Was Watcher's Apology Genuine? Body Language Analysis
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- Опубліковано 23 кві 2024
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The channel "Watcher" recently announced their departure from UA-cam. However, it was not received well, and many people were frustrated and hurt by the sudden move. After receiving substantial backlash for the blunder, they have issued an apology for their actions. This is my analysis of that apology video.
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When do you plan to tell us why your wife made a video on the brink of tears in front of a courthouse filing for a divorce claiming your emotional, physical and s3xual abuse on her? Or are you just gonna keep quiet bc you know most of your viewers don't even know this bc she doesn't have as big of a platform as you? Silence is loud.
She also said you're lying abt your degree in this stuff you do and that you're cheating on her with your employee, basically pulling a Ned from Try guys you also reacted to... WITH her..
Man up, make a video, and let US for once analyze YOUR body language you claim you have a degree on.
@@armyb140 do u have some sources? I want to look into that
@@slinkyshade9558Search up Observe wife, she has 2 video on this, yt will probably delete my link if I post it.
@@armyb140 why do you feel entitled to know about a youtubers personal life? some of those things are definitely concerning to hear, but him cheating on his spouse... thats literally not relevant or anyones business.
@@anywhere_but_here Abusers should be outed, I'm sorry if you feel differently.
They put Shane in the middle this time. Very strategic. I wouldn’t blame him if he jumped ship. He’d be successful even on his own. He seems like the most down to earth of the 3. IMO
I didn't want to say so because I didn't want it to be a situation of me simply liking Shane but I thought the same as you.
Shane is the highlight of buzzfeed unsolved. There was a guy before shane and i didn't find ryan that interesting with that guy. It's all shane really. He is just unique.
Proof that they really are monitoring the fan comments as they noticed he's getting the least heat lmfao, but after all the BS his wife said on tumblr idek anymore
Amen. At this point.. just give us the Shane vibe 😊
@@alshahriar6230But I like them together honestly.
Steven strikes me as someone who's still 100% on the streaming route and leaving youtube. He was there to defend it while Shane and Ryan were there to apologize. I've never seen Shane be so quiet on screen before
yeah he looks PISSED and grudgingly exist, in contrast to how playful and chaotic he usually is,
You got to understand this video by all three of them would have been heavily discussed and how each one would deliver themselves
They all want this streaming platform. They just took it for granted that their subs may want a say on that too
Also remember Shane and Ryan agreed to all this.. they aren't just bystanders
We can hope. I for one would be happy to not see steven at Watcher.
@@FukaiKokoro the truth is, we don’t know what happened. it’s annoying how people keep talking in definitives lmao- we can judge based on the information we have right now, we don’t need to guess their inner workings and dynamics. idk why people think they know what went down, but either way the only truth is that we don’t know. making a decision based on something that could be completely wrong is not helping anyone. im saying this for both sides, shane and ryan agreed vs they had no choice. i don’t think whose fault it is is that important because they’re a company, they will operate as a company. i feel like it’s making this situation a lot more dramatic than it should be, and it’s distracting from the original issue that had people upset. yk ad hominem fallacy and all that
I find it interesting that in the video they announced the streaming platform it felt like Ryan and Shane were reading the script when Steven felt more genuine in his delivery. In this video it seems that Steven is reading the words and Ryan and Shane are feeling them.
Exactly this, I felt for a while that Steven is a bit the odd one out, content-wise but also personality-wise. I've often wondered what he was doing there. Especially in the "too many spirits", I always skipped the cringy Steven mixing cocktails part
I was thinking the same thing. They felt more genuine now, but to me and the short sampling I have of steven is that he is always a bit flat and wont let go of the reading a script safety.
Although I didn't notice anything like you said about the first video (I might go and look again),I definitely noticed Steven reading a script in this one,while with Ryan and Shane it come off more natural.
I don't want to defend Steven but to some people saying they are sorry (even when they really are remorseful) is really hard and nerve-wracking. So it might be that.
Noticed that too
@Ihatemondaymorning I always skipped Steven's parts too, I felt like a jerk not liking him but for some reason I just never have
just devil's advocate here on steven: while my INTUITION is definitely telling me that steven doesn't feel too bad about this, as a psychologist i want to step in and say that emotionally dissociating from the situation also makes sense, which would explain his detached presentation. it's also possible that he's feeling so anxious and remorseful that he's reacting with tempered aggression as a fight or flight response. think about it: some people immediately jump to anger and defensiveness when they're in the wrong, even if they know and feel that they're in the wrong. anyway, just food for thought.
EDIT: a reply brought this point up: steven could also totally be neurodivergent and simply presenting in a way that neurotypical people would find unacceptable in the current situation. a lack of expression doesn't always mean a lack of feeling.
If he's been reading the fan commentary I can definitely understand him emotionally dissociating.
He’s gotten a LOT of hate. It would make sense.
While listening to the video explanation of their behaviors when he mentions Steven’s, I thought that to me it makes sense. The backlash towards him has been super heavy. I think before this video he knew he wasn’t exactly popular with a lot of viewers, but after?? He definitely understands how people feel when it comes to him. A lot of his defensiveness might be protecting himself.
If he didn’t know that the fan base disliked him so much. He does now and it’s probably killing him inside.
This is what I thought when I first watched it. He’s definitely gotten a lot of awful comments and I’m sure he’s feeling defensive so he isn’t showing any weakness.
As someone who's watched their stuff since their Buzzfeed days: your analysis of their personalities/ group dynamics is spot-on. I don't think Steven is actually sorry nor do I think he would have appeared in/ taped an apology if he thought it wouldn't mess up his paycheck. He's probably pissed in this video because he knows he'll never get his "Worth It" revival. I'd be willing to bet that Steven was the driving force behind this decision and they were waiting on him to approve walking it back. You touched on this a little bit: people in the reviews and comments would talk about how there's three of them, that they're all founders, so it *had* to be a group decision. I don't think so. Ryan and Shane had stepped down as CEOs last year leaving Steven to be the sole CEO because he was the one who understood the business side of this stuff whereas Ryan and Shane were the creative force behind Watcher. As CEO, I can only imagine that he gets more say than people think, and since he hired on his buddies from his old Buzzfeed show Worth It (literally a show dedicated to experiencing ridiculous luxuries) I bet they were the voices suggesting Ryan and Shane just go along with it so they can make even more money. Steven's entire claim to fame is spending beaucoops of someone else's money on stuff most of us wouldn't consider doing even if we had the cash; so it wouldn't shock anyone if he was the one who came up with this hairbrained scheme and pushed it as hard as he could so he could relive his "Worth It" days on Watcher's dime.
Well he finally saw how a big chunk of the audience and subs on the channel feel about him. Yes, mostly all if not all the channel subs are just there for Shane and Ryan, not him. Ego blow in the face.
@@CapucineNighly I know I ranted about his snotty rich kid behavior on the original video. Dude has to genuinely be a clinical narcissist or something to think he's that important to their channel; I just about wouldn't watch Too Many Spirits because it always felt like he was trying too hard to be the main attraction (might have just been a bit, but fuck me did I hate watching it).
@@instantcharlie1225 I agree. I find Too Many Spirits hard to watch too. Before I knew Steven was the CEO of Watcher, I thought he was a friend Ryan and Shane roped in on TMS. It always felt a bit like weird watching.
Yeah I really don’t care about the things Steven has made so far and I def didn’t sub to watcher for him. It was purely for Shane and Ryan. I followed them all the way back from the beginning of unsolved and hope they’ll never stop creating videos and I love seeing them going at each other in a way only good friends can do… but Steven just always felt off to me and just a bit too full of himself
the thing is, i DID like "Worth It". not necessary for the price, but more for how funny Andrew Ilnicky is (the other guy, beside the cameraman, Adam), and just the overall walking around and talk about food. idc if they did "Worth It" of three cheapest places in the city, as long as they have fun, being funny, and maybe a little chaotic (which is probably why i also adored Unsolved)
the notion that Steven has to “curate” an apologetic or remorseful face seems to be a testament of what happens when you “learn how to be a human on UA-cam”
honestly, what does that "learn how to be a human on UA-cam" even mean? 😵💫
Personally he's always given me alien wearing human skin but that's just me. It's so hard to describe
😂 PERIOD!
