Recasting OOP models is 100% fine in my opinion. If GW/FW, or any other company for that matter, doesn't want to produce it anymore for whatever reason, there should be ways for people to still get it if they want it without paying insane "oop/collector" prices.
Recasting and selling big corpo GW models is fine tbh. It's not a non-profit and GW makes a ridiculous mark up on its figures. Not to mention they've been very bad and limiting to their own fan community, and attempting to disney their competitors. You're not causing trouble for anyone at the ground level, unlike something like thievery or shoplifting. As for buying/making recasts for personal use, without a doubt that's 100% fine.
@@clinch4402 Those are a lot of excuses that would do the bloke in Nottingham working at GW's resin casting plant no good if they lost their job from a downturn due to recasting. OOP is fine but don't try and excuse in production recasting just because GW is a big company. Big companies have real people working there. Think on that.
I'd take roughly the same position on recasting as pirating video games: You don't do it right up until you can't get it legit. If a company isn't going to give you an option to pay them for the thing then that's too bad for them.
would it be crazy for GW to digitize their old models and offer them as 3dprint files on their site? they're already doing limited run reprints of old minis, and I get there's some bespokeness that may be lost, but it would remove a lot of overhead for them, and probably curb a huge chunk of the "losses" they incur from people recasting (even if it's out of print stuff) 🤷 edit for clarity: I'm not saying "put the 3d files up for free" of course, they would still make money off of their designs, just not have to deal with the manufacturing overhead... maybe that's where some of the confusion in the thread below comes from.
what you are describing is a cardinal sin for every profit oriented businessman. Never ever teach a man how to fish, so he has to come back to you, buying YOUR fish everyday. The execs at GW are gonna blow their brains out before they publish 3d printing files. Imaging rabies, foaming at the mouth dogs.
@@MrBiochronic I guess, but it's not like the tech is stuck in the days those business wisdoms came about... the scanning/modelling is readily available, the production has arrived at the consumer level... and it's already happening anyway. Just think it would be a smart move, although i'm unsure if it's short term or long term smart... one or the other at least.
GW won't sell STLs because they gotta get that money. They think they won't get you to buy a hundred spess mahreens if you have an STL and can print one a hundred times. I doubt that they woud even publicly acknowledge that 3D printing is a thing.
If it's out of print, I see no problem with recasting. As i see it, it just increases the variety we can have in our armies and painting, and lets people appreciate the details of older models without having the barrier of price that plagues alot of older models. I do think though, that reprints of models currently in print and being sold is wrong, though I think it's worth considering how reprints could increase the accessibility of miniature painting and allow new people to find and join the hobby. Generally though, I think it's best to just stick with buying reprints only when there's no viable alternative provided by the source of the original model.
Yeah, like in this case it’s being used to repair an original, and I feel fine about it. Where it starts to break down for me is when you’re talking about limited edition models. Like if everyone playing magic just had a black lotus and people didn’t have a problem with playing with a reprint, the original wouldn’t be worth so much money.
@@eBayMiniatureRescues as a collector of older products, I will still pay top dollar for an original OOP product and if anything in the last few years, the value of said models has gone up in value. There's still a place for the older lead/white metal creations on the shelves of collectors like me who are daft enough to pay the price for originality lol
Completely agree here, recast for OOP models only for repair purposes, if you sell it on later remember to mention it to the buyer. If it's being kept then it shouldn't matter as long as most of the model is original. I feel the same about parts generally as well and do cast myself for kit bashes if a kit comes with one of something and I want 3 and don't want to buy 2 more boxes for the part and then have the remaining contents doing nothing. I also trade parts as well for the cases of buying a box for most of the contents but not all of it.
There needs to be a recast bitseller just for this reason. There are so many parts that are just one in the box and if you lose it or get it destroyed you can't build your model.
I love how you have turned this channel from just painting to a whole platform about the hobby, with miniature, products and room for opinions and discussion. You have done an amazing job with this and it just keeps getting better. Thank you for the great content you are putting out!
love the paint job you did. recast wise, most of my opinions have be said by others in the chat. OOP is fine, restoration is fine, or if you just need a crapton of a specific part. where recasting is a benefit to me is for "risky" projects. like if you want a destroyed terrain piece using a FW model, Or get a recast for a project and use it as the practice run for a conversion/edit on a fw piece.
Honestly, with the prices you are asked up pay for official models, we get to expect immaculate high quality castings. Just remember that just a few models will set you back more than a new smartphone or laptop. So if the quality we get is mediocre or the support is ceased for older models, recasts are a good way to keep the market honest by demanding more quality control in a monopoly market.
way to go man! I love that you went outside the box and found a way to bring this model back to life. I agree with you that recasts are something that I don't feel is ok in most cases but I really like how you found this method! well done!
This is a very honorable approach which I think is awesome for one's own damaged models one has a strong emotional attachment to. But in truth if I want to have an OOP model, I do not buy damaged ones on ebay but perfectly fine ones straight from the recasters.
I think that GW could license out their oop figures to another company. That way, their older stuff would still be available, and they would be getting money for practically nothing.
Given Games Workshop's pricing policies and the quality of plastic they use .... is there gold hidden inside them or something? I totally don't mind recasts that have an reasonable price tag to them.
I don't know where I'd draw the line on the big-picture ethical question of recasting, but what you've done here in making good an original model, I feel that's totally justifiable. In any business ecosystem the individual only has so much power, and while the ethically perfect stance may be to avoid recasting entirely and hold out for nothing but genuine parts, as you pointed out that could prove simply impossible, or at least out of the financial reach of us mere mortals who don't have our painting studio set up on our third yacht - it's an imperfect world, and the burden for behaving 'perfectly' can't always fall 100% on the end consumer. Also that's a frickin' sweet paint job, Fulgrim himself would definitely give a thumbs up and not ask where the parts came from.
your car comparison was pretty spot on. recasts can be a great way to find hard to find, or impossible to find, pieces. on top of that the left over recasts can make for a solid add to a kitbash bin.
Supporting the company that makes the game / hobby we love totally makes sense to me. That being said, OOP models are in a different category to me. The company is no longer making them, and If i find a partial in an old bits box, I am just fine with getting a recast part to fix / complete it, and get it back on the table. If you are looking for a complete replacement because you didn't play back when the model was originally put out. Well the company is no longer producing, and no longer monetizing that work, so a recast is some times the only option. Just enjoy the game, and support when you can is how i look at it. Example, I also play Magic. I have been playing for a long time, and own many really old cards. I am aware that they are really expensive, and most of my friends do want to spend 20k on a commander deck, so they use proxies. It doesn't bother me at all. Wizards already made all the money they were going to on Arabian nights, so get a proxy, and it doesn't hurt the company. Just my perspective.
Great video Casey.. if its out of production you have to make a new one somehow. If still available then buy the part. At the end of the day if its just for you then so what, if you choose to sell it then be honest to the next person. Easy peasy...
