Was I scammed? My Crown Vic was bodged in America, and is almost scrap
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2023
- When I bought my Ford P71 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor a year ago it looked good, too good to be true perhaps, as it had just been retired from the Police and looked solid on the inspection and MOT ramps, but something bad was lurking....
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When you first told me you’d bought a Crown Vic in north-eastern Ohio I chose to be polite. Mine was a lot worse to the point I had to scrap it. Even so, I truly feel sorry you’re dealing with this.
The used car lot you had this from only has a 3.7 star rating, and I don’t think they’re BBB accredited. My money’s on them doing this.
Yeah.... Ohio likes its salt.
I don't think he does any research. I mean I am from the UK and I even know make sure when buying a car from the states its from the Southern dry states not from the Northern states unseen.
@@doommonger7784 Absolutely. Never buy a rust belt car unless it is pre-inspected.
@@doommonger7784 it’s easy though to be caught up in the emotion, especially when it’s a car you’ve always wanted. In any case, this could have been much worse.
It does look like they are behind it, it all adds up that way
Matt, I'm so sorry. I could hardly bring myself to press the 'like' button. Whoever did that bodge is a complete 🤬. I really hope that you manage to get it sorted.
You are a far more resilient man than I am. I would have been on the floor crying had I discovered all of that
My condolences to you. Here in the American car collecting community, there are certain states that we try to avoid because of rust issues and the lack of inspection requirements in those states. Ohio, Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin are states you want to run away from when buying an old car. I know this advice doesn’t help now, but I hope you don’t give up on the old crown Vic!
I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that stance, as there are many well looked after cars here, but I’d never recommend buying sight unseen.
I've definitely seen california, arizona sort of cars and I can't believe how unrusty they are (compared to what I'm used to in Scotland). Then I see a 20 year old Michigan pickup truck and it looks like a strong wind would blow the frame away
I would include Minnesota to that list. Minnesota has no state vehicle inspections. Whereas Wisconsin does.
@@bobjohnson1587 Wisconsin is really pick and choose, I think it’s the counties furthest south around Milwaukee that have inspections. I’m up in northeast Wisconsin near Green Bay, and there are no inspections up here
I would agree 100%. I am in Michigan, work on cars from around the region. After about 6 years, stuff starts to get rusty. 10-12 years and the majority of stuff is just about junk.
What a nightmare! And astonishing that it wasn't detected at a former MOT when you legalized it in the UK... 😢😢😢
the quality of the bodge was good enough to be hidden until it rusted through in a different spot after a year here
@@furiousdriving You have to give credit for a quality bodge!😂
There should be consumer protection laws I think 🤔
Noticed rust on this when he was doing the wheel stud. Arches are going as well between the two skins. This must be structural rust if it failed the MOT on it.
Don't give up on it, if that's all the rust that really needs doing, it's not bad and being that it's just straight flat metal it should hopefully be easy to replace.
Please don't be disheartened though, i know that you will be for a while, i look forward to being able to see the car again hopefully.
That's just terrible! I feel for you! How could anybody do that! That has been mega bodged in the past! I would think the dealer who moved it on is the most likely suspect!
While theyre certainly a likely candidate, this may well have been done in a police garage to keep the car looking outwardly decent on a tight budget. There arent really any safety inspections and this isnt structural so its likely quite typical to have this sort of rot show up during service in the salt belt.
@@VeyronBD inner and outer sills are structural on an MOT test here in the UK. Same for seatbelt anchorage points and suspension mounting points and floors etc
@@VeyronBD That's why you yanks drive death traps shit boxes you don't have safety inspections
What a lot of you people from across the pond don't realize is that these panther platform cars are full frame (like a truck) so I'd still consider it structurally sound as long as the frame is still solid.
Heck, I've daily driven rustier vehicles.
That's absolutely shocking, Matt. I did notice a few areas when you were doing the handbrake cable. I would definitely consider getting the whole underside checked over too.