@@MagisterialVoyagerAre you serious? 😂 What they said was very cut and dry. How do you not understand it? There isn't really an easier way to say it..
@@TheKatarinaGiselle I'm referring to Steven's "learn how to be human on UA-cam". I'm very serious on not understanding what does it mean to learn how to be human on UA-cam. Learning on UA-cam is something I can understand, but "learning how to be human" is an interesting choice of words that I personally still don't understand.
To be honest Steven's posture and tone this entire video reminded me of Eugene's posture from the Try Guy's video when they were discussing the whole Ned situation. While Eugene's posture was totally warranted, it's crazy to me that I'm seeing such a posture in an apology video. I don't even watch Watchers' videos, but just by my own experiences Steven's attitude seems like he's only saying things he knows people want to hear, not because he really feels the things he is saying.
Yeah. I found it really bizarre, since it just didn't make any sense at all. I just... Didn't want to be seeing that from him, out of all people?
Honestly feel like this whole thing was pushed by him. In the first video Shane seemed so uncomfortable
Now that you mentioned it, I can see it too. But Eugene was def pissed (probably at Ned) and that was totally understandable, but here is just so out of line. Like Steven we aren’t your enemy…
@@blacksheep2234 Are we now? 💀
@@MagisterialVoyager hmm maybe you’re right… I never really liked him anyways 😅
I think it’s ridiculous to say their channel wouldn’t have made it without the changes… cut your staff, your salaries, your expenses (first class flight, 5 stars hotels) and it will work out…
As a flower shop owner, so true..
Bingo. No one asked for any more shows. All we wanted was Ghost Files and Puppet History. They aren’t content geniuses, so they shouldn’t try to act like it.
You obvious never watched their annual Making Watcher updates. If you did, you'd know they aren't taking first class flights nor booking 5 star hotels. False assumptions are irresponsible
The thing is, they reiterate in both videos that they want to avoid laying their coworkers off, which is something I actually appreciate, and they don’t go to five stars hotels (there’s actually a funny story about one of the hotels they had reserved at some point). Maybe they shouldn’t have hired so many people in the first place, though. Maybe they could’ve rented a place that wasn’t in Hollywood. Maybe they could have been, you know, a bit more responsible with the main structure of their business
@@heyitsthatdood - "they aren't content geniuses"
I'm not all the way through the video yet, but I saw someone mention that Steven once said he had trouble with expressing emotions growing up, had to practice smiling, etc.
I don't know the reason behind it, and I don't want to speculate, but I know both neurodivergence and trauma are a few reasons this could happen.
Whatever his reasons, if it's true, I think that would explain why his nonverbal communication comes across as disingenuous. He might actually be sorry off screen, but in this moment, I think it's possible he's totally disconnected from his genuine feelings and focused on "performing" his emotions rather than feeling them.
Idk there's just these moments, where it's like he's remembering to emote or his gestures are just a little stiff, and I feel like there's more to it.
I think he said he had problems showing empathy? But I’m not 100% sure on that.
Finished the video now and yes, I stand by what I said about Steven.
There's nothing like contempt or disgust centered around compromising. Not annoyance or moral superiority that 'his idea' was shot down. It's like a blank state from him.
I'd be curious to know if that is just his baseline when on camera. People are suddenly saying they never liked Steven. That something always felt off about him.
It seems like its coming out of nowhere, but maybe that disconnect just seemed harmless before. Until now, with everything that went on this week, the audience is perceiving it as malice or greed, when it's just...nothing. His true emotions just don't manifest in body language like most people.
This is a really good point tbh!!
@@littlelilac901 That makes sense. Like I said, it was something I heard secondhand. I don't know when or exactly what he said, but if it's the case, he's struggled expressing emotions or empathy, that would drastically change his body language.
Yeah I could see that being the case. There's a lot of people like that, and also those who can just sort of cut off negative emotions when other people are around (which I know because I do that) so your point would make sense
I accept their apology but I won't resubscribe. Someone at their company is mismanaging money - most likely Steven since Ryan and Shane admitted they aren't good with money and made him CEO. They would have been better off hiring a financial advisor. Furthermore, making an apology video and receiving more money from their subscribers isn't going to fix the Steven problem. Ryan and Shane need to be able to stand up to him and correct course.
If anything, this apology video demonstrates that Steven has a lot of control over the situation and feels his actions are justified. Ryan and Shane are saying what Steven wants them to say which shows they're still under his influence. Time and again they provide excuses for why their business model isn't sustainable when other UA-camrs with similar numbers know that it is. I've seen many successful content creators say that 25 employees is an insane number for a channel of their size. There are thousands of Watcher fans willing to ignore the obvious just because they want to see their content.
For me, personally, I can't support a channel with Steven at the helm. It enables Steven's greed and is hurting two people I actually like.
The advent of Steven signaled the begining of the end. With just Shane & Ryan it was a hit; intelligent and witty. Not as much laughing on the episodes. Part of me is not surprised. Steven is a detriment.
Same! Didn't even know who he was before watcher! 😂
I don’t have good feelings about your comment.
Everyone spoke out, they listened, so they fixed the mistake and did what the audience asked of them.
And literally they did it to keep free content out but need subscribers to do that, so after all that even a free sub is out of the question? Is one mistake so unforgivable?
I just don’t like the idea of “if you do something I don’t like I’ll punish you no matter if you make up for it or not” mentality.
Even worse since Moistcritical was transparent with how these business dealing go and actually found out that they had at least 5 different avenues for revenue( live shows, merc store, patreon, sponsees and their videos run ads) so theirs no good reason to. Just greed
@@autumn557, UA-cam subscriptions are the "bank" of content creation. When a person misuses funds supplied to them by a bank or defaults on payments to a bank there is zero forgiveness. It is not my responsibility to bail out a million dollar business because they do not want to be responsible.
What people need to understand is Shane and Ryan are adults and also agreed to this. There's now world where Steven is the only one who made this decision.
To me it felt more like a "we're sorry you feel that way" more than a genuine apology.
Again, they already had pateron. They could have done pateron exclusive shows. And manged their Pateron better. Pateron only takes between 3-5% which is probably way cheaper than hosting your own website and video hosting. There really was no need for any of this.
"We're sorry you feel that say" feels very accurate, at least in the way Steven came across. I do feel like Shane and Ryan to a lesser extent are feeling it at least a little
Womp womp you’ll never be happy with an apology go cry
Personally, as much as I love Ryan and Shane, they both deserved to be humbled. Even in some of their recent content (mostly Ryan) they seemed to be putting on more of a 'performance' when being on screen. It kind of ruined the relatability feeling while watching. Like seeing Ryan pretend that he is still afraid of ghosts because that is what fans expect from him. Clearly he has overcome that fear, but still plays into it. It is annoying watching the performative aspect of it when I just want to see Ryan and Shane being genuine and relatable. The authenticity has been dwindling recently. So I hope that this whole experience humbles them, and makes them start acting more like themselves again. Stop overdoing things!
Now about Steven. The man bugs me. He has the whole time since they started Watcher. I can't get a good vibe on him, and he doesn't mesh well with Shane and Ryan's personalities, so it makes it more obvious. I don't want to dislike him, but him spending a bunch of money on ridiculously pricey foods in his videos doesn't sit well with me on a channel that otherwise is dedicated to funny, silly, spookiness.
When Ryan pretended to be an unprepared college student during... was it a Top 5 video? That's when I was like, "Sir, take your actor pants back off please" lol
That was something that always struck me as odd when they first started Watcher together. Shane and Ryan doing it together made sense, but I just couldn't figure out how Steven fit into the mix. I never remember him being a part of their shows on Buzzfeed and to me he seemed like the odd man out. I started thinking of this while watching Logan's prior review of the we're leaving video - is the reason Steven is involved is because he was able to bring more money to the table that allowed them to leave Buzzfeed and start the channel? And now that he feels like he's not getting enough money, now he's pushing for more and he feels like it's deserved? I don't know. I just could never understand how he meshed with the other two.
