That Cues stuff is very underrated by now. Most people don't even know it actually exists. I haven't installed it yet. Because I wasn't sure about compatibility to existing components. Was pleased to hear it's compatible to older HG freewheels.
The greatest thing about this video is that it confirms that I don't need to try CUES because the use case for me can be solved with older tech. Also, it reinforced my decision to stay away from squishy silicon grips. I really appreciate it, Russ. This is why I'm a Patreon. Patron? Subscriber? Whatever, you did great. Thanks!
Likewise. I'm currently running 8 speed 11-28 on my city whip with an old Sora derailleur (42 up front); all I want is 11-34 which I can get with an old XT or XTR mech.
Back in the olden days we used to keep a can of hairspray in the shop for installing and removing rubber hand grips. A few of our regular customers were hospital workers and so we also had a steady supply of hypodermic syringes which we used to inject liberal amounts of liquid hairspray underneath the rubber grips for quick and easy removal. To this day I still use this method at home. Hairspray also works great on other tasks such as taking apart my wife's hairbrush with the red rubber pad cushion and black plastic handle. Her brush is designed to be taken apart for thorough cleaning. Sliding the rubber pad back onto the plastic handle is tough without rubbing alcohol or hairspray.
I learned that with the Connex links, they disconnect vertically, not horizontally. Grab on each side of the link and pivot it to vertical, and it'll slide right apart. Just reverse for reassembling, start vertical and let it slide the 90 degrees into horizontal. They're amazing.
Yes, really important! Connex links are totally different from other quick links. They have to be angled manually (into a Z-shape). Any use of force or tools can DESTROY them!
Guess i'll have to check them out! They sound like a great adition to my DH bike since with the chain guide and tension pulley it's basically impossible to pull the chain off of the chainring.
As Russ mentioned, this was common in the late 80s and I had a similar setup on a Bianchi with Suntour downtube shifters. Friction for the front and indexing for the rear. I strongly dislike modern brifters for the front derailleur and feel like I am constantly playing with the inline adjuster to stop the chain rubbing!
Great to see you wrenching on a bike again and trying weird stuff. I have the opposite set up of clicky and friction due to having an old freewheel out back and Claris brifters (I find them comfortable). A bar end works well for now. Thanks for trying what many others might have with zip ties. Cool visit to the local bike shop and speaking Spanish. Well done.
Great hack for removing silicone grips is using a floor pump with the a pump needle ball thingy for inflating basketballs, spray a little bit of alcohol and pump away, ideally someone else pumps but its doable solo.
Another vote for isopropyl alcohol. I've also had good luck with alcohol based hand sanitizer gel . Chopsticks are handy to work under the grips to create a gap for squirting in the gel. My secret power though is a syringe with a long blunt needle, which glides nicely under the grip while slowly injecting the gel. Even works with ESI Extra Chunky XXL grips.
Im a retired mechanic I worked on all kind of vehicles including motorcycles and some bicycles. On the grips I know you got done it already but for those doing it the future The zip tie trick does work but a little lube or Vaseline helps it slide in better, if nothing else a little butter from the refrigerator or even olive oil if that is all you got. WD 40 works too but on those very nice grips I would stick to friendlier lubes, To get those fluids inside the grip a syringe with a hose attached is very handy the kind used to service and adjust hydraulic forks and shocks works very well. To set the quick line apply the rear brake and gently turn the pedals.
I've been looking up what friction shifters are available in my country (Canada) and SunRace sells the SLM96 in the Friction Front/Index Rear configuration. Seems like a perfect "best of both worlds" scenario for me, I wouldn't mind friction in the front, but I _do_ mind gear hunting in the rear, lol!
@@BirdmanDeuce26 I have those shifters front + rear as friction on a 2x9 drivetrain, they are great and they have a ratchet as well. At first when I replaced my old clunky GripShift's with those shifters as friction/index combo but replaced the index to a friction as well after a few month because I like the friction with ratchet more than the index.
@@themoodyteam There are pure friction shifter and there are those with ratchet like UNO Silver Dia-Compe SunRace SLM96's and old SunTour. In the upshift direction it's a lighter action with ratchet and only downshift has a stiffer friction mode. Some consider this the gold standard of friction shifter. Maybe if you have a chance try it out. It's probably not for everyone but I love it, so apparently Russ and the folks from Rivendell and Velo-Orange as well.
Russ, please, please, please! Read the manual for the Connex quicklinks. They have to be angled manually (into a Z-shape). Any use of force or tools can DESTROY them! They are totally different from other quicklinks. You can use a chain gauge or a piece of coat hanger wire to hold the ends of the chain close together while assembling the link by hand. It especially helps if there is a lot of tension on the chain, and if the chain is slippery. Also keep in mind that the “banana shape” of the quicklink has to follow the curvature of the cassette/chainrings. You did the latter right. 😊
@@RatFink5912 Forgive me. I am not a native speaker and thus don't understand any non-dictionary meanings of words. Such as when Americans think others are rude when someone calls them “sir” 😊 I only wanted to contribute with what I find is relevant knowledge given the contents of the video. It would be a shame if people get Connex links only to destroy them because of a misunderstanding that turned into misinformation. 😊
That's why I'm not even trying to do this kind of work on my bike, between the tools and the tips needed, you are either losing time, or worse, degrading your gear! That said I remember replacing my chain, and it's still running fine after many years, so I suppose I read the notice carefully.
Hi there. You should definitely try your setup with a linkglide-specific chain. The shifting under load is so much smoother! I work in a bikeshop that specialized in ebikes and linkglide is really great!
Hmmm that's good to know. I have an a mid-drive 9 spd ebike that shifts great to larger sprokets but feels kinda clunky going to smaller sprokets, and its hard not to shift under load since the motor likes to dump 250W into the drivetrain
Derailer rubbing issues are really helped by moving the derailer cage as close to the chainring as possible. The angle of the chain has far less effect when it's so close. It should just barely miss the teeth of the large chainring. I've been known to bend mine a fair bit when there's no other way to adjust it.
