but not surprising.
i actually write hetero fanfic as a cishet person, but you're right about how queer fanfic and writers are absolutely dominating (and terrific) at it. the society cannot handle the queer agenda yet, but there are works we can do to get there. for now, i need to sit with how you can be jailed for having gay s3x in my country. 💀
being queer and writing about queer people is one thing, but most "queer fanfiction" are straight women masturbating to gay porn.
@@MagisterialVoyager There are WAY too many countries I could think of that could describe yours, let alone the ones that would also imprison people for the mere idea of gay depictions in literature.
@@fusionspace175 The fanfiction genre is like 90% queer pairings.
And for very obvious reasons..
One look at ao3 stats will give you that information both when it comes to smut, non smut and everything in between. Good queer media is so rare everywhere due to how they're still viewed by most of society and those in power, so queer people flock to fanfiction bc it takes a lot of relationships that had they been a straight couple they'd be canon but since they're mlm or wlw they're not.
And its especially noticeable with mlm because of how focused general works and media was and still is on men. The few women that do show up most times only do as a love interest or are so badly written there's no real relationship with other women to build off of.
I feel like this rise we've been seeing of wlw fanfiction is a testament to women being allowed more freedom and opportunity as creatives in regular media.
Omg this explains so much!!! Whenever I see fanfic authors (by rumour) are getting published I'm so excited and then super confused when the books suck. Turns out I only read queer fanfic and it's the straights getting published
I misread the title and I read Colleen Ballinger, but yes I'd also like to fight Colleen Hover 💀
Lol same, i was like WHAT SHE WROTE THAT TOO
I assure you I too would throw hands with that foul fiend
I'm convinced that people who are named Colleen are huge red flags 😭
@@Rosabella.Thorne7 i've never heard of anyone named Colleen who hasn't done something bad 😭
Same
It's me, I'm the trans person who's gonna write straight romances
THANK YOU MY LIEGE!!!!!!!!!!
Volunteering to assist as a fellow trans person and writer 🫡
@@robbieboydudeguyas an enby I second this
I am also volunteering to help in this as a trans woman, I adore writing romance and could probably help with the realism
I as a "my gender is queer in a way that means that i do not really care about it" i will prof-read it and maybe help with ideas for the cover
I think it's worth mentioning that fanfiction does not necessarily correlate to making a bad story! I have read fanfictions that have brought me to genuine tears discussing trauma and the systematic issues of the world with an underlying romance! i have read books that had nothing to do with fanfiction that I thought, "wow, this SUCKS, i bet theres a better story on WATTPAD."
Fanfiction could be good, hell, fanfics could even been turned into published books and be absolutely amazing, problem being that the authors we associate with this genre, such as 365 or the book mentioned here, or even anna todd and to an extent colleen hoover all produce fanfiction with abuse male leads that we are eventually supposed to come around to and love, falling back on the "bad boy with a dark story and trauma that escuses him from being an asshole" trope that becomes so exhausting and mind numbing.
Fanfiction itself isnt the problem here, it is the people that publishing companies decide to turn into movies/books that are the problem and overall give the entirety of fanfiction a bad wrap.
Can you recommend some? I’m really new to fanfiction but I really want to get into it! Doesn’t matter the fandom, I just read whatever is good :3
ok?? she literally pointed this out in the video lol
@@rimkokoa3766I think being in a fandom and reading the fanfictions of that fandom might have a stronger impact on your enjoyment of it because initially you have already had a great understanding and attachments to the characters already, all it needs left is a great story development and character study. That being said, you could use the filter on ao3 sorted to most kudos to read the fandom's favorite fic (and usually it's pretty good too)
@@rimkokoa3766 Try Measure Each Step to Infinity on AO3, or Siri play do you like waffles on AO3
@@Mary-T35T4I SHALL APPOINT YOU KNIGHTHOOD FOR YOUR MOST EXCELLENT ATTENTION
Ao3 writer here, i feel like I’m in the fan fiction mines, giving it my all to get 300 hits, Colleen Hoover just throws some random shit together and publishes it, and them makes millions.
ikr? but then at least it gives me faith i could potentially get something published if this is the kind of standard were held up to
It’s always the best stuff that gets swept under the rug, while the worst stuff gets the spotlight.
As someone who exclusively reads fanfic, hearing your description of why fanfic was like was very confusing, until such time as I realized that you were describing fanfic written by and for straight women. I think that the situation is very different for queer fanfic because of the fact that there is no world in which a really well written queer fanfic gets published with the names changed. As a result, it’s very easy to find higher quality works because there is truly nowhere else they could be published on or off line. Perhaps I am too defensive of my content of choice, I would be curious to hear if others share similar experiences.
My beloved subject, I completely agree, but alas this video was dedicated to the inherent issues with straight romance, despite my own queerness!
I mean I’ve read queer fanfic that still sucks and has toxic relationships being romanticized but yeah I agree that that doesn’t feel like as systemic an issue as with “the straights”
@@shriekingshrew3804 "inherent issues with straight romance"
uhh wtf?
@@user-mn8lz7gf6d straight romance BOOKS. context, user-mn8lz7gf6d, context
@@user-mn8lz7gf6dStraight romance, as in the subgenre
I can personally from experience tell us fellow gals…RUNNNNN as fast as you can from a man who says “blue balls hurt”, “i cant stop if i start”, etc. i was in a nearly decade long relationship from age like 15 with a man like that. It was one of the most depressing and toxic experiences ive ever had and im still recovering from that childhood of truama ontop of that horrid relationship 😅.
I am super grateful to the teacher that warned us about these lines during sex ed at high school. She sent us into the world with something of a shield ...
@@DebErelene silly me for not listening 😭. Or maybe he was just that darn good at manipulation tactics .