Man, I feel for you. I once had an Austin 1100 that looked absolutely mint until I wanted to tidy up the sills and found the sills were actually full of filler and brown holes. My reaction was somewhat less controlled than yours and I ended up selling it for spares.
MY sills were ok as it had had a new floorpan, but the wings.... these cars rusted out in just a few years, shame as otherwise in many ways they were excellent . Nice road manners and very good petrol consumption and a great ride.
On the upside Matt, no one can say your channel is boring. You really do mirror the ups and downs of your subscribers who struggle with the vagaries of owning and maintaining an old car and it's that authenticity that makes your ups and downs so watchable. Be assured that this setback will have people flocking to see what happens next and how you win through, or not, because either way that's life. Personally speaking yours is one of the best programmes on TV and I admire you for sticking to you original concept (unlike another channel I could mention)and not diverting on to other topics, like camping, when the going gets tough.
Although it is quite rusty, its not that bad really; it's just a pair of sills and a few closing panels. Like you say they're pretty much flat steel panels, even the wing bottoms. Get a sheet metal worker to fabricate some full length sils, then patch the inner parts to reinstate the bottom lip. Seam weld the new panel along the line under the door steps and plug weld along the bottom lip.
Oh Matt that must be absolutely heartbreaking. That’s some serious rot 😭😭😭
In this part of the world, all too common.
You appear to have been done up like a kipper.....the car certainly has😢
As soon as I heard “expanding foam” I was worried. It’s the world champion of converting metal into rot.
I too am surprised to find that cruddy work. But while agencies may do their own maintenance, they often contract out for the body work. At least it wasn't the frame that was rusted out. It may be easier to just buy two new front wings, have them painted and bolt them on than trying to repair the existing ones.
I really feel for you. I bought a campervan a few years ago which looked great and had a clean MoT. Took it in for it's next MoT and it was absolutely rotten, cills, suspension mounts, inner wheel arches etc. It was full of expanding foam which had been coated in underseal. It was beyond economical repair for me so I ended up selling it for a fraction of what I paid for it. Needless to say, I'm a lot wiser now, but it can happen to anyone really.
I cannot believe how much was hiding away under there! That's awful, many hugs and strong cups of tea are needed.
"I'm just going to sweep up my car". You cracked me up with that drole comment, Matt. Chin up, as the old saying goes "Could be worse, you can replace things and not people ". Doesn't bear thinking about if it was structural and you had an accident.
Thanks for the support in the comments, and huge thanks to all who have Super Chatted too, Ive ordered sill repair panels now and will look for front wings in the UK after the bank holiday!
Where did you get your repair panels? I'm in NY and need some for my 2001.
Its a bit foolish they care about rocker panels on a full frame car....
Alao, unfortunately, nothing in America rusts like a Ford.
I have to say Matt, I'm genuinely impressed by how composed you've managed to stay on camera when you must have just wanted to start shouting and hitting things with a breaker bar. That's an absolute heartbreak.
At least with the Crown Vic being one of your dream cars, this was never going to be a flip for profit exercise and any money, time and effort you invest you'll be able to enjoy for years ahead.
Plus you have a viewing community behind you who will be coming along for the ride.
The exact same thing has happened to me with my 2009 Crown Vic, minus the expanding foam. I took the cover of for most of my sill to actually fall off with them! It is what’s stopping me getting the MOT to register it so me and a friend are trying to fabricate some form of sill to replace it. This will be an interesting series to follow. It is gut wrenching to discover and I’ve been there, I wish you luck with this
Oh no, had you imported it yourself too? There are repair panels on ebay but still need welding in
@@furiousdriving I think 2 replacement sills would be a good idea. It will save a lot of time and probably won’t be a lot more expensive than scratch building.
The scumbag that did that bodge job should be ashamed of themselves. It actually shocked me how much rust was concealed under there.. 😢
Small bit of advice, if you decide to buy any car from America, only buy ones from Arizona, New Mexico, Southern California, or Texas. The paint will be faded and interiors will be cooked, but there will be no rust anywhere. But you still have to be careful, most of those states don’t have inspections other than emissions....(if even that, I’m a mechanic in Wisconsin, where there’s tons of road salt and no inspections, I shower in rust daily)
Old Mercedes can still rust in California or Texas just usually not to the extent of a car from New York, Chicago. This is coming from a W123 owner. If you start poking at body seams and under window seals you will find a small rust spot or one starting.
