How House Of The Dragon Changed The Great Council Of 101 | House Of The Dragon Analysis
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- Опубліковано 18 бер 2023
- The opening scene of House Of The Dragon season 1 shows the great council of 101ac called by King Jaehaerys Targaryen to decide his heir after the death of Prince Baelon. The show depicts this choice as being between Princess Rhaenys Targaryen and Prince Viserys Targaryen, where in the book fire and blood the choice comes down to Rhaenys son Laenor Velaryon and Prince Viserys. While on the surface this may seem like a small change, but in truth it changes the context of the great council of 101 and what it truly mean, having a huge impact on Rhaenys as a character and in some way simplifying the backstory to the events leading up to house of the dragon. This Video will give my analysis as to why the seemingly small change was made and the impact it has on the story
How House Of The Dragon Changed The Great Council Of 101 | House Of The Dragon Analysis
With house of the dragon coming out in a little over three weeks this video will break down by biggest concern about house of the dragon, the show runners picking sides between the black and greens. The Dance Of The Dragons will be the focus of the plot of the new HBO spin-off House Of The Dragon coming in 2022. So if you want to learn the story before we see HBO's take on it then this will be a very long-running series. Game Of Thrones / House of the dragon are HBO shows based on George R R Martin's A Song Of Ice And Fire series. The information in this video comes from the books a world of ice and fire as well as fire and blood.
The Coronation Of Queen Rhaenyra (Dance Of The Dragons) Game Of Thrones History & Lore
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Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen was trapped on Dragonstone by her brother King Aegon ii with no way to escape her fate. What was to come was the final showdown between the two main players of the dance of the dragons and bring the war into its final phase. The House of the dragon was crumbling and the events that was about to follow would only cause more damage to both sides of the war.
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#gameofthrones #asoiaf #houseofthedragon #hbogameofthrones #asongoficeandfire #got #fireandblood #danceofdragons #windsofwinter - Розваги
Hello All, just a quick fyi, i've been testing out some new audio mastering so i thought it would be best to test it out on a one off video like this rather than one of the series. it is very much a work in progress and i will probably be doing some more tests. Feedback would be a great help. I don't hate my normal audio and on my sound system it sounds ok, but i've had a few people over the last few months suggest otherwise and after listening to a video on my phone where it sounded very different than i expected made me think a lot about how everyone has different speakers and it will sound different for each person. I'm still playing about with the setting, and i will be doing a lot more tests, so feedback would be helpful.
Hey man, love your content, keep making these videos they are awesome
If your talking about that you know what scene I totally agree. The only part I did like was the hunt for Aegon and what we learn about Aemond character Ewan Mitchell literally crushes them scenes when he talk about his own ambitions what he feels is right. Overall this show has took a part of Fire and blood and made it totally work. These actors were under a ton of pressure to succeed and it look like it came natural with Matt and paddy leading the way. It will be interesting when we get later on down the line as characters go bye bye how the rest of the cast can hold it together.
I realized something was wrong as soon as they said Rhaenys was the "eldest" descendant and not the "most senior according to the royal line." She's the only child of the eldest son of the king. Rhaenyra however is not from a more senior line than Aegon; they are from the same line and brothers have seniority over sisters. Rhaenys was actually supposed to be heir by rules of Westerosi sucession. She was denied on the account of her gender. Rhaenyra's claim to the throne had no basis in the laws of Westeros. Legally, there is a night and day difference between these two women's positions. The difference is that it's impossible to make an argument that Rhaenyra has a stronger claim than Aegon according to the rules of succession but pretty easy to argue for Rhaenys being the most senior claimant. If not her then her son Laenor if it has to be a man. The Council was about male preference primogeniture (According to which Rhaenys and her descendants would be heirs) and male only primogeniture (According to which Viserys and his male descendants would be heirs). If they explained this is the show or just didn't change the book version than it would've added to the significance of Rhaenyra marrying Laenor (Uniting both claims at the great council into one lineage to a certain extent) and also why Rhaenyra's eldest sons not being Laenor's screws the Blacks over so badly. The seniority they needed over the Greens depended on it. Ironically, the only thing keeping Viserys' side of the family on the throne is direct male descent. Lose that and the Velaryon branch of house Targaryen probably has the best claim.