@@user-gx6jo4ew3g Some of those boys know how to put on the charm the rest of the time, that's for sure. And there's a lot going on at 15 that can leave us susceptible. Certainly don't beat yourself up over that. And I hope you're healing from it.
i'm so glad you got out of that situation
I mean, blue balls/ovaries _can_ be painful, but there's an easy way to fix that that involves a solitary activity 😂
As for the other stuff... yeesh. Glad you got out of there.
The only thing I wanna push back against in this video is the idea that a first book from an author is wholly unworthy of selling and being bought. Making a book that isn't trend chasing fast food is hard, and it's harder to get published. Hell, it's hard to even get the fast food made because the market is so bloated. We live in a world where we need money to survive. If you want an author to be able to live long enough to maybe write better, they need to be able to make money.
I agree with this, but more often than not there isn't just the "first book", many popular books quickly turn into series or the writer ends up falling into a hole of either rewriting the same book multiple times, or there was a series for the sake of milking its popularity.
There's SJM, Colleen Hoover, Cassy Claire, Rebecca Yarros, definitely many more that I'm forgetting about but I'm blanking on names or I just dont know lmao
Colleen is the odd one out cause while almost her entire writing history revolves around creating men who deserve jail time, the "series cause money" thing started with the "It ends with us" book.
OH YEAH Alex Aster, can't forget her, I feel like she started this whole "If I used every trope in the book, I'll make bank" but thats just me
I feel like the main issue is that there's no intention to "get better" because its really not about writing better.
The same way a fast food restaurant has no intention to become anything else or cook anything that isn't fast food.
And it shows because its not the first book, or the second, book or third book, its all of them with no intention to change it. Which I get, its what sells so it's what people are going to make, good or bad.
Yeah one thing outsiders don't realize about the trad publishing industry is how pushy and controlling they are now, especially to new writers, and how much the trope-driven fiction scene is driven by them. If you're a fresh author without any established and/or insider connection, you WILL get a large amount of publishers and agents who will act like they can sock puppet you into being a ghostwriter for whatever trope they want to capitalize on that quarter.
You know, this is nice and all, but a good author can make any tired trope come back from the dead stronger than ever and beat the hell out of anyone. Who's saying we should bury enemies to lovers? Nobody. Absolutely fucking nobody, because good authors are _always_ dropping banger enemies to lovers stories. Who's saying we should bury codependent amoral criminals madly in love with each other and antipathic towards morality? Nobody. People have never and will never tired of Bonnie and Clyde stories. A good writer can even take their own tired tropes and bring them roaring back to life. Gurren Lagann was made by the same humans that made Neon Genesis Evangelion. They took the entire genre out back, shot it in the head, and then successfully gave the genre CPR for a bullet wound to the head and brought it back to life. And then to follow it up they breathed new life into the gag series genre, and then went and invented Shonen Yuri. The ingredients do not determine the quality of a dish. The chef does. If BTAS can be made on Fox Kids restrictions, you can make a good book with any trope.
My beloved subject, I see your point and don't disagree! Truthfully that comment was specifically aimed at the author of Lightlark, Alex Aster, who I can assure was in no lack of funds when she published that book, and after further research realised that wasn't even her first book despite her own claims that it was, a true scoundrel that one! That was my bad, but for more info on that check out Reads with Rachel's video on her if you'd like!
Your sense or humor is great like the "reading monster f*ckers killed my grandma" was so good I can't even.
i grew up thinking that kisses that are forced are romantic, but having to go through that along with unwanted touching made me realize that I didn't recognize the actions of that person as bad until it had already happened. The media I grew up with said that this was something I should dream of, and yet it hurt me an unberable amount that I still kind of struggle with it now 4 years later.
"i grew up thinking that kisses that are forced are romantic"
wtf
@@user-mn8lz7gf6dlol not all people have good family, atleast they grew up to realize
Media does not reflect reality, and those forced kisses in media are done with a mind of the woman consenting to begin with. Kinda like how women's most common sexual fantasies being r*pe doesn't automatically equate to them wanting that. But instead its implicit that they want to lose themselves to pleasure with their consent.
It’s unfortunate, that your parents weren’t watching or paying attention to what media you were consuming. Why do you think your parents failure in that regard, makes it OK for censorship? Do you think adults can’t understand the difference between reality and fiction?
@@xdani_thethinkingneko they never said anything about censorship, are you looking for a fight?
I’m a huge Colleen Hoover hater, so this is gonna be good. I’m partway through, and everything is right on the money. A lot of how these books are written give internalized misogyny…
Edit: I definitely agree that coHo can’t write lmao
Edit 2: also don’t forget that Colleen TWICE said in her books “brain trauma doesn’t exist” lmao. Once it was ghosts, once verity was faking her massive head trauma… somehow
damn why do you even like her if she can't write lol? unless it's ironically
@@vinespider9440she doesn’t she said Colleen Hoover hater.
@@vinespider9440 I said in the start I’m a Colleen Hoover hater lol, I don’t like her
@@simplebeauty120 oh oops nevermind I guess i'm illiterate or they changed it
@@sneakysnek572 my bad guess i can't read lol
I found this about a week after I finished ACOTAR and I felt like I was taking crazy pills for hating this book. This verbalized everything I had an issue with.
Reading ACOTAR is why I no longer trust booktok, that book was awful
@@Givebackthescarf I do personally read a wide spectrum of things. The video simply came up in my recommended. I infact talk about the books I read with friends. I don't know why you felt the need to write an entire essay on my comment I think it might be a good idea to get out of your own head, put down the phone and go outside. Please don't throw ableism at me like you know anything about me.
@@Givebackthescarf mhmh no? Dark questionable romance was created by women for women.
@@GivebackthescarfI mean... I've taken literary theory classes that go over feminist theory, new criticism, and etc.
