I guess Super Saiyan 3 Drawbacks is exactly how much energy it takes out Akira Toriyama when drawing SSJ3 so that's probably why is rare and this form hardly being used.
100% They never mastered it(full power SSJ3 Cumber uses it and almost beat Vegito) It's the best form. So is SSJ4. They are the only forms that arnt just a copy paste job. Look its Goku BUT WITH NEW COLOR OF HAIR!!! Even if u disagree at least it LOOKS DIFFERENT and makes since. They lose eyebrow bcs Akira said they are more "primal" like their great ape forms. I miss when anime in the 90's and 2000's had strong forms with long hair Yuyu Hakusho , Bleach, Inyuyasha, DBZ, and etc.
Vegeta is a character that feels weirdly contradictory to me. He doesn't bother with SSJ1 Grade 3 or SSJ3 because they waste energy but he's quick to jump to super inefficient and wasteful techniques like the rapid ki blast spam or the final flash. It really feels like he's smart enough to not throw ki away right up until the point where his ego is tested, and then all strategy and restraint go out the window immediately
I always thought that SS3 needed a mini-arc where it gets mastered by a couple of characters like SS1 got for the Cell Games. Like, if there had been a Grade 2 where its power was tamed in a way, that would have been interesting. It's just so poorly used in the series and there could have been so much done with it.
the fact that no Saiyan except goku could achieve this form because of his hard trainning in the an other world of dead pepole and also vegeta wanted to take a different path in transformations to exceed goku
My head cannon is that vegeata just simply couldn't do it because its almost physically impossible to do. goku achieved the form as a spirit, he didnt have any physical limitations at the time. Gotenks is a fused character, its safe to assume his body doesn't have the same limitations that a normal person would. Vegeata has only really trained in the physical realm, if he had time in the spirit world like goku im sure he would have been get the form as well but with the limitations of being in the real world, his body wouldn't have been able to handle the transformation. With the power boosts in super i bet he could reach the form now, but why bother? Whis initially him training to improve his base and all the transformations he's got since then are all way more powerfull and far more efficient than super saiyan 3 ever was.
It would have been interesting if a hypothetical SS3 Majin Vegeta actually existed, and it turns out that the Majin spell actually enhances his SS3 to the point of significantly increased power AND endurance. Just like it did to his SS2 form (to make it equal to Goku's SS2 form) - but even moreso due to the nature of Majin being the epitome of pushing your body beyond its limits, which is what SS3 symbolizes. For all we know, in this hypothetical scenario (where Majin boosts SS3 extra significantly) , it could require Goku and a late-to-arrive, post-healed, slightly stronger Gohan (from getting nearly killed by Fat Majin Buu) to take down Vegeta! Would have been an epic scene no doubt! But realistically, assuming Vegeta's power ends up being equal to SS3 Goku's (it should), Goku should still win due to the fact that Vegeta has no experience with the form at all compared to Goku. Even with the Majin spell in mind, it could burn him out fast due to not having a dead body.
That makes sense that Vegeta seeing the drawbacks to that form similar to Trunks using Super Sayian grade 3 and realizing like Goku the form slows you down too much and so Vegeta tried pushing what seems like grade 2 as far as it would go. We see similar examples like with Freiza in the Tournament of Power he either uses his Golden Form or his Final Transformation base form as it uses less power and he could fight longer. So the theory of Vegeta pushing Super Sayain 2 as far as it could go tracks very well with his mindset.
In the original manga I felt like Ss3 was intentionally portrayed as useless. In both gokus fight against kid buu and gotenks fight against super buu it was shown that you just cant stay in the form for very long at all unless you have a dead body meaning you cant win even fights as a ss3. Goku probably would've never came up with the transformation if he was alive those 7 years. I never got the impression that it was under utililized or anything like that and thought it served its purpose as a narrative tool and a failed transformation. And while its awesome and badass, the story would've been far better had ss2 been the final transformation.
I was always under the impression that Super Saiyan 3 was an unnatural form. Goku was only able to achieve it when he was dead and thus didn't have the limitations of his living body (and when he does come back to life, he can't maintain the form for long), and Goten and Trunks can only achieve it while fused and suffered the same problem Goku does when using it in a living body. So Vegeta never achieved Super Saiyan 3 because he's never been dead long enough to do so and he's not a fusion.
I think if god ki and god forms were never introduced Vegeta would have eventually learned ssj3. But ssj3 was already outclassed in BoG so really no need for it. Great video btw. My 2 favorite dbz youtubers!
Ssj3 is a form that can be used tactically but it never is, dismissed as inefficient. I think it could be used to end a fight as quickly as possible or when the transformation sequence is mastered, using it for short controlled bursts of ridiculous power before going back down to ssj2 or 1 for ki and stamina retention. However the way it's always used is as a last ditch continuous effort or stalling that only accomplishes tiring Goku out before leaving him exhausted and vulnerable.
It was used correctly in Fusion Reborn. Goku used it to take down fat Jenemba quickly and even stated he was gonna end the fight immediately. It’s only because Jenemba transformed and became so much more powerful and defeats Goku that it gets overshadowed.
@@R.E.factor yeah I agree with this. It's also why fusion reborn and wrath of the dragon are my favorite showings of the form. Goku utilized Ssj3 to It's strengths and showed how useful and outright powerful it can be. In boxing if you throw nothing but haymakers with your dominant hand, miss most of your punches and end up getting gassed out and losing the fight, that doesn't mean your haymaker sucks or isn't useful. It just means you were using it incorrectly. Slipping haymakers in after a successful combination, a countershot etc, when your opponent is dazed. These are proper ways to use your most powerful punch. Ssj3 is the same, you use it sparingly and strategically not recklessly.
