Undiscovered Country has long been my favourite Star Trek movie. Also, pretty sure Kirk is a veteran of the Klingon war, which would've happened when he was a much younger officer. Plus all the times they tangled throughout the original series. David's death either pushed him over the edge or is just a convenient excuse for already lingering hatreds.
People want to crow so much about "Wrath of Khan," and I always want to tell them, "WoK is a great film, no doubt about it, but it's not the best Star Trek film. It's not even the best TOS film." For my money, "First Contact" and "Undiscovered Country" are tied at the top, with "Wrath of Khan" and "Voyage Home" tied for a very close second. Then "Beyond" is right there in the hunt, but everything else is a notch or two (or more) below.
I think the Peter Pan quote was a great way to end the run. It's the perfect lead-in to that shot of the Enterprise "riding off into the sunset" while calling back to a story about eternal youth. Kirk struggled with middle age and desk duty in the Wrath of Khan. Now he's allowed to end his adventure on his own terms, with a blend of acceptance and nostalgia. There is no fan service to beat us over the head with call backs and references. Merely a subtle hint of the youthful, adventurous spirit that still resides within him as he flies of into retirement is enough for the audience to understand his emotional state.
I feel that if you just take the Enterprise B opening as a separate movie, it is an excellent way to kill off Kirk... I also think the part all the way up to the D crash, as a separate movie, was pretty good... Its all the Nexus stuff that just totally sours the whole thing for me...
@@jacobdrj101 (Kris Bluth) I actually enjoy Generations more than a lot of fans, but I agree that the Nexus is plot-convenience gobbledy-gook. It's nothing but a device to get Picard and Kirk together and is a total mess when it's not doing that.
Here's the thing about Uhura's insight though. The ship outfitted with special equipment for studying gaseous anomalies was Excelsior, not Enterprise. As I understand, it was a last-minute production change to give the inciting Praxis encounter to Sulu.
Colonel Worf was the right way to do fanservice. He made sense, and you didn't actually need to know anything to see what was going on. On top of that, he was his own character, not simply, "hey, look, it's Worf's grandfather." The new creative team needs to take notes.
Oh please, if the Picard writers "took note" of what the fans wanted there would have been dozens more pointless cameos and memberberries, no matter how nonsensical it would be for them to show up. For the rest of new trek, at least the callbacks and cameos are either unobtrusive (like Worfs grandad) or they do something substantial with them.
The revelation that the talks would be held on Khitomer is another graceful TNG tie-in. Although I was expecting an actual depiction of the Khitomer Massacre referenced so often in early TNG seasons.
@@thork6974the problem with doing the massacre was that it happened roughly 20 some years before tng, where the movie took place between 30 an 50 years after the movie.
@@alejandronopasanada5302 The deluge of garbage writing and higher-ups forcing their ideas/ideals into the mix in recent years has certainly been rampant, but it's not like there _isn't_ anything good being written or released by major studios. However, it does seem as though television has overall been getting the better scripts and creative minds who are willing to take risks. Fargo on FX, which was created and is primarily written by Noah Hawley (who was given the job to write and direct the next Trek film before the pandemic hit -- his script involved a brand new crew on a new ship encountering a virus in space, so it was scrapped), has been consistently great (if at times wildly ambitious, i.e. season four) since its premiere in 2014 and its upcoming fifth season looks like it'll be quite good as well. He also created a show called Legion in 2017 that ran for three seasons and is quite possibly the most unique and "out there" series to have aired since the premiere of Twin Peaks. Due to his work on both, I'm very excited for his upcoming Alien series; I genuinely feel that if there's anyone who can "right the ship" in regards to that franchise, it's him. I would've loved to see his take on Star Trek, but alas, it wasn't meant to be. Perhaps someday he can develop a Trek series instead. Better Call Saul is another example of incredible and consistently excellent writing, as well as how to do "fan service" without cheapening or undermining the story it's trying to tell, even though it ended last year.
The finale of Voyager has one redeeming moment for me after Kim proposes his insane plan to Paris: Kim “Where’s your sense of adventure?” Paris “I left it in that nebula and I’m NOT going back for it!” Gives me a good laugh every time.
I was 12 when Star Trek VI came out. I had just started attending a new school, and was in this period where I didn't have many friends. I had never been a popular kid at my old school, and that trend continued at my new school. I remember waiting in line for the premier of STVI with my parents at the local shopping center. I saw a couple of other kids from my school there, and I worked up the nerve to go say hi. That was how I found my people in my new school. One of them became my best friend, and still is today. We even had a Star Trek podcast once upon a time. I loved STVI, and still do. Next to TWoK it's my favourite Trek movie, and the two often trade spots depending on my mood any given day.
I rewatched TOS, TAS and the TOS movies earlier this year, and I teared up a bit during Kirks final log entry at the end of Star Trek VI. It was an amazing capstone, and I loved it.
It always bugged me that this movie was the one and only instance where Klingons had Pepto Bismol flowing through their veins. I wish Star Trek kept that canon. Aside from helping the film avoid an “R" rating, it was an important tidbit for the deleted “Scooby Doo" twist at the end.
@@richardvinsen2385 I think TPJ was referring to the small energy cannon that was used to shoot the Klingons and chemically altered their blood to the color of Pepto Bismol. 😏
The Klingon FMV game (titled simply 'Star Trek: Klingon') also had purple-ish blood. As far as I know, it's also canon. It certainly felt like a full-budget production for its time.
Klingons as a race have really bad acid reflux. The crew got wicked bad heartburn from the human food at the banquet. They had chugged pepto by the gallon when the two attackers beamed in.
Let's not forget the really iconic credits with the main cast signatures... It really was a perfect send off despite the Scooby Doo ending. Nothing wrong with a little camp in a trek movie.
i mean scooby doo is a classic for a reason. Also its theatralic enough to fit. plus it makes sense, they had to expose the conspirasy somehow and theatralic, why not.
Way back in my college science-fiction films class, I did a paper comparing and contrasting Meyer's ST II and VI. There are a lot of thematic similarities (insert "It's like poetry; it rhymes" joke here). Both deal with the crew coping with growing older in a changing galaxy, and coming out the other side with a renewed sense of youth. (In II, Kirk explicitly states, "I feel young," and in VI, he quotes Peter Pan, the boy who never grew up.) One thing that fits with some of what you talked about - and maybe I've been reading too much into this for the 30 years since I wrote that paper - is that if you add an "E" to the end of the primary antagonist's name, the crew spends the movie learning how to overcome the fear and obstacles that are put in their way by change. I don't know if that was intentional in the writing of the movie or just a happy accident, but it struck me all those years ago and has stayed with me.
The main reason I find VI to be a better Star Trek film that II is that its bigger theme of moving past one's prejudices for the betterment of all is a core concept that, in my mind, makes Trek Trek. Whereas I find one of II's bigger themes to be about living one's life so one's past doesn't come back to haunt you, which is one that doesn't *need* to be told in the Star Trek universe.
Its also having all that charactr moments and humor, but still nails the theme with good character arcs. plus kirk the klingon hatr being the ambasator of peace, goated on by spock, is so good. And even uhara gets done justice. And that tey ar a product of thir time but even klingon hater kirk can become the ambassor of unity and peace. Honstly di think archr, i cant ddeside if kirk or archer has the better arc there.
Klingon law apparently doesn't have a problem with conflict of interest...If the guy prosecuting you also arrested you for the crime, there's probably a liiiiittle bias there.
Plus, we got our first introduction to Ensign Tuvok, who would have guessed the stoic black vulcan background character (the first in franchise history) would become a main character in a future series.
I wish that someone could have made a series about Captain Sulu and his crew. That would have been amazing. He was already such a great "round" character; seeing him grow and learn ... ah well...
I know people get weird about Spock quoting Sherlock Holmes as "an ancestor of mine," but the actual person who wrote that was Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who very well could be an ancestor of Amanda Grayson. Or maybe Sherlock Holmes is a real person in Trek and Data is playing fan fiction with the life of an actual dude. Or maybe "is Sherlock Holmes a real person?" is a weird question to ask when the guy that says it is half-alien.
It’s a joke. At this point Spock is joking. He’s reconciled his humanity and understands humor. It’s not to be taken literally. See also “old Vulcan proverb, only Nixon could go to China.”
there is also a lot of evidence to support the theory that Sir Author Conan Doyle may have been none other than Jolly Jack...widely known as Jack the Ripper...After all Jack the Ripper did write that one day men will look back and say I gave birth to the 20th century and Holmes certainly did just that...inspired the creation Spock and Data as well perhaps one could be bold to say that Ripper gave birth not to just the 20th century but to the 23rd century as well as the 24rth and the early 25th century as well
ST VI not only brought closure to TOS for me, but it also brought closure to the Cold War in a way. I was born the year TOS was canceled so my first memories were of it in syndication while at the same time the Cold War hung over our way of life. I came to see that the Klingons were the interpretation of the Soviets and it was nice to see a futuristic society that still clung to hope. When I graduated high school I joined the Navy and was immersed in that Cold War mindset for a time, until one day the Berlin wall fell and while on deployment to the Mediterranean our president met with Soviet Premier Gorbachev and glasnost came to be. I recall there being a sense of accomplishment and when I went home ST VI came out soon afterward. As a child I was always made aware of how TOS was topical for the 1960s and much like that, ST VI brought the TOS era to a close in a similarly topical way.
