If you like this video, you might also like this one I made exploring when exploitation is ok in film and television told through the lens of true crime and the Netflix Jeffery Dahmer show: ua-cam.com/video/RmiEtfeGc9o/v-deo.html Or this one looking at the messy behind-the-scenes of Steven Spielberg's forgotten Jurassic Park spin-off, We're Back: A Dinosaur Story: ua-cam.com/video/RKOhw8NZpXg/v-deo.html Or here is the In Defence of playlist if that's what you're into: ua-cam.com/play/PLqStSJhv1GeS_4n1Fw7I-mbgo1s_QDtFF.html
“while bojack and everyone else makes the audience comfortable being broken, diane makes the audience uncomfortable that they’re not doing anything about it.” harsh truth
I love the writing in this show, we expected bojack to fuck things up and be a shitty person you know what you're getting into. we held Diane to a standard she held herself too wich you can tell was effective and intentional. They see her as A massive hypocrite. She's the hero of the tale trying to do what's right for everyone but one thing that I liked about this storytelling is almost always about the hero's own conflict is, If Diane is everyone's hero and pillar of support who's saving her when she crumbles?
It was a moment that really hit me. Diane was vulnerable for a moment and shared something special with him, something that was her secret, and she handed it to Mr. PB, trusting him to keep it safe for her, and he made a massive deal about it, and shared it with the people he hired to put it together for him. Especially considering Diane’s history of surprises (just look at her brothers surprising her with their homeless man pretending to be her pen pal, or the ‘funeral’ plans they made for their father etc) I was entirely unsurprised when Diane lost it in that moment, bc it made perfect sense if you followed her character’s setup. What Mr. PB did was basically the equivalent of completely taking apart and reconstructing a cherished childhood keepsake after being given it to look at/hold. Diane wanted him to share the item with him, not have him completely take over and revamp it into a version that makes sense to him. And I can’t believe people call her out for it like it was unreasonable. Her outbursts of anger and discomfort around situations that trigger her (being left alone at parties, being surprised with big elaborate things/events, not being consulted before life changing decisions within her relationships etc) can all be traced back very easily to her childhood trauma, and acting as if it’s unreasonable for her to not want to participate in those things because “they’re just (parties/surprises/etc) chill out” is so dismissive, bc you wouldn’t tell someone with war PTSD to just “get over” being triggered by fireworks sounding like gunfire, or someone with survivors guilt who lost someone in a car accident refusing to be driven anywhere bc they need to be behind the wheel to feel safe, etc. you’d understand, and if you didn’t understand, you’d still respect their boundaries and you wouldn’t call them irrational or overly sensitive etc. Diane exhibits very obvious fight/flight/freeze tendencies throughout the show depending on how well she can handle/cope with each situation. She often chooses fight (in this case, arguments = fight) with things like surprises/parties with Mr. PB or Bojack, she chose flight when dealing with stuff like Cordovia and her own insecurities and failures, and occasionally we can see freeze/meltdowns, like at the prom when she just sobbed, or failing to write her book etc. in fact, the way that she changes stress response based on the differences in the situations makes her MORE realistic, not badly written or inconsistent. People don’t react to the same trigger the exact same way every single time, bc often the trigger happens in a variety of situations, all of which have their own obstacles to deal with, so the subconscious picks the first one that has the easiest path at the time and guns it.
I understand that but Mr. PB wanted her to feel like the house was her’s too. The entire time they were buying the house she just seemed disconnected. It felt that way the whole time they were together. I’m not saying PB was right but it felt like he tried because he was scared she was gonna leave. That whole marriage felt a little one sided because she constantly seemed like she wanted to be unhappy( I know that’s not the case). But I like Diane she alright, but she just constantly forces this unhappiness instead trying to figure it out
@@siniayab.6816 at the time I wrote this I was only on the beginning of season three so I understood Diane was depressed and my opinion changed a little
@@KateNord he does and enjoys things outside of work. He bikes and has a band. He just cares about being professional. Plus if you like someone you want to be around them.
It also doesn't make sense to hate her for it when she struggles just as hard to meet her own standards as everyone else does. Like yeah, she's hypocritical, but so's everyone except for Sarah Lynn.
I think a lot of the hatred also comes from the fact that in most shows, Diane would be the "mother/angel" figure who would only be there to try and help Bojack be a better person. In that role, she can't have flaws. What's brilliant about this show is that the writers refused to take that route, and instead made Diane a fully human character with her own shitty behaviors. But the audience isn't used to that, and I think most of this Diane hatred comes from their confusion.
Thank you, we constantly see a character telling everyone else that they are shitty, meanwhile no one mentioned once to her that she was shitty she was too, people just dont like hypocrites, it has nothing to do with gender
@@deepdaddy1208 it has everything to do with gender. Bojack does the exact same thing, he calls people out all the time, and yet he's a horrible person himself. Diane is aware of how shitty she is, there's an entire episode about it when she's writing her novel. Bojack even outright says that he and her are the same person. The only difference is that he's a man, and he's seen as sympathetic, while she's a woman, and seen as whiny or selfish.
@@hopoffmydick9574 People don't like Dianne because she's a preachy hypocrite who thinks she's better than the people around her. People don't like being preached to. It has nothing to do with gender, if Dianne was male I wouldn't like her anymore. Dianne gets better but it takes a very long time. That and she is the writer's mouthpiece.
I loved Diane, she’s one of the few female characters I’ve been able to connect to. Her character was written as a person and not a two dimensional mother figure we’re used to seeing in her place. A lot of people in the comments have brought up how people have projected their own issues on to Diane and I agree; Diane was not written to fix Bojack and she refuses to do so as the show progress, this clearly has pissed audience members off because they see it as her neglecting Bojack rather than seeing that it’s not her job to fix him.
this is so true. diane actually has depth and more to her then just mental illness or looks which i really appreciate. and this is so true, even at the end i was like why can’t they just be friends why is she being like that but then i had to realize how much bojack out her through and see she was just trying to be okay and be happy
I thought about a similar topic while rewatching BJH and realized that a lot of people who hate diane are because they relate their bad decisions and desires to Bojack's in the show. Which brings us back to why people hate her, they are mad that she didn't save bojack because they want someone like diane to save them and it hurts to see the true reality that no one is made simply for the fact of saving or fixing a person. People on this planet are not objects to own or play with, which was a huge plot in Bojack. Everyone has their own life that does not revolve around bojack or the viewer. So the people who hate diane need to look further into their life and figure out why? Perhaps they have a diane in their life?
i think it has a lot to do with the way people villainize female characters that aren't 2d sex objects or mother figures. especially if they share similar flaws as a beloved male character
@@marcuspolzer5335 At the beginning of the show I thought I hated Diane, and then I realised that her character was the one i resonate the most with, and the explanation to why I had so much of her attitude after Cordovia was because I didn't want to admit to myself that I would’ve done the same exact thing in her situation.
@@giorgia2533 I was scared that she would end up being a MPDG who only served to support Bojack so I was pleasantly surprised with the direction her character development went. There were times where I didn’t understand her outbursts and toxic behavior. But looking back I was going through those same things and just didn’t realize I was doing it too. Ex- the Belle library scene. I’ve had people in my family who try to do me “favors” that I never asked for, and sometimes those favors just inadvertently make my life harder. But then I feel selfish for trying to set boundaries and I guess I projected it onto Diane at first.
in a lot of ways I feel like diane was written to be the female counterpart of bojack with a lot of issues stemming from her childhood like bojack. except since she’s an asian woman she’s not allowed to act up like bojack when she’s confronted with her issues bc it would destroy her life. we can see this when she’s ridiculed for acting out even in small ways. so instead she’s forced to deal with and work through her issues all on her own. while she wants to be a good person it takes her time to work through her issues to do so and allow herself to be happy
She’s my favorite character. I watched the whole show across weeks without looking at commentary or anything, so I figured everyone also liked her. I was so wrong 💀
IKR, I watched the show recently with my boyfriend and when he told me that Diane was hated I was very surprised! I mean, I get why people don't like her, but she is very essential in the show and also is the one who says the most accurate things (how depression feels, why she is feminist, etc)
@@afaauu5573 none of the defense videos ever excuse anything. no one ever says anything shitty is okay because doing something shitty is never ever ever gonna be okay. understanding why it occurred though is always important if you’re ever going to understand someone as everyone does something shitty.
@@meli1872 they made fake love letters and when she thought she made a friend they invited a homeless man over and took a video of her humiliation and then replayed the video to laugh at it
In regards to her Post-Cordovia period staying at Bojack’s, I saw her breakdown as a form of PTSD. She literally watched people die in front of her. She was in a war zone. Even when Wanda wakes her up on the patio, her first words are her screaming “Kinko!” As if she was having a nightmare about his death. Don’t forget she grew really attached to him. She was more than likely mourning those people and processing trauma she experienced. That made her extremely human to me. She couldn’t handle being in a war zone and then felt immense guilt for leaving all those people to die.
@@batabidsdefinetely, it felt a little brushed off. They treated her more like: oh this lazy bum won't go home, what a mess. And made it about her issues. They should have delve more into the actual trauma she went through.
That too. I was actually kinda frustrated at Duane for not telling Mr Peanut Butter about wanting to come home, it would've definitely been hard but it's better than to lie for months about her being there. But the trauma thing totally makes sense, it would be difficult for her to come to terms with everything. I feel like even if she did lie, she could've discussed her trauma with Mr Peanut Butter, and it wouldn't have been a hindrance to their relationship and communication.
Dr. Mechano that’s what happens when you write realistic characters: there’s always going to be people that don’t like them because not everyone sees things the way they do
I was really surprised when I heard a lot people didn't like her. I thought she would be quite popular. Cause I felt she was a unique character. Coming from an abusive family she's the only character that understood bojack in a way that nobody did. And it scared her. Because she's aware that bojack is not a good guy. And she saw herself in him. The whole journey from seeing her as the "stable, good head on shoulders" character to realizing she's just as broken as bojack was quite amazing imo
Diane and Princess Carolyn are my absolute favorite characters, because of their self-awareness of how broken they are, but still trying to be better and help others be better as well.
@@bunersitoos she’s a hypocrite who knows it and uses that to justify her actions. Which is one the things she calls out bojack for. She is just a shitty person as bj except bj genuinely does try to be better. He goes to rehab. He makes amends where possible. And he makes it up to those people. He did a lot of shitty things but also every time he tried to be better something happened to him
@@sharkboydakid6340 I also disagree w her. Both bojack and Diane are shït, with the difference that bojack wants and tries to change. The only character that i totally love is Todd. Todd is the best 😏 also sorry if i misspelled something, english isnt my first language so XDD
No they are not, a hypocrite is simply a hypocrite and nobody likes a person who is inconsistent all the time especially with their beliefs. It's the reason religion gets a bad rap because it is literally a safe haven for hypocrites.
The Belle Room was superficial. It didn’t even have REAL books and the furniture had sharpie smiles on it. It was meaningless. Did Mr Peanutbutter even know what books Diane liked? Diane told him countless times she didn’t like big gestures. She told him she didn’t like parties and he threw her a crazy one on her birthday. He never listened to her. They did love each other, but divorce was inevitable since the proposal. Diane’s flaw is that she worries too much. She wanted to help others so her life had purpose. Naturally, she felt more hopeless when she realized she wasn’t strong enough to help a troubling world. Diane is such a human character. Not many people understand her because they don’t understand depression. At least in the way it manifests in Diane.
Right? I thought the scene was brilliant because it so perfectly underscored everything that was wrong in their relationship. All I could do while watching the scene was feel bad for both of them. Mr. Because he had, in theory, done everything right. He'd listened, closely, tried to do something thoughtful that was for her, and about her. And yet... She found it viscerally repulsive and even a bit violating. And I could see that she felt bad for feeling that way, and bad for making Mr. feel bad and bad for things always going that way for them. It was just a painful scene all 'round.
Yeah in that moment while I understood her visceral repulsion for that gift, I felt she was definitely being insensitive and brutal to him. She could have appreciated the extent to which he'd go with the sole intention of making her happy, which is something with value in itself, even if it was done in a misguided way.
The moment where she realizes that her inability to write her memoir means her damage wasn't good hit me really hard. I started the episode seeing the title and thinking, "You can't have good damage! What is this?" And then when they subvert the trope I suddenly realized that I absolutely didn't believe my own claim and it was like they were directly refuting me. As a writer myself, I definitely want to think any hardships I've faced will ultimately make me a better creator, and that episode was essentially just calling out the toxicity of this exact line of thought.
I didnt even think Diane was unpopular? Edit: reading through these comments reminded me people miss the point of this series and idolize Bojack for some weird reason
people idolizing bojack is really close to that scene after bojack's interview where he admitted to what he did in the sarah lynn incident. he became loved and sympathized
Sad people don’t tend to be good people. As someone who was once very sick with mental illness, I believe people idolise bojack because it makes them feel okay about letting their sadness come out in nasty ways
@@nanarobinson_ Yess beautifully put and a large majority dislike Diane cause she ALWAYS tries to be better than the next episode (although not always perfect and sometimes too depressed to do anything) She makes people feel uncomfortable cause she challenges changing for a healthier way of life
I never really knew anybody idolizes bojack...i mean why would they..but i always felt like people around me included felt sympathy for his character..
I relate to diane more than anyone else in these series, feeling like I have to be stable and help "fix" others who are broken, while finding out I'm horribly depressed and not meant to. Why do people hate her so much? Was she not allowed to be human and to want to better herself too?
Right? It so weird that Bojack, a horse, is given more grace. She should be allowed to mess up. We all mess up. No one is saying that those mess ups are okay but not valid to the point of literal hate.
It's really simple to see why people hate her. I'm sure you *do* understand, but you just disagree. Simply put, BoJack is the titular character and the protagonist of the series. Whether he's a 'good' or a 'bad' person doesn't really matter (and in fact a big theme of the series is figuring out these words are not really useful, since all characters are a mix), what matters is that he's the one driving the plot forwards. Inevitably, a lot of people are going to identify with this character purely because we are experiencing most of the events through him. Since Diane (and to an extent, many other characters) acts as an antagonist to BoJack, this will already make her more disliked simply by virtue of 'blocking' BoJack's actions. The rest of the dislike will come from a variety of sources: either people genuinely sympathise with BoJack or they have a genuine problem with people whose flaws are similar to Diane's (she's sanctimonious, meddlesome, yet at the same time craven and self-serving). There are good reasons to dislike Diane, even if you like her character.
Is there any metric to suggest Diane is the most hated? I've not spent that much time online, but I was certain that Mr. Peanutbutter was by far the least liked of the main characters, while Todd (too much of a comic relief) and PC (too much of an adult for the target audience to relate to) were pretty much just decent sidekicks. I always thought of Diane as the 2nd most important (and by far most likeable) character and I would find it really disturbing if there was really nobody appreciating her.
@@DerdiedasBlue honestly I think the issue is this person was looking on reddit forums, and I think the average user of bojack horseman reddit forums may be less likely to appreciate diane than the average bojack horseman viewer
that's always been a theory of mine. every time i have a sort of hate-fixation thing going for someone, I stop and wonder if that's because i see myself in them. so far it's proved pretty accurate
i felt the exact same thing. then for some reason after the final season came out she became my favorite character, which sort of made me feel like maybe there was some hope for me.
Diane made me realise a few things about my self, which was the main reason I hated her for so long. It wasn’t until the most recent episodes she became my most favoured character.
Ted Sava exactly!!! me being a girl who was put on antidepressants and gained weight as a result, chubby diane made me feel so much better about myself. her own "stupid piece of shit"-styled episode in the new batch of episodes was the first time i genuinely cried at a TV show
As the child of immigrants I loved her episode where she returned to her country. It explored a lot of the feelings I have... not fitting in while I’m in America but also not fitting in there... kind of having this middle ground culture where you don’t really belong anywhere
As someone who never learned about my Mexican culture I related to that hard as well. I’m half Thai half Mexican but look more Mexican. So culturally I fit in with Asian kids but I stick out like a sore thumb in terms of appearance. And when I’m around Mexican kids I look the part but know nothing of the culture
i’m japanese and born in america. i know a lot abt my ethnic culture including most of japanese which i’m very grateful for but i know that i will never fit in in japan because i wasn’t born there, i didn’t go to school there, etc. and u have done those things in america. i wish i was born in japan because it would’ve been easier that way and i prefer japan more because i grew up around my japanese family who immigrated here
@@rattttooooo but it’s disingenuous to presume misogyny as if that’s the only reason people will hate her. Sure I get what op was going for and there are misogynistic aspects to this Diane hate. But please let’s not use this as a “get out of jail accountability card” which is what assuming it’s all misogynistic does.
@@justjoshua5759 its not all misogynistic, and there is a whole video explaining that too, they havent even mentioned misogyny in it. But people are completely disregarding the side of this issue that is definitely misogynistic, whether people realize this or not. They just see the word and deem the opinion invalid. Its annoying.
“while bojack and everyone else makes the audience comfortable with being broken, diane makes the audience uncomfortable that they’re not doing anything about it.” i think this is the exact reason so many people hate her and love bojack! it’s the same problem we see in season 5 with philbert. it’s a running joke how alike bojack and philbert both are, with the set being exactly like his house, both characters dating sassy/gina, bojack constantly wearing the philbert outfit, etc. it gets to the point where he says that philbert makes him feel better about himself because he’s vulnerable, and it makes diane very upset because that’s never been the point. i always believed this was the production team breaking the 4th wall while adding to the joke of how similar they are. because he’s the main character we give him leeway, feel bad for him, and feel better about ourselves, and because she’s not we aren’t as forgiving. but you were never supposed to forgive him. you’re not supposed to watch bojack horseman and feel okay that you are the way that you are, same with philbert. you have to atleast attempt to change, like diane does. but that takes effort and makes us feel guilty, so instead we hate her because she is doing the one thing we won’t. she’s atleast trying, rather than “fetishizing her own sadness” like the rest of us.
How is she trying to change? The only positive change I can recall her making was taking anti depressants and deciding to write fiction instead of issues she cares about. Meanwhile we watch Bojack attempt to change over and over and just continue to fail. He tried rebuilding his childhood home (or something, cant remember) he went to rehab and got counseling. Diane thinks she is a good person who makes mistakes, Bojack thinks he is a bad person but desperately wants to change.
@@michaelvigil3436 First bojack doesn't appear to overcome his problems. Throughout the seasons we see him apologize for.. everything. Still he doesn't learn to overcome. Plus Diane is the one who actually made bojack attend rehab.
@I SadFace When did I say she was worse then Bojack? What does that even have to do with what I said? I think you just dont want to judge Diane as an individual so you only judge her based on Bojacks actions. As long as Bojack is worse than she is than any criticism of her must come from someone who is trying to convince themselves that she is worse than Bojack. Grow up.
