Matt's Latin vs French example is spot on because linguistic evolution works very similarly to Evolution. You don't have one species just popping out of another species, speciation occurs slowly. When two Latin speaking groups move off into different areas, the Language changes independently over time and eventually, when they come back together, they can't understand each other anymore and we have two new languages. In fact, we still see this. Ex: English in England vs American English.
The fact that he views races and ethnicities as different species says a lot about his worldview. It’s horrifying how many people in America think similarly to Paul, here.
Also, for the sake of the context of your question, the 'more intelligent' individuals would have evolved just as much as the 'less intelligent' ones, because there would still be living individuals from both groups. Organisms don't require intelligence in order to evolve.
I love you guys, you are awesome! I'm far from intelligent and consider myself to be very average but wow, listening to some of these call ins are so painful... so painful.
It's impossible to tell a true theist/creationist from a troll or a victim of a troll when we know that organized religion is the biggest troll in the history of humankind.
Ya this guy is just open to accepting whatever his religion dishes out without actually researching it, but if a different ideology dishes something out he places it under heavy skepticism and scrutiny.
It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. But that's the theist mentality. They always wanna make atheism into something it isn't. Atheism is simply the non acceptance of theist god claims, period. Dishonest theists are always trying to portray atheism as a religion or an ideaology. They know we're right and it burns their asses!
When you look at some of the posts in this video's comment section, it's easy to see why some people think that humans evolve at different rates. People like taledarkside could do with being sterilized or at least prohibited from raising children.
Deggsey Dinners I used to engage with him but then I realised that he was either a very good troll or an extremely stupid person with racist tendencies and some misplaced arrogance. Basically a "complete moron"
Then call in. They catch flak about that constantly, so they often request that people call in with better arguments or have their pastors or favorite apologists call in...then even when people like Ray Comfort and Matt Slick call in, they get the same complaints. This should tell you something.
"I don't believe in evolution." "BTW, the Catholic Church accepts it." "Then I believe in evolution too..." *head hits desk* Talk about uncritical acceptence of authority... Spends a significant amount of time arguing against evolution, gets told his Church accepts it... immediately, without pause, states that he then agrees with it.
I love that the guy who at the outset agrees that his god has a chosen people thinks he has a rational reason to be opposed to racism. How can he possibly be rationally opposed to racism while believing there is a chosen race his god shows preference to?
***** No, I'm not confused at all. The "variations within a race" argument you are describing was originally originated by Richard Lewontin in 1972. He argued that if you take a certain characteristic, such as height for example, there was more variation within a race than between different races. His conclusions have since been rebutted and invalidated by several researchers on the basis that a "race" is not defined by variation in a single characteristic. It is nowadays referred to as "Lewontin's Fallacy". If one takes into account all the characteristics that are normally considered as determining race, one finds that individuals cluster naturally into their self-professed race-group and that in most cases this tallies with their genetic make-up. Again this is purely on the biological level. It is no excuse for any kind of racist mentality or discrimination.
Etienne Bonanno yes there is because if a race is genetically different and looks different than a particular race then it mean that 1 race is better than other race causing racing. Everyone who believes in evolution is racist. Evolution is scientific theory not scientific law.
Player One How does that mean one of the races is strictly better? And what exactly do you mean by “theory” and “law”? The way I understand it, a theory is the best thing an idea can be in science!
Player One your reasoning is confused and you have no idea of what "theory" and "law" mean in the scientific context. A scientific theory is the closest thing to an established fact that can be determined by science. A theory is a hypothesis for which all known evidence holds and which has never been disproven. A scientific law is simply a mathematical relation that governs various quantities. For,example, gravity is governed by an inverse-square law in which the gravitational attraction between two objects is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. As for a *theory* of gravity, the closest and most accepted one today is Einstein's theory of general relativity in which gravity arises out of distortions in the fabric of space-time caused by objects with mass. It is ironic that you and misinformed people like you equate evolution with racism. Indeed, when Darwin published his theory, it was considered to be.a big blow to slavery and the concept of race, for the simple reason that is showed that all humans are closely related and not created separately by a divine being and forever deemed by divine decree to be inferior. So no, evolution does not imply racism. It is very much the opposite. Evolution implies that we are all part of this amazing process of life that has been going on for billions of years, and we are not separate from it. All things alive are related to us, and us to them, each of them adapted to their environment, with no concept of "superior" or "inferior".
I was clarifying the point the caller was trying to make which was clear in my comment. What does "he was saying" mean where you come from? The caller also didn't understand each race evolved from a common ancestor and then later diverged. The two simple answers are (me speaking now) 1. He's actually saying evolution theory is racist as Atheism is just non belief in Gods not belief in evolution. 2. Differences in race and intelligence are subject to intense debate not connected to atheism.
I don't BELIEVE in evolution. I KNOW from evidence that evolution is, as of know, the best way to understand life on this planet. If I can make a suggestion to this awesome show I am a big fan of, I would suggest trying to avoid saying things like "I believe that evolution etc etc", which may be misunderstood by some as a reinforcement to the idea that atheism is just another religion, science just another faith etc.
Agreed not to mention that in that regard every single person within the same family is slightly different from their siblings and parents so you could go futher and say by the logic of the person you were replying to that everyone in the same family are different sub species.
+Avatar Adam I'm an atheist (ex-Catholic). I don't think that the caller was necessarily 'racist'. I just think that he was very confused about evolution and specifically about human evolution (even though he claimed to accept evolution); and he was confused by the mantra that many believing monotheists like to chant (that there is no basis for morality without god). That is false...as human morality is both biologically evolved and culturally modified..... and the only basis we need for morality is the understanding that we want to live in a society where others treat us as we would like to be treated - with respect for our basic humanity and autonomy as individuals - and so we in turn must be willing to reciprocate by treating others with the same respect which we would like for ourselves. There is no logical 'need' for there to be a god for that. And so we do not need a god to be able to recognize that we should treat others fairly regardless of skin, hair and eye colour, hair texture and facial features....because we all want others to treat us fairly regardless of our own features.
+stevytube I completely forgot about this video. Ironically, I am an atheist now. I realized that if there is a god that all the facts should point toward it. Unfortunately (or fortunately), I've not found any good evidence for a god and have found good reasons to not believe in one. Now I'm a pretty vocal atheist, which is really weird compared to how I thought 8 months ago.
I think they could have done a better job of acknowledging that what the guy is getting at is that the different human races evolved at different times. It then becomes a simple matter of explaining that the changes involved were a response to differing environment and not some kind of generalised time depended 'upgrade' to the species. I.e. Different does not equal better or worse.