So important to let the original cast set up Klingons-as-allies on screen! This was the first Trek movie I saw in the theaters, a friend's birthday. I must have been 9 or 10. I don't think I was sophisticated enough to even follow the plot very well, but it was still a satisfying watch, all us little nerds were buzzing about Chang's final moment walking out of the theater. My favorite Trek film, for sure.
I go back and forth on if I like The Undiscovered Country or The Wrath of Khan is my favorite. Honestly, 2-4 and 6 forms a tight unit if you watch them without stopping for 5. TMP doesn't really fit in with that story arc but is good in its own right. (The Directors Cut is good anyway)
@@ATADSP Wrath of Khan is great, Star Trek 4 Voyage Home was a fun action adventure, Star Trek 6 Undiscovered Country was topical and deep, and Star Trek 8 First Contact had everything we loved about TNG era without being too draggy.
I think The Undiscovered Country was my first experience with Star Trek, besides the 2009 JJ Abrams movie (and a few assorted TNG episodes I would watch at my Grandmother's house when we'd go up for Christmas) so it holds a pretty special place in my heart. A little later on, my dad and I wpuld always sit down every Friday or Saturday night to watch some Star Trek TOS on MeTV. I love your breakdown of these ST episodes They're funny, well put together, and just generally fun to watch.
@@seantlewis376Not really I was pretty darn young at the time, and both my dad and mom always made reference to tge Klingons or Borg as the enemies of the Federation. I ended up getting more into ST as I got older, but for the most part just didn't really question things.
My personal headcanon is that Romulan Ambassador Nanclus and, more broadly, the Romulan Empire (Tal Shiar) were the originators/instigators of the conspiracy to prevent peace talks in the first place. Nanclus has almost nothing to do in the film except delivering a cryptic line and getting arrested at the end, but his inclusion is a perfect nod toward the type of Romulan behavior depicted in TNG (the Redemption two-parter came out the same year as ST VI) and later in Enterprise's fourth season. I mean, Romulans do seem to default to "let's execute a secret plot to divide our enemies and keep them from uniting against us" (only to have said plot fail spectacularly), and through that lens Star Trek VI could easily be viewed as just another attempt. What are your thoughts?
Absolutely. And totally in character for the Romulans. The Romulans have ALWAYS been trying to set the Federation and Klingons against each other. The Romulans didn't necessarily have to start the conspiracy, but they certainly would've done their best to further it if they discovered it.
Make sense, but the Romulans met their match in the 24th century with adversaries like the Dominion and Federation's own secret intelligence agency, Section 31. Of course, I think out of all the scheming powers, the one that probably had the most lasting impression on the Romulans is the Cardassians via Garak's ploy that caused them to enter the Dominion War, thus destabilizing their political, military, and social institutions to the point where they couldn't evacuate their own citizens off Romulus, their government was infiltrated by Federation agents, and ultimately collapsed their nation state. While the Romulans like to use the ploy of "Divide and Conquer", I prefer the Cardassian adjustment to their own gambit.
I believe most of the politicians were originally supposed to have a bigger role in this, but they were all cut back for time and to favour the crew's story.
Undiscovered Country is my low key favorite film in the series. Wrath of Khan is certainly a favorite and objectively amazing, but the dark tone and music of Undiscovered Country made it amazing. I always felt like this was the most adult Star Trek film, then and now. Ah! And I'm so glad you mentioned the score. The overture during the credits for this film is *incredible* and one of my favorite pieces of film music. It's so different from previous scores, and yet fits the film perfectly. Again, similar to James Horner creating an entirely original theme and score for WoK. Excellent stuff.
All of the Best ST films (II, IV, VI) fixed disappointing stories of the prior very odd film (I, III, V). The ONLY "Good Line" of V, for Me was the vinegar in Kirk's koolaid: "Wait. What does God need a ship for? My Ship?!!!"
Thinking about what a pivotal role he played, I now kind of want to know how Gorkon is viewed by TNG-era Klingons, like how he's taught in their schools.
probably as a great klingon. reformer and one that saved the empire. because without gorkon opening up peace with the feds... well the klingons would've been dead by 2343. (50 years of air mentioned in the starfleet briefing scene)
@OpinionsNoOneCaresAbout , ... I love your screen name, it's the only thing you're self-aware about. Otherwise *you don't know what the hell you're talking about* , McCoy said ""I'd pay real money IF HE would shut up"". *Get your hearing checked already*
The thing that I like most about Undiscovered Country is that it explains how the peace is achieved which was alluded to all the way back in the original series episode that established the Klingon neutral zone(because of the Organians) and the pilot of next-gen which had debuted four years earlier( with a junior officer on the bridge who was a Klingon). So it would not only connects first series to the new series but it also was eluded to years before
This movie had 2 things keeping it from being perfect: 1. They defeated Chang by a random idea from Spock. It would've more thematically salient if they would've defeated him by working with a Klingon character. 2. They invented a ship that can fire while cloaked and then all future writers ignored it.
I loved VI as a kid because General Chang was an excellent villain, Sulu was awesome as Captain, and the final battle is so fun to watch. The political scenes were there and I understood they were important (mainly setting up where characters would be in the plot later), but the action stuff was fun! As an adult, I watch it more FOR those scenes that I skimmed over so much as a wee lad because, like II, it shows the age of our heroes and showcases how imperfect they all are BUT that they work to overcome those imperfections, those little flaws that grow to destroy who we are if we don’t nip them in the bud, to uphold not only the tenants of the Federation that they serve but to be BETTER people than the caricatures they would become in these difficult times. I grew up with the Klingons as the enemy. I then saw how people can choose to change and grow and try to make the “Undiscovered Country” of the future better for those that come after. It really showed me the optimism of Star Trek - no, the world is not perfect. We aren’t perfect. But we can TRY to be better. We can work together to BE better. No matter how many General Changs or Admiral Cartwrights there may be to hold us back, we have the ability, nay the responsibility, to overcome those biases and help those who need it, to look past borders and cultures to see those who aren’t “us” as people that deserve the same respect and care we do. Nicholas Meyer and Leonard Nimoy truly crafted not only a classic piece of cinema worthy of saving, but absolutely the best send off and finale to a crew we could’ve asked for
You brought back some good memories here! I played hooky the day Star Trek VI premiered. It was my freshman year of high school. My older brother took me to the theater for the first showing of the day. And the line around the building was truly a sight to see! This was an event film in the best way. And, when I got back to school the next day, I was berated by my math teacher for taking a sick day … just to see Star Trek VI. But it was worth it. ;-)
The Undiscovered Country was the first Star Trek film I saw in the cinema. I was recovering from surgery, running a fever, and supposed to be in bed taking it easy, but no way was I going to miss this movie I'd been waiting for. It's hard to convey to younger people just what it felt like for the Cold War to finally be ending and to have that mirrored up on the big screen.
Yeah, but Meyer's other entry was Star Trek II, and I've never been a big fan of that one. (I'll never miss an opportunity to push that one particular terrible opinion on other people.)
I'm in the same boat... Not a TWoK fan... Not a hater either... But 6... 6 is a masterpiece... And one that took me until adulthood to really fully appreciate...
The Undiscovered Country was the last bow on stage for most of the old original crew in the world of Star Trek. One last adventure with the old generation with a bittersweet taste, since all good things do come to an end. For several movies and episodes the crew of the classic Enterprise have stood with us. The ending of this movie was a good farewell to the old crew.
It still frustrates me every time when Uhura points out the equipment they have for charting gaseous anomalies. The opening of the movie is on the Excelsior, where _they_ are on a mission specifically to chart gaseous anomalies. The Enterprise wasn't on any mission before this current one, and has no reason to have that equipment on board. I've never seen it verified, but my gut says that in a previous draft, Excelsior found the cloaked ship, and together they defeated it with the Enterprise, but Shatner just couldn't handle not being the one who delivered the revealing blow, and so it was re-written to what we see on screen, despite it making no sense.
Close. Shatner insisted that the Enterprise not be "rescued" by the Excelsior. There's an argument to be made that it wouldn't have been as interesting to see two previously unknown engineers on the Excelsior fit the torpedo with the new sensor suite, as opposed to *Spock and Bones* doing surgery on a live torpedo on the loading track.
Undiscovered Country is a masterpiece. I don’t mind Easter eggs, but I feel like they should be a reward for the long term watchers, fleeting references that a new viewer wouldn’t feel disconnected from.
I'm a TOS fan from the get-go. I watched the first run series when it premiered (yes I'm THAT old) and haven't missed an episode since-- including all spin-offs and associated movies. The Undiscovered Country is all you say and properly a fitting send-off of the TOS cast. Just a couple personal reflections from seeing this movie its debut week in theaters. Firstly one of my favorite lines is Sulu commanding "Fly her apart then!" and secondly that gorgeous score which at the end of the film-- coupled with the signatures of each of the original cast scrolling across the screen pushed my emotions over the edge. I don't know if any other movie before has used the signatures of the cast over the final moments before the credits roll or not, but it was a perfect and dignified nod to each of these actors who has brought their characters to life over the course of time.