@@meeraanil6083 First, if you are going to say "first" you should actually have a "second" thing to say. Second, the last episode makes it seem like he DOES overcome his problems but beyond that I dont see what "overcoming his problems" has to do with anything I said. My point is they Bojack is clearly trying to be a better person because he thinks of himself as a bad person who needs validation. Diane thinks she is a good person and its the world that's messed up and needs to change.
@I SadFace Giving out that vibe to only you apparently. You are giving out a sexist vibe that you only judge women based on the actions of the men around them. Someone talks bad about Diane and you automatically get a vibe that this person is saying she is a worse person then Bojack instead of just judging the character as an individual. Like its one thing to accept her as a flawed character but you seem to not even value her as an individual within the story, as far as you are concerned the show is about Bojack and every other character should only be viewed in contrast to the Bojack character.
Yea a lot of people love to hate on all female characters even though bojack tried to rape a teenage girl, gave a teenage girl alcohol poisoning, and tried to kill Gina by strangling her. But let's hate on Diane for having normal problems. Bojack sucks.
I, unfortunately, cannot ignore the rather simpler reason for the rejection of Diane and not Bojack- misogyny. She's the "crazy woman" and he is "misunderstood." She is supposed to better because women simply aren't allowed to be seen before they are "better". Even their imperfections must be positively charged like Princess Carolyn- constantly staying committed to fixing the Bojacks of the world, "killing it at work" by exhausting yourself and having an equally strong contrasting motherly instinct but the self sufficiency to do it alone.
@magnum but i believe that man are cut more slack and if they do both and are exhausted they are”super dads” for a woman that’s her job she’s a mother it’s expected of her ,not saying its gender wars out there but it’s more comfort coated for a man
Elitism and modern feminist ideals created this false patriarchy. You wouldn't have a pedestal to spit down on men if it wasn't for men to put you up on it. Or you could recognize objective reality and see some people are jerks, life isn't fair, and overall assholes succeed far more than nice people. Hope you grow past 101 feminist dance theory
"While bojack and everyone else makes the audience comfortable with being broken, Diane makes them uncomfortable that they're not doing anything about it." This is why Diane is my favorite character.
"She's supposed to know better, and yet she's deeply flawed and makes mistakes all the time 😤". Wow it's almost like the show is trying to say something.
@@strange0130 like bojack expected her to be her saviour, since he met her, he set the expectations in his mind, and in some way we did too. So when Diane isn't that...
Yeah, when Diane is first introduced, on a surface level you'd think that she'll be a "voice of the reason" character but around the season 2 it's kinda apparent that she's not
@@MrMik981 she is and she isn't a voice of reason the whole show is about characters and their flaws and how they try to do less shitty things and more good things like bojack horseman Pc etc because it's relatable that nobody is perfect and she tried to save other people before saving herself
I think everybody else in the show is so grotesquely broken that it makes the audience think: oh, at least i'm better than THAT one. Diane, on the other hand, is more realistic that it makes people see themselves in her too vividly. Also, it's easy to hate a solid, "cool" intellectual types, because people think they don't have issues, so when they say they have, others don't believe it and perceive it as 'whining'.
Everyone gets mad at her for rejecting gifts from peanut butter when she repeatedly tells him she doesn't like big gestures, she tried to communicate and he doesn't listen, it always made me mad that people blamed her for that
i know :( he should have known her better. And Mr Peanut butter repeatedly gaslights and guilts her when she’s disappointed by what he does, even though his grand gestures are selfish. She had the right to be mad about the Belle room.
Yeah. I had the same reaction. I know such situations from home where you are supposed to be grateful for big gifts you never wanted that were mostly just given to avoid an actual apology or real emotional attention i.e. actually listening. It took me years not to fall for the guilt-tripping anymore and even then it's still frustrating to communicate over and over again that I will not accept the gesture, although I get the good intentions because it still either hurts me or doesn't fix the previous hurt without an actual apology.
@@sombria13 I had to comment this lyric because I agree and you reminded me of it. "You think the money that you make can substitute the time you take." The first line of the bridge from J-Lo's "Love Don't Cost a Thing."
I feel like you also have to talk about the misogyny in the room. Not a single person calls bojack "whiny" or "bitchy" even though he does the exact same things and worse. He constantly whines about his life but ive never seen anyone call him whiny.
THIS. The thing I thought throughout the video was that people hate Diane because she is a woman, the two examples of why people hate her, when she crashed at bojacks house for a month or when she rejected the belle room, was both examples of a woman not trying to be someone else to please a man. she wasn't there to fix bojacks issues, but to run from her own for a while and just let herself be shitty and depressed and broken and her rejecting mr peanutbutters gift was getting of a codependent relationship with a man who didnt truly listen to her and expected her to be someone she wasnt. as a woman struggling with depression and with experiences like hers both familywise and relationdhip wise I saw a lot of myself in Diane. It was nice to have a female be unperfect. The month she crashed at bojacks house and was completely broken, unaible to care for others issues because her own felt too big, that felt empowering to me, I've been there many times. When bojack is too depressed and stuck in substance abuse to really help others(which he is throughout most of the show) that is ok, but diane has one big such and people call her selfish. It really shows how women are really expected to be there emotionally for men even when they are stuck in the same shit themselves. If we compare Diane to the other major female character, Princess Carolyn, she doesn't seem to get the same level of hate. They are both strong women dedicated to what they do, pc as an agent and Diane as a writer. They are both putting high expectations on themselves and have high expectations put on them by others. They are both lonely and sad but in different ways. The major differences between them is that PC doesn't her vulnerability as openly (she suppresses her emotions by overworking - again a very relatable female depression thing). While Diane have breakdowns, PC tries to be the perfect accomplished career woman. While I love them both and can relate to both in different ways, I think the misogyny of the audience is clearly showing in their treatment of Diane vs PC (or Diane vs the male characters).
@@masoncook4974 alot of ppl hate her ive seen it all over reddit and twt. the readon most of these comments are defending her is because nobody that clicked on this vid hated her in the first place. this video is literally defending diane so why would someone who hates her watch a video in defense of her
Bojack: betrays two best friends, assaults woman, pretty much makes girl die Mr. Peanutbutter: fracks under the house, almost killing wife and tens of people Diane: dislikes gift People on the internet: we gonna hate her
It's been stated a few times in this video that BlowCock HorseDick gets more sympathy than Dianne because he regrets making bad choices while Dianne really doesn't.
NeoSaigon What? How is that Diane’s fault Bojack was to stubborn to get a stunt double. With this back handed logic mr peanutbutter is to blame for Bojack addiction because he is the reason Bojack didn’t get a stunt double. Bojack already was struggling with addiction and as a wise Todd once said no one is to blame for Bojack shitty actions but himself.
i also hate how people think she’s a bad person for not being there for BoJack in the end, when he needed her the most. for once, he reminded her of herself as she was trying to get better and start her new life in Chicago and on top of that, she just didn’t want to support a literal abuser
I geniuenely think people are just acting stupid and like the point flew over their heads just to hate on her. Maybe not everyone but there must be. Please excuse my english.
She realized that he was never her responsibility. As she should. I’ve been Bojack and Diane and I’m very proud of her for how she handled that situation. Bojack is the personification of untreated mental illness and someone who doesn’t want to get better. Someone who’s afraid of not being miserable. Diane is the personification of someone trying to cope with and heal mental illness. She’s not perfect and she falls off sometimes but she always picks herself up when she does. She understands that recovery is not linear. Bojack has been content at rock bottom for a long time. It’s familiar to him.
@@StoutShakoFr and I’m p sure she’s the reason he was still alive. She woke up a few hours after and called 911. That’s the only reason he was able to be brought back. He drowned and died. She didn’t speak to him till the wedding because he purposefully traumatized her when he knew she was just starting to get her life on track.
I think people hate her because they project unto her the role of the female character who enables the main male character's character growth. They latch on to the moments where it feels like Diane wants to play that role, and they moan about the moments that go against it. Being someone else's step to character growth isn't a real thing, you're still a person with your own stuff going on and you can't subsume that just to be a rock for other people. Also, if being a hypocrite makes a character unlikeable, literally every BJH character is unlikable.
This is why I like Diane's ending. She has to say goodbye to Bojack because she realizes she deserves to be happy and doesn't have to feel bad all the time. It's a relationship that gave her purpose and I feel like sometimes she struggled to see beyond just what was happening in Bojack's life. In some ways he was her crutch for when things didn't work out for her. She always had him to loathe with and go back to when things weren't going her way. And when Bojack sent her that voicemail saying it would be her fault if he died, she easily could've ruined her life again and gone back to Hollywoo, but instead did the opposite. That's growth.
@@Ray03595 Yeah, I agree. I also think that she sees that Bojack is a heavy person to have around. You can see in the episode where they talk about what to say to the reporters that she reaches a tipping point when Bojack basically admits that he killed Sarah Lynn by giving her heroin, or at least making it available, but then denies it on the phone. I think in that moment she accepts the truth that she can be thankful for having known him, but that she's not going to stand by him for another of his self-serving toxic episodes. Diane got over her belief that having baggage makes a person more interesting and insightful, and she sees in Bojack that it sometimes just limits someone's ability for change. When I first saw the last episode, I thought that eventually, Diane and Bojack would talk again, but as I think more about it, I' changing my mind on that.
THANK YOU! You said it best! None of the characters are step characters for the “main” characters! We get an insight into all of their lives! They are all main characters. They are all Bojacks. We want to see Diane is the one that helps Bojack and when she doesn’t we feel let down, but that’s literally life! You can’t count on someone else for your happiness, that has to come from you, and it has to pass through all the negative shit we say about ourselves! Diane had her own shit going on, and instead of seeing how she is also struggling, we judged her for not being better for someone else.
I always liked Diane and understood the belle room thing right away, consider MPB has been acting obnoxious the entire season... don't understand why people thought the belle room thing was "just a gesture with nice intentions". MPB fracks his whole house 20 feet under but somehow it's all ok, because he never bothered to understand what consequences are? I don't get it.
fr shes always hated grand gestures and was upset with him for just doing things without talking to her first. her upset with the belle room made perfect sense to me.
What about when she hid from him for months on end and mr pb just forgave her. I don’t think being mad at a gift is ever okay, doesn’t matter that she doesn’t like it you just appreciate it, it comes off like a spoiled brat where she didn’t get what SHE wanted even though mr pb asked over and over to help make a room for herself in the house. I don’t think she deserves the hate but I just can’t understand someone defending her reaction, it was ridiculous and it showed he listened to her story and since she won’t make a room even though he really wanted her to he tried his best. I don’t think it was even a grand gesture it’s just a room in a house, chill and just move on. I just don’t get why she even dated him in the first place honestly they were just a bad match is all. If you want to make a good example of grand gesture she had a right to hate, I do think him claiming he stole the D was way over the top and completely uncomfortable for anyone to go through, if anything I’d prefer that was when they broke up and made more sense in reality.
@@joro8693 It's because Mr P is plain dumb. He doesn't understand the intellect and deepness of Diane. Diane is really deep and he just doesn't get her. He's a dumb dog. A cute loyal dumb dog who is also incredibly superficial. That what Diane lacked in Mr P and that's why she was always with Bojack. The perfect partner of Diane would be Mr P with his positivity but also with some Bojacks depth.
@@helloworld7818 i get that but i don`t think MPB was dumb. he was clueless until it came to something that would affect him negatively. remember how easily he picked up on BJH being a threat to Diane and his relationship in the first season? He just doesn't want to see how he is destructive.
I loveeeeeee Diane, she totally is the epitome of the struggles of a woman who’s aware and empathetic in a world that wants to alienate her and hate her for speaking the truth. Don’t put Diane down because she’s strong and doesn’t take shit. She’s the most morally-aligned character in the show tbh, besides Todd mychild :)
I think what makes Diane great as a characer is that her actions are ambiguous - she's righteous and while she is trying to create a better world and call out the bullshit she sees, all she usually does really is make her self miserable. I think this reflects an insight that even when we think that our actions are right and that we're standing up for our moral principles, really this can often be coming from a place of pain and sadness and that our struggling in futile and reactive ways to injustices we see in the world generally won't make anything better and may alientate people from us and cause us to miss out on the opportunity to address our own issues. In the end she is happy because she has accepted that she needs to look after herself and the anti-depressants have allowed her to see and address certain toxic parts of her life. I think she's an amazing character. Definetly there is a lot to admire about her as well but I don't think it's healthy to look to her as a role model or to see her as somehow morally impecable or unimpeachable. She's complex and messed up like many of the other characters on the show. But, at the end of the day, that's exactly what makes her so interesting and real.
Honestly I feel like the reason people hated Diane is because she didn’t sugar coat things. She was upfront and honest with Bojack when he was being a dick and not a lot of people like that.
@@Reykh24 Her "hurting" Mr. Peanutbutter thanks to her trauma was occasionally yelling at him when he didn't deserve it and then breaking up with him after it became obvious to her that their relationship was probably beyond saving. Bojack's version of hurting the people he loved was threatening his own suicide via asphyxiation to emotionally blackmail his girlfriend into admitting she cared about him, continuously leading on his longest lasting best friend with on again / off again romantic relationships, firing that same best friend when she a serious mistake because his latest crush told him to, abandoning the friend who made him famous and not talking to him until he was literally dying, nearly r@ping his friend's daughter, choking the fuck out of his girlfriend on a drug-fueled rampage, and then having sex with and enabling a girl he knew since she was 6 until she eventually overdosed and died. After setting up an alibi for himself and waiting 17 minutes to call the paramedics, of course! Because his clean image is more important than her DEATH. So, yeah, I can totally see the similarities! They're basically the same!!! /s 😒
She’s my favorite character. The high and mighty thing is incorrect. She is shown to hold herself to the same standards and self loathes because of it. I can’t believe that she would be the most hated character when Bojack literally sabotages his best friend’s rock opera, gets Princess Carolyn’s hopes up and then breaks her heart, fires Diane for writing “bad” about him, gets Kelsey fired, bails on Secretariat, almost sleeps with someone 34 years younger than him who is still in high school, sleeps with his best friend’s special friend, destroys Sarah Lynn’s sobriety and takes her on a bender that leads to her death, forces a fly to move on when he wasn’t ready then destroys the house they built together, calls his assumed daughter garbage, doesn’t believe a boy could actually be attracted to her, chokes Gina, and so many other things. Diane is not the bad guy. She has a complicated nature. I see myself in her.
To be fair, Sarah Lynn dosed on drugs on her own. She went 9 months sober because she thought drugs would effect better after being sober for so long. Hence why she hid the drugs inside her own home. Bojack was just there to dose with her.
And Bojack was right. Eddie needed to move on. Crying over spilled milk wasn’t going to help with anything. He destroyed his mom’s summer home, not his home. I agree with everything else you said, though. I don’t know why they would hate Diane if Bojack is twice the shitty person that he is. Don’t forget he abandoned Herb for 20 years and gave him a half-assed apology before he died.
I actually wonder if part of the reason people were forgiving of Bojack is because he was so terrible it's almost like his character isn't believable, most people don't know someone THAT messed up personally. Diane, however, is much more accessible, and seems much more real. Combined with the facts that she's a human and has a normal-sized head (Todd's head is huge, and he's shorter than Diane, plus his sequences are kind of fantasy-esque) got herself a college degree and was having trouble finding what she considered meaningful work especially in L.A., people can see themselves in her, or have someone like her in their lives, perhaps multiple people.
Nobody is a bad guy in the show. And the fact that boojack is a shiitty person doesn't make diane a better person so all the things you said are kinda pointless
@@itisjustacomment ? are u stupid ? "i hate something" is quite literally an opinion. you are saying you dislike something,,..,.. therefore hating.... get over urself
re: the “Belle Room” gesture. I can’t believe people think Diane’s reaction was unreasonable. how would you feel if you felt like your spouse never listened to you? they were together for 10 years ish and he never got it. there weren’t even any real books, showing how hollow and performative the act really was. good intentions don’t mean bunk if, had you been listening to your partner or friend or family member in the first place, you would have known it wouldn’t have actually meant anything to the recipient.
As he pointed out multiple times in the series (especially around the time they were getting that house) that he felt like they didn't truly share anything. He felt like she was just attaching herself to HIS dreams, moving into HIS house. He wanted to be a part of making her dreams come true. Now I'm not saying he didn't half ass the gesture or didn't pay enough attention but I still dont see how that makes her reaction reasonable. Again he actually told her multiple times that he was trying to make a shared dream with her, she never told him that actually fulfilling her childhood dreams would ultimately ruin those dreams and their relationship.
@@michaelvigil3436 If Mr PB felt that way there were other ways to express it than doing something she directly said she didn't like. Like talking to her abt how he felt and coming to a mutual agreement on how to make the house feel more like theirs than his. Instead PB did what he always did and assumed what he wanted was what everyone else wanted. There was zero communication
@@Actualkon What are you talking about? He had that exact talk with her when they were driving to Hawaii and once before that even. He explained that he felt like they didnt share anything together and that she was just attaching herself to his life. He said it made him feel like she had a foot out the door because since they didn't share anything she could easily just leave and move on to the next thing. When they were talking she told him that she always wanted a Belle room (not that it was a fantasy) and he tried to give her that. I dont see how you can say he should have communicated when he clearly did that multiple times.
@@michaelvigil3436 its been a bit since I've seen the show tbh. From what I remember she never agrees to the library being built. Neither of them came to an agreement on how to solve the issue. Yes she didnt say it was a fantasy, but if he already knows she doesn't like big gestures he should've realized she wouldn't like it. On top of that I think the library was one of many of these situations where PB didn't listen, and while on its own it might not seem like a big deal, it was part of a pattern. In the same way with his ex wives, leaving someone alone at a party or letting someone in a mummy costume near them isnt cause for a relationship to deteriorate, but PB does these things repeatedly
@@michaelvigil3436 I think PB simply doesn't listen, he's very much the kind of guy who believes he can make everyone like him. He's not an inherently bad person just that he tries to hard to fix things for other people without fully understanding what's wrong in the first place. Imagine your partner expressly told you they don't like these big gestures, you could share interests by developing a genuine passion for or at the very least just be comfortable with their hobbies/dreams but instead he focuses on the material things his own success is able to give them. He does it out of fear of abandonment. It can feel patronising to the other person to feel like they're always going to be babied by their SO. Being a pretty bird in a very well kept cage doesn't mean that bird ever stops wanting to fly. I don't think Diane was being unreasonable, I think like a lot of people her age in a situation like hers(barring super rich TV star bf), being reminded that they can't achieve anything on their own really fucking sucks and it's even worse when you're already depressed, this used to mess me up a lot when I was younger and didn't fully realise I might be depressed. I ended up lashing out or being petty because of it.
