Happy (almost) 2022! We are so thankful to have you here with us and we're wishing you the best for the coming year! We've JUST finished the insulation today (as I publish this video) and we CANNOT WAIT to share it with you! What do YOU think of today's insulation convo? Would love your feedback :) Let's chat below, and don't forget to sub for more! Snuggles from Millie!! xoxo
Tapped moisture, Vapor build up. Condensation...MOLD ... where is the video on "cold roof" method exterior insulation THEN ventilated air flow gap AND "perfect wall/100 year wall"/BSE 101 method for interior/home insulation .. Are you familiar? .@@ladiandmargaret
@@ladiandmargaret also, are you familiar with: Ants & Termites EATING *rigid foam board* ...not just mice, but ants, meal worms, termites etc WILL turn it into a fine powder!!!!!!!! There are *ant & termite resistant* foam boards but I am have not heard anyone specify how they do in the real world ... ??
What I feel should've been talked about is the condensation on metal when the temperatures inside and outside are different. For that reason stuff like Armaflex is great. I personally don't understand why you'd like to put wires under the insulation though. Just more convenient to put them on top where they are more reachable when you want to modify/add/delete parts of the electricals.
wire routing takes up a surprising amount of space in such a small area, especially if you want it all to still be accessible. Chances are you will have built significant internals on top of the routing and will be loath to change it anyway as you will rip out lots of stuff. And with careful planning you are unlikely to actually change the wiring arrangement. It's actually less planning than you would put in to try to make the surface wiring still accessible but still discreet.
i have also used armaflex on parts of the van (internal side of interior ply panels on rear and side door, where rigid board is difficult to fit and spray foam will interfere with door mechanisms. it works very well, however, where there is a large temp gradient (~40C in alpine winter as insulation for the Maxxfan port) i find that it degasses a bit and shrinks by about 3% (1cm across a 35cm width). not sure whats happened in the door panels
Hi Margaret, your comment on security made me remember supplying a used vehicle to someone in a dangerous part of the world. He requested a "kill" switch installed on the vehicle that could be surreptitiously activated if they were held up at gunpoint! It had to have a delay incorporated of I think 30 minutes, long enough for the robbers to get away from them and then be impossible to re-start. They would then be far enough away to keep the owner safe from retribution. I never heard if it was ever activated, but he seemed happy with the installation. Many thanks for another interesting video.
I love that you are doing so much research on each component of your van build… then educating us. I appreciate knowing some techy stuff before watching that section of your van build being implemented.
in our build, we used Rock Wool and stuffed it everywhere, literally if there was a gap, we put some in there. Not packed it in, just put it in. We took the door panels off stuffed in in there and between the cabin topper and the frame. Then we put a vapor barrier over the walls of reflectix and reflectix tape. then put up the furring strips that gave us a good inch between the reflectix and the wood walls. For the floor and ceiling we used insulated foam boards and reflectix tape. We have spent the night in 18 degree weather by turning the van's heat on for about 10 minutes, and it kept the van warm all night. And yeah, it took us A LONG time to get all that done too.
Very helpful (and in our case, reassuring) video. We used foam core for the floors, thinsulate for the walls/ceiling and were gifted some wool, so we used that to stuff the nooks and crannies. In conjunction with our Espar heater, we are very comfortable in the van when it's cold outside. .
Having watched a bazillion van videos I think this is a really useful way of assessing why and how to create the van situation I would actually be able to use most happily. I like what your doing it shows a greater base of knowledge than just fawning over a creation and not understanding why or how to make good choices. Keep doing this.
I love these kinds of videos!! I am doing a vanbuild right now and I have a building science university degree. I want to add onto the vapour barrier debate. First of all, I get why you would want to add a vapour barrier, I know the importance of it in a house. However, there are a few fundamental differences between a house and a van: metal exterior and diy building. For a vapour barrier to work, every puncture of the barrier needs to be sealed again. If done perfectly the vapour barrier adds to the build big time, but if done imperfectly, it has the opposite affect. Where the screws go through (metal and therefore can get quite cold in some situations) condensation can happen, which due to the barrier cant escape. Mold will form around the screws there. Also how sure are you that the outside of the van is air tight (for years and years)? After buying an old van I am not too sure that this is the case for our van (even after doing so much work on it to try). If it is not air/water tight in a tiny spot, condensation will happen that has no way to quickly dry out and therefore mold will form. I know that this is a fairly new discussion for van life, but RVs are around for longer and they are made with vapour barriers. Older Rvs are now full of mold, that is why they always have a very distinctive smell. I decided on getting an water absorbing insulation that is good against mold (sheeps wool) and a construction without vapour barrier that has a lot of breathability (insulation, air gap, cladding which is what they would do in a house). Mold in a small tiny house is very unhealthy and toxic, I would not risk it!! Also: consider what kind of particles insulation is emitting. Usually, normal house insulation is not fitted for tiny homes because it is harder to create the passive ventilation (in housing MANDATORY, when using non natural insulation and building materials) that keeps the air clean enough to breath safely. Thats why tiny houses are often insulated with wool as well!
Hi Marit, I'm an architect, who has some experience in detailing building envelopes. At least in Australia (I can't speak on other places) there is a strong move to using vapour PERMEABLE membranes, such as CSR Enviroseal Proctorwrap. The difference between this and traditional vapour barriers is that the permeable ones are designed to allow water vapour to transfer without air (and hence your thermal air barrier). This is important in preventing moisture trapping in the insulation zone and causing mould, but that moisture will transfer into the van. However, if there is an air gap and a vapour barrier, vapour will collect, and run down to the bottom, which is where Margaret rightly said to keep the channels with drip holes free. As for breathing /cooking /other things ;) you need to open the roof vents /windows and allow some air to come in and out.
Wool is a good insulation if it can breath, it absorbs moisture so it needs air movement to dry if it gets wet. If you want to learn best practices you can learn a lot from the professionals that specialize in construction and insulating metal sided buildings.
So I am just barely holding on here in terms of having a verrry basic understanding of insulation but an allergy to mold. I heard a Canadian gent speak about Sheep’s wool in the context of eventually it will sift and not hold an even insulation. And the possibility of it molding. He suggested a few things the only one I can remember is a kind of ceramic insulation? You and May I ask you both what you think of cork as an insulator in a van?
Interesting 🧐 I am building my van as we speak I covered as much of my walls as I could with sound deadening now I am stuffing with wool wool wool: According to Margaret on the video I stuffed too much wool in the bottom of the van where your weep holes are so I took all of my wool out and I struggled trying to find something to put in the bottom to hold the wool up off of the bottom to keep the wool from getting wet from the weep holes : which when taking my wool out I had found a small area where some water had already made its way in and got a very small area of my wool wet ::: the way my van is built There is no way to put the wool over top of my cavities that go down in there without the WOOL falling in so I am taking plastic fencing Rolling it in small rolls and strapping it to stay in this shape with zip ties everything will be plastic nothing should rust nothing should really rot that way I can still insulate a little bit down in there to help keep my floors a little warmer if interested I can send you a picture of how I did this with your education of vapor barrier I’m hoping this will work of --- worrying about moisture getting in and causing me mold problems is really a concern for me as I am 70 and going to be going on the road “ hopefully with my almost “100” year old MOTHER “ She wants her last adventure ;) I’m working hard and fast to get this going this little setback caused me some time : however ; I am very glad I saw Margaret’s video :::::: Linda ANYONE HAVE ANY POINTERS FOR ME IS ALWAYS WELCOME --- I hope to be running a small dehumidifier and an air cleaner No mold is a must for us 😷
So glad to see you addressing this issue. I'm a high school Physics teacher and the lack of proper insulation and dealing with thermal bridges in van conversions drives me crazy!
Your right about the spray foam. It’s the best thing out there I used it. It will also warp your van. I warped mine. That being said if I did it again I would do the roof where insulation is most important and a little warping is no big deal. As far as the sides I feel like if you tape off all your cracks and don’t let the foam between your ribs and the skin of your van you’ll be ok. The one saving grace is you can break it out of the bad spots and the warping goes away. Long story short, one hour to foam the van and 3 days to scrape it from between the ribs to remove MOST of the warping. What the van industry needs is someone to spend a million dollars to test everything there is scientifically and come up with the answer. All anyone can do now is make an educated guess and pray.
Thank you for making these discussion and theory videos! I'm trying to plan a van build myself and I have a huge collection of van tours that have inspired my layout and features, but everything between the bones and the furniture is a big question mark! I really appreciate all the research you're sharing with us and the space you're offering for different views and experiences.
I only always hear insulation in the context of being warm, but insulation works two ways. A well insulated house or vehicle can also be a lot cooler. Given that you also do the same as in the winter, keeping all the doors and windows closed when it's outside warmer then inside (ideally also darken windows). When an AC is being used, this also means that the AC will work a lot more efficient. In general rockwool is always a very decent go-to, not as good as foam boards but cheaper. Just not really nice to work with (nasty, but NOT lethal) , not as bad as glass wool. The more organic kinds are really nice on paper, on practice their R-values are kind of sad unfortunately (as much as I REALLY wish that wasn't the case) Personally I always just go for hybrid approaches. There is no reason to go only for one type of material only.
Rockwool is actually pretty safe. Just wear a dust mask and you're good to go. My plan for my insulation (I'm very close to that phase in my build) is a combination of as much as I can install foam panels with some sprayed foam to seal, rockwool in the wall conducts and other tight spots or... near door mechanism. And a layer of reflectix covered air bubble plastic wrap. Should be good enough... The bottoms of the walls bothers me to be honest. I really don't want moisture accumulation there, but I don't want cold coming from there either... Maybe the bubble wrap reflectix will be enough there 🤔😅
@@laurelanderson-rostami109 basically the same way. Just make sure it stays cool inside instead of getting warm. For example an AC also works much more efficient with better insulation.
I feel like if you're steadily doing van life below freezing... that an absolutely perfectly sealed vapor barrier is so important. If frost manages to form on sheet metal behind your walls, you're in for bad times. Literally had my rear doors freeze shut because melting frost formed a barrier 😅 good video 👍
This style of video is similar to your reviews of other van lifer builds. Between your explanations and Ladi's design and build skills, this is bar none the best van build resource out there. It's exactly why I subscribed. More, por favor!
Really enjoyed this format. Its something I really loved about your van design reviews, the intelligent discussion around decisions. As a designer and builder myself I find the information really helpful and interesting. The build is looking so good! Big love to you three and the rest of your community near and far.
Thusfar, Ladi has been implimenting all of the ideas I've had in my head for my next van. I REALLY want to know how he plans on designing the convertible shower. Is it a dual shell design, is it using a flexible barrier, does the counter top rise with it, if so, how is he levering it to conform with the van wall, how is the door being designed, is the toilet built in, on a drawer slide, or removable, how is the ducting for the exhaust being routed.. SO many questions. Can't wait to see an indepth video on that one! To add, very few youtubers in our community provide the kind of value add that your channel does. I don't follow many but you both provide such good content, with such great editing and showcasing your amazing personalities that I find myself eagerly waiting for the next video to drop. One area I think your channel could expand to provide more relevant information to the community: Electronics. I dont know how comfortable you both are talking about it, but there are some fantastic resources online that could serve as the basis for an entire series on DIY electrical engineering for the Van community. I'm thinking synchronous buck converter MPPT designs, arduino (WeMos boards for automating via Blynk apps), how to program a rasberry pi to control solenoid valves (I see Ladi is likewise looking to impliment a grey water dump cam, great minds!). An example could be adding auto leveling to your beds actuator system, assuming they're rated for the weight, something I've got on my wish list for my next build. Just an idea, there are so many ways that building a van can serve as a platform for educating people to be more self suficient. Your channel is and will continue to help push the community towards ever greater feats. Thank you.