Looks like a total overkill to me, but that's perfectly fine. I still have a 30 years old, cheap RSX, 25 years on my bike, original cassette! Of course I haven't been riding dozens of kilometers every day all this time...
For the grips, shove a spoke or even a chopstick not even reaching the middle of the grip, then put a few drops of alcohol in the gap it creates and they’ll slide off. I do this all the time.
I intensely dislike indexed front shifting. It's a constant click-trim click-click-trim click-click-trim-click pain in the butt. Friction up front is the only thing that makes sense. I love the shifting mullett.
Would you happen to have any reasonably priced ideas for friction up front with drop bars? I'd really want to keep the integrated brake / shifter for the rear end, so does this leave me any other options besides throwing a bar end shifter on the left side?
I use a chopstick and rubbing alcohol to remove grips. Jam chopstick in there and spray some alcohol/hand sanitizer works too. Once you get the alcohol in there you can twist the chopstick around the inside of the grip covering the majority of the surface. Should come off easy after that.
I was thinking about doing the same on my bike, but it has waay bigger problems than shifting, so this setup is gonna wait for a while. I'm glad tho that someone way more in the field did this and I'm confirmed as not as stupid as I usually am when it comes to upgrades. Thanks!
I used a Surly corner bar and went friction on my breezer radar expert 2x and it is very true that the there is soooo much more range and my chain does not rub at all. Friction works amazing. Probably gonna be friction for all my bikes going forward. Cheers!
Just for giggles, I used a pair of simplex retro friction levers (originally designed for 6 speed don’t forget!) on a Shimano 9 speed HG cassette and the levers performed fantastically! I’d even go as far to say modern HG cassettes are what friction levers have been waiting for!🤪👍
I had a circa 2000 SRAM ESP 9.0 Gripshift that came friction front shifter in high school. I really liked it and had been thinking of tracking one down for my current MTB. This clinches it!
IPA works great to remove grips. Shove a small flat head screwdriver under it and make some space and give it a few shoots of ipa, do this on several spots and it will slide of easy. I did this my first time just last week.
Connex Links are awesome. Using them with cheap SRAM chains (I'm still running 8 speeds) and hot wax. Way more durable than the SRAM ones which may even fail on the first mount.
I will get some of those Connex now available in gold color it makes it easier for me to spot the link even w/o reading glasses, the KMC's work fine but why not.
Makes a lot of sense. I've been thinking of doing this with my old triple chainring bike. I've always found it hard to get the indexing right with a triple chainset, but using a friction shifter in the front would get rid of that problem.
Also you can use chainrings w/o any ramps or what ever it works allways doing it for ever with GripShift and their microindex which worked similar flawless and with friction shifter.
Its a great idea using a friction shifter for the front deraleur - back in the day when we all used friction shifters it was just second nature to constantly adjust the lever so there was no noise coming from either deraleur. A 3X would be idea for friction shifting as they are so hard to get right with an indexed shifter
Before the invention of clamp on grips, I found rubbing alcohol works great for sliding grips on and off. When the alcohol dries the grip will stay tight on the bar.
Also, I have the CUES 9speed rear derailleur which is spect for a max 36 tooth cassette by Shimano, but I was able to put a 9 speed 11-41 cassette on there, not even needed to add a bit a chains. Big gap but worked by adjusting the B screw
Love the Video, I always run this mullet set up, for all the reasons you’ve said. The micro thumby is sweet too cause it allows you to go friction if needed
I Love my mullet that came with my 2017 Kona Sutra Touring Bike, 3x front 9speed in rear! Couldn't agree more with you about fine tuning the front derailleur! Don't appreciate others because no way to fine tune chain path!
I've done this before, its awesome. I've gone further than this by using a friction shifter on a shadow plus ten speed rear derailleur, allowing me to have a clutch on an 8 or 9 speed cassette!
Like you said friction for the FD makes a lot of sense. I’m liking the newer Shimano stuff like this. I got the Shimano Zee RD-M640 10 speed real derailleur and shifter unit for a VO Neutrino 1x build and was surprised by its small size but ability to shift larger rings. My fav all time RD is the older M310 the one with the oversized pulley wheel and only $30.
you are right about the front friction shifter is needed. I wouldnt be suprised if electronic adjusts front m ech based on rear mech position. instantly agreed outloud with you when you said that in the video thank you Russ.
I like mullet as well, just changed from 11s road cassette 11-34 to an MTB cassette 11-42. Just adjusting B-screw, that's all. The reason why it works without changing the derailleur (due to limited gear teeth capacity) is thanks to electronic sync shifting which prohibits cross chaining and therefore limits the theoretical capacity (which would be too big for the derailleur) to a much smaller usable teeth capacity.
'91 Cannondale 3.0 road set up as 2 x 10 downtube friction(stock 600 7s lever). 50/34 with XT RD M8000 "clutch on"(reverse cable pinch) 11-39 cues cassette. That's 44 tooth wrap but with a max of 47 so I have the option of swapping to 52/36 with a tooth to spare.
Russdawg. I use a cap full or two of water under the grips after creating some space with zip ties or what have you then wiggle those babies right off. Same for reinstall.
My first bike (which I still have!) had this setup. One hundred percent agree: front should be friction. I can shift it quickly by feel, and it can be trimmed on the fly. My more modern Ultegra indexed front does not feel like an upgrade to me. Guess I've entered my retrogrouch years!
To remove grips I use WD40. Just insert the straw slowly while spraying just a bit at a time . Work the grip like a throttle with your other hand while inserting the straw and spraying. Once off, clean up the inside of grip with alcohol. And use generous amount of alcohol to install.
for grip removal: with the zip tie get a drop of water (even better is rubbing alcohol) and massage it rotating the grip partially. the water will work it way along the grip until you can pull it straight off. on installation its the same: wet the silicone grip, install it, water will evaporate over the next couple od hours and you are good to go.