My testimony of Rebirth & being Baptized by the Holy Spirit: May 18th 2012 - While listening to a song that glorifies the Kingdom to come. I heard a knock at the door. So I left the song on repeat and went to go answer the door. When, Lo and behold, my 3rd lunar eye opened while shaking a friend's hand, as he entered. I told them immediately (another visitor came in behind him), that “my third eye just opened up!, I gotta go pray, quick!, grab my prayer rug.” One of them grabbed my prayer rug, while I asked the other if he could see me third eye on my face! No, he didn't see anything, he replied. I called it a lunar eye, not because it opens sideways.(). , but because the very air itself started to glow with a pale moonlight tint to it, like a silver emerald gloomy glow. I could see waves in the air, and my visitors were almost see through, the weren't as solid as they looked with my regular eyes, as if the waves in the air appeared to be moving in them, as well. Then, I discovered that I could blink with it, it was like a big plant, flower shaped eye on a stem, in the middle of my head and I was actually seeing clear through my skull. Praise the Lord!, I had a brand new, fully working body part, it was amazing to feel it. This was the great mystery of mankind, the third eye! The view is like a windshield, but round, compared to the smallness of the sight of the normal two eyes, which were like little side-view mirrors, one naturally focused on the windshield. And it feels like a flower, because it opens sideways and its kind of shaped like a flower. As I prepared my prayer rug, I tried to describe what I was seeing to my visitors. I didn't blink with it more than 3 or 4 times, it felt like I was giving myself a headache when I was trying to blink, it was way more comfortable to just not blink with it and leave it open. I set up the prayer rug, while trying to share what I was seeing and how it felt to my guests. Like being in glowing water or subtle clouds making the air waves visible. Now, once I stepped on the prayer rug to pray, I faced east and my solar eye opened up! It opened sideways just like the lunar eye, from seemingly the same location as the lunar eye, like an eye within an eye (but opening sideways). Praise the Lord! All I saw was orange light!, it opened all the way up, like the sun everywhere and the eyelids seem to open so wide that they weren't there anymore. Neither were my visitors, my apartment, nor my surroundings, were visible to me anymore. All was just bright orange like the cherry of a cigarette or the sun up close, yet not blinding... Then in an instant, a cloud of different color lights seemed to gather me up as a deep wind came into me. Before I knew it, the clouds formed a Lion made of Light and I spread my arms out like they were wings, as if on impulse! All the while, taking huge cosmic breaths, as the cleft located up in the palate of my mouth split asunder (the line along the roof of my mouth), the cosmic winds and powers issued through it. An Angelic Lion made of Light was raising me up through the heavens as I continued to breathe what seemed to be the cosmos, at the same time. I could see and feel the stars moving through me and around about me at cosmic speeds, I perceived it all flowing through me as we flew with each amazing breath! We arrived and I sensed many loved ones there, many many loved ones, ancient real everlasting loved ones. It was heaven, and there, I was like a brand new baby, like the Lion just birthed me when we landed. I felt a symbiotic relationship to the Lion as it cared for me when we arrived, as if it were responsible for me like a mother lion to a cub, I felt when the Lion breathed and mimicked her. As if attached by the umbilical cord, I consumed from it, absorbing the Lion's power through breathing its light as I sat in its bosom. While inhaling I felt power of expanding awareness, like Christ consciousness and exhaling I felt the awesome strength of the Lion, which was almost intoxicating, because it was so powerful. Just then, I remember a scripture instantly and began to make sure that I was breathing in more than I was breathing out. So that “Man would consume the Lion” and be blessed, and the Lion would not consume the Man. Now before I knew, I had absorbed all the Lion's energy, while praising God, to be in Heaven and asking for Mercy and Grace, during my inhales. I was like a child all over again, feeling love from every direction. I was learning the basics of breathing with cosmic breath (light and air), and still gaining strength, I could sense all the love emanating from the Beloveds from every direction, the same as the Light! Praise the Lord!, there's so much power to be felt, while bowing and praying in what seemed to be the 7th Heaven. Then I was translated up higher, where the entire Universe was oscillating through me. Galaxies, stars and blackness of outer-space. I couldn't tell which little galaxy was ours, let alone, where the Sun was. There was so much peace and outrageous power coursing through me. Like a torsion field, all of space, circulated around and through me. No prayer rug, just galaxies, nebulae and the dark matter of space. This was what Enoch meant about staring into the face of eternity, this had to be the tenth heaven! Then, I was translated again back to the Kingdom of Light, like a child or a new born Angel, I became aware of my prayer rug glowing, along with myself amidst all the light and glory, but it seemed like being out on the land and in the open air of Heaven. As if I was on top of a holy mountain, humbleness kept me from getting up from my prayer rug or looking around to explore the environment, I felt so much power that I could surely have flew, or so I felt. But I remained there, just breathing and saying prayers and thanks and praises, the entire time. All for the Most High God. Telepathically sensing that all the vastness was being given to me and that the power that I was being given to possess was of God's glory, vast and far reaching. The air, I could actually see, it was like sky bluish waves of light, upon light, like being under water. I was physically on my prayer rug the entire time, it was glowing, along with myself. This had to be the heavenly kingdom that was promised to our ancient forefathers, I thought, I was so amazed, so rejuvenated and so full of praise. “I was blessed so much to have made it!”, I thought to myself while Glorifying God, and believe me, I didn't plan to or want to come back here. I was like an Angelic Superhero Prayer Warrior of cosmic proportions up there, really! I know what syzgetic means because of this experience now, I was somehow macro-cosmic in being or presence by rising up to the Lord. Afterward, I was translated back to my living room, as the cosmic breath subsided and the solar eye closed, but I still drank of some liquid after the vision was over, some call it Lion's Milk, it was the legendary Living Water. It poured down my throat from somewhere in my head, for the rest of the evening. I had to tilt my head back like drinking a baby bottle. My company that had came to visit me, ended up staying the whole evening, listening to me describe my ascension experience. They were more scared than happy to hear about it, because of their sins, so I encouraged them and told them to let it strengthen their faith. Oh, by the way, I'm African American and the true Tribe of Judah is in my blood. America has been supporting modern day Revelation 2:9/3:9 Israel, rather than the true Hebrews. Our skin tone is still painted on the wall, making mud bricks, in glyphs around Egypt, from before we left the area. Now we have the Son of Man , who is said to return a the Lion of Judah occurring back in 2012. You guys are 3 years off course. Consider me a Light House, but you're way out there at high sea, waves smashing, winds tearing...I am only a Light for you. Every man must walk in his "own shins."
Matt and Jen, for the first time I have to take exception to your "Race is a Social Construct." That is absolutely NOT true. 'Race' is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, and/or social affiliation. Likewise, "skin tone" is also NOT a "social construct." A white man is not 'White' because we wish him to be. 'White,' 'Black,' 'Yellow,' and 'Red' are the colors we use to describe the outward physical marker which identifies those of different races. I think both of you are bowing to the 'god' of Political Correctness on this one.
Chad Kalinowski These differences can even be quite important to know: Different races have different susceptibility to certain diseases, so it helps in medical care to know your race. To say race is a social construct is sort of like saying sex is a social construct. Sure, we have silly socially-constructed ideas attached to both of these things, but there are also real, measurable differences. Nobody is saying that one race is smarter or stronger or otherwise better than another, but to say races are just social constructs is, frankly, ridiculous.
Chad Kalinowski Let me clarify: It might be the case, in the future, that we figure out that one race is, on average, stronger or smarter than another. But the differences would be small, and would likely change over time anyway. Nobody, today, could honestly claim that. It would also only be an average, in any case. Saying that one race is stronger than another would be like saying that women live longer than men. It is true that, on average, women in a given population live longer than the men of that population; but to drop the part about averages is to generalize the statement to a point at which it no longer holds. Not all women live longer than all men; not even most women live longer than most men. It only shows up in averages of large data-sets. My primary point with that line was “better”, as in, “I can do something better, therefore I deserve special treatment”. I could probably have phrased it better. (Heh) (Also, I don't think creationism says any such thing about everyone being made the same, despite what some apologists claim. As they pointed out in the video, Yahweh has a “chosen people”. If that isn't an inequality in creation, I don't know what the term means.)
"each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics." Is the definition of race. Distinct physical characteristics is true, yes, but that this means anything other than a person with dark skin's ancestors developed in an area that was exposed to a lot of sunlight is erroneous. Historical, cultural, religious, linguistic and like characteristics are SOCIAL constructs. You don't even understand that you're proving your own point wrong.Anatomically, there is no difference between races of humans. Genetically, there are negligible differences between humans. Everything else is borne socially.
Susceptibility to certain diseases is, again, just because the race in question adapted to a certain environment, an environment which has inevitably changed over time. This doesn't mean there are any substantial genetic differences between humans. Saying race is a social construct is perfectly correct: because the things were often associate with race are actually things that have developed socially.