Considering the absolutely horrendous QA that goes on for forgeworld models, getting a recast probably doesn't significantly affect the quality of the stuff you get as recasts 😁
So my country has been cut off from official GW products, those that get in or are still left are 2-3 times the original price. Recasters in my country can do 1 to 1 ForgeWorld/GW models at the same or even better quality (FORGEWORLD) at 1/5 the god damm price. If the company decided to abandon my region, I will support the local people because that's the only logical thing to do.
There is this one company that I suspect is in your country. I ordered some discontinued parts from them (some cadian veterans with ahotguns and some other stuff like that) and I was shocked at the quality of the resin casting- MUCH better than anyrhing I have bought in resin from GW. No mold lines or slip. Very clean out out of the package.
Recasts have their place in the hobby. Particularly when it comes to no longer produced miniatures. It allows more people to obtain those models that would be lost to time otherwise.
It’s my experience that if I am not sure a model is recast, that if swords, guns, spears, or wings are straight, then it’s probably recast. Forge world crap is bent or broken upon arrival.
Agreed. The Russian stuff that I have seen is waaaaay higher quality than FW. It wasn't super cheap either. Not FW prices, but not swapmeet prices. Like anything else, you get what you pay for.
@@bopaintsminis a third to half price of Forge World is a good deal if you can get good quality. I have purchased so much from FW that has come bent, broken and without instructions. They should be ashamed of themselves.
I buy one set of original models and then use them as masters to recast every unit in my army. To be fair, I'm doing a 100% kitbashed army (Oddly enough it's Emperor's Children). There's no way I'm paying money for all of those random bits in random kits. Especially since most of the kits I'm using are out of production. Seriously I'm not paying $150-$200 just so I can get 10 more Juan Diaz Demonettes heads, hands, and feet to stick into Sisters of Battle power armor. It would be almost a thousand dollars of just the Deamonette models just to fill out my troops alone. That and I would be destroying some seriously rare and out of production models in the process - and each mistake I make is $15-$20 I'd have blown. I'm not doing that. Also screw GW.
I feel ya man I haven't got into the re casting yet want to though but I was doing a terminator unit for buddy on printer n showed him price difference but it'd be cool if they offered discontinued parts as stls to buy
@@chriswills418 Honestly I'd rather use a printer. Recasting is fiddly under the best circumstances as I don't have a pressure pot to force the air out of the resin.
@@chriswills418 I would have gone that route for basically the same reason, but I don't have a space I could use for it. Rather I do, I have three places that would be perfect for it but I would be able to convince the other people in my house to not sleep in those rooms with the printer - but rather sleep in their own bedrooms. I live with weird people.
You did what you had to do to ensure this great model is now shining (love those speakers on top!!). To leave it in a drawer, that was somewhat criminal ;)
Fabulous ( jazz hands lol) great work great video, thanks for sharing and thanks for the info on recasts seeing as I'm a newbie, only been doing miniatures for a year now started on planes two years ago ( was a gift to help deal with depression).
This dude saying recasts are almost always worse is blowing my mind. Every recast I've ever bought has been above and beyond forgeworld quality stuff. Homie thinks he got a recast but actually got a genuine FW model.
Im so glad I got this mink on release and my friend built and painted it. Models going OOP does far more harm then recasting as the price gauging is insane. A FW expensive kit of $100 goes to $250+
As much as I love the post-heresy EC's scheme, the decision to go for a more classic/pre-Heresy purple and gold scheme really pops! Also need to get me some of that Tamiya panel liner!
There are plenty of companies offering alternative parts for other hobbies, that are based on old models that without the third party parts would become scrap. Recasting like that would be inline with this, though perhaps recasting entire models isn't ideal. Recasting new models is definitely out of line, especially, as you said, for small mini creators. Great video btw, the dreadnought looked great
Recasting is a tricky subject. In your own example with the car parts.. that's seen as ok. In the music industry "borrowed" beats.. Are ok. Same for gaming, electronics, and so on. And those are often done without credit to the original creators that had the skill, time and effort applied. So when something isn't available, the flood gates are opened. They earned their profits and they themselves decided to remove something from market. Someone selling a recast isn't taking food away from the mouths of any GW employee.. if it were a model in current production, sure, it's actively hurting those folks. Can't really use the "maybe their masters were worn" as an argument either as these recast are better quality than anything resin based GW dreams of making and they could have their own official recast. So credit to the recaster for putting in the effort to make a good quality resin model and for trying to keep models available for the community. Something GW doesn't do. That is, as long as he doesn't claim to be their own creation or the official model.. a "cover" if you will.
Good examples! And in the case of making something that credits the original I think that makes sense. I think the real issue is that these companies out of Russia and China are also making recasts of new stuff as well, purposely trying to undercut GW and other companies. When it comes to 3D printing I feel like people are actually trying to make parts for things they can't get, and keep models like this one alive, so it's generally more accepted.
@@eBayMiniatureRescues the undercut, that's an issue GW brought upon themselves. They have their costs, their expenses in creating the models. 100%, but their pricing structure is way above and beyond what it should actually cost. It's gonna be a poor example due scale, but look at any other toy manufacturer. They go for numbers, "sell cheap, sell often" rather than the limit and scalp mentality.. "limited model numbers.." yeah.. right. GW is setting the value of their models based on the brand rather than their actual production costs including the creation process. Their margins are much higher than an iphone as an example which is known to have high margins and wayyyyyyyy higher production costs and development time after sales are made due to bug fixing/updates, which GW doesn't have. I'm not saying stealing IP is ok, but this is a problem they themselves created by over valuing their own product and IP.
@@eBayMiniatureRescues nobody wants to buy in China or Russia. If GW would charge humane prices and Chinese & Russia resellers could only offer a 25% discount - they would go out of business. Convenience over every thing else for the todays consumer.
Generally I won't use recasts unless I can't get the model I want any other way, also don't feel as bad using them for dark mechanicus conversions and hacking them up as they aren't FW
Depends on the intent and purpose. I'm of a mind it's fine for terrain/scatter additions and as you demonstrated to reinvigorate an oop model that proves difficult to replace online even within the community. For scrub teams/practice I don't see a big issue unless you're taking it to a tournament or presenting it as genuine. Prices being what they are, own it if you have to. :)
The remains of the re-cast model could make a great basis for some scatter terrain. Sonic the Dreadnought looks rad to the max; as befits the noise marines. I'd probably replace the sides of the sarcophagus with speaker cabinets; for extra noise. Although, maybe, that should be saved for the 11th Legion, the Spın̈al Tap Legion; the legion that goes all the way up to 11. They got kicked out of the Imperium for making too much noise in band practice; and for depleting the Imperium's supply of drummers.
dont bullshit dude, recasting is not about hurting the smaller companies (literally no one recasts smaller companies and recasters dont care about having molds of smaller companies), most people used it to buy stupidly overpriced models, like anything sold by forgeworld, or most of the stuff sold by GW after the multiple price hikes.