I use water to lube the grips. Then I use a long slender screwdriver (lubed with water too) to make a space for the water. Twist the screwdriver around to get water on all sides. Pull off. I've also used alcohol, but the water works as well, and is cheaper! Use a long needled syringe to squirt watrer under the grips, or just pour a little in there.
Work the end of a small flat bladed screwdriver under the end of the grip and use a spray bottle to squirt isopropyl alcohol in the gap that's created between the grip and the bar. Work the screwdriver in further, spray more alcohol, then give the grip a twist. It will come right off, quite easily.
I think you can sort of "trim" your front shift on certain indexed front shifters by just pushing a little on the lever (not shifting to the next ring). I guess that doesn't help if the chain is rubbing on the right side of the cage.
Campy used to, or maybe still does, use almost friction for their front brifter. They were similar to ratchet action, so you had very fine adjustment of front derailleur motion, which worked for both doubles and triples. Toward the end of the '00s, they moved away from that, starting with their lower tiers of groupsets in hopes to compete with the way more affordable Sram and lower end Shimano groups.
checked Shimano exploded view, just the cage has a different reference between the 10s and 11s, so yes not technically an 10s and 11s but just a different cage length version.
On my LHT I have friction on the down tube for the front triple and an older ultegra 9spd brifter for the rear. The friction allows for rubless front shifting.
I’m set up similar with a Microshift Advent and bar end shifter driving an XT fd on a 3x crankset. Sizing the chain is a little tricky to get full range. But you get a real bail out gear.
Gevanalle cyclo-cross shifters are allways friction front, indexed rear. Like mine a lot. Bought them after watching a Cave of Bad Ideas a few years ago. Disfruta Espana Russ
To remove slip-on grips I always slide in a small flat-head screwdriver and spay in some cleaner. Work the screwdriver around the grip and it pops right off. Been doing this hack decades
I'm thinking of using cues indexed on the rear and friction front for my next build. Cues 11 - 45 on the back and 22 - 36 on the front with 29 x 2.6 tyre. Roughly 15 - 100 gear inches and 669% range which is awesome. For really big tyre bikes that bike cassette at the back is great. It's totally within spec.
I put the bike on its side and drip rubbing alcohol between the grips and bar and usually able to remove that way. Sometimes you need to add additional alcohol as you slide it off.
this is not only what shimano does not want you to know, you can extend life of rings by reshaping its teeth, no new chain skipping on old cassette or front rings
Glad to hear you using your Spanish. You’ll learn it faster the more you use it. Have you considered getting a job in the cycling industry? On our last visit, our bike tour guide spoke seven languages!
I am sure someone had already suggested rubbing alcohol for grips removal and installation, look up for etil alcohol or isopropil alcohol in a pharmacy or cosmetics store. Then you use ziptie to create some space and pour a little bit of alcohol, it will come of easily. The alchohol will evaporate and will not cause rusting.
I'm running a similar setup with XT in the back (11-40 11 spd) and an old road triple in the front, with the big ring locked to make it a wide range double (currently 42-30). I chose downtube shifting for the front, probably gonna swap it for thumb friction cuz reaching for the shifter in the middle of city trafic when using pogies is quite hectic, but it works great otherwise.
I know e-bikes are a big part of the motivation, but really interested in CUES, with it's focus on durability and compatibility (within itself, anyway, thinking about the uniform cable pull for example), when other groupsets have gotten so fragile and specific ("optimised")...
@@DR_1_1 Maybe fragile is the wrong word, but with Hyperglide chains, the more speeds on the cassette, the narrower the chain, and because of that, the quicker they wear out! That's why a 6 to 10 speed chain should be replaced at 0.75% wear, but an 11+ speed one should be replaced at just 0.5% (and they're more expensive!). The groupset at the highest end like Dura-Ace are made with lightness in mind, so they're also not the strongest for that reason. Not a cause to worry if they're well looked after, but if you're touring a long distance with little maintenance on the road, an 8-speed Sora will be a lot more robust than a 12-speed Ultegra, say.
@@pphaneuf Interesting, I have an old RSX (the cheapest Shimano system then, yet after 25 years on my bike, it's still running well, derailleur, shifter and rim brakes! of course I had to change cables since then, also grease becomes solid and it's hard to clean the mechanism of the levers, but only rare adjustments were necessary.) That said I just had a look at the gears and their teeth today, and it's not pretty... I think I'm only on my 2nd chain on this system, 3 at most - the previous broke. Also the bottom bracket is becoming a bit lose, maybe the ball bearings... I'm now considering a "cyclotourism" bike sold with Microshift 10V, I'd like to ask instead for a replacement with Shimano 105 (11V? standard chain I suppose), or ideally with GRX (10V) but I don't think they do the GRX on this < 1000 euro bike... , do you have any recommendation at this level? Also I'm tempted to ask for rim brakes instead of the hydro+cable disk brakes, which sound like a lot of a trouble to maintain (I have no experience at all with hydraulic)?
I ordered U6000 1by for my heavy 160KG with me and packs,touring bike😂 the 11-48 cassette on a 32 crank is exactly the sweet spot for me. Its no-ebike,hope its rugged enouth this time,the Alivio works but only for 2 years;) and with this setup it is easy to go 2by;)
First off.... I never gave up on triple cranks, been riding them since the early 1980's and still do....on my touring bikes (my "main" thing), on my mountain bikes, and on my commuter/utility bikes. The only thing I don't use them on is pure road/cyclocross bikes, which I run double cranks on. Second....Also never gave up friction/front/thumbshifters. Kept using my trusty XC-Pro thumbies throughout 7x, and 8x, (at the time when all those fancy indexed thingies came out), and switched to Paul Thumbies for 9x. Again, this was for touring/mtn/commuter. I mostly stayed with thumbshifters on the rear too, though indexed (with the ability to switch to friction when needed). (I do use "standard" road shifters, Campy 10x, on my "forever" road bike). Third....I'm SO pleased that MicroShift is currently making thumbshifters in 9x, 10x, even 11x! these days. Warms my little retro-grouch heart. Fourth....I'm currently completing building my dream touring bike, something I've had in my head for many years, and been actively working on for the last 2 or 3. My drivetrain is spec'd as such: 9 speed, triple crank with 20t/32t/42t chainrings, 11-36 cassette, 9-speed Microshift thumbshifters (on custom mounts I made to fit on drop bars (Salsa Cowbell), and Shimano derailleurs vintage from the "Mega9" era (which can still be found today either NOS or very gently used if you look around enough). With wide-ish 700c tires, this gives me a range of 16.32 to 104.16 gear inches. And yes, on a loaded touring bike I definitely use that 16.32 low gear! Friction front shifter? Of course, why would I use anything else? Indexed rear? Yep (especially if I can do it with a thumbshifter!).