Steve, while I am grateful you graciously allowed those of us who loved Picard S3 to have our opinion, I strongly disagree with you - not on your assessments of STVI - but on your dismissal of Picard S3. But just as you did, I shall permit you to have your opinion! Thanks for the video. I’m a loyal viewer of your reviews with your friend and even when I disagree with you (which is often) I enjoy your videos. Keep doing them. Who knows? Maybe someday you’ll like something without any quibbles. Unlikely tho, right?
God I love this movie. I genuinely think it ties with Voyage Home for best Trek film. Voyage Home is funny. Undiscovered Country is BRILLIANT. It's intelligent, insightful, relies heavily on character relationships without being fanservicey, gives us an ending for the Original Series that feels fulfilling. It's everything a Trek movie should be.
Christopher Plummer was AWESOME in this. Also the "deleted scene" with Colonel West/Odo/ReneO was a bad choice, it should have been left in, like the removed scene where Peter Preston in TWOK was Scottys nephew... these were sad omissions, they both added alot of meaning and depth with these deleted items included. Frankly, same with the TWOK deleted dialogue scene in the shuttle with the crew going to the Enterprise that Sulu is revealed by Kirk as being impending-captain-promoted by Kirk's recomendation...knowing that Sulu still went through all he did in Search for Spock and Voyage Home, such loyalty and selflessness.
Great movie. I still maintain that "All Good Things..." is the best finale but Star Trek VI is a very close second. Also, I feel compelled to mention, technically Star Trek: Generations is the series finale for TOS. :p
TNG already had an excellent finale - All Good Things. Picard Season 3 as a finale for TNG is completely unnecessary. I don't mind a bit of fanwank in my entertainment. There are even some plotlines that can only exist with a copious amount of fanwank. But a mainstream finale isn't the time and the place for it. That's for tieing themes used across multiple years together into something that's celebrating the broad strokes, rather than appealing only to the hardest of hardcore fans. Fanservice as part of that - Maybe. Depends on how it's done. Going into fanwank territory? Please don't. (Fanwank, incidentally, was a term coined by Doctor Who novelist Craig Hinton who... Well, he wrote Quantum Archangel, a story that involves some obscure bits of expanded universe continuity as a central point, including the idea that instead of two guardians of time there are six, the azure guardian of dreams is the celestial toymaker, the red guardian of justice is a future version of the Doctor. He then ties that in with string theory's conception of six additional spatial dimensions (adding in a second dimension of time into the mix because Doctor Who is weird) - He doesn't appear to have coined it as a negative is what I'm saying, though in coining it, and in particular naming it _that_ , he definitely acknowledged it wasn't to everyone's taste.)
Steve, I would have been content with you just giving us the movie's plot and paralleling it to the Cold War. It's all stuff known (and comfortable) to those of us who have been watching Trek since TOS aired on NBC. But then, in the second half, when you relate to us that *this* is how you close a series, by abjuring fan service and instead providing us a truly new story that makes great use of beloved characters, well, this was something I had never really thought about (even though your opinion of fan service is hardly something unfamiliar to viewers of your videos). I have loved ST:6 since it came out, and now I have an intellectual framework to explain to people who Klingon to one lesser movie or another as their favorite, that even if they can't agree that this is the best ST movie, it is the best finale in the franchise. Great video, sir.
I agree this was both the best send off of TOS and passing the torch to the next Gen, so why ruin it with Generations. I mean they could have made that film TNG only...no tie in’s with TOS. I would have been fine with that.
Does referencing David's death count as fanservice? How would you write it to show Kirk's bias without any fanservice moments? I am going to make an educated guess that it isn't fanservice you have an issue with; it's fanservice that doesn't really service the plot. If so, I am generally in agreement with you, though, a few Easter eggs sprinkled throughout aren't bad. I never really thought of this movie as the series finale for TOS, but, you definitely make a good case for it.
@@birdbrainiac Merritt Butrick had already died in real life (in 1989), so the scene with his photo memorializes him as well as motivating Kirk's behavior.
One other aspect of Star Trek VI is the completion of Kirk's character arc. It started in Star Trek II when Kirk's son is introduced and is killed at the hands of Klingons in Star Trek III and Kirk is hunted in Star Trek V. And it is brought to a close when Kirk recognizes his prejudice, comes to terms with it. For me the themes of reconciliation, personal development, the idea that people can come to terms with their weaknesses and shortcomings and change for the better are what Star Trek is all about.
There is something about those 80s Trek movies that is totally lost now. I believe it's they were more willing to take risks. Star Trek II is arguably the most fan servicey of the TOS movies for including Kahn as the villain. But it wasn't done in a way that winking at the audience. In fact, WOTK feels like it's truly a story about coming to terms with aging and the consequences of recklessness in the wrapper of a simple revenge plot.
Steve when mentioning the soviet union you mentioned it had been around neqr 70 years. I'm surprised when discussing the C&C meeting you didn't reference Spock mentioning these talks would put an end to almost 70 years of unremitting hostility.
I know this is a controversial opinion but my favorite Star Trek movies are the search for Spock the final frontier generations and first contact and my favorite Star Trek shows are deep space nine and Voyager
well said, and this is not debatable. The TOS movies never tried to rehash their greatest hits, instead they told new stories about this crew and developed the characters in interesting ways.
I thought the fight between Kirk and Martia shape-shifting into Kirk was reminiscent of the episode _Whom Gods Destroy_ (even the name "Martia" is similar to Marta).
ST:VI has always been my #1, and that's knowing the minuses - the scene with Uhura and the translations - I was so disappointed by that -and I think Ms Nicols said herself that she was very disappointed with it as well. I was very pleased to see that they 'rectified' that in the JJ Trek where Uhura - even as a cadet - knew 'all' the various Klingon dialects... Also, Chekov being the Keystone Cops in some scenes. But even with these 'character deficiencies', this was such a lovely movie that implied without - as you said - directly referencing - all good things about the 'mythos' of Star Trek: TOS
Yeah, you know? I definitely agree that Star Trek VI was one of the absolute best of the films in the whole of the Star Trek franchise. Star Treks 2-4 and 6 were excellent films (though 4 had some flaws comparatively in terms of its storytelling, though a lot more "classically funny" moments.). 2 and 3 were in a way an end of an era, and 6 was a beautifully built narrative that reflected the times it was written in as a political narrative. As the Cold War ends, we watch an optimistic and hopeful end to Cold War policies and the ever present Klingon/Federation conflict. A pity real life was complicated, but cyclical history is what it is. Really, it had some of the best and most solid writing of any of the films in general. I do think there's been other excellent films since this time in the world, but this one was just .... *chef's kiss*. I don't hate modern writing, but there were moments when the original material was uniquely perfect, and this was just one of those. It remains to this day my favorite Star Trek movie.
I find Star Trek VI to be the most watchable of the original 6 movies. II & IV are great but if I just want to see some ST movie, VI is the I watch. Thx for a great video.
This movie is just a huge moment of growth for Kirk. It shows that he wasn't just "Torn shirt macho" Kirk, but someone who can actually realize that a long held belief is wrong, and he can at least start to move in a healthier direction.
This is probably my favourite Star Trek movie. One of my favourite bits in it is a subtle piece of acting by Nichele. She has a look of disgust on her face after ending the call to the Klingon border patrol. On its own it's a fine in character bit, but knowing the background of the production adds another layer in that she HATED the scene. She thought it was out of character for her, the COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER, to not already be fluent in Klingon, and that look is her showing her real feelings about the scene.
"If there is to be a Brave New World, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it." was incredibly prescient. The problem is a lot of the people who were just coming into positions of power when that brave new world arrived are still clinging to power, refusing to learn and adapt, and trying to bring back the "good old days". The "good old days" were never as good as advertised and only seen as good when viewed through rose-tinted glasses. And the same is true of fandom, not just this fandom but any fandom. Quite a lot of fans are the same as those clinging to power hoping to bring back the good old days. They want more of the familiar, the comfortable. They cheer when a work goes all-in on nostalgia pandering, delivering them - as Fry would put it - the same thing they've seen a thousand times before. Not only did ST:PIC S3 pull everyone out of retirement so that they could go do the same things they were doing 30 years ago, it cribbed the finale from both the rebooted Battlestar Galactica and from Return of the Jedi. I wonder how many of those cheering the RotJ style dive into the Death Star-sized Borg Cube were sneering at The Force Awakens for having yet another Death Star Trench Run.
I am a BIG fan of this movie. In fact after it came out, it was my favorite Star Trek, just some time ago surpassed by Wrath of Khan and that just barely. Watching Steve's video essay now ... please do it justice, Mr. Shives! edit. So. Of course, The Undiscovered Country has some plot holes, some things which I don't like. And no-one mentions Spock's mind-melt of Valeris as unwanted intrusion? Still, with the shortcomings of its time, this movie has its place in our time. It is of course not about a journey to the stars. It is about the journey to ourselves.