The Watcher channel was Steven's baby, I suspect he approached Ryan & Shane to partner with him once they departed BF, as the Worth It & Unsolved series were the most succesful shows from BF after the departure of the Try Guys. Steven likely believed the Watcher channel would be bigger right from the outset if he joined forces with Shane & Ryan. Steven all along pretended he was 'friends' with the other guys cos in the social media age the audience wants to buy into the 'authenticity' of the principals being friends, Steven's real friends on the Worth It series stayed behind at Buzzfeed. The 3 Watcher guys are not true friends but are work colleagues, that's why you don't see a genuineness in their relationship between Steven & the two other guys. From the beginning Steven was the odd man out or the 3rd wheel & imo the other two didn't really respect him, however Steven was the one who did the hard work & research to set up a company that he said he wanted to be sustainable. Kinda ironic now cos it seems like their ambitions exceeded their ability to bankroll their operation coats & lifestyle choices. Steven has had a problem with the BF crew & other content creators being disrespectful to him, so it would appear as the sole CEO he is either flexing his position on having the final say, or the other two guys are just too chicken shit to make the brave decisions to cut costs, tone down their ambition, or reduce their own salary. Sadly the performative aspect of Ryan, has also crept into the Try Guys content as well & sadly it seems like two of the main guys who still appear in screen, do not get along anymore. I suspect Ryan & Shanr go along with Steven's finacial decisions cos imo they know deep down they would not be as successful on their own, it was quite apparent on BF that Ryan in particular was quite difficult to work with & even Steven on an appearance with Ryan walked out on him cos he was so frustrated with Ryan not listening to him. All imo
@@doggyteabreaks9362thanks for sharing your perspective! I had wondered how exactly the dynamic between the three of them worked.
Honestly I feel Watcher has been a tad problematic from the get go. I was an avid fan of the BuzzFeed Unsolved series... but their new stuff is hit or miss sometimes. All of their personalities have felt a bit forced.
Honestly, Shane is the heart of the channel for me. If Watcher ends up failing, I kind of hope Shane starts up a solo UA-cam career. I genuinely could see him succeeding alone, and gaining millions of followers. Just by doing something super simple. No crazy sets, destinations, fancy food, or alcohol . Just him and an editor, and some occasional guests.
I'm so used to thinking Ryan and Shane all the time... but just Shane, without all of the extra-ness from the others would kind of be refreshing to experience . Ryan and Steven exhaust me.
You've positively nailed everything I've felt since watching Watcher bloom...thank you!
One good thing that came from this drama is that I found your channel.
Welcome to the body language analysis corner of UA-cam 🎉😂
@@lisabeloved Thank you! Glad to be here 😁
Welcome! It's always fun here and generally the comment section is quite civilised. Logan is awesome, hope you'll stick around!
Same here!
Logan is oh so awesome!
The first thing to do when a company is struggling is 'trim the fat' and focus on the core of what made you a success in the first place. Not take on lots more 'fat' that hasn't been market researched, and pay for it off the backs of fans with less money than you have. Do they 'need' 25 staff? Do they 'need' a studio in Hollywood? Do they need to produce too many spin-off videos that don't get as many views? I'd start trimming a lot of fat before offloading costs onto loyal fans that put you where you are in the first place. An inefficient, mismanaged bloated business model fueled by ambition (I don't want to say ego) is not the fans responsiblilty.
Exactly. Someone on the original video commented "I'd downsize my business before downsizing my fans"
Amen
They seem obsessed with the idea of being tv stars by how many times they kept saying 'tv-quality content'. As Logan said in the last video, they do not need 25 people as support staff. I get that they want to make the content they want to make, but it sounds very much like that content is not what sells for them, so them insisting 'we're going to do it whether you like it or not' seems like a horrible business decision. I have never heard of these guys before this whole mess, but they don't seem to be making good decisions.
Agreed and after hearing their ideas on the content they've already made and what to further build upon, this tells me that they aren't satisfied with their current work as in bigger, better, louder. You get the idea
However that's not what they need. That's not going to improve the work load or their production values
It's just the idea that they need this TV style presentation to appear more professional than being UA-camrs. It reeks of entitlement
I think they just can't handle letting people go. They wanted to build this company with friends and the ability to support them but can't. Seems they want that BuzzFeed glory day's vibe.
Layoffs are, sadly, just part of running a business sometimes. They over employed, and over produced their content and refused to admit they had made a mostake and tried to make their audience pay to cover them
That's what happens when you hire friends and family. It's hard to let them go.
They were still talking about expanding during the announcement, so it's possible that if they simply don't reboot Worth It like they were planning, they could even keep their staff. Part of the plan was to bring MORE people on as onscreen talent. If they overhired, they need to be realistic, but I have to wonder if that's even really the issue.
Steven had the equivalent tone of the "please stay on the line, your call is VERY important to us......" lady whenever a company puts you on hold lol
Are we forgetting the fact that on one of their more recent ghost files videos, wather took their whole team (which they've now admitted, they take the whole team with them to these events) to a theme park BEFORE going to their filming. Yeah, they're splurging money. You dont need to do that to be good employers.
Oh hell nah
I hope Shane feels a little guilty because he’s the one that is always like “eat the rich” so he should have known how wrong this move was, I’m disappointed in him.
unfortunately I don't think it's his decision what happens with a company as big as watcher. Afaik, Ryan and Shane aren't the CEOs of the company either. From their Body language, i think that Shane and Ryan may have been fed what the team and Steven decided, and while still having a huge say, they probably were overvoted in the end, or fed lies on what's actually going on. I can imagine that some "simple" crew may have just thought that they would be better off, and won't fear lay-offs if they generate more income. Wouldn't be the first time, nor the last.
Anybody that says “eat the rich” or anything like that is full of shit
When I look at the comments on any video related to this episode, I don't like the idea of Steven becoming a scapegoat. But I have to say that the way Shane and Ryan carried themselves also seemed the most sincere.
Don't feel bad for him. He's the one in charge of the money, he's the one buying luxury food and probably paying for them to live in California
None of the bigoted things said to Steven were ok. I will say, he did not make it easier on himself by doubling down with arrogant social media posts, bragging constantly about his Tesla, rebooting his expensive eating/travel show, cinstantly talking about money, and having the role and responsibility of CEO.
Shane and Ryan, though equally on board, were simply not as rude about it. And they stepped back to give Steven the reins.
@@PyxeledGenesis Shane spent 200k on his wedding and the 4th highest paid person in the company is his wife. You might want to reconsider how much your parasocial relationship with an actor whose onscreen personality doesn't match real life facts influences your views.
@@DanielleVlog365I just went to his Instagram to see just how bad it was, the ring he gave his wife was from a brand deal and used that as an instagram advertisement. It’s crazy how everything has been about money for him
@@blitzofchaosgaming6737 💯 People pretend Shane and Ryan (though mostly Shane) are innocent because they're more charismatic
I think something you missed in this video that I picked up on (as a fan of their content who watches most of what they release) is that Steven has noticeable circles under his eyes as well. They're red and puffy compared to how they look in most other videos. His voice also sounds shaky and small compared to how loud he sometimes is. I suspect that he's more nervous than Ryan and Shane because he got most of the heat over this decision, and to me he comes across as someone barely keeping it together after an extremely rough weekend. I feel like the emotionlessness is because of exhaustion and maybe being shut down after the rough weekend they had
I'm such a Steven in team meetings and emotional stuff.. I seem to be able to command a room and get my point across while I'm so quiet, a lot is due to exhaustion. Lucky for me I don't have to say I'm sorry much, as I think a lot of my actions though before I say or act. But I can make some people uncomfortable just by being so blank and emotionlessness, people who want a reaction or get out of control can feel very odd around me.