Most Florida cars are rust free also if they haven't been on the beach. I have a '98 Safari and a '03 Buick Century neither have a speck of rust.
I won’t buy any car from anywhere in the US unless I’ve inspected it first. That way, anything I subsequently find is on me.
I'm gutted for you, seeing that foam come out Matt, but I admire your restraint: I'd have turned the air blue, camera rolling.
My heart goes out to you matey, we all know how much you loved this car. Ford cars have always rusted in the 60's, 70's and 80's but i thought they'd sorted it out by the 90's onwards.
This is why I won’t buy a ford, the rust proofing is terrible…
Gutted for you Matt. That's just heartbreaking finding the rot and the blatant bodgery to hide it all. If you didn't have so many other projects on the go I would encourage you to do it yourself but maybe it would be better to farm this one out. At least you'll get it back in reasonable time and be able to enjoy the car again. On the other hand if the funds are not there then maybe move it on and put the money into the other projects. Good luck!
Ill get a quote but might well do it here
I would be taking it off of those jack stands ASAP because it's likely they will push through.
That's so heart-wrenching 💔 Matt I could see and hear your devastated 😢
I'm sure with the support of everyone, it will be back on the road.
I say getting it done professionally by a reputable body shop would be a better option. But then requires money.
This reminds me of when I discovered that the frame head on my VW Beetle was very rotten. Only that car was almost 50 years old... Finding brown stuff like this really is heartbreaking. I feel for you.
😡 shifty people.
I feel for you.
Fix it yourself. Slow and steady. You will be happy at the end of the project.
"It was in a Mount Prospect Police auction, they were practically givin' 'em away!" -- Elwood Blues (Dan Akroyd)
That’s terrible! I’m glad it was found during an MOT rather than after an accident.
What a shocker! Another American rust bodge! This happens more often than you think. I really do feel for you. The seller needs to hang his head in shame.
At least we used to use proper metal foil and filler years ago, it lasted longer than this, seriously though sorry to see this but it's acceptable in america, once you get going with it it should not be to bad of a job.
con-artists don't feel shame.. they actually take pride in ripping people off; it's a laugh for them.
It looks worse than it is. Once you get the wings off, the sill repairs are pretty straightforward and apart from painting the new wings there should be no other bodywork once the welding is done. Good luck I am sure it will work out.
Don't give up on it Matt. You have the skills to fix it!
Plastic trim is generally a pending sequence of disasters because it traps humidity and thus promotes rust by keeping the metal moist for longer time.
Sorry for your discovery Matt The only positive thing to get out of it was you weren't in an accident with it
At least with the Mini & W123 you knew what you were getting Matt , but that Crown Vic is disgraceful and so underhanded to sell it to anyone ☹️, f*****g deplorable, feel your pain mate.
Jesus I certainly feel for you - you held your composure very well on camera. Years back when I bought my first MGB, a 64 pull handle roadster it looked stunning in its Iris Blue paint, chrome wire wheels sparkling in the sun, a month or so later I noticed some rust appearing in the doors, I took all the trim off to find the doors riddled with foam (as in yours) they used it to shape the bottom of the doors and sprayed over it. I went deeper on the car and the floors were sheets of boiler plate crudely tacked in! The sills were full of filler and chicken wire and it went on, the best panels were the boot lid and bonnet (the bonnet being alloy)... I learnt a lot from that car and in subsequent years I owned many more MGBs and other Brit classics etc and never was stung like that again.
Kudos to you Matt for letting your supporters and fans see your highs and (here) your lows. Small consolation but this makes your channel all the more compelling. Bravo!