PUEDE SER MUY EDIFICANTE APRENDER, PERO SE NECESITAN HERRAMIENTAS QUE HABITUALMENTE EN UNA CASA NORMAL NO LAS HAY COMO UN CORTADOR Y PULIDOR DE MADERA O UN CORTADOR O DOBLADOR DE TUBOS, O UN CORTADOR DE HIERRO. HAY UNOS UTILES QUE SE UTILIZAN QUE HABITUALMENTE NO ESTAN EN LAS CASAS, COMO COSA NORMAL, ZEL DIA A DIA, NI MUCHA GENTE TIENE UN ALMACEN, PARA TENER TANTAS Y TAN GRANDES HERRAMIENTAS DE PRECISIÓN.
that is so cool to hear! UA-cam has become so overwhelming with build videos that I even find myself getting lost in information. You've got me excited to do more of these!
A lot of what I like about your channel is the construction work you put into your ideas... and why you decide on those ideas in the first place. This would be particularly important when discussing insulation, as all builds need some form of insulation in the build. IMHO, and only an "O"... it would be good to discuss (1) benefits and issues with each type of insulation, (2) the installation process, and (3) mistakes made when installing. For instance, wool can be a good insulator, but only if not compressed, which I have unfortunately seen a lot of UA-cam van builders do. The thinking is, if a little does well for insulation, the more they can get into that space, the better the insulation. The problem of course is, by compressing the wool, you no longer can trap air, which is why wool is such a good insulator in the first place, so the "R" value gets lower and lower with the more you stuff into those little spaces. And then there is the problem with R-Value in the first place. This is tested in a lab, without the issues of compression found in a van. Then there are EER ratings for the A/C unit, the shape of the interior of the van with its corresponding air flow, the extremes of weather, and so on. All of these things affect insulating properties, and all seem to be left out of most videos and discussions on the subject. FYI, the van we are getting uses aircraft insulation (ua-cam.com/video/wanZmR82nWg/v-deo.html&ab_channel=RoadsofLife), and in real world situations, this insulation has been shown to be extremely efficient. Is it the best? No such thing, but it is something to consider. Be seeing you.
Your absolutely right about insulating the doors as long as you don’t interfere with locking Mechanism. I like use rigid foam for large areas and spray foam for those differcut small areas. These small areas won’t cause problem in panel distortion. Having insulated curtain behind cab seats helps tremendously.
I agree 100% with everything you said (use of reflectix as "insulation" and insulating below the floor level and blocking the drains being the ones I see more often) but I disagree with one thing you already did on your van (not sure if the shots were from your previous van or this one). You saw how strong Kingspan is, you said it yourself. So why use battens on the floor then? You can lay the plywood directly over the Kingspan sheets and it will be perfectly fine. That way you will also minimize thermal brakes (even if it's just the floor, which is not really that important unless of course, you do heated floors). If you really need the battens to bolt your furniture on (not really necessary) then just put battens where your furniture will go.
@@PresidentBust I put an insulated floor in an old barn which I converted to an office/edit suite and I laid 75mm Celotex/Kingspan straight onto the concrete and then boarded over the top with flooring grade chipboard. I experienced zero issues in the 10 years I was there, so I'd go along with Spiro.
@@ladiandmargaret Yeah, but as Spiro pointed out, you can put battens where your furniture needs to be fixed down, but you don't need to make a framework with battens where nothing will fix to them.
I LOVE that you use science and technology and explain what you are doing. Your critiques are the very best videos you put out there. It really bothers me that there are so many other content producers who are firmly stating "this is The Way" when they are twenty somethings, building their first van, and just repeating something (ill advised) they picked up on the internet. Love seeing clips to learn from. We are not doing the vapor barrier. Thinsulate for sides and cavities, pink board for the floor, and white board for the ceilings. Just getting it up there was SO much effort. Not going to kid myself that we could successfully do a vapor barrier. Still deciding if we are going to apply automotive carpet for a thermal bridge or just love the cold metal cause we can attach magnets!.
Amazing build, attention to detail and functionality. I thought I was the only one who did this when building something. It’s the little things that make the difference. It can get frustrating at times. But we love the struggle. Keep it up!!!
Hey! I used spray foam out of the cans and insulated myself. It expands in the easiest direction so it never pushed hard against my van panels at all. The problem I had was it doesn't stick to the metal panels of the van. I had to put up in my walls and spray foam behind it using a 5mm hole which filled the cavity. Never seen anyone do this. It has worked without issue. We will see how good it is once my build is finished 👍🏻
Insulation is a rather tricky when it comes to van build - we spent ages researching insulating methods before attempting ours, and even now, there are things we could defiantly improve upon. The long and the short of it is, the van is a metal can, that is not really designed to be insulated for human habitation, but we all do what we can. Honestly, next time, we would love to try spray foam insulation, and see how it compares. 😊
Don't use spray foam! It is not the right thing to use. If you ever need to access wiring after doing that forget it. It's a terrible choice for houses - don't do it to your van!
Nice overview. Careful about falling into the habit that so many woman do, of questioning their own knowledge and expertise while they are presenting a topic. You do the detailed work researching and learning from your vast experience. So be confident and just communicate the limitations of the info you are sharing. Keep up the great work.
We absolutely love your videos, Margaret! Keep it up :) We are building our own van in Brazil, so we definitely don't have some materials available like you have in Europe, US, or AUS, but we are making the best of it, thanks to your PRECIOUS tips and detailed information. It's our first van build and here in Brazil the van culture is not as much popular as it is in the Nothern hemisphere so we've been doing A LOT of research. We actually consider ourselves super innovative, as we are not just copying what everyone is doing, but studying and getting to our own results... pretty much like you guys :) Thank you so much for being such an inspiration for us, for being real and very straightforward (de-romaticizing a bunch of stuff we see about vanlife on social media...!).
Thermal barriers are tied up with dew point and interstitial condensation. Warm air will hold a percentage of water, cold air holds less. As the warm air cools there is a point where it has to give up the trapped water. Hence where water filled warm air comes in contact with cold glass, or metal, condensation forms as the air cools. This caused a big issue when people filled their house cavities with insulation as, where previously, the point of condensation was within the cavity, the moisture would drain away, insulating could mean the moisture would form within the insulation soaking it and reducing the level of insulation rather than increasing it. Your point in maintaining clear bottom cavities is well made as the outer skin of the vehicle is likely to get wet on the inside and that water has to go somewhere. Vapour barrier - you don't really want your water filled hot air to escape to somewhere it can cool and condense. If it can escape and come in contact with cold metal it will make the surface of that metal wet. If you trap that water filled warm air this is good, assuming it doesn't cool because then it still has to give up that water. In summary - it's complicated. You don't want air to cool behind or within something that can absorb moisture because it will become wet/damp. Your point that clothes in cupboards are insulation is reasonable except, if the inside face of your sweater is 20ºC, and the outside face is 0ºC, any moisture in the air will be given up between those two points ie, in the middle of your sweater. This is interstitial condensation.
I will add that clothes in the cupboard will only act as insulation if the cupboards are full and the clothes tight together. Lose clothes here and there in a half full cupboard will insulate nothing.
Great talk on insulating properly. My one concern is the statement that having more insulation when you are in a hotter environment just traps the heat in. While true, it does not address how to keep cool in warmer environments without massive us of A/C. Clearly some insulation is vital or an A/C system could never keep up. I have yet to see anyone talk about venting a van later in the day when temps cool a bit to pull the heat out. The energy is trapped in the thermal mass of the interior, and I haven't seen a single design that has systems to deal with this. I saw Greg Virgoe's thumbs up, which is good to see. His talk is based in the science of construction and building envelops. Your solar panel lift is a fantastic design. I used similar lifts to open a "door" in the floor of my house to get to the basement. My first set of lifts lasted five years. Congrats on having the biggest power supply I've seen on any build of a class B. You guys win!
The closed cell spray foam is great for something like building a diy truck bed camper. The spray foam when done correctly will add not only insulation but also add a lot of strength/rigidity. So you can use lighter thinner strips of wood for the frame & thinner walls. It also keeps the wood from rotting if it's completely enclosed.
Well, it's not a matter of agree/disagree but I used 1/2 polyiso board (that hard stuff) and it will bend and slightly fracture to accommodate a curve, primarily the roof. What I did first was EZ-Cool (reflectics-like) everywhere first that could apply a sheet to via 3M-90 as I did not want the bare metal exposed to the climate inside and potential gathering of moisture and subsequent rust, mold, smell. 3 years no problem. Used R-13 in areas could not do this routine but EZ over these areas too as a vapor barrier. In a small 130wb MR Transit so at 5'11" you use the 6' clearance up easy. 1/2" poly on floor with a 1/4" wood sheeting and indoor/outdoor carpet glued on. Yes, it gets cold IF you let the cab area cold air in so a floor to ceiling curtain a must. And yes, gotta do both the rear doors (but have a 1" wall in-between me and it) and the slider lower portion. Gotta say though, the EZ directly on the metal must have some benefit as it is not cold to the touch as bare metal is so transfer of cold must be being reduced to some benefit; these were areas I could not access for insulation (B pillar, C pillar) when I was doing the job. 18 out last night and low of 63 inside with my heater on low/ 9000 btu (Dickinson P-9000) fan on high. High fan would yield 70 no doubt but very comfy overall.
I thoroughly enjoy the theory, breakdown videos. This allows me to be practical and critically thing through every aspect of the build. Especially for someone with no building experience.
Seeing a new video put up gives me joy. I look forward to your videos. I appreciate the information and even though I’m allergic to cats Millie is cute. Specifically for windows you can use a product like 3M crystalline to reduce the heat intake of your windows. That’s the only product I have experience with, I’m sure there are other products. First in a friends and my classic cars. I use 80% and because it’s pretty much clear I can also use it on the windshield. I cannot feel any heat transfer when in direct sunlight on my windows now. It makes a big difference. One of my best friends family used it to do their over 100 year old house with single pane windows. It halved their AC bill and changed how the house feels. I texted him to see if it made any difference in the winter with cold and have yet to get back an answer. One of the problems we have with classic cars is rust when the drain holes get blocked. It might be a good idea to make sure all the drain holes are clear. In cooking I found that propane contains a lot of moisture. I would think avoiding propane for products that use a dry heat would help reduce moisture in the van. What are your thoughts about using a humidifier in the van to reduce moisture?
First....Happy New Year! Second....I found this video and info VERY helpful. I'll be starting my (short) bus conversion in the spring and am gathering as much info and advice as I can.....and one important focus is insulation (which I haven't actually seen featured as a main topic on bus/skoolie/ambo tours). I currently live in Ontario, Canada, and once my conversion is completed I'll be "chasing 70" as they say, so I'm not concerned about freezing cold or boiling hot temps, but I will have pets in my tiny-home-on-wheels (I have one dog and one cat now but will be getting another---larger/for protection--dog once I'm on the road) so for them I want the rig to be at a consistent (or close to consistent temp). I also will be doing this conversion on a limited budget....so my question....do you think it's wise to do, the foam board in the floors and walls and then wool for the back door and ceiling? Also, I watched a great short bus tour last night and he made a great point.....many people block off the front of their van/bus/shuttle/ambulance from the "main house part" by putting that barrier BEHIND the driver's seat, but that's a bad idea when it comes to safety as you want to be able to access your driver's seat as quickly as possible in case of attempted-break-in or other danger near your rig....so he recommended (and he's lived on the road for many years) to put that barrier (black out curtain for instance) in FRONT of the driver's seat. So sorry for the long comment. P.S. I really miss the videos you used to make, where you talked about the good and not-so-good aspects of various vanbuilds :-)
i think you do a very good job of explaining the theories or just explanations in general. especially for someone who knows NOTHING about this! so here's your confirmation lol i love this channel! THANK YOU SO MUCH....for helping me avoid future problems and/or regrets!
