I very much agree that a protective process can become unconscious and thus, the person has very little true understanding of what’s happening or why. Which can make it all the more dangerous. Thank you for your comment John.
Many traumatic childhoods lead to dissociation, what per se make the entire understanding and acknowledging of emotions hard. I'm one of those kind of people, and I can say that after many years fleeing from the sadness and uncomfortable feelings, I got pretty good at not being aware of any feeling, while simultaneously suffering deep within.
This comment really resonates, thanks for putting it so clearly. I was told I had a mild depression even when I was able to admit that I dealt with suicidal thoughts and letting that guide me when I was really tired 😅. Though I do remember the masking even when in therapy, not deliberately but due to feeling so ashamed and also 'bad' that I was making people worried even though I was functioning like normal
@@theviolinvoice4173no! Save yourself like I did. No one is better equipped to save you than YOURSELF. You know all your secrets. Be your own hero! Religion lies to us when it states we must give in to God or a higher power. Children are groomed by a poisonous ideology when we are too impressionable to decide for ourselves. Christians (and most Western religions, new beliefs systems BTW) think a father figure is always watching. Sound familiar? Stop turning the other cheek. Get mad temporarily at your parents and caregivers for locking you into this false ideology. If God existed no one would go wanting and evildoers would be punished! Henry Kissinger lived to be 100. Also… hang on to your hat… I’ve read every DSM. All diagnostic models used are theoretical. None were created using the scientific method. Autistic people like me are described as 2/3 of a person! Nonsense. Think for yourself. Research the origins of widely used methods that fail continuously. To wit, bipolar, schizophrenia and borderline aren’t real, just untested theories. Best of luck with a full recovery! ❤
Add being intellectually gifted and always getting most things done quite good without too much thinking about it or anyone ever wondering how (including yourself) into the mix, I really hate it and understood way to late in life how this mix was the perfect recipe for my deteriorating mental state. Still working on it
Treating suicidal feelings as normal feelings is a game-changer. It's about destigmatizing these emotions and creating a space for open dialogue, I am all for this.
We can all …so that “Transparency is seen as strength”…imagine the power this inner emancipation would have on a communal, societal level. Thank you for this video❤
my husband is chronically ill and in pain. he says he wants to die every day. i hear it all the time. i am so sad and cry all the time. no help with him and i work too. we need support!!
Absolutely true. I have gotten this mostly from family. They have no clue. But I don’t share with them anymore. I know the people that have my back and truly love me unconditionally
happened to me, yeah. never talk to anyone about my real feelings anymore after being told I'm too dramatic. they don't bother to listen, why should I be bothered to tell truth.
Oooooh, my favorite "It could be worse, be grateful" 🥲 Yeah, thanks, so helpful 👍 The worst part is that you can't really argue with that - this is true. But for me not being able to enjoy my life, to find a reason to get up in the morning is quite a catastrophe. Like every end of life is. Mine already feels like an ended one, so why pretend I want this to continue? This "Be grateful" only makes you feel judged, and rejected, and misunderstood. Nothing close to connection - the essential healing ingredient. But, to be fair, I don't believe in connection, so I don't seek it. I have almost chosen to be depressed all alone and try to help myself however I can. For now, I choose not to harm myself physically, it's a taboo
No, not bad but rather strange, in my opinion. It was/is never comforting to me to know that other people are going through similar or even bigger pain
I heard recently that is even a cognitive mechanism to want to die, is the brain wanting to stop the intense pain. If we can understand these thoughts as a brain mechanism maybe we can replace it with others
That statement made me cry. It’s been almost 10 years since I was in the back of an ambulance after having a ptsd episode. The emt asked me what happened during the drive and I told him things got a little crazy and I lost control of my emotions and just wanted it to stop. He told me he was a vet and had ptsd himself and that “sometimes I get a little crazy too”. I was 16 at the time and felt so alone in my battle with ptsd and panic disorder; he reached out his hand when I needed it most. That’s when I realized I wasn’t alone, we all have each other. There’s so many of us out there who have struggled in silence. You don’t have to be alone. We pass each other everyday and don’t even realize how much we have in common. I know it’s hard to believe but things get better and there are people out there that understand your pain.
@@theoptimalspark8198 saying "you're not alone." isn't really helpful. I always feel alone. Everytime I try to reach out, no one really cares because they're also busy living their own lives. We can't really burden other people with our problems, I guess. .
This has definitely been true for me whenever I've felt suicidal. It's not even the depression but the anxiety that's excruciating. When I'm depressed, I know there will always be a better tomorrow. But with anxiety, I feel like a can't wait any longer for a better tomorrow to come.
It's such an important topic. I feel like depression is something that's really normalised in online spaces, but still absolutely terrifying to talk about in real life. There's a sense of shame. Especially when your life is objectively "good" in many ways, and you wonder why you can't just get over it. You think to yourself that your struggles aren't as bad as others, that you have nothing to complain about, and you don't want to burden anyone with it when they have their own things going on. But retreating into yourself just makes it all pile up :(
I think it comes from practice... even though it's awful to think about it like that but I just mean that first conversation IRL is really tough of course but once you've done it it does get easier and easier.
This is exactly what i am concerned about . Not everything can be theorized , as the symptoms a person is experiencing are complex and layered in nature. As someone who will be a psychologist too in some years , I fear diagnosing my patients with the wrong mental illness..... Also , as you ended by saying you had a tear in your eye when he walked into the room smiling!! Can't wait to see my patients do that ❤🎉 Thank you so much for such an insightful talk .
Retired firefighter. Hid it for 40 years. A life lived in grayness. Ssri’s you name them. I recently started low dose ketamine. I feel much better. Keep research going for us
@@BEC4life10 I've been collaborating with clinicians and authors who've worked with first responders and know that this is huge in those fields. I'm so glad you've found relief and thank you for sharing your experience.
People at work would be shocked how I constantly think about suicide. I’m successful and respected. Always have a smile on my face and help others. When I’m not at work, I almost never leave my bed and sleep ALL THE TIME. I really think they’d be surprised.
Reach out now…soon…to a professional and begin to reveal yourself to another’s ears. The thoughts going around and around on a hamster wheel will keep you stuck in no man’s land. Your willingness to use your mouth and begin processing to another those thoughts will be your way out. It might take a long time but the way things are now it will be the best time you will ever spend…it is freedom to live a life, not pain free but with the tools to cope with life’s challenges. You are smart, but now you must be wise and speak your feelings to another…trust and broaden your understanding of yourself. You are worthy, now damn it…get going! Love and hugs always…
You are far from alone. Having compassion and understanding of how it became vital to armor yourself with looking successful is so very important. I hope you'll allow this first step to speak your truth to become one of many. Please take care.
For what it’s worth, you DID listen to your gut. You DID take action. You DID save Natalie’s life. I know it’s human nature to beat yourself up over the what-ifs, but you did EVERYTHING right. You are the therapist we all need ❤
"To be clear, suicide is not normal, its thoughts about suicide is normal" Someone finally said it, it just shows everyone has a limit on how much they can endure
One thing I learned : one who understands depression is the one who have faced it and feel it by own personally. Most difficult phase is when one want to express about the same but don't have anybody to talk, to discuss and to understand. Thank you for sharing this.
And worse still, am even feeling like even when I talk to God, it's like he is not listening at all 😢 I have no one to talk talk and it's killing me inside
Just having one person acknowledge your suffering and experiences helps validate your experience. My current therapist wanted me to do something else but I could never figure out what she wanted me to do.
@@JoyMwaangaoh my! This is so true...right now I feel like God doesn't exist though...it's like a weird feeling when you see people around you who has their own religious practices. Plus, their prayers are being answered. So, yea I don't even know of what religion I am...it's like blank
The number of times I’ve been told by professionals that we could end sessions because I sounded like I didn’t need help anymore… while I was screaming ‘NO I’m not’ inside, I couldn’t help but think… they must be right, they’re the professional, I must be exaggerating. It could’ve spared me a lot of deep dark times if only one of them had catched on to the facade I didn’t even know I was making. Thank you for bringing attention to this 🙏🏼
@@EverDragMedia yes my trust in my own gut was very thin because of how used I was to people pleasing and masking. If you always talk yourself into the truth of someone else, you disconnect from your own truth. Together with the ‘hierarchy’ of a professional I would believe they knew better than I did. Only after the fourth time this happened I vocalized this screaming no inside me and I got the help I needed.
I even told my therapist that I’m really good at talking but really don’t say anything of value. Trying to say he will need to see past that and dig to get anything real. It didn’t help 2.5yrs later only just past the surface and only because it’s been so long
I’m at the exact same spot at the moment. Ended therapy and it’s not going well without it. I’m just not able to say what has to change for me or what I want to change because I simply don’t know
@@missd369I feel exactly the same, I think the root is possibly because I was celebrated for my academic achievements when I was little and it made me only associate love with doing well so I became anxious about being perfect all the time then beat myself up when I was just ‘average’ and saw it as shame and complete failure. I eventually became terrified of trying at all in case I fell short and it’s had a hold of me for decades, I don’t know how to fight it when it feels like it’s hardwired.
