Gregg Barsby's New Disc Golf Foot Fault Rule
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
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I just don't care about minor foot faults. It's not like the player gets an advantage if they are out of the box an inch on a run up. They only time I care is just blatant cheating around foot faults. Like the Ricky foot fault was really bad.... Here's the problem though, 99% of the time I'm trying to watch for the disc flight to try and help someone find a disc or help with OB placement, etc.. Rarely am I watching feet. Disc watching is much more important in terms of flow of the game.
I completely agree. I think a player who slightly steps on the edge of their disc by mistake on a wide open shot is still following the spirit of the law and should not be penalized. Same thing for time violations; a player who finishes their throws in 10-20 seconds should not be penalized if they take 45 seconds once a round on a particularly tricky lie.
@@Migrean exactly
They do get an advantage because others are making an effort to have a proper stance even if it’s awkward. If they are not trying to keep it by the book then they are making life easier on themselves.
@Bill A Not in that instance, that becomes blatant. I was more talking about the one time a round someone might turn their foot to throw and slide and touch their disc. Does NOT deserve a stroke. The guy that repeatedly is always off, yeah maybe a stroke is needed. I still think it should be mentioned first before a stroke and reshot. The penalty doesn't fit the crime. If it happens again, well yeah somethings going on, a stroke then.
Same…
What happens if two people nefariously plan to just screw someone over even if nothing happened?
This is honestly very real and has happened to me during AM rounds. Get two buddies that dont like you on a card and see how quick the bullshit starts coming out. Especially if youre whooping them.
To me the biggest thing with foot faults is intent …. Most often it’s when in trees trying to get and advantage for a better line , but if a player makes an honest effort in the fairway and gets no advantage by accidentally faulting slightly im never Guna call that
Well said.
How drunk was Stokely on those foot faults? Lmao. I’ve seen that a dozen times and laugh every time…
It's hard to see from that camera angle but that hill gets steep quick and probably had some bumps, rocks ,holes on the run up.. I've played that course once in the summer and before I even got done with 1 round my legs were screaming. I think they still played like 10 rounds for that tournament.
He wasn’t off by a foot. This cost him the chance of winning worlds. They called him three times in row. Absolute bullshit and still makes me mad to this day.
Gonna correct myself it was twice. But was given two others on the round I’m pretty sure of. You can’t find the full video anymore but it was bizarre to me.
@@thelegendarye2430 it was complete bullshit. They screwed Scot
Every time I see that one called on Nikko when he’s putting I just think why? That side view looks like a clean straddle with no advantage. Just seemed more personal than anything.
Hard to judge without being there. I watched that round an felt it was a boiling over point. They had questionable previous ones then finally felt it was time to call it. As for the timing in the round or scores I don't believe played a factor but could quite likely been personal.
There was a beef going on in the round between him and Schultz. It clearly was not a foot fault but it was even seconded somehow? Lol
It is completely ridiculous, Barry totally could have said something while Nikko was lining it up, but CHOSE NOT TO, TO GAIN A STROKE! That is unfair, has happened to me before
@@caleb_the_discgolfer you can always ask as you're lining up if you're good. 😎👍
Regarding players on your card failing to watch you throw, how do you get them to stay on top of watching a gunslinger putter like myself? Cam Todd inspired me to go up and putt. It removes the mental aspect of the game (and it gets in my competitions head unintentionally).
I'm fine with the rule as it is. That said, I'd like to see self-reporting improved. For example if you commit a foot fault, nobody else notices and seconds, then you can still call it on yourself and add a stroke penalty. And only if a cardmate explicitly objects will that stroke penalty not apply. I think this could have helped Paige Pierce last year when she arguable had a foot fault, but nobody seconded it, and that put a lot of stress on the card in how to deal with it.
I also prefer the old rule… the fact that we’re making this new rule proves we suck at the vulnerability trust level on which we think of ourselves being. PDGA helping us communicate like adults. Shout out
Make it a 3 strike rule. 3rd time you foot fault, it's a stroke every time after that. This will make players more willing to call the first violation without feeling like they are screwing over their card mate. It's a simple warning. Second time is the same deal. "Dude...get your shit together or it's gonna be a stroke." 3rd time, stroke. It's always a re-throw, no matter what.
It shouldn't be players calling it then. Imagine coming down to wire at USDGC, 2 players tied and they have the ability to add a stroke to their opponent? Not a good idea. If this is going to be implemented there needs to be an official walking w every card.
With this rule you could just walk from the tee to the basket, then drop it in and take a two :D. Since you threw one shot and then got the foot fault penalty so you take a two.