Pete Mangum You can take all the exception you want but you're still an idiot because you are completely wrong. Race, as it is commonly understood, is a genetically unique group of people with distinctive and unique characteristics. The only problem is that, even though most people believe the term denotes genetic differences, it has no basis in fact. It IS a social construct and not a term that has any meaning in the science of genetics. In other words it is not a concept recognized by geneticists and that is because there is more genetic diversity within these so called racial groups then there exists between the groups themselves... which of course puts the lie to the common understanding of the term. In other words, race, as it is commonly understood, has no basis in genetic fact. It is a human fantasy... a social constuct. Now, for all you folks who don 't have a clue about the facts and what I just stated, go ahead and argue your ignorant asses off about this.
Matt was trying to make him think. I could almost smell something burning. This idea of two humans made all of us is how we got where we are with all the misunderstandings and WAR. FML...
There are no separate races, that was the whole point! That's what racism is, the belief that there are separate human races. There isn't enough genetic variance between the so called human races to indicate separate and distinct races. Racism is based on the false belief their are separate human races. What you are talking about is cultural differences that having nothing to do with Race.
Max Gold No, racism is just a negative attitude toward a race. There are enough genetic differences for races to exist because races are just different groups of people that have more DNA in common with each other than the other races. The cultural differences sometimes are connected to race, sometimes not.
Max Gold why then are kids of the same overall appearance as their parents? DNA controls that and the genes that determine your apparent race make up about 0.1% of your total genes. Races are not sub-species of homo sapien however, thats all it is. Be careful of reading meaning into that.
We are all modern humans (or Homo sapiens if you want to be technical ). That's it. Maybe if everyone stayed on their respective continents (once the initial migrations took place) in a million years or so we could have evolved to some different subspecies but that won't happen now.
Actually races are a thing - it's no "social construct" and it's a fact. Antropologically, paleoantropologically and genetically. So weird how americans and europenians are having that much of a problem just acknowleging it. Stating the obvious is not making you a racist.
Who 'THEY'? Next, ok, ethnicities - so? What actually changed? Genetical/phenotipical differencies vanished? Or maybe history of "ethnicity" genesis suddenly changed and all the different rac... err... "ethnicities" came out from africa simultaneousely once and bla-bla-bla? That is ridiculous. I am russian, my upbringing is such that I just don't get what's the fuss. I've learnt that there are about 5 races at the moment and YES one of them is called "negroids", YES black africans are called "negroes", no I don't get why the hell such a term as "afro-american" appeared (ok, I KIND OF get why, but it's a cultural artifact of USA and nothing universal here). Bottomline - RACES exists. It's a fact. ETHNICITIES exists. It's a fact as well. We have an antropologists who use both terms with different meanings and it's by no means a problem (no, I'm not ready to name a difference). I just don't get which letter of the word "race" is THAT universally offending that each and every person in the world must forget the term altogether.
Artem Ponomarev The theory of 5 races is widely regarded as scientifically inaccurate. The fact that you hold on to this notion reveals you as a racist in every sense of the word, regardless of which qualities you may or may not apply to which alleged human race. You cannot identify e.g. African-Americans as a biological, unique "race" because there has been so much "interracial" exchange of genetic material (same goes for all people). Like with nations, there are trends and tendencies, both physically and genetically. But there is NO definite categorization of "race A, B, C etc". For example saying all Russians have huge foreheads and ugly noses is like saying all Russians drink vodka. It's a strong tendency among that group of people yet no intrinsic characteristic or rule. There are Russians who drink no vodka and there are Italians (most certainly) who do drink vodka. There is no such thing as "race X" and there is no such thing as "nationality X". Both are human constructs to help some people's brains categorize the world more easily, however they bear no actual merit in science.
What you describe is merely a trend in western science. I tell you, in russian antropological school there is no such problem. So, your point is that races dont't exist because of... metisation??? So what? Nations? Nations are a social-cultural construct, these may or may not depend heavily on race or ethnicity (usually do, historically). Why did you even came to discuss nations in context of races? Just to remember that russians (which I am) have "stupid foreheads" and "drink vodka"? Wow, how very intelligent of you. Next, I am a racist? Because I SEE races? Because I KNOW what those are? Get a brain! Racism is a DISCRIMINATION issue, not a DIFFERENTIATION issue! It's like saying that "gender is not a thing! It's just a term that was created in olden days to discriminate half of society. But now all kind of homosexual/transsexual activities are a norm, any person has equal rights in any other aspect so it's time to forget these... ugly defenitions of 'men' or 'women' - we're all humans! Hurray!" But you know what, eny person wih a brain will just naturally see that girls are not a boys. And you know what? It's ok. Let them have the same rights, let them have the same options, but stop playing blind - it makes you look... strange.
Artem Ponomarev Well I guess that goes to prove that Western science is superior to Russian science in that regard, then. And I'm not even a Western scientist, so don't call me biased, which is, I suspect, what you are by the way. The only reason you adhere to Russian science is because you are Russian and it makes you feel like you belong. And on a side note, it was British and German "scientists" who back in the 19th century came up with the whole concept of race theory. So if anything, your so called Russian anthropological school uses outdated Western science. The reason your gender analogy fails is because the to sexes are distinct, observable categories across most species. The term "race" implies that there is such a category among the same species of human when in fact that is just not the case (anymore). That doesn't mean you can't have dark skin or light skin or additional wrinkles on your eyelids etc. yet there is no useful or accurate way to group these criteria into distinct classes. To do so is intellectually dishonest, encourages racial thinking and is therefore racist.
I was just redacted from this site for copyright infringement. I have not a clue why. I provided research sources on request but that is not a copyright infringement. There was a vibrant and contemporary discourse that is now gone at least for me and now I am viewing year old posts.
I grew up playing RPGs. To me humans, dwarves and elves are races. Not africans, chinese and mexicans. And the best part? No need for any gods either. Other than to cast actual healing spells. Theists live in a fantasy world minus all the cool stuff.
I didn't say that, of course there is a distinction. I'm talking about racism, and the notion of "favored races" which doesn't apply in the sense that people think it does.
So what Paul here was basing his thoughts on was something i have encountered a number of times with theists. The rationale - if we can call it that - is that some races are inferior to others, and therefore if you believe in evolution you are agreeing that those inferior races evolved slower than the superior races, which makes you racist. As i tried to explain to those people, they're the ones assuming some races are inferior, not evolution or those who believe in the theory of evolution, which means they're actually the racist ones - invariably this goes over their heads like it did with Paul. By the way, does anyone care to guess which race these people consider inferior and which they consider superior? I give you one shot to guess. Hint: people saying this think theirs is the superior race, and by the way, they're white.
"Although the existing races of man differ in many respects, as in colour, hair, shape of skull, proportions of the body, &c., yet if their whole structure be taken into consideration they are found to resemble each other closely in a multitude of points. Many of these are of so unimportant or of so singular a nature, that it is extremely improbable that they should have been independently acquired by aboriginally distinct species or races." - The Descent of Man; Charles Darwin; 1871
the problem with calling them a race is the genetic differences are based more on where they live influencing their group then on any real difference in the genetic code.
That still depends very heavily on the nurture aspect of behavior. In addition, this is only because we as a society have decided to punish a shitload of acts of aggression, even ones that aren't inherently harmful, as crimes. I'm not making a comment on whether this is good or not, but do you see my point?
“Morals are good, yes?” - -Depends on what you believe is morally good. If good morals are innate why are is their so much crime? What is the mechanism for natural selection that selects individuals morals?
Agreed 100% about equal rights and opportunities under the law etc., but race is NOT a social construct. There are physical differences that are consistent within racial groups, different susceptibilities to medical conditions etc. Labelling racial differences as "social constructs" is just plain wrong.
They did not in fact claim that different races have different characteristics and that some combination of races are better than others. They claimed that having offspring with people who are not closely related to you by blood, means a wider gene pool to choose from. This is the same as saying if two people genetically are predisposed for disease can pass down the same issues to their children, but if one is not predisposed to it, then there is a better chance of that not being handed down,
“…and a bold faced lie at worst.” “If nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with the stronger, she wishes even less that a superior race should intermingle with an inferior one; because in such cases all her efforts, throughout hundreds of thousands of years, to establish an evolutionary higher stage of being, may thus be rendered futile.”