Star Trek VI is a very rare occurrence. It was the right time and place that allowed Leonard Nimoy and Nick Meyer to make a film like this without the reflexive fan-service. The problem with Picard Seasons 1-2, and to a lesser extent for 3, is that Patrick Stewart really didn't have the pull Nimoy did, or a successful partner who was a director/producer within the franchise to back him up like Nick Meyer did. Rick Berman rans things meant the TNG cast had less influence than Shatner or Nimoy did in the TOS film era. Nimoy had the power he did because not only was he the indispensable character but had a very strong track-record as a successful director in his own right in and out of Trek. More importantly, because Roddenberry died, Nimoy and Harve Bennett were the de facto property owners for the TOS franchise. So they *were* Kurtzman at the time. Today, Patrick Stewart doesn't control the TNG era franchise and is not much more than an actor while Kurtzman and his cronies control all aspects of Trek.
good point. if you want to control the franchise or guide it the way you want... you better have a hand in the production/directing. because as an actor... well they don't call actors dancing monkeys for no reason.
So if Star Trek 6 is an allegory about the end of the cold war, then clearly the explosion of the moon Praxis is a stand in for the explosion in the Chernobyl nuclear power plant... oh...you beat me to it.
I think what puts this movie above WOK for me is that, despite WOK being a fun yarn of a story and brilliantly put together, this movie is more Star Trek at its core. A classic tale of revenge is nice and fun, but ST6 brings in a humanist/societal connundrum that is deeper, not JUST 'stop the bad guy'. Both ST2 and ST6 operate by bringing the past into play for better or worse, but where ST2 says 'Whoopsie looks like we were careless with our younger years', ST6 says 'its never too late to move forward' which kind of completes the arc and nicely frames those human arcs in a typically ST societal allegory where the journey of hour heroes mirrors the journey of the Federation as a whole. Also ST6 looks better. The lighting/framing/general film stock quality is cleaner and more cinematic than the budget-constrained ST2 where the rough around the edges lighting and sound editing can feel a bit dated. I love Cliff Eidelman's score for this one. Used to listen to it a lot back in the day. But, I doooo wonder how cool it would have been if they'd gotten Horner or Goldsmith. Would it have really been a bad thing to hear the more famous trek themes in this movie? I think it would have really brought home the character beats without feeling like fan service. For all the problems with the Star Wars sequels, nobody ever seems to complain that John WIlliams came back and used all the old music in addition to new stuff. Word on the street is that Indy5 is a very mixed bag, but everyone agrees that the music is one of the highlights.
This was my first Star Trek film I saw in the cinema at 9 years old. My Grandma took me to see it . It was amazing! I don't remember even blinking much .
I remember seeing this at the cinema as a 6 year old. But I remember coming away thinking "if only the tension had been repeatedly cut by someone making a dead-pan sarcastic comment or a teenager exclaiming 'OMG it can fire while cloaks, f**king awesome'". Ahem ^^
I was mildly confused by the comparison against other finales, because in the UK “the shit” means excellent. But I already knew you don’t like those examples! So that’s an interesting linguistic lesson.
When this came out, there were rumors that Capt. Kirk was gonna be killed off in this movie. The trailers on tv showed Kirk getting vaporized, so I went into this thinking that not only was it the last of the original cast Star Trek films, that I would see Kirk die and that's how the franchise would end.
The way this movie honours the TOS cast and what Star Trek stands for better, in my mind, makes it the best Trek film. As it's smartly written enough to give enough context to the characters' motivation within it (like reminding us of David's death) I also, oddly enough, use it often as the on-ramp to get friends into Star Trek. Thank you for your solid, well thought-out and passionate essay.
Interesting. I'm wondering how the humor plays, 40 years after it was released. Did you find it funny? At the time it was widely seen as the funniest thing Trek had ever produced.
@@BS-vx8dgI had a great time watching it, coming from someone who struggles sometimes to appreciate TOS after growing up with modern production style. “Do you like Italian” was hilarious. They found too many excuses to fit the word “wessel” into the script and I sense the actor doesn’t love it. “Doctor gave me a pill and I grew a new Kidney!” had me in stitches, though. I can’t think of another joke in the franchise right now that has a better setup/execution.
Excellent video. Watching your reviews of Picard s3, the one thing in particular I disagreed with you on was the use of familiar musical themes. While I agree that was overdone in Picard s3, this is something that helps connect me emotionally. I remember being very frustrated in the theater, seeing Generations and not really getting a hint of the original theme until the end of the end credits. I'm sorry, but when any Federation starship named Enterprise first shows up on screen, I think you get to have that theme play.
Nicholas Meyer indicates on his audio commentary for TUC that his intention was to imply that Spock (through his mother) was a descendant of Holmes. (Meyer is a huge Holmes fan who has written novels and made a movie about him.) Some Star Trek fans are uncomfortable with this idea because it seems inconsistent with the depiction of Holmes as a fictional character in TNG, but there are bigger continuity issues than that in Star Trek. The more interesting question, to me, is when and with whom Holmes had a child...
It's my favorite Star Trek film, but the only thing that has always bugged me is Spock's leap in logic that the uniforms must be on the Enterprise. Surely, someone else than the assassins could have altered the databanks while they beamed back to the BoP to het rid of the uniforms... or they had the uniforms and never set foot on the E in the first place...
I sure hope not. TNG has defined this franchise’s direction for far too long. It was already providing diminishing returns back in the 2000s, but now that people have finally gotten a proper post-NEM send off, we just need to finally stop for good. If we must revisit anything in TNG down the road, let Celia Rose Gooding head a series about Uhura as captain and make Ensign Picard a minor character there but other than that….nope, I’m done with it.
Fondness for this movie grew over time. I remember seeing this with my buddies in the theater when it premiered. They were so fat at this point we dubbed this movie, "The Undiscovered Country Chicken".
Undiscovered Country has long been my favourite Star Trek movie.
Also, pretty sure Kirk is a veteran of the Klingon war, which would've happened when he was a much younger officer. Plus all the times they tangled throughout the original series. David's death either pushed him over the edge or is just a convenient excuse for already lingering hatreds.
Indeed, only Nixon could go to China.
Yeah, Kirk wasn't too fond of the Klingons, to be sure.
It's my favorite of the original series cast films.
People want to crow so much about "Wrath of Khan," and I always want to tell them, "WoK is a great film, no doubt about it, but it's not the best Star Trek film. It's not even the best TOS film." For my money, "First Contact" and "Undiscovered Country" are tied at the top, with "Wrath of Khan" and "Voyage Home" tied for a very close second.
Then "Beyond" is right there in the hunt, but everything else is a notch or two (or more) below.
"I can't believe I kissed you!" "Must have been your lifelong ambition!"
I mean...
I think the Peter Pan quote was a great way to end the run. It's the perfect lead-in to that shot of the Enterprise "riding off into the sunset" while calling back to a story about eternal youth. Kirk struggled with middle age and desk duty in the Wrath of Khan. Now he's allowed to end his adventure on his own terms, with a blend of acceptance and nostalgia. There is no fan service to beat us over the head with call backs and references. Merely a subtle hint of the youthful, adventurous spirit that still resides within him as he flies of into retirement is enough for the audience to understand his emotional state.
What a great comment ! Spot on!
Star Trek Generations pulled double duty, ruining the endings for TOS and TNG.
Exactly!
I feel that if you just take the Enterprise B opening as a separate movie, it is an excellent way to kill off Kirk...
I also think the part all the way up to the D crash, as a separate movie, was pretty good...
Its all the Nexus stuff that just totally sours the whole thing for me...
It was a failure that spanned GENERATIONS!
I know, right?
@@jacobdrj101 (Kris Bluth) I actually enjoy Generations more than a lot of fans, but I agree that the Nexus is plot-convenience gobbledy-gook. It's nothing but a device to get Picard and Kirk together and is a total mess when it's not doing that.
Damn straight Uhura's saved the day. And the galaxy. And the future of the Federation.
RIP Nichelle.
Yep, good iots shown sh is tha important and way better than any translator.
Here's the thing about Uhura's insight though. The ship outfitted with special equipment for studying gaseous anomalies was Excelsior, not Enterprise. As I understand, it was a last-minute production change to give the inciting Praxis encounter to Sulu.
@@MathToolboxChrisI'm reminded of the Chewin' The Fat episode with the Star Trek audition: "I've got the Borg on the phone for ye" 😂
ST Cannon now has a ship NCC Uhura, but I missed the call number. Pretty sure it was referenced in Disco
That's why Spock is the best first officer of all tibecause.He's always prepared like a boy scout with a pocket full of things like veridian patches
Colonel Worf was the right way to do fanservice. He made sense, and you didn't actually need to know anything to see what was going on. On top of that, he was his own character, not simply, "hey, look, it's Worf's grandfather." The new creative team needs to take notes.
Oh please, if the Picard writers "took note" of what the fans wanted there would have been dozens more pointless cameos and memberberries, no matter how nonsensical it would be for them to show up.
For the rest of new trek, at least the callbacks and cameos are either unobtrusive (like Worfs grandad) or they do something substantial with them.
The revelation that the talks would be held on Khitomer is another graceful TNG tie-in. Although I was expecting an actual depiction of the Khitomer Massacre referenced so often in early TNG seasons.