I just refuse to believe that they did this because ‘they would’ve eventually shut down had they stayed mainly on UA-cam.’ Like, just admit you suck at managing a business and fix it. Why do you need 25 employees, especially when those employees aren’t even helping with filming on the ghost files? Didn’t they say they’re hiring freelancers when they get there? Lol like… why not use the employees you’re already paying for
If you haven’t already go check out Penguin0 take on this as he has a knowledge on the background of how ads work and what companies are looking for. With what he has to say I think they either got greedy or didn’t realize just how much money they were pulling in as it’s enough to keep them afloat. They can’t back out now because people have already paid for the service so the best that they can do now is what they’re doing- releasing the content a month later on UA-cam
FYI: the free subscription to the steaming service for Patreon members? Code is good for three months. They don’t mention that fact anywhere-including when you request the code.
Does it tell you "3 months" when you redeem the code? I've seen people saying it but not sure where they see the 3 months
So they still expect you to double pay? Yuck
@@kaytea0963 apparently it’s in the reply email when you request the code. I only know because there is a lot of confusion in the Patreon comments section from people who messaged them for it, received it, and had a close look to realise they got the code but it says it’s good for 3 months. They haven’t addressed this fact publicly yet to my knowledge.
According to Reddit, they addressed this in a Patreon announcement
they have actually since posted clarification on that, it's a three month code for now while they're still getting things up and running, the post in on their patreon but i don't know if it's publically accessible
The math still just isn't adding up for me. There is no reason they should be so bad off financially. Also not a fan of how they refuse to change anything they are doing to try to cut costs. If you don't want to lay people off then cut production costs but they don't want to do that either. I certainly don't think new shows and their own streaming platform are the answer. Why not make compromises now to get the company and financial situation more stable and then take steps into being bigger and better? Part of me feels like the guys we saw in that out of touch first video is who they actually are. Another part wants to give them a chance to prove themselves to be better than that. I'm still undecided on whether or not they will get my view back but it definitely won't be any time soon.
It looks like it's just mismanaging funds and over-hiring (the same stuff that killed Buzzfeed). I did the math on just hard numbers: like the typical cents per view they should get in a typical month, the minimum amount they get per month off ad reads, and their Patreon payout if every single one was at the lowest tier; so no merch, sales from the tour, none of that, just their minimum amount on publicly available numbers: they make AT LEAST $250,000 a month, again, that's ***minimum***; so they are somehow spending way more than that per month. I honestly don't know if there's something shady going on, or if they're just hyperinflating their budget so they can justify the 30 employees they have. Overediting and overproducing the shows means it costs more and takes longer to produce so they have to have a bigger team; one of those circular kinds of thought.
They hired a bunch of friends and family, they want to look like a serious production company (which explains why they're so dead-set on staying in LA) and any form of downsizing or allowing their production value to drop makes them appear like a failure to these failing TV production companies that Ryan seems so adamant about mirroring.
I am also conflicted. My theory is that they are still planning to go all streamer, but now instead of a clean cut, they'll do it slowly and in increments. Brand new shows will debut and only be available on the streamer and later on current shows might go the way they originally said, posting the new season's first episode on YT but then subsequent episodes are streamer only. Eventually there will be so little left on YT that they'll make this announcement again, but maybe with more kindness toward their fans and maybe even a free month or two to the streamer to start. The complete reversal of what they were planning in such a short amount of time is...for lack of a better phrase, too good to be true. I can see it just being a temporary fix to keep the viewers for now, and down the line they'll be much more careful when announcing plans for the channel, but I worry the end result will be what they always planned on. I hope I'm wrong.
I'll tell you the math. They average 2 hours and 12 minutes a month of created content split among 28 people with full time employment including the 3 founders. That averages under 5 minutes of content a month each is responsible for while receiving full pay. Its unsustainable. It would be like thinking uploading a 5 minute video every month on a solo channel could be a full time job.
They do need to cut back on staff based on a very brief google $27 an hour in CA is (low number) livable, with 25 staff (not counting them) at 40 hour weeks, 52 weeks a year, that comes to $1,404,000. With CA laws there might be way more in overtime and travel pay can add up substantially. I assume some make more than that and some probably make less than that, but that is a pretty big chunk of change. I'd assume the 3 of them have a large salary, but not sure how large, if I remember correctly I thought some of them were still in apartments or were until recently. Plus the rent on their building has to be massive because of location.
To me it just seems like they have a CEO who isn't willing to take a pay cut to help the business survive. I wonder what the pay gap is over there.
Based on what we know about Steven’s shyness (despite camera experience) and talking about perpetually feeling like he doesn’t know how to best express himself to others and people regularly misinterpreting his body language, paired with the fact he specifically got a lot of unfair personal attacks (not defending their behavior, but people really wanted to laugh it all on Steven) and is afraid of that, I think it would make sense to assume he was putting all his energy into trying to stay calm and collected.
I'm not buying the bit about their ads, and how they're controlling of their content. Unless they are being told that by Steven so they were led to believe a streamer would be the "only" way. Find it misleading that the Patreon members are only getting a free 3 months as well.
Only 3 free months is such BS
It's always the same ain't it. Huge backlash, hence the course correcting, offer people something for free on a limited time scale and hope that it makes it all better 😂
The only thing I can think of is the sponsorship deals they do. They are usually quite long skits. I’ve heard from other UA-camrs that those type of product placements will care about the content of the episode, as they are basically endorsing it. I can’t think of a single Watcher ep that hasn’t had a major sponsor.
@@alisontheanimal4009yeah. i think maybe they can’t afford episodes without that kind of endorsement…like steven lim content
I think the 3 months make sense if they are handing out new codes every 3 months. Otherwise if someone unsubscribed their original code would still let them into the streaming service. New codes would make sure their current subscribers are the people with free access. But it's all conjecture on my end so they could be just ending the free code for everyone after 3 months which would be pretty scummy.
actually i kind of have a unique take on steven's social cues:
being singaporean/malaysian in school/professional settings, we're taught to STRICTLY always detach your personal feelings from your demeanor & behave "professionally" ie kind of put on a show when ur in work/presenting mode.
so i think the majority of us who've been raisied in this educational/office background would be conveying info similarly.
ofc with the upper tier speakers/presenters learning to add some EQ to the mix & convey emotional points alongside informational points. best eg of this^ our past prime ministers, tiktok ceo, certain ministers in parliament etcetc. but yeah just adding like a cultural context behind y he seems to behave in this manner
People seem to be blaming the whole thing on Steven even though they're all grown adults who made this decision together.
1)I appreciate you pointing out the fact that scripted doesn't mean inauthentic or unfeeling. Sometimes you just want to get the words right and use the right words.
2)I'm not trying to defend Steven but I was wondering if his more emotionless/defensive moves are due to like...emotional barriers and walls being built up. I don't know what sort of life he's had but I know my body language can come off defensive even when I'm speaking of something I 100% like/agree with/are in for you know? I don't know why I do it, Ill ask my therapist heh.
But, that thought popped in my head.
Steven is not my kind of person but I can stand behind what you said. I can easily imagine when person is naturally awkward they have trouble with stuff like this. Not to mention,he got the most hate. If I was in his position I would probably try to do as little as I can to anger people even more.
Generally I agree with this, especially as a neurodivergent who struggles with "correctly" emoting in the moment, but the fact that Steven's emoting changes so quickly and obviously based on the subject matter says a lot, especially considering his past behavior whether it's masking or not.
When you said “what kind of life he’s had” it made me think that I know in a lot of Asian families it’s discouraged to a) admit failure and b) express negative emotions. I admit I’m a bit of a tiger mom myself, but thankfully my kids are emotive and compassionate and always willing to say when they were wrong.
i will say steven looks at the very least disappointed to me. but to be fair to him i think he has also a less genuine camera presence/comedy style compared to shane and ryan. this is NOT a diss by the way, im just saying he usually puts up more of a character in his normal videos. i think he's more uncomfortable than the other two in a subdued/serious video. perhaprs even trying too hard to look genuine / overthinking. imo this was the case in the announcement as well. all of that makes him look more wooden/subdued.
have definitely noticed that about him in the regular videos as well. I normally don't hate it, but I can see how/why it doesn't work well for this type of video (or the last one for that matter), but you can't change how you feel around a camera/how you've trained yourself to behave in front of a camera at the drop of a hat. Beyond not ideal, but not unbelievable given what we've seen of him in the past
@@Trish0978yeah he's always been a little wooden on camera but this feels even more so.