In WWII the us occupied Japan for a short number of years and helped rebuild it’s infrastructure and left. Not go about enslaving the Japanese population. This person is a live example of how religion can warp a human being into an abominable creature.
That's not what I said at all. Belief and knowledge/truth are two very different things. A person can believe something and not know the truth of it. A person can believe something and claim to know the truth of it. A person can not believe something and not know the truth of it. A person can not believe something and claim to know the truth of it. A person can be theist or atheist and also be agnostic or gnostic at the same time.
It is a modern construct. The use of 'race' here is referring to ethnicity, and the varying differences that are mostly cosmetic within the human race, which is one species. Much like different breeds of dogs. All dog breeds can and reproduce with one another because they are of the same species. Offspring can have varying physical traits that are a mix of the parents, just like people, same 'race' or not. You can easily use the word 'breed' for race but instead we use 'race' for people.
Was your "troll" aimed at me? Or the poster I was replying to? If the latter you misposted. If it was meant for me - I have NO IDEA what you are talking about.
I didn't say, "Single point." I said 'single organism'. There is more to the context of the argument than just life. What was there before life? Does something exist if there is no intelligent life form to be there to observe, experience and report it? Also, what exactly is "nothing?" Can you tell me what nothing is? Define it for me, please. Something coming from nothing. I need to know what nothing is and how a creator creates something from nothing (in your definition). Is it magic?
When properly understood, evolution refutes racism. Before Darwin, people used typological thinking for living things, considering different plants and animals to be their distinct "kinds." This gave rise to a misleading conception of human races, in which different races are thought of as separate and distinct. Darwinism helps eliminate typological thinking and with it the basis for racism.
I said the same thing in both of my posts. There is no contradiction in my statements. I think we're at the end of the road here. I've explained it to the best of my ability.
No. Not directly, anyway. There are of course genetic predispositions to things like aggression, but there are so many ways of channeling this. I think it's a near-impossible stretch to link genetics to violations of somewhat arbitrary rules.
Na. It's more analogous to having a 1000 piece puzzle and forcing the pieces to fit although the really don't. It's not that there are missing links in the chain of evolution. It's that there is a missing chain.There is also no fossil evidence to back the evolved theory of evolution.
I hate how the caller is saying that people did not evolve equally or at the same rate. It's actually that we all migrated and adapted, over the years, to our environments to ensure high survival rates. We adapted differently is all. None of us evolved, or at least in the sense that he is talking about, slower or faster. People really need to learn the concept of acceptance.
To be fair, even though Matt agreed with the comment from the ditzy chick, he does go on to recognize real differences, and to make a good point that racism isn't defined by acknowledging differences, but in treating people differently because of them. 100,000 years, however, is NOT insignificant in evolutionary terms, certainly not when it comes to the relatively slight but nonetheless critical differences between the races. No, we didn't evolve "faster;" just differently. The girl is a zero.
The caller is not eloquent, but actually he has a point. Which is that a purely materialistic worldview has really no inherent opposition to racism. But he is not able to express that and so gets run into the ground.
In a modern society, yes, they are very much superficial when we are talking about looks. Furthermore, all races are, indeed, equal. If you separate a population into individuals, you will have inequality in certain areas, but that does not make the population or race any better or worse than another. My skinny, pointed nose may be different from a flat, wide nose....but it is functionally the same, and neither aids or hinders survival in modern society.
(part 2) that a set of random mutations occur that produces (e.g.) stronger muscles, area C, a "grippier" tail...etc. As with area A having these random phenotypes means that you are better able to pass on your genes than not having them (access to food/escape from predators...etc). These events happen again and again over millions of years. random mutations are "naturally selected" (i.e. just so happen to give a breeding advantage) or not (give no advantage). equal advantage phenotypes = 50/50.
But why are you warning us? I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, ‘If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?’ ‘No,’ said the priest, ‘not if you did not know. ’‘Then why,’ asked the Eskimo earnestly, ‘did you tell me?’ Basically by warning us about hell and sin, you're the one getting people sent to eternal torture.
Basing morality on humanism isn't arbitrary, even if god exsists then basing morality on what it thinks is fundamentally arbitrary. If Tiberius ceaser fines you for eating pastries it's arbitrary, if god throws you into hell for taking his name in vain; it's arbitrary.
-As equally religious as the Christians of the north. In fact, the "Southern gentleman" used christianity as a means to KEEP their slaves. So clearly the real issue isn't if they had a religion or not.
I'd really like to see you answer MrDureans question "Do humans have some sort of universal, innate value?" "If so , why?" Cherry picking questions is what cowards do. If you are not a coward prove it! Answer the question!
It matters from an atheists perspective because we MAKE the value of our lives. We don't pretend that there's a fictional font that chooses for us, what is right and what is wrong. We don't pretend that we can find forgiveness in the eyes of a fictional supervisor when we've done wrong. We know that THIS life is all that matters, and how we treat each other IS all that matters.
That's actually not even close to what it is, and since sexism (sexual harassment especially) and other forms of social bigotry seem to be a problem in certain sectors of the atheist community, Atheism+ is most definitely a welcome idea. But by all means, keep going. You're making a better case for Atheism+ than I ever could. Tell Thunderf00t to keep ranting as well.
As a latino, to hear that the catholic spain didnt have a "race issue" while conquering central- and southamerica, is outrageous... this caller really should read about how the spanish conquerors dealt with the new worlds natives.
Agnosticism isn't mutually exclusive with atheism. One is a stance of knowledge the other is about belief. You can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist. Apatheist is just a form of atheism.
Says racism is bad, ends up being racist.
:D
Shocker!!
He called to say atheists are racist, but defends racism against atheists that are against racism? This person is obviously confused.
I love their ability to deflate a lengthy argument from a caller just by asking "why do you think that"
Matt's Latin vs French example is spot on because linguistic evolution works very similarly to Evolution. You don't have one species just popping out of another species, speciation occurs slowly. When two Latin speaking groups move off into different areas, the Language changes independently over time and eventually, when they come back together, they can't understand each other anymore and we have two new languages. In fact, we still see this. Ex: English in England vs American English.
The fact that he views races and ethnicities as different species says a lot about his worldview. It’s horrifying how many people in America think similarly to Paul, here.
It’s horrifying you think it’s purely an American thing.
@jamescarpenter7161 you're right, it's not PURELY an American thing, but America does have the monopoly on nonsense like this
How is this caller able to make a phonecall? " How can Matt and Jen live inside my phone? "
Also, for the sake of the context of your question, the 'more intelligent' individuals would have evolved just as much as the 'less intelligent' ones, because there would still be living individuals from both groups. Organisms don't require intelligence in order to evolve.
This is like free education. I should call in and have them do my biology homework.
I love you guys, you are awesome! I'm far from intelligent and consider myself to be very average but wow, listening to some of these call ins are so painful... so painful.
If listening to them makes you feel that way then maybe you're more intelligent than you give yourself credit for.
It's impossible to tell a true theist/creationist from a troll or a victim of a troll when we know that organized religion is the biggest troll in the history of humankind.
I'm an atheist and a racist.
I hate most races from the 100m sprint all the way to the marathon!
I am, however, a fan of the sack and 3 legged race.
Dan Angus Wrong kind of race, you numbskull.
I've always been partial to Egg and spoon.
Ya this guy is just open to accepting whatever his religion dishes out without actually researching it, but if a different ideology dishes something out he places it under heavy skepticism and scrutiny.
I still don't see what atheism has to do with racism
It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. But that's the theist mentality. They always wanna make atheism into something it isn't. Atheism is simply the non acceptance of theist god claims, period. Dishonest theists are always trying to portray atheism as a religion or an ideaology.
They know we're right and it burns their asses!