On your question about the customs/law versus the kings words, judging from our own medieval history custons/laws matter way more than one king's preference. When a king chooses an heir that's not the heir by the laws it's an alternate succession. Alternate successions basically never work as the heir by law usually shows up with the support of the whole country and claims the throne anyway. In Henry VIII's alternate succession plan he degreed that after his children the descendants of his younger sister would come before the descendants of his older sister. This was effortlessly ignored by everyone. Similarly, his son Edward VI decreed that the throne would pass to a distant protestant cousin over his sisters and this was also basically ignored. In these cases, we can see that nobody actually cared what the king thought on the succession, especially when he was dead, and instead stuck to the official inheritance rules over the alternate succession. And remember, this was a period where the English monarch had more power than any other time in history because feudalism had ended and they controlled the church.
Monarchs under a feudal system definitely had much less power because they needed the support of the nobles meaning they had to be generally lawful. As time progressed in the middle ages the general logic became: "If the king doesn't follow the law, why should we see his reign as lawful." Richard II was unanimously overthrown by the senior nobility for completely undermining all laws to extend his tyranny. He tortured and flat-out stole the lands of Royal Dukes, and members of his own royal family, without any real cause. If they weren't safe from his tyranny then nobody was. Nobles rebelled. Nobody doubted he was the true heir to the throne, but it didn't matter. Being monarch means you are head of state and government, not a warlord. You can conquer with Fire and Blood but you shouldn't always rule with it. Following the "Kings word" in Targaryen context meant "On threat of dragon fire." For an in ASOIAF universe example, Aerys II broke faith with House Stark when he murdered the Lord of Winterfell and his heir for, in the eyes of all, no good reason. This is why most of the great lord's rebelled against Aerys II. If even Ned Stark saw deposing Aerys as legal and right then it probably was in the universe as well. Maegor I's entire kingship is an example of this as well. Balerion didn't stop most of the houses from rebelling against him. Clearly it takes more than just dragon power and blood of old valyria to unite the 7 kingdoms although the "Daemons", "Aemonds", and other "Mad Targaryens" don't understand that. The main point is that the laws as the people (Lord's and septons in this case) see them matter way more than what the King says, especially on matters of great significance such as succession. Monarchs can't get away with goofy justifications for major decisions they make.
your analysis is spot on, I have been trying explain this same logic to Rhaenyra fans for the last year and to Daenerys fans for the last 4 years but they NEVER seem to get it
@@truetory6231 Oh boy I here ya. Firstly, I think it's because popular culture has huge misconceptions on what a medieval King is and the context of a medieval world. This might be why people would denounce everything Otto or Alicent (Or a Green fan) would say on matters even though everything they say is literally 100% correct in the context of a medieval world to anyone who is familiar with real medieval history. Conversely, with a perspective like ours everything Daemon, Rhaenyra, and Viserys say just seem absolutely goofy. To other viewers it's vice versa. The Black's are right and the Greens are overreacting. 🙃
The other thing is that because Rhaenyra is at the forefront of the show viewers who don't dig through the source can't truly get a sense of how random of a choice Rhaenyra is for heir to House Targaryen. If women are allowed on the throne then Rhaenys, Baela, Rhaena, and even Aegon's daughter Jaehaera would be before her in a line of succession. That's literally 4 other legitimate Targaryen princesses who even bear the name from their fathers! There is no way anyone looking at a family tree of House Targaryen at that point without any context could possibly reach the conclusion that Rhaenyra is the heir. The only two conclusions you could reasonably reach are Rhaenys or Aegon II mirroring the same 2 branches at the Great Council. Any other deviations from those 2 claims to Kingship were not even considered.
Also, you might just get immediately denounced as some buzz word for trying to share your opinion on something as insignificant as who has a better claim to leadership in the context of a fictional setting. Too many fans think that your opinion on this matter reflects your actual world view. You might get shut down by some Team Black fans for too much "mental gymnastics" as well. I'd say Team Green or Team Blue fans are much more receptive to genuine discussion and points from the other side.