It feels a bit like how people describe Mark Zuckerberg. How they think he doesn't act like a human. Zuck has said that he is on the autism spectrum and I do wonder if Steven may be too. Autistic people often have trouble with non-verbal communication (both doing it and reading it)
I still think that he's likely the driving force behind this all but I don't think he's doing it just for money's sake.
My over-analysis from pure theory:
When Shane says “we’re sorry” at 0:17, Steven twitches.
Shane is facing away from Steven and no one looks in his direction this whole video.
When Steven says “watching our content for free”, he scrunches his eyebrows together like this is something he does not want to do. When Shane is saying watching ad free on the platform, Steven nods, but doesn’t nod or agree with watching free on UA-cam and has a prolonged blink like he’s irritated.
When Ryan said they found it harder and harder to stay relevant to advertisers, Steven slow blinks and moves his head forward like this was something he wanted Ryan to say. Like a parent saying “go on” to a child.
When Shane says “to pay our staff fairly”, Steven kinda jerks his head towards Shane like he disagrees with what’s being said (is not getting paid as much as he thinks is fair?)
Steven looks like he’s going to cry when Ryan is asking the viewers to be patient with them through this mistake and nods a little more aggressively like he thinks he’s responsible.
When Steven says they didn’t take into account how this price would affect the viewers, Shane slightly wiggles his shoulder back in forth implying he might have brought this up and it was shut down.
Steven seems like a kicked puppy. Like he does want to cry and he is sorry. I do think this was his decision and he knows how much he messed up. That’s why he’s defensive. I believe he thinks he doesn’t get treated or maybe even paid the way he believes he deserves.
Shane seems slightly smug throughout this video like he almost thinks it’s funny. Kinda like “I told you so”.
When Ryan says “UA-cam landscape”, Shane looks down like he’s tired of hearing about the so called struggles they’re having. Goes along with his shift in body posture when Ryan starts talking about the troubles they’ve been having.
Shane gets very uncomfortable when Ryan says he hopes the viewers will be patient with them through the mistakes like he knows they’re not going to recover from this.
When Steven is talking about Patreons receiving a code to the new subscription, he knows it’s only for 3 months and he’s not agreeing with this decision. He kinda rolls his eyes.
When Shane is talking about looking forward to the viewers saying whether it’s on UA-cam (he says with a tad higher pitched and lifts his head higher like this is what he wants) or on the platform (which he lowers his head back down and says in a monotone voice”
I don’t think this was Shane’s idea and he’s a little amused on how much this backfired. Maybe he was planning on leaving to higher paid job and this was a way to try to get more money for him to stay and it didn’t work out like he knew it wouldn’t.
The vibe I’m getting off of Ryan this whole video is that he really wanted to do more things. So this might not have been his idea, but he went full tilt into it because (going off my theory about Shane leaving), he didn’t want his friend to go somewhere else. That’s why he’s grasping at straws to come up with an excuse that he thinks we will believe. Or maybe he wanted to broaden his horizons with filming and production and do more things. He seemed genuinely excited about that part.
Either way, they bit both hands that fed them. What advertisers are going to want to sponsor them after hearing Watcher bash them for being too controlling. How will that affect their brand if Watcher advertises for them again. And then the most important part. The followers. Giving them an ultimatum saying “pay us out of pocket or you don’t get to see us anymore”. They totally misread the room with all the conferences they do and their Patreons. People paid to see the ghost boys then, so why not make them pay more to see them at all.
I think that none of them should be CEO. That being said if you see people they are dragging Steven to hell and back so I kind of wonder if that is might be why he might be a bit standoffish
They seem obsessed with the idea of being tv stars by how many times they kept saying 'tv-quality content'. As Logan said in the last video, they do not need 25 people as support staff. I get that they want to make the content they want to make, but it sounds very much like that content is not what sells for them, so them insisting 'we're going to do it whether you like it or not' seems like a horrible business decision. I have never heard of these guys before this whole mess, but they don't seem to be making good decisions. This is Ego and Greed, nothing more.
i’m a fan of watcher and this sums up my take on this. they don’t want to have to rely on advertising revenue because and they have to right now.
@@lisalasers I doubt this platform of theirs will actually bring them much income. Considering how many people I've seen saying they have unsubscribed-- social blade says they've lost at least 60K -- it will be interesting to see if the can even afford to keep this streaming channel running. I'm not an expert on any of this, but it seems to be a very, very bad business decision.
@@lisalasers Yeah, I wasn't sure if I was being too harsh as I'm not a fan of theirs, but I'm seeing a lot of fans say something similar, so thanks for your input!
Funny thing is, people aren't watching TV as much anymore because they watch UA-cam instead.
@@Servo337 Also, you don't usually pay for just ONE tv station that has all the same people. If you're going to pay that much for a single station, you're going to get at east a dozen different shows with high quality production. This is all ego and greed.
Ryan's body language at the beginning reads like a young teenager who has gotten in the biggest trouble of his life - slumped into the back of the couch like he's trying to disappear, making emotional statements of apology that show he feels bad, but not offering or taking ownership of actions to move forward (which could be the scripting, or could just be him).
Shane's body language indicates that, regardless of how he personally feels about it (which could be any kind of way), he logically understands the impact of their actions and understands and believes it is their responsibility to acknowledge it and make changes to move forward.
Steven's body language from the beginning on just reads like he doesn't want to be there and he's just annoyed about the whole thing, which is understandable from a personal, defensive position, seeing as he has certainly gotten the most hate from audience reactions, and will be expected not to react to any of it. He reads like he has a lot to say about the reactions and comments he's gotten and is mad that he can't express that.
I'm very torn on Steven. On one hand, he's always seemed to function differently, and I don't think he enjoys hurting or offending people. On the other hand, it's hard to believe he could be this careless and incompetent at the same time. I don't think that Steven could strongarm Shane and Ryan into this, though. They might let him get away with some stuff, but I believe that they wanted the streamer, too. There's got to be more to the story.
The guys AND Sarah made it sound like it was a problem with their marketing and their explanation. They "didn't explain it well" NO Ryan, We're not idiots, we understand where you want the money to go. We just don't understand why you even need more money because you're making bank and we don't ask for much. We feel distraught that you don't understand your audience this much. We CAN'T afford to pay that for ONE channel. And the numbers don't add up enough for us to trust it. Even Netflix is struggling and The cheapest version of netflix has ads. What exactly was the plan here after this?
This is the best explanation I have seen about the whole situation. I was so confused as to why people where so upset. The not understanding their audience and the netflix comparison really helped!
I agree with you, but in my opinion, one important point was not mentioned, Logan. In their original video they said that they are financially struggling with the income they have now because of high production value and staff salary. And everybody commits, I think, that if such a widely successfull UA-cam channel with Patreon and sponsorships struggles to pay the bills, this is because they are overstaffed, overproduced and spending far too much money in all branches. They say NOTHING at all in this apology about this point. They clearly showed that none of the three has the business skill and experience to keep their company running with the funds they have, and this is not going to change. So either they were lying and not financially struggling (just want to earn even more money), or they are struggling and have not shown how to get out. Which spells doom on their company, sooner or later. I still find it hard to trust in their abilitiy to steer the ship away from the iceberg, and so find it hard to re-subscribe to them.
They lost my sub the moment I finished the "we're leaving" video, and I'm afraid they are nowhere near earning it back. I know I'm just one person, but their whole schtick during this time has rubbed me entirely the wrong way. Why should we pay for Steven's Tesla payments? Or to watch his unentertaining arse eat stupidly expensive food all over the globe?