The shitty ebay recaster you bought from does not reflect the quality of most recasters, models I got from recasters are always much better than stuff I have seen from GW
While admittedly not the case in this specific scenario it really grinds my gears being lectured by channels who get sent free stuff about how recasting is bad
honestly, If it's totally out of production, it's a okay. Still not good, but not really bad either. It's less okay if it's seasonal or an event exclusive. Also, bits are cool. Doesn't matter if it's recast bits.
Your comparison with building classic cars is a real good way to look at recasting. I'm not particularly against it in so far as you don't do your WHOLE army with them or 3D prints. However I can get on board especially if you are after an Out of Print model that is near impossible to find like this guy. The other reason I can get with is if you are going for a more custom look then maybe you can get a recast and then chop the hell out of it and you are not killing something that is no longer widely available. Let us be honest, no one should cut up an original 67 Shelby Mustang and turn it into a dune buggy or something crazy like that!
The aftermarket car parts analogy reminds me of the guy that built a 1955 Chevy out of only new production aftermarket parts back in 2018 and I think recasting has its place for that same thing covering out of production ranges that games Workshop doesn’t sell anymore though I wouldn’t condone using them to fill an entire army I don’t think there would be anything wrong with picking up some recasted Elysians to put grav chutes onto your tempestus scions or other storm trooper kitbashes
I'm very fine with recasting models that are OOP. It gives newer hobbiests a way to engage with things that would otherwise be unobtainable. It's a great way to keep older things alive and in the hands of collectors who otherwise missed it, or had no way of getting them. I do think people who don't mention that is a recast while selling it to be scummy, however. for gameplay stuff, I don't see recasts as that different from 3d printed parts. For smaller indie companies I am usually agaisnt recasts personally, but I wouldn't say its without its uses, and I would treat it as a case by case purpose. Recasts are also good to just get a vibe for something without ruining something potentially hard to get. If I just needed, say, the canon from this, buying a real one to chop up is both ineffective money wise, and takes a rare model off the market, but with recasts (or 3d prints, I suppose) I could get the part cheaper + without ruining a cool relic.
I’ve never even heard of that model, and well done! As for recasts, I wouldn’t buy anything that is still currently available to buy from GW, unless it’s being used for something non-army related; I’ve seen ruined Imperial Knight terrain pieces made from recasts, and I think that’s a little different. As for completely OOP kits, at least you aren’t actively undercutting GW, because they’ve chosen to abandon that design. I’ve never purchased anything in either category, but it’s a tricky topic, I agree.
Try soaking parts in iso alcohol and see if the glue/green stuff comes loose. Or you could try putting the parts in the freezer. I've managed to remove paint and glues by soaking things in alcohol. Had some real stubborn paint on some models and ended up using acetone :O it worked but i diluted some in water and left a few parts to soak, which ended up slightly bleached lol
For some of us who are starting out restoring old models, being not from the U.S so not having a lot of wide range of cleaners what would say would be a great start for cleaning resin models from FW or just in general plastic ?
Either a concentrated degreaser or Isopropyl alcohol. Isopropyl is used to clean 3D prints as well, so very safe for resin! If you have a new model fresh from FW then kitchen soap and water is a good way to get the mold release off of the resin as well. Hope that helps!
Also, I'm in the same house you are in regards to recasts - they have a niche, especially for replacing or repairing original out-of-print parts when you can get the "OEM," but otherwise they take away from the hobby when they are of current in-production items.
I'd really love a honest take on this question. What's the big deal about getting a recast when (and usually only) when the model is no longer in production ? If there are none in production for sale. You aren't taking money out of anyone's pockets per say ??
At a certain point, it’s not hurting anyone really, but here’s where it starts to hurt the system. If I have models that are old and I want to sell them, if everyone is playing recast models then my real ones are worth less money, so that sucks for the second hand market. If I bought a limited edition model back in the day, and it’s like 1/500 made, and there are tons of copies, then my limited model isn’t so limited anymore. It always has some effect on someone. The real kicker for me is that the outfits doing recasts are not just trying to help the hobby and get older oop models into our hands, they are purposely trying to steal from someone else, they are only doing it for the money, and that’s super shady.
Hi Casey, if you have the vast majority of the miniature and you can't get the rest because that miniature is no longer available and maybe this miniature is one that you have always wanted then although going done the recast route is not ideal but you have no choice then just for once I do not think it is to much of a problem.
On one hand I 100% agree, cause it's already a model I own and I'm trying to fix it, so I should be allowed to do that however I need to. But giving money to people who are actively trying to steal from more companies than just GW is tough. It's not like they are super-open websites with reputable systems or something, these people are actively hiding and changing servers to avoid legal action. Idono, it's a weird place to be in, I just want my mini look right lol.
I need to do this with the Venerable Black Templars Dread I have. My Cat decided to eat the banner pole one night after I went to bed working on it. I do buy recast stuff for OOP items, mainly rhino and LR doors and MKII stuff. If it's still being made I do go official even though the temptation to save money on the recast is there.
I'm not sure if it's a thing or not, but if the liquid gets warm in the cleaner, why not just put it in the fridge for a while beforehand? I've used this pre-cooling for reusable molds to stop UV resin from warping them with heat, so might work here too.
My opinion on this is the same, OOP models is fine to be recast, but I also say that recast absurdly expensive stuff is too, because it isn't coming from any kind of lgs, and yes I am talking about a warlord
Yeah Recasting in generell is a bit of an issue for me too. If the model is seriously out of production, and there is no successor for that model in the lineup... then, recasting is a viable option for me, but I would prefer an original if possible. Normally I would prefer 3d Printing over recasting, for the reasons you yourself mentioned (bad quallity, redicullous prizes even for a mockup) and on a 3d modell I can fiddle around myself untill it suits my needs... But to be honest: I would much prefer, if I had the opportunity the just call GW or FW or whatever company (this isn't a thing happening only on Warhammer) and get one made for a reasonable prize... I know of companies which run limited numbers of old production spezimens every once in a while, best example are car-companies, BMW and Mercedes will happily provide you with replacement-parts for your car up to 50 years after it's production (that's garantied... well if your car will make it that long, in the first place... *coff coff*)
"Even in Death, I got Served..." Honestly, I considered buying recasts before...working it in my head that if I get one original from Forgeworld (I was contemplating 1e Horus Heresy at the time), I could then proceed to do recasts with no issue. That said, only ever got the Forgeworld Stuff. Now that I'm trying to shoot for smaller scale, not even recasting would do much for me I imagine, plus models at 15mm scale and less are just so cheap that I almost laugh at 28mm recast prices...
If you find the right caster the quality is generally better than gw and takes less cleanup work. And when characters like abbadon are only 6 bucks vs 40 I can feel satisfied doing conversions more while not spending 1000+ on one army
I have a couple of recasts, usually limited edition models from 20+ years ago that aren't available anywhere. If I can get the original I will, but if I can't then it justifies a recast for me.