😂😂
I honestly like the idea of it happening at the end of the round so it doesn't mess up the round vibe. There could also be a flagrant for anything over three feet which could be a tournament disqualifier for all three agreeing. Just throwing that out there.
Just add a flagrant for over three feet for all three card mates players agreeing. Round disqualifier. You don't even have to say anything, it's just on your scorecard. If it results in an actual disqualification you would then have to give a 'deposition' describing what happened so it matches up. Just throwing out ideas...
@@logant9437 I don’t know man, that would feel like getting stabbed in the back lol
Sure, if the rule existed in a vacuum... Good thing it doesn't.
Competition Manual for Disc Golf Events; section 3
3.03 Player misconduct
3.03A. All players must adhere to a professional standard of sporting ethics, courtesy, and integrity while participating in a PDGA-sanctioned event and when commenting to the media. Conduct that violates this standard is subject to courtesy violations called by players (see 812, Courtesy), penalties issued by the Tournament Director, and any further disciplinary action deemed appropriate by the PDGA.
3.03C. The following actions also violate the above standard. Players who commit one or more of these violations will not receive a warning, and will be immediately disqualified by the Tournament Director:
1. Cheating: a willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play.
I think there should be a foot fault for mispositioned foot to gain an advantage which is an automatic stroke, and slipping into a disc should be a warning and free rethrow first time, and stroke after second attempt. Slipping into disc rule restarts at each new lie.
Definitley better then current call. Because you're not gaining any advantage by slipping onto a disc. The only time I can see it as an advantage is trying to get around a crazy scramble shot from a stand still. That when the piece of paper placement makes the most sense
I think if the foot fault is egregious or makes a shot easier then it would've been from the proper spot then call it. But if you're 6" off or step on your disc that's so pointless to call IMO
The sport is getting so huge, and tournaments are being played for some serious outcomes. People should call more foot faults in any major, if they are competing for 1st. Especially in the elite group of players. It's not being the bad guy, it's about competition now
That's why they need more spotters on every hole and designated rules officials with every card. These players are playing for significant money. Overall though, everyone needs to just accept that there will be significant growing pains as the sport reaches more and more people. It will take time for the tour to catch up to the amount of revenue and viewership it's generating. I'd expect the next 10 years especially to have a lot of wishy-washy calls and unpopular rule changes, etc. but I have faith that those things will get ironed out eventually
This
Yeah except this just encourages people to be cunts. We need officials who are trained and paid to make these rulings. Take some of paul's mclaren money and put it into paid officiating and see how quick this junk stops. We have plenty of money in this sport. We just wanna waste it on dumb shit.
Players just need to be accountable for themselves and have some integrity.
you still have to call it on the spot you don't wait until the end of the hole and just ambush the player with for example: "you footfaulted on your approach". This language is in the "enforcement" section of the rules: "A call must be made promptly to be enforceable (except for misplays)". The only difference is that you better be paying attention right away and there is no way to try to "sneak" in what is effectively a relocation of your lie by intentionally footfaulting and hoping noone catches it. Kindof funny.. which situation are they talking about?? "letting them play through" before calling it would make the call invalid, thats not "promptly". Also a "spotter" is merely an advisor who is there to facilitate the flow of the game.
Foot fault rule: replay the shot, faulted stroke counts as stroke. I would add video evidence shown. A designated caddy? A tournament staff volunteer or employee on every card who's job is to watch for infractions? Potential hostilities toward the official? Certainly. All players love an ump or ref who makes a call in their favor, and hates them if they make one against. Video proof or it gets overlooked. Would add time to each round, especially if there are multiple infractions or combative participants. The problems with too much money involved in a game. Income at stake is a powerful thing.
Nikko was right, Socki did do a HUGE foot fault, Conrad wasnt a footfault, as much as not maintaining balance.... stepping on your disc isnt a footfault since the disc itself is the foot box... rule should be a warning, then a penalty stroke after the hole after that.... and YES, there SHOULD be video immediately available for disputes... some courtesy should be given if the person is doing a full x-step throw, standing throws and putting should have no tolerance range.
I think it is all stupid. If you stand still then the spot needs to be the size of a piece of paper, but if you are doing a run up then the box behind the disc needs to be a 2’x2’ box.
Picture this. You get to the last hole and someone is tied. First guy throws and is pretty far out and probably will not take a birdie. Next guy runs like James Conrad and keeps going to the basket and throws it in. New rule is a footfault so he doesn’t have to rethrow and gets a stroke penalty and wins the tournament!