Vegeta saw the drawbacks of ssj3 from seeing Goku use it; namely the massive power consumption and stamina issues and just focused on his base power and mastering ssj2.
and yet freezas own golden form which drain mad ki and stamina... he overcame and perfected. as true golden freeza. come on goku and vegeta!! lettin freeza show yall up. makes sense black freeza is a thing. puttin the ancient warrior race to shame. go lord freeza!! 👍😆
I dont think thats necessarily true. Is it really a drawback if you can win before the strain of the form activates? How long would it take for SSJ3 Goku to overpower SSJ2 Vegeta? It would be pretty much a similar fight as Kid Buu vs SSJ2 Vegeta. Yeah Vegeta lasted over a minute and tanked several hits very impressively, but he was also too damaged and could barely stand, let alone do any sort of significant damage anymore. Even if Goku got in a fatigued state by then it wouldnt really matter anymore when Vegeta took that much battle damage already.
I remember back in the day when Geekdom reacted to the mini arc of that goo that copied vegeta and it was ridiculous how gotenks ss3 couldn't even touch vegeta when they tried to save him, yeah super really destroyed the power scaling of previous forms.
@@chefinabottle they could have easily written goku to have mastered or improved upon 3 in the 5 year skip between Buu arc and BoG but they didn’t. it’s really a shame that they give these forms drawbacks and characters just jump to new forms without ever really mastering previous ones
@@Rem694u2 goku black kind of did that in heroes so I just soak it up as that it’s possible goku could go ssj3 god ki it’s just he chooses not to aim for that or maybe ssj3 unstable rage too much for even god ki as far as canon . I think going ssj3 is way more harder than any other super saiyan form. Goku explained it’s tapping even deeper into the saiyan rage probably very straining mentally to combine it with god ki
I don't remember where it was said but I vividly recall that trying to attain SS3 for the first time requires the user to dig deep and bring out every drop of super sayian potential. Which would be physically impossible for a mortal to do, they would die from the strain before they achieved the form. The only reason Goku was able to do it because he was dead and Gotenks is a fusion. Looking at it from a continuity perspective he never bothered to learn it because shortly after Buus defeat the God training became available to him.
It could be possible that SS3 isn't a natural transformation... Goku achieved it while he was dead and Gotenks achieved it as a fusion... It's also not a rage induced transformation like ss1 or ss2... Goku got knocked out of the form twice against kid Buu without being knocked out..
I always thought training their god ki was a way to peefect ki control to macimize each bit of ki. I have been patiently waiting for a super sayain 3 god form.
I would like to see Super Sayian 2 broken down into grades. My head canon is that Super Sayian 3 is really Super Sayian 2 grade 3, and it needs to be mastered like they do for Super Sayian.
Goku mastered SS1 in Cell saga but they retconed that in DBSuper, it would be cool to see him master all the forms because SGBlue is overused in my opinion. About the topic, maybe Vegeta can transform but at this point there's no reason for him to do because all that matters now are god ki.
@MANDINGOBBC yeah, there is a form that pushes you even beyond and have no consequences? Looks stupid, SS3 and SS4 are the coolest forms in my opinion, I still look at SS3 and think that it feels special.
I think there is a good point about not getting the job done. They added all these forms and they don’t get the job done. Why would Vegeta NOT want SSJ3 when it doesn’t get the job done, but want the other forms that didn’t get the job done either?
@@joeysullivanTM naw a lot of older Db fans like ssj2 more I don’t know how old you is but seeing gohan go ssj2 for the first time on toonami was just something special so many people were hype. My opinion though It’s fair to have a opinion
Short answer toriyama hates drawing long hair..that's why the issue with him burning too much stamina was introduced and the shorter hair transformations were introduced and mastered. That's why raditz was never revived..No need to overthink it...plus it doesn't suit him he'd look like a hedgehog 😭
If I recall all ssj forms have a drawback of energy that u got to master ( goku and gohan did it in the hyperbolic chamber) so you should be able to master ssj3. now we should remember that with super everything changed, to goku it was 7 years to get ssj3, maybe vegeta was in the process of that and Beerus came to earth( as a living being it should be more difficult than for goku as a spirit). With Beerus coming and de the god transformation ssj3 was no needed , so maybe Beerus interrupted that vegeta training as he was getting there
Easy answer: Vegeta most likely realized the drawbacks of super saiyan 3. When, who knows. But he's had time with goku. Most importantly, goku and vegeta realized and switched to the mentality of strengthening your base form, which ends up in a bigger number being multiplied by the ssj modifiers. 😊
Super Saiyan god came to quickly. It think if beerus didn’t come looking for a god. Then ssj3 would have been the next evolution. The purpose of dragon ball super was to challenge the dragon ball team to push pass the mortal realm and stress there might and bodies to the point of godliness. Of course they will never be gods but there perspective has changed and they’ve gotten immensely stronger because of it. I think beerus is proud of it which is why he is tolerating Goku and Vegeta.
Since ssj3 bleeds ki its always gonna be a detriment. Only someone who has ability to continually build ki would be able to overcome this. Broly comes to mind as being able to counter ssj3 ki bleeding. Which makes me feel that each ssj form exemplifies separate categories. Such as ssj is using ki efficiently and a balanced upgrade otherwise. Ssj2 boosts raw physical stats. Ssj3 is more about ki usage, like an overflow button.
9:27 Goku was making short work of Khalifa and Kale while in his base form while they were fighting at their highest in ssj and if i remember even ssj2...up until he had to go ssj2 to keep up with the both of them...
I get the idea about transformations being more of a multiplier its consistent with how dbz power scales but where is falls apart is when cabba ssj is able to keep up with vegeta which really still bothers me , are they saying that base form cabba is actually stronger than namek freeza
Another thing I don't understand how Vegeta gained the SSJG transformation. Shenron said that a "Ritual" needed to be performed containing 6 pure hearted Saiyans and Vegeta did not do the "Ritual". Shenron never mentioned that all you needed to do was train hard enough to achieve it like he did with Whis. Someone please explain this to me, thanks.