I'm working on a box truck build and have found your videos to be so helpful. My partner and I have been debating about which insulation to use; stiff foam board or spray foam. This video really cinched it for me. Since, we have nothing but straight flat sides, foam board is now the plan. Thanks!
I like the idea of the window covers not just having reflectix inside by itself, but also some padding to create an air space. Previously I had abandoned the idea of reflectix window covers.
I insulated my van with mylar and dacron, just like the space station, cheap and very effective. For my windows I used triple weave thermal block out fabric. Any loose fibre insulation, like fibreglass and wool, invites potential for moisture absorption which leads to mold and rust.
Next week i will be installing close cell foam, your videos was of open cell which is used more in house builds and expands more, close cell will only expand about 25mm. Close cell has a mass R value of 6.5 plus it also offers vapour and sound deadening. I am doing walls doors and celling in a vario bus and predict it will take one day. I do run a spray foam company so have a full set up rig, am hoping on good thing from it
We went with Havelock Wool. Still building it out but we DID stuff the wool down in all the small nooks in the doors that I’m sure many people overlook. Planning to use the wool as the only insulation along with reflectics on top
Regarding installing foam board on a curved wall, a truck is that you can measure the shape of the wall with a contour tool (sections of straight edges held together by hinges) and score the backside of the piece you intend to install at the same locations as the hinges on the contour tool. The foam board will then fit curved walls very well
I’ve been watching can builds for years now so I was tracking with what you’re saying. It was helpful to hear your take and why you did it. Love your van build videos and how you’re having fun with it
I agree with your points. What I did in my Unimog shelter is just make a styrofoam box inside of it with a air gap between the metal box and insulation. I didn't do the floor because I don't have standing height. I will install a 2KW diesel heater. And I will make sure I have fresh air flow. I really don't get people filling every tiny hole. I didn't fill anything it is just a complete box with straight walls. When sleeping in it without a heater I already notice the insulation working. The reason for the 4cm styrofoam was that it was free 🤩
I own a converted cargo van, it has panel windows behind driver and on the slide door, 10x33 widows on either side of the raised fixed bed and two roof fans. Here's my thought on insulation: Insulate? Sure but I think the whole thing is over thought and overblown. Millie's got it right (wool), and don't go crazy - KISS. Not only is a van a tin can with windows, unlike a house or apartment, it moves! The climate can literally change in a matter of hours and then again, and again ..... Spend the time and money elsewhere. Here's what I did to compliment and assist the Havelock Wool I have in the walls and ceiling, and foam board in the floor: Rixen's heat & hot water system, Cruise N Comfort 24v AC and a power system that can handle it, limo-tinted the windows and, had all the windows coated with IR heat reflecting ceramic film - even the windshield. My van will be just as comfy in Phoenix as it will be in Calgary. I hope :-)
Along with foam board, we used mineral (rock) wool, which I don’t think you mentioned. It doesn’t absorb moisture, is less expensive, and is easily available at Home Depot or Lowes. Followed by a vapor barrier of reflectix. Sheep wool must be purchased online and it’s difficult to know exactly how much to order. It was nice to be able to just go buy more mineral wool when we needed it. Plus when we were building, Havlock wool (sheep) was on back order. (We chose our materials because of the Greg Virgo videos.). Anyway, our van stays comfortably warm now. We did leave an edge of exposed metal around our windows so to be able to attach the window covers with magnets. I used reflectix in the window covers, with batting, covered with ripstop. They work very well. And because we insulated the cab, we haven’t needed a curtain which is nice because we use our swivel seats. Sorry this is a long comment. I enjoy your videos.
@@spiroszaharakis2648Poulin Building Materials says this about Rockwool when comparing three different materials for insulation... "It’s hydrophobic, so it won’t absorb water or encourage the growth of mold and mildew. Mineral wool is also very fire resistant and can act as a fire stop."
Rockwool's technical paper clearly states that it's not to be used in high humidity environments. You can't compare a house with several cubic meters of displacement with a tiny van that gets huge amounts of condensation every day when people live in it. Hydrophobic doesn't mean waterproof. It will withstand the moisture levels of a typical house and that's about it. As for the fire resistance properties, with all the other flamable materials inside a van, if your van catches fire, insulation fire properties will be your last concern. You will be dead well before the fire reaches the insulation. @BenjaminHansen
Absolutely great video. I am from northern Canada and I KNOW cold and having extensive renovation experience I also know insulation. With that said, I can tell you have done your research and agree with you 90%. Not a fan of the wood sleepers on the floor, but everything else is on point. I chose rockwool instead of sheeps wool for cost and the fact that rodents love sheep and hate rock. all in all great, informative video
I agree that windows are the biggest battle with insulation, we didn't want too many window but wanted some more daylight, we have a good balance. The heat and cold come through he window soooo quickly.
Thank you for the video. Very helpful. Something to point out. Insulation works both ways. So a well insulated space will be cool in the summer and warm in the winter.
I love the thought process! I don't think I will live in a van but have thought of it as a camper before to go visit family. But even if I don't it's nice to hear the thought process and the logic of why you used or did what so that what ever happens in my life I can use that to help me.
I’m late to watch this time, but I love Margaret’s info videos. Even if I don’t understand them in the exact moment, they are always fun to come back to after watching Ladi work is magic. You guys have one of the most informative build series I’ve seen.
Good video covering the basics. So many build videos out there without proper planning. Always love to see some good technical information. Ramble away!!!
I love the theory aspect. I like the rationale behind decisions to think about. I like lists of options and why one is better than another. We are refurbishing a 1988 Econoline conversion and love the ideas and the reality of the time it takes to do stuff. Thanks!
Thanks very much for this video. It's actually not rambling at all; lots of important learnings to take away, so kudos for a great job. So much useful and honest info, like the section on the spray foam, and much more. Thanks.
Hi there, good vid, I have spent several winters in an uninsulated VW Cali and now have Ducato factory insulated camper. Not a huge difference in heating bills as small space. Of course as you know without ventilation you are just moving moisture around and it will inevitably form on windscreen or on cold bridges so most important thing is to avoid (almost impossible) trapped moisture and generally maintain an airflow via window, roof vents or whatever. Allow van to air regularly during day and check backs of cupboards for damp and dry where possible. We didn't find any big issues in the Cali as we popped roof as much as possible as well. In airtight and well insulated houses MVHR systems are installed but cost and space likely outweigh benefits in a van (you could design for a niche market? ;)
Thank you very much for taking the time and give an overview of some overlooked mistakes, and how to proceed. Seems like wiring diagram and plan for energy needs should start early.
Thanks for the video. I'm in the middle of insulating our van with polyiso boards. A slow process, a lot of dust from cutting the boards, but insulation is a must here in Brazil. As the British might say: It's rather warm down here.
Margaret, THANK YOU for your thorough consideration of insulation. YES, important because it will determine, in large part, how comfortable you are in the van in the long run. However, when you mention sheep’s wool that has fiberglass woven into it (14:21), you say, “That’s (rats) not really a problem in a van.” While this may be true about the rats, having fiberglass near the living space and not having the fiberglass completely sealed off from the air we’ll breathe when we’re inside the van is UNSAFE. There is a reason that folks who work with fiberglass have to wear respirator masks. Protect your lungs from fiberglass particles AT ALL TIMES. Don’t use it in your van living space. Thank you. P.s: I LOVE YOUR CONTENT.
I, too, love the background, context, and education provided by your talk videos. Combined with technical how-to videos showing your choices, and the comments, they make for a great resource. Thank you so much for sharing all of it with us. 👍👍👍 And because it's my job (lol,) that was a particularly delightful intermission with Millie, and I want more! 😉 Happy New Year! ❄🎉❄
I have a 2019 sprinter high roof. I am tall enough that in my build I want to preserve standing headroom, which limits the floor and the roof insulation. I have lived with it for 18 months to decide what to do. My plan is to use 3 layers of 1/2” (13mm) between the existing van framing. The thinner size does bend enough to make this work. The panels will attach to the van ceiling with the stick on “nails” that Greg virgoe recommended.
Reflectix has a small R Value because it creates an air gap with its bubbles. 3M Headliner Adhesive is superior to 3M Super 77 or contact cement for body panels that get hot in the sun, according to a prominent van builder. Spray foam RISKS detaching from body panels over time as the chassis flexes, and can result in endless annoying squeaks that can be a nightmare to find and solve. Spray foam also makes body shop repairs a nightmare if a small collision needs welding, dent repair, etc.
I absolutely LOVE these explanation, design decision, Margaret rambling videos! It's what makes your channel special (aside from of course super adorable Millie who I can't get enough of and never mad mad-scientist Ladi). I love that you don't just show us what & how you are doing your build, but you explain WHY in such great detail. Happy New Year to you all!
There is one product I don't see used often in van builds, but has been gaining popularity in home construction. That is a spray cork application. The cork provides a thermal break on surfaces it's applied to. I think it might be an interesting method to look at perhaps in a future build. That's not to say it alone will be enough, but I think it might be a good product on the sheet metal first then Havelock or thinsulate etc on top.
I used Sunflex like vapor barrier, because it is combination of vapor barrier, reflective and insulation. Main insulatuion is K-flex (XPS for floor) and it works great.
The insulation debate online is surprisingly full on! After long deliberation we went with 100 percent sheep wool insulation, including floor, ceiling, doors and barrier to the cab, for good R-value, moisture control and environmental friendliness. We decided not to install a vaper barrier due to the theoretical worries moisture can get trapped behind it if there is a hole anywhere. So far it has been holding up well, we don't have a proper heater (but do have some radiant floor heating) and we are reasonably comfortable until about -1 celcius. One tip for anyone: we love love love our 100% cork floor (wisecork), as it stops the floor from feeling cold, another great insulation addition.
Can we talk vapor barriers for a moment? Vapor barriers can be great, but you shouldn't install a vapor barrier (on a van, or a house) without a clear understanding of what you're trying to accomplish. As Margaret says, living inside of a van will tend to raise the humidity of the interior air, and you almost always want to enable that moisture to dissipate to the lower humidity outside. You may also occasionally be somewhere where the outside humidity is very high, either persistently (i.e. high humidity summer locales) or temporarily (i.e. a rainy week). A common strategy to have a vapor impermeable envelope, which will prevent exterior high humidity from migrating inside, and use fans for when you want to vent humidity outside. As Margaret mentioned: there can be a lot of holes in a factory van, and so while sheet metal is vapor impermeable, you might want to add a vapor barrier to "cover" the vapor holes in the van. But if you're going to add an interior vapor barrier, be sure to not create a sandwich of two vapor barriers (the sheet metal and the installed barrier) with a gap between. This can easily result in compartments that don't readily shed humidity to either the exterior or the interior of the van. And what do you get with persistent high humidity in a closed compartment? Mold and other nasty things are a common outcome. Because of all that, I think there are two reasonable options with a van: 1) Don't add an extra vapor barrier. Rely on just the metal skin, and make sure that all the insulating material you install inside is vapor permeable. A well insulated van with vapor permeable insulation will only let moisture move slowly, so you won't rapidly get the outside humidity in the van, but it'll let all the nooks and crannies of the van dry out. 2) Install a vapor barrier as the very first thing you do, and adhere it with (ideally) no gap between the sheet metal shell of the van and the added barrier, so as to not have pockets that have barrier on both sides, and cannot dry to either the outside or inside of the van. Personally, I much prefer option #1. Note that installing two different vapor barriers is a classic mistake that people make building houses, and can have long term health consequences when mold grows in the walls. Note that it's very difficult to install a perfect vapor barrier. And even if it's perfect when you first put it in, you inevitably have penetrations later in the build, and wear and tear on the road, and it's unlikely to stay a perfect vapor barrier for very long. Edit/Update: I realized I didn't talk about one concern some people will be trying to address: condensation. If humid air hits the outer metal skin of the van on a cold day, the air will be cooled beneath the dew point, and condensation will form. If the layers of your van from the outside in are metal skin, insulation, and then vapor barrier, then in theory the vapor barrier keeps the interior humid air out of the insulation cavity. Even if the van is allowed to cool, the condensation will form on an interior surface that's more likely to dry quickly. But if tackling this design, it's a good idea to recognize that a perfect vapor barrier is hard to create and maintain as you're building out your van. It's very likely that high humidity air in the van will seep through flaws in the vapor barrier, into the insulated cavity, and then condense on the inside of the metal skin. Condensation sandwiched between two vapor barriers can take a really long time to dry out, and cause serious problems. So how to address this concern? One way to try and insure that the insulation is vapor permeable, and deliberately provide a route to the outside of the van, so that drying can occur. This takes very careful thought with a van build, since you have to insure that there's a vapor path past the sheet metal skin of the van. Typically this would have to be down through the undercarriage. A second approach is to install insulation that won't let humid air contact the metal skin, even if it leaks through the interior vapor barrier. This approach requires comprehensively attaching the insulation to the metal skin so that there are no air pockets, and using a closed cell insulation. With all the nooks and crannies in a van, in my opinion spray foam is the only viable solution for this approach.