How can I apply for an opportunity to Throw with a Pro? I need a Mentor/Sponsor. I'm 54 US Veteran. I can hit some SIMON LINES.. but, I can't Putt within 5 ft. I Need a Putting Coach!!
Have a official or some sort of volunteer per hole to try and watch for this kind of thing and use it when needed so the players aren't the only ones to call the faults. Some players just don't wanna call them and some players call them mote than most
Keep the game fast paced. If they intentionally do it’s two extra strokes. Don’t call the rest
A big fault you missed (everyone missed) was 2022 worlds hole 17 after mcbeth made the 80 footer arron missed his putt and then picked up his disc before placing mini down....you won't see it on jomez it's cut out... the only way to see it is watch the live version...it's plain as day
As you shouldnt because its a tap in and literally doesnt matter.
I feel most foot faults (called or not) come from a 2nd or 3rd shot and doing a run up in the fairway. its nice to see these guys bomb another 400+ ft from the fairway.. but maybe standing only shots would cut this problem out completely.
I equate a run up on the tee, to teeing up your golf ball in real golf. They cant tee up in the fairway.. maybe we should drop the run up in the fairway?
For putts.. It should be called on them before they actually putt, no penalty, correct the mistake. Seeing a foot fault and waiting till they putt before you call it, is flat out malicious. It would encourage more to pay attention. Or at least do away with the people trying to use it to gain strokes on their card.
You could just copy Golf about officiating all the shots. You could have an official accompanying and observing the group shot by shot also with the danger of being labeled as a cheater you would call your self out if there is doubt in your head. That is the definition of "etiquette" (regardless of reasoning) Or just a person filming every shot with any kind of camera. Even a cheap 300$ smartphone is capable of capturing enough details nowadays. If there is a moment of disagreement you could just check the video with the group and decide.
Are Spotters Paid to Spot?? I am So down to Spot for anyone!! Especially if I can get some Spotlight Time! Some Slomez Time!!
You want Jomez to spot you some air time?
More money involved now and footfaults and all rules should be applied more and players need not to worry about making someone mad and think about there game and money it's a job, footfaults and time should be automatic stroke and redo no warnings you know the rules in ball golf theres no warning for accidentally moving ball by bumping it nor warning for grounding club in hazard
Might be helpful if you explained the rule for those who are out of the loop. Im a 850 rated player and i have no idea what yall are talking about
802.07 Stance
A. If the lie has been marked by a marker disc, then when the disc is released, the player must:
Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the lie; and,
Have no supporting point closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc; and,
Have all supporting points in-bounds.
C. A player who violates 802.07.A or 802.07.B has committed a stance violation and receives one penalty throw.
A stance violation is often called a "foot fault".
Few years ago the penalty (i.e. 802.07.C) was a warning and a rethrow, not an immediate score penalty.
If making a putt (806.01.A (within 10m of the basket, aka "inside the circle")), there's also an additional rule:
806.01.B. After having released a putt, the player must demonstrate full control of balance behind the marker disc before advancing toward the target. A player who fails to do so has committed a stance violation and receives one penalty throw.
This is sometimes called a "falling putt". That too used to be a warning and rethrow, not an immediate score penalty.
@abcdef5112 ahhhhhh. So they are talking about stepping on or after the mini/marker. Thank you sir. Currently i mostly throw standstill if im not on the tee so havent needed to know this yet. Thank you for taking the time to clarify
I have serious questions about someone whos 850 rated and is unaware of what the hell a foot fault is.
@chrisbruchak4519 you're not going to be on my card in the near future so safe to say it doesnt concern you
@@InbredJed82060 sounds like cap 🤷 🧢
Standstills only on all fairway shots! Problem solved!😅
Abolish the foot fault rule.
If it is not a ridiculous foul what's the point? That 6 inches to the left allowed him to park it. ...hardly
Self regulating honour System, and course officials to watch over notorious people/repeat offenders.
Just copy Golf, it's been around for long enough.
Yes, this shouldn't be too hard or too complicated.
I 2nd this. Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel?
I think the best way to call it, would be to confirm with another card mate first. If they second it, than you can approach. That way, you don’t seem like as much of a jerk.
@@playdiscgolf1546 Buddies will often not call buddies though. It is too easy to say, oh I didn't see it. Then when you have people that you don't like, it is easy to get a 2nd. It is all a big sketchy to me. I think we need officials on the lead and chase to initiate calls.
A recipe for conspiracy.