Some fans also see Rhaenyra as the new Daenerys but that's ridiculously off. Daenerys is much smarter, more capable, and much more genuinely well meaning than Rhaenyra (I'm not counting the season 8 crazy Daenerys because her arc in the books will definitely be different even if the destination is the same). She also has a much better claim to the throne. I'd say it would be either her or Stannis in the main story (Jon's identity is not confirmed yet). How can we possibly compare a woman who singlehandedly restored House Targaryen to it's original ancient strength from nothing to someone who basically did the opposite?
As a side note to the changes made in the story leading up to the Dance;
I think that, while yes the producers can use the "Fire and Blood is written by both biased and exaggerated sources", they've changed a few things that I hardly believe was an issue in terms of historical record.
Things such as changing Alicent's age, Vaemond's relation to Corlys, and Rhaenys' slaughter of innocents in the Dragonpit are things I'd hardly think would be up to interpretation, unless of course, the producers took a few liberties. Much like how, in GoT, even the early seasons where we had the books as direct reference, they still excluded some characters and changed ages, etc. So I think it's 80% "Fire and Blood only tells part of the story", and 20% "The Producers and George have straight up changed a few things for the sake of new plot narratives".
Cause I mean really, not knowing that the Sea Snake had a brother and assuming he was a nephew (or that Alicent and Rhaenyra were never once friends and were always beefing) seems like there'd be too many accounts and evidence to the contrary, just saying. Even secondhand maester accounts should know about the Velaryon Line more than that.
they had to age up the younger characters a bit so they moved the timeline around (much as they did with Daenerys in GoT) so Laenor wasn't even born until a year after the Great Council, so instead it's a choice between Viserys and Rhaenys directly. I don't really have a problem with that: it was between the _bloodlines_ of Rhaenys and Viserys, and it's shorter to say as a sound bite for a TV audience than "well, Laenor was male, but a male heir THROUGH a female..." etc. It was a bit jarring at first, but so much of the rest of the show was faithful to the book ....it was still "the Viserys faction versus the Rhaenys faction" -- it kept the _spirit_ of the book if not the letter, which is what adaptations should try to do
In all honesty it's still a bit confused on the show timeline, i've not really say down and gone through it. I was actually very surprised how faithfully they stuck to the book, don't get me wrong there is a couple of changes they made that irk me a bit but nothing on the scale of GoT and nothing that really impacts too much
@@WorldOfWesteros I'm working on a video about the TV timeline in my next batch later this week, check back soon...was there any specific timeline thing you took issue with?
I think it could be an easy fix to just have it Alysanne still fights with Jahaerys over Rhaenys getting passed over for her uncle Baelon by having Magelle in her mediation between her parents get her father to say he wants a child to take throne over a grand child, but that Rhaenys would be in line after him (they could move time around to have Aemon maybe die earlier when Rhaenys is a baby or give Aemon a death scare situation like they did with Corlys in show to bring up succession/inheritance issue.
What you said about conflicting accounts of events is very true, there are different sayings by Mushroom and Septon Barth and other historians as well, mushroom seams to over sexualize things while Barth tells very less from what actually happened, the truth is midway between these two.
For example, Mushroom said that Alys rivers has fed Lyonel, Harwin and Larys making her very old just like Mel. But other historians say that she looked young for her age
Could just be she aged well due to the magics she has. Maybe she's in her late 30's or something, but looks early 20's
@@thalmoragent9344 I hope she's like 40s and looks maybe 30s tbh. It really would highlight Aemond's mommy issues
The problem with the succesion is that EVERY CHOICE is wrong.
Picking Rheanys would make Laenor the heir, but Laenor is gay and didn't do a great job hiding it. That would've meant that "his" children would've been bastards and this would've probably been known like it was with "his" children by Rhaenyra, which would've triggered unrest and probably another war cuz the other branches had other claiments.
It's obvious why Rhaenyra's claim would be challanged, the only way that it could've been prevented would've been by killing or bannishing all of the Greens (which would've started another war, one that would've been less harmfull due to only the Targaryens having dragons). Or by Viserys not marrying again making Rhaenyra the only heir.