Thats why they are out of money. Its the expensive food segments and traveling all over the world. Ghost hunting, their mystery segment and puppet history is not breaking the bank. I can see traveling for ghost hunting can be expensive, but for real - Sam and Colby do it just by themselves. and maybe one or two other people for the camera and sound...SOMETIMES. Cut your production value, and no more money problems...
@@londonmarie6974 and the food show is not even very popular. To be spending thousands of dollars on a segment that doesn't do as well as Ryan and Shane's content feels like Steven just wants the excuse to get to go to fancy restaurants and eat the most expensive meals without paying for it personally. Especially when you consider the new "traveling the world" segment when they claim they are broke, there would be an easy fix to reduce costs...
I'm only one person too. But I unsubscribed as well and will not be returning. I also took the old bun videos off my Playlist. Soured on all of them now and don't think I could watch another video without seeing money hungry twats
I gotta say.. I appreciate this version of you, Logan. I know it's a bit more personal than you prefer, but you're still doing a good job getting your points across. Also.. let them have it 😇
I'm more a fan of Ryan and Shane like most people, but Imo Steven looked the roughest in the apology, regardless of how emotionally expressive he appeared.
I totally agree - he has been completely vilified
Not long ago they said theyd given Steven the CEO title, cause Ryan and Shane were more creative minded snd not great at being in charge and dealing with money and advertisers etc. Then Steven teased another show of his centered around highly expensive food. Like all his other shoes that had him making 1000$ mac and cheese or whatever. They, or Steven, is making poor financial decisions, like going abroad for Ghost Files when they could still do tons of American sites, esp when theyve only been doing 5 episode seasons. I think Steven was the wrong choice, hes not good with people and i can only imagine how hes interacted with advertisers. Just cause he has a Teska and likes rich food doesn't mean hes good with money. I do not understand their disdain for UA-cam, when TV is dying as it was and UA-cam is where their schtick works. Loads of YTers have already shown they cant translate to the highly controlled old television cable network situation.
Anyway. I find it interesting your analysis also seemed to work out that hes the CEO for these decisions.
Yes it’s interesting because Shane is very much a “eat the rich” kinda guy and Steven seems to be his complete opposite.
It's baffling to me that they would want to leave UA-cam. They could have easily just leaned more into their patreon if they wanted more money without abandoning their yt audience. What a dumb decision. I think you're right that he was the wrong person for the job because he clearly isn't very good with money
there's an ep of their podcast where they're making fun of Steven for being too fancy and making fun of him owning a tesla and only drinking "fancy water" and he tries to joke it off but you can see he's annoyed 😂
@@DrJeykl He portrays that. It didn't stop him from spending 200k on his wedding just before they said they couldn't afford what they are doing on what they are making.
They play characters or project certain personas to their audience. If they all have the same personalities their content wouldn't work (if you like what they do)
These guys know how everything works. From financial to advertising etc. This is something that they have discussed thoroughly for a very long time between themselves. This doesn't just end up being made into a one day announcement on the spur of the moment
I want to forgive them but there us stuff here I don't quite believe. Watcher is making, minimum, $1.2 million per year. Probably double but that us minimum. If they cannot make ends meet with that then there is a problem in management that a simple switch of subscription won't fix. Something more than money is up here.
If they’re only pulling in 2 million a year 25 employees is an insane amount of people to carry, especially if they’re trying to pay a liveable wage as they claim. My dad’s business has about 8 million in revenue annually and there are between 21-23 employees depending on the season. They shouldn’t have hired friends and family as it usually leads to situations like this.
@@ranga1cat That is something I come back to as well. I mean... do they really need that many employees? Do they need a 2nd and 3rd camera person when a $5 Tripod from goodwill and iPhones could do it? Do they need a person to custom create graphics for them when there are several simple plug ins that could be used to get the same thing?
I hate the idea of a person being laid off now once they have a job. But it does seem to me that putting offices in LA and then hiring 25 people when they probably could have gotten away with offices outside the city and 5 employees is a Buzzfeed style move...
@@ranga1cat And I'll say this as well - it strikes me as VERY weird to plead poverty and then restart "Worth It" to spend thousands on food tasting.
Thing is, this doesn't really add up.
@@TimothyCollins This is still what gets me! Do you need money to cover your CURRENT costs? Or do you need MORE money to do MORE extravagantly budgeted shows? If they were in debt, this subscription fee would only cover what they're already in for with their 25 employees. The fact that what must be a large share of the money was already earmarked to hire the other Worth It guys back on and do the expensive stuff again means that this wasn't necessary for the current Watcher model, but to bankroll what Steven wants to do.
Likely they earn much more. Another channel estimated their income through UA-cam AdSense, sponsorship, Patreon and merchandise sales to about 300k dollars per month.
I'm leaning towards it being more of Steven's idea due to the fact he was more comfortable than Shane and Ryan during the last video ( leaving UA-cam ) and in this video it felt the total opposite of that I unfortunately was a fan and it will take more than a quick apology to win me back
I think they are all greedy and financially driven. I think Shane and Ryan regret it to a degree but it’s more to do with the backlash than that they actually feel bad as much. At the end of the day we have to remember that these are wealthy people they are not the common man they are out of touch.
Regarding their explanation that they didn’t want to sacrifice any creative control for advertisers: that is what being a content creator IS. That is what it takes. Them making this move was essentially them saying that they think they’re above having to do what every other major channel on UA-cam has to do. They thought they were better, they thought they were special. Special enough to warrant that instead of getting their money from large companies that can and will gladly pay for it, they could get it off their broke followers.
Thing is, even if they were honest, I just don't trust them anymore. The illussion of relatability has been lifted and it can't be brought back with an apology after several days of silence.
With the apology, I am even more sure that they lost one or more advertising contracts they had for UA-cam.
I doubt it, they’re exactly what advertisers look for long form content, within guidelines and even more so they actually make a skit for the ad.
Thank you again for the subtitles. So grateful!
It’s because Steven ISN’T sorry. He was money hungry from the get-go, he’s been riding on Shane and Ryan’s coat tails for years and this entire greedy idea was his. They need to fire Steven, downsize their team and production quality, and go back to the drawing board. Steven needs to go.
The fact that even Observe sees Steven as a problem solidifies my point that this is the downfall of their channel.
Honestly I never watch any of the “just Steven” stuff. Started to watch the ones with Shane/Ryan in the back yard reading ghost stories & drinking. At the time I kept thinking, feeling, who is the guy mixing the drinks & why is he there? This would be so much funnier if Shane was making the drinks! It always felt like a third wheel to me. Just my opinion. Thanks Observe for putting this update out so soon, love your channel!
THANK YOU FOR THE SUBTITLES!! I can't express it strongly enough!!
The fact Steven has fewer viewers than Ryan and Shayne, he's the squeaky wheel, and he's pretty much riding the coattails of others' success. I think he's always trying to figure out ways to increase his success without changing his content. He's been complaining about his drop in numbers since leaving Buzzfeed, but has done nothing to appeal to viewers.
In one of Watcher‘s podcasts, Steven has talked about how he has difficulty expressing his emotions - having to practice smiling for example, as it doesn‘t come naturally to him. So this could play into why his overall body language seems so off.
As far as I know, this can come from a lot of different places. Neurodivergence such as Autism for example, but also Trauma, Sociopathy or Psychopathy. But, speaking from experience as someone who‘s probably on the spectrum: You can have difficulty expressing your emotions and still be openly remorseful. You‘d have to be at least a little resentful to have difficulty expressing remorse.
Generally speaking: Symptoms of autism can be caused by being born with the condition, but also experiencing trauma, especially early childhood trauma. People on the spectrum however usually report having difficulty understanding other people’s body language and then reacting accordingly, while still being generally very empathetic. Psychopathy, as far as I understand, is something you‘re born with and Psychopaths usually report having an easy time performing emotions and empathy, even though they don‘t feel it. Whereas Sociopaths, whose symptoms are caused by trauma, more often struggle with this.
This is all very generalized and probably not entirely accurate, so take what I said with a grain of salt.