I’d say if they still sell it then recast bad but if they don’t sell it anymore than it’s preserving history and letting people get there hands on something that wasn’t being sold anymore
I do not hate the recasting of OOP models. There are so many cool old models, like the Goof Rockers oder the old Space Wolves chaplin, that you can not really get your hands on anymore because no one is selling or selling to prices that are just like you could also buy GW and have them thne recaste the model for you. I only have problems with recasting if it is of models you still can buy for normal price in stores or direkt on the website, because that is just not right.
I'm totally with you with regard to recasting. However, what are your thoughts on recasting old models? Like an old Malus Darkblade for example. There are only a finite amount of models floating around, inflating prices. I don't have an opinion about it either way, just curious. :)
I guess it depends, sort of? Like if there is a mass produced model that I wanted parts for, then I'm cool with printing a piece for it, so recasting would be in the same boat. BUT, if it's a limited model that is collectable now, even though it's limited, I don't like the idea of flooding the market with copies that lower the price of a sought after item. Like if it was Magic the Gathering and we were all playing super rare super expensive cards that are worth a ton of money now, that would kind of kill the collecting game and the second hand market. Collecting has always been part of games like Warhammer and Magic, and it would hurt collectors who did pay for those limited or hard to get items. As much as I would want a model like that, I would never feel right getting a knock off.
@@eBayMiniatureRescues I can see that. Especially for the reserved list of cards in MTG. However, GW has some models that were regular/common, which are now super hard to get (e.g. Malus (reading the second omnibus now)) . The comparison in MTG is fair, only in MTG they actively increase supply of cards that are used extensively. Having said that, I guess the comment can be made that some old models have no use in the game anymore, therefore, why should there be a supply? For example Sol Ring has been reprinted a lot due to the Commander environment it is living in right now. That reprint made total sense. By that same token, Malus has no place in the game at the moment really... (I just want a malus dammit haha)
If the model isn't available there's no issue in my mind. also keeps prices down for old models because I don't believe hording models should be encouraged to profit from them.
That's really never been a problem, because it's not something your mass producing. If you sculpt something for a model you own, or from scratch, then it's generally seen as a great skill in the hobby. Recasting relies on other people to do the hard work and copies parts in order to make money.
Recasting technically still voliates the IP right of the original owner but considering that the model in question had been out of production for years they can hardly claim a loss of profit on their part.
My opinion on recasts is similar to that of pirating: If whatever you're after is available for purchase from the official source, please, support the creator with an official purchase. However, if the item is no longer being produced/supported, the item is being made artificially rare by sporadic/limited releases, scalpers are buying up all available inventory and reselling it for ludicrous amounts of money, or the creator is absolute trash and you refuse to support them for their actions (poor treatment and/or harassment of employees/customers, a constant history of lying to customers and/or bad releases, accepting an exclusivity deal long after advertising the item for sale on a different site/platform, etc.), I have no issue with purchasing a bootleg/recast. Yeah, you get what you pay for and have to put in extra work to make it look good (I still have a lot to do with my recast of Kingdom Death's Fade), but if you really want the item and refuse to/can't get it officially due to one of the reasons listed above, don't be afraid to turn to outside sources.
GW needs to evolve with the technology. What if GW just released the 3d files for out of print models? Would that drastically affect them?, because ATM they barely have any good will with the customer base :P
Honestly? I don't think it would; but it would be an admission of defeat for Forge World. On the one hand; it's saving in resin costs and manpower, and would let their sculpting teams create STLs for niche kits or designs like the different Guard units. At the same time; they do lose sales this way. STL packs are cheap. Mini sets are not. STLs can be reused, and people can take on a "print and sell" mentality; so it would mean ultimately less money to FW as a branch.
Recasting is definitely a grey area. Recasts of models currently in the catalogue are less legal and do harm incomes of the legitimate manufacturer. And it is definitely an issue for smaller companies, as you say. I have less of a problem when it comes to out of production models that GW are highly unlikely to reinstate in any capacity; I have to resort to markets that don't give them money regardless, and second hand markets are as bad as GW themselves for pricing in many cases. I've been burned by recasts a couple of times, so I've seen a spread of recast quality.
As a few others have said, recasts of OOP models seems okay. New sill in production ones not so much. What you did with this particular model seems fair use of a recast.
I think recasting is fine if the model isint made anymore its like people emulating old Nintendo games they don't make them anymore they arnt makeing money off it anymore because it's all resellers and it's fine because it keeps someone's work alive and a hobby thriving
Recasting OOP models is 100% fine in my opinion. If GW/FW, or any other company for that matter, doesn't want to produce it anymore for whatever reason, there should be ways for people to still get it if they want it without paying insane "oop/collector" prices.
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Recasting and selling big corpo GW models is fine tbh. It's not a non-profit and GW makes a ridiculous mark up on its figures. Not to mention they've been very bad and limiting to their own fan community, and attempting to disney their competitors. You're not causing trouble for anyone at the ground level, unlike something like thievery or shoplifting.
As for buying/making recasts for personal use, without a doubt that's 100% fine.
yea I wanna do elysians still but I'm not about to pay 100 a unit and then feel like I can customize any
@@clinch4402 Those are a lot of excuses that would do the bloke in Nottingham working at GW's resin casting plant no good if they lost their job from a downturn due to recasting. OOP is fine but don't try and excuse in production recasting just because GW is a big company. Big companies have real people working there. Think on that.
@@Thornbeard I just think about the shareholders and execs getting their fat cut and not giving a shit about the guy in the resin casting department
I'd take roughly the same position on recasting as pirating video games: You don't do it right up until you can't get it legit. If a company isn't going to give you an option to pay them for the thing then that's too bad for them.
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Super glad to see you finally managed to fix the model i sent in great job man :D
Been a long time coming man!! Thanks again :)
When my recast warhound arrived and it was a much nicer cast than my friends original FW one I had made my case
would it be crazy for GW to digitize their old models and offer them as 3dprint files on their site? they're already doing limited run reprints of old minis, and I get there's some bespokeness that may be lost, but it would remove a lot of overhead for them, and probably curb a huge chunk of the "losses" they incur from people recasting (even if it's out of print stuff) 🤷
edit for clarity: I'm not saying "put the 3d files up for free" of course, they would still make money off of their designs, just not have to deal with the manufacturing overhead... maybe that's where some of the confusion in the thread below comes from.
what you are describing is a cardinal sin for every profit oriented businessman. Never ever teach a man how to fish, so he has to come back to you, buying YOUR fish everyday. The execs at GW are gonna blow their brains out before they publish 3d printing files. Imaging rabies, foaming at the mouth dogs.
@@MrBiochronic I guess, but it's not like the tech is stuck in the days those business wisdoms came about... the scanning/modelling is readily available, the production has arrived at the consumer level... and it's already happening anyway. Just think it would be a smart move, although i'm unsure if it's short term or long term smart... one or the other at least.