The sport just needs officials if it wants to be taken more seriously
Totally officials never make mistakes at sporting events. 🙄 The logistics of officials isn't reasonable and only provides minor improvements at best.
@@dougs8196 okay. But the players call nothing. So either there are NO rules or at least SOMETIMES someone will get called for breaking a rule
Why have the 8.5 x 11 rule anyway? Make the stance area behind the marker bigger, like 2' x 2' behind the marker to each side outside of circle two. One foot difference on a 100' throw is not going to make a difference. Then, there isn't the issue of did I get onto the damn piece of paper. No one cares to call it anyway.
In woods golf, 1 foot can be massive
@@playdiscgolf1546 I'll give you one foot either way at Idlewild all day.
Can we just get the current rules makers OUT of power already and get players IN the conversations on things that affect them? This "old guard going nucking futs" ever winter is bringing so many weird changes in every single year. Enough is enough.
Just put a camera guy and judge right on the feet. They can decide if there is a foot fault or not.
there are huge advantages to these small liberties that are being taken
Ricky’s was the most egregious.
Everyone is wanting to grow the sport. But you cannot grow it if you are asking players to self govern. You need a judge on each and every hole. The footfalls and time rule are 2 of the biggest. But I have also seen players.break other rules. You need judges to call them out and set penalties .
If it's implemented? It's been implemented for several years.
sneaky footfault rules would be the worst, for sure would be used nefariously. like holding that shit back till the end when other cardmates might not remember, and its just 2 dickheads colluding. can't see how that isn't obvious
Let’s be real, if your crying about foot faults like the ones in this video, your not good and need to practice more and not worry about 5 inches.
This doesnt matter at higher levels but Ive almost gotten physical with someone over this rule. Two people Im not a fan of got carded with me and started calling and seconding "foot faults" that point blank werent foot faults. Completely destroyed my round and my tournament as a result. Had to literally talk to the TD and have the two other people from the card back me up. They were hesitant until the 3rd blatantly obvious attempt at screwing me. Ended up dnf'ing in order to keep my rating from getting tanked due to two fuckin dick heads.
this is the reason I hate nikko.
The rules are the rules, except when he breaks them.
Yet they let them tee off from side of tee pad
Run ups on teepads only. 🤐
I like if you get 1 warning. And if you do it again it's a stroke.
30 second clock is so dumb. Most of the time, players don’t remotely take 30 seconds. If they take longer on one or two shots a round, that’ll make no difference.
Ohhh my i had a total douscher on my tournament card the other day. He literally stood next to you looking diligently at his watch. I literally hate that rule. Especially here in Colorado where the air is thin and there are many mountains. Need time to catch your breath
You gotta have rules though… it’s a professional sport…
@@JBDiscGolf agreed. The idea of a courtesy violation is also “courtesy”. If my approach to my lie is consistently 15 seconds or so, my card shouldn’t have an issue if I have to survey a lie that’s buried in a tree, it shouldn’t be a problem. The rules were made for those abusing them.
@@InbredJed82060 that person lacks confidence and it shows.
Disc golf is a dirty sport. Cheating...foot faults...are rampant where I live. In every event when i hear someones scores, i now wonder...did they really?
Be nice if you actually explained the new rule? No clue wtf you are even talking about lol
I think u should get a full meter from behind your lie thered be a lot less faults
Nobody likes Nikko
That one he called on Ricky was a legit foot fault. Ken Climo even defended that call in a recent interview he did with Brodie Smith. And that one that’s called on Nikko is ridiculous in my opinion. That side view of his stance looked fine to me. I’m no pro but that just seemed petty.
There needs to be more call outs on foot faults. I watch an unhealthy amount of coverage and see it all the time. Not just with fairway run up shots, but with step putts A LOT. You can slow down the YT vid to 1/4 speed and see these guys landing their step with the disc still in contact with their hand... Of course nobody wants to call it for fear of ruining the vibes on the card for the rest of the round (or others to come), but this sport is growing and needs to be tighter. A ball golfer doesn't just casually move their ball before they hit it. Well, not having your foot in the appropriate place is the same deal. It's one of the fundamental core rules of the game. The more lax we all get with it, the less seriously the game is taken and the integrity of the game is diminished. Additionally, if the players are to "govern" their own card, then they need to do a better job of all watching each other's shots at all times. When 1 player calls a fault and can't get a 2nd because the others weren't paying close attention...c'mon🤦♂Better yet, just call it on yourself. These guys know when they foot fault usually. It's going to be on camera, so just own it and take the high road.
✌🌱🧝♂🧙♂
Noone cares about foot faults, except Shultz