But I'll still read these books to take them apart further because people should also come to their own decisions and listen to other people's opinions about them. That's the whole point when talking about literature. You all read the same thing and bring on different perspectives. There is zero need to try to gatekeep this.
Just saying.
i was a teen wattpad girl and my close knit group of friends were absolutely raving about ACOTAR and almost convinced me to read it. i was trying to finish TMI by cassandra clare before i started on ACOTAR and i think thats what saved me from becoming an ACOTAR girly circa 2017.
i hated TMI. i decided to never trust my friends recommendations again and went into ao3 and left behind my wattpad past. funnily enough, Cassandra Clare and SJM are now laughing stocks of the the reading community that arent dick riding their teenage nostalgia, think "smut = amazing literature" or on spicytok (who's recs and golden faves are comically vanilla compared to the D3NE fics on ao3)
Saw a woman today buying a hoover book and I was wondering if I should warn her it’s gonna be bad.
@@Givebackthescarf I don’t read men who write violent rape scenes. Also I don’t care much about the gender of the author, if a book is poorly written (not just because the content is upsetting) then it’s poorly written.
I work with a bunch of older women and they have sharing copies of Coleen Hoover books. I have tried to warn them and they didn’t take what I said seriously.
So that woman might not have listened even if you did warn her.
@@lois4158 probably not but you know I think books should have content warnings either on the cover or on the first page. I picked up Earthling thinking it seemed perfectly innocent and boy as shookth by the content of that book. Really wish I had a warning on that.
I am a fanfiction writer, and I agree that you can't just cut and replace the names in the 'books' of fanfiction you write to be a 'new' title. It is written in a significantly different way. I think, for most writers of novels, it's not primarily about having their 'desires' fulfilled; it's about telling a story, a story they've planned for and sat with for a long time. The nature of novels demands reiteration and editing and planning.
Novels are a years-long task, and so too can fanfiction be, but I find it's more common to have fanfiction that is more immediate. I'm not sure what the common length for a fanfiction would be, but they're frequently shorter. You can press post on almost anything, and there's no penalty for not having more than one chapter. In fact, in a lot of cases, it's more beneficial to be one chapter.
A lot of my fanfictions are about fulfilling desires I have - the desire to see P and Eugenie dance together, the desire to see Gladio and Prom go on a cute date to a restaurant, the desire to see a character mistreated in their canon story treated well by another character for once. And, of course, more NSFW desires. And while I think there can be some novels that follow a similar path, where you just want to see your characters having a nice, happy time, I think most authors of novels write their own fanfiction and set it aside so they can focus on telling a good story.
I've seen a lot of videos on UA-cam saying that Colleen Hoover's books are the worst, and given that description of the first book, with her...uh...dad getting out of prison and then ending up inside her, if I heard that correctly, well, I can see why they might get such a reputation. I've never read any of her work myself, and never watched the videos until now (your title was very eye-catching, lol), so hopefully I can learn a bit more about her through watching this video.
I am also a fanfiction writer. I have dabbled in original writing before I got burnt out and returned to the world of Fanfiction. I wrote my own original stuff and didn't take a Fanfiction I had written, change the names and attempt to publish it. I don't get authors like Cassandra Clare or even Ali Hazelwood where they take down their fanfic and decide to go the original writing route where they simply change the names of their characters. It's very lazy, I think.
aw. I love Eugénie, I'd enjoy reading that fic
@@witchwaist it's on ao3, I'm pretty sure it's one of the only fics for that pair :)
fanfiction often rely on the reader being familiar with the source material
"her...uh...dad getting out of prison and then ending up inside her"
that alone is not bad writing, in fact making that believable would be great writing, but it seems that is something that she is utterly incapable of.
I recently read a book where a medical student falls in love with a reanimated (kind of) corpse and it still had more believable interactions than all this bs.
Edit: New sub here btw, hope your channel grows!
Edit 2: The book's title is "Anatomical ambition" by h.t. gale, actually a fun read.
Corpse bride
@@missrebel634 corpse rentboy
@@missrebel634I just realized the book is available at no cost on amazon. It's free real state!
As a medical student that has done dissections before, I don’t think I could stomach this book 😂
"we both laughed at our sons big balls" made me wonder why she made millions. but mihawkuri and senlinyu dont get paid a dime on ao3. oh what a world
the "we both laughed at our son's big balls" in the thumbnail made me click on this video because it's so ridiculous and i needed context😭
These writers want success so badly that they are destroying the genre they are writing for. I some years, readers will become disillusioned and start avoiding these books at all costs. The same thing happened with all the Hunger Games copycats
28:30 This reminds me, I was just reading a Manga on a website where you comment on each chapter. Throughout most of the story, it was filled with people screaming about how they wish they'd just communicate. It was upsetting but people were reading because the author still managed to put in enough effort that everybody still wanted to see the lovers become official and find happiness due to how ADORABLE their first meeting was. Like, it was almost masterful how lovable the author made the main characters.
But then, they had the male love interest rape the main character while drunk... And suddenly, everybody did a complete 180 into despising him. They gloss over it, and the main character is just worried about what's going on with him, and they just kept losing their audience. If they had had a genuine moment where he asked for forgiveness for doing that to her, maybe he could've won some people back, because they'd already developed him as somebody who is very caring and genuine, but no... he doesn't even bring it up in his own thoughts. I stopped reading soon after realising that they weren't going to get better.
Edit : the manga is "The Lost Lady and the Crimson Duke"
I hate it when authors throw in rape for.. what? It's weird and fetishy and sick. So many stories could do without rape. Unless the story approaches SA with care and it ISN'T used as some plot device then SA shouldn't be in the story.. it's very upsetting.. I've seen a concerning amount of stories romanticize rape and it's awfully disappointing..