To further clarify this: yes, heat can travel in all directions but only through the mechanisms of convection, conduction and radiation. Convection is (in a van) hot air rising, as described which is largely what the ceiling insulation tries to prevent going any further. Conduction occurs when things touch each other and the heat transfers from the hotter to the colder (eg hence the thermal bridge of the metal described in the video, with heat from inside the van transferring to outside via any exposed metal). That leaves radiation (light; ultra violet through to infra red) which is what Reflectix tries to “bounce back”. You need an air gap on the reflective side because without one, heat would simply conduct between the touching materials into the Reflectix material itself and then into the side of the van.
Well done and very informative. I’m in the process of insulating my van and have used my past experiences with insulation in doing so. You’re right: there’s a lot of mystery and mis Information on this subject. BTW, My floor and ceiling are complete: R10 in the ceiling, R5 on the floor, both using expanded polystyrene. Slowly working on the walls and doors...
I like theses videos, very informative and the fact that you share your understanding along with the implements in your own van build make it perfect. Keep going please :) Thanks
Really pleased to see that you guys are advocating the use of a vapour barrier considering the title of the video. So it's a huge thumbs up from me for doing the right thing 👍👍 Oh and I am subbed too :D
Yayay GREG!!! Fav Vanlife channel of all time! Been loving your Italian content these days and have always learned so much from you. If anyone who is reading this comment isnt subbed to Greg’s channel GO DO IT RIGHT NOW ua-cam.com/users/GregVirgoe
I agree with this because sometimes I just want information and I don't want to see other people's mistakes or bloopers. In fact, I feel that there should be a certain amount of editing done before one post. Especially if one is going to tear it out in the next frame. I really appreciate this video. Van life is still a dream for me but it's a dream with structure. I was worried about the sheep and the and the fiber glass because people were worried about chemicals. But I think personally I would lean toward the fiberglass spray because I really want to be able to go everywhere and anywhere. I'm off the sheep now because I think it's a lot and it's just me. I don't have an engineer husband LOL.
As a certified home inspector and sub contractor that has built, remodeled, and repaired moisture damage on many homes, I can assure you that you SHOULD NOT USE A VAPER BARRIER! Also, only use breathable insulation! The sheet metal on the van is a vapor barrier. If you put one vapor barrier on top of another, then you are creating a place for moisture to be trapped and start molding/rotting materials. Only one side of an envelope should have a vapor barrier and that depends on the climate. Basically, you want the vapor barrier on the HEATED side of the envelope. So in Florida, you put the barrier on the outer sheathing. In Maine, you put it on the inside. Unfortunately with vans, we're stuck with it being on the outside. So when you run heat on the inside during winter, it's best practice to just make sure that your insulation can BREATHE and dry out. This mean, no extra vapor barrier, and no closed cell insulation! Closed cell still allows moisture over time, and I've seen and repaired a lot of rotted sheathing where closed cell spray foam was installed.
I'm using a mix of thinsulate and havelock, I live in a cold climate, with heat rising my ceiling will get a thick layer of wool, the walls will get thinsulate with a few certain areas getting wool..
Great video! I didn't realize the wiring had to be done before the insulation. Great idea about the back door, too. I just got an empty 2020 Ford Transit 250 and have been wanting to start the insulation immediately. I thought if I had all the tools, I could bust it out in one day, but after watching this, it seems a lil overwhelming
I'm an architect. Here are some tips for insulating. When we insulate buildings, it's based on the climate zone. Obviously, van life is mobile, so that's a big challenge. I would use a middle ground climate zone for basis of design. Climate zone 5. In climate zone 5, walls would need an r-7.5 (coninuous), roof r-25, floor r-10. 1"of polyisocyanurate has an r value of 5. Thus, walls would get 1.5", roof would get 5", floor would get 2". This thermal envelope would give you the most optimum performance. Having said that, 5" at the roof may be unachievable due to the height restrictions in the van. I would at least do 2". Another thing that may help is installing a fluid weather barrier on the insulation boards between the boards and the interior face of the metal. When you insulate a van, you will create a dew point in this area. Water will condense there. This weather barrier will give the water a drainage plane to the vans weep system. This video does mention the drainage cavities. The weather barrier is different than a vapor barrier. I would not install a vapor barrier on the interior of the van. It will block natural permiation that is needed for the space to breathe.
Cover all cold bridges as much as you can. Insulate as much as you can, try to avoid non porous materials except anti mould/rust paint on metal surfaces Control moisture with a dehumidifier for when you're not in and heat recovery ventilation system when occupied when occupied. Moisture will always find its way to your exterior van walls where it will stay unless given a way to return. Ease its path with breathable materials.
Wool is a good insulation if it can breath, it absorbs moisture so it needs air movement to dry if it gets wet. If you want to learn best practices you can learn a lot from the professionals that specialize in construction and insulating metal sided buildings.
I'm glad to see that you answer comments - I don't really care to comment when there's no feedback. I'd like to hear your views on various floor heat options. BTW, love the Millie interludes! I hope to be able to get a cat in my van someday
Cats are the absolute best Vanlife creatures! But I’m biased haha. We’re working on ordering our floor heating mats now, but we have no interest in running any hoses with hot water under the floor to heat it up. We wanna have it a bit more simple
@@ladiandmargaret thanks! I looked into floor heating mats when I had a sticks&bricks, but not for the 12v system yet. Looking forward to your video on those!
@@ladiandmargaret The new systems to heat floors in houses is glycol. I believe that’s what the Vanlife tech system uses to heat the floors. You still have problems with hoses and the possibility of putting a screw or nail through a hose and having it leak. You shouldn’t use water because it freezes which is why you use food grade glycol.
Realmente, el señor que está reestructurando, la caravana, es alguien que se dedica habitualmente a ello, está haciendo de su profesión un hobby, porque tiene un local suficientemente grande, unas herramientas de todas las maneras y para cualquier trabajo, es una persona muy integrada en la arquitectura, en el dominio de dibujo en 3D, Dibujo, en general, mecánica electricidad y robótica, no cualquier persona, monta paneles solares orientables y plegables, ni puede poner los tanques, y la tubería plomeria, de agua y electricidad, de modo que no se deteriore fácilmente, de modo, que el interior de la caravana, queda totalmente aislada de frío y calor, con fibra de vidrio y paneles refractarios, este señor, tiene mucha experiencia en todas las cosas en las que toca De un modo u otro tiene una habilidad propia de una persona muy experimentada en todos los temas que tienen que ver en el montaje, comodidad y confortabilidad, sabe muy bien lo que hace es un gran profesional. Y sabe en todo momento como y de que Forma actuar, con la seguridad De un profesional. FELICIDADES.👍🏼
What I‘ve learned is floor heating is important. You don’t want to stand at the cold floor. I‘ve only heating at the kitchen and in front of the bed. It make the life much easier when you have in the morning a warm floor. Also for the next van build I take a sandwich board for the floor. GFK foam GFK. Cut it like the original wooden floor and replace it. No small parts to worry. Very strong too. Insulation I have only 19mm Armaflex and nothing in the structure of the car. And it works fine up to -10 degrees celsius. Then my 2kw diesel heater is to weak for 23 degrees inside. All holes covered with Aluminum Tape. No vapor barrier. I learned from the caravan, Outside Aluminum, then Stryopor, and wood. You have the let air circulation in because the moisture can’t get out. One time at the day open all doors and let air for 5minutes in and never get a moisture problem.
I really don't see spray foam as that much of a risk at all. I had a guy who regularly spays the inside of shipping containers and canal boats do mine. It was relatively inexpensive, quick, clean and fantastically effective. If I was doing it again I'd elaborately mask the side and rear doors so he could do those in their entirety. Spraying interior grade, closed cell foam ticks a lot of boxes in one operation: sound and thermal insulation, vapour barrier and it makes the panels really rigid. So much so that I did not bother to batten my van out (apart from on the floor) before having it sprayed. I got mine done before I cut the windows and sky light out so I have nice window shaped insulated panels that I can put back in against the glass for great window insulation. There's no downside that I can see.
I love a lot of your van build ideas. I'm holding off making a comment regarding insulation until I see how you implement your own insulation in your next video.
Happy (almost) 2022! We are so thankful to have you here with us and we're wishing you the best for the coming year! We've JUST finished the insulation today (as I publish this video) and we CANNOT WAIT to share it with you! What do YOU think of today's insulation convo? Would love your feedback :) Let's chat below, and don't forget to sub for more! Snuggles from Millie!! xoxo
Faithfully watching every video from the edge of Prague! You guys ROCK!
Will you ever do another series of Van Reviews?!
GRACIAS POR ASESORAR, PERO ES UN TRABAJO DE UN GRAN PROFESIONAL
NO TODO EL MUNDO ES APTO PARA LLEVARLO A CABO.
Did you talk about a vapour barrier? The kids are Bob the apple in next doors fish pond! will have to finish watching later!
Personally, I like to see the thought process of why you build the way you are. Then to see it come together in a plus. Thanks for sharing!
So happy to hear it! I hope these types of videos can expand upon what we think and talk about behind the scenes. Hope you have a wonderful NY!
@@ladiandmargaret why bother showing us the process with video, when you can talk about it :D
Tapped moisture, Vapor build up. Condensation...MOLD ... where is the video on "cold roof" method exterior insulation
THEN ventilated air flow gap
AND "perfect wall/100 year wall"/BSE 101 method for interior/home insulation ..
Are you familiar?
.@@ladiandmargaret
@@ladiandmargaret also, are you familiar with: Ants & Termites EATING *rigid foam board* ...not just mice, but ants, meal worms, termites etc WILL turn it into a fine powder!!!!!!!! There are *ant & termite resistant* foam boards but I am have not heard anyone specify how they do in the real world ... ??
What I feel should've been talked about is the condensation on metal when the temperatures inside and outside are different. For that reason stuff like Armaflex is great.
I personally don't understand why you'd like to put wires under the insulation though. Just more convenient to put them on top where they are more reachable when you want to modify/add/delete parts of the electricals.
wire routing takes up a surprising amount of space in such a small area, especially if you want it all to still be accessible. Chances are you will have built significant internals on top of the routing and will be loath to change it anyway as you will rip out lots of stuff. And with careful planning you are unlikely to actually change the wiring arrangement. It's actually less planning than you would put in to try to make the surface wiring still accessible but still discreet.
i have also used armaflex on parts of the van (internal side of interior ply panels on rear and side door, where rigid board is difficult to fit and spray foam will interfere with door mechanisms. it works very well, however, where there is a large temp gradient (~40C in alpine winter as insulation for the Maxxfan port) i find that it degasses a bit and shrinks by about 3% (1cm across a 35cm width). not sure whats happened in the door panels
Hi Margaret, your comment on security made me remember supplying a used vehicle to someone in a dangerous part of the world. He requested a "kill" switch installed on the vehicle that could be surreptitiously activated if they were held up at gunpoint! It had to have a delay incorporated of I think 30 minutes, long enough for the robbers to get away from them and then be impossible to re-start. They would then be far enough away to keep the owner safe from retribution. I never heard if it was ever activated, but he seemed happy with the installation. Many thanks for another interesting video.