I'm a 60 something retired UK tradesman. I was able to charge up to five times what normal tradesman charged and people were happy to pay it - all my work was recommendation. I made less money than other tradesman who charged standard rates and were not too fussy. Perfection does not exist. I could have charged 10x more and still perfection just cannot exist. My customers held me in such high esteem I thought if they could see the tiny defects in my work that probably only I could see that they would be disappointed in me and realise how unworthy of their high regard I am. For me, any defect or potential criticism was a sign that I simply did not measure up and was unworthy. In my case it was about self-worth and how I do not have it innately and probably a lifetime of trying to manufacture it.
Margaret's concept of "perfectly hidden depression" shines a light on the importance of understanding the complexity of mental health. It's a nuanced perspective.
Someone suicidal will not let it show if they're planning to end their life because they don't want to alarm anyone who could try to stop them. If someone shows they need help, that's exactly what it is: they're not yet at that point of putting a plan into action to die; they are asking for help. It's not complicated. People who erase themselves from the social environment are slowly trying to not be missed, eventually. It's gradual sometimes. If psych professionals understand this, they'll be more likely to help.
I don’t disagree that what you describe is the case for some people, but as a non-psych-professional with very direct, personal experience in this matter, I would be careful not to generalize how people do or don’t act when they’re considering ending vs preparing to end their lives. Sometimes, people who show that they need help will never ask for it and/or will explicitly reject it when offered. Sometimes, people who ask for or accept an offer of help will immediately sabotage the potential effectiveness of that help. Sometimes, people broadcast in bright, red, flashing warning lights their intent to end their lives right up until the moment that they take action. Sometimes, people who withdraw socially have zero intent of harming themselves. It is, unfortunately, complicated. 😔
This is the classic "If someone expresses suicidal thoughts, they won't do it" argument. You cannot generalize it though and that idea has been disproven
I often withdraw from people when I hurt, not because I'm feeling suicidal (at my worst I simply remind myself that death will happen anyway, no need to hurry it), simply because at some point I lose my ability to handle people and I don't want to hurt my friends by being less friendly or by being sad around them. I can, thankfully, handle my own pain most of the time. Simply knowing that my friends love me is enough for me. People are different though, you should be careful about such generalisations. Like the other comments mentioned, people *are* complicated. *It is complicated.* Always take people seriously when they let you know that they are suicidal, never assume that people won't do anything if they've already told you about their plans to end their life. Of course they are asking for help, and it takes a lot of strength to tell your loved ones just how much you hurt.
they will never show you they are planning something unless it's a Freudian slip ( they say something on accident that serves as a hint) ...a lot of time you never see it coming ...
City life makes humans depressed. We are not insects, working day after day after day. We need slow mornings and slow-cooked meals, time to breathe and time to listen to the sound of silence. We need family and friends around us, true relationships, not occasional relationships.
I have spent the last 1.6 years in a city for the first time. Working. Not working for the first time but in a city working. I have gone through many tragedies and traumas in my life. Working in this city day in and out has taken more of a toll than the situations of the past. I quit yesterday. Not life. But the job. It has been immediately relieving and only getting better each day. Now, I knew this day was coming and that I needed to leave as I reflected on how much I did not feel good about where I was and what I was doing. I started to save each month knowing I had to get away. Not a lot. Just what little I could manage with the costs of life here. I scraped together enough to safely quit, and let whatever the next transitions will be, happen with a little more ease. As I move, and let life unfold in the directions that are right for me, i will feel stressors, but I won't be in the city, and I will remember what it was like trying to live the busy life. The one that was not for me. I will choose having bare minimum over slaving away for a flashy life any day. One helpful takeaway from my experience, for myself at least, is to act in accordance with my values. If I lack clarity in my choices or values, once those become clear, act. Even through the fear. Don't stay and suffer. There is not much I cannot do. It will always work out.
You’re wrong. Country life is work. I was living on a rural farm after living in a city and it drove me almost to the point of ending it all, the lack of energy, of people, of movement, of lights, of life. So I moved back to where I’m from, Manhattan, and never felt more alive.
In my opinion, Margaret's story about Natalie really hits home. It's a reminder that we often hide our struggles behind a facade of success, and that can have serious consequences.
I resonate with the idea of 'perfectly hidden depression.' It's a reminder that appearances can be deceiving, and we need to cultivate a supportive environment where people can safely share their struggles.
I did that. Hide it well. Functional depression. Untill l surrendered and got honest. I got help. Mentioned the dreaded word...l have depression and have had all my life. I was the smiler. Then the trauma healing began. In gratitude.
Saying this word is difficult to me to this day, it’s wild. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to figure out a way in my recent therapy and we ended up stopping the therapy for now, because my therapist needed me to have a goal and I just couldn’t precisely say what I wanted to be different. Probably because I simply don’t know it different for all my life Edit: thanks for sharing and I’m so happy for you that you found a better way, it honestly gave me hope 🫶🏻
A clue for when someone is about to go through suicide is that they all of the sudden look extra happy but not because they’re actually happy. They may go around telling family members they love them. They’ll be extra helpful. They’ll be like their old selves before their depression. It’s because they’ve made peace with their decision and they look forward to the moment that they can finally end their pain. They see that moment as closure.
A long time ago (over a decade), I made my suicide kit; just having it ready and knowing that I had the option to check out if I couldn't take it any more... it took such a weight off me. I no longer felt trapped, I felt in control. I started to focus less on the negatives and more on the positive things in life that I would miss when I was gone, and I'm fortunate that my life turned around and I have slowly healed over time through work and self-understanding. Most of the people around me would never guess how close I came to giving up.
Thank you Dr. Rutherford. This is an insightful dissection of hidden depression. I've been a psychiatric nurse for 40 yrs, and have never heard the silent struggle brought to light so clearly. So many people need to hear this message. If we could all offer a smile, and an ear, to each other, it might make a difference to someone in need. Blessings to you and your team.
It’s true many of us feel this way. I usually feel different tomorrow so if I can stay distracted by anything until I’m tired enough to sleep, I have a new day and hope the sun is warm on me tomorrow
@@colleenwisch3497 Thank you for your comment Colleen. It's true that if we can get through to 'tomorrow', we have hope for a new day. I have found select music, a walk with Mother Nature through the seasons, and a shared cup of tea with a neighbour or a coworker can make a difference, for them and for myself. Making plans for a 'tomorrow activity' can give us all something to look forward to and a reason to get out of bed. Blessings to you and yours. Enjoy a cuppa tea while you commune with nature. Planting a garden, no matter how small, means we have hope for the future. Gardening is therapy. 🌷
Margaret's story of Michael shows that even successful people can carry hidden pain. It's a lesson in not judging someone's well-being solely based on appearances.
This isn't the first I've heard with people struggling with how the medical model of mental illness is presented and taught. It's a wake-up call to look beyond checklists and truly connect with people's feelings.
Check lists are so low of a thing 😭..they put people in a box even worse its like a way of creating bias about people ,they are a google place away .( just easy to navigate and find a narrative you want to hear on a certain pyschology label )they are now used for scape goating people in our interactions ..felt happy a preacher talked about the danger of pyschology in our times ..yesterday.i regret running online to solve issues ..fluid intelligence seems comes from God even for experts to attain it ..labels are very dehumanizing doesnt matter if they are good labels your enforcing an enclosed identity on someone .
this talk made me realize how much energy I spend trying to look "normal" all the time. It's exhausting. like, what if we all just agreed to drop the act for a day? wonder how differently we'd be able to see each other
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone." Human beings can only take so much of others' pain before rejecting them. Depressed people know this. What needs to exist is excellent, intuitive therapists who can empathize and help people express, and work out how to get beyond, their pain. And that's not what drug and money-oriented, oxymoronic "health care" does.
Healthcare has changed so much in the last 15-20 years. None for the better in my opinion. The avenues to seek mental health care seems to have declined also. While fear mongering in our media has intensified.
Well said, very well said. I once had an excellent, intuitive therapist, trained in the 70s when depth and dedication was not a novel combination. She was invaluable. I have never, since her death, long ago, found anyone near-suitable to replace her. I know a man who was also her client. He cannot find anyone to replace her either; we have both tried. And we have both learned no therapist is better than a bad one. So few now have her combination of qualities we took to MEAN what a therapist is made of: attunement, integrity, fluid intelligence, receptive sensitivity.
Human nature so you have to endeavor to be happy sometimes even force the happiness for people to tolerate you if not danger ahead i knew it but it overpowered me last few years .
The connection between perfectionism and depression is so real. High achievers often struggle silently, and it’s important to recognize that perfectionism can be a red flag.
As someone who’s dealt with depression I so much so appreciate Dr. Margaret’s advice and guidance around this topic. How many of us are blamed for how we feel? We need more conversations like this 🙌🏾
The part about depression looking different when its coupled with perfectionism really blew me away... even though depression is so common it makes sense that experiencing it would still be unique to the person, based on who they already are and how they deal with things. Makes sense that for some people you'd never be able to tell.