"This form extracts every drop of potential from a Saiyan's blood. " I think of it more as it pushes the user to their limits. Sort of like Gohan's "mystic " form but with the huge drain it has because it's a high end Ssj form. Kind of like a limited time limit breaker.
I feel as though the perfect opportunity for Vegeta to become a SSJ3 was in GT given that it was a form he never achieved and after the events of the Baby Saga he could train to achieve the form wanting to increase his strength. Realizing that he was able to rival a SSJ4 Goku as a Golden Great Ape now wants to see how far he can take his power to the next level. And not only that but also even master the transformation doing something that Goku wasn’t able to do.
During Dragon Ball Gt, after Baby took over Vegeta's body, he transformed into a form where his hair grows beyond his previous two, he also loses his eyebrows and he also has a single brow across his face. All features of the Super Saiyan Three form
My assumption would be because it's a seemingly custom level goku attained, and then unintentionally mocked him by not using it against him. Super gave us the tidbit of how vegeta feels about using gokus signature techniques when he learned instant transmission. Besides that by the time it would've even been relevant they had god forms to attain. His laugh when trunks told him to go 3 was gold. Lol
It may also be harder to unlock without being dead, and Vegeta was never dead for an extended period of time. All things considered, maybe he didn't think it was worth it compared to just focusing on getting stronger. It was also introduced with really bad timing, because Buu is the worst possible villain to use this against other than maybe Zamasu with his immortality. A form that doesn't last very long against a villain that is close to immortal and that never seems to run out of stamina.
Probably saw it’s drawbacks and didn’t think it was worth it so for a while the goal was to strengthen his base to the limit so SSJ 2 could be at its absolute peak. But I’m sure he could do it now if he wanted to.
Vegeta seems like the type who would go SS3 regardless of practicality, just to prove that he could. He did so for SS1 grade 2 after all. And his Final Flash is another example of him going all out just to test the limits of his power, regardless of it being an optimal use case. And there's being a cocky bastard, his signature trait, exemplified by letting Cell transform into perfect Cell, and ultra ego
I remember in Super when he saw Future Trunks convert into the muscled form again, he looked at it with contempt. Seems to me Vegeta is more into speed, running and dodging then hitting with high energy blasts. He probably sees SSJ3 as that, strength that sacrifices speed, aside from being an energy (and thus, maybe a life-force) hog.
The reason because the animators don't want to draw that much hair reason why radditz die so early and they made goku gave a gohan got a hair cut because his was getting too long
@@GeteMachine That actually might be very true I won't say forsure, that's why SSJ3 was barley used Toryiama actually said before in an interview/maybe an article I saw it.... Not to sure honestly I just remember seeing that somewhere a long time ago that it was stated he got tired of drawing all the hair.
@@GoofyPoptart dude the only reason why goku turn into a super saiyan was because toriyama wanted to take pressure of his assistants/editors for coloring the black in goku hair
I personaly believe that you need to have a tail in order to use Super Saiyan 3 perfectly. Really love these videos about Dragon Ball Z love it keep up the great work👍
It doesn’t matter how much you master a form, it will never outclass the next tier form. Especially when you take into account that Goku and Vegeta are about the same in base strength.
I know it's often considered useless but situational is arguably more accurate. Given it's forcing the saiyan to really "dig deep" into their bodies to draw out that ki and channel that large reservoir at once; a power that could wipe Buu out in a single blast potentially, I would say it was worth having if you needed that push to finish something off of that power level. It's like a Super Saiyan equivalent of a Kaio-Ken multiplier for your stats. You're considerably overclocking your ki to its maximum as a SSJ for that final push. I feel that's something that needs to be considered. Vegeta, I guess, would prefer to drag out fights, humiliating his opponents before finishing them so a form that's just an overclocking of the SSJ form up to that point isn't his style. Out of universe, new opponents require a new tier of power so, depending on the continuity be it GT or Super, Vegeta is going either SSJ4 or "Ultra Ego" or SSJGSS making SSJ3 obsolete and not worth using given the drawbacks if it can't kill the opponent in one short round of attacks or just one singular blast.
He peaked at the Cell Games because after Goku's death he lost his motivation to continue with his training. It's one reason Vegeta was so agitated with Gohan. Gohan who should've had the motivation (taking over the role of protector) to continue his training did not. If Vegeta had not stopped training I believe he would have achieved the form because he wouldn't have known about the massive drawbacks beforehand.
I always assumed one of two reasons Vegeta didn't go SS3. The first is what you were talking about, about Vegeta seeing the weaknesses. The other was maybe there was something about going SS3 that Vegeta didn't have the potential for. We do see little things that Goku can do that Vegeta never learns (For example, Vegeta never mastered Super Saiyan form the way Goku and Gohan did). It's possible that Vegeta did try and couldn't reach the form the same way Goku did. And if that was the case, it would make sense why he didn't ever talk about it. Of course, it's all hypothetical.
Vegeta mastered ssj after his second time in the time chamber look at the manga in pay attention to how Vegeta in trunks look during the cell games. also he literally stayed in ssj the whole time he was Majin Vegeta so that’s proof there that Vegeta already mastered super saiyan you have to master it to unlock ssj2 except for Caulifa goofy self 😆
@@brizzy5star You can also argue it was Babidi's magic that made him a permanent Super Saiyan as well though. I don't think it was ever stated specifically why he was Super Saiyan constantly as Maajin Vegeta, unless you have some proof for your claim.
I feel like, no matter his reasons for not using it, he should at least learn how to do it(if he hasn't already). I doubt we'll ever get it, but if we got an Arc where they are unable to use God Ki, then having a Mastered Version of SSJ3 would be a huge asset. I also think that the "My Bulma" scene could've been even better if Vegeta went SSJ3. It could've been the first and only time we see him use it in the official story.
@@herculesburgess6773 yea, easily. Goku later in the Buu saga transformed into SS3 extremely quickly. Even going from base straight to SS3 at one point.