@@thork6974the problem with doing the massacre was that it happened roughly 20 some years before tng, where the movie took place between 30 an 50 years after the movie.
@@alejandronopasanada5302 The deluge of garbage writing and higher-ups forcing their ideas/ideals into the mix in recent years has certainly been rampant, but it's not like there _isn't_ anything good being written or released by major studios. However, it does seem as though television has overall been getting the better scripts and creative minds who are willing to take risks. Fargo on FX, which was created and is primarily written by Noah Hawley (who was given the job to write and direct the next Trek film before the pandemic hit -- his script involved a brand new crew on a new ship encountering a virus in space, so it was scrapped), has been consistently great (if at times wildly ambitious, i.e. season four) since its premiere in 2014 and its upcoming fifth season looks like it'll be quite good as well. He also created a show called Legion in 2017 that ran for three seasons and is quite possibly the most unique and "out there" series to have aired since the premiere of Twin Peaks. Due to his work on both, I'm very excited for his upcoming Alien series; I genuinely feel that if there's anyone who can "right the ship" in regards to that franchise, it's him. I would've loved to see his take on Star Trek, but alas, it wasn't meant to be. Perhaps someday he can develop a Trek series instead.
Better Call Saul is another example of incredible and consistently excellent writing, as well as how to do "fan service" without cheapening or undermining the story it's trying to tell, even though it ended last year.
It also kind of low key explains why words father was claimed as a traitor. After all, he defended the *enemy*
The finale of Voyager has one redeeming moment for me after Kim proposes his insane plan to Paris:
Kim “Where’s your sense of adventure?”
Paris “I left it in that nebula and I’m NOT going back for it!”
Gives me a good laugh every time.
I was 12 when Star Trek VI came out. I had just started attending a new school, and was in this period where I didn't have many friends. I had never been a popular kid at my old school, and that trend continued at my new school. I remember waiting in line for the premier of STVI with my parents at the local shopping center. I saw a couple of other kids from my school there, and I worked up the nerve to go say hi. That was how I found my people in my new school. One of them became my best friend, and still is today. We even had a Star Trek podcast once upon a time. I loved STVI, and still do. Next to TWoK it's my favourite Trek movie, and the two often trade spots depending on my mood any given day.
I rewatched TOS, TAS and the TOS movies earlier this year, and I teared up a bit during Kirks final log entry at the end of Star Trek VI. It was an amazing capstone, and I loved it.
It always bugged me that this movie was the one and only instance where Klingons had Pepto Bismol flowing through their veins. I wish Star Trek kept that canon.
Aside from helping the film avoid an “R" rating, it was an important tidbit for the deleted “Scooby Doo" twist at the end.
@@richardvinsen2385 I think TPJ was referring to the small energy cannon that was used to shoot the Klingons and chemically altered their blood to the color of Pepto Bismol.
😏
Lower Decks honoured it in wejduj ;) “Klingon blood runs reddish-pink!” I believe was the line.
The Klingon FMV game (titled simply 'Star Trek: Klingon') also had purple-ish blood. As far as I know, it's also canon. It certainly felt like a full-budget production for its time.
Klingons as a race have really bad acid reflux. The crew got wicked bad heartburn from the human food at the banquet. They had chugged pepto by the gallon when the two attackers beamed in.
"Hey, you can laser someone's arm off, no bother, and do a shitload of murder. But no red blood, that's bad"
Let's not forget the really iconic credits with the main cast signatures... It really was a perfect send off despite the Scooby Doo ending. Nothing wrong with a little camp in a trek movie.
i mean scooby doo is a classic for a reason. Also its theatralic enough to fit. plus it makes sense, they had to expose the conspirasy somehow and theatralic, why not.
Those credits literally make my heart physically ache every time I watch them. It hits so hard.
And the theme music of the end credits. So good.
Signatures
To be fair, the Scooby Doo ending is only in the directors cut. Back in 1991 we only had the far superior theatrical edit.
Way back in my college science-fiction films class, I did a paper comparing and contrasting Meyer's ST II and VI. There are a lot of thematic similarities (insert "It's like poetry; it rhymes" joke here). Both deal with the crew coping with growing older in a changing galaxy, and coming out the other side with a renewed sense of youth. (In II, Kirk explicitly states, "I feel young," and in VI, he quotes Peter Pan, the boy who never grew up.)
One thing that fits with some of what you talked about - and maybe I've been reading too much into this for the 30 years since I wrote that paper - is that if you add an "E" to the end of the primary antagonist's name, the crew spends the movie learning how to overcome the fear and obstacles that are put in their way by change. I don't know if that was intentional in the writing of the movie or just a happy accident, but it struck me all those years ago and has stayed with me.
The main reason I find VI to be a better Star Trek film that II is that its bigger theme of moving past one's prejudices for the betterment of all is a core concept that, in my mind, makes Trek Trek. Whereas I find one of II's bigger themes to be about living one's life so one's past doesn't come back to haunt you, which is one that doesn't *need* to be told in the Star Trek universe.
Its also having all that charactr moments and humor, but still nails the theme with good character arcs. plus kirk the klingon hatr being the ambasator of peace, goated on by spock, is so good. And even uhara gets done justice.
And that tey ar a product of thir time but even klingon hater kirk can become the ambassor of unity and peace.
Honstly di think archr, i cant ddeside if kirk or archer has the better arc there.
Klingon law apparently doesn't have a problem with conflict of interest...If the guy prosecuting you also arrested you for the crime, there's probably a liiiiittle bias there.
Steve, have you considered pitching a Star Trek curriculum to UMD?
Do this! Start wearing Tweed jackets with elbow patches and tonguing an unlit pipe!
This movie is, in fact, really good overall! Sulu is more badass in this one movie than most Captains manage in an entire season!
at least Sulu didnt have to wait until Tuesday
"Come on! Come on!" "She'll fly apart!" Then fly her apart then!!" I always loved that exchange and delivery.
Plus, we got our first introduction to Ensign Tuvok, who would have guessed the stoic black vulcan background character (the first in franchise history) would become a main character in a future series.
I wish that someone could have made a series about Captain Sulu and his crew. That would have been amazing. He was already such a great "round" character; seeing him grow and learn ... ah well...
I know people get weird about Spock quoting Sherlock Holmes as "an ancestor of mine," but the actual person who wrote that was Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who very well could be an ancestor of Amanda Grayson.
Or maybe Sherlock Holmes is a real person in Trek and Data is playing fan fiction with the life of an actual dude.
Or maybe "is Sherlock Holmes a real person?" is a weird question to ask when the guy that says it is half-alien.
Very nice observation, Amanda. (You could actually have stopped at the word "Grayson".)
I often wonder if Robin is an ancestor of Amanda.
It’s a joke. At this point Spock is joking. He’s reconciled his humanity and understands humor. It’s not to be taken literally. See also “old Vulcan proverb, only Nixon could go to China.”
@@Trevin_Taylor Vulcan humor. Gotta love it!
there is also a lot of evidence to support the theory that Sir Author Conan Doyle may have been none other than Jolly Jack...widely known as Jack the Ripper...After all Jack the Ripper did write that one day men will look back and say I gave birth to the 20th century and Holmes certainly did just that...inspired the creation Spock and Data as well perhaps one could be bold to say that Ripper gave birth not to just the 20th century but to the 23rd century as well as the 24rth and the early 25th century as well
ST VI not only brought closure to TOS for me, but it also brought closure to the Cold War in a way. I was born the year TOS was canceled so my first memories were of it in syndication while at the same time the Cold War hung over our way of life. I came to see that the Klingons were the interpretation of the Soviets and it was nice to see a futuristic society that still clung to hope. When I graduated high school I joined the Navy and was immersed in that Cold War mindset for a time, until one day the Berlin wall fell and while on deployment to the Mediterranean our president met with Soviet Premier Gorbachev and glasnost came to be. I recall there being a sense of accomplishment and when I went home ST VI came out soon afterward.
As a child I was always made aware of how TOS was topical for the 1960s and much like that, ST VI brought the TOS era to a close in a similarly topical way.
Spot on! 🎉
And, Thank you for your Service too. 🖖💖
So important to let the original cast set up Klingons-as-allies on screen! This was the first Trek movie I saw in the theaters, a friend's birthday. I must have been 9 or 10. I don't think I was sophisticated enough to even follow the plot very well, but it was still a satisfying watch, all us little nerds were buzzing about Chang's final moment walking out of the theater. My favorite Trek film, for sure.
Hey, the Starfleet laundry division cameos in this one.... LoL
I have three films tied for best Trek movie, and this is one of them. It's superb.
And the third one is Beyond?
WoKhan, this, and First Contact?
I go back and forth on if I like The Undiscovered Country or The Wrath of Khan is my favorite. Honestly, 2-4 and 6 forms a tight unit if you watch them without stopping for 5. TMP doesn't really fit in with that story arc but is good in its own right. (The Directors Cut is good anyway)
@@ATADSP Wrath of Khan is great, Star Trek 4 Voyage Home was a fun action adventure, Star Trek 6 Undiscovered Country was topical and deep, and Star Trek 8 First Contact had everything we loved about TNG era without being too draggy.