Diane for me is one of the best tragic characters because her struggles are relatable for me. I didn't find her issues to be overly dramatic; she's not a self destructive celebrity hooked on drugs, she's someone setting themselves standards and struggling to meet them. Who doesn't do that? Her self reflection episodes are as meaningful as Princess Carolyn's. Love seeing someone defending this character.
The second Diane was introduced, I was like “People are going to hate this character”. Not because I didn’t like her, because I love Diane’s character personally. I think she’s very complex and nuanced and is a fantastic character to balance out the show and make the characters more relatable and real. My first thought towards people not liking her, however, stems from the fact that whenever there’s a character like Bojack, when it’s a male character it’s received as funny, relatable, complex, and people like the IDGAF attitude. Whereas whenever there’s a female character like Bojack, in this case Diane, they’re almost always denounced for being whiny and hypocritical and a bitch. I’m not saying anyone does this because they actively hate women, I’m saying this seems to be a bias that many people have deep in their subconscious. God knows I’ve had it for the majority of my life. Had I watched this show even just a year or two ago, I probably wouldn’t have liked her either. I had to acknowledge and actively change my own internal bias, and it was difficult. As a woman, I didn’t WANT to admit that other women pissed me off more than men. I always tried to pass myself off as “not like the other girls” and condemn other women for just being who and what they wanted. For looking however they wanted to look. For acting however they wanted to act. For talking however they wanted to talk. And I feel like Diane’s character encompasses that; the idea that you need to look at yourself and make changes. You judge others harshly, and have to turn that same lens on yourself and make judgements about yourself as well. Whereas, Bojack was more of a “this is just the way I am so why change it this is out of my control” kind of guy (at least in the beginning...I’m not saying that’s how his character stayed towards the end). But also, I think that’s part of what the writers intended. Bojack is rich and privileged and he could get away with a lot more than a woman in his same position would be, and that is reflected in the fan reaction to her character. I believe this is intentional, and the writers are GOOD at delving into shit like that and exploring it. I’ve found that the people who say they hate Diane are often people who have unresolved issues and are angry at the way her character points out that yes, it’s okay to have flaws, but you have to actively work to get better and overcome them. Whereas the people who like Diane as a character are people who have grown and moved past their traumas and strive to be better, mistakes and all. No one is telling you to be perfect, they’re just telling you to be mindful and to work on yourself. Everyone works through these things at their own pace, and it’s okay to not be there yet. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as you make an effort to be better. To DO better. It’s okay to do bad things sometimes. It’s okay to make mistakes. No one is perfect, and Diane isn’t either. That’s the point. I think you said it well in this video. Thank you!
all the charecter are whiny, hippocratical, self destructive, and often horrible but that’s what makes them so real. i think the people who hate diane so much hate her because they see themselves in her.
if you like all of what you see, and you relate to the character, then you like Diane. But if you don't like what you see and you relate to the character, then you don't like Diane.
Diane is my favorite character because bojack reminds me of myself too much and Diane is too similar to the girl who saved my life and so Diane was that girl to me and so Diane was happiness and goodness to me
Honestly it's people hating characters like Diane that remind me that the majority of people can't tell what high functioning long term depression looks like or how wide it's impact can span and the sacrifices people need to make to be stable after crashing from seeming put together not even to mention the mood shifts it can cause
Honestly, the whole library thing just made me mad. Not at Diane, but at Peanutbutter. Through the series we see here tell him more than once that she doesn't like the grand displays of affection. And time and time again, we see him to something over the top, because that's what he likes, that's what he wants. I get that he just wanted to show her love, in a way that he thought was best. But that just wasn't her. He never listened.
Finally! I remember thinking this. I get that when it comes to gift giving "it matters most if it comes from the heart", but she did tell him she was uncomfortable with grand gestures. I remember cringing at the engagement scene when he brought in all of those people.
Two completely different love languages. He does unbelievably obnoxious grand gifts, she does personal moments where she gets high as a kite and vividly describes what he means in her life. Doesn’t make him or her bad for that.
To be fair, all the characters are bad people in their own right. As for unrelatable, I think people hate her because she’s too relatable in a not fun or fantastical way and that’s scary to them.
@@jacknightingale4428 PC is awesome but I would not call her good per say. She is a hard worker and she is admirable and skilled at her job. that being said she does whatever it takes to advance her career in most cases. She can be a bit cut throat. I think with Diane she actually tries to make the world a better place. Through her blog, through going to the forgin country. Even if she fails she still tries to make the world better.
When watching the show Diane is meant to be flawed like everyone else at first she seem like the voice of reason but in the last two episodes of season 1 we saw the real Diane and the point of the other seasons was meant to show Diane thinking she was making a effort even know some of it was for herself and i don't really see her as a complete hypocrite but as a person who tries to get everyone to see what she wants and uses stuff as a weapon to get what she wants like the gun story
it's wild to me that people will rake diane over the coals when, most of the time, her bad behavior is so, so much less outwardly destructive than bojack's. diane can be callous, sometimes, but bojack is downright cruel and thoughtless towards others. they both use their mental health issues as a crutch, but while bojack uses it to excuse his behavior (especially toward the beginning of the show), diane uses it as fuel to genuinely want to change/make change, even though she doesn't have the tools to do so. i think that both of them show how the same background can manifest in two different ways, and the reactions to them -- both from characters on the show and the fans -- show how eager we are to forgive certain people for their objectively awful behavior and not others.
Which is why it waa great when they talk for the last time. They bettered themselves at the end...even if they both still have a long way to go. But they're on track now.
Same to me. To be honest, when I watched the show, I didn’t understand bojack, he seemed kind of alien to me. A little bit hostile, because he wasn’t working on his problems.- or at least not in a direction in which I would do... so I understand Diane more, because I have a similar set of subconscious programs throughout life. Or maybe the way we make choices is similar, in general. To be honest I just understand her more. Good comment
I’m going to be blasted for this, but I think we can learn a lesson in self improvement from Diane. Rather than wallow in her own moral filth and just accept that she can’t become a better person, Diane uses her family’s treatment of her as fuel to her fire to improve herself. I mean, I for one could learn a thing or two from her about moving on from the past and pushing yourself to be better. I wish I had the strength she does to silence the voices in her head. I honestly wish I did.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios I just want to say, you seem like a cool person and I hope and trust that you'll achieve your goals. I don't know how to put it less awkwardly, but there's just something very sympathetic about what you said and as it's probably pretty rare to get that vibe from YT comments, I thought it worthwhile to let you know. Take care
I really like and appreciated your defense of Diane. Personally one of my favorite characters in the show because I do feel she is just as broken as Bojack and as you say, has been trying to improve herself through therapy, ending a relationship, etc etc. It doesn't work out for Diane and she does play the role of the voice of reason but she tries. In trying and repeatedly failing, she shows that change is hard, which is never popular. I learned something valuable after the Belle room scene. I didn't get it at first, but that was her dream, and her goal. She has every right to grow and struggle to try and achieve her dream without it being handed to her. Despite it all, she sticks to one of her core values which is helping her friends and trying to remain loyal in those relationships, even if at times she can be disloyal to herself and at the expense of others. Great take!
@@ArianaAlexis it's not about that, men or women people are people. it doesn't matter that men have done more atrocious acts each person is there own and shouldn't be generalized by sex or race. Also it just seems that more people associate with Bojack more than Diane because more of the audience have similar parallels to bojack and may have done horrible acts as him or acted like him more
@@ArianaAlexis umm no I'm female and men get significantly longer and harsher sentences whilst women get excused for our disgusting and shitty behaviour
Honestly I feel like everyone who hates Dianne are split cleanly in to two halves: they hate her because they're a Bojack or they hate her because they are also Dianne
I think part of it also has to do with how her immigration status was handled by the writers. I really liked her trip to Vietnam, but I almost thought it would have been better if the parents or a parent had a stronger connection to their culture. That or specify they're 3rd or 4th generation so that her being completely disconnected makes more sense. She calls herself an immigrant, but it has no impact until that trip.
@xxsniperkittykatxx I'm not an immigrant so I can't talk from experience, but wouldn't it make sense for it to not be impactful all the time if she was born and raised in America, I'm sure it's different for all kinds of immigrant people though.
That's crazy that people cite her slumming it at Bojack's as the reason why they don't like her character. I never liked her more than that moment. She was finally taking a break, and not worrying about being a hero for anyone or sticking up for what is right (and constantly being putdown/neglected/marginalized for it) and just truly thinking about her self and what she actually wanted to do in the moment. We saw multiple times on that show that bojack would slum it up or go on a bender, regardless of what other people had going on in their lives. And I thought in a weird way, it showed that they had a true friendship. That bojack was the only person that she'd feel comfortable being truly pessimistic and kinda destructive around. And the fact that she was so ashamed about how she couldn't handle Cordovia that she lied and hid from her husband because she was so embarrassed, idk it just made me really appreciate her character honestly.
Also people act like coming back from a war-torn country where you saw children dying in bombings isn't traumatizing enough to justify her slumming for months. She was fucked up from that. I feel like most of us would be.
@@xoTalim Tbf I don't think people were mad that she left they were mad that she went to Bojack's instead of going to see Mr. Peanutbutter and didn't tell him for months
@@mikemorro140 She wanted to self-loathe though, which she cannot do with MRPB, but can easily do with someone like Bojack. I mean, yeah it's wrong that she kind of brought Bojack down with her a bit in that situation, but again, all these characters are flawed. The fact Diane didn't go to MRPB just proves that he doesn't really get her either. Bojack may get her more but they are still a recipe for disaster and play off of each others insecurities far too much to be functional.
@@mikemorro140, not inherently, no. But it was *related* to an issue with Mr. PB, which became an issue for his and Diane's marriage as well. Mr. PB refuses to acknowledge negative emotions. Whenever Diane tries to talk to him about serious things (like she'd have to do when she came back from Cordovia), he shuts down and changes the subject or just straight-up walks away from her and pretends the negative emotions don't exist. It's an extremely toxic trait that becomes more apparent as the series goes on, and the reason Diane went to Bojack instead is because she knew that going to Mr. PB with her feelings would be useless. He would just walk away like he always does.
"She makes people uncomfortable for not changing, that's why people don't like her" When a person makes another realize that something they are doing is wrong, they lash out at that source, state they are bad for doing so and ostracize them. People don't want to be better, they want to be told everything they are is okay and to be coddled. This is actually why I like Diane over many in the show because she is against the easy way of existence and makes people realize there is something wrong.
Same and this is why I was so shocked seeing this like I never knew people despised her so strongly. If anything I love her for the reasons everyone hates her for because I feel represented by her. The whole show I couldn't get over how much I related to her especially after never really seeing a character portraying anxiety (at least the anxiety disorder I experience) the way she does, it really is validating. It might be more validating knowing there's people who despise or don't understand why she does the things she does because I've been met with that same constant shutdown and lack of understanding from others. Idk I can't speak for everyone with GAD and I don't remember if the show says she has an anxiety disorder but she's probably one of the most relatable characters for that alongside the main character of spirals all the way down. sorry for the paragraph lol
That second to last sentence reminded me of “In this world you can do things the easy way or the right way. You take a boat from here to New York. You gonna go around the horn like a gentleman, or cut through the Panama canal like some kind of Democrat?”
The funny thing is the viewers who lash out at her are missing the point entirely. Throughout the series, we watch her be a source of needless ridicule for calling out the failures of others - exactly what's being done in real life. We see it constantly with Bojack, but also when she called out the Bill Cosby parody character and many others.
I liked Diane as a sort of anti-Bojack. While Bojack always wanted to be better, he was perfectly willing to take the easy way out whenever offered to him, whereas Diane more often than not takes the difficult route of trying to prove herself and failing in different ways. But at the end of the day, I never doubted that Diane has a good heart. Bojack oftentimes gave me the vibe that, while he wants to do better, that desire was purely driven by his narcissistic need to prove to himself that he’s a good person, not out of the actual desire to be better.
I'm not disagreeing with any of this but Sarah Lynn got sober for the whole point of relapsing. Bojack was not going to dissuade her from that course but his efforts to cover his own ass may have cost Sarah her life. Diane is the only character I can 100% like because she's genuinely trying to be a good person in an awful world.
This is the strongest point Ive seen in Diane's defense, you're right, she's a very caring person and probably did help Bojack with his issues the most out of anyone in the show- including Bojack himself.
@@kaedenparten9126 I feel as tho Diane had no obligation to the relationship that ended due to them cheating. It takes two and one of them had a promise so imo the fault falls on them. The other was basically doing what single people do. I’m not saying she was completely right but justified in the right that she didn’t owe anybody anything atp
@@lundellsimmons756 well i suppose we just fundamentally disagree on that issue, because I think that if you KNOW you are cheating with someone you are in the wrong just as much as they are for doing it. Respect your opinion though
Most characters can have some crazy and messed up justification for their actions. Heck, you can, “justify”, Beatrice’s bad actions on her childhood and husband. However, that isn’t the point, the point is that just about every character, while having a bad backstory to explain why they are broken, they still will do horrible things and hurt people. Diane is a bad person throughout most of the show, Diane knows she is a bad person, that is the point. Yeah, you can easily point to her backstory and say, “this is why she is like this”, but you can do the same for PC, for Bojack, for Beatrice, and more. Yet, that doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t good people.
Most of the time, people hate Diane for the same reasons they understand and feel bad for Bojack, or call him “relatable”. No one in the show is perfect but she gets the most hate mostly for being a woman and having flaws that don’t benefit others, like Princess Carolyn’s compulsive need to help everyone else.
"While Bojack and everyone else makes the audience comfortable with being broken, Diane makes the audience uncomfortable that they're not doing anything about it." This is so perfect! I have friends who have said they didn't like Diane on the show. I never disliked her, and then on my 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, 5th...etc...) re-watch, she became my favorite character. I've defended her to them by saying that she actually tries to be better and wants her loved ones to want to improve. But like everyone in life, they sometimes fail, but she does her best to pick her self back up even if she doesn't have the best support structure. (MPB is optimistic to a fault and ignores actual issues, BJH will spiral downwards with her, PC might help but will do so by seeing how she can benefit from it as well). For me, my favorite summation of Diane was her conversation with Stefani Stilton. SS: You know what your problem is? You hold everyone to an impossible standard. including yourself. It's super helpful for writing hot-take shakedowns and click-bate take-downs, but totally toxic for your personal life and internalized sense of self worth, girl!. DN: But shouldn't we be asking more of ourselves and of the people in our lives? SS: Of course, but we all fail, Diane. The world is unforgiving enough as it is. The least we can do is find ways to forgive each other and ourselves.
I don't hate dislike Diane but that quote is simply wrong. Diane is not doing anything about being broken in the end, she is just taking drugs to escape from reality kinda like Bojack during the show. If anything Bojack is the one who make you feel bad for not doing anything about your situation because the guy went to rehab, work on himself and find happiness in teaching even when he was in jail.
@@51dodoc Diane actually gets shit done. She wrote a book, she created a successful blog and she creates work she is proud of. So she does not accept failure. She is no princess carolin but she is a good person.
@@evandugas7888 Oh yeah Diane definitely accomplished a lot and she is a great character but when it comes to overcoming depression I think Bojack did much more by actually working on himself and changing who he is while Diane got into antidepressants who are just a temporary solution.
@@51dodoc Hm well Bojack did not fix himself by the end. He ended up in prison. Bojack may try to fix himself but he fails. My head cannon is he got better after prison but Diane actually got a bit better .
@@51dodoc bruh,,,,antidepressants are not a crutch or temporary solution, they exist to fix problems with your brain. depression is a clinical disorder and for a lot of people with depression, their brains *literally cannot make the necessary chemicals to feel better*, so they get supplemented by antidepressants. Personally, I am nearsighted. You wouldn't call my glasses a "temporary solution." To compare depression, a mental illness, to a physical illness: you wouldn't tell a sick person to stop taking their medicine because it's "getting into drugs." They need that medicine to recover. Never try to make people feel bad about taking the steps they need to feel better.
I never understood why people hated Diane. And in a way it made me nervous, because - well, I am like her in so many ways. When you want to hold yourself and people accountable, and think we should all strive to be better it is often seen as being "on a high horse" and being condescending. In fact it often stems from two things - seeing all the ways that society is fucked up and how much people suffer because of it, and having such low self esteem that the only way you could possibly be worth something is if you strive and reach (or at least come close to) perfection. And you expect other people to feel the same way, when many are content just acknowledging their own shittyness and not doing anything about it (like Bojack for most of the series). It's a frustrating place to be in when you fight so damn hard, and people just hate you for it. I've fought all my life to be perfect and tried to make the world a better place, but eventually broke down and had years of Diane's "bumming out at Bojack's house". Just giving up, because nothing ever gets better, and sometimes you just can't anymore. That's not in contradiction with trying to be a good person, it's a natural reaction to constantly fighting and being depressed and feeling like you are never good enough. Somehow it seems like we're more comfortable with that mindset when it comes from someone that never tries, but when it comes from someone that tries to hold everyone to a high standard, it's "hypocritical". But striving to be better is about just that - striving. Not being perfect, because no one is.
This is the one. I felt almost shameful when I found out people hated Diane. I thought "Am i doing something wrong for being like her and admiring her character?" which is such a Diane thought, immediately wanting to better myself and worrying. I have countless memories of me calling people out in social settings and it never landing well and me being so frustrated. I wanted people to "wake up" but they didn't care for that. I still struggle to accept that there are people ok with being content. It literally ruined my last relationship. This was a beautiful take!
THANK. YOU. That's exactly the point. It's so hurtful to try and make the world better for everyone, but then see how people don't care about anything that's so important to you, and in return get waves of hate.
Thank you. This is exactly how i am feelabout this. Im in the bumming out at bojacks house phase and im really glad i found this video and this comment. to all the other "diane's" out there, keep fighting. Fight to better yourself not for others but because you want to be better. We don't need anyones approval besides our own.. no matter how much we want others approval. We will eventually be happy and on the other side of recovery but it takes time.. but eventually it will happen, eventually we will be off of bojacks couch and will be chillin with guy. Everything is gonna be ok.
I love this comment. I also think they took her character in such an interesting direction because she didn't end up being perfect at all! She didn't make a huge change in the world. She ended up writing fiction, marrying a simple, nice guy, and moving to Houston, and guess what?!! She was happy! She ultimately found satisfaction with just making a positive impact on those around her (Guy, his son) and accepting herself for who she was, without chasing this need to prove her worth through altruistic achievement. I relate to her a lot too, and I thought that was such an interesting character choice for her.