Personally for me I always figured that Vegeta knew how to go Super Saiyan 3 due to the drawbacks of that form I believe that's why he never took and the fact that Super Saiyan God happen in Super Saiyan blue and those forms severely out class Super Saiyan 3 so it's no point
So that's what Geekdom looks like... Tell me why he looks he looks exactly like I imagined he would? EXACTLY. Like, to the point to where even the hat and the beard is something I imagined.
My theory is that Vegeta was just tired of being outdone by Goku at the end of DBZ. He even admitted that Goku was better than him, which are the last words a proud character like him would say unless he had given up trying to become the best. So thats why he didnt try to achieve Ssj3 in my opinion. And when DBS started he saw there was a way to become a Super Saiyan God and was able to compete with Goku on equal footing again without falling behind which usually was the case in DBZ.
9:25 That would happen if things made sense in DBS, since that Goku can be killed with one hit by DBZ Goku because in DBS if Goku doesn't keep his guard up he can be killed by any normal weapon. In DBS Goku can be scratched by bullets if he is not completely focused, which is almost always his state in DBS, unlike when he was a kid, and people were shooting at him when he thought someone was throwing marbles at him, or when he entered some house with his guard completely down he received the full force of an ax to his head, and the ax broke off his head into pieces. In DBS Goku was shot by a regular laser from a small ring, was mortally wounded while being transformed into a Super Saiyan Blue, things that would never happen to DBZ Goku.
I thought SSJ3 was so cool I wish they'd have used it More. I loved the Build up to the Transformation too. I mean Goku Generating so much Power that He was shaking the entire planet was awesome.
I think the story has much to do with it. Vegeta essentially drops his rivalry with Goku when he sees his fight with Kid Buu. He’s not chasing Goku anymore. So he trains for himself. There’s no need to do what Goku does. Just do what you can and be happy with your family. So by the end of Z, Vegeta wasn’t even interested in tournaments until Goku told him someone besides them would be as strong. Then, in GT, Vegeta trained not for battle, but for himself. He didn’t even go on a quest, but sent Trunks and Goten 😂. He was a changed man, or a changed Saiyan if you want to say. People change you know? And he outgrew the desire to just be the best or be better than Goku. He didn’t care about that, but wanted to be the best husband and father. He even fell in love with Earth and wanted to protect the people of Earth. It was a character change more so than he “couldn’t” achieve it. He…didn’t want to!
Because Vegeta doesn't have music for it
😂
Cuz he spent to much for the final flash theme
Loughs in the enigma tng and Scott Morgan...
For Dragonball that should make sense 😂.
That's true his music was the best
I guess Super Saiyan 3 Drawbacks is exactly how much energy it takes out Akira Toriyama when drawing SSJ3 so that's probably why is rare and this form hardly being used.
100% They never mastered it(full power SSJ3 Cumber uses it and almost beat Vegito)
It's the best form. So is SSJ4. They are the only forms that arnt just a copy paste job. Look its Goku BUT WITH NEW COLOR OF HAIR!!!
Even if u disagree at least it LOOKS DIFFERENT and makes since. They lose eyebrow bcs Akira said they are more "primal" like their great ape forms.
I miss when anime in the 90's and 2000's had strong forms with long hair
Yuyu Hakusho , Bleach, Inyuyasha, DBZ, and etc.
@@LSSJTHOR true it just isn’t the same anymore which is why even tho I watched a few seasons I just don’t care. I haven’t watched in a few years.
Vegeta is a character that feels weirdly contradictory to me. He doesn't bother with SSJ1 Grade 3 or SSJ3 because they waste energy but he's quick to jump to super inefficient and wasteful techniques like the rapid ki blast spam or the final flash. It really feels like he's smart enough to not throw ki away right up until the point where his ego is tested, and then all strategy and restraint go out the window immediately
The ki dumps are intentional, they always break their limits so
Final Flash is worth it imo, the damage it can do is actually unreal even with the energy need
@@andreadebernardis4390 It would've also obliterated Cell had he not moved
Actually in the guides Rapid-Fire Ki Blasts are busted.
No, I’m not, and I really mean not talking about “That’s Vegeta’s Technique”
@@MegaMachiOnlineYou forgot the TM
I always thought that SS3 needed a mini-arc where it gets mastered by a couple of characters like SS1 got for the Cell Games. Like, if there had been a Grade 2 where its power was tamed in a way, that would have been interesting. It's just so poorly used in the series and there could have been so much done with it.
Agreed completely.
Bros really been pumping out interesting and quality content. Keep it up
I wonder if super saying 3 is like an incomplete technique and if they had their tails would it be easier to maintain any ideas
@@justplays24k15 Why are you saying the same thing & also spamming?
Vegeta's hairline was born for SSJ3...Truly a tragedy of starcrossed lovers 😢
the fact that no Saiyan except goku could achieve this form because of his hard trainning in the an other world of dead pepole and also vegeta wanted to take a different path in transformations to exceed goku
That's makes sense. I'm wondering if there's a cap on half saiyans that aspect never really been explored
My head cannon is that vegeata just simply couldn't do it because its almost physically impossible to do. goku achieved the form as a spirit, he didnt have any physical limitations at the time. Gotenks is a fused character, its safe to assume his body doesn't have the same limitations that a normal person would. Vegeata has only really trained in the physical realm, if he had time in the spirit world like goku im sure he would have been get the form as well but with the limitations of being in the real world, his body wouldn't have been able to handle the transformation. With the power boosts in super i bet he could reach the form now, but why bother? Whis initially him training to improve his base and all the transformations he's got since then are all way more powerfull and far more efficient than super saiyan 3 ever was.
It would have been interesting if a hypothetical SS3 Majin Vegeta actually existed, and it turns out that the Majin spell actually enhances his SS3 to the point of significantly increased power AND endurance. Just like it did to his SS2 form (to make it equal to Goku's SS2 form) - but even moreso due to the nature of Majin being the epitome of pushing your body beyond its limits, which is what SS3 symbolizes.