Typo ? Using Sheldon Brown gear calculator 20t x 36t with wide-ish 700-38 tires gives : 15.2 gear-inches. Spinning 20x46 x 700-38 @70 rpm = 5.1mph (For the record @80 rpm = 5.8 mph) Under 70rpm (headwinds, surface with a high rolling resistance...etc) aren’t you better off with hike-a-biking ?
I didn't have a typo but you did ("....20x46 x700....") My tire size is 50mm, so the calculations work as written. As for hike-a-biking...... A - pushing a loaded touring bike (panniers, weight, etc.) ain't no fun. B - This is a touring bike, not a bike-packing rig. Some tours are many months on the bike. I actually tour pretty light compared to most, but I'm still carrying quite a bit more weight than a typical weekend bikepacking trip. And (very) low gears can come in handy. C - I'm often riding off road, including single track, and yes with some steep grades that low gear is absolutely useful then. D - I can and do ride a touring bike on those grades/surfaces, and in that gear. Balance is the key (and it's fun!). E - If I CAN ride a given situation, that is ALWAYS preferable to walking/pushing. More efficient, more fun, more satisfying, and more suave. Heck, I'm bike riding, not hiking!
Front mechs just work better with friction, I can derail and rerail my chain on instinct ahah Got the old grx with a bar end for the front mech and it's the best setup I've found, running 11-45 cues cassette and 43/30 sram crankset I get all the gearing I could want for loaded trips.
Hopefully the drop bar compatible CUES brifters don't suck whenever they get around to launching those. Those will be much more novel considering flat bar people already have loads of great low range options, but drop bar people mechanical people still don't have many options apart from Sword and Ratio'd Sram stuff.
I really like the look of the Cues derailleurs, they just look badass all matte blacked out. They look like they should be on a stealth fighter jet, lol. I eventually want to switch over my SLX groupset to Cues but right now I'm broke lol. I priced it out on Amazon for the cassette, derailleur and shifter and it comes in at almost $280.00 plus I'd have to buy a new chain since the lowest gear is 50T compared to my 42T, and for some reason all the Cues derailleurs on Amazon are direct mount so I'd have to buy one of those Wolftooth Goat links, it makes no sense, nobody uses direct mount derailleurs anymore.
I found a pair of gloves and brute force to be effective with grip install/removal. Compressed air works well, but a pair of gloves was actually a but faster for me.
I'm taking my silicone grips by putting a ZIP tie in, then putting some dish soap in the hole and then squeezing grip to create a movement like a caterpillar 😅
i had to do esi grips rather recently. Easily best solution i found was like 3 chopsticks, wedge under, plus a bottle of soap mixed with water...lots of spray ..give em some back and forth twisting and pulling and came right off....i tried alcohol with this solution and did nearly nothing. My esi grips were on there a long time
Would Stein's hyperhandle cassette tool be a cheaper replacement, while also eliminating the need for a chain whip? Or did the tool you showed do something different/more?
That Cues stuff is very underrated by now. Most people don't even know it actually exists. I haven't installed it yet. Because I wasn't sure about compatibility to existing components. Was pleased to hear it's compatible to older HG freewheels.
The greatest thing about this video is that it confirms that I don't need to try CUES because the use case for me can be solved with older tech. Also, it reinforced my decision to stay away from squishy silicon grips. I really appreciate it, Russ. This is why I'm a Patreon. Patron? Subscriber? Whatever, you did great. Thanks!
Likewise. I'm currently running 8 speed 11-28 on my city whip with an old Sora derailleur (42 up front); all I want is 11-34 which I can get with an old XT or XTR mech.
Back in the olden days we used to keep a can of hairspray in the shop for installing and removing rubber hand grips. A few of our regular customers were hospital workers and so we also had a steady supply of hypodermic syringes which we used to inject liberal amounts of liquid hairspray underneath the rubber grips for quick and easy removal. To this day I still use this method at home. Hairspray also works great on other tasks such as taking apart my wife's hairbrush with the red rubber pad cushion and black plastic handle. Her brush is designed to be taken apart for thorough cleaning. Sliding the rubber pad back onto the plastic handle is tough without rubbing alcohol or hairspray.
I love my early 90’s Deore DX because it can be either friction or index. Triple set up on my Bridgestone. Grant Peterson was the boss!
And it’s probably the sexiest MTB rear derailleur ever made!
Really? I had no idea you could run it friction. Was it the sam with xt and xtr?
@@robertgordon66 As long as the thumb shifter can be switched to friction, it can. STI shifters were only indexing.
I learned that with the Connex links, they disconnect vertically, not horizontally. Grab on each side of the link and pivot it to vertical, and it'll slide right apart. Just reverse for reassembling, start vertical and let it slide the 90 degrees into horizontal. They're amazing.
Yes, really important! Connex links are totally different from other quick links. They have to be angled manually (into a Z-shape). Any use of force or tools can DESTROY them!
Guess i'll have to check them out! They sound like a great adition to my DH bike since with the chain guide and tension pulley it's basically impossible to pull the chain off of the chainring.
