B20 VERSUS B8 CYMBAL ALLOY * A DRUMMER'S CYMBAL GUIDE
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2015
- An explanation of the fundamental sonic difference between the two primary cymbal alloys that bookend the COPPER/TIN RATIO of cymbal bronze: B20 and B8 (CUSN20 and CUSNB8).
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![Lp. Последняя Реальность #107 РОДНОЙ ДОМ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IK3QKzKUlHM/mqdefault.jpg)
I always enjoy your videos... My favorite part is all the descriptive onomatopoeia... Its like a unique language, just for drummers.
Collaboration station?
I would loved to be locked up in a nut house with this guy. Talk cymbals until the other patients revolted....
By far the best explanation and definitely most entertaining Alloy analysis and comparison. Thank you🍻
I'd like to hear you do a video comparing Meinl B8 vs Paiste B8.
I would love for you to do a segment on Istanbul cymbals. They have a very unique sound.
This is an excellent observation! After seeing a gig played entierly with 2002's I admit they cut like a laser, and furthermore, are able to be bright and complex! It is the case that a cymbal of uniform thickness is louder, and therefore bright B20 cymbals are pressed into shape. However, the tonality is simpler as a result, and so while they project more, they project simple and somewhat boring tones (this I noticed at another gig).
Somewhere around the 9 minute mark you mentioned something about white noise. I've always referred to that as the b8 "hiss." It's the only thing I don't like about the typical b8. Strangely, I like the pin point attack you hear in b8 rides and the clear definition in hats.
Do you have any idea what the ancient Chinese Cymbals were made of? Were they also B20, or was it something completely different?
have a great year,
I do not like how my Paistes sound from behind the kit. But, they are magical mic'd and anywhere else away from the the kit. They are definitely louder too. I love the signature ring of the B8 cymbals vs B20.
I was told paiste 3000s were basically 2oo2 but different lathing? If so why are they so cheap to buy? I would think they would be a collectable cymbal. Thanks again
Thanks Terry,. that helps explain why my 18" older Sabian Rock Crash has a raspier sound than my new "super-cheap but what the hell they sound good" Agazarian Hi hat and 16" crash. I'm no conniseur, but they sound better than anything I got with my used kit. And at less than $50 on a "Stupid Deal of the Day" at Musicians Friend, I couldn't pass them up. They're super-thin, though The first time I attempted all that crashing at the end of "How Many More Times", I didn't know how many more times those cymbals could take it.. My hits glance off though I think I watched a video on how not to hit a cymbal. thanks again for your experienced perspective. I don't have to tell you... Drums, no, cymbals alone are like a whole paycheck worth of hobby.
i still think, In my opinion that paiste cymbals sound so much pleasing than any other cymbal makers...they always sound great no matter what price or range..I have tried so many but !, always keep my Paiste...it's late, I just played a gig with my PST7 they sound so good..
Love your videos Terry!!! "Oh, the house is going to explode" lol. I would love to hang out with you and talk drums!
The paiste has an awesome initial crash/ attack sound.. although the zildjian is nice too
The B20 Side:
Hey Terry have you checked out the new A Avedis cymbals that just came out in April. The have a vintage patina like the giant beats and are very much like the 17" A crash (flatter profile) I have from the 1960s.
The B12/15 Side:
I also have a very rare Paiste Traditionals 20" Thin ride with the etched logo; first run on the series I believe . Now they only offer the Light Ride in the Traditionals. Great ride for jazz/fusion and rock..etc. This cymbal is so unique it has what paste refers to as a silvery sound. They love to use this term on their website.The thin ride definately has a jazzy dark smoky character but with that B15/ B12 silvery/sparkle top end ping that my Zildjian K Constantinople Medium ride doesn't have. Great bell on the Thin ride as well especially for a thin ride. Thanks for the all videos!
ZIlcan would still be pronounced Zildjian. In Turkish C would take on a "Ch" or like a "J" sound. While the Zildjians an Armenian family would sometimes spell there name "Zilciyân" or "Zilcan", like Kerope Zilcan and his grandson, Mikhail Zilcan (cousins of Armand and Avedis) to accommodate the Turkish pronunciation. I think Kerope's Uncle, also named Kerope (Avedis II's brother) spelled it Zildjian. I could be wrong. The family tree is big and convoluted. In either case, I've seen my last name spelled
Canbazian also.
Thanks for this info. I think what it boils down to, is picking something that you like the sound of, and what your going to be doing the most. B8 and B20 bronze sound very different. The problem is this... both are very expensive, and not a lot of people have the disposable income to get a set of both for two different occasions. One occasion being playing out at an outdoor event. One occasion being practice or a small venue. Maybe (to your point) you'd really like to hear the close proximity, pleasant sound of B20 in a practice space or small venue. Then you'd also like the option to project in a live, outdoor, unmiced setting and take advantage of the projection of B8. The problem is the fact that those two modest sets of cymbals will cost you about $1000 each. I play in a band that seldomly gigs, and I use a combination of different bell bronze and B20 cymbals. The only B8 cymabls that I have are Paiste 15" 2002 Soundedge hi-hats. These actually sound fantastic inside and out, but do certainly project. In this case... I love the feel of the 15" hats, and I think the size of them helps lower the piercing frequency that you get with B8. The same might hold true for cymbals. If you played large, thin B8 cymbals... they'd sound more pleasant in a small setting, and though they wouldn't project as much as a small cymbal... they'd still likely project more than B20. Perhaps this is the "perfect" set for someone who plays out and in about 50% of the time???? Or... you could reverse the thought process and choose a set of B20, but use thicker cymbals. This will give you the volume to project, and might still be less unpleasant (for lack of a better term) in a small space???? Very interesting to think about. Thanks!