@@BS-vx8dg Those are my three.
I think The Undiscovered Country was my first experience with Star Trek, besides the 2009 JJ Abrams movie (and a few assorted TNG episodes I would watch at my Grandmother's house when we'd go up for Christmas) so it holds a pretty special place in my heart.
A little later on, my dad and I wpuld always sit down every Friday or Saturday night to watch some Star Trek TOS on MeTV.
I love your breakdown of these ST episodes
They're funny, well put together, and just generally fun to watch.
If The Undiscovered Country was your first Star Trek experience, did you have any trouble understanding the background that set us up for this?
@@seantlewis376Not really
I was pretty darn young at the time, and both my dad and mom always made reference to tge Klingons or Borg as the enemies of the Federation.
I ended up getting more into ST as I got older, but for the most part just didn't really question things.
Kirk:
I can't believe I kissed you!
Martia (still looking like Kirk):
Must have been your lifelong ambition!
It was a great end. I remember when TOS moved to a new time slot and canned. Never to be seen until reruns .
A sad day.
My personal headcanon is that Romulan Ambassador Nanclus and, more broadly, the Romulan Empire (Tal Shiar) were the originators/instigators of the conspiracy to prevent peace talks in the first place. Nanclus has almost nothing to do in the film except delivering a cryptic line and getting arrested at the end, but his inclusion is a perfect nod toward the type of Romulan behavior depicted in TNG (the Redemption two-parter came out the same year as ST VI) and later in Enterprise's fourth season. I mean, Romulans do seem to default to "let's execute a secret plot to divide our enemies and keep them from uniting against us" (only to have said plot fail spectacularly), and through that lens Star Trek VI could easily be viewed as just another attempt. What are your thoughts?
It works, but it relies on the modern interpretation of the Romulans. (Given that the Romulans and Klingons kinda swapped MO's between TOS and TNG)
Absolutely. And totally in character for the Romulans. The Romulans have ALWAYS been trying to set the Federation and Klingons against each other. The Romulans didn't necessarily have to start the conspiracy, but they certainly would've done their best to further it if they discovered it.
Make sense, but the Romulans met their match in the 24th century with adversaries like the Dominion and Federation's own secret intelligence agency, Section 31. Of course, I think out of all the scheming powers, the one that probably had the most lasting impression on the Romulans is the Cardassians via Garak's ploy that caused them to enter the Dominion War, thus destabilizing their political, military, and social institutions to the point where they couldn't evacuate their own citizens off Romulus, their government was infiltrated by Federation agents, and ultimately collapsed their nation state. While the Romulans like to use the ploy of "Divide and Conquer", I prefer the Cardassian adjustment to their own gambit.
I believe most of the politicians were originally supposed to have a bigger role in this, but they were all cut back for time and to favour the crew's story.
Undiscovered Country is my low key favorite film in the series. Wrath of Khan is certainly a favorite and objectively amazing, but the dark tone and music of Undiscovered Country made it amazing. I always felt like this was the most adult Star Trek film, then and now.
Ah! And I'm so glad you mentioned the score. The overture during the credits for this film is *incredible* and one of my favorite pieces of film music. It's so different from previous scores, and yet fits the film perfectly. Again, similar to James Horner creating an entirely original theme and score for WoK. Excellent stuff.
All of the Best ST films (II, IV, VI) fixed disappointing stories of the prior very odd film (I, III, V).
The ONLY "Good Line" of V, for Me was the vinegar in Kirk's koolaid: "Wait. What does God need a ship for? My Ship?!!!"
Thinking about what a pivotal role he played, I now kind of want to know how Gorkon is viewed by TNG-era Klingons, like how he's taught in their schools.
probably as a great klingon. reformer and one that saved the empire. because without gorkon opening up peace with the feds... well the klingons would've been dead by 2343. (50 years of air mentioned in the starfleet briefing scene)
I still maintain to this day, that after Chang said "I AM AS CONSTANT AS THE NORTH STAR!" McCoy replied with "I'd give real money if SHE'D shut up."
😂
I just rewatched it and yes, McCoy does say she. Subtitles say he though.
Sure does. McCoy was tired of hearing "Shakespeare", in the original Klingon, of course. 😅
Isn't McCoy referring to the ship's computer's incessant warnings? There's no rational reason he'd be able to hear Chang's monologuing.
@OpinionsNoOneCaresAbout ,
... I love your screen name, it's the only thing you're self-aware about. Otherwise *you don't know what the hell you're talking about* , McCoy said ""I'd pay real money IF HE would shut up"". *Get your hearing checked already*
The thing that I like most about Undiscovered Country is that it explains how the peace is achieved which was alluded to all the way back in the original series episode that established the Klingon neutral zone(because of the Organians) and the pilot of next-gen which had debuted four years earlier( with a junior officer on the bridge who was a Klingon). So it would not only connects first series to the new series but it also was eluded to years before
I don't have to watch this video to *know* that the premise is true.
But of course, that makes me want to watch it all the more.
This movie had 2 things keeping it from being perfect:
1. They defeated Chang by a random idea from Spock. It would've more thematically salient if they would've defeated him by working with a Klingon character.
2. They invented a ship that can fire while cloaked and then all future writers ignored it.
prototype weapon whom i guess had files that were sealed away never to be found again
I loved VI as a kid because General Chang was an excellent villain, Sulu was awesome as Captain, and the final battle is so fun to watch. The political scenes were there and I understood they were important (mainly setting up where characters would be in the plot later), but the action stuff was fun!
As an adult, I watch it more FOR those scenes that I skimmed over so much as a wee lad because, like II, it shows the age of our heroes and showcases how imperfect they all are BUT that they work to overcome those imperfections, those little flaws that grow to destroy who we are if we don’t nip them in the bud, to uphold not only the tenants of the Federation that they serve but to be BETTER people than the caricatures they would become in these difficult times.
I grew up with the Klingons as the enemy. I then saw how people can choose to change and grow and try to make the “Undiscovered Country” of the future better for those that come after. It really showed me the optimism of Star Trek - no, the world is not perfect. We aren’t perfect. But we can TRY to be better. We can work together to BE better. No matter how many General Changs or Admiral Cartwrights there may be to hold us back, we have the ability, nay the responsibility, to overcome those biases and help those who need it, to look past borders and cultures to see those who aren’t “us” as people that deserve the same respect and care we do.
Nicholas Meyer and Leonard Nimoy truly crafted not only a classic piece of cinema worthy of saving, but absolutely the best send off and finale to a crew we could’ve asked for
This was always my favorite Trek movie. It has everything in it that made Star Trek great. I think it holds up as well today as it did then.
You brought back some good memories here!
I played hooky the day Star Trek VI premiered. It was my freshman year of high school. My older brother took me to the theater for the first showing of the day. And the line around the building was truly a sight to see! This was an event film in the best way.
And, when I got back to school the next day, I was berated by my math teacher for taking a sick day … just to see Star Trek VI.
But it was worth it. ;-)
The Undiscovered Country was the first Star Trek film I saw in the cinema. I was recovering from surgery, running a fever, and supposed to be in bed taking it easy, but no way was I going to miss this movie I'd been waiting for. It's hard to convey to younger people just what it felt like for the Cold War to finally be ending and to have that mirrored up on the big screen.
I mean Star Trek VI was directed by Nick Meyer, so you knew right away that it was gonna be good!
Yeah, but Meyer's other entry was Star Trek II, and I've never been a big fan of that one.
(I'll never miss an opportunity to push that one particular terrible opinion on other people.)
@@AndrewD8Red For Roddenberristic reasons, Andrew?
@@BS-vx8dg
No, I'm afraid not. It just... never really did it for me.
I think it's good, but it's low down my list, personally.
@@AndrewD8Redsee I'm a polar opposite. I LOVED ST2!
I'm in the same boat... Not a TWoK fan... Not a hater either...
But 6... 6 is a masterpiece...
And one that took me until adulthood to really fully appreciate...
ooooh question, where did you get the Pride Trek shirt?
I cannot think of a better finale than the undiscovered country.
Finally an episode of Trek Actually I can watch without spoilers 😊
The Undiscovered Country was the last bow on stage for most of the old original crew in the world of Star Trek. One last adventure with the old generation with a bittersweet taste, since all good things do come to an end. For several movies and episodes the crew of the classic Enterprise have stood with us. The ending of this movie was a good farewell to the old crew.
Instant thumbs up for talking about my favorite Star Trek movie. Wrath of Khan is great, don't crucify me.. I just like this better.
It still frustrates me every time when Uhura points out the equipment they have for charting gaseous anomalies. The opening of the movie is on the Excelsior, where _they_ are on a mission specifically to chart gaseous anomalies. The Enterprise wasn't on any mission before this current one, and has no reason to have that equipment on board.
I've never seen it verified, but my gut says that in a previous draft, Excelsior found the cloaked ship, and together they defeated it with the Enterprise, but Shatner just couldn't handle not being the one who delivered the revealing blow, and so it was re-written to what we see on screen, despite it making no sense.
Close. Shatner insisted that the Enterprise not be "rescued" by the Excelsior.