Perhaps everybody hates her because in some way we all have a Diane sort of voice inside telling us what should we most do, we hate that it's right and we just can't help to ignore it. Diane represents that conscious, brave part of the duality of depression while Bo jack plays the pity, comfortable and sinking part.
Diane is a very well-written character. I absolutely understood everything she did in the show... The beautiful thing about her story is that she helped Bojack get out of his own problems and only after seeing him change she finally decided to help herself up. They basically helped each other. Unlike as you might have thought from the first seasons, that she will be the one who will be providing help. And that's the hidden masterpiece of this show. Even the strongest characters have their own problems to deal with.
specifically her character development after the divorce was absolutely beautiful, I love the show but watching her grow has to be my favourite part of it.
I fell in love with someone who was very much like Diane, and sadly, I had a similar relationship with her as Bojack did. We were friends, and I was toxic. Our friendship ended and it really sucked. I am surprised to find out people didn't like her
same, i cried watching the scene of when bojack asks her at the ghost writing confrence if she thinks he can be a good person. all i could think about is when i did that same thing to my personal diane. id like to think im a better person now, that im not toxic and self destructive. but watching bojack and diane's relationship i couldnt stop thinking about how it almost perfectly mirriored my relationship with her.
I love Diane. I also always thought that she and Bojack were soulmates. Like, soulmates that could never actually be together romantically because they were like gasoline to a fire, but like, twin flames, or something. They understood each other better than anyone else understood them
I don't find Diane offensive. If anything, I find her the most relatable. Diane, near the end of the series, has a monologue about the experience of having once been close to Bojack, but now she has no part in his life. I had a close friend, but we stopped a few years ago. It's hard to accept that loss - Diane Nguyen made me able to accept that loss. ❤
thats certainly what they were going for. I've known a few valley girl manipulative types like diane and amber heard, I will NEVER tolerate another one as long as i live. Dianes are the fucking worst.
I relate to Diane so hard and watching her in Bojack helped me realize my own problems. I'm not surprised that people are so misogynistic towards her. People loooove Bojack and hate Diane :/
it's because bojack knows when he has done something wrong and feels bad about it, Diane does not even realize when she has done something wrong because she puts up a fasade of being a good person
@@nathan9523 Did you not watch the show she knows she does bad things but tries to run from the problem and act like it doens't exist it's a coping strategy watch the full video and think about the points made in it.
@@nathan9523 bojack doesn’t get a pass cuz he knows what he’s done is bad. Literally one of the main themes to his arc is realising that he’s not good just because he acknowledges he’s done bad things.
if i'm being honest, in my first watch of the show, diane's reaction to a lot of things used to agitate me. i never hated her, but from saying nothing at bojack's, "i need you to tell me that i'm good," and her dislike of mister peanutbutter's library gift, i just couldn't put my finger on why it made me so mad. looking back, i realize that a lot of my relation to bojack comes from that crutch of others for my own trauma. i am comfortable when people excuse some of my questionable actions from pity. but when diane didn't give him the satisfaction of being told he's a good person, it made me mad. i was uncomfortable that she couldn't be the support he, or how i saw it- i needed. but not only did bojack not deserve that satisfaction he's already gotten so many times, but he put her in an extremely abrupt spot. additionally, the problems with the gifts was not with the gift itself. it didn't matter how personalized it was- diane has made her dislike of outlandish presents clear from the get go. but mister peanutbutter's inability to listen really shines when he admits to her it was because she made him feel like diane was a guest, making HIM uncomfortable. she is such a smart, multi-layered character, and i will always remember that scene in season 5 with the 4th wall break. calling me and many others' out that bojack is not there to make you feel better about being a bad person. diane is working on herself and trying to be better, and is so much more than a plot-device to make bojack, MP, or any other character just feel good about themselves.
i think her not saying bojack that he is a good person is what makes her one of the best characters in the show. she knows who bojack is, and seems to be the only person to know him well, and saying he is good would not help him at all. bojack did nothing to show us that he is actually good. yes, he had a shitty family but having a shitty family doesn't give you any right to ruin other people's life and treat them like dirt. so diane was not playing around and she was being a real friend. but i guess a lot of people don't like it when you don't say the things they wanna hear.
I feel like Diane actually understand what it meant to "take responsibility for your own happiness" and to "not feel bad about it", and the reason why she doesn't like grand gestures would go back to the "Cryanne" video
to me, Diane was the most relatable. she's the only one who *doesn't* have a horrible, completely tragic backstory and astounding, almost unbelievable trauma. what she did have is a couple of shitty parents and some shitty brothers, who weren't out right abusive to her but said so many mean things to her and never gave her support. Diane was the most... normal person on the show. i like to think she has C-PTSD, so many tiny, insignificant traumas building up overtime that accumulate into her subconscious. that episode where she was trying to write about her life and was attempting to come up with "valid" examples of her horrible life, but couldn't, really set the tone for how sad she was. i personally felt related to her. i've never had a significant, life altering trauma happen to me; what i have gone through is things like bullying, insults from parents, and little incidents that left me emotionally unavailable at times. all of these seemingly *nothing* things still ended up making me severely depressed and i was suicidal for years.... without exact reason for it. what i am trying to get at is Diane is the common (wo)man- neutral ground. she's not a celebrity, she didn't grow up with abusive parents, and she's not actively putting herself into harms way, and yet she still gets depressed. she still hates herself. AND she's completely, 100% aware of it. i think Diane represents the majority. it can be hard to connect with characters like Bojack because the problems he faces are so extreme and illegal and so, so awful. Diane is the bridge between Bojack and ourselves, a reflection of many people who feel the same way she does without true cause
this is extremely late, but im just here to say that what her family did to her WAS abuse, and bullying IS abuse. its considered emotional, and psychological abuse. you can even say she was physically abused by her bullies, as she talks about being hurt by them in an episode. anyways, my point is, even if it wasn't 'severe' abuse, it still was that. you and others deserve the label as well, it can help with some of the pressures of not feeling 'damaged enough'. you're only human, of course that would be enough to hurt you for the rest of your life.
ik im late but this just explained everything so neatly. its like you took what i was thinking and couldnt put into words, into words. this is really well put is all im saying
I always thought Diane was so hated because she's openly a feminist and is what some people would describe as a (ugh...) """SJW""". I'm convinced at least some people feel that way.
Because she is a sjw stereotype. Especially at the scene in the background of 9:49 . Bojack offered to take responsibility for his actions, and she said it wasnt good enough. What IS good enough? What does she expect him to do about his mistakes? If nothing can be done, its fine for her to not have anything to do with him, but it was ridiculous to keep screaming at him over them.
Still despise her. She's basically a self righteous SJW through the entire show. Bojack starts out very self righteous too, and I despised him just as much, but we see how he suffers internally, how his selfish nature is shielding himself from completely hating himself. How he truly thinks he's a piece of shit who makes everything worse. We don't get that same level of anguish or humility with Diane, she feels very arrogant through and through with little justification for it.
That’s my take on it. She’s everything that’s wrong with feminism. Only looking at surface level arguments and not looking deeper into the things she wants to tear down like the invisible “patriarchy” Also shes a shit human being and shitty friend.
viera you’re telling me modern feminism isn’t superficial? All it is is arguing over things that are easily debunked and made up bullshit like micro aggression and hate speech. And yes, the patriarchy is a myth for salty cunts to bitch and whine over because they can’t figure out that they are the only reason their life is in tatters.
Who cares. In the sence who cares if people dislike her she is doing her. She knew what she wants and settled for less for a long time. She helps by being painfully honest to people because hopefully saying it out loud it will change her too.
I do understand the whole Dianne getting mad at the library, because when you are raised in a abusive family and at a place you can't wait to escape and you have no friends, you create a safe place in your head where you can imagine going, or you can imagine having it one day. You feel that it would make everything right. So many times in my life I have carried on instead of giving up, because I tell myself I will one day have a John Rylands library replica in my future house and it will make everything right. But if I walk into that replica one day out of surprise, and nothing changes, I would die.
Bearsh thebear yeah buddy I hate her character cuz she’s a girl lmao, stop trying to nit pick at everything and make it about something deeper than it is. By saying that I don’t like the character because she’s a female you’re basically saying that I’m only allowed to dislike male characters because otherwise it’s misogynistic. Like honestly just stfu
KillTheCupcakes well for starters the fact that she never really apologises for the shitty things she does and when she does shitty things they are always portrayed as though they’re out of spite rather than drug abuse exct. like bojak. Also the fact that she acts like she’s so much better than everyone else but deep down she’s just as messed up as the rest of them pisses me off because she judges the other characters on how shitty they are without acknowledging that she is shitty aswell.
Im surprised that Diane gets so much hate. She’s actually the only one in the show that gave me hope. Like yeah I get that the show normalizes being broken. It’s supposed to be comforting. But I was actually horrified at how similar I was to bojack, at the idea that if I’m like him maybe I’ll never change. That the voice telling you how awful you are never goes away, that no matter what you do, you’ll relapse etc But as broken as diane May be, she never stopped trying she never stopped believing in bojack as angry as she could be and that was amazing to me.
My friend was talking about how Diane is so annoying and she was always one of my favorite characters because she is the lens that the creator used most of is personal beliefs through. Thanks for putting into words what I could not about why Diana is not an annoying character, just a flawed one struggling to find their way just like the rest of the cast.
I had no idea Diane was such a hated character. Her constant effort to improve herself despite how hopeless she thinks it is sometimes was what I liked best about her character.
I really relate to Diane getting mad about the Belle Room. My mother use to throw birthday parties for me but she always designed them the way she wanted her birthdays to be. So if I ever said “I want an indoor birthday where we play board games” she would make it an outdoor birthday with a bonfire and loud music. I now hate celebrations of any kind because I realized people don’t do nice things unless it feels nice for them. My birthdays were always catered to my mother or my friends, my baby shower was catered to my friends and in-laws, etc. Diane doesn’t like big romantic gestures… But of course Mr. PB had to do this huge gesture because it felt nice for him but it wasn’t considering her and what she wants.
Yeah, I hate that shit too. Most of my birthdays it would be a friend or two of mine saying "We should go do this!" "We should travel to this place!" And then two minutes later, they'd say "Or whatever Tom (me) wants to do." Not that my birthday is for me to be the boss or be recognized, but I think "Dude, it's not YOUR birthday!" Before I turned 25, I invited a few friends to go to San Diego with me, I had the hotel picked. One friend said we should check rates at the naval base. Another suggested three other locations- St Petersburg Florida, Hermosillo Mexico, and Vegas. I clearly told him each time I wanted to do San Diego. When he suggested Vegas, I was like "Okay, that's it. No more from you." I'm still best friends with him, but he was basing his suggestions on what *he* wanted to do.
that's so real. whenever it's my birthday my mother would always pick a birthday cake that SHE likes, even though I always tell her I just want a simple chocolate cake or a strawberry cake. And when I told her I wanted to get a cat, I told her I love every cat and I don't care what breed it is, but she just had to pick one that SHE liked, and spent an insane amount of money to buy the cat. and just basically whenever she says she wants to get something for me, she actually means she wants to get something that she likes for me.
Finally someone who understands Diane. That's why her relationship with Guy is so meaningful. He supports her and loves her for who she is, and pushes her to be her best self when she needs it. He is a really good Guy.
I've never interacted with the fandom until very recently so I was really surprised with the hate Diane got when the traits she's acused off are present in so many other beloved characters (don't get me wrong, I love them too). She's one of my favourite characters and this video really explained why
People are quock to forget how traumatic Cordovia was for diane, how she wakes up shouting "Kinko" for the child that she was trying to help and died in a bombing, when she got back she had PTSD and war related trauma, she couldn't confront that well and that is what people criticize, because they don't understand this character. Is ironic that the worst person in the show, bojack himself, is one of the least criticized. Many of his faults are from his upbringing, but the worse parts can't be pinned on his parents.
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
If you like this video, you might also like this one I made exploring when exploitation is ok in film and television told through the lens of true crime and the Netflix Jeffery Dahmer show:
ua-cam.com/video/RmiEtfeGc9o/v-deo.html
Or this one looking at the messy behind-the-scenes of Steven Spielberg's forgotten Jurassic Park spin-off, We're Back: A Dinosaur Story:
ua-cam.com/video/RKOhw8NZpXg/v-deo.html
Or here is the In Defence of playlist if that's what you're into:
ua-cam.com/play/PLqStSJhv1GeS_4n1Fw7I-mbgo1s_QDtFF.html
“while bojack and everyone else makes the audience comfortable being broken, diane makes the audience uncomfortable that they’re not doing anything about it.” harsh truth
they spilled
That quote is excellent.
I love the writing in this show, we expected bojack to fuck things up and be a shitty person you know what you're getting into. we held Diane to a standard she held herself too wich you can tell was effective and intentional. They see her as A massive hypocrite. She's the hero of the tale trying to do what's right for everyone but one thing that I liked about this storytelling is almost always about the hero's own conflict is, If Diane is everyone's hero and pillar of support who's saving her when she crumbles?
I relate to this so much in my personal life, wow. I'd rather talk about my problems than actually do something. gotta lot of work to do...
Honestly don't understand people who feel comfortable with relating to him anyway. I sure don't
Diane has repeatedly said that she doesn't like grand romantic gestures. It should have surprised no one that she didn't like the belle room.
EXACTLY! And it was a precious thing to her, she doesn’t want to have to share it !
It was a moment that really hit me. Diane was vulnerable for a moment and shared something special with him, something that was her secret, and she handed it to Mr. PB, trusting him to keep it safe for her, and he made a massive deal about it, and shared it with the people he hired to put it together for him. Especially considering Diane’s history of surprises (just look at her brothers surprising her with their homeless man pretending to be her pen pal, or the ‘funeral’ plans they made for their father etc) I was entirely unsurprised when Diane lost it in that moment, bc it made perfect sense if you followed her character’s setup.
What Mr. PB did was basically the equivalent of completely taking apart and reconstructing a cherished childhood keepsake after being given it to look at/hold. Diane wanted him to share the item with him, not have him completely take over and revamp it into a version that makes sense to him. And I can’t believe people call her out for it like it was unreasonable.
Her outbursts of anger and discomfort around situations that trigger her (being left alone at parties, being surprised with big elaborate things/events, not being consulted before life changing decisions within her relationships etc) can all be traced back very easily to her childhood trauma, and acting as if it’s unreasonable for her to not want to participate in those things because “they’re just (parties/surprises/etc) chill out” is so dismissive, bc you wouldn’t tell someone with war PTSD to just “get over” being triggered by fireworks sounding like gunfire, or someone with survivors guilt who lost someone in a car accident refusing to be driven anywhere bc they need to be behind the wheel to feel safe, etc. you’d understand, and if you didn’t understand, you’d still respect their boundaries and you wouldn’t call them irrational or overly sensitive etc.
Diane exhibits very obvious fight/flight/freeze tendencies throughout the show depending on how well she can handle/cope with each situation. She often chooses fight (in this case, arguments = fight) with things like surprises/parties with Mr. PB or Bojack, she chose flight when dealing with stuff like Cordovia and her own insecurities and failures, and occasionally we can see freeze/meltdowns, like at the prom when she just sobbed, or failing to write her book etc. in fact, the way that she changes stress response based on the differences in the situations makes her MORE realistic, not badly written or inconsistent. People don’t react to the same trigger the exact same way every single time, bc often the trigger happens in a variety of situations, all of which have their own obstacles to deal with, so the subconscious picks the first one that has the easiest path at the time and guns it.
I understand that but Mr. PB wanted her to feel like the house was her’s too. The entire time they were buying the house she just seemed disconnected. It felt that way the whole time they were together. I’m not saying PB was right but it felt like he tried because he was scared she was gonna leave. That whole marriage felt a little one sided because she constantly seemed like she wanted to be unhappy( I know that’s not the case). But I like Diane she alright, but she just constantly forces this unhappiness instead trying to figure it out
@@jazzy7559 she was depressed.
@@siniayab.6816 at the time I wrote this I was only on the beginning of season three so I understood Diane was depressed and my opinion changed a little
“All of the characters have problems”
Judah: "I belive this is not accurate."
thats true, the only thing i can think of is when he did something without princess carolyns permission.
I mean he is a workaholic, so there's that 😅
@@KateNord I thinks he’s on the spectrum
@@shanynacloutier8681 That's actually a very cool interpretation! 😊
@@KateNord he does and enjoys things outside of work. He bikes and has a band. He just cares about being professional. Plus if you like someone you want to be around them.
I never saw Diane's unappreciated advice as "high and mighty", because to be honest she was usually spitting straight facts
wrong
Exactly
@@prehistoriccreature1800me when I don’t understand the show and watch too much Andrew tate
@@prehistoriccreature1800let me guess...because woman? Right?
It also doesn't make sense to hate her for it when she struggles just as hard to meet her own standards as everyone else does. Like yeah, she's hypocritical, but so's everyone except for Sarah Lynn.
I think a lot of the hatred also comes from the fact that in most shows, Diane would be the "mother/angel" figure who would only be there to try and help Bojack be a better person. In that role, she can't have flaws. What's brilliant about this show is that the writers refused to take that route, and instead made Diane a fully human character with her own shitty behaviors. But the audience isn't used to that, and I think most of this Diane hatred comes from their confusion.
Agreed!
Thank you, we constantly see a character telling everyone else that they are shitty, meanwhile no one mentioned once to her that she was shitty she was too, people just dont like hypocrites, it has nothing to do with gender
@@deepdaddy1208 it has everything to do with gender. Bojack does the exact same thing, he calls people out all the time, and yet he's a horrible person himself. Diane is aware of how shitty she is, there's an entire episode about it when she's writing her novel. Bojack even outright says that he and her are the same person. The only difference is that he's a man, and he's seen as sympathetic, while she's a woman, and seen as whiny or selfish.
They pretty much want her to be the manic pixie dream girl but the writers fucking rule so they gave her actual character.
@@hopoffmydick9574 People don't like Dianne because she's a preachy hypocrite who thinks she's better than the people around her. People don't like being preached to. It has nothing to do with gender, if Dianne was male I wouldn't like her anymore. Dianne gets better but it takes a very long time.
That and she is the writer's mouthpiece.
I loved Diane, she’s one of the few female characters I’ve been able to connect to. Her character was written as a person and not a two dimensional mother figure we’re used to seeing in her place. A lot of people in the comments have brought up how people have projected their own issues on to Diane and I agree; Diane was not written to fix Bojack and she refuses to do so as the show progress, this clearly has pissed audience members off because they see it as her neglecting Bojack rather than seeing that it’s not her job to fix him.