I stand firm in my belief that Zildjian K series cymbals are THEE most pleasant sounding cymbals up close. Very warm and musical. However.... they' simply do not project. Unless you're miced up... these would not be the choice of anyone playing an outdoor gig with loud guitars.
What one can do on a budget is make the B20 the primary, and keep a crash and a ride/crash (Medium) in B8. Nothing shittier than when a key crash doesn't curt through. The Paiste PST 7 are affordable B8 that sound terrific.
Revisited this video for reference. Bonzoleum the Encyclopedia.
Bonzo, let's just cut to the chase. what's the best bang for the buck, whether it's B8 or B20? what's the best lowest price cymbal for the money?
Hey dude, Ummm I have a Paiste 502 ride and I seen and played a Paiste 502 PLUS ride. I would like to know the difference between them. Is ok in the future you could do a small video on a comparison?
+Fever FireFox THE 502 PLUS has 'lathing' that is etched-in somehow: either by machine chisel or laser.
So are the B8 cymbals the ones cut from a sheet & formed rather than cast cymbals made from that puck of B20?
THE PUCK OF B20- Ross you're a genius. The perfect image. You have coined that term and I shall if you don't use it in my next inevitable 'being asked the question'.
B8 is ear piercing! Sabian B8 Pro is sweet, and dark! Love 'em. When I used to talk to Robert Zildjian, he told me to tell me fellow stone cutters that in the Zildjian factory in the vault, it's just the workers who were confident that they were putting in 20 percent or eight percent tin in the pot. Nothing all that special. When Robert passed away, Zildjian brought back the Sweet Ride and changed the New Beat hi hats to what they were in the glory days. Maybe it was in memory of Robert Zildjian...maybe the he was the one who created those models.
I agree with the 'white noise' or static factor in alloys
what's the weird dot at the center of this video? you can see it most easily on the dark bass drum head just behind you, but it's not reflecting off that.
+Maschine Messiah The camera has a targeting laser on it.
Sounds dangerous, thank you for the videos!
+Maschine Messiah thats the same same guided system as back in Vietnam
+Maschine Messiah jokes
i like b20. i had b8 hats as a kid. just didnt do it for me. live.
+Maschine Messiah I'm kidding-there's a pixel grouping that's funky on the camera!
The paiste sound room just convinced me I might need a 2002 20" power crash, to my surprise.
Terrfic! Just in case make sure you compare against a CRASH MODEL if they hav e it there.
so what do you think of the new stuff coming out b12 alloy ?
+deewayne The new Zildjian S family of cymbals is B12 and they seem pretty decent to me.
Hi Terry, there's footage of bonham playing the bassdrum up close. If you watch the live video were they play bring it on home at the royal albert hall you can see very clearly bonham's doing a heel toe'ish tecnique .I know that it's completly out of topic but I had to let you know about it
please reply
+Alessandro Candido Thank you, Alessandro-I'll check it out!
+bonzoleum in the video you can clearly see some really clear shots of the foot even if its a bit dark
I totally agree at 4:07 . At 20:16 he gets to the point.
I'm my opinion Paiste b8 has much more character when recorded as well.
Now some companies are even using b25 alloy! Im not sure what sonic reasons, but yeah!
Both great just different. I myself pretty much exclusively prefer B20 for hi hats and most rides, but crashes go either way.
shareing to facebook. there is a lesson in here but just.
good work a but hazy
But why are B8 Zildjians and Sabians considered low end?
Sonically they are mediocre but for some purposes get the job done. They are priced low end as well. Not much craftmanship is put into them, as is the secret to Paiste's success with it.
@@bonzoleum Aha. Thanks!
Wuhan would say the B2O's been around for at least a couple of 1000 years
This, ladies and gentleman is what ADHD looks like lol. Great video though, as always.
In summary: B8s carry sound farther and longer than B20s. B20s are more retro have a signature noise
Johann Fuchs Hmmm? Retro? The oldest Zildjian K Custom Hybrid cymbal is from 2006. That’s hardly retro and sounds nothing like any cymbals from the 30’s though 70’s. A 57 Chevy is retro. It’s impossible for a cymbal to be “retro”. They either sound good or sound like crap.
4:50
Gotta recognize that Dream Lover. :D
Microphones follow electrical recording circa 1925.
Dude, surely its just a subjective thing... I personally think that all the b8's I've tried dont cut it, and compared to b20's they sound terrible. Harsh with little dynamic and they sound pretty shitty live. Also, you keep saying if your a paiste guy or zildjian guy etc. Thats a bit silly really...every cymbal is different and to not try lots of cymbals is missing the point.
B8 cuts more than B20
Louder cymbals only help when your a rock drummer.
drunk and stoned waffle.
+Mystninja001 Did I really seem drunk and stoned? I hop I'm not having a series of pre-strokes..
*_Bozo, I think the word you struggling to find is harmonics... It's a bit like comparing transistor amps to tube amps... Tube amps produce second order or even harmonic distortion (gorgeous) while on the other hand, transistor amps produce a third or odd harmonic distortion (cringe-worthy) - or dissident as you call it... Which, by the way, is the category I would place ALL Paiste cymbals... Regrettably, I once kitted out fully on Paiste cymbals on a special deal, but very quickly learned to HATE them... Shortly after I swapped them all for a single hand-beaten 'Istanbul 22 Ride' which I still use to this day, and like Charlton Heston, I'll never willingly give it up, if you want it, you'll have to rip it from my 'Cold Dead Hands'_*