For all we know, in this hypothetical scenario (where Majin boosts SS3 extra significantly) , it could require Goku and a late-to-arrive, post-healed, slightly stronger Gohan (from getting nearly killed by Fat Majin Buu) to take down Vegeta! Would have been an epic scene no doubt!
But realistically, assuming Vegeta's power ends up being equal to SS3 Goku's (it should), Goku should still win due to the fact that Vegeta has no experience with the form at all compared to Goku. Even with the Majin spell in mind, it could burn him out fast due to not having a dead body.
Forms don't work like that. They have fixed multipliers. All the stuff you mentioned is based on the fighter themselves (endurance and so on)
lol. sure it does exist in some db fighting game what if story. who knows.
I wonder if super saying 3 is like an incomplete technique and if they had their tails would it be easier to maintain
@@ak47dragunov Yeah I agree
It's called bad writing.
This is actually the first time I’ve ever seen geekdom irl
That makes sense that Vegeta seeing the drawbacks to that form similar to Trunks using Super Sayian grade 3 and realizing like Goku the form slows you down too much and so Vegeta tried pushing what seems like grade 2 as far as it would go. We see similar examples like with Freiza in the Tournament of Power he either uses his Golden Form or his Final Transformation base form as it uses less power and he could fight longer. So the theory of Vegeta pushing Super Sayain 2 as far as it could go tracks very well with his mindset.
Perfect timing, this will kill 15-20 mins off my shift
Loving the content, and love when you and geekdom team up ❤
3:24 EXACTLY!
Super Saiyan: defeated Frieza
Super Saiyan 2: defeated Cell
Super Saiyan 3: did not defeat Kid Buu
Well ssj and ssj2 had better writings and sagas
In the original manga I felt like Ss3 was intentionally portrayed as useless. In both gokus fight against kid buu and gotenks fight against super buu it was shown that you just cant stay in the form for very long at all unless you have a dead body meaning you cant win even fights as a ss3. Goku probably would've never came up with the transformation if he was alive those 7 years. I never got the impression that it was under utililized or anything like that and thought it served its purpose as a narrative tool and a failed transformation. And while its awesome and badass, the story would've been far better had ss2 been the final transformation.
I was always under the impression that Super Saiyan 3 was an unnatural form. Goku was only able to achieve it when he was dead and thus didn't have the limitations of his living body (and when he does come back to life, he can't maintain the form for long), and Goten and Trunks can only achieve it while fused and suffered the same problem Goku does when using it in a living body.
So Vegeta never achieved Super Saiyan 3 because he's never been dead long enough to do so and he's not a fusion.
I think if god ki and god forms were never introduced Vegeta would have eventually learned ssj3. But ssj3 was already outclassed in BoG so really no need for it. Great video btw. My 2 favorite dbz youtubers!
Man. Geekdom needs to see a doctor and get some sleep immediately. Those bags are vicious af
Ssj3 is a form that can be used tactically but it never is, dismissed as inefficient. I think it could be used to end a fight as quickly as possible or when the transformation sequence is mastered, using it for short controlled bursts of ridiculous power before going back down to ssj2 or 1 for ki and stamina retention. However the way it's always used is as a last ditch continuous effort or stalling that only accomplishes tiring Goku out before leaving him exhausted and vulnerable.
It was used correctly in Fusion Reborn. Goku used it to take down fat Jenemba quickly and even stated he was gonna end the fight immediately. It’s only because Jenemba transformed and became so much more powerful and defeats Goku that it gets overshadowed.
@@R.E.factor yeah I agree with this. It's also why fusion reborn and wrath of the dragon are my favorite showings of the form. Goku utilized Ssj3 to It's strengths and showed how useful and outright powerful it can be.
In boxing if you throw nothing but haymakers with your dominant hand, miss most of your punches and end up getting gassed out and losing the fight, that doesn't mean your haymaker sucks or isn't useful. It just means you were using it incorrectly. Slipping haymakers in after a successful combination, a countershot etc, when your opponent is dazed. These are proper ways to use your most powerful punch. Ssj3 is the same, you use it sparingly and strategically not recklessly.
Blue That what I alway see as a last ditch of finishes fight or battles quickly so I agree ^^.
Vegeta saw the drawbacks of ssj3 from seeing Goku use it; namely the massive power consumption and stamina issues and just focused on his base power and mastering ssj2.
This could be confirmed in BoG with Roshi saying Vegeta's SS2 was stronger than Goku's SS3 aginst Beerus.
and yet freezas own golden form which drain mad ki and stamina... he overcame and perfected. as true golden freeza.
come on goku and vegeta!! lettin freeza show yall up. makes sense black freeza is a thing.
puttin the ancient warrior race to shame. go lord freeza!! 👍😆
I wonder if super saying 3 is like an incomplete technique and if they had their tails would it be easier to maintain
I dont think thats necessarily true. Is it really a drawback if you can win before the strain of the form activates? How long would it take for SSJ3 Goku to overpower SSJ2 Vegeta? It would be pretty much a similar fight as Kid Buu vs SSJ2 Vegeta. Yeah Vegeta lasted over a minute and tanked several hits very impressively, but he was also too damaged and could barely stand, let alone do any sort of significant damage anymore. Even if Goku got in a fatigued state by then it wouldnt really matter anymore when Vegeta took that much battle damage already.
@@stephano2996 I wonder if super saying 3 is like an incomplete technique and if they had their tails would it be easier to maintain any ideas
I haven’t commented very often, but I’ve really been enjoying the past couple of discussion topics! Good stuff
I remember back in the day when Geekdom reacted to the mini arc of that goo that copied vegeta and it was ridiculous how gotenks ss3 couldn't even touch vegeta when they tried to save him, yeah super really destroyed the power scaling of previous forms.
I always thought it would’ve been badass if he went SSJ3 when Beerus slapped Bulma
It was a Huge missed opportunity for him not to gain it in GT and during his first encounter with Beerus in Super after Beerus slapped Bulma.
