Rifle Safety Fail
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- So many guns on safe are not safe. I've seen many. Here is an example that I repaired, then returned to failure state for the video. The safety had been pinned with the intention of allowing the bolt to be opened while on safe; which resulted in the rifle firing when the safety was disengaged.
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Quite frightening! Thanks for making us aware.On a very much lighter note,that rifle had nice aperture sights.
You have a sharp eye Rupert - with the safety resolved the rifle is actually fantastic - and the aperture sight is a Talley, on Talley bases - fast target acquisition and major field of view. I'm always surprised how accurate aperture sights are.
USOG, Thank You very much for this safety lesson. I have had an experience with this issue once. A Man tried to sell Me a Weatherby Vanguard , He let Me try it before purchasing it. I try every rifle un loaded before firing live ammo to test the safety, and try out the trigger. To make a long story short, the rifle would fire when the safety was released. I did not purchase the rifle. The Man admitted to having lightened the trigger. This Rifle had little to no sear engagement. Very dangerous situation. Thanks again for posting this, videos like this could save a life. God Bless
Hi Rick - now that is important - all of the unsafe triggers and safeties I encountered were on older guns. Your experience goes to show people do this to modern, fine guns, like the Vanguard as well. Thank you for letting people know. Everyone should practice and get used to their triggers - whatever weight they are - mastering a trigger pull is not a big deal; this thing about pulling out files and I've even seen Dremels on triggers needs to stop. God bless you and keep you.
Important point - unless you're a credible, trained gunsmith, don't just start "fixing or tweaking" the trigger/safety system. All machinery, including firearms, can be adjusted to improve function by people who've had proper training and understand how the adjustment affects the rest of the system.
After I've had any work done on one of my guns, I take it to the range and review how everything works - I never just place the gun back in the safe and automatically trust it. We're all human and can make mistakes and as much as I trust my favorite gun gurus, the guns always get a trip to the range for my piece of mind!
Hi Paul - excellent advice! Maybe more people should just buy a new and better trigger if available. I've seen and dealt with countless trigger experiments that either made the trigger pull far to light, or release on closing the action, or the safety fires the gun... and so on.
USOG - Hey Mike, yeah one of my favorites is, "My buddy knows everything about guns and he fixed the trigger!" Indeed, the "My buddy" statement has been the ultimate deal-breaker for me over the years. I've never regretted walking away from those guns, no matter how great the deal appeared! Take care!
I hire people who can lose their licenses and possibly their business to do all my gun smithing work. I put on sites and rings no problem but the guts of the gun I become familiar with but modifications of any sort are done by the aforementioned experts. Even they make mistakes but it’s far and few between. A good smith isn’t afraid of you checking his/her work. $100 is a lot of money but I pay it gladly for my often fired guns for their “annual” cleaning/inspection, (not literal but I shot lots of pistol and that gets some serious attention as do bullpup rifles since my face is beside the explosions).
I would never make a blanket statement like that. Maybe I would modify it to never do your own critical gunsmithing unless you are sure you know what you are doing. And never trust that your gunsmith actually knows what HE:S doing. There are a LOT of hacks out there. I have been doing my own work for decades now, after trusting others who had a bunch of nice tools, decades of experience, and then screwed up my firearms. Didn't take me long to teach myself. What took the longest time was to figure out that the engineers and craftsmen at the factory generally did what they did on my firearms for a reason.
Thank you and I agree 100%.
My first and favorite .22LR rifle, Sako P-54, has a flaw. The safety is a L-shaped bar and if you apply too much pressure to the trigger when safety is engaged, you can break it.
The bar will break off and the gun will fire. That is how I got it from my granddad and dad, dont know which one of them had broken it but as I have seen dozens of P-54`s, most have the same breakage.
Mine is fixed but I still dont trust it as I dont trust safeties in general.
Negligent or accidental discharge is a thing we dont want to encounter.
Hi Teppo, Thanks for telling us. I hope all P-54 owners know what you know. I like what you said about safeties - "I don't trust safeties" - the German de-cocking rifles are a good way to go.
You said it best, and i wish more would get this, Dont trust safeties.
That's quite an impressive short demontration on firearms safety.
Thanks Svern - I thought I should do something - there must be many other guns like this.
This is The best message to the gun owners .
The gun is a mechanical instrument and any mechanical instrument can't be trusted for the proper functionality.
It's better to unload the striker while loading the new round in the chamber .
Once you want to shoot just open and close the bolt so that striker will be cocked .
This is the perfect demo which shows never trust anything which can kill you or someone else who is near you..
We agree on everything Sathvik!