GW won't sell STLs because they gotta get that money. They think they won't get you to buy a hundred spess mahreens if you have an STL and can print one a hundred times.
I doubt that they woud even publicly acknowledge that 3D printing is a thing.
@@bopaintsminis i just mean out of print stuff tho, of course they're not gonna sell current stuff as stls
@@MisterTingles But why sell DC'd units as STLs when they can use FOMO and sell them as "Made to order- limited time only!"?
And you can use the recast model central torso as terrain, like a destroyed Dreadnaught half buried in the ground.
The best use of recast spare parts after restoration!
If it's out of print, I see no problem with recasting. As i see it, it just increases the variety we can have in our armies and painting, and lets people appreciate the details of older models without having the barrier of price that plagues alot of older models. I do think though, that reprints of models currently in print and being sold is wrong, though I think it's worth considering how reprints could increase the accessibility of miniature painting and allow new people to find and join the hobby. Generally though, I think it's best to just stick with buying reprints only when there's no viable alternative provided by the source of the original model.
Yeah, like in this case it’s being used to repair an original, and I feel fine about it. Where it starts to break down for me is when you’re talking about limited edition models. Like if everyone playing magic just had a black lotus and people didn’t have a problem with playing with a reprint, the original wouldn’t be worth so much money.
@@eBayMiniatureRescues I think it worked great.
@@eBayMiniatureRescues as a collector of older products, I will still pay top dollar for an original OOP product and if anything in the last few years, the value of said models has gone up in value. There's still a place for the older lead/white metal creations on the shelves of collectors like me who are daft enough to pay the price for originality lol
Completely agree here, recast for OOP models only for repair purposes, if you sell it on later remember to mention it to the buyer. If it's being kept then it shouldn't matter as long as most of the model is original. I feel the same about parts generally as well and do cast myself for kit bashes if a kit comes with one of something and I want 3 and don't want to buy 2 more boxes for the part and then have the remaining contents doing nothing. I also trade parts as well for the cases of buying a box for most of the contents but not all of it.
PROOT!!!!!
There needs to be a recast bitseller just for this reason. There are so many parts that are just one in the box and if you lose it or get it destroyed you can't build your model.
Been turning my nids into spiders I never have enough scything claws
I love how you have turned this channel from just painting to a whole platform about the hobby, with miniature, products and room for opinions and discussion. You have done an amazing job with this and it just keeps getting better. Thank you for the great content you are putting out!
love the paint job you did. recast wise, most of my opinions have be said by others in the chat. OOP is fine, restoration is fine, or if you just need a crapton of a specific part. where recasting is a benefit to me is for "risky" projects. like if you want a destroyed terrain piece using a FW model, Or get a recast for a project and use it as the practice run for a conversion/edit on a fw piece.
Honestly, with the prices you are asked up pay for official models, we get to expect immaculate high quality castings. Just remember that just a few models will set you back more than a new smartphone or laptop.
So if the quality we get is mediocre or the support is ceased for older models, recasts are a good way to keep the market honest by demanding more quality control in a monopoly market.
Take what's left of the recast, paint it up then bury it in like a bog for a really cool objective marker.
way to go man! I love that you went outside the box and found a way to bring this model back to life. I agree with you that recasts are something that I don't feel is ok in most cases but I really like how you found this method! well done!
This is a very honorable approach which I think is awesome for one's own damaged models one has a strong emotional attachment to.
But in truth if I want to have an OOP model, I do not buy damaged ones on ebay but perfectly fine ones straight from the recasters.
I'm glad to see a video talking about recasts in this context.
I think that GW could license out their oop figures to another company. That way, their older stuff would still be available, and they would be getting money for practically nothing.
I would love that so much.
Given Games Workshop's pricing policies and the quality of plastic they use .... is there gold hidden inside them or something?
I totally don't mind recasts that have an reasonable price tag to them.
I don't know where I'd draw the line on the big-picture ethical question of recasting, but what you've done here in making good an original model, I feel that's totally justifiable. In any business ecosystem the individual only has so much power, and while the ethically perfect stance may be to avoid recasting entirely and hold out for nothing but genuine parts, as you pointed out that could prove simply impossible, or at least out of the financial reach of us mere mortals who don't have our painting studio set up on our third yacht - it's an imperfect world, and the burden for behaving 'perfectly' can't always fall 100% on the end consumer. Also that's a frickin' sweet paint job, Fulgrim himself would definitely give a thumbs up and not ask where the parts came from.
your car comparison was pretty spot on. recasts can be a great way to find hard to find, or impossible to find, pieces. on top of that the left over recasts can make for a solid add to a kitbash bin.
For me it is whatever gets my model or project looking the best it can. Nice video. The model turned out fantastic. Keep up the good work.
That was a hell of a rough model to start with but you did a really good job bringing it back man.
Supporting the company that makes the game / hobby we love totally makes sense to me. That being said, OOP models are in a different category to me. The company is no longer making them, and If i find a partial in an old bits box, I am just fine with getting a recast part to fix / complete it, and get it back on the table. If you are looking for a complete replacement because you didn't play back when the model was originally put out. Well the company is no longer producing, and no longer monetizing that work, so a recast is some times the only option. Just enjoy the game, and support when you can is how i look at it.
Example, I also play Magic. I have been playing for a long time, and own many really old cards. I am aware that they are really expensive, and most of my friends do want to spend 20k on a commander deck, so they use proxies. It doesn't bother me at all. Wizards already made all the money they were going to on Arabian nights, so get a proxy, and it doesn't hurt the company.
Just my perspective.
That Looks fantastic!
Great video Casey.. if its out of production you have to make a new one somehow. If still available then buy the part. At the end of the day if its just for you then so what, if you choose to sell it then be honest to the next person. Easy peasy...
This was a rescue this was a miracle resuscitation
Considering the absolutely horrendous QA that goes on for forgeworld models, getting a recast probably doesn't significantly affect the quality of the stuff you get as recasts 😁
So my country has been cut off from official GW products, those that get in or are still left are 2-3 times the original price. Recasters in my country can do 1 to 1 ForgeWorld/GW models at the same or even better quality (FORGEWORLD) at 1/5 the god damm price. If the company decided to abandon my region, I will support the local people because that's the only logical thing to do.
Do they have a website ? Id love to peruse there wares. Discreetly ofcourse. Dont need no snitches.
Russia?
Same, got a link friend?
There is this one company that I suspect is in your country. I ordered some discontinued parts from them (some cadian veterans with ahotguns and some other stuff like that) and I was shocked at the quality of the resin casting- MUCH better than anyrhing I have bought in resin from GW. No mold lines or slip. Very clean out out of the package.
@@blackjak4185 yes, our recasters destroy forgewolrd in all aspects.
Good opinion piece and great rescue 👍
Recasts have their place in the hobby. Particularly when it comes to no longer produced miniatures. It allows more people to obtain those models that would be lost to time otherwise.