Who knows we didn't know if Vegeta had super Saiyan god untill super Broly so maybe he does have 3 or knows how to go ssj3
Good video bro
As much as I love this form, the drawbacks make it damn near useless. Wish they let them train so it could have been utilized better
the drawbacks of stamina that also apply to ssjb and evolution and blue evolution and every new form characters unlock that they aren’t used to?
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 But they trained to get over those drawbacks. I said I wished they did the same for 3 but they never did
@@chefinabottle they could have easily written goku to have mastered or improved upon 3 in the 5 year skip between Buu arc and BoG but they didn’t. it’s really a shame that they give these forms drawbacks and characters just jump to new forms without ever really mastering previous ones
@@Rem694u2 goku black kind of did that in heroes so I just soak it up as that it’s possible goku could go ssj3 god ki it’s just he chooses not to aim for that or maybe ssj3 unstable rage too much for even god ki as far as canon . I think going ssj3 is way more harder than any other super saiyan form. Goku explained it’s tapping even deeper into the saiyan rage probably very straining mentally to combine it with god ki
@@brizzy5star Yeah definitely hard to do.
I don't remember where it was said but I vividly recall that trying to attain SS3 for the first time requires the user to dig deep and bring out every drop of super sayian potential. Which would be physically impossible for a mortal to do, they would die from the strain before they achieved the form. The only reason Goku was able to do it because he was dead and Gotenks is a fusion. Looking at it from a continuity perspective he never bothered to learn it because shortly after Buus defeat the God training became available to him.
You probably got that info from the games
It could be possible that SS3 isn't a natural transformation...
Goku achieved it while he was dead and Gotenks achieved it as a fusion...
It's also not a rage induced transformation like ss1 or ss2... Goku got knocked out of the form twice against kid Buu without being knocked out..
Vegeta just skipped over SS3 to Blue because he smart LOL
your geekdom collabs are always on point
I think that’s the first time I
Ever saw Geekdom..
Ita my favorite SSJ form, but I also recognize compared to other forms, it kinda makes no sense to use often.
and this is the reason why goku and vegeta always train in their base form
they don’t want to animate his hair.
Dope topic and collabo. 💪🏼
Good points. I think it's cause first, he can't achieve it at that time and second, he realized there were too many drawbacks to ssj3.
This is a reason why ragging blast 2 is my favorite db game
I always thought training their god ki was a way to peefect ki control to macimize each bit of ki. I have been patiently waiting for a super sayain 3 god form.
I would like to see Super Sayian 2 broken down into grades. My head canon is that Super Sayian 3 is really Super Sayian 2 grade 3, and it needs to be mastered like they do for Super Sayian.
Goku mastered SS1 in Cell saga but they retconed that in DBSuper, it would be cool to see him master all the forms because SGBlue is overused in my opinion.
About the topic, maybe Vegeta can transform but at this point there's no reason for him to do because all that matters now are god ki.
@MANDINGOBBC yeah, there is a form that pushes you even beyond and have no consequences? Looks stupid, SS3 and SS4 are the coolest forms in my opinion, I still look at SS3 and think that it feels special.
man your videos have been so good lately, keep it up.
I would’ve trained to make Super Saiyan God my base form like Goku did for Super Saiyan in the Cell Games. 😅
Because like with trunks he saw the flaws and thought it wasn't worth it.
Because they alread have to much merchandise
There were ssj grade 3 and ssj 3 which he both stayed away from because he saw the flaws in both
I think there is a good point about not getting the job done. They added all these forms and they don’t get the job done. Why would Vegeta NOT want SSJ3 when it doesn’t get the job done, but want the other forms that didn’t get the job done either?
I wonder if super saying 3 is like an incomplete technique and if they had their tails would it be easier to maintain
Rapidly Games Are you talking his gods forms if so I have to disagree with you.
Ssj 3 is one of the best forms in db history
Naw
@@brizzy5star it is
@@joeysullivanTM naw a lot of older Db fans like ssj2 more I don’t know how old you is but seeing gohan go ssj2 for the first time on toonami was just something special so many people were hype. My opinion though It’s fair to have a opinion
@@brizzy5star ssj2 is 🔥🔥🔥 but i said ssj 3 is one of the best fyi I love of the db i've been a db from long as i could remember
@@brizzy5star Ultra instinct & ultra ego are my favorite transformations^^
Short answer toriyama hates drawing long hair..that's why the issue with him burning too much stamina was introduced and the shorter hair transformations were introduced and mastered. That's why raditz was never revived..No need to overthink it...plus it doesn't suit him he'd look like a hedgehog 😭
If I recall all ssj forms have a drawback of energy that u got to master ( goku and gohan did it in the hyperbolic chamber) so you should be able to master ssj3. now we should remember that with super everything changed, to goku it was 7 years to get ssj3, maybe vegeta was in the process of that and Beerus came to earth( as a living being it should be more difficult than for goku as a spirit). With Beerus coming and de the god transformation ssj3 was no needed , so maybe Beerus interrupted that vegeta training as he was getting there
And Toriyama didn't like drawing all that hair.
Easy answer: Vegeta most likely realized the drawbacks of super saiyan 3. When, who knows. But he's had time with goku. Most importantly, goku and vegeta realized and switched to the mentality of strengthening your base form, which ends up in a bigger number being multiplied by the ssj modifiers. 😊
Vegeta is the definition of the META player in any competitive game.. It's not efficient enough and isnt safe
Super Saiyan god came to quickly. It think if beerus didn’t come looking for a god. Then ssj3 would have been the next evolution. The purpose of dragon ball super was to challenge the dragon ball team to push pass the mortal realm and stress there might and bodies to the point of godliness. Of course they will never be gods but there perspective has changed and they’ve gotten immensely stronger because of it. I think beerus is proud of it which is why he is tolerating Goku and Vegeta.