I love that you are doing so much research on each component of your van build… then educating us. I appreciate knowing some techy stuff before watching that section of your van build being implemented.
in our build, we used Rock Wool and stuffed it everywhere, literally if there was a gap, we put some in there. Not packed it in, just put it in. We took the door panels off stuffed in in there and between the cabin topper and the frame. Then we put a vapor barrier over the walls of reflectix and reflectix tape. then put up the furring strips that gave us a good inch between the reflectix and the wood walls. For the floor and ceiling we used insulated foam boards and reflectix tape. We have spent the night in 18 degree weather by turning the van's heat on for about 10 minutes, and it kept the van warm all night.
And yeah, it took us A LONG time to get all that done too.
Very helpful (and in our case, reassuring) video. We used foam core for the floors, thinsulate for the walls/ceiling and were gifted some wool, so we used that to stuff the nooks and crannies. In conjunction with our Espar heater, we are very comfortable in the van when it's cold outside. .
Having watched a bazillion van videos I think this is a really useful way of assessing why and how to create the van situation I would actually be able to use most happily. I like what your doing it shows a greater base of knowledge than just fawning over a creation and not understanding why or how to make good choices. Keep doing this.
Which Espar Gwenn? Air or coolant
@@4Hester heat for the Espar (water and air). Our AC is a 12v Dometic.
I love these kinds of videos!! I am doing a vanbuild right now and I have a building science university degree. I want to add onto the vapour barrier debate. First of all, I get why you would want to add a vapour barrier, I know the importance of it in a house. However, there are a few fundamental differences between a house and a van: metal exterior and diy building. For a vapour barrier to work, every puncture of the barrier needs to be sealed again. If done perfectly the vapour barrier adds to the build big time, but if done imperfectly, it has the opposite affect. Where the screws go through (metal and therefore can get quite cold in some situations) condensation can happen, which due to the barrier cant escape. Mold will form around the screws there. Also how sure are you that the outside of the van is air tight (for years and years)? After buying an old van I am not too sure that this is the case for our van (even after doing so much work on it to try). If it is not air/water tight in a tiny spot, condensation will happen that has no way to quickly dry out and therefore mold will form. I know that this is a fairly new discussion for van life, but RVs are around for longer and they are made with vapour barriers. Older Rvs are now full of mold, that is why they always have a very distinctive smell. I decided on getting an water absorbing insulation that is good against mold (sheeps wool) and a construction without vapour barrier that has a lot of breathability (insulation, air gap, cladding which is what they would do in a house). Mold in a small tiny house is very unhealthy and toxic, I would not risk it!!
Also: consider what kind of particles insulation is emitting. Usually, normal house insulation is not fitted for tiny homes because it is harder to create the passive ventilation (in housing MANDATORY, when using non natural insulation and building materials) that keeps the air clean enough to breath safely. Thats why tiny houses are often insulated with wool as well!
Hi Marit, I'm an architect, who has some experience in detailing building envelopes. At least in Australia (I can't speak on other places) there is a strong move to using vapour PERMEABLE membranes, such as CSR Enviroseal Proctorwrap. The difference between this and traditional vapour barriers is that the permeable ones are designed to allow water vapour to transfer without air (and hence your thermal air barrier). This is important in preventing moisture trapping in the insulation zone and causing mould, but that moisture will transfer into the van. However, if there is an air gap and a vapour barrier, vapour will collect, and run down to the bottom, which is where Margaret rightly said to keep the channels with drip holes free. As for breathing /cooking /other things ;) you need to open the roof vents /windows and allow some air to come in and out.
Wool is a good insulation if it can breath, it absorbs moisture so it needs air movement to dry if it gets wet.
If you want to learn best practices you can learn a lot from the professionals that specialize in construction and insulating metal sided buildings.
So I am just barely holding on here in terms of having a verrry basic understanding of insulation but an allergy to mold. I heard a Canadian gent speak about Sheep’s wool in the context of eventually it will sift and not hold an even insulation. And the possibility of it molding. He suggested a few things the only one I can remember is a kind of ceramic insulation? You and May I ask you both what you think of cork as an insulator in a van?
Interesting 🧐 I am building my van as we speak I covered as much of my walls as I could with sound deadening now I am stuffing with wool wool wool:
According to Margaret on the video I stuffed too much wool in the bottom of the van where your weep holes are so I took all of my wool out and I struggled trying to find something to put in the bottom to hold the wool up off of the bottom to keep the wool from getting wet from the weep holes : which when taking my wool out I had found a small area where some water had already made its way in and got a very small area of my wool wet ::: the way my van is built There is no way to put the wool over top of my cavities that go down in there without the WOOL falling in so I am taking plastic fencing Rolling it in small rolls and strapping it to stay in this shape with zip ties everything will be plastic nothing should rust nothing should really rot that way I can still insulate a little bit down in there to help keep my floors a little warmer if interested I can send you a picture of how I did this with your education of vapor barrier I’m hoping this will work of --- worrying about moisture getting in and causing me mold problems is really a concern for me as I am 70 and going to be going on the road “ hopefully with my almost “100” year old MOTHER “
She wants her last adventure ;)
I’m working hard and fast to get this going this little setback caused me some time : however ; I am very glad I saw Margaret’s video :::::: Linda
ANYONE HAVE ANY POINTERS FOR ME IS ALWAYS WELCOME
--- I hope to be running a small dehumidifier and an air cleaner
No mold is a must for us 😷
So glad to see you addressing this issue. I'm a high school Physics teacher and the lack of proper insulation and dealing with thermal bridges in van conversions drives me crazy!
I think it's mostly because most VanLifers are from more temperate and warmer, drier, climates.
Yes but it's not that strict. If you have a heater in van it's going to be fine even with less proper work
Your right about the spray foam. It’s the best thing out there I used it. It will also warp your van. I warped mine. That being said if I did it again I would do the roof where insulation is most important and a little warping is no big deal. As far as the sides I feel like if you tape off all your cracks and don’t let the foam between your ribs and the skin of your van you’ll be ok. The one saving grace is you can break it out of the bad spots and the warping goes away. Long story short, one hour to foam the van and 3 days to scrape it from between the ribs to remove MOST of the warping. What the van industry needs is someone to spend a million dollars to test everything there is scientifically and come up with the answer. All anyone can do now is make an educated guess and pray.
Thank you for making these discussion and theory videos! I'm trying to plan a van build myself and I have a huge collection of van tours that have inspired my layout and features, but everything between the bones and the furniture is a big question mark! I really appreciate all the research you're sharing with us and the space you're offering for different views and experiences.
I only always hear insulation in the context of being warm, but insulation works two ways.
A well insulated house or vehicle can also be a lot cooler. Given that you also do the same as in the winter, keeping all the doors and windows closed when it's outside warmer then inside (ideally also darken windows).
When an AC is being used, this also means that the AC will work a lot more efficient.
In general rockwool is always a very decent go-to, not as good as foam boards but cheaper.
Just not really nice to work with (nasty, but NOT lethal) , not as bad as glass wool.
The more organic kinds are really nice on paper, on practice their R-values are kind of sad unfortunately (as much as I REALLY wish that wasn't the case)
Personally I always just go for hybrid approaches. There is no reason to go only for one type of material only.
Rockwool is actually pretty safe. Just wear a dust mask and you're good to go. My plan for my insulation (I'm very close to that phase in my build) is a combination of as much as I can install foam panels with some sprayed foam to seal, rockwool in the wall conducts and other tight spots or... near door mechanism. And a layer of reflectix covered air bubble plastic wrap. Should be good enough...
The bottoms of the walls bothers me to be honest. I really don't want moisture accumulation there, but I don't want cold coming from there either... Maybe the bubble wrap reflectix will be enough there 🤔😅
How do you recommend insulating for warm weather (within the structure of the van)?
@@laurelanderson-rostami109 basically the same way. Just make sure it stays cool inside instead of getting warm. For example an AC also works much more efficient with better insulation.
I feel like if you're steadily doing van life below freezing... that an absolutely perfectly sealed vapor barrier is so important. If frost manages to form on sheet metal behind your walls, you're in for bad times. Literally had my rear doors freeze shut because melting frost formed a barrier 😅 good video 👍
This style of video is similar to your reviews of other van lifer builds. Between your explanations and Ladi's design and build skills, this is bar none the best van build resource out there. It's exactly why I subscribed. More, por favor!
Really enjoyed this format. Its something I really loved about your van design reviews, the intelligent discussion around decisions. As a designer and builder myself I find the information really helpful and interesting. The build is looking so good! Big love to you three and the rest of your community near and far.
Thusfar, Ladi has been implimenting all of the ideas I've had in my head for my next van. I REALLY want to know how he plans on designing the convertible shower. Is it a dual shell design, is it using a flexible barrier, does the counter top rise with it, if so, how is he levering it to conform with the van wall, how is the door being designed, is the toilet built in, on a drawer slide, or removable, how is the ducting for the exhaust being routed..
SO many questions.
Can't wait to see an indepth video on that one!
To add, very few youtubers in our community provide the kind of value add that your channel does. I don't follow many but you both provide such good content, with such great editing and showcasing your amazing personalities that I find myself eagerly waiting for the next video to drop.
One area I think your channel could expand to provide more relevant information to the community: Electronics. I dont know how comfortable you both are talking about it, but there are some fantastic resources online that could serve as the basis for an entire series on DIY electrical engineering for the Van community.
I'm thinking synchronous buck converter MPPT designs, arduino (WeMos boards for automating via Blynk apps), how to program a rasberry pi to control solenoid valves (I see Ladi is likewise looking to impliment a grey water dump cam, great minds!).
An example could be adding auto leveling to your beds actuator system, assuming they're rated for the weight, something I've got on my wish list for my next build.
Just an idea, there are so many ways that building a van can serve as a platform for educating people to be more self suficient. Your channel is and will continue to help push the community towards ever greater feats. Thank you.
PUEDE SER MUY EDIFICANTE APRENDER, PERO SE NECESITAN HERRAMIENTAS QUE HABITUALMENTE EN UNA CASA NORMAL NO LAS HAY COMO UN CORTADOR Y PULIDOR DE MADERA O UN CORTADOR O DOBLADOR DE TUBOS, O UN CORTADOR DE HIERRO. HAY UNOS UTILES QUE SE UTILIZAN QUE HABITUALMENTE NO ESTAN EN LAS CASAS, COMO COSA NORMAL, ZEL DIA A DIA, NI MUCHA GENTE TIENE UN ALMACEN, PARA TENER TANTAS Y TAN GRANDES HERRAMIENTAS DE PRECISIÓN.
I love these pre videos with the theory, I think for anyone genuinely interested in building a van, this is the most helpful type of video!
that is so cool to hear! UA-cam has become so overwhelming with build videos that I even find myself getting lost in information. You've got me excited to do more of these!
@@ladiandmargaret Please do!
A lot of what I like about your channel is the construction work you put into your ideas... and why you decide on those ideas in the first place. This would be particularly important when discussing insulation, as all builds need some form of insulation in the build.
IMHO, and only an "O"... it would be good to discuss (1) benefits and issues with each type of insulation, (2) the installation process, and (3) mistakes made when installing. For instance, wool can be a good insulator, but only if not compressed, which I have unfortunately seen a lot of UA-cam van builders do. The thinking is, if a little does well for insulation, the more they can get into that space, the better the insulation. The problem of course is, by compressing the wool, you no longer can trap air, which is why wool is such a good insulator in the first place, so the "R" value gets lower and lower with the more you stuff into those little spaces.