This! As someone who is also neurodivergent, some body language and nuances are lost on me! The idea of every single aspect of my movement getting analyzed (when I was the heavily hated scapegoat) is terrifying to me.
I've also wondered if he might be neurodivergent, but that wouldn't make him completely unable to show remorse. The only person I've ever seen "apologize" like this was a diagnosed sociopath. I'm not saying that applies to Steven, but it is an interesting observation.
I agree. He does have a flat affect, but he seems more annoyed than remorseful.
Let's stop letting people back away from responsibility because the MIGHT have autism. Doesn't matter what he might have what matters is what he does/did/will do.
@@NoThankUBeQuiet Let me clarify that I agree with you. No amount of psychological impairment is an excuse for harming others. Every person is still responsible for their own limitations and resulting shortcomings and has to ensure that these do not negatively impact others.
But my original comment also didn't imply anything to the contrary. I simply said that Steven's reported struggle with expressing emotions is another variable to be considered in analyzing his body language. And I did affirm that despite this variable, I still consider the analysis in the video to be very plausible. As I said, you'd have to be at least a little resentful to struggle to express remorse, even if you are on the spectrum/ have difficulty expressing emotion.
While I do think this whole thing was Steven’s idea, I will say that analyzing his nonverbal cues may be a bit harder because Steven does have a hard time “humaning” sometimes. If you watch their podcast he is often awkward and says stuff that is so off the cuff that I, a fellow awkward person, can’t help but giggle. I just hope they can get over this faux pas and continue because honestly I love them all.
Watching this apology made me think back to too many spirits. I'm starting to think that Steven's behavior during that was less of a skit and more a reflection of character. It's unfortunate that a majority of his shows also lean heavily into aspects of money. I hope this isn't true but it makes him come across as a person who uses manipulation to get their way. They plant seeds of "have you ever thought." or make you feel bad by saying things weren't fair to them. Hoping that isn't the case and they were all truly on board with it, even if that isn't great.
sadly even if they are genuine here they've lost too much good will I fear including from me. If the company is doing that poorly I can't imagine they'll bounce back from this, I believe it's only a matter of time before it goes under. It's a shame.
They all made the decision to create the streamer and get all of us to pay them. High egos and detachment from reality made them believe a lot will pay for the meager content of the streamer and those who couldn't / wouldn't pay, will be let behind, sayonara, arrivederci. They only did this "apology" video as damage control, when the number of people not paying the $6 and the number leaving YT subs were alarming to them. Had enough people paid for their streamer, we wouldn't have heard of them anymore. They aren't being kind to us, they had no option to revert their decision to avoid losing their business - for now.
So glad you did this!! 🎉
From the start, I had such a bad and rotten feeling from Steven...he just seems so insensitive, egotistical and hungry for money.
I don't like his overall energy at all and I really wonder how the vibe between everyone is behind closed doors...🤨
Edit: note also Steven didn’t say sorry at the end ( remember UA-cam helped him become “human” 😂 I doubt that tho) This apology is damage control, it’s not genuine, their true colors came out. While others may be quick to accept the apology it tarnished their likability for me. I can’t see them the same now. I found it telling that Steve said “I can bring the gang back!” and Ryan said “ oh yeah your buddies” that said it all for me! They were apparently complaining on having 25 people on board not wanting to lay them off but with your money they were going to bring even more on board for shows no one even wanted to see. The fun loving Shane and Ryan I knew are gone. Now it’s fake and gimmicky. Big pass, I no longer wish to support their channel the suckers can. get rid of Steven!
I’m genuinely curious if Steven’s upbringing as an Asian abroad has anything to do with his discomfort. I’m also a Malaysian Chinese living in the states and my SO has mentioned that I have difficulty expressing apologies. I hug myself and give reasons why I did wrong, offer solutions, but barely utter the words “I’m sorry”. It always feels more defensive though intention wise, I do feel sorry at times.
We just weren’t taught how to apologize. We were raised how to be humble, how to thank people, how to swallow frustration, but not much about apologies 🤷🏻♀️
Not defending Steven because I’m 85% sure the fiscal parts were his decision, but wondering his lack of expression in the “apology” might be cultural?
That’s a great consideration omg. I can’t speak to the cultural background myself, but you mentioned that a common thing for you during an apology is hugging yourself. Correct me if I’m wrong about why you do that, but I’m guessing you’re self-soothing. The complete lack of any evidence that he wanted or felt the need to self-soothe is why I’m not 100% sold on the alternate explanations for his behaviors that I’ve seen so far
Being taught to suppress emotions isn't healthy. Own up to your screw ups and apologize.
Ryan’s show, For Your Amusement, wasn’t getting advertisers. That’s why Ryan doesn’t own up. Steven Lim caught most of the blowback, but I don’t believe he should. They all had a stake in this decision, and Ryan looks like the only one who is reluctant to take accountability
imo no one seems to recognise that outside of Shane, other BF personalities found Ryan to be difficult to work with, without Shane he would not have half the success he enjoys now, as the audience are invested in their unique friendship, & it is that intantigible asset which makes their content watchable.
Steven is the ceo I’m not surprised he’s not happy with the compromise
What I don't get is that, if they planned to keep the PATREON. They sounded as they did.
These two watcher videos have been my favorite of yours to watch. I feel like I'm really experiencing what your saying, because I "know" these guys from the personalities they had on screen for so long. What your pointing out lines up with the picture of them I already had in my head. The stunt they pulled made me really distrust them, and it made me rethink ever supporting any complete stranger online again, no mater how good their content is. Its comforting to see the people they were on screen werent total lies.
While I like Shane and I believe he was sincere, I think the most affected and sincere one is actually Ryan. I think Shane was never full convinced about the platform, while Ryan believed it would work, and probably feels more guilty now, knowing how it ended. I won't even say a word about Steven.
I think Steven is likely to be somewhere on the ASD spectrum. He's talked before about struggling with coming across correctly and feeling uncomfortable in spotlight situations.
Also, it surprises me in all these analysis videos that no one really mentions how red raw their eyes are. When I first opened the video I thought they were actually crying on camera. They look like they spent the whole weekend sleepless and/or in tears.
I haven't been quiet about how I feel about Steven's behavior. But yeah, anybody throwing around slurs or sh*t is absolutely out of line and I'd be a wreck too.
You know they are actors right?
YES. Thank you for covering this. I really appreciated your first video, especially since it’s nice to hear a fan talk about this stuff since a lot of people talking about it didn’t watch their videos over the last 10 years like some of us
YES THANK YOU I TURNED POST NOTIFS ON FOR THIS VIDEO. Also I love your videos, Logan!
A huge frustration I had about the last video is the vague comment of improving the content. What does this improvement mean to them? What are quality/quantity improvements do they hope to accomplish with this new financial system for previously successful series?For a lot of people, they are already produced as well as possible, so it’s hard to imagine growth regarding video production.
They were able to start a company and grow to have 25 employees with the previous quality. With the income from merch, ads, brand deals, Patreon etc, it’s ignorant to say to their dedicated audience that “everything costs money.” While they are right, they were able to grow to this level without financial distress. It’s disappointing, even with their update. They have lost the trust with a large percentage of their audience.
And yes! I absolutely thought of you and kept my eye open for your analysis on these guys!
I’ve been WAITING for a body language breakdown! Thank you so much!!!😭💕
Can’t feel too sorry for them. They have gained a lot of skills in their watcher venture. It is a good resume item. They will get lions elsewhere in the industry albeit not as the stars but in the background.
Logan, you fucking rock. Was so hype to wake up to this video in my subs and loved every second. PS this is my favorite shirt you’ve worn so far!
I watched the apology literally in the first minute of it being released. And my first reaction was “Steven is reading this like he’s a hostage and means nothing he’s saying.” Thank you for affirming that.
Your coverage of the watcher issue brought me to your channel. I love the content and have been binging your videos. You have fantastic charisma and interesting content. I'm looking forward to watching all of your videos and following along as you progress. Thanks for what you do!