Supremacy. Supremacy.
Cootabux
Supremacy. Supremacy. JUST LIKE RACISTS.
You have no clue.
I am truly baffled by the inane rationalizations from people. A + B = Four Salamanders.
"I don't even believe in evolution!"
"Are you aware that the Catholic Church accepts evolution?"
"Oh, well then I DO believe in evolution!"
*facepalm*
When you look at some of the posts in this video's comment section, it's easy to see why some people think that humans evolve at different rates. People like taledarkside could do with being sterilized or at least prohibited from raising children.
taledarkside is a complete moron.
Guy Parris I know that imbecile, I've wasted so much time arguing against him.
Deggsey Dinners
I used to engage with him but then I realised that he was either a very good troll or an extremely stupid person with racist tendencies and some misplaced arrogance. Basically a "complete moron"
Wow this was a childish ass comment.
I have to stop watching this show. These callers are making my IQ go down.
and giving me cancer!
Then call in. They catch flak about that constantly, so they often request that people call in with better arguments or have their pastors or favorite apologists call in...then even when people like Ray Comfort and Matt Slick call in, they get the same complaints. This should tell you something.
That dude made my eye twitch.
Believers tend to project their twisted/immoral programming onto non-believers....
at around 13:10 i love how long it takes the guy to think about an answer to the intentionally easy to answer question...
"I don't believe in evolution."
"BTW, the Catholic Church accepts it."
"Then I believe in evolution too..."
*head hits desk*
Talk about uncritical acceptence of authority... Spends a significant amount of time arguing against evolution, gets told his Church accepts it... immediately, without pause, states that he then agrees with it.
We didn't evolve by "chance". We evolved by what works.
Random mutation combined with natural selection...
I love that the guy who at the outset agrees that his god has a chosen people thinks he has a rational reason to be opposed to racism.
How can he possibly be rationally opposed to racism while believing there is a chosen race his god shows preference to?
" i just dont understand this evolution crap! "
That is exactly the problem.
I suspected something like that, that's why I asked him to explain himself - he didn't, he was just spinning one sentence over and over...
Oh boy, could you please bottle and sell your patience ;)
“Job” would be catchy name.
:D
When the Spaniards went to Mexico there was no racism? What? Not only does this guy need a course in evolution, he needs one in history.
***** No, I'm not confused at all. The "variations within a race" argument you are describing was originally originated by Richard Lewontin in 1972. He argued that if you take a certain characteristic, such as height for example, there was more variation within a race than between different races. His conclusions have since been rebutted and invalidated by several researchers on the basis that a "race" is not defined by variation in a single characteristic. It is nowadays referred to as "Lewontin's Fallacy". If one takes into account all the characteristics that are normally considered as determining race, one finds that individuals cluster naturally into their self-professed race-group and that in most cases this tallies with their genetic make-up. Again this is purely on the biological level. It is no excuse for any kind of racist mentality or discrimination.
Etienne Bonanno yes there is because if a race is genetically different and looks different than a particular race then it mean that 1 race is better than other race causing racing.
Everyone who believes in evolution is racist.
Evolution is scientific theory not scientific law.
Player One How does that mean one of the races is strictly better? And what exactly do you mean by “theory” and “law”? The way I understand it, a theory is the best thing an idea can be in science!
Player One your reasoning is confused and you have no idea of what "theory" and "law" mean in the scientific context. A scientific theory is the closest thing to an established fact that can be determined by science. A theory is a hypothesis for which all known evidence holds and which has never been disproven. A scientific law is simply a mathematical relation that governs various quantities. For,example, gravity is governed by an inverse-square law in which the gravitational attraction between two objects is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. As for a *theory* of gravity, the closest and most accepted one today is Einstein's theory of general relativity in which gravity arises out of distortions in the fabric of space-time caused by objects with mass.
It is ironic that you and misinformed people like you equate evolution with racism. Indeed, when Darwin published his theory, it was considered to be.a big blow to slavery and the concept of race, for the simple reason that is showed that all humans are closely related and not created separately by a divine being and forever deemed by divine decree to be inferior.
So no, evolution does not imply racism. It is very much the opposite. Evolution implies that we are all part of this amazing process of life that has been going on for billions of years, and we are not separate from it. All things alive are related to us, and us to them, each of them adapted to their environment, with no concept of "superior" or "inferior".
I was clarifying the point the caller was trying to make which was clear in my comment. What does "he was saying" mean where you come from? The caller also didn't understand each race evolved from a common ancestor and then later diverged.
The two simple answers are (me speaking now) 1. He's actually saying evolution theory is racist as Atheism is just non belief in Gods not belief in evolution. 2. Differences in race and intelligence are subject to intense debate not connected to atheism.
Matt is the most patient man on earth.
That was very painful to hear!
I don't BELIEVE in evolution. I KNOW from evidence that evolution is, as of know, the best way to understand life on this planet. If I can make a suggestion to this awesome show I am a big fan of, I would suggest trying to avoid saying things like "I believe that evolution etc etc", which may be misunderstood by some as a reinforcement to the idea that atheism is just another religion, science just another faith etc.
Agreed not to mention that in that regard every single person within the same family is slightly different from their siblings and parents so you could go futher and say by the logic of the person you were replying to that everyone in the same family are different sub species.
This makes me feel bad about being a Catholic. For reference, most Catholics accept evolution and are not racists.
Avatar Adam Every group, even atheists, have our their ignorant assholes.
+Avatar Adam I'm an atheist (ex-Catholic). I don't think that the caller was necessarily 'racist'. I just think that he was very confused about evolution and specifically about human evolution (even though he claimed to accept evolution); and he was confused by the mantra that many believing monotheists like to chant (that there is no basis for morality without god). That is false...as human morality is both biologically evolved and culturally modified..... and the only basis we need for morality is the understanding that we want to live in a society where others treat us as we would like to be treated - with respect for our basic humanity and autonomy as individuals - and so we in turn must be willing to reciprocate by treating others with the same respect which we would like for ourselves. There is no logical 'need' for there to be a god for that. And so we do not need a god to be able to recognize that we should treat others fairly regardless of skin, hair and eye colour, hair texture and facial features....because we all want others to treat us fairly regardless of our own features.
+stevytube I completely forgot about this video. Ironically, I am an atheist now. I realized that if there is a god that all the facts should point toward it. Unfortunately (or fortunately), I've not found any good evidence for a god and have found good reasons to not believe in one. Now I'm a pretty vocal atheist, which is really weird compared to how I thought 8 months ago.
I think they could have done a better job of acknowledging that what the guy is getting at is that the different human races evolved at different times. It then becomes a simple matter of explaining that the changes involved were a response to differing environment and not some kind of generalised time depended 'upgrade' to the species. I.e. Different does not equal better or worse.
"i just dont understand this evolution"
thank you, you are now the most honest creationist i have ever met
YES, I am in complete agreement. I wish more people would understand that.
Matt seems to be a little hypocritical in that he interrupts people, but he doesn't let people interrupt him.
My testimony of Rebirth & being Baptized by the Holy Spirit:
May 18th 2012 - While listening to a song that glorifies the Kingdom to come. I heard a knock at the door. So I left the song on repeat and went to go answer the door. When, Lo and behold, my 3rd lunar eye opened while shaking a friend's hand, as he entered. I told them immediately (another visitor came in behind him), that “my third eye just opened up!, I gotta go pray, quick!, grab my prayer rug.” One of them grabbed my prayer rug, while I asked the other if he could see me third eye on my face! No, he didn't see anything, he replied. I called it a lunar eye, not because it opens sideways.(). , but because the very air itself started to glow with a pale moonlight tint to it, like a silver emerald gloomy glow. I could see waves in the air, and my visitors were almost see through, the weren't as solid as they looked with my regular eyes, as if the waves in the air appeared to be moving in them, as well. Then, I discovered that I could blink with it, it was like a big plant, flower shaped eye on a stem, in the middle of my head and I was actually seeing clear through my skull. Praise the Lord!, I had a brand new, fully working body part, it was amazing to feel it. This was the great mystery of mankind, the third eye! The view is like a windshield, but round, compared to the smallness of the sight of the normal two eyes, which were like little side-view mirrors, one naturally focused on the windshield. And it feels like a flower, because it opens sideways and its kind of shaped like a flower. As I prepared my prayer rug, I tried to describe what I was seeing to my visitors. I didn't blink with it more than 3 or 4 times, it felt like I was giving myself a headache when I was trying to blink, it was way more comfortable to just not blink with it and leave it open. I set up the prayer rug, while trying to share what I was seeing and how it felt to my guests. Like being in glowing water or subtle clouds making the air waves visible.