And then there is the problem with R-Value in the first place. This is tested in a lab, without the issues of compression found in a van. Then there are EER ratings for the A/C unit, the shape of the interior of the van with its corresponding air flow, the extremes of weather, and so on. All of these things affect insulating properties, and all seem to be left out of most videos and discussions on the subject.
FYI, the van we are getting uses aircraft insulation (ua-cam.com/video/wanZmR82nWg/v-deo.html&ab_channel=RoadsofLife), and in real world situations, this insulation has been shown to be extremely efficient. Is it the best? No such thing, but it is something to consider. Be seeing you.
Your absolutely right about insulating the doors as long as you don’t interfere with locking Mechanism. I like use rigid foam for large areas and spray foam for those differcut small areas. These small areas won’t cause problem in panel distortion. Having insulated curtain behind cab seats helps tremendously.
I agree 100% with everything you said (use of reflectix as "insulation" and insulating below the floor level and blocking the drains being the ones I see more often) but I disagree with one thing you already did on your van (not sure if the shots were from your previous van or this one).
You saw how strong Kingspan is, you said it yourself. So why use battens on the floor then? You can lay the plywood directly over the Kingspan sheets and it will be perfectly fine. That way you will also minimize thermal brakes (even if it's just the floor, which is not really that important unless of course, you do heated floors). If you really need the battens to bolt your furniture on (not really necessary) then just put battens where your furniture will go.
I havent seen anyone suggest this yet. Very interesting idea. I'd love to hear more peoples thoughts on it
@@PresidentBust I put an insulated floor in an old barn which I converted to an office/edit suite and I laid 75mm Celotex/Kingspan straight onto the concrete and then boarded over the top with flooring grade chipboard. I experienced zero issues in the 10 years I was there, so I'd go along with Spiro.
@@PresidentBust ua-cam.com/video/B7ywHNQz7fI/v-deo.html
I think it’s something different in a van. Furniture should be attached properly to the floor, it should not be just floating on insulation.
@@ladiandmargaret Yeah, but as Spiro pointed out, you can put battens where your furniture needs to be fixed down, but you don't need to make a framework with battens where nothing will fix to them.
I LOVE that you use science and technology and explain what you are doing. Your critiques are the very best videos you put out there. It really bothers me that there are so many other content producers who are firmly stating "this is The Way" when they are twenty somethings, building their first van, and just repeating something (ill advised) they picked up on the internet. Love seeing clips to learn from. We are not doing the vapor barrier. Thinsulate for sides and cavities, pink board for the floor, and white board for the ceilings. Just getting it up there was SO much effort. Not going to kid myself that we could successfully do a vapor barrier. Still deciding if we are going to apply automotive carpet for a thermal bridge or just love the cold metal cause we can attach magnets!.
Amazing build, attention to detail and functionality. I thought I was the only one who did this when building something. It’s the little things that make the difference. It can get frustrating at times. But we love the struggle. Keep it up!!!
Hey! I used spray foam out of the cans and insulated myself. It expands in the easiest direction so it never pushed hard against my van panels at all.
The problem I had was it doesn't stick to the metal panels of the van. I had to put up in my walls and spray foam behind it using a 5mm hole which filled the cavity. Never seen anyone do this. It has worked without issue. We will see how good it is once my build is finished 👍🏻
You mean those expandable spray foams they sell at home depot to fill cracks and nooks in your house?
Insulation is a rather tricky when it comes to van build - we spent ages researching insulating methods before attempting ours, and even now, there are things we could defiantly improve upon. The long and the short of it is, the van is a metal can, that is not really designed to be insulated for human habitation, but we all do what we can. Honestly, next time, we would love to try spray foam insulation, and see how it compares. 😊
it works and is all done in 4 hrs!
Don't use spray foam! It is not the right thing to use. If you ever need to access wiring after doing that forget it. It's a terrible choice for houses - don't do it to your van!
Nice overview. Careful about falling into the habit that so many woman do, of questioning their own knowledge and expertise while they are presenting a topic. You do the detailed work researching and learning from your vast experience. So be confident and just communicate the limitations of the info you are sharing. Keep up the great work.
We absolutely love your videos, Margaret! Keep it up :) We are building our own van in Brazil, so we definitely don't have some materials available like you have in Europe, US, or AUS, but we are making the best of it, thanks to your PRECIOUS tips and detailed information. It's our first van build and here in Brazil the van culture is not as much popular as it is in the Nothern hemisphere so we've been doing A LOT of research. We actually consider ourselves super innovative, as we are not just copying what everyone is doing, but studying and getting to our own results... pretty much like you guys :) Thank you so much for being such an inspiration for us, for being real and very straightforward (de-romaticizing a bunch of stuff we see about vanlife on social media...!).
Thermal barriers are tied up with dew point and interstitial condensation. Warm air will hold a percentage of water, cold air holds less. As the warm air cools there is a point where it has to give up the trapped water. Hence where water filled warm air comes in contact with cold glass, or metal, condensation forms as the air cools.
This caused a big issue when people filled their house cavities with insulation as, where previously, the point of condensation was within the cavity, the moisture would drain away, insulating could mean the moisture would form within the insulation soaking it and reducing the level of insulation rather than increasing it.
Your point in maintaining clear bottom cavities is well made as the outer skin of the vehicle is likely to get wet on the inside and that water has to go somewhere.
Vapour barrier - you don't really want your water filled hot air to escape to somewhere it can cool and condense. If it can escape and come in contact with cold metal it will make the surface of that metal wet. If you trap that water filled warm air this is good, assuming it doesn't cool because then it still has to give up that water.
In summary - it's complicated. You don't want air to cool behind or within something that can absorb moisture because it will become wet/damp.
Your point that clothes in cupboards are insulation is reasonable except, if the inside face of your sweater is 20ºC, and the outside face is 0ºC, any moisture in the air will be given up between those two points ie, in the middle of your sweater. This is interstitial condensation.
I will add that clothes in the cupboard will only act as insulation if the cupboards are full and the clothes tight together. Lose clothes here and there in a half full cupboard will insulate nothing.
Great talk on insulating properly. My one concern is the statement that having more insulation when you are in a hotter environment just traps the heat in. While true, it does not address how to keep cool in warmer environments without massive us of A/C. Clearly some insulation is vital or an A/C system could never keep up. I have yet to see anyone talk about venting a van later in the day when temps cool a bit to pull the heat out. The energy is trapped in the thermal mass of the interior, and I haven't seen a single design that has systems to deal with this. I saw Greg Virgoe's thumbs up, which is good to see. His talk is based in the science of construction and building envelops. Your solar panel lift is a fantastic design. I used similar lifts to open a "door" in the floor of my house to get to the basement. My first set of lifts lasted five years. Congrats on having the biggest power supply I've seen on any build of a class B. You guys win!
The closed cell spray foam is great for something like building a diy truck bed camper. The spray foam when done correctly will add not only insulation but also add a lot of strength/rigidity. So you can use lighter thinner strips of wood for the frame & thinner walls. It also keeps the wood from rotting if it's completely enclosed.
Well, it's not a matter of agree/disagree but I used 1/2 polyiso board (that hard stuff) and it will bend and slightly fracture to accommodate a curve, primarily the roof. What I did first was EZ-Cool (reflectics-like) everywhere first that could apply a sheet to via 3M-90 as I did not want the bare metal exposed to the climate inside and potential gathering of moisture and subsequent rust, mold, smell. 3 years no problem. Used R-13 in areas could not do this routine but EZ over these areas too as a vapor barrier. In a small 130wb MR Transit so at 5'11" you use the 6' clearance up easy. 1/2" poly on floor with a 1/4" wood sheeting and indoor/outdoor carpet glued on. Yes, it gets cold IF you let the cab area cold air in so a floor to ceiling curtain a must. And yes, gotta do both the rear doors (but have a 1" wall in-between me and it) and the slider lower portion. Gotta say though, the EZ directly on the metal must have some benefit as it is not cold to the touch as bare metal is so transfer of cold must be being reduced to some benefit; these were areas I could not access for insulation (B pillar, C pillar) when I was doing the job. 18 out last night and low of 63 inside with my heater on low/ 9000 btu (Dickinson P-9000) fan on high. High fan would yield 70 no doubt but very comfy overall.
Girl, you did a great job explaining everything and you did not rumble. You explained everything thoroughly 😊
One more comment please:: confusing?? NO WAY!! Your videos are the BEST!! And now even with an Intermission!! Just fantastic!!
Stay safe, God Bless!!
Wow, thank you, Bob! Intermission is my favorite time :) both to film and to edit lol
I thoroughly enjoy the theory, breakdown videos. This allows me to be practical and critically thing through every aspect of the build. Especially for someone with no building experience.
Seeing a new video put up gives me joy. I look forward to your videos. I appreciate the information and even though I’m allergic to cats Millie is cute.
Specifically for windows you can use a product like 3M crystalline to reduce the heat intake of your windows. That’s the only product I have experience with, I’m sure there are other products. First in a friends and my classic cars. I use 80% and because it’s pretty much clear I can also use it on the windshield. I cannot feel any heat transfer when in direct sunlight on my windows now. It makes a big difference. One of my best friends family used it to do their over 100 year old house with single pane windows. It halved their AC bill and changed how the house feels. I texted him to see if it made any difference in the winter with cold and have yet to get back an answer.
One of the problems we have with classic cars is rust when the drain holes get blocked. It might be a good idea to make sure all the drain holes are clear.
In cooking I found that propane contains a lot of moisture. I would think avoiding propane for products that use a dry heat would help reduce moisture in the van.
What are your thoughts about using a humidifier in the van to reduce moisture?
these videos deserve more views for the amount of work that goes behind.
First....Happy New Year! Second....I found this video and info VERY helpful. I'll be starting my (short) bus conversion in the spring and am gathering as much info and advice as I can.....and one important focus is insulation (which I haven't actually seen featured as a main topic on bus/skoolie/ambo tours). I currently live in Ontario, Canada, and once my conversion is completed I'll be "chasing 70" as they say, so I'm not concerned about freezing cold or boiling hot temps, but I will have pets in my tiny-home-on-wheels (I have one dog and one cat now but will be getting another---larger/for protection--dog once I'm on the road) so for them I want the rig to be at a consistent (or close to consistent temp). I also will be doing this conversion on a limited budget....so my question....do you think it's wise to do, the foam board in the floors and walls and then wool for the back door and ceiling? Also, I watched a great short bus tour last night and he made a great point.....many people block off the front of their van/bus/shuttle/ambulance from the "main house part" by putting that barrier BEHIND the driver's seat, but that's a bad idea when it comes to safety as you want to be able to access your driver's seat as quickly as possible in case of attempted-break-in or other danger near your rig....so he recommended (and he's lived on the road for many years) to put that barrier (black out curtain for instance) in FRONT of the driver's seat. So sorry for the long comment. P.S. I really miss the videos you used to make, where you talked about the good and not-so-good aspects of various vanbuilds :-)
i think you do a very good job of explaining the theories or just explanations in general. especially for someone who knows NOTHING about this! so here's your confirmation lol i love this channel! THANK YOU SO MUCH....for helping me avoid future problems and/or regrets!
I'm working on a box truck build and have found your videos to be so helpful. My partner and I have been debating about which insulation to use; stiff foam board or spray foam. This video really cinched it for me. Since, we have nothing but straight flat sides, foam board is now the plan. Thanks!
I like the idea of the window covers not just having reflectix inside by itself, but also some padding to create an air space. Previously I had abandoned the idea of reflectix window covers.