Great to see someone else making good use of Tamiya Panel Liner, solid work on this kit rebuild dude!
It’s my experience that if I am not sure a model is recast, that if swords, guns, spears, or wings are straight, then it’s probably recast. Forge world crap is bent or broken upon arrival.
So recast actually got better quality control, no wonder people buy them.
way less bubbles and pinholes on recasts in my experience too....allegedly
@@KrisLI1408 not sure Forge World has any quality control.
Agreed. The Russian stuff that I have seen is waaaaay higher quality than FW.
It wasn't super cheap either. Not FW prices, but not swapmeet prices. Like anything else, you get what you pay for.
@@bopaintsminis a third to half price of Forge World is a good deal if you can get good quality. I have purchased so much from FW that has come bent, broken and without instructions. They should be ashamed of themselves.
I buy one set of original models and then use them as masters to recast every unit in my army. To be fair, I'm doing a 100% kitbashed army (Oddly enough it's Emperor's Children). There's no way I'm paying money for all of those random bits in random kits. Especially since most of the kits I'm using are out of production. Seriously I'm not paying $150-$200 just so I can get 10 more Juan Diaz Demonettes heads, hands, and feet to stick into Sisters of Battle power armor. It would be almost a thousand dollars of just the Deamonette models just to fill out my troops alone. That and I would be destroying some seriously rare and out of production models in the process - and each mistake I make is $15-$20 I'd have blown.
I'm not doing that. Also screw GW.
I feel ya man I haven't got into the re casting yet want to though but I was doing a terminator unit for buddy on printer n showed him price difference but it'd be cool if they offered discontinued parts as stls to buy
@@chriswills418 Honestly I'd rather use a printer. Recasting is fiddly under the best circumstances as I don't have a pressure pot to force the air out of the resin.
@@Telmach okay and that's partly why I haven't gotten into it lol it was either printer or pressure pot
@@chriswills418 I would have gone that route for basically the same reason, but I don't have a space I could use for it.
Rather I do, I have three places that would be perfect for it but I would be able to convince the other people in my house to not sleep in those rooms with the printer - but rather sleep in their own bedrooms. I live with weird people.
@@Telmach I built my own for like $15.00 and 3 different used junk stores.
Fantastic work I have no problems with recasting oop models especially for parts like this
You did what you had to do to ensure this great model is now shining (love those speakers on top!!). To leave it in a drawer, that was somewhat criminal ;)
Fabulous ( jazz hands lol) great work great video, thanks for sharing and thanks for the info on recasts seeing as I'm a newbie, only been doing miniatures for a year now started on planes two years ago ( was a gift to help deal with depression).
This dude saying recasts are almost always worse is blowing my mind. Every recast I've ever bought has been above and beyond forgeworld quality stuff. Homie thinks he got a recast but actually got a genuine FW model.
I don't tend to buy them, and the ones I've seen in person have been like this one. Wouldn't it be ironic though if this was genuine though lol.
Im so glad I got this mink on release and my friend built and painted it. Models going OOP does far more harm then recasting as the price gauging is insane. A FW expensive kit of $100 goes to $250+
As much as I love the post-heresy EC's scheme, the decision to go for a more classic/pre-Heresy purple and gold scheme really pops! Also need to get me some of that Tamiya panel liner!
There are plenty of companies offering alternative parts for other hobbies, that are based on old models that without the third party parts would become scrap. Recasting like that would be inline with this, though perhaps recasting entire models isn't ideal. Recasting new models is definitely out of line, especially, as you said, for small mini creators.
Great video btw, the dreadnought looked great
I've been waiting for this video!!
Recasting is a tricky subject.
In your own example with the car parts.. that's seen as ok.
In the music industry "borrowed" beats.. Are ok.
Same for gaming, electronics, and so on. And those are often done without credit to the original creators that had the skill, time and effort applied.
So when something isn't available, the flood gates are opened. They earned their profits and they themselves decided to remove something from market. Someone selling a recast isn't taking food away from the mouths of any GW employee.. if it were a model in current production, sure, it's actively hurting those folks.
Can't really use the "maybe their masters were worn" as an argument either as these recast are better quality than anything resin based GW dreams of making and they could have their own official recast.
So credit to the recaster for putting in the effort to make a good quality resin model and for trying to keep models available for the community. Something GW doesn't do.
That is, as long as he doesn't claim to be their own creation or the official model.. a "cover" if you will.
Good examples! And in the case of making something that credits the original I think that makes sense. I think the real issue is that these companies out of Russia and China are also making recasts of new stuff as well, purposely trying to undercut GW and other companies. When it comes to 3D printing I feel like people are actually trying to make parts for things they can't get, and keep models like this one alive, so it's generally more accepted.
@@eBayMiniatureRescues the undercut, that's an issue GW brought upon themselves. They have their costs, their expenses in creating the models. 100%, but their pricing structure is way above and beyond what it should actually cost.
It's gonna be a poor example due scale, but look at any other toy manufacturer. They go for numbers, "sell cheap, sell often" rather than the limit and scalp mentality.. "limited model numbers.." yeah.. right.
GW is setting the value of their models based on the brand rather than their actual production costs including the creation process. Their margins are much higher than an iphone as an example which is known to have high margins and wayyyyyyyy higher production costs and development time after sales are made due to bug fixing/updates, which GW doesn't have.
I'm not saying stealing IP is ok, but this is a problem they themselves created by over valuing their own product and IP.
@@eBayMiniatureRescues nobody wants to buy in China or Russia. If GW would charge humane prices and Chinese & Russia resellers could only offer a 25% discount - they would go out of business. Convenience over every thing else for the todays consumer.
@@CreamAle I do agree that they put themselves in this position, those prices aren't going down anytime soon.
Generally I won't use recasts unless I can't get the model I want any other way, also don't feel as bad using them for dark mechanicus conversions and hacking them up as they aren't FW
Depends on the intent and purpose. I'm of a mind it's fine for terrain/scatter additions and as you demonstrated to reinvigorate an oop model that proves difficult to replace online even within the community. For scrub teams/practice I don't see a big issue unless you're taking it to a tournament or presenting it as genuine. Prices being what they are, own it if you have to. :)
Copyright should last 10 years and then works should become public domain
That would make it a lot easier for sure, and give legit outfits a way to be competitive with older models.
The remains of the re-cast model could make a great basis for some scatter terrain. Sonic the Dreadnought looks rad to the max; as befits the noise marines.
I'd probably replace the sides of the sarcophagus with speaker cabinets; for extra noise. Although, maybe, that should be saved for the 11th Legion, the Spın̈al Tap Legion; the legion that goes all the way up to 11. They got kicked out of the Imperium for making too much noise in band practice; and for depleting the Imperium's supply of drummers.
Nice restoration. I find wooden toothpicks to be a very handy tool to clean old paint and glue scraps from old models.