She's one of the few characters in television I relate to
this is so true. diane actually has depth and more to her then just mental illness or looks which i really appreciate. and this is so true, even at the end i was like why can’t they just be friends why is she being like that but then i had to realize how much bojack out her through and see she was just trying to be okay and be happy
I love Diane! I see myself on her
I thought about a similar topic while rewatching BJH and realized that a lot of people who hate diane are because they relate their bad decisions and desires to Bojack's in the show. Which brings us back to why people hate her, they are mad that she didn't save bojack because they want someone like diane to save them and it hurts to see the true reality that no one is made simply for the fact of saving or fixing a person. People on this planet are not objects to own or play with, which was a huge plot in Bojack. Everyone has their own life that does not revolve around bojack or the viewer. So the people who hate diane need to look further into their life and figure out why? Perhaps they have a diane in their life?
i think it has a lot to do with the way people villainize female characters that aren't 2d sex objects or mother figures. especially if they share similar flaws as a beloved male character
I didn’t even know people hated her. I thought she was a solid character
Right? I feel the same way. She was a bit dooshy but so was pretty much everyone.
Me too, not really noticed it tbh.
I feel like if you hate Diane you kinda missed the point of the show (or at least one of the points)
@@marcuspolzer5335 At the beginning of the show I thought I hated Diane, and then I realised that her character was the one i resonate the most with, and the explanation to why I had so much of her attitude after Cordovia was because I didn't want to admit to myself that I would’ve done the same exact thing in her situation.
@@giorgia2533 I was scared that she would end up being a MPDG who only served to support Bojack so I was pleasantly surprised with the direction her character development went. There were times where I didn’t understand her outbursts and toxic behavior. But looking back I was going through those same things and just didn’t realize I was doing it too. Ex- the Belle library scene. I’ve had people in my family who try to do me “favors” that I never asked for, and sometimes those favors just inadvertently make my life harder. But then I feel selfish for trying to set boundaries and I guess I projected it onto Diane at first.
in a lot of ways I feel like diane was written to be the female counterpart of bojack with a lot of issues stemming from her childhood like bojack. except since she’s an asian woman she’s not allowed to act up like bojack when she’s confronted with her issues bc it would destroy her life. we can see this when she’s ridiculed for acting out even in small ways. so instead she’s forced to deal with and work through her issues all on her own. while she wants to be a good person it takes her time to work through her issues to do so and allow herself to be happy
so well said
female counterpart, yeah she does the same shit but doesn't have any of the consequences to deal with. fuck diane!
@I Love God Amen that is true and people will be less harsher with her
She’s my favorite character. I watched the whole show across weeks without looking at commentary or anything, so I figured everyone also liked her. I was so wrong 💀
@@user-sf9gs2pg1b i watched show without seeing or reading any commentary on the show and i used to think I would be the only one who hates her.
wait, people hate diane? She’s the most relatable character in the show. Half the time she’s a vessel for the audience when she’s dealing with bojack
Yeah I agree! wtf, I never knew people hated Diane...
@@sockvine35 fr
@@sockvine35 same
IKR, I watched the show recently with my boyfriend and when he told me that Diane was hated I was very surprised! I mean, I get why people don't like her, but she is very essential in the show and also is the one who says the most accurate things (how depression feels, why she is feminist, etc)
@@doctordragon9798 I'm a self hating person who relates to Diane, and I love her. I think the real reason is just good old-fashioned misogyny.
What her brothers did to her was one of the cruelest things I have ever heard of.
@@afaauu5573 Nobody said it does
shit sorry what did they do? i cant recall
@@afaauu5573 none of the defense videos ever excuse anything. no one ever says anything shitty is okay because doing something shitty is never ever ever gonna be okay. understanding why it occurred though is always important if you’re ever going to understand someone as everyone does something shitty.
@@meli1872 they made fake love letters and when she thought she made a friend they invited a homeless man over and took a video of her humiliation and then replayed the video to laugh at it
@@elianaharden9029 oh shit right i forgot about that. thanksss
Diane asking herself why can’t she be happy under the earthquake is like one of my favorite moments because I could relate to how she was feeling
@Alex Macmillan overthinking what?
@Alex Macmillan So the answer to depression is just to not overthink things. Okay that totally works.
@@GhoulishBunnyStudios Alex is an asshole
@Alex Macmillan Well, you didn't specify what you meant. But you can always clarify.
Am I busted???
In regards to her Post-Cordovia period staying at Bojack’s, I saw her breakdown as a form of PTSD. She literally watched people die in front of her. She was in a war zone. Even when Wanda wakes her up on the patio, her first words are her screaming “Kinko!” As if she was having a nightmare about his death. Don’t forget she grew really attached to him. She was more than likely mourning those people and processing trauma she experienced. That made her extremely human to me. She couldn’t handle being in a war zone and then felt immense guilt for leaving all those people to die.
i really feel like they shouldve touched on that more!! i think it defo impacted her in more ways than we were shown on screen
@@batabidsdefinetely, it felt a little brushed off. They treated her more like: oh this lazy bum won't go home, what a mess. And made it about her issues. They should have delve more into the actual trauma she went through.
This is so valid! I never really thought of it that way
That too. I was actually kinda frustrated at Duane for not telling Mr Peanut Butter about wanting to come home, it would've definitely been hard but it's better than to lie for months about her being there. But the trauma thing totally makes sense, it would be difficult for her to come to terms with everything. I feel like even if she did lie, she could've discussed her trauma with Mr Peanut Butter, and it wouldn't have been a hindrance to their relationship and communication.
I never knew people didn't like Diane until now.
I always assumed she was a well-received character.
ye with such high quality writing and an important role in the show dynamic, hard to understand loving the show and not her as well...
Dr. Mechano that’s what happens when you write realistic characters: there’s always going to be people that don’t like them because not everyone sees things the way they do
Me too!
Same here
Same, I always liked her!
I was really surprised when I heard a lot people didn't like her. I thought she would be quite popular. Cause I felt she was a unique character. Coming from an abusive family she's the only character that understood bojack in a way that nobody did. And it scared her. Because she's aware that bojack is not a good guy. And she saw herself in him. The whole journey from seeing her as the "stable, good head on shoulders" character to realizing she's just as broken as bojack was quite amazing imo
She is popular I think it's just she is more disliked then the others. For me she is my favorite.
Exactaly!!
I fell in love with her when she went to Vietnam
Same I don’t get why people wouldn’t like her. Shes the best character on the show imo.
Not really abusive, neglectful definitely
Diane and Princess Carolyn are my absolute favorite characters, because of their self-awareness of how broken they are, but still trying to be better and help others be better as well.
I believe the most admirable thing about a person is truly their willingness to change and become better.
I completely disagree with Diane
@@sharkboydakid6340 yes
@@bunersitoos she’s a hypocrite who knows it and uses that to justify her actions. Which is one the things she calls out bojack for. She is just a shitty person as bj except bj genuinely does try to be better. He goes to rehab. He makes amends where possible. And he makes it up to those people. He did a lot of shitty things but also every time he tried to be better something happened to him
@@sharkboydakid6340 I also disagree w her. Both bojack and Diane are shït, with the difference that bojack wants and tries to change. The only character that i totally love is Todd. Todd is the best 😏 also sorry if i misspelled something, english isnt my first language so XDD
Sometimes, a hypocrite is nothing more than a person in the process of changing
To be old and wise, you have to be young and stupid.
- Dalinar Kholin, “The Stormlight Archive” (Brandon Sanderson)
No they are not, a hypocrite is simply a hypocrite and nobody likes a person who is inconsistent all the time especially with their beliefs. It's the reason religion gets a bad rap because it is literally a safe haven for hypocrites.
@@dewolf123Well said
@@dewolf123you sound slow little buddy
The Belle Room was superficial. It didn’t even have REAL books and the furniture had sharpie smiles on it. It was meaningless. Did Mr Peanutbutter even know what books Diane liked? Diane told him countless times she didn’t like big gestures. She told him she didn’t like parties and he threw her a crazy one on her birthday. He never listened to her. They did love each other, but divorce was inevitable since the proposal.
Diane’s flaw is that she worries too much. She wanted to help others so her life had purpose. Naturally, she felt more hopeless when she realized she wasn’t strong enough to help a troubling world. Diane is such a human character. Not many people understand her because they don’t understand depression. At least in the way it manifests in Diane.
Right? I thought the scene was brilliant because it so perfectly underscored everything that was wrong in their relationship. All I could do while watching the scene was feel bad for both of them.
Mr. Because he had, in theory, done everything right. He'd listened, closely, tried to do something thoughtful that was for her, and about her. And yet...
She found it viscerally repulsive and even a bit violating. And I could see that she felt bad for feeling that way, and bad for making Mr. feel bad and bad for things always going that way for them.
It was just a painful scene all 'round.
Woah, that last paragraph made me realize I have that in myself
Loida Perez I too worry too much, but I don’t feel so upset that I can’t help people, I just feel depressed almost when I can’t understand why I worry
I agree so much!!!!
Yeah in that moment while I understood her visceral repulsion for that gift, I felt she was definitely being insensitive and brutal to him. She could have appreciated the extent to which he'd go with the sole intention of making her happy, which is something with value in itself, even if it was done in a misguided way.
i feel like she had the most satisfying ending of any of the cast
I might agree with that. Thank you for sharing.
Imo she has one of the worst (except BoJack)
The moment where she realizes that her inability to write her memoir means her damage wasn't good hit me really hard. I started the episode seeing the title and thinking, "You can't have good damage! What is this?" And then when they subvert the trope I suddenly realized that I absolutely didn't believe my own claim and it was like they were directly refuting me. As a writer myself, I definitely want to think any hardships I've faced will ultimately make me a better creator, and that episode was essentially just calling out the toxicity of this exact line of thought.
Dr. Whose how?
@@DrWhose she found genuine love and satisfaction in her life, how is her ending the worst? (Also, Bojack's is great imo)
I didnt even think Diane was unpopular?
Edit: reading through these comments reminded me people miss the point of this series and idolize Bojack for some weird reason
people idolizing bojack is really close to that scene after bojack's interview where he admitted to what he did in the sarah lynn incident. he became loved and sympathized
Sad people don’t tend to be good people. As someone who was once very sick with mental illness, I believe people idolise bojack because it makes them feel okay about letting their sadness come out in nasty ways
I see people idolising Bojack as a way for them to feel good about their flaws, no matter how shitty and rude those flaws are
@@nanarobinson_ Yess beautifully put and a large majority dislike Diane cause she ALWAYS tries to be better than the next episode (although not always perfect and sometimes too depressed to do anything) She makes people feel uncomfortable cause she challenges changing for a healthier way of life
I never really knew anybody idolizes bojack...i mean why would they..but i always felt like people around me included felt sympathy for his character..
I relate to diane more than anyone else in these series, feeling like I have to be stable and help "fix" others who are broken, while finding out I'm horribly depressed and not meant to.
Why do people hate her so much? Was she not allowed to be human and to want to better herself too?
Right? It so weird that Bojack, a horse, is given more grace. She should be allowed to mess up. We all mess up. No one is saying that those mess ups are okay but not valid to the point of literal hate.
It's really simple to see why people hate her. I'm sure you *do* understand, but you just disagree. Simply put, BoJack is the titular character and the protagonist of the series. Whether he's a 'good' or a 'bad' person doesn't really matter (and in fact a big theme of the series is figuring out these words are not really useful, since all characters are a mix), what matters is that he's the one driving the plot forwards. Inevitably, a lot of people are going to identify with this character purely because we are experiencing most of the events through him.
Since Diane (and to an extent, many other characters) acts as an antagonist to BoJack, this will already make her more disliked simply by virtue of 'blocking' BoJack's actions. The rest of the dislike will come from a variety of sources: either people genuinely sympathise with BoJack or they have a genuine problem with people whose flaws are similar to Diane's (she's sanctimonious, meddlesome, yet at the same time craven and self-serving). There are good reasons to dislike Diane, even if you like her character.
Everything Diane does is at the expense of someone else, that is why I dislike her.
@@brzt4256 this is exactly what i was thinking
@@trigremlin are they tho? and is Bojack not the exact same way?
Ive always loved diane. She has her flaws but shes the character i relate the most to.
Flawed = Interesting
Same
Gina Gaudioso Damn, Im so sorry for you
Is there any metric to suggest Diane is the most hated? I've not spent that much time online, but I was certain that Mr. Peanutbutter was by far the least liked of the main characters, while Todd (too much of a comic relief) and PC (too much of an adult for the target audience to relate to) were pretty much just decent sidekicks. I always thought of Diane as the 2nd most important (and by far most likeable) character and I would find it really disturbing if there was really nobody appreciating her.
@@DerdiedasBlue honestly I think the issue is this person was looking on reddit forums, and I think the average user of bojack horseman reddit forums may be less likely to appreciate diane than the average bojack horseman viewer
I remember not liking her until I realized that it was because I see myself in her
Interesting. Of all the characters I see myself in Diane the most.
that's always been a theory of mine. every time i have a sort of hate-fixation thing going for someone, I stop and wonder if that's because i see myself in them. so far it's proved pretty accurate
i felt the exact same thing. then for some reason after the final season came out she became my favorite character, which sort of made me feel like maybe there was some hope for me.
Diane made me realise a few things about my self, which was the main reason I hated her for so long. It wasn’t until the most recent episodes she became my most favoured character.
Ted Sava exactly!!! me being a girl who was put on antidepressants and gained weight as a result, chubby diane made me feel so much better about myself. her own "stupid piece of shit"-styled episode in the new batch of episodes was the first time i genuinely cried at a TV show
As the child of immigrants I loved her episode where she returned to her country. It explored a lot of the feelings I have... not fitting in while I’m in America but also not fitting in there... kind of having this middle ground culture where you don’t really belong anywhere
exactly
As someone who never learned about my Mexican culture I related to that hard as well. I’m half Thai half Mexican but look more Mexican. So culturally I fit in with Asian kids but I stick out like a sore thumb in terms of appearance. And when I’m around Mexican kids I look the part but know nothing of the culture
I've got macedonian roots but I'm born and raised in Australia. I don't feel like I fit in either place
I feel the exact same. Not americanized enough to fit in, but not 'ethnic' enough to fit in with the other side. It's weird sometimes.
i’m japanese and born in america. i know a lot abt my ethnic culture including most of japanese which i’m very grateful for but i know that i will never fit in in japan because i wasn’t born there, i didn’t go to school there, etc. and u have done those things in america. i wish i was born in japan because it would’ve been easier that way and i prefer japan more because i grew up around my japanese family who immigrated here
i had no idea people hated diane so much, so incredibly ironic considering the amounts of topics that discuss misogyny within the show
Tf does that have to with misogyny?
Remember it is impossible to dislike a woman without being misogynistic. Ghilsane maxwell? Isla Koch? Hate these people? You’re a misogynist
@@GigaChadh976 that is not what they are saying, dont twist what they said to conform to the inner anger you clearly feel towards the issue.
@@rattttooooo but it’s disingenuous to presume misogyny as if that’s the only reason people will hate her. Sure I get what op was going for and there are misogynistic aspects to this Diane hate. But please let’s not use this as a “get out of jail accountability card” which is what assuming it’s all misogynistic does.
@@justjoshua5759 its not all misogynistic, and there is a whole video explaining that too, they havent even mentioned misogyny in it. But people are completely disregarding the side of this issue that is definitely misogynistic, whether people realize this or not. They just see the word and deem the opinion invalid. Its annoying.
The fans: Diane is awful!!
Bojack: almost slept with a literal teenager
Bojack: nearly strangled a woman to death
BoJack: Waited 17 minutes.
Bojack: Had sex with a girl that looked up to him as a father figure.
Bojack: Sabotaged his best friend’s rock opera
@@MsSarahJosephine i’m never going to get over that.
“while bojack and everyone else makes the audience comfortable with being broken, diane makes the audience uncomfortable that they’re not doing anything about it.”
i think this is the exact reason so many people hate her and love bojack! it’s the same problem we see in season 5 with philbert. it’s a running joke how alike bojack and philbert both are, with the set being exactly like his house, both characters dating sassy/gina, bojack constantly wearing the philbert outfit, etc. it gets to the point where he says that philbert makes him feel better about himself because he’s vulnerable, and it makes diane very upset because that’s never been the point. i always believed this was the production team breaking the 4th wall while adding to the joke of how similar they are. because he’s the main character we give him leeway, feel bad for him, and feel better about ourselves, and because she’s not we aren’t as forgiving. but you were never supposed to forgive him. you’re not supposed to watch bojack horseman and feel okay that you are the way that you are, same with philbert. you have to atleast attempt to change, like diane does. but that takes effort and makes us feel guilty, so instead we hate her because she is doing the one thing we won’t. she’s atleast trying, rather than “fetishizing her own sadness” like the rest of us.
How is she trying to change? The only positive change I can recall her making was taking anti depressants and deciding to write fiction instead of issues she cares about. Meanwhile we watch Bojack attempt to change over and over and just continue to fail. He tried rebuilding his childhood home (or something, cant remember) he went to rehab and got counseling. Diane thinks she is a good person who makes mistakes, Bojack thinks he is a bad person but desperately wants to change.
@@michaelvigil3436 First bojack doesn't appear to overcome his problems. Throughout the seasons we see him apologize for.. everything. Still he doesn't learn to overcome. Plus Diane is the one who actually made bojack attend rehab.
@I SadFace When did I say she was worse then Bojack? What does that even have to do with what I said? I think you just dont want to judge Diane as an individual so you only judge her based on Bojacks actions. As long as Bojack is worse than she is than any criticism of her must come from someone who is trying to convince themselves that she is worse than Bojack. Grow up.
@@meeraanil6083 First, if you are going to say "first" you should actually have a "second" thing to say. Second, the last episode makes it seem like he DOES overcome his problems but beyond that I dont see what "overcoming his problems" has to do with anything I said. My point is they Bojack is clearly trying to be a better person because he thinks of himself as a bad person who needs validation. Diane thinks she is a good person and its the world that's messed up and needs to change.
@I SadFace Giving out that vibe to only you apparently. You are giving out a sexist vibe that you only judge women based on the actions of the men around them. Someone talks bad about Diane and you automatically get a vibe that this person is saying she is a worse person then Bojack instead of just judging the character as an individual. Like its one thing to accept her as a flawed character but you seem to not even value her as an individual within the story, as far as you are concerned the show is about Bojack and every other character should only be viewed in contrast to the Bojack character.
Wow, i didn't know that everybody hates her, shes one of my favorite characters :/
Not everyone hates her, just enough people that this video needed to be made. Thanks for your comment.
Yea a lot of people love to hate on all female characters even though bojack tried to rape a teenage girl, gave a teenage girl alcohol poisoning, and tried to kill Gina by strangling her. But let's hate on Diane for having normal problems. Bojack sucks.