I don't share difficult feelings because most people jump into *I can fix you* mode which only makes me feel worse. It was a pivotal moment for me when, after i shared something painful with my therapist he responded " this belief must have been very difficult to carry. Most of us never have our deeply held beliefs honored. I will always try to honor and understand your beliefs "❤
it's so frustrating when you cant talk about problems and feeling without having people (specialy parents) tell you "just do this or that..." What i found helpful is to say straight "i dont want you to find me a solution, i just want you to ackowledge my feelings, my pain, my struggles..." It helps a lot, but some people still cannot do that, and that sadly, i think we must accept that some people we really love and care about simply cannot always understand or support us. Glad you could find a therapis who could give you that compassionate and respectuous hearing
Yes when I tell my boyfriend about my PTSD, he tries to fix my problems and that's not what I'm asking for. In fact I'm not asking for anything. Sometimes I just need to talk about how I feel.
The thing that gets me is well-meaning friends constantly asking "How are you feeling now/today?", as if I can answer this; as if my depression has changed since yesterday, or the last two weeks, or the last 6 months. I have to ignore them. It seems ungrateful but I can't answer them. I can't say how awful the same awfulness is day after day.
My psychologist once asked me to draw how I feel. I drew myself exactly as she's describing, inside a shell, trying to hide and protect myself. Through some holes in the shell I drew my abusive narcissist father trying to sneak in, and COVID also trying to sneak in (I've been severely sick with long COVID for the past year and a half). Outside the shell I drew a barrier in front of my shell and some people at the other side, looking away from the whole scene. Those were my whole family and friends. Choosing to ignore my situation and not even show support in the form of a call or a WhatsApp. They preferred not to know which situation i was in. As we say in Spanish: eyes that don't see, heart that doesn't feel. After the therapy session, I showed the picture to my boyfriend. And his reaction was the best ever. He got a pen and drew himself in the shell with me, with a sword. He said: I'm in there with you and I will protect you. Then he drew our dog in the shell too, and he said, she's also in there with us, she can't protect you much, but she's fluffy and cute. That was honestly the best response and reaction ever. I do not have many people around me, in fact I only have one person and a dog. But the truth is, their quality is the best and I know they will be there unconditionally and for ever. So I consider myself very fortunate to have such a supportive small family, even if as I say, it's small.
As someone who can relate, I think your boyfriend's response/reaction to your drawing is the best. It's simple, "matter-of-factly", not dramatic. We all need that simplicity and calmness in our lives. I support you virtually 😅
when people say only selfish people would commit suicide it has only strengthened my reasonings as to why that is not so, so it really defeats the purpose. I've had suicidal ideation on and off from the age of 11. At least now I know I don't want to die, I want what is triggering the thoughts to stop.
I feel like Margaret's experience with Michael does really well to show that sometimes the strongest people are the ones who've faced the darkest struggles. It's a reminder to be compassionate and understanding. I know a lot of people say this but it really rings true here - you never know what someone has gone through, or is still going through.
we need more talks like this that aren't afraid to get real about mental health. no sugarcoating, no bs, just straight talk about what it's really like to struggle. and more importantly, how we can help each other
Perfectly hidden depression is such an eerie concept. It’s scary how well some people can mask their struggles behind a façade of success and happiness.
Hopefully if enough people are vocal about the reality of their situations a common thread will emerge that helps us address the root cause of our depression because it really feels like everyone's got it.
I appreciate Margarets call to approach suicidal feelings with acceptance and understanding. It's essential to let people know they're not alone and that seeking help is a sign of strength, not weakness.
I agree but what if you genuinely can't relate? If you don't understand what they're going through? It can be hard to just fake it through a conversation like that
@@mikethesailor Hi Mike. You can simply ask them to explain to you what those feelings are like to have. You don't have to have had them yourself. Great question.
the idea that perfectionism could be a sign of depression is blowing my mind. Am I achieving things because I want to, or because I'm trying to get people to see me in a certain way?
Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against depression and anxiety. Saved my life.
Can you help with the reliable source I would really appreciate it. Many people talk about mushrooms and psychedelics but nobody talks about where to get them. Very hard to get a reliable source here in Australia. Really need!
Yes, dr.sporessss I have the same experience with anxiety, depression, PTSD and addiction and Mushrooms definitely made a huge huge difference to why am clean today.
it's what we do to eachother without even realizing or meaning to. because we have made emotion wrong in our society, and especially negative emotions, not understanding that negative emotions are an effect not a cause
never realized how asking the wrong questions could make someone clam up about their depression when they're trying to open up... glad to have seen this talk and to now be aware of this
This lecture affected on me so hard, would you know. Thanks to that woman, I've realized that I'm one of with hidden depression. Being ashamed of your problem, because "oh, you have lovely family and many friends, how can you have suicidal thoughts? ", it's very difficult, I understand every of you. I'm afraid that I'm not thankful enough to my parents. I'm afraid that if I tell them about my problems again, they will say that they gave everything they could to me and that's how you treat your parents? Oh, that a shame. I'm really struggling with those thought's. But I've been hidden them, even of myself. And that's, really really, difficult for me.. Thank to that lady, I'm so grateful that I've listened this lecture. Good luck to everyone, who's dealing with that problem too. We can handle that, I'm sure.
I'd invite you to look into more of my writing and talking about this since you identify with it so strongly. And you're more than welcome. There are many people who feel exactly the way you do.
The story about Natalie's hidden struggles really touched me. It reminds us that behind a seemingly perfect life, there can be immense pain. We need to look beyond appearances and offer support to those who are suffering silently
Yeah, I think it's important to be compassionate and kind to everyone, not just because they may be going through something but because all humans deserve that level of respect.
I think there's a lot to be said here about the hidden costs of keeping emotions concealed... it's not just about the emotional toll of trying to keep it all together and hidden, it's the lying to yourself part about it that's really dangerous.
"The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings but shorter tempers, wider freeways , but narrower viewpoints. We spend more but have less, we buy more but enjoy less. We have bigger houses and smaller families, more conveniences, but less time. We have more degrees but less sense, more knowledge but less judgment, more experts yet more problems, more medicine but less wellness." ~George Carlin
I never realized how important it is to address our secret feelings. It's true that denying their existence can lead to despair and hopelessness. We should create a culture where it's okay to express vulnerability and seek help
After many years of marriage I shared my depression and suicidal ideations with my husband. Meds for depression were just coming in to the mainstream and my husband supported me on this journey and helped me voice the need for medication. I was afraid of being labeled a drug addict. Between the meds and some talk and biblio therapy I was able to recognize my downward spirals and know that they could be managed. At some point my husband shared this with his mother, after all it’s his story too. My mother in law’s response to this was - well I’ve never been depressed a day in my life. It was soul crushing and judgmental. One of the many reasons we depressed people don’t share or ask for help.
Who cares what his mom's truth is to her. She may be lying to herself or honestly never experienced it. You have it and so do millions of people in this ole world. You recognize the truth. Seek out others who understand, like doctors and therapists who can help. I'm just a stranger but I care and I believe you and understand. You are loved and important.
Oddly you inspired me to continue writing my dad's eulogy - I grew up in a highly toxic, dysfunctional childhood and am a high functioning individual who broke into depression after my 2nd miscarriage. Thankfully my dad is still alive and has become a better human, and I'm thankful to have the time while he is alive to write about who he is with a more poignant perspective. Im okay now but damaged. My daily expressions of gratitude help to keep me more positive. Thank you for caring!!!
I think Margaret's talk underscores the fact that we need to be better at recognizing signs of pain in those around us. Let's be more aware and supportive.
I am so honored to know you and to have worked with you, Dr. Rutherford. This work is life-saving and it is my hope that we continue to reframe how we diagnose and treat these disorders.
Man going through this comment section is touqh... I knew there was a lot of pain in the world but seeing so many people baring their souls like this really puts it into perspective
To me, Margaret's message is clear: we need to change the way we approach mental health. It's time to break the stigma and have open conversations about our struggles. The more candid we are with one another the more it encourages all of those feelings and opinions around it to shift into more positive territory.
One of the things people tell me (and thanks so much for commenting) is about my own panic disorder. Rather than getting the response that I might've feared, people say they appreciate my own transparency. I hope I'm modeling that for them.. I think AA calls it, "If you talk the talk, then you gotta walk the walk. "
back in grade school, my classmates and i were talking about something i can't remember but I still remember that feeling. Me sitting and just LOOKING at the moment. I felt like suddenly I'm in an empty room and watching everyone talking like I'm watching tv. i felt detached. I still shake whenever I remember that day or feel that again. also, one time a special guest in school was making a speech at he joked about what if you die or not exist that every moment. I caught myself feeling very excited and has a flash of thought "can i really? can i just not exist now? i don't want to die i want to not exist" it was a very weird memory. I'm scared. I don't have motivations, aspirations or anything
I am diagnosed with Major Chronic Depression, Treatment Resistant and am currently on my down. When I talked with my doctor about more medication she surprised me : instead of the usual suicide question she asked me "have you had any negative thoughts recently" - and that opened the conversation up completely.