Now, once I stepped on the prayer rug to pray, I faced east and my solar eye opened up! It opened sideways just like the lunar eye, from seemingly the same location as the lunar eye, like an eye within an eye (but opening sideways). Praise the Lord! All I saw was orange light!, it opened all the way up, like the sun everywhere and the eyelids seem to open so wide that they weren't there anymore. Neither were my visitors, my apartment, nor my surroundings, were visible to me anymore. All was just bright orange like the cherry of a cigarette or the sun up close, yet not blinding... Then in an instant, a cloud of different color lights seemed to gather me up as a deep wind came into me. Before I knew it, the clouds formed a Lion made of Light and I spread my arms out like they were wings, as if on impulse! All the while, taking huge cosmic breaths, as the cleft located up in the palate of my mouth split asunder (the line along the roof of my mouth), the cosmic winds and powers issued through it. An Angelic Lion made of Light was raising me up through the heavens as I continued to breathe what seemed to be the cosmos, at the same time. I could see and feel the stars moving through me and around about me at cosmic speeds, I perceived it all flowing through me as we flew with each amazing breath!
We arrived and I sensed many loved ones there, many many loved ones, ancient real everlasting loved ones. It was heaven, and there, I was like a brand new baby, like the Lion just birthed me when we landed. I felt a symbiotic relationship to the Lion as it cared for me when we arrived, as if it were responsible for me like a mother lion to a cub, I felt when the Lion breathed and mimicked her. As if attached by the umbilical cord, I consumed from it, absorbing the Lion's power through breathing its light as I sat in its bosom. While inhaling I felt power of expanding awareness, like Christ consciousness and exhaling I felt the awesome strength of the Lion, which was almost intoxicating, because it was so powerful. Just then, I remember a scripture instantly and began to make sure that I was breathing in more than I was breathing out. So that “Man would consume the Lion” and be blessed, and the Lion would not consume the Man. Now before I knew, I had absorbed all the Lion's energy, while praising God, to be in Heaven and asking for Mercy and Grace, during my inhales. I was like a child all over again, feeling love from every direction. I was learning the basics of breathing with cosmic breath (light and air), and still gaining strength, I could sense all the love emanating from the Beloveds from every direction, the same as the Light! Praise the Lord!, there's so much power to be felt, while bowing and praying in what seemed to be the 7th Heaven.
Then I was translated up higher, where the entire Universe was oscillating through me. Galaxies, stars and blackness of outer-space. I couldn't tell which little galaxy was ours, let alone, where the Sun was. There was so much peace and outrageous power coursing through me. Like a torsion field, all of space, circulated around and through me. No prayer rug, just galaxies, nebulae and the dark matter of space. This was what Enoch meant about staring into the face of eternity, this had to be the tenth heaven!
Then, I was translated again back to the Kingdom of Light, like a child or a new born Angel, I became aware of my prayer rug glowing, along with myself amidst all the light and glory, but it seemed like being out on the land and in the open air of Heaven. As if I was on top of a holy mountain, humbleness kept me from getting up from my prayer rug or looking around to explore the environment, I felt so much power that I could surely have flew, or so I felt. But I remained there, just breathing and saying prayers and thanks and praises, the entire time. All for the Most High God. Telepathically sensing that all the vastness was being given to me and that the power that I was being given to possess was of God's glory, vast and far reaching. The air, I could actually see, it was like sky bluish waves of light, upon light, like being under water.
I was physically on my prayer rug the entire time, it was glowing, along with myself. This had to be the heavenly kingdom that was promised to our ancient forefathers, I thought, I was so amazed, so rejuvenated and so full of praise. “I was blessed so much to have made it!”, I thought to myself while Glorifying God, and believe me, I didn't plan to or want to come back here. I was like an Angelic Superhero Prayer Warrior of cosmic proportions up there, really! I know what syzgetic means because of this experience now, I was somehow macro-cosmic in being or presence by rising up to the Lord.
Afterward, I was translated back to my living room, as the cosmic breath subsided and the solar eye closed, but I still drank of some liquid after the vision was over, some call it Lion's Milk, it was the legendary Living Water. It poured down my throat from somewhere in my head, for the rest of the evening. I had to tilt my head back like drinking a baby bottle.
My company that had came to visit me, ended up staying the whole evening, listening to me describe my ascension experience. They were more scared than happy to hear about it, because of their sins, so I encouraged them and told them to let it strengthen their faith. Oh, by the way, I'm African American and the true Tribe of Judah is in my blood. America has been supporting modern day Revelation 2:9/3:9 Israel, rather than the true Hebrews. Our skin tone is still painted on the wall, making mud bricks, in glyphs around Egypt, from before we left the area. Now we have the Son of Man , who is said to return a the Lion of Judah occurring back in 2012. You guys are 3 years off course. Consider me a Light House, but you're way out there at high sea, waves smashing, winds tearing...I am only a Light for you. Every man must walk in his "own shins."
Matt and Jen, for the first time I have to take exception to your "Race is a Social Construct." That is absolutely NOT true. 'Race' is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, and/or social affiliation. Likewise, "skin tone" is also NOT a "social construct." A white man is not 'White' because we wish him to be. 'White,' 'Black,' 'Yellow,' and 'Red' are the colors we use to describe the outward physical marker which identifies those of different races. I think both of you are bowing to the 'god' of Political Correctness on this one.
Chad Kalinowski These differences can even be quite important to know: Different races have different susceptibility to certain diseases, so it helps in medical care to know your race. To say race is a social construct is sort of like saying sex is a social construct. Sure, we have silly socially-constructed ideas attached to both of these things, but there are also real, measurable differences. Nobody is saying that one race is smarter or stronger or otherwise better than another, but to say races are just social constructs is, frankly, ridiculous.
Chad Kalinowski
Let me clarify: It might be the case, in the future, that we figure out that one race is, on average, stronger or smarter than another. But the differences would be small, and would likely change over time anyway. Nobody, today, could honestly claim that.
It would also only be an average, in any case. Saying that one race is stronger than another would be like saying that women live longer than men. It is true that, on average, women in a given population live longer than the men of that population; but to drop the part about averages is to generalize the statement to a point at which it no longer holds. Not all women live longer than all men; not even most women live longer than most men. It only shows up in averages of large data-sets.
My primary point with that line was “better”, as in, “I can do something better, therefore I deserve special treatment”. I could probably have phrased it better. (Heh)
(Also, I don't think creationism says any such thing about everyone being made the same, despite what some apologists claim. As they pointed out in the video, Yahweh has a “chosen people”. If that isn't an inequality in creation, I don't know what the term means.)
"each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics."
Is the definition of race. Distinct physical characteristics is true, yes, but that this means anything other than a person with dark skin's ancestors developed in an area that was exposed to a lot of sunlight is erroneous. Historical, cultural, religious, linguistic and like characteristics are SOCIAL constructs. You don't even understand that you're proving your own point wrong.Anatomically, there is no difference between races of humans. Genetically, there are negligible differences between humans. Everything else is borne socially.