@@FatuschGaming I think he/she meant statutory rape.
shows like bojack and breaking bad out people as hating women. she's whiny, pretentious, and a hypocrite? dang, just like their favorite character
Mine as well. I have a friend who's not a fan, bet he's an idiot.
I, unfortunately, cannot ignore the rather simpler reason for the rejection of Diane and not Bojack- misogyny. She's the "crazy woman" and he is "misunderstood." She is supposed to better because women simply aren't allowed to be seen before they are "better". Even their imperfections must be positively charged like Princess Carolyn- constantly staying committed to fixing the Bojacks of the world, "killing it at work" by exhausting yourself and having an equally strong contrasting motherly instinct but the self sufficiency to do it alone.
@magnum men suffer from patriarchy too
@magnum also quit it with the whataboutism
@magnum but i believe that man are cut more slack and if they do both and are exhausted they are”super dads” for a woman that’s her job she’s a mother it’s expected of her ,not saying its gender wars out there but it’s more comfort coated for a man
Hahaha
Elitism and modern feminist ideals created this false patriarchy. You wouldn't have a pedestal to spit down on men if it wasn't for men to put you up on it. Or you could recognize objective reality and see some people are jerks, life isn't fair, and overall assholes succeed far more than nice people. Hope you grow past 101 feminist dance theory
I really liked Diane because I can relate to her being so hard on herself when she fails at becoming good.
Same
"While bojack and everyone else makes the audience comfortable with being broken, Diane makes them uncomfortable that they're not doing anything about it."
This is why Diane is my favorite character.
Well for me at least it’s not that deep I just find her annoying.
@@anthonyaxume599 Yah! You're not that deep!
mine too
exactly
I did not realize that was true until I read your comment. Well, now I feel shitty.
"She's supposed to know better, and yet she's deeply flawed and makes mistakes all the time 😤".
Wow it's almost like the show is trying to say something.
I feel like people are used to having a character that is perfect to come help and Diane was meant to be that character but then she wasn't.
@@strange0130 like bojack expected her to be her saviour, since he met her, he set the expectations in his mind, and in some way we did too. So when Diane isn't that...
Yeah, when Diane is first introduced, on a surface level you'd think that she'll be a "voice of the reason" character but around the season 2 it's kinda apparent that she's not
@@strange0130 nail on the head
@@MrMik981 she is and she isn't a voice of reason the whole show is about characters and their flaws and how they try to do less shitty things and more good things like bojack horseman Pc etc because it's relatable that nobody is perfect and she tried to save other people before saving herself
I think everybody else in the show is so grotesquely broken that it makes the audience think: oh, at least i'm better than THAT one. Diane, on the other hand, is more realistic that it makes people see themselves in her too vividly.
Also, it's easy to hate a solid, "cool" intellectual types, because people think they don't have issues, so when they say they have, others don't believe it and perceive it as 'whining'.
Everyone gets mad at her for rejecting gifts from peanut butter when she repeatedly tells him she doesn't like big gestures, she tried to communicate and he doesn't listen, it always made me mad that people blamed her for that
What's worse, is Mr. PB actually said he got the message loud and clear in the pool jello birthday party episode. He clearly didn't.
i know :( he should have known her better. And Mr Peanut butter repeatedly gaslights and guilts her when she’s disappointed by what he does, even though his grand gestures are selfish. She had the right to be mad about the Belle room.
Yeah. I had the same reaction. I know such situations from home where you are supposed to be grateful for big gifts you never wanted that were mostly just given to avoid an actual apology or real emotional attention i.e. actually listening. It took me years not to fall for the guilt-tripping anymore and even then it's still frustrating to communicate over and over again that I will not accept the gesture, although I get the good intentions because it still either hurts me or doesn't fix the previous hurt without an actual apology.
@@sombria13 I had to comment this lyric because I agree and you reminded me of it. "You think the money that you make can substitute the time you take." The first line of the bridge from J-Lo's "Love Don't Cost a Thing."
I feel like you also have to talk about the misogyny in the room. Not a single person calls bojack "whiny" or "bitchy" even though he does the exact same things and worse. He constantly whines about his life but ive never seen anyone call him whiny.
THIS. The thing I thought throughout the video was that people hate Diane because she is a woman, the two examples of why people hate her, when she crashed at bojacks house for a month or when she rejected the belle room, was both examples of a woman not trying to be someone else to please a man. she wasn't there to fix bojacks issues, but to run from her own for a while and just let herself be shitty and depressed and broken and her rejecting mr peanutbutters gift was getting of a codependent relationship with a man who didnt truly listen to her and expected her to be someone she wasnt. as a woman struggling with depression and with experiences like hers both familywise and relationdhip wise I saw a lot of myself in Diane. It was nice to have a female be unperfect. The month she crashed at bojacks house and was completely broken, unaible to care for others issues because her own felt too big, that felt empowering to me, I've been there many times. When bojack is too depressed and stuck in substance abuse to really help others(which he is throughout most of the show) that is ok, but diane has one big such and people call her selfish. It really shows how women are really expected to be there emotionally for men even when they are stuck in the same shit themselves. If we compare Diane to the other major female character, Princess Carolyn, she doesn't seem to get the same level of hate. They are both strong women dedicated to what they do, pc as an agent and Diane as a writer. They are both putting high expectations on themselves and have high expectations put on them by others. They are both lonely and sad but in different ways. The major differences between them is that PC doesn't her vulnerability as openly (she suppresses her emotions by overworking - again a very relatable female depression thing). While Diane have breakdowns, PC tries to be the perfect accomplished career woman.
While I love them both and can relate to both in different ways, I think the misogyny of the audience is clearly showing in their treatment of Diane vs PC (or Diane vs the male characters).
@@ADevilFromHeaven literally no one hates Diane just look through the comments I haven’t seen a single person hate on Diane bc she’s a good character
@@masoncook4974 alot of ppl hate her ive seen it all over reddit and twt. the readon most of these comments are defending her is because nobody that clicked on this vid hated her in the first place. this video is literally defending diane so why would someone who hates her watch a video in defense of her
Wait, only a few people hates bojack. Tf is wrong with people
Oh my god we are all Bojacks. Horseman, obviously.
Bojack: betrays two best friends, assaults woman, pretty much makes girl die
Mr. Peanutbutter: fracks under the house, almost killing wife and tens of people
Diane: dislikes gift
People on the internet: we gonna hate her
It's been stated a few times in this video that BlowCock HorseDick gets more sympathy than Dianne because he regrets making bad choices while Dianne really doesn't.
I feel like... I mean, Imma sound like a nazifeminist, but I feel like that has something to do with the perception of women we have.
Shyeline you are not a feminazi you are just stating facts
NeoSaigon What? How is that Diane’s fault Bojack was to stubborn to get a stunt double. With this back handed logic mr peanutbutter is to blame for Bojack addiction because he is the reason Bojack didn’t get a stunt double. Bojack already was struggling with addiction and as a wise Todd once said no one is to blame for Bojack shitty actions but himself.
NeoSaigon Wow, you seriously blamed BoJacks back and pain killers problem on Dianne, when it was literally BoJacks own fault.
i also hate how people think she’s a bad person for not being there for BoJack in the end, when he needed her the most. for once, he reminded her of herself as she was trying to get better and start her new life in Chicago and on top of that, she just didn’t want to support a literal abuser
Me also so much
ALSO SHE WAS PROBABLY ASLEEP!!!! IT WAS PROBABLY LIKE 2 IN THE MORNING -- WHY IS IT SO UNBELIEVABLE THAT SHE MIGHT HAVE HONESTLY JUST MISSED IT???
I geniuenely think people are just acting stupid and like the point flew over their heads just to hate on her. Maybe not everyone but there must be.
Please excuse my english.
She realized that he was never her responsibility. As she should. I’ve been Bojack and Diane and I’m very proud of her for how she handled that situation. Bojack is the personification of untreated mental illness and someone who doesn’t want to get better. Someone who’s afraid of not being miserable. Diane is the personification of someone trying to cope with and heal mental illness. She’s not perfect and she falls off sometimes but she always picks herself up when she does. She understands that recovery is not linear. Bojack has been content at rock bottom for a long time. It’s familiar to him.
@@StoutShakoFr and I’m p sure she’s the reason he was still alive. She woke up a few hours after and called 911. That’s the only reason he was able to be brought back. He drowned and died. She didn’t speak to him till the wedding because he purposefully traumatized her when he knew she was just starting to get her life on track.
I think people hate her because they project unto her the role of the female character who enables the main male character's character growth. They latch on to the moments where it feels like Diane wants to play that role, and they moan about the moments that go against it. Being someone else's step to character growth isn't a real thing, you're still a person with your own stuff going on and you can't subsume that just to be a rock for other people. Also, if being a hypocrite makes a character unlikeable, literally every BJH character is unlikable.
This is why I like Diane's ending. She has to say goodbye to Bojack because she realizes she deserves to be happy and doesn't have to feel bad all the time. It's a relationship that gave her purpose and I feel like sometimes she struggled to see beyond just what was happening in Bojack's life. In some ways he was her crutch for when things didn't work out for her. She always had him to loathe with and go back to when things weren't going her way. And when Bojack sent her that voicemail saying it would be her fault if he died, she easily could've ruined her life again and gone back to Hollywoo, but instead did the opposite. That's growth.
@@Ray03595 Yeah, I agree. I also think that she sees that Bojack is a heavy person to have around. You can see in the episode where they talk about what to say to the reporters that she reaches a tipping point when Bojack basically admits that he killed Sarah Lynn by giving her heroin, or at least making it available, but then denies it on the phone. I think in that moment she accepts the truth that she can be thankful for having known him, but that she's not going to stand by him for another of his self-serving toxic episodes. Diane got over her belief that having baggage makes a person more interesting and insightful, and she sees in Bojack that it sometimes just limits someone's ability for change. When I first saw the last episode, I thought that eventually, Diane and Bojack would talk again, but as I think more about it, I' changing my mind on that.
THANK YOU! You said it best! None of the characters are step characters for the “main” characters! We get an insight into all of their lives! They are all main characters. They are all Bojacks. We want to see Diane is the one that helps Bojack and when she doesn’t we feel let down, but that’s literally life! You can’t count on someone else for your happiness, that has to come from you, and it has to pass through all the negative shit we say about ourselves! Diane had her own shit going on, and instead of seeing how she is also struggling, we judged her for not being better for someone else.
I love this comment thank you
“Literally every BJH character is unlikable” idk man Todd’s pretty cool
I always liked Diane and understood the belle room thing right away, consider MPB has been acting obnoxious the entire season... don't understand why people thought the belle room thing was "just a gesture with nice intentions". MPB fracks his whole house 20 feet under but somehow it's all ok, because he never bothered to understand what consequences are? I don't get it.
fr shes always hated grand gestures and was upset with him for just doing things without talking to her first. her upset with the belle room made perfect sense to me.
EXACTLY!!!!!
What about when she hid from him for months on end and mr pb just forgave her. I don’t think being mad at a gift is ever okay, doesn’t matter that she doesn’t like it you just appreciate it, it comes off like a spoiled brat where she didn’t get what SHE wanted even though mr pb asked over and over to help make a room for herself in the house. I don’t think she deserves the hate but I just can’t understand someone defending her reaction, it was ridiculous and it showed he listened to her story and since she won’t make a room even though he really wanted her to he tried his best. I don’t think it was even a grand gesture it’s just a room in a house, chill and just move on. I just don’t get why she even dated him in the first place honestly they were just a bad match is all. If you want to make a good example of grand gesture she had a right to hate, I do think him claiming he stole the D was way over the top and completely uncomfortable for anyone to go through, if anything I’d prefer that was when they broke up and made more sense in reality.
@@joro8693 It's because Mr P is plain dumb. He doesn't understand the intellect and deepness of Diane. Diane is really deep and he just doesn't get her. He's a dumb dog. A cute loyal dumb dog who is also incredibly superficial. That what Diane lacked in Mr P and that's why she was always with Bojack. The perfect partner of Diane would be Mr P with his positivity but also with some Bojacks depth.
@@helloworld7818 i get that but i don`t think MPB was dumb. he was clueless until it came to something that would affect him negatively. remember how easily he picked up on BJH being a threat to Diane and his relationship in the first season? He just doesn't want to see how he is destructive.
I loveeeeeee Diane, she totally is the epitome of the struggles of a woman who’s aware and empathetic in a world that wants to alienate her and hate her for speaking the truth. Don’t put Diane down because she’s strong and doesn’t take shit. She’s the most morally-aligned character in the show tbh, besides Todd mychild :)
YES!
I think what makes Diane great as a characer is that her actions are ambiguous - she's righteous and while she is trying to create a better world and call out the bullshit she sees, all she usually does really is make her self miserable. I think this reflects an insight that even when we think that our actions are right and that we're standing up for our moral principles, really this can often be coming from a place of pain and sadness and that our struggling in futile and reactive ways to injustices we see in the world generally won't make anything better and may alientate people from us and cause us to miss out on the opportunity to address our own issues. In the end she is happy because she has accepted that she needs to look after herself and the anti-depressants have allowed her to see and address certain toxic parts of her life.
I think she's an amazing character. Definetly there is a lot to admire about her as well but I don't think it's healthy to look to her as a role model or to see her as somehow morally impecable or unimpeachable. She's complex and messed up like many of the other characters on the show. But, at the end of the day, that's exactly what makes her so interesting and real.
None of the main characters were morally aligned really & Diane is Number 2 in shitty actions right behind Bojack which isn't saying much.
Honestly I feel like the reason people hated Diane is because she didn’t sugar coat things. She was upfront and honest with Bojack when he was being a dick and not a lot of people like that.
It's bc she's hypocrite and a SJW. Basically Lisa Simpson
That's not the reason. It's because she did exactly what Bojack did often. She used her own trauma to hurt others around her, like mr peanut butter.
@@Reykh24It is the reason home boy. Get a clue.
@@adamjustadam it's definitely a mix. The genuine criticism does exist.
@@Reykh24 Her "hurting" Mr. Peanutbutter thanks to her trauma was occasionally yelling at him when he didn't deserve it and then breaking up with him after it became obvious to her that their relationship was probably beyond saving.
Bojack's version of hurting the people he loved was threatening his own suicide via asphyxiation to emotionally blackmail his girlfriend into admitting she cared about him, continuously leading on his longest lasting best friend with on again / off again romantic relationships, firing that same best friend when she a serious mistake because his latest crush told him to, abandoning the friend who made him famous and not talking to him until he was literally dying, nearly r@ping his friend's daughter, choking the fuck out of his girlfriend on a drug-fueled rampage, and then having sex with and enabling a girl he knew since she was 6 until she eventually overdosed and died. After setting up an alibi for himself and waiting 17 minutes to call the paramedics, of course! Because his clean image is more important than her DEATH.
So, yeah, I can totally see the similarities! They're basically the same!!!
/s 😒
She’s my favorite character. The high and mighty thing is incorrect. She is shown to hold herself to the same standards and self loathes because of it. I can’t believe that she would be the most hated character when Bojack literally sabotages his best friend’s rock opera, gets Princess Carolyn’s hopes up and then breaks her heart, fires Diane for writing “bad” about him, gets Kelsey fired, bails on Secretariat, almost sleeps with someone 34 years younger than him who is still in high school, sleeps with his best friend’s special friend, destroys Sarah Lynn’s sobriety and takes her on a bender that leads to her death, forces a fly to move on when he wasn’t ready then destroys the house they built together, calls his assumed daughter garbage, doesn’t believe a boy could actually be attracted to her, chokes Gina, and so many other things. Diane is not the bad guy. She has a complicated nature. I see myself in her.
The fact that she’s one of the most hated characters on this train-wreck of a show makes me lose even more faith in humanity.
To be fair, Sarah Lynn dosed on drugs on her own. She went 9 months sober because she thought drugs would effect better after being sober for so long. Hence why she hid the drugs inside her own home. Bojack was just there to dose with her.
And Bojack was right. Eddie needed to move on. Crying over spilled milk wasn’t going to help with anything. He destroyed his mom’s summer home, not his home. I agree with everything else you said, though. I don’t know why they would hate Diane if Bojack is twice the shitty person that he is. Don’t forget he abandoned Herb for 20 years and gave him a half-assed apology before he died.
I actually wonder if part of the reason people were forgiving of Bojack is because he was so terrible it's almost like his character isn't believable, most people don't know someone THAT messed up personally. Diane, however, is much more accessible, and seems much more real. Combined with the facts that she's a human and has a normal-sized head (Todd's head is huge, and he's shorter than Diane, plus his sequences are kind of fantasy-esque) got herself a college degree and was having trouble finding what she considered meaningful work especially in L.A., people can see themselves in her, or have someone like her in their lives, perhaps multiple people.
Nobody is a bad guy in the show. And the fact that boojack is a shiitty person doesn't make diane a better person so all the things you said are kinda pointless
I didn't know people hated Diane, she's literally my favorite character
They don't. People just have an opinion.
When did having a opinion become "hate " ?
Ik i think she's really well written.
Same
She suffers from Daria syndrome.
@@itisjustacomment ? are u stupid ? "i hate something" is quite literally an opinion. you are saying you dislike something,,..,.. therefore hating.... get over urself
re: the “Belle Room” gesture. I can’t believe people think Diane’s reaction was unreasonable. how would you feel if you felt like your spouse never listened to you? they were together for 10 years ish and he never got it. there weren’t even any real books, showing how hollow and performative the act really was. good intentions don’t mean bunk if, had you been listening to your partner or friend or family member in the first place, you would have known it wouldn’t have actually meant anything to the recipient.
As he pointed out multiple times in the series (especially around the time they were getting that house) that he felt like they didn't truly share anything. He felt like she was just attaching herself to HIS dreams, moving into HIS house. He wanted to be a part of making her dreams come true. Now I'm not saying he didn't half ass the gesture or didn't pay enough attention but I still dont see how that makes her reaction reasonable. Again he actually told her multiple times that he was trying to make a shared dream with her, she never told him that actually fulfilling her childhood dreams would ultimately ruin those dreams and their relationship.
@@michaelvigil3436 If Mr PB felt that way there were other ways to express it than doing something she directly said she didn't like. Like talking to her abt how he felt and coming to a mutual agreement on how to make the house feel more like theirs than his. Instead PB did what he always did and assumed what he wanted was what everyone else wanted. There was zero communication
@@Actualkon What are you talking about? He had that exact talk with her when they were driving to Hawaii and once before that even. He explained that he felt like they didnt share anything together and that she was just attaching herself to his life. He said it made him feel like she had a foot out the door because since they didn't share anything she could easily just leave and move on to the next thing. When they were talking she told him that she always wanted a Belle room (not that it was a fantasy) and he tried to give her that. I dont see how you can say he should have communicated when he clearly did that multiple times.