I insulated my van with mylar and dacron, just like the space station, cheap and very effective. For my windows I used triple weave thermal block out fabric.
Any loose fibre insulation, like fibreglass and wool, invites potential for moisture absorption which leads to mold and rust.
Next week i will be installing close cell foam, your videos was of open cell which is used more in house builds and expands more, close cell will only expand about 25mm. Close cell has a mass R value of 6.5 plus it also offers vapour and sound deadening. I am doing walls doors and celling in a vario bus and predict it will take one day. I do run a spray foam company so have a full set up rig, am hoping on good thing from it
We're just thinking about this right now. And your points are very important to us. It DOES make sense to do these different types of videos
We went with Havelock Wool. Still building it out but we DID stuff the wool down in all the small nooks in the doors that I’m sure many people overlook. Planning to use the wool as the only insulation along with reflectics on top
Regarding installing foam board on a curved wall, a truck is that you can measure the shape of the wall with a contour tool (sections of straight edges held together by hinges) and score the backside of the piece you intend to install at the same locations as the hinges on the contour tool. The foam board will then fit curved walls very well
I’ve been watching can builds for years now so I was tracking with what you’re saying. It was helpful to hear your take and why you did it. Love your van build videos and how you’re having fun with it
I agree with your points.
What I did in my Unimog shelter is just make a styrofoam box inside of it with a air gap between the metal box and insulation. I didn't do the floor because I don't have standing height. I will install a 2KW diesel heater. And I will make sure I have fresh air flow.
I really don't get people filling every tiny hole. I didn't fill anything it is just a complete box with straight walls. When sleeping in it without a heater I already notice the insulation working.
The reason for the 4cm styrofoam was that it was free 🤩
I own a converted cargo van, it has panel windows behind driver and on the slide door, 10x33 widows on either side of the raised fixed bed and two roof fans. Here's my thought on insulation:
Insulate? Sure but I think the whole thing is over thought and overblown. Millie's got it right (wool), and don't go crazy - KISS. Not only is a van a tin can with windows, unlike a house or apartment, it moves! The climate can literally change in a matter of hours and then again, and again .....
Spend the time and money elsewhere. Here's what I did to compliment and assist the Havelock Wool I have in the walls and ceiling, and foam board in the floor: Rixen's heat & hot water system, Cruise N Comfort 24v AC and a power system that can handle it, limo-tinted the windows and, had all the windows coated with IR heat reflecting ceramic film - even the windshield. My van will be just as comfy in Phoenix as it will be in Calgary.
I hope :-)
Along with foam board, we used mineral (rock) wool, which I don’t think you mentioned. It doesn’t absorb moisture, is less expensive, and is easily available at Home Depot or Lowes. Followed by a vapor barrier of reflectix. Sheep wool must be purchased online and it’s difficult to know exactly how much to order. It was nice to be able to just go buy more mineral wool when we needed it. Plus when we were building, Havlock wool (sheep) was on back order. (We chose our materials because of the Greg Virgo videos.). Anyway, our van stays comfortably warm now.
We did leave an edge of exposed metal around our windows so to be able to attach the window covers with magnets. I used reflectix in the window covers, with batting, covered with ripstop. They work very well. And because we insulated the cab, we haven’t needed a curtain which is nice because we use our swivel seats.
Sorry this is a long comment.
I enjoy your videos.
Rockwool is notorious
for absorbing moisture...
@@spiroszaharakis2648Poulin Building Materials says this about Rockwool when comparing three different materials for insulation... "It’s hydrophobic, so it won’t absorb water or encourage the growth of mold and mildew. Mineral wool is also very fire resistant and can act as a fire stop."
Rockwool's technical paper clearly states that it's not to be used in high humidity environments. You can't compare a house with several cubic meters of displacement with a tiny van that gets huge amounts of condensation every day when people live in it. Hydrophobic doesn't mean waterproof. It will withstand the moisture levels of a typical house and that's about it. As for the fire resistance properties, with all the other flamable materials inside a van, if your van catches fire, insulation fire properties will be your last concern. You will be dead well before the fire reaches the insulation. @BenjaminHansen
@@spiroszaharakis2648 thanks for the info from the tech sheet.
Absolutely great video. I am from northern Canada and I KNOW cold and having extensive renovation experience I also know insulation. With that said, I can tell you have done your research and agree with you 90%. Not a fan of the wood sleepers on the floor, but everything else is on point. I chose rockwool instead of sheeps wool for cost and the fact that rodents love sheep and hate rock. all in all great, informative video
I agree that windows are the biggest battle with insulation, we didn't want too many window but wanted some more daylight, we have a good balance. The heat and cold come through he window soooo quickly.
Thank you for the video. Very helpful.
Something to point out. Insulation works both ways. So a well insulated space will be cool in the summer and warm in the winter.
I love the thought process! I don't think I will live in a van but have thought of it as a camper before to go visit family. But even if I don't it's nice to hear the thought process and the logic of why you used or did what so that what ever happens in my life I can use that to help me.
I’m late to watch this time, but I love Margaret’s info videos. Even if I don’t understand them in the exact moment, they are always fun to come back to after watching Ladi work is magic.
You guys have one of the most informative build series I’ve seen.
Good video covering the basics. So many build videos out there without proper planning. Always love to see some good technical information. Ramble away!!!
Much appreciated, thanks guys! We love chatting about it, but always worried it's a bit too niche or boring, so glad to hear it's not!
I love the theory aspect. I like the rationale behind decisions to think about. I like lists of options and why one is better than another. We are refurbishing a 1988 Econoline conversion and love the ideas and the reality of the time it takes to do stuff. Thanks!
Thanks very much for this video. It's actually not rambling at all; lots of important learnings to take away, so kudos for a great job. So much useful and honest info, like the section on the spray foam, and much more. Thanks.
Hi there, good vid, I have spent several winters in an uninsulated VW Cali and now have Ducato factory insulated camper. Not a huge difference in heating bills as small space. Of course as you know without ventilation you are just moving moisture around and it will inevitably form on windscreen or on cold bridges so most important thing is to avoid (almost impossible) trapped moisture and generally maintain an airflow via window, roof vents or whatever. Allow van to air regularly during day and check backs of cupboards for damp and dry where possible. We didn't find any big issues in the Cali as we popped roof as much as possible as well. In airtight and well insulated houses MVHR systems are installed but cost and space likely outweigh benefits in a van (you could design for a niche market? ;)
Love it, I learn so much. It’s my retiering plan to live in a van. Love, love love you’re build!
A fantastic new year to you all❣️
Thank you very much for taking the time and give an overview of some overlooked mistakes, and how to proceed. Seems like wiring diagram and plan for energy needs should start early.
Thanks for the video. I'm in the middle of insulating our van with polyiso boards. A slow process, a lot of dust from cutting the boards, but insulation is a must here in Brazil. As the British might say: It's rather warm down here.
Margaret, THANK YOU for your thorough consideration of insulation. YES, important because it will determine, in large part, how comfortable you are in the van in the long run. However, when you mention sheep’s wool that has fiberglass woven into it (14:21), you say, “That’s (rats) not really a problem in a van.” While this may be true about the rats, having fiberglass near the living space and not having the fiberglass completely sealed off from the air we’ll breathe when we’re inside the van is UNSAFE. There is a reason that folks who work with fiberglass have to wear respirator masks. Protect your lungs from fiberglass particles AT ALL TIMES. Don’t use it in your van living space. Thank you. P.s: I LOVE YOUR CONTENT.
And fiberglass loses essentially all of its R value when it is compressed..It is a poor insulation choice in almost everysetting.
This was so perfect, I’ve watched hundreds of builds and it took this video for me to fully understand it
I think you did an excellent job summarizing the state of the art.
I, too, love the background, context, and education provided by your talk videos. Combined with technical how-to videos showing your choices, and the comments, they make for a great resource. Thank you so much for sharing all of it with us. 👍👍👍
And because it's my job (lol,) that was a particularly delightful intermission with Millie, and I want more! 😉
Happy New Year! ❄🎉❄
I have a 2019 sprinter high roof. I am tall enough that in my build I want to preserve standing headroom, which limits the floor and the roof insulation. I have lived with it for 18 months to decide what to do. My plan is to use 3 layers of 1/2” (13mm) between the existing van framing. The thinner size does bend enough to make this work. The panels will attach to the van ceiling with the stick on “nails” that Greg virgoe recommended.
Reflectix has a small R Value because it creates an air gap with its bubbles.
3M Headliner Adhesive is superior to 3M Super 77 or contact cement for body panels that get hot in the sun, according to a prominent van builder.
Spray foam RISKS detaching from body panels over time as the chassis flexes, and can result in endless annoying squeaks that can be a nightmare to find and solve.
Spray foam also makes body shop repairs a nightmare if a small collision needs welding, dent repair, etc.
I absolutely LOVE these explanation, design decision, Margaret rambling videos! It's what makes your channel special (aside from of course super adorable Millie who I can't get enough of and never mad mad-scientist Ladi). I love that you don't just show us what & how you are doing your build, but you explain WHY in such great detail. Happy New Year to you all!
Did u both have a lovely Christmas? Great to see u guys ……Margaret u do great informative vlogs! Happy New Year 2022 let’s all make it better! 🥳🥂😀
Hi Pamela! Honestly it wasn’t exactly relaxing, but we’re making up for it this New Years! Wishing you the best 2022!
@@ladiandmargaret 😍🥳🍻🍻
There is one product I don't see used often in van builds, but has been gaining popularity in home construction. That is a spray cork application. The cork provides a thermal break on surfaces it's applied to. I think it might be an interesting method to look at perhaps in a future build. That's not to say it alone will be enough, but I think it might be a good product on the sheet metal first then Havelock or thinsulate etc on top.
I used Sunflex like vapor barrier, because it is combination of vapor barrier, reflective and insulation. Main insulatuion is K-flex (XPS for floor) and it works great.
New to your channel from Tennessee. I like the way you described why before you actually doing it. You are a good communicator.
The insulation debate online is surprisingly full on! After long deliberation we went with 100 percent sheep wool insulation, including floor, ceiling, doors and barrier to the cab, for good R-value, moisture control and environmental friendliness. We decided not to install a vaper barrier due to the theoretical worries moisture can get trapped behind it if there is a hole anywhere. So far it has been holding up well, we don't have a proper heater (but do have some radiant floor heating) and we are reasonably comfortable until about -1 celcius. One tip for anyone: we love love love our 100% cork floor (wisecork), as it stops the floor from feeling cold, another great insulation addition.
I highly recommend XPS over ISO. ISO loses r value over time and as the temp drops. There are some good papers out there that tested this.
wow I didn't know that! Thanks Joe! I didn't realize time was even tested for
I use XPS for floor and K-flex for rest plus Sunflex for vapor barrier and its work great
Can we talk vapor barriers for a moment? Vapor barriers can be great, but you shouldn't install a vapor barrier (on a van, or a house) without a clear understanding of what you're trying to accomplish. As Margaret says, living inside of a van will tend to raise the humidity of the interior air, and you almost always want to enable that moisture to dissipate to the lower humidity outside. You may also occasionally be somewhere where the outside humidity is very high, either persistently (i.e. high humidity summer locales) or temporarily (i.e. a rainy week).
A common strategy to have a vapor impermeable envelope, which will prevent exterior high humidity from migrating inside, and use fans for when you want to vent humidity outside. As Margaret mentioned: there can be a lot of holes in a factory van, and so while sheet metal is vapor impermeable, you might want to add a vapor barrier to "cover" the vapor holes in the van. But if you're going to add an interior vapor barrier, be sure to not create a sandwich of two vapor barriers (the sheet metal and the installed barrier) with a gap between. This can easily result in compartments that don't readily shed humidity to either the exterior or the interior of the van. And what do you get with persistent high humidity in a closed compartment? Mold and other nasty things are a common outcome.