There's an argument to be made that it wouldn't have been as interesting to see two previously unknown engineers on the Excelsior fit the torpedo with the new sensor suite, as opposed to *Spock and Bones* doing surgery on a live torpedo on the loading track.
Chuds: Star Trek was never political!!!!
Undiscovered Country: I heard u guys like realpolitik
“Second star to the right, and straight on till morning” was the perfect last line.
But Mirror Universe Chekov would have framed Mirror Universe Kirk. Mirror Universe Chekov still owes Kirk one over the "Agony Booth" incident...😉
Undiscovered Country is a masterpiece.
I don’t mind Easter eggs, but I feel like they should be a reward for the long term watchers, fleeting references that a new viewer wouldn’t feel disconnected from.
I'm a TOS fan from the get-go. I watched the first run series when it premiered (yes I'm THAT old) and haven't missed an episode since-- including all spin-offs and associated movies. The Undiscovered Country is all you say and properly a fitting send-off of the TOS cast. Just a couple personal reflections from seeing this movie its debut week in theaters. Firstly one of my favorite lines is Sulu commanding "Fly her apart then!" and secondly that gorgeous score which at the end of the film-- coupled with the signatures of each of the original cast scrolling across the screen pushed my emotions over the edge. I don't know if any other movie before has used the signatures of the cast over the final moments before the credits roll or not, but it was a perfect and dignified nod to each of these actors who has brought their characters to life over the course of time.
Steve, while I am grateful you graciously allowed those of us who loved Picard S3 to have our opinion, I strongly disagree with you - not on your assessments of STVI - but on your dismissal of Picard S3. But just as you did, I shall permit you to have your opinion! Thanks for the video. I’m a loyal viewer of your reviews with your friend and even when I disagree with you (which is often) I enjoy your videos. Keep doing them. Who knows? Maybe someday you’ll like something without any quibbles. Unlikely tho, right?
God I love this movie. I genuinely think it ties with Voyage Home for best Trek film. Voyage Home is funny. Undiscovered Country is BRILLIANT. It's intelligent, insightful, relies heavily on character relationships without being fanservicey, gives us an ending for the Original Series that feels fulfilling. It's everything a Trek movie should be.
Christopher Plummer was AWESOME in this. Also the "deleted scene" with Colonel West/Odo/ReneO was a bad choice, it should have been left in, like the removed scene where Peter Preston in TWOK was Scottys nephew... these were sad omissions, they both added alot of meaning and depth with these deleted items included. Frankly, same with the TWOK deleted dialogue scene in the shuttle with the crew going to the Enterprise that Sulu is revealed by Kirk as being impending-captain-promoted by Kirk's recomendation...knowing that Sulu still went through all he did in Search for Spock and Voyage Home, such loyalty and selflessness.
Resistance is a very viable long term strategy, it worked for the Bajorans
...and Voyager unfortunately
Great movie. I still maintain that "All Good Things..." is the best finale but Star Trek VI is a very close second.
Also, I feel compelled to mention, technically Star Trek: Generations is the series finale for TOS. :p
TNG already had an excellent finale - All Good Things. Picard Season 3 as a finale for TNG is completely unnecessary.
I don't mind a bit of fanwank in my entertainment. There are even some plotlines that can only exist with a copious amount of fanwank. But a mainstream finale isn't the time and the place for it. That's for tieing themes used across multiple years together into something that's celebrating the broad strokes, rather than appealing only to the hardest of hardcore fans. Fanservice as part of that - Maybe. Depends on how it's done. Going into fanwank territory? Please don't.
(Fanwank, incidentally, was a term coined by Doctor Who novelist Craig Hinton who... Well, he wrote Quantum Archangel, a story that involves some obscure bits of expanded universe continuity as a central point, including the idea that instead of two guardians of time there are six, the azure guardian of dreams is the celestial toymaker, the red guardian of justice is a future version of the Doctor. He then ties that in with string theory's conception of six additional spatial dimensions (adding in a second dimension of time into the mix because Doctor Who is weird) - He doesn't appear to have coined it as a negative is what I'm saying, though in coining it, and in particular naming it _that_ , he definitely acknowledged it wasn't to everyone's taste.)
Steve, I would have been content with you just giving us the movie's plot and paralleling it to the Cold War. It's all stuff known (and comfortable) to those of us who have been watching Trek since TOS aired on NBC. But then, in the second half, when you relate to us that *this* is how you close a series, by abjuring fan service and instead providing us a truly new story that makes great use of beloved characters, well, this was something I had never really thought about (even though your opinion of fan service is hardly something unfamiliar to viewers of your videos). I have loved ST:6 since it came out, and now I have an intellectual framework to explain to people who Klingon to one lesser movie or another as their favorite, that even if they can't agree that this is the best ST movie, it is the best finale in the franchise. Great video, sir.
Nah, I think you’re wrong…
You’re the best person to teach us Cold War history. I don’t care if you’re not qualified, that’s the best part 🤣 🤣
Of course Star Trek didn't end the Cold War. Everyone knows it was Rocky IV that did that.
I agree this was both the best send off of TOS and passing the torch to the next Gen, so why ruin it with Generations. I mean they could have made that film TNG only...no tie in’s with TOS. I would have been fine with that.
Does referencing David's death count as fanservice? How would you write it to show Kirk's bias without any fanservice moments?
I am going to make an educated guess that it isn't fanservice you have an issue with; it's fanservice that doesn't really service the plot. If so, I am generally in agreement with you, though, a few Easter eggs sprinkled throughout aren't bad.
I never really thought of this movie as the series finale for TOS, but, you definitely make a good case for it.
"Does referencing David's death count as fanservice? " No.
Its not fan service, because its extremely relevant to the plot (and also, because fans didnt care about david)
@@birdbrainiac Merritt Butrick had already died in real life (in 1989), so the scene with his photo memorializes him as well as motivating Kirk's behavior.
I understand why Star Trek: Beyond isn't included in this, but it makes up for how much I hate Into Darkness.
One other aspect of Star Trek VI is the completion of Kirk's character arc. It started in Star Trek II when Kirk's son is introduced and is killed at the hands of Klingons in Star Trek III and Kirk is hunted in Star Trek V. And it is brought to a close when Kirk recognizes his prejudice, comes to terms with it. For me the themes of reconciliation, personal development, the idea that people can come to terms with their weaknesses and shortcomings and change for the better are what Star Trek is all about.
There is something about those 80s Trek movies that is totally lost now. I believe it's they were more willing to take risks. Star Trek II is arguably the most fan servicey of the TOS movies for including Kahn as the villain. But it wasn't done in a way that winking at the audience. In fact, WOTK feels like it's truly a story about coming to terms with aging and the consequences of recklessness in the wrapper of a simple revenge plot.
Steve when mentioning the soviet union you mentioned it had been around neqr 70 years. I'm surprised when discussing the C&C meeting you didn't reference Spock mentioning these talks would put an end to almost 70 years of unremitting hostility.
31:06 Did Kirk fight a Jem'hadar?
Jem'Hadar don't have genitals to hide in their knees.
McCoy's line
"What is it with you!"
Will always be my absolute favorite
"I'd give real money if he'd shut up."
Spoken like only a genteel Atlantan could do.
People are so comfortable with AI-generated content because that's the content Paramount has been making for years.
I know this is a controversial opinion but my favorite Star Trek movies are the search for Spock the final frontier generations and first contact and my favorite Star Trek shows are deep space nine and Voyager
At 6:07....pro tip, guard your privacy and leave your prejudices out of the log.
well said, and this is not debatable. The TOS movies never tried to rehash their greatest hits, instead they told new stories about this crew and developed the characters in interesting ways.
I thought the fight between Kirk and Martia shape-shifting into Kirk was reminiscent of the episode _Whom Gods Destroy_ (even the name "Martia" is similar to Marta).
Alright, Steve, I get it. I was an idiot for sort of enjoying Season 3. Sorry for trying to take joy in things. Won't let it happen again.
The best kind of fan service? Telling a new story, so we as fans, have something new to think about...
1991 ah yeah that was the day... 'course I wasn't born yet so there was that.
Wait, did they fly the Enterprise into a sun?
ST:VI has always been my #1, and that's knowing the minuses - the scene with Uhura and the translations - I was so disappointed by that -and I think Ms Nicols said herself that she was very disappointed with it as well. I was very pleased to see that they 'rectified' that in the JJ Trek where Uhura - even as a cadet - knew 'all' the various Klingon dialects... Also, Chekov being the Keystone Cops in some scenes. But even with these 'character deficiencies', this was such a lovely movie that implied without - as you said - directly referencing - all good things about the 'mythos' of Star Trek: TOS
Yeah, you know? I definitely agree that Star Trek VI was one of the absolute best of the films in the whole of the Star Trek franchise. Star Treks 2-4 and 6 were excellent films (though 4 had some flaws comparatively in terms of its storytelling, though a lot more "classically funny" moments.). 2 and 3 were in a way an end of an era, and 6 was a beautifully built narrative that reflected the times it was written in as a political narrative. As the Cold War ends, we watch an optimistic and hopeful end to Cold War policies and the ever present Klingon/Federation conflict. A pity real life was complicated, but cyclical history is what it is.