Wow, i am so sorry that you were duped like this. It's just scummy that someone would deceive people by making it seem like the car they're selling is actually in a lot better shape than it actually is. Honestly feeling worried about own P71 now, it came out of Florida so I probably shouldn't have anything to worry about, but you can't be too careful. I wouldn't give up on this though, it's one of your favorites (one of mine as well) and you can also take this as an excuse to give it that respray it really needs too!
Sorry to hear about your car. I can understand how frustrating it must be. That police car probably spent many winters running through salt water and then they repaired it on the cheap and auctioned it off.
Oh no, I really feel for you. Watching you uncover all of the filler and holes was heartbreaking. I think you took it pretty well! Shame to see it so rusty and badly bodged. I think I'd have it repaired and move it on, if its gone there, there's likely more festering away.
Just had a thought Matt. Best check the body to chassis mounts, it may be body on frame , but it's all part of the entire structure of the vehicle.
"At least Rover stick with one format of bolts on one car". My 79 Mini has brake pipes with a metric union on one end and an imperial one on the other. Probably because components like the brake bias thing were standard ap parts and therefore metric but the wheel cylinders are still imperial because reasons.
Oh Matt, this was as unexpected for us as well.. when I saw the community post I thought it must be the mini... silly me! wishing you the best, I know how much love you have for it.
My 09 CVPI suffered the exact same problems. Those rocker covers started to fall off under their own weight. When I discovered just how bad it was, it was too late and I decided to just let it go due to milage over 250k miles. Over the following few years (and final 51k miles) the rot completely (and I mean COMPLETELY!) ate the drivers side floor pan. The end of the Vic was when I hit a large puddle at about 35mph and the water cut through the carpet on the floor and completely saturated me and the entire interior. When I say saturated I mean that I had 3/4 of an inch of water in my cupholders. I started looking for a new car the next day.
For what it's worth, that car put up with ALL the shit I put it through (including catching air 3 times - the first time was an honest accident, the following two times were intentional) and I dont think I'll ever forget the 7 years I daily drove it.
I really feel your pain Matt, as a car enthusiast myself it is heartbreaking to find hidden damage, and or, excessive corrosion on your pride and joy, I only hope it’s not too costly and labour intensive for you to repair 😢.
Oh bloody hell matt! im devastated for you, its crap finding stuff like this on beloved cars, shame to the seller. Remember though everything is fixable, hopefully you can source some replacement sills. Dont give up on it as i know youve wanted one of these for a long time.
Yes, thats what Im focusing on, it can be fixed just need some time
To be frank, the remaining market for the Crown Vic in the US are poor people. The ones you see on the road reflect that. Because the late production was so heavily fleet, people with any sort of money to spend are going to buy something that hasn't had the fleet abuse. People who want a vehicle for work and utility are going to buy a pickup. If you buy from a used car lot, it's going to be shady and bottom of barrel. The only way I'd trust one is to buy from a known collector.
Truth.
The rust holes on those rockers are better than you'd think. I recently saw a 1998 Ford Taurus wity the entire rear driver's side rocker missing, it was incredible.
I should add that the town i grew up in had only $500 to make an administrator car from an old police car. Towns don't have a ton of money to fix things, the garage is only there to do normal repairs. But, at least they made a million of these and you can get cheap parts.
Sorry to hear this, I know from experience not to touch anything north of the US for fear it turns to a pile of rust debris on the ground. I used to know an American guy living here in the UK in Southeast London in the nineteen nineties who collected and worked on classic cars and vehicles and classic American vehicles and other unusual vehicles, he had a garage and shop and had Camaros, Chevy Bel Airs Oldsmobiles, even a 1964 Lincoln with suicide doors and no middle pillar etc and some of the vehicles he had were very rotten and on deaths doorstep and we used to break them for the parts and cut the rest up for metal panels to reuse if any and if not just scrapped them, my dad had a custom one off 1982 Ford Transit beaver tail recovery truck with a thick steel heavy duty body on the rear and extended chassis 18 ft long and reinforced and we used to scrap some right rotten vehicles, shame because some are so rare now. Once the tin worm sets in it’s a nightmare, I would say it was that dealer who probably was dodgy as anything and unfortunately he saw you coming my friend. It’s not right at all and dishonest in my opinion, hope the Crown Vic gets the best treatment now and sorted out properly.