Susceptibility to certain diseases is, again, just because the race in question adapted to a certain environment, an environment which has inevitably changed over time. This doesn't mean there are any substantial genetic differences between humans. Saying race is a social construct is perfectly correct: because the things were often associate with race are actually things that have developed socially.
Pete Mangum
You can take all the exception you want but you're still an idiot because you are completely wrong.
Race, as it is commonly understood, is a genetically unique group of people with distinctive and unique characteristics. The only problem is that, even though most people believe the term denotes genetic differences, it has no basis in fact. It IS a social construct and not a term that has any meaning in the science of genetics. In other words it is not a concept recognized by geneticists and that is because there is more genetic diversity within these so called racial groups then there exists between the groups themselves... which of course puts the lie to the common understanding of the term. In other words, race, as it is commonly understood, has no basis in genetic fact.
It is a human fantasy... a social constuct.
Now, for all you folks who don 't have a clue about the facts and what I just stated, go ahead and argue your ignorant asses off about this.
Matt was trying to make him think.
I could almost smell something burning. This idea of two humans made all of us is how we got where we are with all the misunderstandings and WAR.
FML...
They're just trying to avoid the possibility of behavioral differences between the races because it's not PC.
There are no separate races, that was the whole point! That's what racism is, the belief that there are separate human races. There isn't enough genetic variance between the so called human races to indicate separate and distinct races. Racism is based on the false belief their are separate human races. What you are talking about is cultural differences that having nothing to do with Race.
Max Gold
No, racism is just a negative attitude toward a race. There are enough genetic differences for races to exist because races are just different groups of people that have more DNA in common with each other than the other races. The cultural differences sometimes are connected to race, sometimes not.
Max Gold why then are kids of the same overall appearance as their parents? DNA controls that and the genes that determine your apparent race make up about 0.1% of your total genes. Races are not sub-species of homo sapien however, thats all it is. Be careful of reading meaning into that.
cyco phile Races could be considered sub-species. It depends on the definition of sub-species.
cyco phile No, it's true in humans as well. Like other species, we are divided into different populations.
We are all modern humans (or Homo sapiens if you want to be technical ). That's it. Maybe if everyone stayed on their respective continents (once the initial migrations took place) in a million years or so we could have evolved to some different subspecies but that won't happen now.
Actually races are a thing - it's no "social construct" and it's a fact. Antropologically, paleoantropologically and genetically. So weird how americans and europenians are having that much of a problem just acknowleging it. Stating the obvious is not making you a racist.
They're not races, they're ethnicities.
Who 'THEY'? Next, ok, ethnicities - so? What actually changed? Genetical/phenotipical differencies vanished? Or maybe history of "ethnicity" genesis suddenly changed and all the different rac... err... "ethnicities" came out from africa simultaneousely once and bla-bla-bla? That is ridiculous. I am russian, my upbringing is such that I just don't get what's the fuss. I've learnt that there are about 5 races at the moment and YES one of them is called "negroids", YES black africans are called "negroes", no I don't get why the hell such a term as "afro-american" appeared (ok, I KIND OF get why, but it's a cultural artifact of USA and nothing universal here). Bottomline - RACES exists. It's a fact. ETHNICITIES exists. It's a fact as well. We have an antropologists who use both terms with different meanings and it's by no means a problem (no, I'm not ready to name a difference). I just don't get which letter of the word "race" is THAT universally offending that each and every person in the world must forget the term altogether.
Artem Ponomarev The theory of 5 races is widely regarded as scientifically inaccurate. The fact that you hold on to this notion reveals you as a racist in every sense of the word, regardless of which qualities you may or may not apply to which alleged human race. You cannot identify e.g. African-Americans as a biological, unique "race" because there has been so much "interracial" exchange of genetic material (same goes for all people). Like with nations, there are trends and tendencies, both physically and genetically. But there is NO definite categorization of "race A, B, C etc". For example saying all Russians have huge foreheads and ugly noses is like saying all Russians drink vodka. It's a strong tendency among that group of people yet no intrinsic characteristic or rule. There are Russians who drink no vodka and there are Italians (most certainly) who do drink vodka. There is no such thing as "race X" and there is no such thing as "nationality X". Both are human constructs to help some people's brains categorize the world more easily, however they bear no actual merit in science.
What you describe is merely a trend in western science. I tell you, in russian antropological school there is no such problem. So, your point is that races dont't exist because of... metisation??? So what? Nations? Nations are a social-cultural construct, these may or may not depend heavily on race or ethnicity (usually do, historically). Why did you even came to discuss nations in context of races? Just to remember that russians (which I am) have "stupid foreheads" and "drink vodka"? Wow, how very intelligent of you. Next, I am a racist? Because I SEE races? Because I KNOW what those are? Get a brain! Racism is a DISCRIMINATION issue, not a DIFFERENTIATION issue! It's like saying that "gender is not a thing! It's just a term that was created in olden days to discriminate half of society. But now all kind of homosexual/transsexual activities are a norm, any person has equal rights in any other aspect so it's time to forget these... ugly defenitions of 'men' or 'women' - we're all humans! Hurray!" But you know what, eny person wih a brain will just naturally see that girls are not a boys. And you know what? It's ok. Let them have the same rights, let them have the same options, but stop playing blind - it makes you look... strange.
Artem Ponomarev Well I guess that goes to prove that Western science is superior to Russian science in that regard, then. And I'm not even a Western scientist, so don't call me biased, which is, I suspect, what you are by the way. The only reason you adhere to Russian science is because you are Russian and it makes you feel like you belong. And on a side note, it was British and German "scientists" who back in the 19th century came up with the whole concept of race theory. So if anything, your so called Russian anthropological school uses outdated Western science. The reason your gender analogy fails is because the to sexes are distinct, observable categories across most species. The term "race" implies that there is such a category among the same species of human when in fact that is just not the case (anymore). That doesn't mean you can't have dark skin or light skin or additional wrinkles on your eyelids etc. yet there is no useful or accurate way to group these criteria into distinct classes. To do so is intellectually dishonest, encourages racial thinking and is therefore racist.
Spiders are just as evolved as flies.
I was just redacted from this site for copyright infringement. I have not a clue why. I provided research sources on request but that is not a copyright infringement. There was a vibrant and contemporary discourse that is now gone at least for me and now I am viewing year old posts.
As I correct myself I have found some quotes... Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1
Maybe the callers should just write there points down on an index card and submit those cards. It would help get to the point quicker.
I grew up playing RPGs.
To me humans, dwarves and
elves are races. Not africans,
chinese and mexicans.
And the best part? No need
for any gods either. Other than
to cast actual healing spells.
Theists live in a fantasy world
minus all the cool stuff.
I didn't say that, of course there is a distinction. I'm talking about racism, and the notion of "favored races" which doesn't apply in the sense that people think it does.
So what Paul here was basing his thoughts on was something i have encountered a number of times with theists. The rationale - if we can call it that - is that some races are inferior to others, and therefore if you believe in evolution you are agreeing that those inferior races evolved slower than the superior races, which makes you racist.
As i tried to explain to those people, they're the ones assuming some races are inferior, not evolution or those who believe in the theory of evolution, which means they're actually the racist ones - invariably this goes over their heads like it did with Paul.
By the way, does anyone care to guess which race these people consider inferior and which they consider superior? I give you one shot to guess. Hint: people saying this think theirs is the superior race, and by the way, they're white.
"Although the existing races of man differ in many respects, as in colour, hair, shape of skull, proportions of the body, &c., yet if their whole structure be taken into consideration they are found to resemble each other closely in a multitude of points. Many of these are of so unimportant or of so singular a nature, that it is extremely improbable that they should have been independently acquired by aboriginally distinct species or races."
- The Descent of Man; Charles Darwin; 1871
the problem with calling them a race is the genetic differences are based more on where they live influencing their group then on any real difference in the genetic code.
The caller has taken the Evolution is like Pokemon position.
Too many people didn't pass 4th grade science.
seems the majority of americans didn't.