All of the things your feeling and experiencing right now is the choices that you wanted but assessing things you are doing helps us take a path where you will reach the heights of life higher than what you expected.
Reflecting on the talk, it's a call for empathy. Everyone's journey is unique, and creating spaces where we genuinely connect is key to fostering understanding.
everyone around me sees me as a mentally strong person. it was really very tough to open up to someone coz whenever i try to do it so far, people's reaction would be that it's normal for everyone and told to figure it out myself
One of the healthiest coping techniques I've learned is practicing mindfulness meditation in silence every day - either sitting on the floor in a chair sometimes, or even walking. Silence (especially being in nature) is a huge help. The book "30 Days to Reduce Depression" by Harper Daniels offers some cool mindfulness meditation exercises. Learning to observe my thoughts and enjoying moments of solitude were game changers.
The emphasis on the cost of keeping feelings hidden is powerful. It's not just about having secrets but the toll it takes on mental health. Like making yourself feel bad about making yourself bad.
Her message about changing our culture's perception of transparency as strength really resonate with me. It's time to shift our mindset and support each other in our struggles.
What Margaret says about understanding the perception of oneself and their world is really interesting. Mental health is complex and shouldn't be reduced to a checklist of symptoms the way our physical health is.
This is why I like poly-vagal theory and ideas of nervous system dysregulation - it's a normal response in the mind-body-self to shut down in the face of overwhelming threat. Depression can be the emotional version of that. Teaching people about normal human emotional and physical survival responses, and how you can get stuck in them, really helps take away some of the burden and open up pathways forward into safety, ease and healing. Specifically not showing pain and weakness can also be a stuck threat response, stemming from early experiences where expression simply felt too unsafe and disruptive to your bond with your care-givers, at an age for you when they were absolutely needed to stay alive. Compassionate acceptance is needed for this as well, social safety. When you can feel safe (in your own body sensations and perceptions, and safety in relationship to others) it is much easier to be more open with others and process what needs to processed.
Glad to have gotten to this video. Told my husband how I'm really feeling with having suicidal thoughts. He understood. It was amazing to hear him care for me.
I find Margaret's idea of "perfectly hidden depression" intriguing. It's a reminder that appearances can be deceiving, and we should try to be more attuned to each other's emotional well-being, especially those we care about
When I started talking about depression and suicidal thoughts online, I would just barely mention the issue before darting away. I was so afraid to admit that I thought about such things. Then my son took his own life. It's still not easy-peasy to write about those thoughts and feelings. But I understand, as the speaker here says, we have to accept that it's a common thing. Don't be ashamed or think you're the only one--you're really not.
I first had depression about 3 yrs after death of our son. My husband was very ill. My mother was having 2nd surgery for cancer that returned. My father was having sm heart attacks. My sleep got down to 2 hrs a day. My worst nightmare was all 3 going into hospital at same time and all dying. They did all go to hosp from Sun night to Tues. Mom died. Father went home. Husband came home. I saw doctor. I had depression! My parents thought depressed people were weak and did not discuss subject at all. Like it was leprosy or VD. Since then I have had recurrences. I kept going to see a kind, quiet psychiatrist. Some did not think much of that. I now talk openly about this. People need help, not condemnation.
it's kinda comforting to know I'm not alone in feeling this way. makes me feel less broken somehow. like, maybe there's hope for people like us who look fine on the outside but are struggling inside.
I lost a friend to suic!de. He had hidden it so well. I was told by another friend, when I expressed my pain, that his actions were selfish and I had to walk away from that friendship because of her callousness. There are people out there who will genuinely support you through your struggles. I experienced, how to say...a bit of survivor's guilt after his passing. Trying to convince myself, "Did I do enough to stop this?" His death still hurts me deeply after 10 years. I hope that anyone who is going through this it is okay to get help that works best for you. Take care. ❤
Margaret's talk prompts us to reflect on our own reactions when someone shares their struggles. Let's replace judgment with compassion and offer a listening ear.
Thankyou for caring about people whom suffer from suicidal ideation. Judgement creates shame and a silent suffering. Being non-judgemental and listening offers an opportunity for one to be heard and provides hope. Hope can save lives.
The call for transparency and acceptance is powerful. We need to create an environment where people feel comfortable sharing their pain without fear of judgment.
Mental health is complex. It's not just about hiding feelings; sometimes, people genuinely don't understand what they're going through.
I very much agree that a protective process can become unconscious and thus, the person has very little true understanding of what’s happening or why. Which can make it all the more dangerous. Thank you for your comment John.
This is an interesting point and probably quite true for all the people who are taught to suppress their emotions
Many traumatic childhoods lead to dissociation, what per se make the entire understanding and acknowledging of emotions hard. I'm one of those kind of people, and I can say that after many years fleeing from the sadness and uncomfortable feelings, I got pretty good at not being aware of any feeling, while simultaneously suffering deep within.
This comment really resonates, thanks for putting it so clearly. I was told I had a mild depression even when I was able to admit that I dealt with suicidal thoughts and letting that guide me when I was really tired 😅. Though I do remember the masking even when in therapy, not deliberately but due to feeling so ashamed and also 'bad' that I was making people worried even though I was functioning like normal
It’s not that hard when we reject the entire DSM. 😊
I fixed myself this way. Best to you. ❤
Sometimes people get so good at hiding it they're even hiding it from themselves.
Exactly. Except it’s not gone. And can still have a destructive impact.
so true, so very true.
perfectly worded. may we all find clarity and peace
Bingo
@@shasings yes, tnx
I don't think the world is ready to acknowledge just how large of a pain scale we are all on
Yep, true.
Witnessing people here in comments already opens the tiny light.
Yes. We all need a savior.
@@theviolinvoice4173no! Save yourself like I did. No one is better equipped to save you than YOURSELF. You know all your secrets. Be your own hero!
Religion lies to us when it states we must give in to God or a higher power. Children are groomed by a poisonous ideology when we are too impressionable to decide for ourselves. Christians (and most Western religions, new beliefs systems BTW) think a father figure is always watching. Sound familiar?
Stop turning the other cheek. Get mad temporarily at your parents and caregivers for locking you into this false ideology. If God existed no one would go wanting and evildoers would be punished!
Henry Kissinger lived to be 100.
Also… hang on to your hat… I’ve read every DSM. All diagnostic models used are theoretical. None were created using the scientific method. Autistic people like me are described as 2/3 of a person! Nonsense.
Think for yourself. Research the origins of widely used methods that fail continuously. To wit, bipolar, schizophrenia and borderline aren’t real, just untested theories.
Best of luck with a full recovery! ❤
Yes. SO true!!!
@@theviolinvoice4173 ...and may the gods preserve me from religions.
The part about perfectionism alongside depression is just... so accurate.
Absolutely. That part hit home pretty hard.
I can't imagine how difficult those two things together would be
@@aldennoname Very difficult..
I saw myself clearly...
Add being intellectually gifted and always getting most things done quite good without too much thinking about it or anyone ever wondering how (including yourself) into the mix, I really hate it and understood way to late in life how this mix was the perfect recipe for my deteriorating mental state. Still working on it
Treating suicidal feelings as normal feelings is a game-changer. It's about destigmatizing these emotions and creating a space for open dialogue, I am all for this.
💯💯💯
We can all …so that “Transparency is seen as strength”…imagine the power this inner emancipation would have on a communal, societal level. Thank you for this video❤
I would say "common", not "normal". But otherwise agree. Dialogue is necessary and lacking.
One of the best descriptions of how it feels I’ve ever seen was “I don’t want to die, I just don’t want to be here anymore”.
Or 'i just it to stop'
The desire to not exist vs the desire to die/commit suicide.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I’m sitting here today thinking the same thing. I don’t want the pain anymore.
my husband is chronically ill and in pain. he says he wants to die every day. i hear it all the time. i am so sad and cry all the time. no help with him and i work too. we need support!!
That is just how I feel
We hide these feelings because we are told we are “too dramatic”, or “you have nothing to be depressed about”, etc. After a while, we shut down.
Absolutely true. I have gotten this mostly from family. They have no clue. But I don’t share with them anymore. I know the people that have my back and truly love me unconditionally
Let your instinct flow into you if your really comfortable with someone. What you see to them in your first meet is what you’ll see throughout.
happened to me, yeah. never talk to anyone about my real feelings anymore after being told I'm too dramatic. they don't bother to listen, why should I be bothered to tell truth.
Oooooh, my favorite "It could be worse, be grateful" 🥲 Yeah, thanks, so helpful 👍
The worst part is that you can't really argue with that - this is true. But for me not being able to enjoy my life, to find a reason to get up in the morning is quite a catastrophe. Like every end of life is. Mine already feels like an ended one, so why pretend I want this to continue? This "Be grateful" only makes you feel judged, and rejected, and misunderstood. Nothing close to connection - the essential healing ingredient.
But, to be fair, I don't believe in connection, so I don't seek it. I have almost chosen to be depressed all alone and try to help myself however I can. For now, I choose not to harm myself physically, it's a taboo
15:55 15:55 ❤
Is it bad of me to say that it's a little comforting to know so many other people are feeling this way?