Gutted for you, seeing how delighted you were to get it. I seen all the tweets about it and most were going for the Rover but purely going by a lot of American UA-cam channels they seem far less concerned out there about sills rusting out, does the body on frame give them more confidence or is it just less stringent vehicle laws?? Hope you get the crown all welded up and can take satisfying doing the job properly where it's homeland couldn't!
Bit of a bummer but think of all the lovely content you can make with it 😊
Myself heart ❤️ went out to you when we saw the amount of damage the rust had caused, it’s definitely not going to be easy or cheap to fix but I really think you are up to the challenge, really do Matt.
Or you could get it professionally done, not a good choice but I’m up for you to do it, lol 😝.
Thirty odd years ago a couple of my mates imported a Trans Am. They went to collect it from its MOT and the tester asked "You do know it's two cars welded together don't you?". They did not.
Aw man I feel your pain ,I got scammed exactly the same with a Morris minor,but got there in the end stick at it ,turn the channel into furious welding
That's not the smallest of bummers, to put it mildly and like others I commend your (external) patience ... Very sad to see this. As this was very unexpected, I would choose to let it get fixed instead of doing it yourself as that way, you can proceed with your other projects as planned. People who see this can only learn that an older car is best to be inspected very thoroughly in order to know what it is exactly that they want to buy. Wish you the best of luck with deciding how to proceed with this one!
Matt that is a bitter pill to swallow,but you will get through it im certain
If it helps I once had a mk 2 cortina 1600e which had both front windscreen pillars made from chicken wire papier-mâché and body filler,looked brilliant but deadly in the event of an accident cut the roof another cortina and let it in to repair and gave it the webasto roof treatment.
Very sorry about this, and hats off to you Matt for keeping your cool during this, and avoiding obscene language.
I can assure you that the PD shop didn't repair that rocker panel. There are restrictions on painting vehicle here in the USA (Doesn't apply to civilians). You can't paint anything without a proper painting booth. If you do you could face large fines. More than likely the auction company did this to your vehicle. On the bright side fenders are still available and are not very expensive. I would buy two new fenders and just cut the rusted rockers apart and patch them as needed. Then paint it all and put it back together. I bought my 2000 Ford Crown Vic P71 from my agency when I retired. It was still in service in 2018 and in 2019 they sold it. I was assigned the car when it was new and drove it for 12 years. It was passed around to other officers for a few years before it was used as a spare unit until it was retired. I live in the southeast US and have the same rust problem. They are known to rust under the rocker moldings unfortunately. So, I will need to repair my rockers as well. The rocker panels are no longer available so I will have to make my own patches just like you. I would take this opportunity to repair it right and then POR15 the frame and underside. Good Luck!
I'd be heartbroken and furious as I know that was your dream car.
I wish you all the very best and hope that you do not find any further horrors.
I do wonder if it would be worth storing the car somewhere inside and do a proper strip down just incase there are any other horrors hiding which obviously we hope there is not?
Driving and enjoying would be boring. We have a real rust issue in cars from the 90s / 2000's and this is going to make good content. Don't farm it out, have a go..This is what its about. Really like and already subscribe!!
Except, this isn’t really a restoration channel…
What kind of channel do you think it is? Its mostly restoring cars
@@furiousdriving : I thought it was mostly driving cars, sorry. I don’t watch all your videos.
@@furiousdriving Furious Restoring! 😄
It was a working car that was kept going as long as possible for as little effort and expense as possible. It was a bodge yes but didn’t affect the safety, only the perceived condition and value of the car. The ‘repairs’ kept the car on the road for another year or so and helped it find a new owner who has a job and hobby fixing up old cars. Get on with it and get over it !