Sonic the Dreadnought.... that one had passed me by🤔
Bit disappointed you didn't give it an electric blue Mohawk. 😁🤣
dont bullshit dude, recasting is not about hurting the smaller companies (literally no one recasts smaller companies and recasters dont care about having molds of smaller companies), most people used it to buy stupidly overpriced models, like anything sold by forgeworld, or most of the stuff sold by GW after the multiple price hikes.
The shitty ebay recaster you bought from does not reflect the quality of most recasters, models I got from recasters are always much better than stuff I have seen from GW
While admittedly not the case in this specific scenario it really grinds my gears being lectured by channels who get sent free stuff about how recasting is bad
crazy idea use the recast bits to make a cool objective point / terrain piece ?
Definitely an option with the rest of it! It would make a great bit of terrain for sure.
honestly, If it's totally out of production, it's a okay. Still not good, but not really bad either. It's less okay if it's seasonal or an event exclusive.
Also, bits are cool. Doesn't matter if it's recast bits.
This is probably the most proper use of a recast....
Your comparison with building classic cars is a real good way to look at recasting. I'm not particularly against it in so far as you don't do your WHOLE army with them or 3D prints. However I can get on board especially if you are after an Out of Print model that is near impossible to find like this guy. The other reason I can get with is if you are going for a more custom look then maybe you can get a recast and then chop the hell out of it and you are not killing something that is no longer widely available. Let us be honest, no one should cut up an original 67 Shelby Mustang and turn it into a dune buggy or something crazy like that!
The aftermarket car parts analogy reminds me of the guy that built a 1955 Chevy out of only new production aftermarket parts back in 2018 and I think recasting has its place for that same thing covering out of production ranges that games Workshop doesn’t sell anymore though I wouldn’t condone using them to fill an entire army I don’t think there would be anything wrong with picking up some recasted Elysians to put grav chutes onto your tempestus scions or other storm trooper kitbashes
I have no problem with recasts for OOP minis and to get hold of bits for repairs.
Nice job !
I'm very fine with recasting models that are OOP. It gives newer hobbiests a way to engage with things that would otherwise be unobtainable. It's a great way to keep older things alive and in the hands of collectors who otherwise missed it, or had no way of getting them. I do think people who don't mention that is a recast while selling it to be scummy, however. for gameplay stuff, I don't see recasts as that different from 3d printed parts. For smaller indie companies I am usually agaisnt recasts personally, but I wouldn't say its without its uses, and I would treat it as a case by case purpose. Recasts are also good to just get a vibe for something without ruining something potentially hard to get. If I just needed, say, the canon from this, buying a real one to chop up is both ineffective money wise, and takes a rare model off the market, but with recasts (or 3d prints, I suppose) I could get the part cheaper + without ruining a cool relic.
I’ve never even heard of that model, and well done! As for recasts, I wouldn’t buy anything that is still currently available to buy from GW, unless it’s being used for something non-army related; I’ve seen ruined Imperial Knight terrain pieces made from recasts, and I think that’s a little different. As for completely OOP kits, at least you aren’t actively undercutting GW, because they’ve chosen to abandon that design. I’ve never purchased anything in either category, but it’s a tricky topic, I agree.
Try soaking parts in iso alcohol and see if the glue/green stuff comes loose. Or you could try putting the parts in the freezer. I've managed to remove paint and glues by soaking things in alcohol. Had some real stubborn paint on some models and ended up using acetone :O it worked but i diluted some in water and left a few parts to soak, which ended up slightly bleached lol
Such a great video
Awesome!
For some of us who are starting out restoring old models, being not from the U.S so not having a lot of wide range of cleaners what would say would be a great start for cleaning resin models from FW or just in general plastic ?
Either a concentrated degreaser or Isopropyl alcohol. Isopropyl is used to clean 3D prints as well, so very safe for resin! If you have a new model fresh from FW then kitchen soap and water is a good way to get the mold release off of the resin as well. Hope that helps!
Heh... sonic cleaner to ultrasonically clean a Sonic Dread... Fulgrim approves!
Also, I'm in the same house you are in regards to recasts - they have a niche, especially for replacing or repairing original out-of-print parts when you can get the "OEM," but otherwise they take away from the hobby when they are of current in-production items.
I'd really love a honest take on this question. What's the big deal about getting a recast when (and usually only) when the model is no longer in production ? If there are none in production for sale. You aren't taking money out of anyone's pockets per say ??
At a certain point, it’s not hurting anyone really, but here’s where it starts to hurt the system. If I have models that are old and I want to sell them, if everyone is playing recast models then my real ones are worth less money, so that sucks for the second hand market. If I bought a limited edition model back in the day, and it’s like 1/500 made, and there are tons of copies, then my limited model isn’t so limited anymore. It always has some effect on someone. The real kicker for me is that the outfits doing recasts are not just trying to help the hobby and get older oop models into our hands, they are purposely trying to steal from someone else, they are only doing it for the money, and that’s super shady.
@@eBayMiniatureRescues all great points. Thank you
Hi Casey, if you have the vast majority of the miniature and you can't get the rest because that miniature is no longer available and maybe this miniature is one that you have always wanted then although going done the recast route is not ideal but you have no choice then just for once I do not think it is to much of a problem.
On one hand I 100% agree, cause it's already a model I own and I'm trying to fix it, so I should be allowed to do that however I need to. But giving money to people who are actively trying to steal from more companies than just GW is tough. It's not like they are super-open websites with reputable systems or something, these people are actively hiding and changing servers to avoid legal action. Idono, it's a weird place to be in, I just want my mini look right lol.
A lighter base would fit Perfectly to the Nice purple paintjob !
I need to do this with the Venerable Black Templars Dread I have. My Cat decided to eat the banner pole one night after I went to bed working on it. I do buy recast stuff for OOP items, mainly rhino and LR doors and MKII stuff. If it's still being made I do go official even though the temptation to save money on the recast is there.
Yea finding these old FW dreads is a pain. I searched for that blastmaster arm for more than 2 years and finally found one a few weeks ago.
I'm not sure if it's a thing or not, but if the liquid gets warm in the cleaner, why not just put it in the fridge for a while beforehand? I've used this pre-cooling for reusable molds to stop UV resin from warping them with heat, so might work here too.
What paints were used for the gold and silver?
Vallejo Metal color gold and steel, great line of metallic paints, probably the best out there!
@@eBayMiniatureRescues thank you!!! They look amazing on the model , brilliant job
My opinion on this is the same, OOP models is fine to be recast, but I also say that recast absurdly expensive stuff is too, because it isn't coming from any kind of lgs, and yes I am talking about a warlord
the only recast i had was one of khalida, (i have the original in metal), and i used it to make a conversion for some dark mechanicus magos .
those old dreads were often a brown/goldish resin.
CCON approbbe this video.
What paints did you use?
Golden High Flow purple and fluorescent pink mostly.