Because of all that, I think there are two reasonable options with a van:
1) Don't add an extra vapor barrier. Rely on just the metal skin, and make sure that all the insulating material you install inside is vapor permeable. A well insulated van with vapor permeable insulation will only let moisture move slowly, so you won't rapidly get the outside humidity in the van, but it'll let all the nooks and crannies of the van dry out.
2) Install a vapor barrier as the very first thing you do, and adhere it with (ideally) no gap between the sheet metal shell of the van and the added barrier, so as to not have pockets that have barrier on both sides, and cannot dry to either the outside or inside of the van.
Personally, I much prefer option #1.
Note that installing two different vapor barriers is a classic mistake that people make building houses, and can have long term health consequences when mold grows in the walls. Note that it's very difficult to install a perfect vapor barrier. And even if it's perfect when you first put it in, you inevitably have penetrations later in the build, and wear and tear on the road, and it's unlikely to stay a perfect vapor barrier for very long.
Edit/Update: I realized I didn't talk about one concern some people will be trying to address: condensation. If humid air hits the outer metal skin of the van on a cold day, the air will be cooled beneath the dew point, and condensation will form. If the layers of your van from the outside in are metal skin, insulation, and then vapor barrier, then in theory the vapor barrier keeps the interior humid air out of the insulation cavity. Even if the van is allowed to cool, the condensation will form on an interior surface that's more likely to dry quickly. But if tackling this design, it's a good idea to recognize that a perfect vapor barrier is hard to create and maintain as you're building out your van. It's very likely that high humidity air in the van will seep through flaws in the vapor barrier, into the insulated cavity, and then condense on the inside of the metal skin. Condensation sandwiched between two vapor barriers can take a really long time to dry out, and cause serious problems. So how to address this concern? One way to try and insure that the insulation is vapor permeable, and deliberately provide a route to the outside of the van, so that drying can occur. This takes very careful thought with a van build, since you have to insure that there's a vapor path past the sheet metal skin of the van. Typically this would have to be down through the undercarriage. A second approach is to install insulation that won't let humid air contact the metal skin, even if it leaks through the interior vapor barrier. This approach requires comprehensively attaching the insulation to the metal skin so that there are no air pockets, and using a closed cell insulation. With all the nooks and crannies in a van, in my opinion spray foam is the only viable solution for this approach.
Hi here in the UK, we have a wool type insulation made out of recycled plastic. It's great to use and great for the environment 👍
Good advice Margaret - just one error - hot air rises ,not heat , heat loss occurs in all directions.
Such an important correction thank you!
To further clarify this: yes, heat can travel in all directions but only through the mechanisms of convection, conduction and radiation.
Convection is (in a van) hot air rising, as described which is largely what the ceiling insulation tries to prevent going any further.
Conduction occurs when things touch each other and the heat transfers from the hotter to the colder (eg hence the thermal bridge of the metal described in the video, with heat from inside the van transferring to outside via any exposed metal).
That leaves radiation (light; ultra violet through to infra red) which is what Reflectix tries to “bounce back”. You need an air gap on the reflective side because without one, heat would simply conduct between the touching materials into the Reflectix material itself and then into the side of the van.
Well done and very informative.
I’m in the process of insulating my van and have used my past experiences with insulation in doing so. You’re right: there’s a lot of mystery and mis Information on this subject.
BTW, My floor and ceiling are complete: R10 in the ceiling, R5 on the floor, both using expanded polystyrene. Slowly working on the walls and doors...
Loving the mix of technical build videos and theory discussions 🥰❤️
I like theses videos, very informative and the fact that you share your understanding along with the implements in your own van build make it perfect. Keep going please :) Thanks
Really pleased to see that you guys are advocating the use of a vapour barrier considering the title of the video.
So it's a huge thumbs up from me for doing the right thing 👍👍 Oh and I am subbed too :D
Yayay GREG!!! Fav Vanlife channel of all time! Been loving your Italian content these days and have always learned so much from you. If anyone who is reading this comment isnt subbed to Greg’s channel GO DO IT RIGHT NOW ua-cam.com/users/GregVirgoe
@@ladiandmargaret thank you guys. I’ve been an avid follower of yours and you put out great videos 👍🏼😃
The way and the order you do it is perfect. Interesting and funny. Keep them coming and thank you for sharing! 😊
Thank you! Will do!
I agree with this because sometimes I just want information and I don't want to see other people's mistakes or bloopers. In fact, I feel that there should be a certain amount of editing done before one post. Especially if one is going to tear it out in the next frame. I really appreciate this video. Van life is still a dream for me but it's a dream with structure. I was worried about the sheep and the and the fiber glass because people were worried about chemicals. But I think personally I would lean toward the fiberglass spray because I really want to be able to go everywhere and anywhere. I'm off the sheep now because I think it's a lot and it's just me. I don't have an engineer husband LOL.
As a certified home inspector and sub contractor that has built, remodeled, and repaired moisture damage on many homes, I can assure you that you SHOULD NOT USE A VAPER BARRIER! Also, only use breathable insulation!
The sheet metal on the van is a vapor barrier. If you put one vapor barrier on top of another, then you are creating a place for moisture to be trapped and start molding/rotting materials. Only one side of an envelope should have a vapor barrier and that depends on the climate. Basically, you want the vapor barrier on the HEATED side of the envelope. So in Florida, you put the barrier on the outer sheathing. In Maine, you put it on the inside. Unfortunately with vans, we're stuck with it being on the outside. So when you run heat on the inside during winter, it's best practice to just make sure that your insulation can BREATHE and dry out. This mean, no extra vapor barrier, and no closed cell insulation! Closed cell still allows moisture over time, and I've seen and repaired a lot of rotted sheathing where closed cell spray foam was installed.
So your suggestion would be to put lamb's wool insulation behind some sort of wood paneling?
I hear where you’re coming from! What types of breathable insulation would you suggest?
I'm using a mix of thinsulate and havelock, I live in a cold climate, with heat rising my ceiling will get a thick layer of wool, the walls will get thinsulate with a few certain areas getting wool..
Totally agree, getting ready 2 do 1st Van, amazed at all loose/false information published. In USA we live in society that thinks more is more.
Great video! I didn't realize the wiring had to be done before the insulation. Great idea about the back door, too. I just got an empty 2020 Ford Transit 250 and have been wanting to start the insulation immediately. I thought if I had all the tools, I could bust it out in one day, but after watching this, it seems a lil overwhelming
I'm an architect. Here are some tips for insulating. When we insulate buildings, it's based on the climate zone. Obviously, van life is mobile, so that's a big challenge. I would use a middle ground climate zone for basis of design. Climate zone 5. In climate zone 5, walls would need an r-7.5 (coninuous), roof r-25, floor r-10. 1"of polyisocyanurate has an r value of 5. Thus, walls would get 1.5", roof would get 5", floor would get 2". This thermal envelope would give you the most optimum performance. Having said that, 5" at the roof may be unachievable due to the height restrictions in the van. I would at least do 2". Another thing that may help is installing a fluid weather barrier on the insulation boards between the boards and the interior face of the metal. When you insulate a van, you will create a dew point in this area. Water will condense there. This weather barrier will give the water a drainage plane to the vans weep system. This video does mention the drainage cavities. The weather barrier is different than a vapor barrier. I would not install a vapor barrier on the interior of the van. It will block natural permiation that is needed for the space to breathe.
Cover all cold bridges as much as you can. Insulate as much as you can, try to avoid non porous materials except anti mould/rust paint on metal surfaces Control moisture with a dehumidifier for when you're not in and heat recovery ventilation system when occupied when occupied. Moisture will always find its way to your exterior van walls where it will stay unless given a way to return. Ease its path with breathable materials.
Wool is a good insulation if it can breath, it absorbs moisture so it needs air movement to dry if it gets wet.
If you want to learn best practices you can learn a lot from the professionals that specialize in construction and insulating metal sided buildings.
Yes!!! It's a good idea! The security video was one of my favorites!
I'm glad to see that you answer comments - I don't really care to comment when there's no feedback.
I'd like to hear your views on various floor heat options.
BTW, love the Millie interludes! I hope to be able to get a cat in my van someday
Cats are the absolute best Vanlife creatures! But I’m biased haha. We’re working on ordering our floor heating mats now, but we have no interest in running any hoses with hot water under the floor to heat it up. We wanna have it a bit more simple
@@ladiandmargaret thanks! I looked into floor heating mats when I had a sticks&bricks, but not for the 12v system yet. Looking forward to your video on those!
@@ladiandmargaret
The new systems to heat floors in houses is glycol. I believe that’s what the Vanlife tech system uses to heat the floors. You still have problems with hoses and the possibility of putting a screw or nail through a hose and having it leak. You shouldn’t use water because it freezes which is why you use food grade glycol.
Realmente, el señor que está reestructurando, la caravana, es alguien que se dedica habitualmente a ello, está haciendo de su profesión un hobby, porque tiene un local suficientemente grande, unas herramientas de todas las maneras y para cualquier trabajo, es una persona muy integrada en la arquitectura, en el dominio de dibujo en 3D, Dibujo, en general,
mecánica electricidad y robótica, no cualquier persona, monta paneles solares orientables y plegables, ni puede poner los tanques, y la tubería plomeria, de agua y electricidad, de modo que no se deteriore fácilmente, de modo, que el interior de la caravana, queda totalmente aislada de frío y calor, con fibra de vidrio y paneles refractarios, este señor, tiene mucha experiencia en todas las cosas en las que toca
De un modo u otro tiene una habilidad propia de una persona muy experimentada en todos los temas que tienen que ver en el montaje, comodidad y confortabilidad, sabe muy bien lo que hace es un gran profesional. Y sabe en todo momento como y de que Forma actuar, con la seguridad De un profesional. FELICIDADES.👍🏼
What I‘ve learned is floor heating is important. You don’t want to stand at the cold floor. I‘ve only heating at the kitchen and in front of the bed.
It make the life much easier when you have in the morning a warm floor.
Also for the next van build I take a sandwich board for the floor. GFK foam GFK. Cut it like the original wooden floor and replace it. No small parts to worry.
Very strong too.
Insulation I have only 19mm Armaflex and nothing in the structure of the car. And it works fine up to -10 degrees celsius. Then my 2kw diesel heater is to weak for 23 degrees inside.
All holes covered with Aluminum Tape.
No vapor barrier. I learned from the caravan, Outside Aluminum, then Stryopor, and wood. You have the let air circulation in because the moisture can’t get out. One time at the day open all doors and let air for 5minutes in and never get a moisture problem.
I really don't see spray foam as that much of a risk at all. I had a guy who regularly spays the inside of shipping containers and canal boats do mine. It was relatively inexpensive, quick, clean and fantastically effective. If I was doing it again I'd elaborately mask the side and rear doors so he could do those in their entirety. Spraying interior grade, closed cell foam ticks a lot of boxes in one operation: sound and thermal insulation, vapour barrier and it makes the panels really rigid. So much so that I did not bother to batten my van out (apart from on the floor) before having it sprayed. I got mine done before I cut the windows and sky light out so I have nice window shaped insulated panels that I can put back in against the glass for great window insulation. There's no downside that I can see.
I like the format you are using. Watching the build separately from the theory part is great. Happy new year to you guys.
Awesome video! Love the theory type videos and critiques of other builds as much as I love watching Ladi being a mad scientist!
I love learning from you Margaret! "Back story" videos should be a thing!
Love this video and all theory discussion type videos; that's how we learn to build better!
I love a lot of your van build ideas. I'm holding off making a comment regarding insulation until I see how you implement your own insulation in your next video.
Very good information! I learned a lot! Thank you! ❣️
So happy to hear it, Karen! Have a happy new year!
Good video! And you explain the process very well and your personality keeps it fun to learn! Great idea!
Margaret, some may say long, I say informative, fact filled and captivating! Thx