Can I make a suggestion? Maybe take off the wings and have a body shop stitch on patches to them, weld the sill yourself. I was thinking it might save you a lot of dough. I thought about using photographs of a complete wing with a rule in shot so you can scale the patch panel and get an idea of the shape.
wow so sorry to see that - in fact just realised that I sat watching with my mouth open as the expanding foam appeared. As you said, I've not seen anything like that since about 1983, when a mate attempted to investigate rust in the rear valance of his light blue MKIII Cortina 1.6 L Decor. Turned out to be mainly made from the Sun newspaper, dated just few days before he bought it. But that was par for the course back in the 70's and 80's. Whoever did that these days and thought it was a 'repair; needs to have a chat with themselves as that is an awful mess
That's certainly a significant job to repair. At least a proffesional bodyshop would have the car up on a lift to carryout the work where as you will be lying on the ground taking forever to weld up the sills and wings.
I feel you could become overwhelmed with the total amount of work you have on all of your cars, farming this out would help lighten the load.
Best of luck.
Can't help to be disheartened to see that, such a shame as in your original videos we all thought it was mint
I feel your pain. My Dad once repaired the bottom of the front wing of a Blue Ford Anglia with a block of wood and brillow pads. 😅
So sorry for your discovery - really tough pill to swallow and will not be cheap or quick to fix
My heart sank when I saw the carnage as you uncovered more and more. I had a niggly feeling from it being from Ohio and the salt. But it’s a car that is worth sorting and pursuing as it’s such a coool car. I know it is a real set back but I feel it’s definitely worth it
... and people wonder why the motor trade has such a bad reputation. Gutted for you but hopefully this will be a challenge that you (and maybe a professional welder) can rise to, to make this one of the best Crown Vics in the UK
I can feel your pain and anger! But at least you get some good content, glad to see your channel growing!
This is very very sad. As a CVPI owner I understand how it feels when this amazing car gets ruined by something. I got into an accident in Florida where some lady didn’t yield and hit the left side causing moderate damage and I was absolutely pissed to say the least. It got fixed so I’m happy now but I wish you the best of luck with your Crown Vic
If the frame is sound and there's no rust near the body to frame mounts it's only cosmetic although it looks much worse it's saveable. I feel for you but you can fix it.
It'd 100% be a fail purely on its proximity to seatbelt mountings. Same reason why sills on things like old Mk1 Discoveries are fails despite it also being a body on frame.
Wouldn’t be cosmetic in a side impact
@@rogerhanbury677 The strength is in the frame not the sills.
Yes you need to slim down cars go full time get bigger work shop
as a person who loves crown vics and knows the car is a dying breed I feel you man like I have my eyes on a crown vic and now that's what I'm going to check on the to make sure this doesn't happen to me. But hopefully you don't find any more foam or rust to go over actually take your time to do the job right I'll be buying some of your merch to help you out my fellow crown vic enthusiasts and I wish you the best of luck!!!!!!
Beyond economical repair i think....you have my condolences Matt.
It's always a gamble importing anything from the US due to their incredibly lax inspection standards unless it has been owned by an enthusiast. I lived for a few years in one of the states with the strictest annual tests and even there I was amazed at how little they actually looked at and what utter deathtraps were perfectly legal as long as they passed an emissions test.
How did this car pass an MOT a year ago?
Loads of cars (even as new as 10 years old) get thought the MOT with rust due to plastic covers, wheel arch liners and under trays (which can't be removed) covering it over so the testers screwdriver can't get to them!
the quality of the bodge was good enough to be hidden until it rusted through in a different spot
Hey, it provides content!
A good caution to others. I was always leery of plastic fascias over sills. This was worse than I could imagine.
All I can say is the more you progress, the less there'll be to do!
I live in PA and I never had a car rust out like that. That's poor upkeep and prep. That sucks, though.
That is biblical rot. What is next for the Crown Vic then? It could work out financially better to just import another one from a hotter state and try and get as much money for this scrap one, or use as a parts car.
This doesn’t have frame rot. The fenders can be replaced as can the sills.
scrap it
This is weird Matt, took my Saab for a pre-MOT, rust holes in the floorpan where the drain plugs are... £3k into it and it's getting broken for parts.