Not at all. You are not alone.😊
It’s not bad. We’re all looking for you too and feel relief. Thank you for sharing this emotional weird trauma with us. ❤
Not at all. No one wants to suffer alone 😔
No, not bad but rather strange, in my opinion. It was/is never comforting to me to know that other people are going through similar or even bigger pain
So many of us have that feeling at some time or the other. 😬😉😇
Suicidal people usually don't want to die. They want the pain of their life to stop.
I heard recently that is even a cognitive mechanism to want to die, is the brain wanting to stop the intense pain. If we can understand these thoughts as a brain mechanism maybe we can replace it with others
@@lurelurche Very interesting
That statement made me cry. It’s been almost 10 years since I was in the back of an ambulance after having a ptsd episode. The emt asked me what happened during the drive and I told him things got a little crazy and I lost control of my emotions and just wanted it to stop. He told me he was a vet and had ptsd himself and that “sometimes I get a little crazy too”. I was 16 at the time and felt so alone in my battle with ptsd and panic disorder; he reached out his hand when I needed it most. That’s when I realized I wasn’t alone, we all have each other. There’s so many of us out there who have struggled in silence. You don’t have to be alone. We pass each other everyday and don’t even realize how much we have in common. I know it’s hard to believe but things get better and there are people out there that understand your pain.
@@theoptimalspark8198 saying "you're not alone." isn't really helpful. I always feel alone. Everytime I try to reach out, no one really cares because they're also busy living their own lives. We can't really burden other people with our problems, I guess.
.
This has definitely been true for me whenever I've felt suicidal. It's not even the depression but the anxiety that's excruciating. When I'm depressed, I know there will always be a better tomorrow. But with anxiety, I feel like a can't wait any longer for a better tomorrow to come.
It's such an important topic. I feel like depression is something that's really normalised in online spaces, but still absolutely terrifying to talk about in real life.
There's a sense of shame. Especially when your life is objectively "good" in many ways, and you wonder why you can't just get over it. You think to yourself that your struggles aren't as bad as others, that you have nothing to complain about, and you don't want to burden anyone with it when they have their own things going on. But retreating into yourself just makes it all pile up :(
I think it comes from practice... even though it's awful to think about it like that but I just mean that first conversation IRL is really tough of course but once you've done it it does get easier and easier.
Be open to people that you seem to be sure about it. Be careful always
I relate so much to your comment
Thank you to so many who've left comments and ideas and thoughts. I'm very grateful for the feedback and the community of thought.
This is exactly what i am concerned about .
Not everything can be theorized , as the symptoms a person is experiencing are complex and layered in nature.
As someone who will be a psychologist too in some years , I fear diagnosing my patients with the wrong mental illness..... Also , as you ended by saying you had a tear in your eye when he walked into the room smiling!! Can't wait to see my patients do that ❤🎉
Thank you so much for such an insightful talk .
Retired firefighter. Hid it for 40 years. A life lived in grayness. Ssri’s you name them. I recently started low dose ketamine. I feel much better. Keep research going for us
@@BEC4life10 I've been collaborating with clinicians and authors who've worked with first responders and know that this is huge in those fields. I'm so glad you've found relief and thank you for sharing your experience.
Improving slightly each week
thank you, I needed to see and hear this...
People at work would be shocked how I constantly think about suicide. I’m successful and respected. Always have a smile on my face and help others. When I’m not at work, I almost never leave my bed and sleep ALL THE TIME. I really think they’d be surprised.
Please get help ❤
Reach out now…soon…to a professional and begin to reveal yourself to another’s ears. The thoughts going around and around on a hamster wheel will keep you stuck in no man’s land. Your willingness to use your mouth and begin processing to another those thoughts will be your way out. It might take a long time but the way things are now it will be the best time you will ever spend…it is freedom to live a life, not pain free but with the tools to cope with life’s challenges. You are smart, but now you must be wise and speak your feelings to another…trust and broaden your understanding of yourself. You are worthy, now damn it…get going! Love and hugs always…
You are far from alone. Having compassion and understanding of how it became vital to armor yourself with looking successful is so very important. I hope you'll allow this first step to speak your truth to become one of many. Please take care.
Please get help as soon as possible
I completely understand. Same.
For what it’s worth, you DID listen to your gut. You DID take action. You DID save Natalie’s life.
I know it’s human nature to beat yourself up over the what-ifs, but you did EVERYTHING right. You are the therapist we all need ❤
What a kind thing to say. Thank you.
shout out to Natalie's husband too for asking for help because he knew his wife well enough to know something was wrong
"To be clear, suicide is not normal, its thoughts about suicide is normal" Someone finally said it, it just shows everyone has a limit on how much they can endure
One thing I learned : one who understands depression is the one who have faced it and feel it by own personally. Most difficult phase is when one want to express about the same but don't have anybody to talk, to discuss and to understand.
Thank you for sharing this.
True 👍
Yes you're right. Because i experienced this and i very thankful and blessed because God never Leave me.
And worse still, am even feeling like even when I talk to God, it's like he is not listening at all 😢 I have no one to talk talk and it's killing me inside
Just having one person acknowledge your suffering and experiences helps validate your experience. My current therapist wanted me to do something else but I could never figure out what she wanted me to do.
@@JoyMwaangaoh my! This is so true...right now I feel like God doesn't exist though...it's like a weird feeling when you see people around you who has their own religious practices. Plus, their prayers are being answered. So, yea I don't even know of what religion I am...it's like blank
The number of times I’ve been told by professionals that we could end sessions because I sounded like I didn’t need help anymore… while I was screaming ‘NO I’m not’ inside, I couldn’t help but think… they must be right, they’re the professional, I must be exaggerating. It could’ve spared me a lot of deep dark times if only one of them had catched on to the facade I didn’t even know I was making. Thank you for bringing attention to this 🙏🏼
This is really interesting... what do you think made you not speak up? Was it purely just because you thought of them as knowing best?
@@EverDragMedia yes my trust in my own gut was very thin because of how used I was to people pleasing and masking. If you always talk yourself into the truth of someone else, you disconnect from your own truth. Together with the ‘hierarchy’ of a professional I would believe they knew better than I did. Only after the fourth time this happened I vocalized this screaming no inside me and I got the help I needed.
I even told my therapist that I’m really good at talking but really don’t say anything of value.
Trying to say he will need to see past that and dig to get anything real. It didn’t help 2.5yrs later only just past the surface and only because it’s been so long
I’m at the exact same spot at the moment. Ended therapy and it’s not going well without it. I’m just not able to say what has to change for me or what I want to change because I simply don’t know
YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've literally never thought that perfectionism might be masking something deeper. It's a pretty interesting thought.
You never realized perfectionism is a serious mental health issue until just now?? Do you also believe smoking crack is healthy?
Perfectionism has been thought of a reflection of anxiety much more than depression. So there are many who are surprised at this thought.
Perfectionism can be debilitating. It feeds my anxiety/depression constantly. "I can't do it perfectly, so how/why can I do it at all."
@@missd369I feel exactly the same, I think the root is possibly because I was celebrated for my academic achievements when I was little and it made me only associate love with doing well so I became anxious about being perfect all the time then beat myself up when I was just ‘average’ and saw it as shame and complete failure. I eventually became terrified of trying at all in case I fell short and it’s had a hold of me for decades, I don’t know how to fight it when it feels like it’s hardwired.
I'm a 60 something retired UK tradesman. I was able to charge up to five times what normal tradesman charged and people were happy to pay it - all my work was recommendation. I made less money than other tradesman who charged standard rates and were not too fussy. Perfection does not exist. I could have charged 10x more and still perfection just cannot exist. My customers held me in such high esteem I thought if they could see the tiny defects in my work that probably only I could see that they would be disappointed in me and realise how unworthy of their high regard I am. For me, any defect or potential criticism was a sign that I simply did not measure up and was unworthy. In my case it was about self-worth and how I do not have it innately and probably a lifetime of trying to manufacture it.
Margaret's concept of "perfectly hidden depression" shines a light on the importance of understanding the complexity of mental health. It's a nuanced perspective.
Thank you Regina for your support and comment.
very nuanced ..someone talked of …fluid intelligence ..that good therapists should have.
Someone suicidal will not let it show if they're planning to end their life because they don't want to alarm anyone who could try to stop them. If someone shows they need help, that's exactly what it is: they're not yet at that point of putting a plan into action to die; they are asking for help. It's not complicated. People who erase themselves from the social environment are slowly trying to not be missed, eventually. It's gradual sometimes. If psych professionals understand this, they'll be more likely to help.