Yeah Recasting in generell is a bit of an issue for me too. If the model is seriously out of production, and there is no successor for that model in the lineup... then, recasting is a viable option for me, but I would prefer an original if possible.
Normally I would prefer 3d Printing over recasting, for the reasons you yourself mentioned (bad quallity, redicullous prizes even for a mockup) and on a 3d modell I can fiddle around myself untill it suits my needs...
But to be honest: I would much prefer, if I had the opportunity the just call GW or FW or whatever company (this isn't a thing happening only on Warhammer) and get one made for a reasonable prize...
I know of companies which run limited numbers of old production spezimens every once in a while, best example are car-companies, BMW and Mercedes will happily provide you with replacement-parts for your car up to 50 years after it's production (that's garantied... well if your car will make it that long, in the first place... *coff coff*)
"Even in Death, I got Served..."
Honestly, I considered buying recasts before...working it in my head that if I get one original from Forgeworld (I was contemplating 1e Horus Heresy at the time), I could then proceed to do recasts with no issue. That said, only ever got the Forgeworld Stuff. Now that I'm trying to shoot for smaller scale, not even recasting would do much for me I imagine, plus models at 15mm scale and less are just so cheap that I almost laugh at 28mm recast prices...
If you find the right caster the quality is generally better than gw and takes less cleanup work. And when characters like abbadon are only 6 bucks vs 40 I can feel satisfied doing conversions more while not spending 1000+ on one army
Are Chaos dreadnought still a thing? Would love to get one, kitbashed or one i can save from eBay
I have a couple of recasts, usually limited edition models from 20+ years ago that aren't available anywhere.
If I can get the original I will, but if I can't then it justifies a recast for me.
I’d say if they still sell it then recast bad but if they don’t sell it anymore than it’s preserving history and letting people get there hands on something that wasn’t being sold anymore
❤ I think the GuN is a Blast master
I do not hate the recasting of OOP models. There are so many cool old models, like the Goof Rockers oder the old Space Wolves chaplin, that you can not really get your hands on anymore because no one is selling or selling to prices that are just like you could also buy GW and have them thne recaste the model for you. I only have problems with recasting if it is of models you still can buy for normal price in stores or direkt on the website, because that is just not right.
I also view OOP miniatures like OOP cars
if some dude was making replica vintage cars in his garage, I'd buy them too
Nice video today
Much appreciated :)
I'm totally with you with regard to recasting. However, what are your thoughts on recasting old models? Like an old Malus Darkblade for example. There are only a finite amount of models floating around, inflating prices. I don't have an opinion about it either way, just curious. :)
I guess it depends, sort of? Like if there is a mass produced model that I wanted parts for, then I'm cool with printing a piece for it, so recasting would be in the same boat. BUT, if it's a limited model that is collectable now, even though it's limited, I don't like the idea of flooding the market with copies that lower the price of a sought after item. Like if it was Magic the Gathering and we were all playing super rare super expensive cards that are worth a ton of money now, that would kind of kill the collecting game and the second hand market. Collecting has always been part of games like Warhammer and Magic, and it would hurt collectors who did pay for those limited or hard to get items. As much as I would want a model like that, I would never feel right getting a knock off.
@@eBayMiniatureRescues I can see that. Especially for the reserved list of cards in MTG. However, GW has some models that were regular/common, which are now super hard to get (e.g. Malus (reading the second omnibus now)) . The comparison in MTG is fair, only in MTG they actively increase supply of cards that are used extensively. Having said that, I guess the comment can be made that some old models have no use in the game anymore, therefore, why should there be a supply? For example Sol Ring has been reprinted a lot due to the Commander environment it is living in right now. That reprint made total sense. By that same token, Malus has no place in the game at the moment really... (I just want a malus dammit haha)
If the model isn't available there's no issue in my mind. also keeps prices down for old models because I don't believe hording models should be encouraged to profit from them.
I wonder if L.A's totally awesome sent out a bunch of sponsorship money recently. Been seeing everyone mention using it the past two weeks.
Lol I wish! I buy so much of that stuff
Question… what about green stuff modeling?
That's really never been a problem, because it's not something your mass producing. If you sculpt something for a model you own, or from scratch, then it's generally seen as a great skill in the hobby. Recasting relies on other people to do the hard work and copies parts in order to make money.
It's okay as long as it's GW stuff. They to be the most predatory hobby company around tbh.
I think it depends if the model is OOP. If so, yes I would buy a recast.
Recasting technically still voliates the IP right of the original owner but considering that the model in question had been out of production for years they can hardly claim a loss of profit on their part.
you know what's more heretical than the taint of chaos? recasts.
My opinion on recasts is similar to that of pirating: If whatever you're after is available for purchase from the official source, please, support the creator with an official purchase.
However, if the item is no longer being produced/supported, the item is being made artificially rare by sporadic/limited releases, scalpers are buying up all available inventory and reselling it for ludicrous amounts of money, or the creator is absolute trash and you refuse to support them for their actions (poor treatment and/or harassment of employees/customers, a constant history of lying to customers and/or bad releases, accepting an exclusivity deal long after advertising the item for sale on a different site/platform, etc.), I have no issue with purchasing a bootleg/recast. Yeah, you get what you pay for and have to put in extra work to make it look good (I still have a lot to do with my recast of Kingdom Death's Fade), but if you really want the item and refuse to/can't get it officially due to one of the reasons listed above, don't be afraid to turn to outside sources.
GW needs to evolve with the technology. What if GW just released the 3d files for out of print models? Would that drastically affect them?, because ATM they barely have any good will with the customer base :P
Honestly? I don't think it would; but it would be an admission of defeat for Forge World. On the one hand; it's saving in resin costs and manpower, and would let their sculpting teams create STLs for niche kits or designs like the different Guard units.
At the same time; they do lose sales this way. STL packs are cheap. Mini sets are not. STLs can be reused, and people can take on a "print and sell" mentality; so it would mean ultimately less money to FW as a branch.
Recasting is definitely a grey area. Recasts of models currently in the catalogue are less legal and do harm incomes of the legitimate manufacturer. And it is definitely an issue for smaller companies, as you say.
I have less of a problem when it comes to out of production models that GW are highly unlikely to reinstate in any capacity; I have to resort to markets that don't give them money regardless, and second hand markets are as bad as GW themselves for pricing in many cases.
I've been burned by recasts a couple of times, so I've seen a spread of recast quality.
As a few others have said, recasts of OOP models seems okay. New sill in production ones not so much. What you did with this particular model seems fair use of a recast.
I like grabbing recasts for kitbashing models I wouldn't want to destroy otherwise.
Recasting is okay, as long as it's funny and hurts a major company :)
i dont have a issue with recast as long as the model is out of production. no ones losing out there
I think recasting is fine if the model isint made anymore its like people emulating old Nintendo games they don't make them anymore they arnt makeing money off it anymore because it's all resellers and it's fine because it keeps someone's work alive and a hobby thriving