May i know which story it was? That sounds crazy to f up your romance with the MAIN LI like that, what was the author even thinking???
This reminded me of Bad Thinking Diary
@@-dark-paradise I think it's "wished you were dead" on webtoon
@@allosauring6477it sounds a bit like Lore Olympus but I might be wrong.
Everytime I see a book get hyped up on Booktok I think “Let me guess? A white straight woman just wrote a romance with the “shadow-bad-boy-that’s-actually-good no-really-guys-I-promise and a female protagonist who’s bad ass but only bc the male love interest told her she was and she’s going dedicate her entire existence to liking this guy and even maybe dying for him and the women who read this book are this shit up for some reason” and 9.9/10 I’m usually right…
But in all seriousness I loved this video it basically said all my thoughts about this genre and it was just really good keep it up!! :)
Yes! Wattpad and Tiktok are basically the same thing now when it comes to writing.
at least it's not a black woman 😭
Tbf, you can do the same thing in regards to AO3 which is filled to the brim with needy queer people eating up the same cringe plot 24/7. If its popular, its popular. No harm in it.
Why’d you say 9.9/10 instead of 99%?
@@miggle2784I think I meant 9.9 times out of 10 and I just didn’t write it like that
my mom was talking about the fact that in her generation, once you started intercourse, it was assumed you could not take it back after the first moment of consent, and how it was just like that for almost everybody. I feel like sometimes these books can make that issue worse
"But that's because a lot of them aren't telling a story; they're indulging in a fantasy. And its this hyperfocus on self-indulgent writing that I think has led a lot of younger people to not understand why someone could ever be compelled to write something like _Lolita_ unless the author himself was writing in pedophilic self-indulgence. Because they can't possibly fathom why someone would ever want to tell a story without focusing on self-gratification. Because that's all they read."
You *PERFECTLY* encapsulated the issue with modern literature today (well that and the pervasive perniciousness of MFA lit programs) and we must spread this excerpt far and wide. I've been wanting to scream "Depiction does NOT EQUAL endorsement!" at the top of my lungs everywhere for almost 20 years now. You should do a video about why young readers aren't familiarizing themselves with the work of previous centuries (aside from Jane Austen), even if that previous century was less than 25 years ago (is it a "we don't know what the list is" kind of thing or something else?); I keep running into that a lot with other media, from music and movies and TV shows as well as books.
I'm not even religious, but the fact that Hoover outsold the Bible and Tolkien still hasn't would totally justify Tolkien resurrecting and beating her with a shillelagh.
I get so sad when people say that colleen hoover is "like fanfiction" or "for people who never had a fanfiction phase" like don't disrespect the craft by comparing it to Colleen Hoover.
the writing that has had the biggest emotional impact on me has been predominantly fanfiction. I've learned what I appreciate in writing and what makes good writing different from great writing, through fanfiction. there is silly fanfiction, there is bad fanfiction, just like there are silly and bad pieces of original writing, but there are also a lot of really talented and technically skilled fanfiction writers. and also: not all fanfiction is self insert; reader x whoever or original characters are a minority and while it's definitely self indulgent, a huge portion of it is self indulgent in a very different way (like self indulgence in finally seeing representation you've been denied by just making it yourself). by calling these kinds of books similar to fanfiction you're kind of misrepresenting what fanfiction is generally like. they do share similarities with a specific stereotypical subcategory of fanfiction, but they're not even close to what fanfiction is to me and to most people I know.
it's nice to expand on what you already know, instead of always getting into knew things, which is why I like reading about the same characters over and over and over again, but that's because I'm actively choosing to do that and not because the author doesn't know how to write more than two personalities.
that's my problem with Colleen Hoover. Colleen Hoover is just not that good of a writer. she wouldn't be a good writer if it was fanfiction and she's not a good writer when it's books. it's readable, easy to get through (style wise not topic/theme wise), but it's not good. at points it's outright bad. it feels like she doesn't plan her books out beforehand and just comes up with things as she writes sometimes, all her female characters have pretty much the same tone of voice/minimal to no personality and half the time she just doesn't use the plot points she sets up for herself.
And I would not have a problem if she was just a bad writer but the fact that she's selling so much and getting published while so many, far better, authors can't is very frustrating. it's frustrating to see her books everywhere, it's frustrating what kind of ideas they promote to an audience of mostly young girls. and honestly? it's frustrating that this is a best selling author writing this crap but fanfiction is looked down on and made fun of.
I honestly don't mind tropes too much, but also a lot of fanfiction has very original and creative storylines. but I think the reason tropes work so well in fanfiction and the reason in doesn't translate well into books is because in order to care about the characters and what is happening you need to know the characters. in fanfiction that's a given. you don't need to introduce your readers to the characters, they already know them. you can and should characterise them further, but you can expect a certain base knowledge. you can't write a book in the same way. because in the end what you will end up with is characters that people don't care about, because they don't know them well enough. Colleen Hoover does less work characterising than the vast majority of fanfiction I've read. you need to make me care about these characters, if you want me to feel for them and in order to do that you have to actually make a character and not just an empty shell of a person
there is a difference between fanfiction, born out of passion and love for something, and lazily written cash grabs. anyone can enjoy whatever the hell they want but these kinds of books aren't like fanfiction. they're like fanfiction if you sucked the soul out of it.
Dude posted a book
@@user-mc2vv2oz6o bro I'm so passionate about this I could keep going forever!