Excellent advise. Good to know
Thanks Rock
That was the best firearms lesson I've ever had in my 50 years of shooting and working on guns.
Thank you so kindly. Glad to be of service.
Thank you sir for this life saving video, although I never encountered this problem on all my rifles. But, it's always good to know and to be safe!!!
Hi Robert - thank you so much.
Just saw your rifle safety video and i really appreciate you getting the message across clearly. Another rifle safety topic you might care to discuss is the "self loading rifle ". The term 'self loading' has gone out of fashion, we usually now use the term Automatic, Auto loading, or simi Automatic. But most people do not realize that some firearms actually can (and often do) chamber around accidently. Especially the common .22 such as the ruger 10-22 marlin 60, winchester, remington and their clones. Since they are blowback operated there is only spring pressure holding the bolt shut and most do not have a bolt latch even when on 'safe'. If the buttstock is struck the inertia will cause the bolt to open enough to chamber a round from the magazine. Dropping the rifle only about a foot or so onto a hard surface is enough to chamber a round , or eject the one from the chamber. Thank you again.
The first and only time I relied on a safety, I was on a late afternoon deer hunt with two other guys. No one got a deer and we all met back at the truck. I went to unload my rifle, pointed the barrel safely away and slipped off the safety. BOOM!! Ever since, I have never chambered a cartridge until I was ready to shoot. If I didn't shoot, out came the cartridge.
That's The only way to be safe, too many people carry a chambered round and think that it's ok to do this, until the gun goes off,
Very WORNG!!!
About 5 years ago my brother told me he wanted me to look at a custom Winchester Model 70 he had custom built around 2000 right when 300WSM came out. Right after he had it built he took it on a moose hunt and said it would fire by itself so he hadn't used it since. I never got a chance to look at it. Long story short he died last year and my nephew inherited it and I had told him about the problem so he brought it over today for me to look at it. If you had the safety in the intermediate position while cocked and just barely touched the trigger, it would put it into a state that when you pushed the safety from intermediate to fire position it would fire. Having seen that before, I took off the stock and immediately noticed all the nuts on the trigger were loose and the trigger spring had no compression on it, so when it was cocked and on safe if you fiddled with the trigger sometimes it wouldn't spring back to catch the sear. Sometimes it would fire just by moving safety to the fire position without messing with the trigger. I re-adjusted the upper trigger nuts and locked them together and adjusted the lower nut and put purple locktite on the threads. Now it works properly, but I wouldn't trust the safety on any trigger designed to rely on three nuts on a threaded rod staying tight.
Hi Rob, I'm sorry about your brother. I like to think he's gone on ahead and is waiting on the trail for you. As for triggers and safeties. People seem to be keen on improving trigger pulls and so begins the end of many triggers, safeties, guns, and lives. The Model 70 has an excellent trigger and safety from the factory. I've yet to see a factory trigger come apart on its own; especially the Model 70. I suppose it could happen though. Anyway your conclusion is correct : no safety should be trusted. I open the bolt. IMHO. All the best to you and thanks for writing.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns You're right, probably the gunsmith that built that rifle had the nuts backed down as far as possible to get the lightest pull, which also puts less tension on the nuts, making them easier to come loose. Either that or the upper two nuts weren't properly locked together. I'd feel much better with that setup with the longer spring on top and eliminating the upper two nuts completely. You have some great videos, and this one makes it clear why you should never rely on a safety and always have the gun pointed in a safe direction.
Great video...seriously never seen this before and I'm glad i have now.
Thanks Rock - one life saved... or an injury avoided. People should leave triggers and safeties alone.
Thanks as always!
Oh i have a good one of these. A Martini action. Open and close the breach. Apply the safety. Test the trigger. Nothing. Take the safety off *CLICK*.
Thanks for writing! That is the click of death - I know exactly that situation. Can be corrected BTW - the Martini is otherwise excellent.
USOG Im not so sure about mine. It was made in Lausanne and then someone decided to change some stuff. I took it apart once and well... The trigger swivles on what appears to be a very cheep sheet of metal, very shody soldering. I ought to take a video of it at some point. But id need to get ammo first as it is an unobtanium even 40 years ago. 9.3x53r Swiss.
At least i have an example of a Martini action at least and that for 35 bucks, i guess.
Yeah, I test all my rifles safety's like that to make sure they work properly before I load with live ammo. I also bump the stock on the ground to make sure the firing pin doesn't drop when bumped. On an empty chamber of coarse.
Hi Jason - I like the "bump" - I should have mentioned that in my video. I personally had 2 shotguns that "fired" when you bump the stock. Of course I learned this when they were not loaded. Thank you so much for mentioning - I will credit you when I talk about it on video.