Watch time officially extended 😂🙌🏽
My favorite duo back again!
Since ssj3 bleeds ki its always gonna be a detriment. Only someone who has ability to continually build ki would be able to overcome this. Broly comes to mind as being able to counter ssj3 ki bleeding.
Which makes me feel that each ssj form exemplifies separate categories. Such as ssj is using ki efficiently and a balanced upgrade otherwise. Ssj2 boosts raw physical stats. Ssj3 is more about ki usage, like an overflow button.
Vegeta surpassing goku as a super saiyan 2 in battle of gods confirms this is true in my opinion
9:27
Goku was making short work of Khalifa and Kale while in his base form while they were fighting at their highest in ssj and if i remember even ssj2...up until he had to go ssj2 to keep up with the both of them...
He saw goku without eyebrow and didn’t want to give the fandom another reason to make fun of him
I wish the form was used better, it's a good form for ending a fight quickly
I get the idea about transformations being more of a multiplier its consistent with how dbz power scales but where is falls apart is when cabba ssj is able to keep up with vegeta which really still bothers me , are they saying that base form cabba is actually stronger than namek freeza
Another thing I don't understand how Vegeta gained the SSJG transformation. Shenron said that a "Ritual" needed to be performed containing 6 pure hearted Saiyans and Vegeta did not do the "Ritual". Shenron never mentioned that all you needed to do was train hard enough to achieve it like he did with Whis. Someone please explain this to me, thanks.
"This form extracts every drop of potential from a Saiyan's blood. "
I think of it more as it pushes the user to their limits. Sort of like Gohan's "mystic " form but with the huge drain it has because it's a high end Ssj form. Kind of like a limited time limit breaker.
I feel as though the perfect opportunity for Vegeta to become a SSJ3 was in GT given that it was a form he never achieved and after the events of the Baby Saga he could train to achieve the form wanting to increase his strength.
Realizing that he was able to rival a SSJ4 Goku as a Golden Great Ape now wants to see how far he can take his power to the next level.
And not only that but also even master the transformation doing something that Goku wasn’t able to do.
Why can’t they just do a montage showing off all their forms and include this form.
Wouldn't vegeta know how to go ssj3 after the vegito fusion? Since they share consciousness in the fusion
No.
During Dragon Ball Gt, after Baby took over Vegeta's body, he transformed into a form where his hair grows beyond his previous two, he also loses his eyebrows and he also has a single brow across his face. All features of the Super Saiyan Three form
My assumption would be because it's a seemingly custom level goku attained, and then unintentionally mocked him by not using it against him. Super gave us the tidbit of how vegeta feels about using gokus signature techniques when he learned instant transmission. Besides that by the time it would've even been relevant they had god forms to attain. His laugh when trunks told him to go 3 was gold. Lol
All he needs is enough time to scream
This channel has been revitalized.
I really wish SSJ3 was used more in general, it was such a badass form. I'd love to see Goku fully master the form and use it more often
Great points
It may also be harder to unlock without being dead, and Vegeta was never dead for an extended period of time. All things considered, maybe he didn't think it was worth it compared to just focusing on getting stronger. It was also introduced with really bad timing, because Buu is the worst possible villain to use this against other than maybe Zamasu with his immortality. A form that doesn't last very long against a villain that is close to immortal and that never seems to run out of stamina.
Great vid guys
Probably saw it’s drawbacks and didn’t think it was worth it so for a while the goal was to strengthen his base to the limit so SSJ 2 could be at its absolute peak. But I’m sure he could do it now if he wanted to.
Vegeta apparently unlocked it but doesn’t use it due to the drawbacks, so he decided to perfect SS1 and SS2 and later on SSB
Vegeta seems like the type who would go SS3 regardless of practicality, just to prove that he could. He did so for SS1 grade 2 after all. And his Final Flash is another example of him going all out just to test the limits of his power, regardless of it being an optimal use case. And there's being a cocky bastard, his signature trait, exemplified by letting Cell transform into perfect Cell, and ultra ego
I remember in Super when he saw Future Trunks convert into the muscled form again, he looked at it with contempt. Seems to me Vegeta is more into speed, running and dodging then hitting with high energy blasts. He probably sees SSJ3 as that, strength that sacrifices speed, aside from being an energy (and thus, maybe a life-force) hog.
The reason because the animators don't want to draw that much hair reason why radditz die so early and they made goku gave a gohan got a hair cut because his was getting too long
Where was that said?
@@GeteMachine That actually might be very true I won't say forsure, that's why SSJ3 was barley used Toryiama actually said before in an interview/maybe an article I saw it.... Not to sure honestly I just remember seeing that somewhere a long time ago that it was stated he got tired of drawing all the hair.
@@GeteMachine dude they barely wanted to color goku hair that's the reason goku became a super saiyan
@@GoofyPoptart dude the only reason why goku turn into a super saiyan was because toriyama wanted to take pressure of his assistants/editors for coloring the black in goku hair
Why didnt Gogeta/Vegito ever go SSJ3
Because it takes too much stamina and shorten the time of their fusion.
@@joeysullivanTM Exactly it pointless at this point since god ki is now the next thing for Vegito & gogeta ^^
@@herculesburgess6773 plus nobody mastered ssj3 Yet. Goku even said it still takes too much stamina to use in the tournament of power
I personaly believe that you need to have a tail in order to use Super Saiyan 3 perfectly.
Really love these videos about Dragon Ball Z love it keep up the great work👍
Why tail
The dream collaboration 💪
It doesn’t matter how much you master a form, it will never outclass the next tier form. Especially when you take into account that Goku and Vegeta are about the same in base strength.