Good luck getting the Crown Vic sorted fella! 👍🏼
Man that sucks but the bright side is thatIt looks like repair panels are readily available, and it’s repairable. Dealer needs to be named and shamed!
Sorry to see all that rust Matt. I would never have thought. Just one thing - please do not use the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in vain. I think God deserves all of our respect. Best luck with the Crown Vic.
man am I sorry for you. I can feel your pain. I've been there. A number of times. I am always being taken for a ride by people.... Most of the cars that I have bought have come with some form of hidden bugs and expensive issues....
Hang in there. I love the Crown Vic.
Hugs, danny xxx
I've an old Fiesta with side skirts and I'm terrified to take them off for this reason
Wow! I can't believe what I just watched. So sorry that this has happened but glad that you found it now when you have a chance to save the car.
We all support you Matt. I think if it's as much repair as sills and fenders, maybe a respray, too. Before full commitment, have the underside totally checked, though.
Unfortunately there are lot of vehicles that look absolutely fantastic on the outside but have hidden issues. Don't be disheartened as once its repaired itl be one the best out there & thats your motive to get it done
My heart was crying when i did see this 😢 I wish you all the best of luck Matt and i hope you get a happy outcome 🙏
Very common of ford products of this era. Jags from the same time are the same.
BUT because its body on frame does this rust make the car unsafe?
The Panther body cars like the Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car are body on frame cars - NOT uni-body. The rust damage is cosmetic so long as the big steel frame is not impacted - and it shouldn't be. Police departments usually don't do body work. That kind of stuff is farmed out to an actual specialty shop. This nightmare is likely work by the seller or previous owner/lot. These days the Towns will put their cars in a wholesale auction lot to avoid ANY liability for the condition of the car. They don't bother trying to hide anything.
Oh Matt , I’m truly gutted for you mate , I remember chatting with you and admiring this motor at the NEC …….
I too have had that same dreaded sinking feeling after buying what I was told to be a good car - although in my case, I had had a look at it before I bought it. The car in question was a 1978 MkIV Mini and, because it was bought as a light-project car, I knew I was going to have a bit of work to do.....but what I didn't see was hidden behind the firewall's factory sound deadening pad. Said pad is made of a 20mm thick wool-type fibrous mat, with the outer face 'protected' by a thin plastic layer. Great for soaking up any water that comes into the engine bay or that drips down from the scuttle guttering.
I had gone to look for the paint code a few days after getting the car home. For NZ-assembled CKD cars of that period, this was either above, beside or under the driver's side of the pad. I lifted the pad and was rewarded by the sound of flakes of metal drifting down behind the dash panel.....and when pulled back a little further, it exposed a hole approximately 250mm at its widest point. The pad had also sat against the firewall's central brace and when I went along with a screwdriver (as you did) to find the full extent of the problem, several more holes appeared - the largest being about 30mm round.
At this point, I was sweating, shaking and didn't know if I was angry or about to cry. I had paid what I thought was a reasonable (if not slightly high) price for the car from a supposedly reputable member of the Mini Car Club and my trusting nature had been abused to the fullest - even after asking the bloke point-blank whether there was anything he knew about that I hadn't seen / couldn't see because I couldn't give it the full microscopic once-over where it sat. I got hold of him and asked him about the hole. Seems he knew about it all along and would help me with the car's restoration as compensation.........yeah, right. He never lifted a finger when I called him - always busy with something else or would back out at the last minute or just not turn up. Totally demoralised, the car sat at the back of my garage for a year as I could not bear to look at it, let alone work on it. I then had a major health concern raise it's head, so I sold the car on with full disclosure and took the monetary loss. I then bought a Mini that was in roadworthy condition and have had much fun with it.
It's a bit different in your case in regard to having imported the vehicle and comeback on anyone involved, but the feeling when discovering the true extent of an issue where you never thought one existed, let alone how bad it is, is exactly the same. I truly feel for you, Matt. Blokes who are genuine, trusting and essentially good in this world, just seem to be taken advantage of and ripped off. I don't like having to be cautious, cynical or hard-nosed when looking at classics - it is supposed to be a pleasant experience with one enthusiast talking to another and everything out in the open......but I guess they ARE selling it for a reason and that reason is not always the one they choose to disclose.