I don’t disagree that what you describe is the case for some people, but as a non-psych-professional with very direct, personal experience in this matter, I would be careful not to generalize how people do or don’t act when they’re considering ending vs preparing to end their lives. Sometimes, people who show that they need help will never ask for it and/or will explicitly reject it when offered. Sometimes, people who ask for or accept an offer of help will immediately sabotage the potential effectiveness of that help. Sometimes, people broadcast in bright, red, flashing warning lights their intent to end their lives right up until the moment that they take action. Sometimes, people who withdraw socially have zero intent of harming themselves. It is, unfortunately, complicated. 😔
@@mrsb50It should always be taken seriously
This is the classic "If someone expresses suicidal thoughts, they won't do it" argument. You cannot generalize it though and that idea has been disproven
I often withdraw from people when I hurt, not because I'm feeling suicidal (at my worst I simply remind myself that death will happen anyway, no need to hurry it), simply because at some point I lose my ability to handle people and I don't want to hurt my friends by being less friendly or by being sad around them. I can, thankfully, handle my own pain most of the time. Simply knowing that my friends love me is enough for me.
People are different though, you should be careful about such generalisations. Like the other comments mentioned, people *are* complicated. *It is complicated.* Always take people seriously when they let you know that they are suicidal, never assume that people won't do anything if they've already told you about their plans to end their life. Of course they are asking for help, and it takes a lot of strength to tell your loved ones just how much you hurt.
they will never show you they are planning something unless it's a Freudian slip ( they say something on accident that serves as a hint) ...a lot of time you never see it coming ...
Natalie's silent struggles are a stark reminder that we might not really know the people around us. It's time to pay attention.
City life makes humans depressed. We are not insects, working day after day after day. We need slow mornings and slow-cooked meals, time to breathe and time to listen to the sound of silence. We need family and friends around us, true relationships, not occasional relationships.
!!!
I have spent the last 1.6 years in a city for the first time. Working. Not working for the first time but in a city working. I have gone through many tragedies and traumas in my life. Working in this city day in and out has taken more of a toll than the situations of the past. I quit yesterday. Not life. But the job. It has been immediately relieving and only getting better each day.
Now, I knew this day was coming and that I needed to leave as I reflected on how much I did not feel good about where I was and what I was doing. I started to save each month knowing I had to get away. Not a lot. Just what little I could manage with the costs of life here. I scraped together enough to safely quit, and let whatever the next transitions will be, happen with a little more ease.
As I move, and let life unfold in the directions that are right for me, i will feel stressors, but I won't be in the city, and I will remember what it was like trying to live the busy life. The one that was not for me.
I will choose having bare minimum over slaving away for a flashy life any day.
One helpful takeaway from my experience, for myself at least, is to act in accordance with my values. If I lack clarity in my choices or values, once those become clear, act. Even through the fear. Don't stay and suffer. There is not much I cannot do. It will always work out.
Well said. ❤
You’re wrong. Country life is work. I was living on a rural farm after living in a city and it drove me almost to the point of ending it all, the lack of energy, of people, of movement, of lights, of life. So I moved back to where I’m from, Manhattan, and never felt more alive.
occasional relationship 🥲🫥
In my opinion, Margaret's story about Natalie really hits home. It's a reminder that we often hide our struggles behind a facade of success, and that can have serious consequences.
Absolutely. That story was heart-wrenching
I resonate with the idea of 'perfectly hidden depression.' It's a reminder that appearances can be deceiving, and we need to cultivate a supportive environment where people can safely share their struggles.
I so agree. I've grown a much greater awareness of what "seems" and distinguish it from what likely "is." Thank you for commenting.
I did that. Hide it well. Functional depression. Untill l surrendered and got honest. I got help. Mentioned the dreaded word...l have depression and have had all my life. I was the smiler. Then the trauma healing began. In gratitude.
I'm so appreciative of you sharing your story. Here. In the open. You have no idea how many you might help. And of course.. you're welcome.
Saying this word is difficult to me to this day, it’s wild. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to figure out a way in my recent therapy and we ended up stopping the therapy for now, because my therapist needed me to have a goal and I just couldn’t precisely say what I wanted to be different. Probably because I simply don’t know it different for all my life
Edit: thanks for sharing and I’m so happy for you that you found a better way, it honestly gave me hope 🫶🏻
A clue for when someone is about to go through suicide is that they all of the sudden look extra happy but not because they’re actually happy.
They may go around telling family members they love them. They’ll be extra helpful. They’ll be like their old selves before their depression.
It’s because they’ve made peace with their decision and they look forward to the moment that they can finally end their pain. They see that moment as closure.
I started crying while reading your comment(
I found your comment comforting, they know the pain is soon to be over. That’s beautiful as well
A long time ago (over a decade), I made my suicide kit; just having it ready and knowing that I had the option to check out if I couldn't take it any more... it took such a weight off me. I no longer felt trapped, I felt in control. I started to focus less on the negatives and more on the positive things in life that I would miss when I was gone, and I'm fortunate that my life turned around and I have slowly healed over time through work and self-understanding.
Most of the people around me would never guess how close I came to giving up.
@@Elena-tq9vsI’m glad you didn’t do it . Thank you for sharing this 🙏🏼
Hoping this is me soon
Thank you Dr. Rutherford. This is an insightful dissection of hidden depression. I've been a psychiatric nurse for 40 yrs, and have never heard the silent struggle brought to light so clearly. So many people need to hear this message. If we could all offer a smile, and an ear, to each other, it might make a difference to someone in need. Blessings to you and your team.
I'm sure you have seen this over and over and am honored by your words. Thank you so much (And I do have a wonderful team!).
It’s true many of us feel this way. I usually feel different tomorrow so if I can stay distracted by anything until I’m tired enough to sleep, I have a new day and hope the sun is warm on me tomorrow
@@colleenwisch3497 Thank you for your comment Colleen. It's true that if we can get through to 'tomorrow', we have hope for a new day. I have found select music, a walk with Mother Nature through the seasons, and a shared cup of tea with a neighbour or a coworker can make a difference, for them and for myself. Making plans for a
'tomorrow activity' can give us all something to look forward to and a reason to get out of bed. Blessings to you and yours. Enjoy a cuppa tea while you commune with nature. Planting a garden, no matter how small, means we have hope for the future. Gardening is therapy. 🌷
Margaret's story of Michael shows that even successful people can carry hidden pain. It's a lesson in not judging someone's well-being solely based on appearances.
I've seen it over and over. There's no telling how many people there are who "seem" fine. Thank you so much for commenting.
This isn't the first I've heard with people struggling with how the medical model of mental illness is presented and taught. It's a wake-up call to look beyond checklists and truly connect with people's feelings.
Yes!
I hate checklists
Check lists are so low of a thing 😭..they put people in a box even worse its like a way of creating bias about people ,they are a google place away .( just easy to navigate and find a narrative you want to hear on a certain pyschology label )they are now used for scape goating people in our interactions ..felt happy a preacher talked about the danger of pyschology in our times ..yesterday.i regret running online to solve issues ..fluid intelligence seems comes from God even for experts to attain it ..labels are very dehumanizing doesnt matter if they are good labels your enforcing an enclosed identity on someone .
this talk made me realize how much energy I spend trying to look "normal" all the time. It's exhausting. like, what if we all just agreed to drop the act for a day? wonder how differently we'd be able to see each other
Sometimes "you are not alone" doesnt feel true. Because you actually see in your life that you are really completely alone.
Hidden pain is a real struggle for many. This really highlights the importance of acknowledging and supporting those who may be silently suffering.
Definitely, and understanding that it's probably a lot more people than we realize that are suffering
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone." Human beings can only take so much of others' pain before rejecting them. Depressed people know this. What needs to exist is excellent, intuitive therapists who can empathize and help people express, and work out how to get beyond, their pain. And that's not what drug and money-oriented, oxymoronic "health care" does.
Very true
Healthcare has changed so much in the last 15-20 years. None for the better in my opinion. The avenues to seek mental health care seems to have declined also. While fear mongering in our media has intensified.
Well said..global problem
Well said, very well said. I once had an excellent, intuitive therapist, trained in the 70s when depth and dedication was not a novel combination. She was invaluable. I have never, since her death, long ago, found anyone near-suitable to replace her. I know a man who was also her client. He cannot find anyone to replace her either; we have both tried. And we have both learned no therapist is better than a bad one. So few now have her combination of qualities we took to MEAN what a therapist is made of: attunement, integrity, fluid intelligence, receptive sensitivity.
Human nature so you have to endeavor to be happy sometimes even force the happiness for people to tolerate you if not danger ahead i knew it but it overpowered me last few years .
This talk made me realize how often we underestimate the pain someone might be going through behind closed doors.
Dr. Rutherford went viral because we needed to hear her message being delivered by her very self. What a beautiful delivery!
The connection between perfectionism and depression is so real. High achievers often struggle silently, and it’s important to recognize that perfectionism can be a red flag.
As someone who’s dealt with depression I so much so appreciate Dr. Margaret’s advice and guidance around this topic. How many of us are blamed for how we feel? We need more conversations like this 🙌🏾
The part about depression looking different when its coupled with perfectionism really blew me away... even though depression is so common it makes sense that experiencing it would still be unique to the person, based on who they already are and how they deal with things. Makes sense that for some people you'd never be able to tell.
I don't share difficult feelings because most people jump into *I can fix you* mode which only makes me feel worse.