@@michaelvigil3436 its been a bit since I've seen the show tbh. From what I remember she never agrees to the library being built. Neither of them came to an agreement on how to solve the issue. Yes she didnt say it was a fantasy, but if he already knows she doesn't like big gestures he should've realized she wouldn't like it. On top of that I think the library was one of many of these situations where PB didn't listen, and while on its own it might not seem like a big deal, it was part of a pattern. In the same way with his ex wives, leaving someone alone at a party or letting someone in a mummy costume near them isnt cause for a relationship to deteriorate, but PB does these things repeatedly
@@michaelvigil3436 I think PB simply doesn't listen, he's very much the kind of guy who believes he can make everyone like him. He's not an inherently bad person just that he tries to hard to fix things for other people without fully understanding what's wrong in the first place.
Imagine your partner expressly told you they don't like these big gestures, you could share interests by developing a genuine passion for or at the very least just be comfortable with their hobbies/dreams but instead he focuses on the material things his own success is able to give them. He does it out of fear of abandonment. It can feel patronising to the other person to feel like they're always going to be babied by their SO. Being a pretty bird in a very well kept cage doesn't mean that bird ever stops wanting to fly.
I don't think Diane was being unreasonable, I think like a lot of people her age in a situation like hers(barring super rich TV star bf), being reminded that they can't achieve anything on their own really fucking sucks and it's even worse when you're already depressed, this used to mess me up a lot when I was younger and didn't fully realise I might be depressed. I ended up lashing out or being petty because of it.
Diane for me is one of the best tragic characters because her struggles are relatable for me. I didn't find her issues to be overly dramatic; she's not a self destructive celebrity hooked on drugs, she's someone setting themselves standards and struggling to meet them. Who doesn't do that?
Her self reflection episodes are as meaningful as Princess Carolyn's.
Love seeing someone defending this character.
The second Diane was introduced, I was like “People are going to hate this character”. Not because I didn’t like her, because I love Diane’s character personally. I think she’s very complex and nuanced and is a fantastic character to balance out the show and make the characters more relatable and real. My first thought towards people not liking her, however, stems from the fact that whenever there’s a character like Bojack, when it’s a male character it’s received as funny, relatable, complex, and people like the IDGAF attitude. Whereas whenever there’s a female character like Bojack, in this case Diane, they’re almost always denounced for being whiny and hypocritical and a bitch. I’m not saying anyone does this because they actively hate women, I’m saying this seems to be a bias that many people have deep in their subconscious. God knows I’ve had it for the majority of my life. Had I watched this show even just a year or two ago, I probably wouldn’t have liked her either. I had to acknowledge and actively change my own internal bias, and it was difficult. As a woman, I didn’t WANT to admit that other women pissed me off more than men. I always tried to pass myself off as “not like the other girls” and condemn other women for just being who and what they wanted. For looking however they wanted to look. For acting however they wanted to act. For talking however they wanted to talk. And I feel like Diane’s character encompasses that; the idea that you need to look at yourself and make changes. You judge others harshly, and have to turn that same lens on yourself and make judgements about yourself as well. Whereas, Bojack was more of a “this is just the way I am so why change it this is out of my control” kind of guy (at least in the beginning...I’m not saying that’s how his character stayed towards the end). But also, I think that’s part of what the writers intended. Bojack is rich and privileged and he could get away with a lot more than a woman in his same position would be, and that is reflected in the fan reaction to her character. I believe this is intentional, and the writers are GOOD at delving into shit like that and exploring it. I’ve found that the people who say they hate Diane are often people who have unresolved issues and are angry at the way her character points out that yes, it’s okay to have flaws, but you have to actively work to get better and overcome them. Whereas the people who like Diane as a character are people who have grown and moved past their traumas and strive to be better, mistakes and all. No one is telling you to be perfect, they’re just telling you to be mindful and to work on yourself. Everyone works through these things at their own pace, and it’s okay to not be there yet. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as you make an effort to be better. To DO better. It’s okay to do bad things sometimes. It’s okay to make mistakes. No one is perfect, and Diane isn’t either. That’s the point. I think you said it well in this video. Thank you!
She's not complex not nuanced. She's a typical millennial liberal.
@@eve3363 what
wow this was such a great read. from another who loves Diane’s character, thank you so much!
@@eve3363 Misogyny everyone 🙄
@@eve3363 wow that was great, so insightful
all the charecter are whiny, hippocratical, self destructive, and often horrible but that’s what makes them so real. i think the people who hate diane so much hate her because they see themselves in her.
Sometimes, the people you detest the most are the individuals whom you share the most kinship with.
@@annalisasauter7935 omg beatrice and bojack
People who defend Diane see themselves in her. People who hate Diane probably know someone insufferable like Diane in their own lives.
diane is literally my favorite character, i had no clue people didn't like her
if you like all of what you see, and you relate to the character, then you like Diane.
But if you don't like what you see and you relate to the character, then you don't like Diane.
SAME
Diane is my favorite character because bojack reminds me of myself too much and Diane is too similar to the girl who saved my life and so Diane was that girl to me and so Diane was happiness and goodness to me
I feel like what people say about Diane is what they would say about me
She is the worst character ever. And you can see her getting more annoying, fatter and getting shorter hair as she turns into a full on femenist
Honestly it's people hating characters like Diane that remind me that the majority of people can't tell what high functioning long term depression looks like or how wide it's impact can span and the sacrifices people need to make to be stable after crashing from seeming put together not even to mention the mood shifts it can cause
Honestly, the whole library thing just made me mad. Not at Diane, but at Peanutbutter. Through the series we see here tell him more than once that she doesn't like the grand displays of affection. And time and time again, we see him to something over the top, because that's what he likes, that's what he wants. I get that he just wanted to show her love, in a way that he thought was best. But that just wasn't her. He never listened.
Finally! I remember thinking this. I get that when it comes to gift giving "it matters most if it comes from the heart", but she did tell him she was uncomfortable with grand gestures. I remember cringing at the engagement scene when he brought in all of those people.
Well, Peanutbutter was never really the listener-type. People usually love others the way they wish to be loved themselves.
Two completely different love languages. He does unbelievably obnoxious grand gifts, she does personal moments where she gets high as a kite and vividly describes what he means in her life.
Doesn’t make him or her bad for that.
Sarah Nicole But she told her that she didn’t like grand gestures and the library he gave her wasn’t even real.
Emma White Again. Two.different.love.languages.
Your partners love language isn’t always going to match your own. Hers isn’t wrong, nor is his.
just watched a video essay w two men saying diane was a “bad person” and “ungrateful” and “unrelatable” 🤦🏻♀️ here to cleanse
To be fair, all the characters are bad people in their own right. As for unrelatable, I think people hate her because she’s too relatable in a not fun or fantastical way and that’s scary to them.
@@jacknightingale4428 I think Diane is the closest thing to a good person.
Evan Dugas nah, that would be PC. She’s my favorite character.
@@jacknightingale4428 PC is awesome but I would not call her good per say. She is a hard worker and she is admirable and skilled at her job. that being said she does whatever it takes to advance her career in most cases. She can be a bit cut throat. I think with Diane she actually tries to make the world a better place. Through her blog, through going to the forgin country. Even if she fails she still tries to make the world better.
of course it comes from men...
I feel like Diane was the most relatable, most intellectually honest character.
When watching the show Diane is meant to be flawed like everyone else at first she seem like the voice of reason but in the last two episodes of season 1 we saw the real Diane and the point of the other seasons was meant to show Diane thinking she was making a effort even know some of it was for herself and i don't really see her as a complete hypocrite but as a person who tries to get everyone to see what she wants and uses stuff as a weapon to get what she wants like the gun story
Thats because you aren't very intelligent
it's wild to me that people will rake diane over the coals when, most of the time, her bad behavior is so, so much less outwardly destructive than bojack's. diane can be callous, sometimes, but bojack is downright cruel and thoughtless towards others. they both use their mental health issues as a crutch, but while bojack uses it to excuse his behavior (especially toward the beginning of the show), diane uses it as fuel to genuinely want to change/make change, even though she doesn't have the tools to do so. i think that both of them show how the same background can manifest in two different ways, and the reactions to them -- both from characters on the show and the fans -- show how eager we are to forgive certain people for their objectively awful behavior and not others.
Which is why it waa great when they talk for the last time. They bettered themselves at the end...even if they both still have a long way to go.
But they're on track now.
Same to me. To be honest, when I watched the show, I didn’t understand bojack, he seemed kind of alien to me. A little bit hostile, because he wasn’t working on his problems.- or at least not in a direction in which I would do... so I understand Diane more, because I have a similar set of subconscious programs throughout life. Or maybe the way we make choices is similar, in general. To be honest I just understand her more. Good comment
I’m going to be blasted for this, but I think we can learn a lesson in self improvement from Diane. Rather than wallow in her own moral filth and just accept that she can’t become a better person, Diane uses her family’s treatment of her as fuel to her fire to improve herself. I mean, I for one could learn a thing or two from her about moving on from the past and pushing yourself to be better. I wish I had the strength she does to silence the voices in her head. I honestly wish I did.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios I just want to say, you seem like a cool person and I hope and trust that you'll achieve your goals. I don't know how to put it less awkwardly, but there's just something very sympathetic about what you said and as it's probably pretty rare to get that vibe from YT comments, I thought it worthwhile to let you know. Take care
Schwartz Schwartz Thanks man. I’ve been going through a depressive episode, so I really needed to hear something like that. You take care too.
I really like and appreciated your defense of Diane. Personally one of my favorite characters in the show because I do feel she is just as broken as Bojack and as you say, has been trying to improve herself through therapy, ending a relationship, etc etc. It doesn't work out for Diane and she does play the role of the voice of reason but she tries. In trying and repeatedly failing, she shows that change is hard, which is never popular. I learned something valuable after the Belle room scene. I didn't get it at first, but that was her dream, and her goal. She has every right to grow and struggle to try and achieve her dream without it being handed to her. Despite it all, she sticks to one of her core values which is helping her friends and trying to remain loyal in those relationships, even if at times she can be disloyal to herself and at the expense of others. Great take!
Thank you for your thoughtful well constructive comments.
Bojack: *almost takes advantage of a minor*
Fandom: *_I sleep_*
Diane: *rejects a gift*
Fandom *_REAL SHIT_*
Historically men have gotten away with more than women. This is evidence of that.
@@ArianaAlexis it's not about that, men or women people are people. it doesn't matter that men have done more atrocious acts each person is there own and shouldn't be generalized by sex or race. Also it just seems that more people associate with Bojack more than Diane because more of the audience have similar parallels to bojack and may have done horrible acts as him or acted like him more
@@ArianaAlexis umm no
I'm female and men get significantly longer and harsher sentences whilst women get excused for our disgusting and shitty behaviour
@@softie6034 Statistics show men get harsher sentences lmao
Bojack isnt self righteous though.
Honestly I feel like everyone who hates Dianne are split cleanly in to two halves: they hate her because they're a Bojack or they hate her because they are also Dianne
You hate most in others what you hate in yourself.
I think part of it also has to do with how her immigration status was handled by the writers. I really liked her trip to Vietnam, but I almost thought it would have been better if the parents or a parent had a stronger connection to their culture. That or specify they're 3rd or 4th generation so that her being completely disconnected makes more sense. She calls herself an immigrant, but it has no impact until that trip.
@xxsniperkittykatxx I'm not an immigrant so I can't talk from experience, but wouldn't it make sense for it to not be impactful all the time if she was born and raised in America, I'm sure it's different for all kinds of immigrant people though.
That's crazy that people cite her slumming it at Bojack's as the reason why they don't like her character. I never liked her more than that moment. She was finally taking a break, and not worrying about being a hero for anyone or sticking up for what is right (and constantly being putdown/neglected/marginalized for it) and just truly thinking about her self and what she actually wanted to do in the moment. We saw multiple times on that show that bojack would slum it up or go on a bender, regardless of what other people had going on in their lives. And I thought in a weird way, it showed that they had a true friendship. That bojack was the only person that she'd feel comfortable being truly pessimistic and kinda destructive around. And the fact that she was so ashamed about how she couldn't handle Cordovia that she lied and hid from her husband because she was so embarrassed, idk it just made me really appreciate her character honestly.
Also people act like coming back from a war-torn country where you saw children dying in bombings isn't traumatizing enough to justify her slumming for months. She was fucked up from that. I feel like most of us would be.
@@xoTalim
Tbf I don't think people were mad that she left they were mad that she went to Bojack's instead of going to see Mr. Peanutbutter and didn't tell him for months
@@mikemorro140 She wanted to self-loathe though, which she cannot do with MRPB, but can easily do with someone like Bojack. I mean, yeah it's wrong that she kind of brought Bojack down with her a bit in that situation, but again, all these characters are flawed. The fact Diane didn't go to MRPB just proves that he doesn't really get her either. Bojack may get her more but they are still a recipe for disaster and play off of each others insecurities far too much to be functional.
@@Ray03595
I can point out a lot of flaws in Mr.Peanutbutter but Diane not coming back for months wasn't a problem with him
@@mikemorro140, not inherently, no. But it was *related* to an issue with Mr. PB, which became an issue for his and Diane's marriage as well. Mr. PB refuses to acknowledge negative emotions. Whenever Diane tries to talk to him about serious things (like she'd have to do when she came back from Cordovia), he shuts down and changes the subject or just straight-up walks away from her and pretends the negative emotions don't exist. It's an extremely toxic trait that becomes more apparent as the series goes on, and the reason Diane went to Bojack instead is because she knew that going to Mr. PB with her feelings would be useless. He would just walk away like he always does.
"She makes people uncomfortable for not changing, that's why people don't like her"
When a person makes another realize that something they are doing is wrong, they lash out at that source, state they are bad for doing so and ostracize them. People don't want to be better, they want to be told everything they are is okay and to be coddled. This is actually why I like Diane over many in the show because she is against the easy way of existence and makes people realize there is something wrong.
Same and this is why I was so shocked seeing this like I never knew people despised her so strongly. If anything I love her for the reasons everyone hates her for because I feel represented by her. The whole show I couldn't get over how much I related to her especially after never really seeing a character portraying anxiety (at least the anxiety disorder I experience) the way she does, it really is validating. It might be more validating knowing there's people who despise or don't understand why she does the things she does because I've been met with that same constant shutdown and lack of understanding from others. Idk I can't speak for everyone with GAD and I don't remember if the show says she has an anxiety disorder but she's probably one of the most relatable characters for that alongside the main character of spirals all the way down. sorry for the paragraph lol
100%
That second to last sentence reminded me of “In this world you can do things the easy way or the right way. You take a boat from here to New York. You gonna go around the horn like a gentleman, or cut through the Panama canal like some kind of Democrat?”
The funny thing is the viewers who lash out at her are missing the point entirely. Throughout the series, we watch her be a source of needless ridicule for calling out the failures of others - exactly what's being done in real life. We see it constantly with Bojack, but also when she called out the Bill Cosby parody character and many others.
Nailed it
I feel like P. Carolyn and Diane should've been a lot closer.
They're as close as they're written. Thanks for watching.
I liked Diane as a sort of anti-Bojack. While Bojack always wanted to be better, he was perfectly willing to take the easy way out whenever offered to him, whereas Diane more often than not takes the difficult route of trying to prove herself and failing in different ways. But at the end of the day, I never doubted that Diane has a good heart. Bojack oftentimes gave me the vibe that, while he wants to do better, that desire was purely driven by his narcissistic need to prove to himself that he’s a good person, not out of the actual desire to be better.
Bojack literally choked a woman, almost had sex with a 17y/o girl, helped a sober girl relapse and OD. AND DIANE? Is the most irredeemable character?
Believe me, there's a lot of people that don't even see Bojack was wrong almost having sex with Penny...
I love Diane I wanna like BoJack cuz he’s relatable but believe me it’s getting hard
I'm not disagreeing with any of this but Sarah Lynn got sober for the whole point of relapsing. Bojack was not going to dissuade her from that course but his efforts to cover his own ass may have cost Sarah her life. Diane is the only character I can 100% like because she's genuinely trying to be a good person in an awful world.
@@DavidLuis198 yeah because different countries and states have different ages of consent. so for many its not wrong.
@@kyleellis9177 laws aren't the same as power dynamics, and it's sketchy no matter what. that's something the show itself pointed out.
I think Diane is the person that cared the most about bojack.. I don’t hate her at all
Princess Carolyn cared a lot for Bojack.
@@Passions5555 I agree however Diane was the person who pushed Bojack to finally seek help
@@krisinallcaps true. PC was caring but a bit of an enabler as well.
This is the strongest point Ive seen in Diane's defense, you're right, she's a very caring person and probably did help Bojack with his issues the most out of anyone in the show- including Bojack himself.
I feel like almost every action from Diane in the show can be justified in more than one way.
Ok, justify her cheating with mr peanut butter. Thats the worst thing she did imo
@@kaedenparten9126 I feel as tho Diane had no obligation to the relationship that ended due to them cheating. It takes two and one of them had a promise so imo the fault falls on them. The other was basically doing what single people do. I’m not saying she was completely right but justified in the right that she didn’t owe anybody anything atp
@@lundellsimmons756 well i suppose we just fundamentally disagree on that issue, because I think that if you KNOW you are cheating with someone you are in the wrong just as much as they are for doing it. Respect your opinion though
This comment is stupid. Every person on BJH was written as a flawed person to represent different societal issues,
Most characters can have some crazy and messed up justification for their actions. Heck, you can, “justify”, Beatrice’s bad actions on her childhood and husband.
However, that isn’t the point, the point is that just about every character, while having a bad backstory to explain why they are broken, they still will do horrible things and hurt people.
Diane is a bad person throughout most of the show, Diane knows she is a bad person, that is the point. Yeah, you can easily point to her backstory and say, “this is why she is like this”, but you can do the same for PC, for Bojack, for Beatrice, and more. Yet, that doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t good people.
Most of the time, people hate Diane for the same reasons they understand and feel bad for Bojack, or call him “relatable”. No one in the show is perfect but she gets the most hate mostly for being a woman and having flaws that don’t benefit others, like Princess Carolyn’s compulsive need to help everyone else.
"While Bojack and everyone else makes the audience comfortable with being broken, Diane makes the audience uncomfortable that they're not doing anything about it."
This is so perfect! I have friends who have said they didn't like Diane on the show. I never disliked her, and then on my 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, 5th...etc...) re-watch, she became my favorite character. I've defended her to them by saying that she actually tries to be better and wants her loved ones to want to improve. But like everyone in life, they sometimes fail, but she does her best to pick her self back up even if she doesn't have the best support structure. (MPB is optimistic to a fault and ignores actual issues, BJH will spiral downwards with her, PC might help but will do so by seeing how she can benefit from it as well).