USOG that is actually a common problem with pump action shotguns
Also a problem with O/U shotguns as well. Parts wearing and oil stiffening can cause them to fire both barrels at once or rapidly one after another and it is a huge problem. Fixable but you must be aware of that possibility.
Openbolt submachineguns have similar problem and too many soldiers have been injured and/or died while pumping or dropping their weapon. The bolt goes back; picks up a live round from the magazine and fires it as it slams forward. Thing to be aware when handling SMG`s at the range.
Spot on Mike. Australia now has mandatory safety training before you can get a licence. Like motorcycle licences, safety training is important.
This is a very good Video , I hope it opened the Eyes of Every Hunter and Shooter so that all can Triple Check Their RIFLE before heading into the woods . I WISH EVERYONE A SAFE HUNTING SEASON EVERY YEAR . Only with a safe Rifle will you have stories to tell your Children , Grand Children and Friends .
Thank you for sharing this video (like all your videos). My issue with having, or using a safety, is that it tends to diminish the 'awareness' of being in possession of a loaded firearm. You have demonstrated this beautifully in this video. To me I was brought up to believe that ALL FIREARMS are loaded (regardless of having an empty magazine, etc). In this way you practice correct muzzle awareness, etc, so that should a firearm ever discharge, the bullet will land in a safe area and free from hitting anyone. I too also carry my rifle with the rifle loaded, cocked but with the bolt left open. It's a simple matter of just closing it.
I wish everyone thought like you - no more gun accidents.
Unreal. Thank you for sharing.
Love your channel and your knowledge about these great rifles!
Glad you're here and like the channel! Thank you!
Immediately after watching this video, I check all my rifles and found a serious risk. The safety of my Zastava M85 7.62x39 could be fail. I found when the screw that controls the safety is turned 45 degrees, the safety can be fail, the trigger can still be pulled to fire even with safety on. Normally, the trigger cannot be pulled when the safety turns on. That said, if this screw somehow came loose by 45 degrees, the gun could still misfire even with the safety on. I tried several times to make sure the problem exists. Thank you for the reminder.
Important post - thank you! Maybe some Loctite on that screw is a good idea. Thank you for informing us.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Thanks for the info, I didn't know Loctite could be used to hold screws before. I will buy it.
The only thing worse is a stuck firing pin. Then the gun goes off when you close the gun.
That is bad!
I once got a shotgun into my shop by a customer who complained he had had it at another gunsmith and "now the damn thing goes off when I close it". Turned out the other "gunsmith" did not harden the firing pin so they had mushroomed at the end! Every time he fired the gun the pin got stuck in its hole like a wedge. It is very important to teach shooters to point guns in a safe direction, and hold the gun firmly when closing actions.
I am glad I found this. My Mouser did exactly the same thing and local fun Smith didn't believe me. I took it to another who found no issue. Is there something I can ask them to do to fix this issue? I would think upgrading the trigger and bolt might help... Can you directive what you did to fix it? I want to show this video to my gunsmith and see if he understands what I'm talking about.
Hi Matt - This type of malfunction can usually be easily fixed. Most of the time someone has tried to do something with the safety or trigger and caused the problem. The Mauser and Enfield safeties and trigger are excellent as designed and manufactured. Attempts to improve triggers often make them unsafe. Good luck with your Mauser.
if my memory serves me right, that safety switch needs to be pulled all the way back, at which point it actually pulls the striker back from the sear. The P17 safety is about the stoutest I have seen.
You're right - a smith fixed it for me with no issues.
Absolutely correct Charles
That is amazing. I did not know. I paused the video and ran to get my gun and test. The safety on my Mauser has been modified to allow a scope, so the three position wing safety tab only goes down to fire and almost vertical for safety (no fire). So that may be the reason mine doesn't not duplicate what you show. If I cock the gun with the bolt and place the gun in safe mode, pull the trigger then move the safety tab down to the fire position the striker is not released. I think that is either because the Mauser does not have that flaw or because mine was customized thus that flaw was removed. Nevertheless, excellent video and critical to know information.
You have the best action ever made. Paul Mauser thought of everything. Even with the scope safety - that safety will never fail . And I don't use the term never easily. Cheers Rick.
Pull the safety all the way back! I had one of those rifles a 1917 Enfield, I think yours might be the Remington 30s
Thanks Craig
Well seeing this now will help me later, thanks man ❤
Thank you.
I really enjoyed that. Thank you so much for this video ❤️
I just did this with my Lee Enfield No. 4 by putting the safety on half way, but when the firing pin went down as I turned the safety off, it stopped again, short of firing, and the whole thing was locked up, until I pulled on the "decocker" thus cocking the rifle again.