As Russ mentioned, this was common in the late 80s and I had a similar setup on a Bianchi with Suntour downtube shifters. Friction for the front and indexing for the rear. I strongly dislike modern brifters for the front derailleur and feel like I am constantly playing with the inline adjuster to stop the chain rubbing!
I like the fact that you are willing to give new set ups a try…it’s interesting to see what works and what nearly works.
Great to see you wrenching on a bike again and trying weird stuff.
I have the opposite set up of clicky and friction due to having an old freewheel out back and Claris brifters (I find them comfortable). A bar end works well for now. Thanks for trying what many others might have with zip ties. Cool visit to the local bike shop and speaking Spanish. Well done.
Friction in the front, party in the back.
Great hack for removing silicone grips is using a floor pump with the a pump needle ball thingy for inflating basketballs, spray a little bit of alcohol and pump away, ideally someone else pumps but its doable solo.
Another vote for isopropyl alcohol. I've also had good luck with alcohol based hand sanitizer gel . Chopsticks are handy to work under the grips to create a gap for squirting in the gel. My secret power though is a syringe with a long blunt needle, which glides nicely under the grip while slowly injecting the gel. Even works with ESI Extra Chunky XXL grips.
Im a retired mechanic I worked on all kind of vehicles including motorcycles and some bicycles.
On the grips I know you got done it already but for those doing it the future
The zip tie trick does work but a little lube or Vaseline helps it slide in better, if nothing else a little butter from the refrigerator or even olive oil if that is all you got.
WD 40 works too but on those very nice grips I would stick to friendlier lubes,
To get those fluids inside the grip a syringe with a hose attached is very handy the kind used to service and adjust hydraulic forks and shocks works very well.
To set the quick line apply the rear brake and gently turn the pedals.
"The front derailleur shifter should be friction only". Amen! Russ gets it, why can't Shimano?
Friction up front and indexing on the rear makes some sense to me, especially with a wide double where the "big" ring does 90% of the work.
I've been looking up what friction shifters are available in my country (Canada) and SunRace sells the SLM96 in the Friction Front/Index Rear configuration. Seems like a perfect "best of both worlds" scenario for me, I wouldn't mind friction in the front, but I _do_ mind gear hunting in the rear, lol!
@@BirdmanDeuce26 I have those shifters front + rear as friction on a 2x9 drivetrain, they are great and they have a ratchet as well. At first when I replaced my old clunky GripShift's with those shifters as friction/index combo but replaced the index to a friction as well after a few month because I like the friction with ratchet more than the index.
‘Some sense’? A lot of sense! 😂
@@brokenspine66humour me here. What does the ratchet mechanism do?
@@themoodyteam There are pure friction shifter and there are those with ratchet like UNO Silver Dia-Compe SunRace SLM96's and old SunTour. In the upshift direction it's a lighter action with ratchet and only downshift has a stiffer friction mode. Some consider this the gold standard of friction shifter. Maybe if you have a chance try it out. It's probably not for everyone but I love it, so apparently Russ and the folks from Rivendell and Velo-Orange as well.
Russ, please, please, please! Read the manual for the Connex quicklinks. They have to be angled manually (into a Z-shape). Any use of force or tools can DESTROY them! They are totally different from other quicklinks.
You can use a chain gauge or a piece of coat hanger wire to hold the ends of the chain close together while assembling the link by hand. It especially helps if there is a lot of tension on the chain, and if the chain is slippery.
Also keep in mind that the “banana shape” of the quicklink has to follow the curvature of the cassette/chainrings. You did the latter right. 😊
i usually drop the chain on the front to put on the connex quicklinks to lose some tension in the system
wow -- the multiple use of "please" really gets your point across--then maybe not
@@RatFink5912 Forgive me. I am not a native speaker and thus don't understand any non-dictionary meanings of words. Such as when Americans think others are rude when someone calls them “sir” 😊
I only wanted to contribute with what I find is relevant knowledge given the contents of the video. It would be a shame if people get Connex links only to destroy them because of a misunderstanding that turned into misinformation. 😊
That's why I'm not even trying to do this kind of work on my bike, between the tools and the tips needed, you are either losing time, or worse, degrading your gear!
That said I remember replacing my chain, and it's still running fine after many years, so I suppose I read the notice carefully.
Hi there. You should definitely try your setup with a linkglide-specific chain. The shifting under load is so much smoother! I work in a bikeshop that specialized in ebikes and linkglide is really great!
Hmmm that's good to know. I have an a mid-drive 9 spd ebike that shifts great to larger sprokets but feels kinda clunky going to smaller sprokets, and its hard not to shift under load since the motor likes to dump 250W into the drivetrain
Derailer rubbing issues are really helped by moving the derailer cage as close to the chainring as possible. The angle of the chain has far less effect when it's so close. It should just barely miss the teeth of the large chainring. I've been known to bend mine a fair bit when there's no other way to adjust it.
Looks good! The combo of friction+clicky is so good.
Looks like a total overkill to me, but that's perfectly fine.
I still have a 30 years old, cheap RSX, 25 years on my bike, original cassette! Of course I haven't been riding dozens of kilometers every day all this time...
For the grips, shove a spoke or even a chopstick not even reaching the middle of the grip, then put a few drops of alcohol in the gap it creates and they’ll slide off. I do this all the time.
I intensely dislike indexed front shifting. It's a constant click-trim click-click-trim click-click-trim-click pain in the butt. Friction up front is the only thing that makes sense. I love the shifting mullett.
Would you happen to have any reasonably priced ideas for friction up front with drop bars? I'd really want to keep the integrated brake / shifter for the rear end, so does this leave me any other options besides throwing a bar end shifter on the left side?
My Sam came with DA bar cons, friction up front and clicky at the back, works like a charm - its almost like Rivendell know what they're doing...
I use a chopstick and rubbing alcohol to remove grips. Jam chopstick in there and spray some alcohol/hand sanitizer works too. Once you get the alcohol in there you can twist the chopstick around the inside of the grip covering the majority of the surface. Should come off easy after that.