"I'm straight on my father's side." The fact it's delivered by a TTS voice makes it even funnier.
ive been writing a video essay about the 'fanfic-ication' of books for like a year now, and it's so sick to see someone else talk about this - I'm so excited to see more of your work, i wish you the best with everything
MY LIEGE!!! I EAGERLY AWAIT YOUR VIDEO!!!!
pls respond when u do, i wanna see it!! i love this topic :)
3:31 OMG THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! i’ve *been* saying this. fanfic and traditional books are TWO SEPARATE MEDIUMS and should be kept as such!!! the fanficification of published books has been driving me INSANE
@NotVille_you sure are prolific
Gotta disagree.
I've read fanfics that were absolutely novel worthy.
You may wanna elaborate so one can actually understand what you mean by "fanficification".
@@user-mn8lz7gf6d no i agree that there’s fanfic that’s better than traditionally published novels!
what i mean by “fanficification” is not that it’s becoming shitty like fanfic is, because i love fanfic! what i really mean is that traditional writing/published works are adopting the conventions and writing styles of fanfic; fanfic has a completely different skill set than traditional! for example, fanfic relies a lot on tropes (think filtering through ao3 tags), which becomes cheap and annoying when used in tradpub’s marketing imo. there’s also less emphasis on building characterization and world-building in fanfic because you’re already working with existing material; to me, those two things are FUNDAMENTAL to making a good, or even great traditional book or book series!
my main thing is that we should not be blending fanfic writing with traditional novel writing because they’re two ENTIRELY different things, not one worse than the other. hope this clears things up!
@@wooogie672can't say I agree with your last point.
I think that writing is way more complex than that.
@@user-mn8lz7gf6d obviously writing and storytelling are more complex, i’m not saying otherwise. i was just giving some examples for how fanfiction is created and functions different compared to traditional novel writing! /nm
I write fanfic where both characters are unapologetic simps for each other. Can agree its very fun.
Here's an excerpt for those interested. It's really fun writing tooth rotting fluff.
Humming softly, Napoleon walked over and hugged Jonathan from behind and nuzzled in. “Thank you love.” he mumbled as he kissed Jonathan's cheek.
Jonathan purred softly as he looked up at Napoleon and smiled with the warmth of a thousand suns. “You're welcome, mouse.”
Humming softly, Napoleon grabbed his food and sat on the counter as he started eating. Cocking his head as he watched Jonathan, he crossed his legs. “These are so fucking good.” he mumbled as he reached for a drink.
Handing Napoleon his coffee, Jonathan hummed as he grabbed his plate and joined Napoleon on the counter. “Fùcking tell me about it. So moist and delicious and cheesy.”
Snorting, Napoleon drank deeply and hummed softly as he started eating more. “Definitely did a good job.” he mumbled as his tail wrapped around Jonathan's ankle.
Jonathan purred softly as he kept eating. “Yeah. Better than my first few tries at least.”
Laughing softly, Napoleon looked at the brunette. “How many did you make?!”
Jonathan smiled sheepishly. “This is my third attempt. The others are still pretty okay but one was underseasoned and the other was dry. And I wanted to give you the best.”
“Are you eating the rejects?”
Jonathan chuckled nervously as he looked at Napoleon. “...nooooo?”
“Johnny. Take one of mine.” He mumbled as he handed the brunette one and took one of his.
Jonathan purred softly as he ate the reject before starting on the good one. “Oh fuck this is so good.”
Snorting, Napoleon looked at Jonathan. “You're a dork.”
Jonathan kicked his feet as he ate and booped Napoleon. “I know.”
GENDER BENT HANDMAIDS TALE?! WHAT. 😂
As a queer fanfic writer, I agree with so much of this. I haven’t put into words why I hate the booktok books and published fanfic until now, but it’s literally because why tf would I pay for that when there’s free fanfics that have been more profound for me? If I read romance it is almost exclusively queer, because cishet romance books have felt so lazy in their writing where the goalposts for queer stories are much MUCH higher and often like to play dynamics in new ways. I do have to say, I disagree that books are mostly good only if they have something to say. I think that fanfic has some great writing even when it’s just a silly trope that sounds cool. Does it always merit publishing? Maybe not, but I don’t think they’re that mutually exclusive.
Your lisp is like mine and it's the first time i've felt that it's cute. Thank you
same!
I love romance books, but tiktok romance books are so awful and mysogenistic and then these tik tok girlies will rave about these awful male characters who are complete red flags. Like what?
I want to read heartwarming and wholesome romances but because of tiktok all the new books coming out are leaning towards these awful male characters!
Booktok felt like when I was reading 1984. I thought I was just finding/reading classic literature and then on the next page/scroll inexplicably we're describing r*pe fantasies with the main romantic interest.
I read a bunch of Ayn Rand at one point (don’t ask) and she always fucking did that shit. Her constant fucking rape scenes actually snapped me out of that shitty politics it was that fucking insane.
in my personal interruption of 1984, the mc's fantasy is supposed to show how fucked the mc's morality is
Agreed @@danielnidhiry5796
@@danielnidhiry5796that would be a good interpretation if he wasnt a self insert character
@@minna2911 self insert?
I think that’s why I thought Aziraphale and Crowley from Good Omens are so “human”. They have so much personality and while their romance in always at the forefront and you could tell that they obviously are head over heels for each other; they are beings with their own struggles that are so inherently “them” (even if it makes you want shake a certain angel at the end of s2)
Idk I just think it’s one time in media I felt so much personality ✨✨
Another Good Omens fan! And I agree.
They were just living their best lives, doing their thing, didnt even occur to them to be in a relationship, till somebody dropped the penny
This is a truly excellent video essay I was shook when I realized you have a smaller channel. I’m really happy the UA-cam gods actually weren’t a dick for once and showed me good content. I hope that this video gets the flowers and vibes it deserves and leads your channel into growing into whatever you’d like it to become. I’m excited to see where you go! I’m here for everyone making content that calls out problematic book themes and making a bag off this predatory industry.
as someone who has sigmatism (a lisp) and is insecure about it i find it very comforting to listen to a youtuber or someone else who speaks the same way i do 😭❤️
Thank god someone else pointed out the issue i have with modern book advertising, like these are just words! These are just words to me! These are just tropes without any proper context, what is the PLOT? The tropes dont make it good, you can write the same trope and one could be the best thing ive ever read or could be something i lose interest in a couple pages in. Tell me what the actual story is about and then ill decide from there!