In the case of US vehicles, the number of channels I've seen where they laugh about rust and rust holes in places that would have our respective inspection services foaming at the mouth, are so numerous that it's best not to think about it. There's an ex-pat countryman of mine who restores the US classics in the States - Kiwi Classics and Customs - and he's a no-nonsense bloke who calls a spade a spade too. As well as correcting bodgery, he often puts a car up on his hoist and shows us what to look for when purchasing a US classic or showing how much bodgery gets done on the vehicles. As he grew up here with our very strict rust laws, him and I have had a few conversations about different vehicles he has shown and speculated about the reactions or numbers of kittens the NZ inspectors would have if they got to see the cars. It's truly frightening when you think about the powerful engines that get dropped into classics or custom vehicles over there when they don't get tested for how safe they are in most states.
Anyway mate, I want to wish you all the best and I truly hope that the repair work turns out easier than first thought and there are no hang-ups finding replacement / reproduced parts for the beast. I'll be going back through your video catalogue to re-watch a few things and comment again in the hope that the monetising algorithm increases in your favour.
Your observations about MOT's is spot on and they are talking about them every 2 years in the UK😱 really feel for you Matt😢
Matt. I've worked on these panther body vehicles for over a decade. I own 5 Lincoln Town Cars, 1 Grand Marquis, etc. The 2002 and older vehicles have a slightly less than great quality frame on them. It's common for them in our equivalent "rust belt" areas to have the frame rot out and crack right around the bulkhead area under the AC drain area. Where the A pillar/firewall come together. When Ford updated the frame metal quality in 2003, changed the suspension design, etc. they fixed the frame rust issue mostly. The frames now last almost 20 years with road salt exposure instead of barely 10. If you live in a part of the US that doesn't use road salt, the frame metal quality doesn't matter.
A vehicle from one of the following states:
Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Washington, D.C. - are all suspect. Not all cars from these states are rusty, but a lot of them can be and ARE. Much like vehicles in Great Britain. And a vehicle from around the "Great Lakes" of the US is usually known to be SUPER rusty, because of all the lake effect snow, subsequent road salt/brine, and humidity. Same for Canadian vehicles. They can be super nasty bad underneath. It's a shame yours is so rusty. The brake lines are known to pop on this era too. In 2003, they finally put some kind of paint/rubber/epoxy over the brake lines. Steering shafts get seized on them too.
If you were in North America, I would say sprayfoam it up, rattle can the bottom and SHIP IT. Find a nice non-rusty one from a southern climate. But since you're many hundreds of (imperial) miles away, the cost/expense of getting another one are going to be more than fixing what you have. Sounds like some welding is in your future.
May I suggest giving your car an oil based undercoating to help preserve what you have? Don't forget to wash and hose out the frame - get the salt, dirt, etc out of it. Bummer about your luck. I live in the southeast of the United States. There are a metric ton of these in the self service (called U Pull It) junkyards around me - doors, fenders, hoods, trunk lids.
I would also suggest looking for patch panels for sale on eBay - you may find some available for the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis.
So sorry to see this has happened on your Crown Vic, I had the same thing on my old 1999 E39 540i BMW after removing the plastic under body protection covers (which seemed to have done more harm than good) because one of my rear jacking points collapsed when I was jacking the car up with the stock jack to work on refurbishing the alloys... It's terrible to see such good cars rot away because of water and road salt ingress because these so called plastic protection covers actually trapped the salt and water hiding what's going on until it's too late...
My '90s US Ford had the sills semi-filled with foam, not as any kind of repair but I guess for sound deadening.
I think that it was a cause of rust in itself aside from the plastic covers.
I feel your pain Matt, what a disappointment. Hope you get it sorted. This reminds me so much of my quattro when I bought it back in '01. It was rotten to the core. It looked a bit rusty, but when I started cutting I just kept on going... Rust everywhere.