It was a pivotal moment for me when, after i shared something painful with my therapist he responded " this belief must have been very difficult to carry. Most of us never have our deeply held beliefs honored. I will always try to honor and understand your beliefs "❤
it's so frustrating when you cant talk about problems and feeling without having people (specialy parents) tell you "just do this or that..." What i found helpful is to say straight "i dont want you to find me a solution, i just want you to ackowledge my feelings, my pain, my struggles..." It helps a lot, but some people still cannot do that, and that sadly, i think we must accept that some people we really love and care about simply cannot always understand or support us. Glad you could find a therapis who could give you that compassionate and respectuous hearing
Yes when I tell my boyfriend about my PTSD, he tries to fix my problems and that's not what I'm asking for. In fact I'm not asking for anything. Sometimes I just need to talk about how I feel.
You don't need fixing. There's nothing wrong with you. Wrong things happened to you. ❤🎉
The thing that gets me is well-meaning friends constantly asking "How are you feeling now/today?", as if I can answer this; as if my depression has changed since yesterday, or the last two weeks, or the last 6 months. I have to ignore them. It seems ungrateful but I can't answer them. I can't say how awful the same awfulness is day after day.
I so appreciate the openness with which you all share. It helps me to understand how I can be there for my son in the way he needs me to be.
My psychologist once asked me to draw how I feel. I drew myself exactly as she's describing, inside a shell, trying to hide and protect myself. Through some holes in the shell I drew my abusive narcissist father trying to sneak in, and COVID also trying to sneak in (I've been severely sick with long COVID for the past year and a half). Outside the shell I drew a barrier in front of my shell and some people at the other side, looking away from the whole scene. Those were my whole family and friends. Choosing to ignore my situation and not even show support in the form of a call or a WhatsApp. They preferred not to know which situation i was in. As we say in Spanish: eyes that don't see, heart that doesn't feel.
After the therapy session, I showed the picture to my boyfriend. And his reaction was the best ever. He got a pen and drew himself in the shell with me, with a sword. He said: I'm in there with you and I will protect you. Then he drew our dog in the shell too, and he said, she's also in there with us, she can't protect you much, but she's fluffy and cute.
That was honestly the best response and reaction ever. I do not have many people around me, in fact I only have one person and a dog. But the truth is, their quality is the best and I know they will be there unconditionally and for ever. So I consider myself very fortunate to have such a supportive small family, even if as I say, it's small.
As someone who can relate, I think your boyfriend's response/reaction to your drawing is the best. It's simple, "matter-of-factly", not dramatic. We all need that simplicity and calmness in our lives. I support you virtually 😅
when people say only selfish people would commit suicide it has only strengthened my reasonings as to why that is not so, so it really defeats the purpose. I've had suicidal ideation on and off from the age of 11. At least now I know I don't want to die, I want what is triggering the thoughts to stop.
Ketamine infusions helped me. ❤️ I hope you can find relief from the pain. Most people don’t understand. I sadly do. Sending you love.
I feel like Margaret's experience with Michael does really well to show that sometimes the strongest people are the ones who've faced the darkest struggles. It's a reminder to be compassionate and understanding. I know a lot of people say this but it really rings true here - you never know what someone has gone through, or is still going through.
we need more talks like this that aren't afraid to get real about mental health. no sugarcoating, no bs, just straight talk about what it's really like to struggle. and more importantly, how we can help each other
Perfectly hidden depression is such an eerie concept. It’s scary how well some people can mask their struggles behind a façade of success and happiness.
Hopefully if enough people are vocal about the reality of their situations a common thread will emerge that helps us address the root cause of our depression because it really feels like everyone's got it.
I appreciate Margarets call to approach suicidal feelings with acceptance and understanding. It's essential to let people know they're not alone and that seeking help is a sign of strength, not weakness.
Absolutely, well past time for this kind of reframe
I agree but what if you genuinely can't relate? If you don't understand what they're going through? It can be hard to just fake it through a conversation like that
@@mikethesailor Hi Mike. You can simply ask them to explain to you what those feelings are like to have. You don't have to have had them yourself. Great question.
@@mikethesailor This is such a good question. Best not to try and fake it, like Margaret says, I think it's okay to just ask them to elaborate.
Absolutely. I don't know where we got it all so backwards.
the idea that perfectionism could be a sign of depression is blowing my mind. Am I achieving things because I want to, or because I'm trying to get people to see me in a certain way?
Great question. I hope my work can help you find an answer.
It's not always about being "depressed", sometimes it's just unbearable pain that you can't escape
Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against depression and anxiety. Saved my life.
Can you help with the reliable source I would really appreciate it. Many people talk about mushrooms and psychedelics but nobody talks about where to get them. Very hard to get a reliable source here in Australia. Really need!
Yes, dr.sporessss I have the same experience with anxiety, depression, PTSD and addiction and Mushrooms definitely made a huge huge difference to why am clean today.
Is he on instagram?
Yes he is. dr.sporessss
Can Dr. sporessss send to me in UK?
Wow, Margaret's talk shook me. It's scary to think that someone could be suffering so much internally while appearing completely fine on the outside.
it's what we do to eachother without even realizing or meaning to. because we have made emotion wrong in our society, and especially negative emotions, not understanding that negative emotions are an effect not a cause
@@blue_sky_bright_sun7599 this is a very good point. The less we practice something the more alien and uncomfortable it becomes
never realized how asking the wrong questions could make someone clam up about their depression when they're trying to open up... glad to have seen this talk and to now be aware of this
This lecture affected on me so hard, would you know. Thanks to that woman, I've realized that I'm one of with hidden depression. Being ashamed of your problem, because "oh, you have lovely family and many friends, how can you have suicidal thoughts? ", it's very difficult, I understand every of you. I'm afraid that I'm not thankful enough to my parents. I'm afraid that if I tell them about my problems again, they will say that they gave everything they could to me and that's how you treat your parents? Oh, that a shame. I'm really struggling with those thought's. But I've been hidden them, even of myself. And that's, really really, difficult for me.. Thank to that lady, I'm so grateful that I've listened this lecture. Good luck to everyone, who's dealing with that problem too. We can handle that, I'm sure.
I'd invite you to look into more of my writing and talking about this since you identify with it so strongly. And you're more than welcome. There are many people who feel exactly the way you do.
The story about Natalie's hidden struggles really touched me. It reminds us that behind a seemingly perfect life, there can be immense pain. We need to look beyond appearances and offer support to those who are suffering silently
Yeah, I think it's important to be compassionate and kind to everyone, not just because they may be going through something but because all humans deserve that level of respect.
😮
Absolutely. Not enough people want to give it though@@mikethesailor
I think there's a lot to be said here about the hidden costs of keeping emotions concealed... it's not just about the emotional toll of trying to keep it all together and hidden, it's the lying to yourself part about it that's really dangerous.
a reminder that healing requires both self-compassion and support.
Absolutely.
"The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings but shorter tempers, wider freeways , but narrower viewpoints. We spend more but have less, we buy more but enjoy less. We have bigger houses and smaller families, more conveniences, but less time. We have more degrees but less sense, more knowledge but less judgment, more experts yet more problems, more medicine but less wellness." ~George Carlin
Thanks for quoting the great one ‼️‼️‼️👏🏽
VERITAS💯
Love love loved him!
I never realized how important it is to address our secret feelings. It's true that denying their existence can lead to despair and hopelessness. We should create a culture where it's okay to express vulnerability and seek help
After many years of marriage I shared my depression and suicidal ideations with my husband. Meds for depression were just coming in to the mainstream and my husband supported me on this journey and helped me voice the need for medication. I was afraid of being labeled a drug addict. Between the meds and some talk and biblio therapy I was able to recognize my downward spirals and know that they could be managed. At some point my husband shared this with his mother, after all it’s his story too. My mother in law’s response to this was - well I’ve never been depressed a day in my life. It was soul crushing and judgmental. One of the many reasons we depressed people don’t share or ask for help.
Who cares what his mom's truth is to her. She may be lying to herself or honestly never experienced it. You have it and so do millions of people in this ole world. You recognize the truth. Seek out others who understand, like doctors and therapists who can help. I'm just a stranger but I care and I believe you and understand. You are loved and important.
Oddly you inspired me to continue writing my dad's eulogy - I grew up in a highly toxic, dysfunctional childhood and am a high functioning individual who broke into depression after my 2nd miscarriage. Thankfully my dad is still alive and has become a better human, and I'm thankful to have the time while he is alive to write about who he is with a more poignant perspective. Im okay now but damaged. My daily expressions of gratitude help to keep me more positive. Thank you for caring!!!
I think Margaret's talk underscores the fact that we need to be better at recognizing signs of pain in those around us. Let's be more aware and supportive.
Michael's story brought tears of joy. After surviving a childhood of abuse his recovery gives hope for those of us in a similar situation.
this could be the most important TED I have ever seen - bless you Dr Rutherford!
🫶🏾same .Looking through issues with a diagnostic model delays the desired results ..struggled with this turned to self loathing at one moment.
I am so honored to know you and to have worked with you, Dr. Rutherford. This work is life-saving and it is my hope that we continue to reframe how we diagnose and treat these disorders.