"You deserve to not read shit" ah... words of wisdom right there...
"im gods forgotten sim and my house is on fire"
i can tell this is going to be a good video
the persephone allegory doesnt work the way its meant to. while yes the persephone hades story is called the rape of persephone the rape art comes from one single telling found on an island that was a demeter cult worship location demeter was the mother persephone and was very mad about persephone going to hades and marrying him. but most other tellings that are from the cults of hades, thanatos, and persephone all have tellings where persephone willingly went to the underworld with hades. the part including zeus was only in the demeter cult story. so yes in some versions persephone was kidnapped but in most versions she was in love with hades.
You are most wise!!! I will appoint you as a scholar in my court!!!
I'd like to add that the word "rape" comes from the Latin "rapere" which means "to STEAL" rather than "to sexually assault", and that historically in many places, to assault a woman basically amounted to property damage. There's a classic painting based off a story or sth called "The Rape of the Sabine Women" which depicts the women being literally carried off by a bunch of soldiery-type dudes. Obvs they probably WOULD later be assaulted but.....idk it's just a word that was used differently in ~classical~ art and literature, so it doesn't reflect our contemporary usage.
Also, the story of Hades and Persephone was kinda supposed to be an explanation for the changing of seasons and the differences in nature, rather than a literal story about literal ppl doing literal stuff. Bc mythology was how humans made sense of the world around them before they had the benefit of science, research, etc. That doesn't mean it's invalid, it's just that us modern folks have to approach it differently when we try to understand and analyze it. And ofc there's the additional layers of culture, language, etc etc.
So basically what I'm saying is......a lot of these booktok authors are lazy, bad at research, or don't gaf about their audience 😅
Right after you said "I would like to fistfight Colleen Hoover in a Wendy's parking lot" I had to subscribe
Colleen hover’s body of work sounds like a poorly made wattpad fanfic written by a 12 year old.
don't insult the 12 year olds on wattpad like that
@@PersonstuckinMichigan You’re right, they at least try to put effort into their stuff.
I love your delivery, the way you talk is really calming and also super engaging ^^ the fact that you aren’t more popular is crazy, cant wait for your next video
oh and I love your miku figure mic XD
YOUR MIKU FIGURE AND MINE SHALL FEAST AT MY NEXT BANQUENT TOGETHER MY BELOVED SUBJECT
im dumb i misread the title and thought this was about colleen ballinger
THANK YOU so much for pointing out how lazy insta-love is. I often see it labelled as unrealistic and boring, both of which are true, but it’s the laziness that pisses me off most about CoHo.
Colleen Hoover, you’re worth over ten million dollars. Write like it.
the best pride and prejudice retelling is haikaveh from genshin impact (/j...... or is it.....)
hello fellow haikaveh fan 🫡
Very random, but your whole vibe, brutal honesty and sense of humor resemble the one of my fav literature professor. It felt as if I were experiencing one of her talks again, just about shitty romance books which made it feel like a fever dream. Gee I miss her so much.
all the time spent eagerly waiting for this video paid off bc GIRL U ATE. the way these books slot so well into the heteronormative, nuclear-family-supremacy genre of right-wing propaganda and yet that's seldom examined or brought up in broader critiques is so fascinating to me. and by fascinating i mean horrifying! you did such a thorough job on your dissection of these tropes, i'm glad this vid is getting the attention it deserves!
also, you're so brave for including my bf's voiceover in your video even though he's literally straight
MY MOST BELOVED CONSORT!!! Thank you, your words mean so much to me, the only reason I even bothered to finish this and post it was for you
Thank u so much for talking about the bioessentialism in fanfic!!! I hardly ever hear people talk abt this
coho male lead characters seek a therapist before hitting on women challenge (impossible)
But that's the point, it's obvious.
People who see Colleen Hoover as someone to take a beef to need to go outside, they're oblivious to the real world, it's a miracle they can cross roads without getting hit by a car
absolutely stellar recontextualization of those goodenzalez memes 10/10 no notes
Thank you, I try!
IVE JUST DISCOVERED YOUR CHANNEL AND IM INLOVE.
Also i cant do the side of book tok thats colleen hoover (if there are no colleen hoover haters then im dead) and SOME REALLY WEIRD BOOKS 😭 *cough* haunting adeline.
ALSO GIRL YOURE UNDERRATED ASF
in instagram there're a lot of her haters😈
wdy think about haunting adeline?
You are so beautiful and so smart! Subscriber for life!
this slayed!! i share about 99% of your opinions on this and I enjoy your humor so i'd be very interested to know what books you do love, I hope you pop off bc I really enjoyed this!
ONLY 99%????? GUARDS SEIZE THE DISSENTER!!!!
Using Miku as a microphone is so real.
I am like 1/5th of the way through the video and I'm hearing all the things I've been trying to pin down. I feel like a lot of "criticism" is just prudish sexism, just being mad that adult women like, shocker, mature fiction. It is kinda unsettling how casually sexist they are, but if you're buying it I'll assume you're hopefully mature enough to separate a fictional relationship and a healthy irl relationship.
What gets me is this scummy undertone I've always felt about these authors and publichers selling them. Describing it as "fast food books" is so good. Fast food is cheap and accessible and sometimes you just crave it; but it's also purposefully low quality despite what marketing might say.
When i read bad fanfiction, I know it was still loved. If I read a bad book, that went through ages of writing and editing, I know it was negligence.