Yes! Reminds be of my days as a shop mech in the late 90s/00s. Shifter mullets FTW!
I was thinking about doing the same on my bike, but it has waay bigger problems than shifting, so this setup is gonna wait for a while. I'm glad tho that someone way more in the field did this and I'm confirmed as not as stupid as I usually am when it comes to upgrades. Thanks!
I used a Surly corner bar and went friction on my breezer radar expert 2x and it is very true that the there is soooo much more range and my chain does not rub at all. Friction works amazing. Probably gonna be friction for all my bikes going forward. Cheers!
Just for giggles, I used a pair of simplex retro friction levers (originally designed for 6 speed don’t forget!) on a Shimano 9 speed HG cassette and the levers performed fantastically!
I’d even go as far to say modern HG cassettes are what friction levers have been waiting for!🤪👍
Sliding a flat screwdriver under the grip and spraying some hairspray under it gets the job done. Also for sliding it on.
I had a circa 2000 SRAM ESP 9.0 Gripshift that came friction front shifter in high school. I really liked it and had been thinking of tracking one down for my current MTB. This clinches it!
IPA works great to remove grips. Shove a small flat head screwdriver under it and make some space and give it a few shoots of ipa, do this on several spots and it will slide of easy. I did this my first time just last week.
Thanks Russ! What about "Supple" shop aprons for merch?
Connex Links are awesome. Using them with cheap SRAM chains (I'm still running 8 speeds) and hot wax. Way more durable than the SRAM ones which may even fail on the first mount.
I will get some of those Connex now available in gold color it makes it easier for me to spot the link even w/o reading glasses, the KMC's work fine but why not.
Your hair after the cut when you're trying to remove the grips 😂
I saw that too. Hilarious.
Makes a lot of sense. I've been thinking of doing this with my old triple chainring bike. I've always found it hard to get the indexing right with a triple chainset, but using a friction shifter in the front would get rid of that problem.
Also you can use chainrings w/o any ramps or what ever it works allways doing it for ever with GripShift and their microindex which worked similar flawless and with friction shifter.
Its a great idea using a friction shifter for the front deraleur - back in the day when we all used friction shifters it was just second nature to constantly adjust the lever so there was no noise coming from either deraleur. A 3X would be idea for friction shifting as they are so hard to get right with an indexed shifter
Grips: 1) rolll off like a johhny. 2) water or washing liquid and screwdriver works well.
Hairspray sprayed In between grip and bar works great pry up with zip tie screwdriver .thjust be quick as will stick the grip on
My Fuji road bike has friction on the front and indexed on the rear, with downtube shifters, all made in 2017. This shifting combo is truly excellent.
Very good aproach!
By the way, I use alcohol to remove the handles! It works like a charm
Before the invention of clamp on grips, I found rubbing alcohol works great for sliding grips on and off. When the alcohol dries the grip will stay tight on the bar.
Glad to see you are settling into your new home and speaking like a native!
Also, I have the CUES 9speed rear derailleur which is spect for a max 36 tooth cassette by Shimano, but I was able to put a 9 speed 11-41 cassette on there, not even needed to add a bit a chains. Big gap but worked by adjusting the B screw
Love the Video, I always run this mullet set up, for all the reasons you’ve said. The micro thumby is sweet too cause it allows you to go friction if needed
I Love my mullet that came with my 2017 Kona Sutra Touring Bike, 3x front 9speed in rear! Couldn't agree more with you about fine tuning the front derailleur! Don't appreciate others because no way to fine tune chain path!
Bar end shifters, friction front, indexed rear that is.
I've done this before, its awesome. I've gone further than this by using a friction shifter on a shadow plus ten speed rear derailleur, allowing me to have a clutch on an 8 or 9 speed cassette!
I'd love to have a setup like this on my daily "mtb". Best of both worlds.
Like you said friction for the FD makes a lot of sense. I’m liking the newer Shimano stuff like this. I got the Shimano Zee RD-M640 10 speed real derailleur and shifter unit for a VO Neutrino 1x build and was surprised by its small size but ability to shift larger rings. My fav all time RD is the older M310 the one with the oversized pulley wheel and only $30.
you are right about the front friction shifter is needed. I wouldnt be suprised if electronic adjusts front m ech based on rear mech position.
instantly agreed outloud with you when you said that in the video
thank you Russ.
I think this is the only benefit I have heard about electronic shifting haha
I like mullet as well, just changed from 11s road cassette 11-34 to an MTB cassette 11-42. Just adjusting B-screw, that's all. The reason why it works without changing the derailleur (due to limited gear teeth capacity) is thanks to electronic sync shifting which prohibits cross chaining and therefore limits the theoretical capacity (which would be too big for the derailleur) to a much smaller usable teeth capacity.
'91 Cannondale 3.0 road set up as 2 x 10 downtube friction(stock 600 7s lever). 50/34 with XT RD M8000 "clutch on"(reverse cable pinch) 11-39 cues cassette. That's 44 tooth wrap but with a max of 47 so I have the option of swapping to 52/36 with a tooth to spare.
Friction shifting saves the front derailleur.
Russdawg. I use a cap full or two of water under the grips after creating some space with zip ties or what have you then wiggle those babies right off. Same for reinstall.
My first bike (which I still have!) had this setup. One hundred percent agree: front should be friction. I can shift it quickly by feel, and it can be trimmed on the fly. My more modern Ultegra indexed front does not feel like an upgrade to me. Guess I've entered my retrogrouch years!
To remove grips I use WD40. Just insert the straw slowly while spraying just a bit at a time . Work the grip like a throttle with your other hand while inserting the straw and spraying. Once off, clean up the inside of grip with alcohol. And use generous amount of alcohol to install.
11-39 I'm so jealous! I just bought an old road bike with a 12-25 cassette. No hills for me.
for grip removal: with the zip tie get a drop of water (even better is rubbing alcohol) and massage it rotating the grip partially. the water will work it way along the grip until you can pull it straight off.
on installation its the same: wet the silicone grip, install it, water will evaporate over the next couple od hours and you are good to go.