Imagine a world where expressing our deepest pains is seen as an act of courage and strength. I think that's a vision worth striving for.
It's really wild to think about how a simple conversation could save someones life.
Man going through this comment section is touqh... I knew there was a lot of pain in the world but seeing so many people baring their souls like this really puts it into perspective
To me, Margaret's message is clear: we need to change the way we approach mental health. It's time to break the stigma and have open conversations about our struggles. The more candid we are with one another the more it encourages all of those feelings and opinions around it to shift into more positive territory.
One of the things people tell me (and thanks so much for commenting) is about my own panic disorder. Rather than getting the response that I might've feared, people say they appreciate my own transparency. I hope I'm modeling that for them.. I think AA calls it, "If you talk the talk, then you gotta walk the walk. "
Yeah, absolutely. The 3:47 mark, where she says "can you imagine a world where talking about these secrets is not shameful?" honestly made me teary.
Yes I agree! That was the thing that stood out for me as well
I like that the talk challenges us to see beyond the surface. There's often so much happening with people behind the scenes.
This made me think about how I can make it easier for my kids to talk about their feelings. I don't want them bottling stuff up.
Yes!!!
@@DrMargaretRutherford ill work it, your talk is great
back in grade school, my classmates and i were talking about something i can't remember but I still remember that feeling. Me sitting and just LOOKING at the moment. I felt like suddenly I'm in an empty room and watching everyone talking like I'm watching tv. i felt detached. I still shake whenever I remember that day or feel that again.
also, one time a special guest in school was making a speech at he joked about what if you die or not exist that every moment. I caught myself feeling very excited and has a flash of thought "can i really? can i just not exist now? i don't want to die i want to not exist" it was a very weird memory. I'm scared. I don't have motivations, aspirations or anything
As a misfit w sui... thoughts as early as 5 or 6. Hearing issues in other countries etc hoping to some day contribute to solutions kept me going.
❤❤
Michael's journey from self-loathing to self-compassion is a testament to the strength found in embracing vulnerability.
I’m trying not to sabotage my self. I’m learning to take deep even breaths and sometimes sit on my hands because this too shall pass.
Yes, beautifully put. This too shall pass!
i sit on my hands too!!!
I like that saying. I also like: HOPE Hold On Pain Ends
Dr. Margaret is a pioneer in our industry. This topic is SO important - Bless her for shedding light.
So true, there were a lot of interesting points here, will definitely be sharing
I am diagnosed with Major Chronic Depression, Treatment Resistant and am currently on my down. When I talked with my doctor about more medication she surprised me : instead of the usual suicide question she asked me "have you had any negative thoughts recently" - and that opened the conversation up completely.
Now I understand why being true to yourself is so important for mental health...
All of the things your feeling and experiencing right now is the choices that you wanted but assessing things you are doing helps us take a path where you will reach the heights of life higher than what you expected.
Being true to yourself what matters the most in life because it enables us to do things naturally without unnecesary things.
Reflecting on the talk, it's a call for empathy. Everyone's journey is unique, and creating spaces where we genuinely connect is key to fostering understanding.
This talk struck a chord. It's a reminder that behind every smile, there could be battles we know nothing about.
Absolutely, which is why it's so important to be supporting each other. Have the courage to ask someone if they're okay rather than just wondering
everyone around me sees me as a mentally strong person. it was really very tough to open up to someone coz whenever i try to do it so far, people's reaction would be that it's normal for everyone and told to figure it out myself
I’m always cheerful to my family and my friends, yet I cry myself to sleep and have the thought of not existing atleast once a day
😢
Same.
You have purpose, please hang in there and give yourself time. Please find someone to talk to. You're so needed and loved
As someone who has faced their own battles, this talk resonates deeply. The struggle to maintain a facade of perfection is real.
One of the healthiest coping techniques I've learned is practicing mindfulness meditation in silence every day - either sitting on the floor in a chair sometimes, or even walking. Silence (especially being in nature) is a huge help. The book "30 Days to Reduce Depression" by Harper Daniels offers some cool mindfulness meditation exercises. Learning to observe my thoughts and enjoying moments of solitude were game changers.
I so agree. I don't know that book but will look at it. Mindfulness can help you "note" what you're feeling but not get quite so absorbed by it.
The emphasis on the cost of keeping feelings hidden is powerful. It's not just about having secrets but the toll it takes on mental health. Like making yourself feel bad about making yourself bad.
Her message about changing our culture's perception of transparency as strength really resonate with me. It's time to shift our mindset and support each other in our struggles.
I'm crying. I needed to hear that. Thank you.
What Margaret says about understanding the perception of oneself and their world is really interesting. Mental health is complex and shouldn't be reduced to a checklist of symptoms the way our physical health is.
Absolutely. I guess it's important to think about how you're showing up in the world?
Honestly I'm not 100% sure about what she means but it made me think!
Michael's journey from self-loathing to self-compassion is inspiring. It shows that there's hope even in the darkest moments.
This is why I like poly-vagal theory and ideas of nervous system dysregulation - it's a normal response in the mind-body-self to shut down in the face of overwhelming threat. Depression can be the emotional version of that. Teaching people about normal human emotional and physical survival responses, and how you can get stuck in them, really helps take away some of the burden and open up pathways forward into safety, ease and healing.
Specifically not showing pain and weakness can also be a stuck threat response, stemming from early experiences where expression simply felt too unsafe and disruptive to your bond with your care-givers, at an age for you when they were absolutely needed to stay alive. Compassionate acceptance is needed for this as well, social safety. When you can feel safe (in your own body sensations and perceptions, and safety in relationship to others) it is much easier to be more open with others and process what needs to processed.
I need to learn more about poly-vagal research and findings. Your comment has definitely encouraged me to do just that. Thank you Lily.
The talk emphasizes the cost of keeping feelings hidden. It's not just about secrets but the toll it takes on one's mental well-being.
Glad to have gotten to this video. Told my husband how I'm really feeling with having suicidal thoughts. He understood. It was amazing to hear him care for me.
I cannot tell you how happy I am for you and your husband. Thank you for letting me and so many others hear this part of your story and your life.
Yes! It makes all the difference.
I find Margaret's idea of "perfectly hidden depression" intriguing. It's a reminder that appearances can be deceiving, and we should try to be more attuned to each other's emotional well-being, especially those we care about
When I started talking about depression and suicidal thoughts online, I would just barely mention the issue before darting away. I was so afraid to admit that I thought about such things. Then my son took his own life. It's still not easy-peasy to write about those thoughts and feelings. But I understand, as the speaker here says, we have to accept that it's a common thing.
Don't be ashamed or think you're the only one--you're really not.
Of course it's not easy. Thank you for talking about your son and his death by suicide. I'm grateful to have you a part of this discussion.
I first had depression about 3 yrs after death of our son. My husband was very ill. My mother was having 2nd surgery for cancer that returned. My father was having sm heart attacks. My sleep got down to 2 hrs a day. My worst nightmare was all 3 going into hospital at same time and all dying. They did all go to hosp from Sun night to Tues. Mom died. Father went home. Husband came home. I saw doctor. I had depression! My parents thought depressed people were weak and did not discuss subject at all. Like it was leprosy or VD. Since then I have had recurrences. I kept going to see a kind, quiet psychiatrist. Some did not think much of that. I now talk
openly about this. People need help, not condemnation.
Sorry for your loss. I totally agree with you 🤍
Sounds like a heroic struggle to me. I'm so glad you didn't buy into the self-serving BS . God bless you with peace.
So sorry for your losses. So much stress!
Margaret's talk reminds me that we all need to be better listeners. Sometimes, a simple act of kindness and lending an ear can make a huge difference.
Absolutely, and I think people are more likely to open up to you if they know you're kind and patient
it's kinda comforting to know I'm not alone in feeling this way. makes me feel less broken somehow. like, maybe there's hope for people like us who look fine on the outside but are struggling inside.
So many times I would go to bed, asking not to wake up because the pain was so bad. Yet, I keep going. Won't give up.
I lost a friend to suic!de. He had hidden it so well. I was told by another friend, when I expressed my pain, that his actions were selfish and I had to walk away from that friendship because of her callousness. There are people out there who will genuinely support you through your struggles. I experienced, how to say...a bit of survivor's guilt after his passing. Trying to convince myself, "Did I do enough to stop this?" His death still hurts me deeply after 10 years. I hope that anyone who is going through this it is okay to get help that works best for you. Take care. ❤
Margaret's talk prompts us to reflect on our own reactions when someone shares their struggles. Let's replace judgment with compassion and offer a listening ear.
truth!
Thankyou for caring about people whom suffer from suicidal ideation. Judgement creates shame and a silent suffering. Being non-judgemental and listening offers an opportunity for one to be heard and provides hope. Hope can save lives.
My family & friends always say that I'm TOO SENSITIVE!! So now, I don't say anything. I just listen to them or mask it.
I wonder if we can learn to see vulnerability as strength, just like Margaret suggests. It's time to reframe our perspective on sharing our struggles.
The call for transparency and acceptance is powerful. We need to create an environment where people feel comfortable sharing their pain without fear of judgment.