I just feel like these three are so talented and lovely as presenters, surely they should be able to accept contracts for presenting shows outside of Watcher to support the ongoing UA-cam content on their channel. There’s nothing stopping them from doing their own thing individually to help support costs
Yesss I was waiting for this one!
I was WAITING for this specific video. I've seen so many other people's video reactions to it, but THIS is the one I really wanted to watch 👀‼️💯💯💯
They're so concerned with money but im sure it cost quite alot to design, create and load videos to their streaming site... Now they lost subscribers too. Bad business decisions and horrible mismanaging of finances.
I felt like their apology was just back peddling and manipulative. "We didnt want to bring watcher to close, which would have happened." 😒
Also, am I the only one put off by Shane's smirk, almost chuckle when talking about the new stuff on the platform? @18:54 ish
As a Shaniac, I'm so sad this happened. It seems so off brand for Shane and Ryan. I LOVE your videos and input on breaking down verbal and nonverbal communication. So happy you analyzed their video, but again, very sad there even had to be a video.
I was waiting for this video to come out as soon as I saw the apology video. Well done, this was really good and helped explain what I felt when I watched the video
It does feel like Steven is pushing the "we're too good for UA-cam" line of thinking.
Ryan and Shane were too good for buzzfeed certainly, but never too good for UA-cam. UA-cam is where they've thrived, and will hopefully continue to thrive and connect with their fan base.
i can’t stand people defending the main 2 guys. they knew what they were doing. they are just as bad.
I have the feeling through all this that Shane was not in agreement with Steven and Ryan and is having an I told you so moment.
Definitely came across that way
Thankyou for making this! As I watched the video I was wondering if anyone would analyze their body language and give their input on the whole situation and you went along and did just that! Then uploaded it and explained in detail your thoughts, visual details, and analysis.
Thanks for all you do Logan, it’s nice seeing another fan of Watcher do a break down without being overly critical. It’s hard to watch them tear their own brand down when you’ve supported them from the very beginning, even on buzzfeed. I can’t justify further support when it’s hurt so many
I wonder if Steven just doesn’t emote much in general. I’m trying to remember if he’s seemed very emotive in other content I’ve seen him in and I can’t think of any examples where he had. - I know he’s mentioned about struggling to show emotions before so maybe that’s why he seems so stiff here?
I have a friend who doesn’t seem emote much nonverbally to most people but when you get to know him you can tell when he’s being genuine and when he’s not. I wonder if this is the same with Steven.
I’m just weary by the amount of people (not you personally but a huge chunk of Watcher fans) vilifying him so quickly when it may be the case that maybe he processes emotions and shows them differently and that’s why he seems to have such a differing reaction to the other two who have always been very emotive.
I feel bad for Steven. To me it seems really obvious from his previous content; The way we've seen him interact with other people on shows and the way Ryan and Shane talk about him and his contribution to watcher that he's most likely on the spectrum, just very high functioning. As someone that is in the same situation I know what it's like to have everyone naturally distrust that you care about them. I've had interactions where I've been on the verge of tears and then after every things finished someone has come up to me and been like, "wow you handled that so well! It didn't even phase you!" Meanwhile I'm internally shaking and ready to pass out. One of the main reasons I would often get in trouble at school was due to my "Lack of remorse" even though every time I accidentally said a mean thing or did something wrong it would be stuck in my head for days.
Also watching him explain an apology also hits home, To me I can see how stressed he is from his face and he seems extremely guarded to me. People on the spectrum tend to feel they have to over explain everything they do because they are so often miss read, and again as stated above people just assume you don't care because you aren't showing the proper nonverbal signs of remorse... this has come back to bite me more times than it's helped. And my heart breaks for Steven because to me, again it's obvious he's some where on the high functioning end of the spectrum.
TBH I watch videos like this specifically so I can mask better since whenever I ask someone why they think I was meaning something or felt a certain way, they don't know what to tell me other than, "Well it was just obvious". So These video's help me learn how to express with my body what I'm actually feeling.
this!! I feel this way about Steven but the hate comments are insane here. I hope your comment gets pinned so people will at least try to understand
Hello. Im also on the spectrum. Whereas i agree that sometimes people on the spectrum can be missinterpreted and i fully resonate with your anecdotes, i still dont condone Steven's actions. Not talking about this apology and how cold he feels, which i understand, the main issue people have with it are his decissions. He is the sole CEO and has been very manipulative in his deliveries (Shane and Ryan too, to an extent) That has nothing to do with being autistic.
On a different note. I have been trying to improve my masking my whole life to the point were i have forgotten how to be myself. I encourage you to not try to improve yours and focus on educating your enviroment. I know that we've learned that it's us against the world, but in reality socializing is an effort that goes both ways. Neurotipicals should be making an effort for us, not always the other way around.
Anyways, you're free to take my advice or leave it, of course. Im just a concerned fellow autistic. Have a good day!
Thank you for this! I have been watching all the podcaster episodes and have thought this about Steven since day 1. I've be shocked to see him get so much hate and this possibility to be overlooked by practically everyone since the first video. I also can relate so much to Steven and how he describes living life lol. I find it a genuinely uncomfortable experience! Lol.
@Asher-yw8uv I'm not sure if I missed it but does it say anywhere that Steven is the one who decided on everything? I'm shocked at the comments where most blame him. I'm thinking, yes he has the ceo title but that's just it, isn't it? A title.
They're partners and the other two aren't kids. They definitely have a say.
I’m not reading that novel
I do not trust Steven Lim. Period.
Them putting Shane in front is such a dirtbag move. They know we love him the most.
interesting line "we didn't want to lay off employees", aka we didn't want to do uncomfortable things every normal business has to at some point. Seems like they didn't want to have hard conversations with people they know well, so chose to do it to their audience instead. Letting people go is difficult and uncomfortable, but sometimes necessary. If you can't do it, don't run a business.
I waited to watch their apology because I knew you would be reacting to it. Because I'm pretty easily manipulated, I knew I would want your breakdown before making my own conclusions. I pay attention to body language but have no education or training beyond youtube videos and my years-old hyperfixation with the show Lie To Me. So it's really reassuring to see your breakdown because I definitely picked up on some things like Steven's pointing versus Shane's open palm gestures toward the camera, but Shane's defensiveness with his no shakes is something I would not have understood without your explanation. Love your content, thanks for always keeping it real!
interestingly enough, the setup resembles the try guys ned crisis video, I don't count it as an apology because those who remained had nothing to apologize for. so pre-scripted was perfect for that, it was group's inner crisis with legal levels. This video felt like a very wrong style
THIS. People keep comparing the two as if they're both apology videos, etc. and I'm just like...but the TGs weren't apologizing, they were doing damage control on the PR side and leveling with their audience where they were legally (and business-wise) allowed to about the upcoming changes they had to make because the OTHER guy/former member effed up. Watcher made their bed themselves and then had to deal with the consequences/apologize for *their own actions*
That being said, I think that for scripting, they probably pulled it off better than most who script their apologies. It definitely feels a bit off, but is no where near as bad as it can get
I don't make a habit out of watching apology videos, what other style would have fit better, in your opinion?
Good morning, Mr. Observe!! I'm starting off Thursday with a video!
I'm new here but have you ever considered doing master classes for actors on your members channel? Your insights and notions related to the entirety of delivering a message or physical expressions of emotions is something I would gladly pay for to learn more! ❤
I knew there would be backtracking with their choice to jump ship but I didn't expect it to be this quick! You make some excellent points I definitely think Steven is calling the shots and is doubling down on wanting to make this work no matter what. I still think a split of some sort of these three is coming. On a different note I would LOVE to hear your take on the mess that is going down on Season 17 of Marries At First Sight. Not the whole season per se but the reunion episodes specifically! It's like they did the season and then everything exploded and now they're all pointing fingers and calling each other liars and I have no idea who to believe or what is going on. Would be great to get some insight on their body language! Thanks!
i've been WAITING for this one
There is a petition somewhere to get Steven to step down as the CEO, personally I feel he ruined the Watcher franchise.