I know it's often considered useless but situational is arguably more accurate. Given it's forcing the saiyan to really "dig deep" into their bodies to draw out that ki and channel that large reservoir at once; a power that could wipe Buu out in a single blast potentially, I would say it was worth having if you needed that push to finish something off of that power level. It's like a Super Saiyan equivalent of a Kaio-Ken multiplier for your stats. You're considerably overclocking your ki to its maximum as a SSJ for that final push. I feel that's something that needs to be considered. Vegeta, I guess, would prefer to drag out fights, humiliating his opponents before finishing them so a form that's just an overclocking of the SSJ form up to that point isn't his style. Out of universe, new opponents require a new tier of power so, depending on the continuity be it GT or Super, Vegeta is going either SSJ4 or "Ultra Ego" or SSJGSS making SSJ3 obsolete and not worth using given the drawbacks if it can't kill the opponent in one short round of attacks or just one singular blast.
Even tho it's not the strongest ssj from anymore I still want Vegeta to unlock it
He’s beyond that bro he can use it let’s be real but at this point makes no sense
@@Blasian_guy who cares, it would be cool to see
@@Blasian_guy Especially if he has ultra ego,ssj god, ssjb & ssjbe^^
He peaked at the Cell Games because after Goku's death he lost his motivation to continue with his training. It's one reason Vegeta was so agitated with Gohan. Gohan who should've had the motivation (taking over the role of protector) to continue his training did not. If Vegeta had not stopped training I believe he would have achieved the form because he wouldn't have known about the massive drawbacks beforehand.
good thing him and Broly has it in DBZ Raging Blast 2 W!
Because he couldn't yell for 3 minutes straight.
I always assumed one of two reasons Vegeta didn't go SS3. The first is what you were talking about, about Vegeta seeing the weaknesses. The other was maybe there was something about going SS3 that Vegeta didn't have the potential for. We do see little things that Goku can do that Vegeta never learns (For example, Vegeta never mastered Super Saiyan form the way Goku and Gohan did). It's possible that Vegeta did try and couldn't reach the form the same way Goku did. And if that was the case, it would make sense why he didn't ever talk about it.
Of course, it's all hypothetical.
Vegeta mastered ssj after his second time in the time chamber look at the manga in pay attention to how Vegeta in trunks look during the cell games. also he literally stayed in ssj the whole time he was Majin Vegeta so that’s proof there that Vegeta already mastered super saiyan you have to master it to unlock ssj2 except for Caulifa goofy self 😆
@@brizzy5star You can also argue it was Babidi's magic that made him a permanent Super Saiyan as well though. I don't think it was ever stated specifically why he was Super Saiyan constantly as Maajin Vegeta, unless you have some proof for your claim.
I love both these guys so much!!! Thanks for the the awesome video
I feel like, no matter his reasons for not using it, he should at least learn how to do it(if he hasn't already).
I doubt we'll ever get it, but if we got an Arc where they are unable to use God Ki, then having a Mastered Version of SSJ3 would be a huge asset.
I also think that the "My Bulma" scene could've been even better if Vegeta went SSJ3.
It could've been the first and only time we see him use it in the official story.
It was a major missed opportunity not having Vegeta go SS3 in battle of gods. It was the perfect set up and would have made sense.
@@R.E.factor But can he put it off is the real question base on how long it took for goku to show his ssj3 to babiadi & majin boo.
@@herculesburgess6773 yea, easily. Goku later in the Buu saga transformed into SS3 extremely quickly. Even going from base straight to SS3 at one point.
3:12 Geekdom wtf are you doing 😂😂😂
Personally for me I always figured that Vegeta knew how to go Super Saiyan 3 due to the drawbacks of that form I believe that's why he never took and the fact that Super Saiyan God happen in Super Saiyan blue and those forms severely out class Super Saiyan 3 so it's no point
So that's what Geekdom looks like... Tell me why he looks he looks exactly like I imagined he would? EXACTLY. Like, to the point to where even the hat and the beard is something I imagined.
My theory is that Vegeta was just tired of being outdone by Goku at the end of DBZ. He even admitted that Goku was better than him, which are the last words a proud character like him would say unless he had given up trying to become the best. So thats why he didnt try to achieve Ssj3 in my opinion. And when DBS started he saw there was a way to become a Super Saiyan God and was able to compete with Goku on equal footing again without falling behind which usually was the case in DBZ.
9:25 That would happen if things made sense in DBS, since that Goku can be killed with one hit by DBZ Goku because in DBS if Goku doesn't keep his guard up he can be killed by any normal weapon. In DBS Goku can be scratched by bullets if he is not completely focused, which is almost always his state in DBS, unlike when he was a kid, and people were shooting at him when he thought someone was throwing marbles at him, or when he entered some house with his guard completely down he received the full force of an ax to his head, and the ax broke off his head into pieces. In DBS Goku was shot by a regular laser from a small ring, was mortally wounded while being transformed into a Super Saiyan Blue, things that would never happen to DBZ Goku.
I thought SSJ3 was so cool I wish they'd have used it More. I loved the Build up to the Transformation too. I mean Goku Generating so much Power that He was shaking the entire planet was awesome.
To of my favorite people on this one shout out to Mike and geekdom I fucks with u both
I honestly think that Vegeta knew cause remember after that blue had a problem where if u transform 1 and then do it against it's weaker but anime to
I think the story has much to do with it. Vegeta essentially drops his rivalry with Goku when he sees his fight with Kid Buu. He’s not chasing Goku anymore. So he trains for himself. There’s no need to do what Goku does. Just do what you can and be happy with your family. So by the end of Z, Vegeta wasn’t even interested in tournaments until Goku told him someone besides them would be as strong. Then, in GT, Vegeta trained not for battle, but for himself. He didn’t even go on a quest, but sent Trunks and Goten 😂. He was a changed man, or a changed Saiyan if you want to say. People change you know? And he outgrew the desire to just be the best or be better than Goku. He didn’t care about that, but wanted to be the best husband and father. He even fell in love with Earth and wanted to protect the people of Earth. It was a character change more so than he “couldn’t” achieve it. He…didn’t want to!
I love how seriously this is all taken. Especially with the disclaimer of shorts creating "more disinformation" 😂