For me, my favorite summation of Diane was her conversation with Stefani Stilton.
SS: You know what your problem is? You hold everyone to an impossible standard. including yourself. It's super helpful for writing hot-take shakedowns and click-bate take-downs, but totally toxic for your personal life and internalized sense of self worth, girl!.
DN: But shouldn't we be asking more of ourselves and of the people in our lives?
SS: Of course, but we all fail, Diane. The world is unforgiving enough as it is. The least we can do is find ways to forgive each other and ourselves.
I don't hate dislike Diane but that quote is simply wrong. Diane is not doing anything about being broken in the end, she is just taking drugs to escape from reality kinda like Bojack during the show. If anything Bojack is the one who make you feel bad for not doing anything about your situation because the guy went to rehab, work on himself and find happiness in teaching even when he was in jail.
@@51dodoc Diane actually gets shit done. She wrote a book, she created a successful blog and she creates work she is proud of. So she does not accept failure. She is no princess carolin but she is a good person.
@@evandugas7888
Oh yeah Diane definitely accomplished a lot and she is a great character but when it comes to overcoming depression I think Bojack did much more by actually working on himself and changing who he is while Diane got into antidepressants who are just a temporary solution.
@@51dodoc Hm well Bojack did not fix himself by the end. He ended up in prison. Bojack may try to fix himself but he fails. My head cannon is he got better after prison but Diane actually got a bit better .
@@51dodoc bruh,,,,antidepressants are not a crutch or temporary solution, they exist to fix problems with your brain. depression is a clinical disorder and for a lot of people with depression, their brains *literally cannot make the necessary chemicals to feel better*, so they get supplemented by antidepressants. Personally, I am nearsighted. You wouldn't call my glasses a "temporary solution." To compare depression, a mental illness, to a physical illness: you wouldn't tell a sick person to stop taking their medicine because it's "getting into drugs." They need that medicine to recover. Never try to make people feel bad about taking the steps they need to feel better.
I never understood why people hated Diane. And in a way it made me nervous, because - well, I am like her in so many ways.
When you want to hold yourself and people accountable, and think we should all strive to be better it is often seen as being "on a high horse" and being condescending. In fact it often stems from two things - seeing all the ways that society is fucked up and how much people suffer because of it, and having such low self esteem that the only way you could possibly be worth something is if you strive and reach (or at least come close to) perfection. And you expect other people to feel the same way, when many are content just acknowledging their own shittyness and not doing anything about it (like Bojack for most of the series). It's a frustrating place to be in when you fight so damn hard, and people just hate you for it.
I've fought all my life to be perfect and tried to make the world a better place, but eventually broke down and had years of Diane's "bumming out at Bojack's house". Just giving up, because nothing ever gets better, and sometimes you just can't anymore. That's not in contradiction with trying to be a good person, it's a natural reaction to constantly fighting and being depressed and feeling like you are never good enough. Somehow it seems like we're more comfortable with that mindset when it comes from someone that never tries, but when it comes from someone that tries to hold everyone to a high standard, it's "hypocritical". But striving to be better is about just that - striving. Not being perfect, because no one is.
This comment almost made me cry
This is the one. I felt almost shameful when I found out people hated Diane. I thought "Am i doing something wrong for being like her and admiring her character?" which is such a Diane thought, immediately wanting to better myself and worrying. I have countless memories of me calling people out in social settings and it never landing well and me being so frustrated. I wanted people to "wake up" but they didn't care for that. I still struggle to accept that there are people ok with being content. It literally ruined my last relationship. This was a beautiful take!
THANK. YOU. That's exactly the point. It's so hurtful to try and make the world better for everyone, but then see how people don't care about anything that's so important to you, and in return get waves of hate.
Thank you. This is exactly how i am feelabout this. Im in the bumming out at bojacks house phase and im really glad i found this video and this comment. to all the other "diane's" out there, keep fighting. Fight to better yourself not for others but because you want to be better. We don't need anyones approval besides our own.. no matter how much we want others approval. We will eventually be happy and on the other side of recovery but it takes time.. but eventually it will happen, eventually we will be off of bojacks couch and will be chillin with guy. Everything is gonna be ok.
I love this comment. I also think they took her character in such an interesting direction because she didn't end up being perfect at all! She didn't make a huge change in the world. She ended up writing fiction, marrying a simple, nice guy, and moving to Houston, and guess what?!! She was happy! She ultimately found satisfaction with just making a positive impact on those around her (Guy, his son) and accepting herself for who she was, without chasing this need to prove her worth through altruistic achievement. I relate to her a lot too, and I thought that was such an interesting character choice for her.
Perhaps everybody hates her because in some way we all have a Diane sort of voice inside telling us what should we most do, we hate that it's right and we just can't help to ignore it. Diane represents that conscious, brave part of the duality of depression while Bo jack plays the pity, comfortable and sinking part.
Diane is a very well-written character. I absolutely understood everything she did in the show... The beautiful thing about her story is that she helped Bojack get out of his own problems and only after seeing him change she finally decided to help herself up. They basically helped each other. Unlike as you might have thought from the first seasons, that she will be the one who will be providing help. And that's the hidden masterpiece of this show. Even the strongest characters have their own problems to deal with.
Confession time:
I still have a crush on Diane.
Same
Same
Same
@@softlights26 ok
-a straight guy
@@softlights26 pretty fast response for someone who commented a month ago
specifically her character development after the divorce was absolutely beautiful, I love the show but watching her grow has to be my favourite part of it.
I fell in love with someone who was very much like Diane, and sadly, I had a similar relationship with her as Bojack did. We were friends, and I was toxic. Our friendship ended and it really sucked. I am surprised to find out people didn't like her
Glad you are able to relate to this show. I hope that you are doing fine today.
same, i cried watching the scene of when bojack asks her at the ghost writing confrence if she thinks he can be a good person. all i could think about is when i did that same thing to my personal diane. id like to think im a better person now, that im not toxic and self destructive. but watching bojack and diane's relationship i couldnt stop thinking about how it almost perfectly mirriored my relationship with her.
@@amiliastorm me too..it was so accurate
I love Diane. I also always thought that she and Bojack were soulmates. Like, soulmates that could never actually be together romantically because they were like gasoline to a fire, but like, twin flames, or something. They understood each other better than anyone else understood them
Ooooh I love that. That's so accurate.
I don't find Diane offensive. If anything, I find her the most relatable. Diane, near the end of the series, has a monologue about the experience of having once been close to Bojack, but now she has no part in his life. I had a close friend, but we stopped a few years ago. It's hard to accept that loss - Diane Nguyen made me able to accept that loss. ❤
She's my favorite in this show and i was overwhelmed with joy when she flashed her engagement ring
Diane was the realest character in the whole show honestly.
thats certainly what they were going for. I've known a few valley girl manipulative types like diane and amber heard, I will NEVER tolerate another one as long as i live. Dianes are the fucking worst.
I relate to Diane so hard and watching her in Bojack helped me realize my own problems. I'm not surprised that people are so misogynistic towards her. People loooove Bojack and hate Diane :/
Even tho bojack is all the things people claim bojack is and is severely more reprehensible in his actions
*claim Diane is
it's because bojack knows when he has done something wrong and feels bad about it, Diane does not even realize when she has done something wrong because she puts up a fasade of being a good person
@@nathan9523 Did you not watch the show she knows she does bad things but tries to run from the problem and act like it doens't exist it's a coping strategy watch the full video and think about the points made in it.
@@nathan9523 bojack doesn’t get a pass cuz he knows what he’s done is bad. Literally one of the main themes to his arc is realising that he’s not good just because he acknowledges he’s done bad things.
I actually liked Diane, I was surprised at the hate she got
She is my favorite character because she feels so real and relatable
Mine, as well. And yes, so very relatable.
if i'm being honest, in my first watch of the show, diane's reaction to a lot of things used to agitate me. i never hated her, but from saying nothing at bojack's, "i need you to tell me that i'm good," and her dislike of mister peanutbutter's library gift, i just couldn't put my finger on why it made me so mad. looking back, i realize that a lot of my relation to bojack comes from that crutch of others for my own trauma. i am comfortable when people excuse some of my questionable actions from pity. but when diane didn't give him the satisfaction of being told he's a good person, it made me mad. i was uncomfortable that she couldn't be the support he, or how i saw it- i needed. but not only did bojack not deserve that satisfaction he's already gotten so many times, but he put her in an extremely abrupt spot. additionally, the problems with the gifts was not with the gift itself. it didn't matter how personalized it was- diane has made her dislike of outlandish presents clear from the get go. but mister peanutbutter's inability to listen really shines when he admits to her it was because she made him feel like diane was a guest, making HIM uncomfortable. she is such a smart, multi-layered character, and i will always remember that scene in season 5 with the 4th wall break. calling me and many others' out that bojack is not there to make you feel better about being a bad person. diane is working on herself and trying to be better, and is so much more than a plot-device to make bojack, MP, or any other character just feel good about themselves.
wait what is the 4th wall break in season 5?
i think her not saying bojack that he is a good person is what makes her one of the best characters in the show. she knows who bojack is, and seems to be the only person to know him well, and saying he is good would not help him at all. bojack did nothing to show us that he is actually good. yes, he had a shitty family but having a shitty family doesn't give you any right to ruin other people's life and treat them like dirt. so diane was not playing around and she was being a real friend. but i guess a lot of people don't like it when you don't say the things they wanna hear.
That last part 👏🏼 Exactly! Diane wasn't just someone to propel the MC, she was her own person.
@@wanda5548 well said 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 a true friend will tell you the truth and not let you flounder and give yourself a pass when they know you can do better
I feel like Diane actually understand what it meant to "take responsibility for your own happiness" and to "not feel bad about it", and the reason why she doesn't like grand gestures would go back to the "Cryanne" video
I always identified more with Diane than with any of the other characters.
that means people probably dont like you either
@@trigremlin shut up
to me, Diane was the most relatable. she's the only one who *doesn't* have a horrible, completely tragic backstory and astounding, almost unbelievable trauma. what she did have is a couple of shitty parents and some shitty brothers, who weren't out right abusive to her but said so many mean things to her and never gave her support. Diane was the most... normal person on the show. i like to think she has C-PTSD, so many tiny, insignificant traumas building up overtime that accumulate into her subconscious. that episode where she was trying to write about her life and was attempting to come up with "valid" examples of her horrible life, but couldn't, really set the tone for how sad she was. i personally felt related to her. i've never had a significant, life altering trauma happen to me; what i have gone through is things like bullying, insults from parents, and little incidents that left me emotionally unavailable at times. all of these seemingly *nothing* things still ended up making me severely depressed and i was suicidal for years.... without exact reason for it.
what i am trying to get at is Diane is the common (wo)man- neutral ground. she's not a celebrity, she didn't grow up with abusive parents, and she's not actively putting herself into harms way, and yet she still gets depressed. she still hates herself. AND she's completely, 100% aware of it.
i think Diane represents the majority. it can be hard to connect with characters like Bojack because the problems he faces are so extreme and illegal and so, so awful. Diane is the bridge between Bojack and ourselves, a reflection of many people who feel the same way she does without true cause
💯💯💯
this is extremely late, but im just here to say that what her family did to her WAS abuse, and bullying IS abuse. its considered emotional, and psychological abuse. you can even say she was physically abused by her bullies, as she talks about being hurt by them in an episode. anyways, my point is, even if it wasn't 'severe' abuse, it still was that. you and others deserve the label as well, it can help with some of the pressures of not feeling 'damaged enough'. you're only human, of course that would be enough to hurt you for the rest of your life.
ik im late but this just explained everything so neatly. its like you took what i was thinking and couldnt put into words, into words. this is really well put is all im saying
I always thought Diane was so hated because she's openly a feminist and is what some people would describe as a (ugh...) """SJW""".
I'm convinced at least some people feel that way.
Because she is a sjw stereotype. Especially at the scene in the background of 9:49 . Bojack offered to take responsibility for his actions, and she said it wasnt good enough. What IS good enough? What does she expect him to do about his mistakes? If nothing can be done, its fine for her to not have anything to do with him, but it was ridiculous to keep screaming at him over them.
Still despise her. She's basically a self righteous SJW through the entire show. Bojack starts out very self righteous too, and I despised him just as much, but we see how he suffers internally, how his selfish nature is shielding himself from completely hating himself. How he truly thinks he's a piece of shit who makes everything worse. We don't get that same level of anguish or humility with Diane, she feels very arrogant through and through with little justification for it.
That’s my take on it. She’s everything that’s wrong with feminism. Only looking at surface level arguments and not looking deeper into the things she wants to tear down like the invisible “patriarchy” Also shes a shit human being and shitty friend.
viera you’re telling me modern feminism isn’t superficial? All it is is arguing over things that are easily debunked and made up bullshit like micro aggression and hate speech. And yes, the patriarchy is a myth for salty cunts to bitch and whine over because they can’t figure out that they are the only reason their life is in tatters.
Yeah just look a not a robot
Considering the themes of the show, it always surprised me how much hate Diane gets. I'm glad to see a defense of her.
She's always been my favourite character
I can see that
Mine too!
I really like her
Same! I saw myself in her.
Sooooo Diane was always the character I felt I related to the most. Finding out everyone hates her kinda hit me in a particular way
Who cares. In the sence who cares if people dislike her she is doing her. She knew what she wants and settled for less for a long time. She helps by being painfully honest to people because hopefully saying it out loud it will change her too.
I know how you feel as I felt the same way when i first found out about the hate for Brittany in the community fandom.
Wow, I like Diane very much, no issues with her. I had no idea people dislike her.
Now you do. Although I sense more people like than dislike.
I do understand the whole Dianne getting mad at the library, because when you are raised in a abusive family and at a place you can't wait to escape and you have no friends, you create a safe place in your head where you can imagine going, or you can imagine having it one day. You feel that it would make everything right. So many times in my life I have carried on instead of giving up, because I tell myself I will one day have a John Rylands library replica in my future house and it will make everything right. But if I walk into that replica one day out of surprise, and nothing changes, I would die.
"Why does everyone hate Diane and love Bojack?" -it's the misogyny-
Or maybe she was just annoying
@@aidancorless2563 Yup misogyny
Bearsh thebear yeah buddy I hate her character cuz she’s a girl lmao, stop trying to nit pick at everything and make it about something deeper than it is. By saying that I don’t like the character because she’s a female you’re basically saying that I’m only allowed to dislike male characters because otherwise it’s misogynistic. Like honestly just stfu
Aidan What’s annoying about her that doesn’t make bojack annoying?
KillTheCupcakes well for starters the fact that she never really apologises for the shitty things she does and when she does shitty things they are always portrayed as though they’re out of spite rather than drug abuse exct. like bojak. Also the fact that she acts like she’s so much better than everyone else but deep down she’s just as messed up as the rest of them pisses me off because she judges the other characters on how shitty they are without acknowledging that she is shitty aswell.
Im surprised that Diane gets so much hate. She’s actually the only one in the show that gave me hope.
Like yeah I get that the show normalizes being broken. It’s supposed to be comforting. But I was actually horrified at how similar I was to bojack, at the idea that if I’m like him maybe I’ll never change. That the voice telling you how awful you are never goes away, that no matter what you do, you’ll relapse etc
But as broken as diane May be, she never stopped trying she never stopped believing in bojack as angry as she could be and that was amazing to me.
My friend was talking about how Diane is so annoying and she was always one of my favorite characters because she is the lens that the creator used most of is personal beliefs through. Thanks for putting into words what I could not about why Diana is not an annoying character, just a flawed one struggling to find their way just like the rest of the cast.
I cannot believe people don't like Diane! I feel she is the only character that that holds Bojack accountable. Which he desperately needs
i was proud of diane at the end. she isn't perfect but she's definitely making strides to be content with herself and the way who she is
I had no idea Diane was such a hated character. Her constant effort to improve herself despite how hopeless she thinks it is sometimes was what I liked best about her character.
I didn't even know she wasn't liked lol Out of the main cast, she's definitely the one I'd prefer to be friends with.
I really relate to Diane getting mad about the Belle Room.
My mother use to throw birthday parties for me but she always designed them the way she wanted her birthdays to be.
So if I ever said “I want an indoor birthday where we play board games” she would make it an outdoor birthday with a bonfire and loud music.
I now hate celebrations of any kind because I realized people don’t do nice things unless it feels nice for them. My birthdays were always catered to my mother or my friends, my baby shower was catered to my friends and in-laws, etc.
Diane doesn’t like big romantic gestures… But of course Mr. PB had to do this huge gesture because it felt nice for him but it wasn’t considering her and what she wants.
I’m very sorry for you
Yeah, I hate that shit too. Most of my birthdays it would be a friend or two of mine saying "We should go do this!" "We should travel to this place!" And then two minutes later, they'd say "Or whatever Tom (me) wants to do." Not that my birthday is for me to be the boss or be recognized, but I think "Dude, it's not YOUR birthday!" Before I turned 25, I invited a few friends to go to San Diego with me, I had the hotel picked. One friend said we should check rates at the naval base. Another suggested three other locations- St Petersburg Florida, Hermosillo Mexico, and Vegas. I clearly told him each time I wanted to do San Diego. When he suggested Vegas, I was like "Okay, that's it. No more from you." I'm still best friends with him, but he was basing his suggestions on what *he* wanted to do.
that's so real. whenever it's my birthday my mother would always pick a birthday cake that SHE likes, even though I always tell her I just want a simple chocolate cake or a strawberry cake. And when I told her I wanted to get a cat, I told her I love every cat and I don't care what breed it is, but she just had to pick one that SHE liked, and spent an insane amount of money to buy the cat. and just basically whenever she says she wants to get something for me, she actually means she wants to get something that she likes for me.
Finally someone who understands Diane. That's why her relationship with Guy is so meaningful. He supports her and loves her for who she is, and pushes her to be her best self when she needs it. He is a really good Guy.
I've never interacted with the fandom until very recently so I was really surprised with the hate Diane got when the traits she's acused off are present in so many other beloved characters (don't get me wrong, I love them too). She's one of my favourite characters and this video really explained why
Same, I had no idea until I saw this video!
I've always liked Diane. I related to her a lot, I used to wish I could give as insightful advice as her. I had no clue people disliked her
People are quock to forget how traumatic Cordovia was for diane, how she wakes up shouting "Kinko" for the child that she was trying to help and died in a bombing, when she got back she had PTSD and war related trauma, she couldn't confront that well and that is what people criticize, because they don't understand this character. Is ironic that the worst person in the show, bojack himself, is one of the least criticized. Many of his faults are from his upbringing, but the worse parts can't be pinned on his parents.