Edit: I did not realize how unrealistically bad Colleen Hoover is as a writer and a person.
Your voice is so soothing to listen while playing games..❤ subscribed
"Not everything is for me, even though it should be" iconic, you deserve so many more subscribers!!!
6 months ago you dropped gold then only left me wanting more. Honestly the artistry in this is amazing the comedy, editing, delivery, writing just amazing please keep creating
The algorithm is a terrifying eldritch entity, but sometimes it suggests a creator you've never come across before and a phenomenal video.
Truly appreciated your whole approach and takes on this. There are so many, admittedly fun, but incredibly shallow videos that solely focus on the Wendy's parking lot of it all, but your analysis and threats of violence were a wonderful pairing. Definitely got a new subscriber and keen to check your other videos out.
Also, while you both totally have your own unique perspectives, there's something similar in the fun irreverent good times backed up by actual nuance and theory that makes me very happy I came across yourself and The Morbid Zoo recently. I can see anyone who enjoys your videos, enjoying Mariana's and vice versa.
the fact you only have one video. i wanted to binge a new find 😭😭 i will be here for your glorious return 💕
So, seeing as a TON of people are not educated enough on sex, and these books are the only source they have it’s even worse.
Also for the record the blue ball thing is 100% a real thing but should NEVER be used as a reason to do anything.
It’s a response to being aroused but not something so painful we “need” relief, and even if so, we have our own options.
Please never forget that you hold the right to say no. If he doesn’t accept it he’s not worth it.
patiently waiting for another video to drop.
i love these essays and your sense of humor.
HOW DO YOU HAVE SO FEW SUBS??? I just discovered your channel and I'm already in love with it, your content is just great!!!❤❤
there is something so wonderful about this being your first video (what i can see anyway). the frustration and anger that came from this is so palpable. love this for you.
With the quality of this video, I thought you’d be a bigger channel! You bring up some good points, and your voice is really nice. Subscribed
I used to read a lot of septiplier fanfic and tbh, Colleen is worse than most of the sludge I read on Wattpad
Edit. I have that exact Miku figure but she lost her ears lmao
Most fic is indeed better than Colleen Hoover books, my most beloved consort Julius Ceasar
for a second I thought this was a video dunking on Colleen Ballinger, and I was fully willing to believe that writing tasteless romance novels was one of the many things she’d gotten in trouble over this year.
It's like some people can only write about hard kinks and sexuality instead of a loving relationship with intimacy and sensuality. Too much toxicity when we can show the SEXIEST thing "healthy consensual relationships with good communication and trust." You can have all the hardcore sex you want, but you need to write aftercare and reassurance.
don't get me wrong, this books are ass and what you're saying is nice
but "healthy consentual relationship with good communication and trust" is not the sexiest thing and you absolutely don't NEED to write aftercare and reassurance
you can write about your kinks, sexuality and hardcore sex with anything sweet in it and maybe it would be the best thing for some as writers as long as what they write is well thought, developed and at some point profound
Sweetness, healthiness and correctness are not obligations
it IS tho. @@NuwandaLunaDragon "sexy" makes you feel good with yourself and in your body. consent & aftercare should be the bare minimum tf
I adored this video!!!!! You raised some excellent points, while also making it entertaining as hell. Bravo, and I can't wait to see what you do next
Thank you my loyal subject, you will be given a seat of honor at my next banquet!!!!
Came for the ultimate Colleen Hoover teardown, went amazed for the essay on women's desires portrayed in romance books.
This is a deeply impressive video, especially for being what seems like your first one??? Your lighting, audio, props, presentation, script, and editing are all as good if not better than any of the big Video Essayists.
I don't know if you plan on making more, but you should at the very least be super proud of how this turned out!
"shawty you have a p*rn addiction" isn't what I thought my first take away from this video, but it really hit hard. I read a lot of comfort fanfics so it technically isn't p*rn - but now that I think about it, I rely on them for serotonin just like an addict. I had to pause the video to reflect on myself lmaoo.
Your mention of "fast food fiction" reminded me of a discussion I had with a friend a while back on the focus of tropes and bad novels on booktok. I'm pretty convinced the wave of trope-based writing you're discussing is also tied to the controversy of writing TV scripts with AI. Tropes, whether in movies or books, are pretty formulaic. If a company can get AI to write shitty movie scripts by throwing a handful of tropes at it, it doesn't seem farfetched to see trope-centric writing as the publishing industry's adaptation of that business model. The work of the average author is downplayed, the product is "fast food fiction," and publishing companies can get away with putting less effort in a book's marketing because the formula is to put everything online.
"They cant possibly fathom why someone would write a story without focusing on self gratification" Yes oh my god.
Part of me wants to watch more videos on the cesspool that is BookTok and its discourse, but I really don't want to ruin what's left of my mental health for it.
The more I hear about bad published writing the more I realize that, Wattpad jokes aside, Wattpad fiction is in fact a lot better than the quotes you provided.
Thank you for making this video! It was really informative and I appreciate the time you took to dive into how bad this trend in publication is. Wish you all the best!
lmfao the absolute unhinged readings of passages in between are hilarious.
I just got randomly recommended this video and I don't know when the last time was that I was close to mentioned (fast-food romance) books....
But I like your video style and will prob watch more of em without having any real life context for them whatsoever
I was so surprised when this channel only had one video because you are so underrated and awesome 😭 cant wait to see more of you!!
First time finding your channel. Great stuff, can’t wait to check out your content. You have a terrific voice.