I use water to lube the grips. Then I use a long slender screwdriver (lubed with water too) to make a space for the water. Twist the screwdriver around to get water on all sides. Pull off. I've also used alcohol, but the water works as well, and is cheaper! Use a long needled syringe to squirt watrer under the grips, or just pour a little in there.
I recently went full friction shifting and shifting the front derailleur has never been easier. I wish I did this sooner.
Work the end of a small flat bladed screwdriver under the end of the grip and use a spray bottle to squirt isopropyl alcohol in the gap that's created between the grip and the bar. Work the screwdriver in further, spray more alcohol, then give the grip a twist. It will come right off, quite easily.
I think you can sort of "trim" your front shift on certain indexed front shifters by just pushing a little on the lever (not shifting to the next ring). I guess that doesn't help if the chain is rubbing on the right side of the cage.
Campy used to, or maybe still does, use almost friction for their front brifter. They were similar to ratchet action, so you had very fine adjustment of front derailleur motion, which worked for both doubles and triples. Toward the end of the '00s, they moved away from that, starting with their lower tiers of groupsets in hopes to compete with the way more affordable Sram and lower end Shimano groups.
Not anymore unfortunately, which means that the campagnolo triple compatibility was lost when they went to 11 speed.
So happy that the cave of bad ideas is back. I love this shit!
checked Shimano exploded view, just the cage has a different reference between the 10s and 11s, so yes not technically an 10s and 11s but just a different cage length version.
On my LHT I have friction on the down tube for the front triple and an older ultegra 9spd brifter for the rear. The friction allows for rubless front shifting.
I’m set up similar with a Microshift Advent and bar end shifter driving an XT fd on a 3x crankset. Sizing the chain is a little tricky to get full range. But you get a real bail out gear.
Gevanalle cyclo-cross shifters are allways friction front, indexed rear. Like mine a lot. Bought them after watching a Cave of Bad Ideas a few years ago. Disfruta Espana Russ
To remove slip-on grips I always slide in a small flat-head screwdriver and spay in some cleaner. Work the screwdriver around the grip and it pops right off. Been doing this hack decades
Btw to remove grips easily just spray WD40 or isopropanol alcohol under the grip with the long attachment, it works everytime :)
Hi.
Love your videos.
I have the same grips on my bike and I use neutral vinegar to slide them on and off. It works perfect. And it will evaporate.
I'm thinking of using cues indexed on the rear and friction front for my next build.
Cues 11 - 45 on the back and 22 - 36 on the front with 29 x 2.6 tyre. Roughly 15 - 100 gear inches and 669% range which is awesome.
For really big tyre bikes that bike cassette at the back is great. It's totally within spec.
I put the bike on its side and drip rubbing alcohol between the grips and bar and usually able to remove that way. Sometimes you need to add additional alcohol as you slide it off.
this is not only what shimano does not want you to know, you can extend life of rings by reshaping its teeth, no new chain skipping on old cassette or front rings
Glad to hear you using your Spanish. You’ll learn it faster the more you use it. Have you considered getting a job in the cycling industry? On our last visit, our bike tour guide spoke seven languages!
I am sure someone had already suggested rubbing alcohol for grips removal and installation, look up for etil alcohol or isopropil alcohol in a pharmacy or cosmetics store. Then you use ziptie to create some space and pour a little bit of alcohol, it will come of easily. The alchohol will evaporate and will not cause rusting.
I'm running a similar setup with XT in the back (11-40 11 spd) and an old road triple in the front, with the big ring locked to make it a wide range double (currently 42-30). I chose downtube shifting for the front, probably gonna swap it for thumb friction cuz reaching for the shifter in the middle of city trafic when using pogies is quite hectic, but it works great otherwise.
I know e-bikes are a big part of the motivation, but really interested in CUES, with it's focus on durability and compatibility (within itself, anyway, thinking about the uniform cable pull for example), when other groupsets have gotten so fragile and specific ("optimised")...
Which groups were you thinking of when you say "fragile", I'll have to replace my bike soon.
@@DR_1_1 Maybe fragile is the wrong word, but with Hyperglide chains, the more speeds on the cassette, the narrower the chain, and because of that, the quicker they wear out! That's why a 6 to 10 speed chain should be replaced at 0.75% wear, but an 11+ speed one should be replaced at just 0.5% (and they're more expensive!).
The groupset at the highest end like Dura-Ace are made with lightness in mind, so they're also not the strongest for that reason. Not a cause to worry if they're well looked after, but if you're touring a long distance with little maintenance on the road, an 8-speed Sora will be a lot more robust than a 12-speed Ultegra, say.
@@pphaneuf Interesting, I have an old RSX (the cheapest Shimano system then, yet after 25 years on my bike, it's still running well, derailleur, shifter and rim brakes! of course I had to change cables since then, also grease becomes solid and it's hard to clean the mechanism of the levers, but only rare adjustments were necessary.)
That said I just had a look at the gears and their teeth today, and it's not pretty... I think I'm only on my 2nd chain on this system, 3 at most - the previous broke. Also the bottom bracket is becoming a bit lose, maybe the ball bearings...
I'm now considering a "cyclotourism" bike sold with Microshift 10V, I'd like to ask instead for a replacement with Shimano 105 (11V? standard chain I suppose), or ideally with GRX (10V) but I don't think they do the GRX on this < 1000 euro bike... , do you have any recommendation at this level? Also I'm tempted to ask for rim brakes instead of the hydro+cable disk brakes, which sound like a lot of a trouble to maintain (I have no experience at all with hydraulic)?
I ordered U6000 1by for my heavy 160KG with me and packs,touring bike😂 the 11-48 cassette on a 32 crank is exactly the sweet spot for me. Its no-ebike,hope its rugged enouth this time,the Alivio works but only for 2 years;) and with this setup it is easy to go 2by;)
the canned compressed air works great for the grips too!