That still depends very heavily on the nurture aspect of behavior. In addition, this is only because we as a society have decided to punish a shitload of acts of aggression, even ones that aren't inherently harmful, as crimes. I'm not making a comment on whether this is good or not, but do you see my point?
“Morals are good, yes?” - -Depends on what you believe is morally good.
If good morals are innate why are is their so much crime? What is the mechanism for natural selection that selects individuals morals?
Agreed 100% about equal rights and opportunities under the law etc., but race is NOT a social construct. There are physical differences that are consistent within racial groups, different susceptibilities to medical conditions etc. Labelling racial differences as "social constructs" is just plain wrong.
They did not in fact claim that different races have different characteristics and that some combination of races are better than others. They claimed that having offspring with people who are not closely related to you by blood, means a wider gene pool to choose from. This is the same as saying if two people genetically are predisposed for disease can pass down the same issues to their children, but if one is not predisposed to it, then there is a better chance of that not being handed down,
“…and a bold faced lie at worst.”
“If nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with the stronger, she wishes even less that a superior race should intermingle with an inferior one; because in such cases all her efforts, throughout hundreds of thousands of years, to establish an evolutionary higher stage of being, may thus be rendered futile.”
In WWII the us occupied Japan for a short number of years and helped rebuild it’s infrastructure and left. Not go about enslaving the Japanese population. This person is a live example of how religion can warp a human being into an abominable creature.
Since you say that's irrelevant that's about it for me, no idea why I even started a conversation about it, cheerio.
That's not what I said at all.
Belief and knowledge/truth are two very different things.
A person can believe something and not know the truth of it. A person can believe something and claim to know the truth of it. A person can not believe something and not know the truth of it. A person can not believe something and claim to know the truth of it.
A person can be theist or atheist and also be agnostic or gnostic at the same time.
No, It being a Fact that is backed up by years of research and observation is what makes it True.
It is a modern construct. The use of 'race' here is referring to ethnicity, and the varying differences that are mostly cosmetic within the human race, which is one species. Much like different breeds of dogs. All dog breeds can and reproduce with one another because they are of the same species. Offspring can have varying physical traits that are a mix of the parents, just like people, same 'race' or not. You can easily use the word 'breed' for race but instead we use 'race' for people.
Was your "troll" aimed at me? Or the poster I was replying to? If the latter you misposted. If it was meant for me - I have NO IDEA what you are talking about.
The answer is no!!
Joe Stier has been ranting that Darwin was an outspoken racist.
Jamie Skinner provided a Darwin quote on race that demonstrates the opposite.
"The languages mu- ( *internal dialogue* don't say mutated, this convo is frustrating enough!) change over time"
I'm not trying to "cover up" anything. My statements were quite clear.
I'm done here.
I didn't say, "Single point." I said 'single organism'. There is more to the context of the argument than just life. What was there before life? Does something exist if there is no intelligent life form to be there to observe, experience and report it? Also, what exactly is "nothing?" Can you tell me what nothing is? Define it for me, please. Something coming from nothing. I need to know what nothing is and how a creator creates something from nothing (in your definition). Is it magic?
Not trying to win anything. Just having discourse.
When properly understood, evolution refutes racism. Before Darwin, people used typological thinking for living things, considering different plants and animals to be their distinct "kinds." This gave rise to a misleading conception of human races, in which different races are thought of as separate and distinct. Darwinism helps eliminate typological thinking and with it the basis for racism.
I said the same thing in both of my posts. There is no contradiction in my statements.
I think we're at the end of the road here. I've explained it to the best of my ability.
"We are all equally created" yeah well some seem to be more equal than others
TheBelieveit1 Equal in rights and opportunities. And what the hell does “more equal” even mean?
No. Not directly, anyway. There are of course genetic predispositions to things like aggression, but there are so many ways of channeling this. I think it's a near-impossible stretch to link genetics to violations of somewhat arbitrary rules.
Na. It's more analogous to having a 1000 piece puzzle and forcing the pieces to fit although the really don't. It's not that there are missing links in the chain of evolution. It's that there is a missing chain.There is also no fossil evidence to back the evolved theory of evolution.
I hate how the caller is saying that people did not evolve equally or at the same rate. It's actually that we all migrated and adapted, over the years, to our environments to ensure high survival rates. We adapted differently is all. None of us evolved, or at least in the sense that he is talking about, slower or faster. People really need to learn the concept of acceptance.
Wonderful analogy with the languages at 12.50
To be fair, even though Matt agreed with the comment from the ditzy chick, he does go on to recognize real differences, and to make a good point that racism isn't defined by acknowledging differences, but in treating people differently because of them.
100,000 years, however, is NOT insignificant in evolutionary terms, certainly not when it comes to the relatively slight but nonetheless critical differences between the races. No, we didn't evolve "faster;" just differently. The girl is a zero.
I recommend learning a language properly before attempting to communicate.
The caller is not eloquent, but actually he has a point. Which is that a purely materialistic worldview has really no inherent opposition to racism. But he is not able to express that and so gets run into the ground.
Really? That's hardly a rebuttal.
In a modern society, yes, they are very much superficial when we are talking about looks. Furthermore, all races are, indeed, equal.
If you separate a population into individuals, you will have inequality in certain areas, but that does not make the population or race any better or worse than another.
My skinny, pointed nose may be different from a flat, wide nose....but it is functionally the same, and neither aids or hinders survival in modern society.
(part 2) that a set of random mutations occur that produces (e.g.) stronger muscles, area C, a "grippier" tail...etc. As with area A having these random phenotypes means that you are better able to pass on your genes than not having them (access to food/escape from predators...etc). These events happen again and again over millions of years. random mutations are "naturally selected" (i.e. just so happen to give a breeding advantage) or not (give no advantage). equal advantage phenotypes = 50/50.
But why are you warning us? I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest,
‘If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?’
‘No,’ said the priest, ‘not if you did not know.
’‘Then why,’ asked the Eskimo earnestly, ‘did you tell me?’
Basically by warning us about hell and sin, you're the one getting people sent to eternal torture.
_I don't understand people_
Basing morality on humanism isn't arbitrary, even if god exsists then basing morality on what it thinks is fundamentally arbitrary. If Tiberius ceaser fines you for eating pastries it's arbitrary, if god throws you into hell for taking his name in vain; it's arbitrary.
-As equally religious as the Christians of the north. In fact, the "Southern gentleman" used christianity as a means to KEEP their slaves. So clearly the real issue isn't if they had a religion or not.
I think this caller stopped evolving 50 years ago..
@ 4:16 did matt use the funky chicken to demonstrate " better physical strength"?
I'd really like to see you answer MrDureans question "Do humans have some sort of universal, innate value?" "If so , why?"
Cherry picking questions is what cowards do. If you are not a coward prove it! Answer the question!
It matters from an atheists perspective because we MAKE the value of our lives. We don't pretend that there's a fictional font that chooses for us, what is right and what is wrong. We don't pretend that we can find forgiveness in the eyes of a fictional supervisor when we've done wrong.
We know that THIS life is all that matters, and how we treat each other IS all that matters.
It doesn't.
Im on your side, XD I was trying to say it does instruct people to do that. my bad if I wrote it not as clear as I would've wanted to
That's actually not even close to what it is, and since sexism (sexual harassment especially) and other forms of social bigotry seem to be a problem in certain sectors of the atheist community, Atheism+ is most definitely a welcome idea.
But by all means, keep going. You're making a better case for Atheism+ than I ever could. Tell Thunderf00t to keep ranting as well.
Yeah...? I did acknowledge that.
As a latino, to hear that the catholic spain didnt have a "race issue" while conquering central- and southamerica, is outrageous... this caller really should read about how the spanish conquerors dealt with the new worlds natives.
Agnosticism isn't mutually exclusive with atheism. One is a stance of knowledge the other is about belief. You can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.
Apatheist is just a form of atheism.