Picking Aegon could've worked if Viserys wasn't weak and had just named him heir and raised him not to be a twat. This would've stopped all of the other problems immediatly cuz Rhaenyra didn't expect to be named heir anyway. But this didn't happen so picking him would've been seen as an insult to the other claiments and Daemon would've probably started the war.
the precedent wasnt just jaehaerys it was aegon who ruled Dragonstone over his older sister visenya, it was aegon who was heir over his older sister rhaena at this point its fact that males inherit over females the only destinction that needed to be made was uncle over niece which was a fact as daemon was viserys heir not rhaenyra
Andal and Valayia law puts daughters over Uncles but not Sons. But it was Jaehaerys who put an end to that when he inherited in front of Aegon the uncrown infant daughters. Its why this whole crisis was happening in the first place and why Rhenys and Rhenyra had such problems inheriting in front of Uncles and Cousins
The Conqueror clearly saw his sisters as his equals and left alot of the ruling to them. He was the Lord of Dragonstone but Visenya was the Lady, they ruled together, and her son became the first Prince of Dragonstone. It's not actually stated (that I can remember) but it very much looked like Aenys wanted Rhaena and Aegon the Uncrowned to rule together like Jaehaerys had later intended for Daenerys and Aemon. As for Daemon we would all love to see him as king to bring Oldtown to heel as Maegor the Wise had done before him, but Rhaenyra was Viserys' chosen and acknowledged heir.
a formality that had no basis in law based on the kings whims no queen after alysane had a lot of power. and even then the maesters repeatedly stated jaehaerys was king and alysane had no legal power to make laws so calling the new pro women laws alysane laws are inaccurate
@@Jacaerys4life
To be fair, Maegor was only called Prince of Dragonstone cause he was the one that was there most often, and not Aenys...
And while it's fine to have siblings rule together, one of them has to be the actual ruling Monarch. Aegon and his sisters ruled together yes, bit Aegon was THE head Monarch. Just as Jaehaerys merely allowed for Alysanne's laws to be implemented, not that she had the power to do it herself
@@Jacaerys4life Aenys inherited the throne not Maegor.
They really messed up how interesting the primary story could have been if the show followed the book in the council
Nah not really, it doesn't really change anything especially because Laenor a more minor character in the show than the book so the focus being on Rhaenys is fine
@@Spongebrain97 It would have actually been unprecedented if Rhayneara was the 1st woman considered for Queen. Funny you trust the writers who crashed through the floor of the Sept and then have the Queen who never was fly off instead of doing something other than murder peasantry
Yeah not really. You mad that they made it about gender ?
First to take the Black!!!!!!!
I mean if you really look at it yes laenor velaryon not there. But he lets say Rhaenys is chosen right she queen right Laenor is next in line. Yes it was done for the show but it make sense in a way sort of like competing against yourself but also like you said trying to trace the male line back. I don’t mind the change not everything going to be 100% copy and paste. But at least they’re keeping within the blueprint of book not made up crap after the source is all dried up. I’m fine expanding a few characters story as long as it fits sort of like they did with Visereys yes he get sick but who would though that bad as displayed in the show..
The way i interpreted who would be Rhaenys heir if chosen is that their is a strong possibility she would see Laena as her heir given she is older than Laenor. For the most part the changes made in the show added to the characters which is what GoT failed to to. There are still a couple that irk me a bit like Aegon's Coronation but for the most part i was happy with most of it
I'm a huge fan of Fire & Blood & I must say the show did a wonderful job with that opening & the changes weren't that effective to the story. It was a very good choice & a good opening for the show.
this change and the green council at ep9 damaged the green's claim a lot. Anyone coming from the show would think rhaenyra has a better claim because she was named by Viserys while Aegon technically have a stronger claim. A claim backed by tradition, andal law and the great council of 101. The fact that Jaehaerys has to negotiate with the faith for the doctrine of exceptionalism is a tangible proof that the power that the king holds has limits.
A good piece of extra info is Princess Aerea being the heir of Maegor rather than Viserys or Jaehaerys, he did the right thing here as Westeros is male PREFERENCE and not exclusive. As for Daenerys and Aemon, Jaehaerys wanted for them to rule together.
I think that was Maegor's way of saying f u to Jaehaerys and his side of the family because of the tension
@@ThatOneSandwichGuy But if they were following Andal law, Aerea would be the default heir anyway.
That was more to remove Jaehaerys from the throne. And Maegor also married multiple spouses...