I've always preferred friction front shifters, especially with triples. The indexing never lines up right.
Hairspray works so easily!
I have a Trek make in 2017 and it does friction in front and indexed at the rear. My front derailleur never rubs somehow, never have to micoadjust it.
First off.... I never gave up on triple cranks, been riding them since the early 1980's and still do....on my touring bikes (my "main" thing), on my mountain bikes, and on my commuter/utility bikes. The only thing I don't use them on is pure road/cyclocross bikes, which I run double cranks on.
Second....Also never gave up friction/front/thumbshifters. Kept using my trusty XC-Pro thumbies throughout 7x, and 8x, (at the time when all those fancy indexed thingies came out), and switched to Paul Thumbies for 9x. Again, this was for touring/mtn/commuter. I mostly stayed with thumbshifters on the rear too, though indexed (with the ability to switch to friction when needed). (I do use "standard" road shifters, Campy 10x, on my "forever" road bike).
Third....I'm SO pleased that MicroShift is currently making thumbshifters in 9x, 10x, even 11x! these days. Warms my little retro-grouch heart.
Fourth....I'm currently completing building my dream touring bike, something I've had in my head for many years, and been actively working on for the last 2 or 3. My drivetrain is spec'd as such: 9 speed, triple crank with 20t/32t/42t chainrings, 11-36 cassette, 9-speed Microshift thumbshifters (on custom mounts I made to fit on drop bars (Salsa Cowbell), and Shimano derailleurs vintage from the "Mega9" era (which can still be found today either NOS or very gently used if you look around enough). With wide-ish 700c tires, this gives me a range of 16.32 to 104.16 gear inches. And yes, on a loaded touring bike I definitely use that 16.32 low gear!
Friction front shifter? Of course, why would I use anything else?
Indexed rear? Yep (especially if I can do it with a thumbshifter!).
Typo ?
Using Sheldon Brown gear calculator 20t x 36t with wide-ish 700-38 tires gives : 15.2 gear-inches.
Spinning 20x46 x 700-38 @70 rpm = 5.1mph
(For the record @80 rpm = 5.8 mph)
Under 70rpm (headwinds, surface with a high rolling resistance...etc) aren’t you better off with hike-a-biking ?
I didn't have a typo but you did ("....20x46 x700....")
My tire size is 50mm, so the calculations work as written.
As for hike-a-biking......
A - pushing a loaded touring bike (panniers, weight, etc.) ain't no fun.
B - This is a touring bike, not a bike-packing rig. Some tours are many months on the bike. I actually tour pretty light compared to most, but I'm still carrying quite a bit more weight than a typical weekend bikepacking trip. And (very) low gears can come in handy.
C - I'm often riding off road, including single track, and yes with some steep grades that low gear is absolutely useful then.
D - I can and do ride a touring bike on those grades/surfaces, and in that gear. Balance is the key (and it's fun!).
E - If I CAN ride a given situation, that is ALWAYS preferable to walking/pushing. More efficient, more fun, more satisfying, and more suave.
Heck, I'm bike riding, not hiking!
Front mechs just work better with friction, I can derail and rerail my chain on instinct ahah
Got the old grx with a bar end for the front mech and it's the best setup I've found, running 11-45 cues cassette and 43/30 sram crankset I get all the gearing I could want for loaded trips.
Not on topic, I love your glasses Russ! The blue changes color when you turn your head!
Park Tools I believe 🤓
Hopefully the drop bar compatible CUES brifters don't suck whenever they get around to launching those. Those will be much more novel considering flat bar people already have loads of great low range options, but drop bar people mechanical people still don't have many options apart from Sword and Ratio'd Sram stuff.
Thank you!! I've been waiting for the 2x review for the cues!
Mr PLP, I have the same setup with a down tube shifter for the front and a XT 11-speed for the rear. I call it 1 and a half-by! 1.5x!!!
You’re getting pretty savvy with the subtle merch plugs - well done at the end! 😉
It’s nice that they included a barrel adjuster
Install a longer b screw on the deore and you can get an 11/42 cassette to work without purchase of new derailleur. Have two deore setup like this.
I’ve been wanting to do this for a while, I definitely will now!
I really like the look of the Cues derailleurs, they just look badass all matte blacked out. They look like they should be on a stealth fighter jet, lol. I eventually want to switch over my SLX groupset to Cues but right now I'm broke lol. I priced it out on Amazon for the cassette, derailleur and shifter and it comes in at almost $280.00 plus I'd have to buy a new chain since the lowest gear is 50T compared to my 42T, and for some reason all the Cues derailleurs on Amazon are direct mount so I'd have to buy one of those Wolftooth Goat links, it makes no sense, nobody uses direct mount derailleurs anymore.
I create space with zip ties and then spray water + soap underneath the grip little by little, works fine !
We just moved to Spain. I don’t own a spray bottle any more.
I found a pair of gloves and brute force to be effective with grip install/removal. Compressed air works well, but a pair of gloves was actually a but faster for me.
I'm taking my silicone grips by putting a ZIP tie in, then putting some dish soap in the hole and then squeezing grip to create a movement like a caterpillar 😅
10:08 The familiar noise of a small part hitting the floor. New location, same great content.
Try pinching the end of the grip and spraying alcohol underneath. That should help it slide off
i had to do esi grips rather recently. Easily best solution i found was like 3 chopsticks, wedge under, plus a bottle of soap mixed with water...lots of spray ..give em some back and forth twisting and pulling and came right off....i tried alcohol with this solution and did nearly nothing. My esi grips were on there a long time
Would Stein's hyperhandle cassette tool be a cheaper replacement, while also eliminating the need for a chain whip? Or did the tool you showed do something different/more?
I use meths to slide off/on a grip. Gently prise open grip with a screw driver, and get some meths in. Remove screw driver and twist off grip.
brilliant Russ!
Most TT bikes with mechanical shifting is Friction front and Indexed rear.