I read primarily 90’s sci fi, ive never even heard of most of what youre talking about, but you piqued my interest as soon as “fistfight colleen hoover” left your mouth
I really enjoyed this video and was sad to see this was the only one on the channel. Hope you make more videos, love your energy, humor and perspectives.
this is one of the most insightful analyses of the romance genre and its modern audience reception that i’ve seen in a while. definitely subscribed, looking forward to what you create next!
reached the target audience, im a hoover hater. just read verity and that is 4 and a half hours of my life ill never get back i fear
verity is the only hoover book i’ve read, i fell into the trap once, regret it, and i will not be reading any more!
I've also noticed something in these published books that uses something that only fanfic really can. With fanfic, the author can very reasonably assume that there is already some level of connection or understanding with the characters. Because, presumably, someone reading fanfic will have seen the source material and become attached to the characters, fanfic authors dont have to spend a lot of time establishing, building, and having the reader come to care about the characters. These authors take the assumption that you're already thoroughly enough attached to these characters that they don't have to spend time doing those things or building any form of humanity in these characters that makes them anything more than a trope on a page. With no baseline understanding of these characters they're using, there is nothing to build off of or compare to when the character goes through hardships or development which is why (i feel) a lot of these books feel so baffling when characters take certain actions because these is no *character* to reference back to or foreshadow what will happen.
Actually this is an editor thing. I wrote a piece about a character and half the piece spoke about the character's attachment to another character. The editor in question told me it's not a story and it doesn't mean anything, and that I have to remove the pretty moments from my story. Ma'am you do not know these characters and you do not know the story, how am I supposed to tell you that without those "pretty moments" so I can't fault that fanticification just editors who think explaining your world and characters is a waste of time. How are readers supposed to know the characters and the world if they aren't allowed to tell or show the audience.
i love love love your humor and references!!! i see that this is on of the first videos on your channel, and i want to say that i just love this video!!
How dare you only have one video. Your narrative style and research is so good I want you to rip apart more things
Just discovered your channel and I’m only ten minutes into the video ur great
i think pretty much all of TikTok is anti-intellectual.
Half way through the vid while I’m doing laundry and I got jumpscared by the Stray Kids reference 😭 amazing video so far! Getting me through my chores lol
so glad this ended up in my recs, i love your style and humor and thoughts !! really nice video overall !!
i see colleen hoover hate i click
As much as I agree with your points, it is important to remember that literature snob who said that "Terry Pratchett's books are trash even though it is okay to eat trash if one has no other food"
Telling my friend about how good this video is in real time, only to drop my phone when Felix appeared
I was so hyped for more but this is your first video? How!? 🎉❤ Amazing instant sub
basically i'll go back to rereading Terry Pratchett and attempt to scrub the words Colleen and Hoover and Lily Blossom Bloom from my brain with soap and lighter fluid
It’s always the Colleens huh?
real 😭
every time I see the name Colleen I get scared 😭
Is this really your first video on this channel?! It's so well done! I love your editing style and humor so much, can't wait for what you do next!
This is so SPOT ON.
When it comes to romance, 99% of what I've read is cishet (bc I'm AFAB and like men its easier to relate to), but oh my god, NONE of them are good. It's always an instant spark or crush based only on the fact that it is a man and woman. There is zero development of a platonic relationship or romantic relationship that holds any meaning. A lot of them should honestly just be put under the Erotica genre, which is 100% okay. If this is your kink, it's fine, but when the book doesn't establish that it's mainly for kink purposes or satisfying someone's personal fantasy, then it gives the message that this behavior is normal and just how romance is without any kind of consent or discussion between the parties involved. Like I came for real romance with development and true connection, for FEELING, for PLOT. Make me sob with how in love they came to be, how their story grew, that's what I believe the romance genre should be. Which just doesn't really happen in cishet romances.
In short, if you want true romance, read queer romance.
Some other harmful ideas these books spread is that the woman's "first time" is supposed to be painful and bloody.
Hello, as a fanfic writer who makes fanfics and one shots for male and no binary people, if you are a cishet person, please, the least you could do is learning about queer culture, trans experience and more, or, just don't, cause a 8 times out of ten it comes off as fetish fanfic and more
'Tis true!!!! And very important to research in order to avoid harmful and dehumanizing stereotypes!!!
@@shriekingshrew3804What if I decided to isolate myself from other people for the rest of my life?
I didn’t want to create a story for the sake of representation. I wanna make a story with what I know or interested getting into (queer couples and knights) naturally. Even then I realized there are signs of fetish and sexualized moments(consumed too much ship content)
Now I’m scared to do so for myself because of that, and it creates another reason to avoid such genres (romance) in general. It makes me cringe, guilt, and awful.
How am I suppose to avoid that, or redeem myself? I haven’t physically DONE the writing like others do, and have no intentions to, yet I feel utterly embarrassed and ashamed by this when I’m reminded that it’s wrong.
I might as well create a super PG absent asexual mindset for a while. 💀
I dislike doing fan fiction, I wanna make my own original story with queer characters, even if I’m not queer myself, nor heterosexual (I don’t know who or what I’m attracted to, all I know is that I like daydreaming of original fictional men of my own).
Please don’t get me wrong, I love healthy relationships, I think it’s a good idea. I love complex and fleshed out characters, even doom and gloomy stories. It inspires me to make my own, especially genres that I like. But now? I don’t feel okay to be a artist or a writer of anything because of what I’m seeing online like this video.
I already don’t trust myself in a lot of things in life, even if I shown proof that I can and capable of doing great things. But writers like that? Especially writing with queer people by cishet women or girls for the wrong, selfish, and unorganized reasons? Fetishized and sexualized? Just made me feel even worse about myself and others.
Never have I been more disappointed than discovering this channel only to see that there are literally no other videos on it. Seriously though, I would love to see more if you have a desire to make it!
Amazing video! You're extremely funny and the rhetorical value of the video was also fantastic. I was so surprised seeing that it was your first and only video on your channel.