Really, it had some of the best and most solid writing of any of the films in general. I do think there's been other excellent films since this time in the world, but this one was just .... *chef's kiss*. I don't hate modern writing, but there were moments when the original material was uniquely perfect, and this was just one of those. It remains to this day my favorite Star Trek movie.
... now I wanna rewatch 6.
Star Trek didn't end The Cold War; David Hasselhoff did ;-) But seriously, nice work, mate.
You believe the inventory. You can physically check it.
I find Star Trek VI to be the most watchable of the original 6 movies. II & IV are great but if I just want to see some ST movie, VI is the I watch. Thx for a great video.
This movie is just a huge moment of growth for Kirk. It shows that he wasn't just "Torn shirt macho" Kirk, but someone who can actually realize that a long held belief is wrong, and he can at least start to move in a healthier direction.
Chernobyl also cost the USSR an ungodly amount of money.
This is probably my favourite Star Trek movie. One of my favourite bits in it is a subtle piece of acting by Nichele. She has a look of disgust on her face after ending the call to the Klingon border patrol. On its own it's a fine in character bit, but knowing the background of the production adds another layer in that she HATED the scene. She thought it was out of character for her, the COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER, to not already be fluent in Klingon, and that look is her showing her real feelings about the scene.
"If there is to be a Brave New World, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it." was incredibly prescient. The problem is a lot of the people who were just coming into positions of power when that brave new world arrived are still clinging to power, refusing to learn and adapt, and trying to bring back the "good old days". The "good old days" were never as good as advertised and only seen as good when viewed through rose-tinted glasses.
And the same is true of fandom, not just this fandom but any fandom. Quite a lot of fans are the same as those clinging to power hoping to bring back the good old days. They want more of the familiar, the comfortable. They cheer when a work goes all-in on nostalgia pandering, delivering them - as Fry would put it - the same thing they've seen a thousand times before. Not only did ST:PIC S3 pull everyone out of retirement so that they could go do the same things they were doing 30 years ago, it cribbed the finale from both the rebooted Battlestar Galactica and from Return of the Jedi. I wonder how many of those cheering the RotJ style dive into the Death Star-sized Borg Cube were sneering at The Force Awakens for having yet another Death Star Trench Run.
I am a BIG fan of this movie. In fact after it came out, it was my favorite Star Trek, just some time ago surpassed by Wrath of Khan and that just barely. Watching Steve's video essay now ... please do it justice, Mr. Shives!
edit. So. Of course, The Undiscovered Country has some plot holes, some things which I don't like. And no-one mentions Spock's mind-melt of Valeris as unwanted intrusion? Still, with the shortcomings of its time, this movie has its place in our time. It is of course not about a journey to the stars. It is about the journey to ourselves.
Star Trek VI is a very rare occurrence. It was the right time and place that allowed Leonard Nimoy and Nick Meyer to make a film like this without the reflexive fan-service. The problem with Picard Seasons 1-2, and to a lesser extent for 3, is that Patrick Stewart really didn't have the pull Nimoy did, or a successful partner who was a director/producer within the franchise to back him up like Nick Meyer did. Rick Berman rans things meant the TNG cast had less influence than Shatner or Nimoy did in the TOS film era. Nimoy had the power he did because not only was he the indispensable character but had a very strong track-record as a successful director in his own right in and out of Trek. More importantly, because Roddenberry died, Nimoy and Harve Bennett were the de facto property owners for the TOS franchise. So they *were* Kurtzman at the time. Today, Patrick Stewart doesn't control the TNG era franchise and is not much more than an actor while Kurtzman and his cronies control all aspects of Trek.
good point. if you want to control the franchise or guide it the way you want... you better have a hand in the production/directing. because as an actor... well they don't call actors dancing monkeys for no reason.
So if Star Trek 6 is an allegory about the end of the cold war, then clearly the explosion of the moon Praxis is a stand in for the explosion in the Chernobyl nuclear power plant... oh...you beat me to it.
I think what puts this movie above WOK for me is that, despite WOK being a fun yarn of a story and brilliantly put together, this movie is more Star Trek at its core. A classic tale of revenge is nice and fun, but ST6 brings in a humanist/societal connundrum that is deeper, not JUST 'stop the bad guy'. Both ST2 and ST6 operate by bringing the past into play for better or worse, but where ST2 says 'Whoopsie looks like we were careless with our younger years', ST6 says 'its never too late to move forward' which kind of completes the arc and nicely frames those human arcs in a typically ST societal allegory where the journey of hour heroes mirrors the journey of the Federation as a whole. Also ST6 looks better. The lighting/framing/general film stock quality is cleaner and more cinematic than the budget-constrained ST2 where the rough around the edges lighting and sound editing can feel a bit dated.
I love Cliff Eidelman's score for this one. Used to listen to it a lot back in the day. But, I doooo wonder how cool it would have been if they'd gotten Horner or Goldsmith. Would it have really been a bad thing to hear the more famous trek themes in this movie? I think it would have really brought home the character beats without feeling like fan service. For all the problems with the Star Wars sequels, nobody ever seems to complain that John WIlliams came back and used all the old music in addition to new stuff. Word on the street is that Indy5 is a very mixed bag, but everyone agrees that the music is one of the highlights.
This was my first Star Trek film I saw in the cinema at 9 years old. My Grandma took me to see it .
It was amazing! I don't remember even blinking much .
I remember seeing this at the cinema as a 6 year old. But I remember coming away thinking "if only the tension had been repeatedly cut by someone making a dead-pan sarcastic comment or a teenager exclaiming 'OMG it can fire while cloaks, f**king awesome'". Ahem ^^
I was mildly confused by the comparison against other finales, because in the UK “the shit” means excellent. But I already knew you don’t like those examples! So that’s an interesting linguistic lesson.
I think Steve actually said "the shits," not "the shit." 🙂
When this came out, there were rumors that Capt. Kirk was gonna be killed off in this movie. The trailers on tv showed Kirk getting vaporized, so I went into this thinking that not only was it the last of the original cast Star Trek films, that I would see Kirk die and that's how the franchise would end.
Its literally Rocket surgery.
The way this movie honours the TOS cast and what Star Trek stands for better, in my mind, makes it the best Trek film. As it's smartly written enough to give enough context to the characters' motivation within it (like reminding us of David's death) I also, oddly enough, use it often as the on-ramp to get friends into Star Trek. Thank you for your solid, well thought-out and passionate essay.
ayy i just watched the one with the whales for the first time last night
Interesting. I'm wondering how the humor plays, 40 years after it was released. Did you find it funny? At the time it was widely seen as the funniest thing Trek had ever produced.
@@BS-vx8dgI had a great time watching it, coming from someone who struggles sometimes to appreciate TOS after growing up with modern production style. “Do you like Italian” was hilarious.
They found too many excuses to fit the word “wessel” into the script and I sense the actor doesn’t love it.
“Doctor gave me a pill and I grew a new Kidney!” had me in stitches, though. I can’t think of another joke in the franchise right now that has a better setup/execution.
George Takei loved being the Captain of the Excelsior for sure!
Excellent video. Watching your reviews of Picard s3, the one thing in particular I disagreed with you on was the use of familiar musical themes. While I agree that was overdone in Picard s3, this is something that helps connect me emotionally. I remember being very frustrated in the theater, seeing Generations and not really getting a hint of the original theme until the end of the end credits. I'm sorry, but when any Federation starship named Enterprise first shows up on screen, I think you get to have that theme play.
Wait if that quote is spock’s relative doesn’t that mean he’s related to Sherlock Holmes? I’m confused steve.
Nicholas Meyer indicates on his audio commentary for TUC that his intention was to imply that Spock (through his mother) was a descendant of Holmes. (Meyer is a huge Holmes fan who has written novels and made a movie about him.) Some Star Trek fans are uncomfortable with this idea because it seems inconsistent with the depiction of Holmes as a fictional character in TNG, but there are bigger continuity issues than that in Star Trek. The more interesting question, to me, is when and with whom Holmes had a child...
Without a doubt, my favorite Star Trek movie… Such a great script and story, and with the best crew, best Enterprise, just the best….
It's my favorite Star Trek film, but the only thing that has always bugged me is Spock's leap in logic that the uniforms must be on the Enterprise. Surely, someone else than the assassins could have altered the databanks while they beamed back to the BoP to het rid of the uniforms... or they had the uniforms and never set foot on the E in the first place...
I just read an article where Patrick Stewart was quoted as saying he wants to do one more TNG cast movie.
Did you hear that Patrick Stewart wants another TNG movie send off.
I sure hope not. TNG has defined this franchise’s direction for far too long. It was already providing diminishing returns back in the 2000s, but now that people have finally gotten a proper post-NEM send off, we just need to finally stop for good.
If we must revisit anything in TNG down the road, let Celia Rose Gooding head a series about Uhura as captain and make Ensign Picard a minor character there but other than that….nope, I’m done with it.
Fondness for this movie grew over time. I remember seeing this with my buddies in the theater when it premiered. They were so fat at this point we dubbed this movie, "The Undiscovered Country Chicken".