Sir, your channel and videos are priceless. Whereabouts are you located?
Thanks Aamir! I appreciate all words of support. I'm not supposed to say where I am but I consider myself a world citizen - so you and I probably come from the same place. : )
thank you , learn something new today
Opening the bolt is the best way, cheers
Good video about safety safety. My question is, what make and model is it? The local gunshop has a postwar-customized rifle that has the same action build, but there are no markings save a horse's head on top of the breech band. ALSO it had been re-chambered in 25-06.
This is a P14 or 17 Enfeild - I don't have it anymore. Easily corrected the safety is fine now; someone played with the safety/trigger which caused the problem. Often the case. I'd buy another.
Thanks for this insight
I bought a sporterized Eddystone in 30-06 a few months ago - beautifully done at that - and it has the same style of safety. I had bought it on Gunbroker at a price I couldn't pass up and the FFL who received it for me pointed out that he could drop the striker while the safety is in the middle position. When I have the safety fully engaged and squeeze the trigger, it doesn't fire later when the safety is released, which is good. The trigger had been upgraded when the rifle was sporterized so if I understand the video correctly, this may be the cause of the "unsafe" safety? Thanks for all the info!
Hi BM, Yes - that is perfect and on this one they put a pin to prevent full safety travel. They wanted the trigger locked and the bolt could still be opened - which is not a bad idea. They didn't realize the safety if pinned or used at half cock would release the sear if the trigger is pulled at "half safe." I removed the pin.
Very interesting. Thanks for the reply and all the great content on your channel.
I have handled and collected Model 1917's and the British version P14 for 55 years and have never seen anyone put the safety in a vertical position. If you'll look at the stock of either of the two rifles I mentioned in their battle dress stocks you will see that there is a radiused cut out in the stock for the safety to rotate back 180° to the full rear position. The individual that built this sporting stock did not cut the recess in the stock to allow the safety to fully engage. I deeply respect the author of this video channel and this IS my only time to have commented in what I see is NOT a firearm design fault but human error in the safety use. I recommend anyone interested in these rifles to note the original stock design and advise the use of the full application of the safety as it was designed in 1913. These rifles have the strongest actions and the most fail proof safety designed in any military configuration yet the safety must be applied in the full on position.
Well that's pretty scary
You need to rock the safety ALL THE WAY BACK; you were just going half-way, and most importantly, DON'T pull or play around with your trigger! Would you do that with a live round chambered?? I certainly hope not...
Thanks for writing and good advice. Sadly, the safety would not rotate in the customary way properly. I've seen others like this as well. It is likely that people pin the safety at the half mark; partly because some release the sear if rotated to the full safe position. Anyway, good advice and one ought to try to put the rifle on full safe if possible. Still, not really safe but worth a try. All the best.
Wow! Thanks! 😮
Thanks for being here : )
This man is awesome .
Thanks Jim. I am humbled.
Always keep your finger off the trigger till you’re ready to fire
Great advice Andrew - thank you!
I got a rem700 from an auction and went to shoot aware of the reputation they had for firing without pulling the trigger. On my tenth round the striker wouldn't lock to the rear and when I got it to I had a weird feeling the gun was going to fire when I flipped the safety off. I aimed at the target, pushed the safety forward and sure enough, boom. But that wasn't a factory issue. Like you mentioned, someone tampered with the trigger and messed up the sear angle. Just can't be too careful
That is a perfect example Jonathan. Thank you for writing. I have one Remington that does that as well. I'll dig it out and make a video. Someone tried to lighten the trigger pull. Modern triggers need to be left alone unless designed for adjustment. I think the problem was/is that the older triggers in older guns - not just Remingtons - could be improved - then when the new style units came out people didn't realize their sensitivity. I want everyone to know how dangerous it is to work on triggers and safeties. Thanks for reminding me about the Remington. These are brilliant rifles - but people should leave the triggers alone - or buy a Timney or something.
The one I got is a police model, so one can only assume it was a police gunsmith that did the tampering, but I certainly hope not.
No problem with me, I've always kept my safety in my glove. That way I know when the trigger has been pulled.
Thanks. I'm subscribed, but UA-cam didn't update me or put this in my feed. I'm hitting the notification bell.
Thanks for subscribing! I'm not sure about what happened - I usually wait awhile and something happens; but maybe not. Glad you are on board!
I was always taught to never trust a safety. Nice point the safety is really a delayed fire mechanism if actuated by the trigger. Are all rifle safeties like that? Are there exceptions, not that anything can be totally dummy proofed.
Much prefer the European decocker system . I am thinking of getting a custom carbon gun built on tikka m595 action I have but the safety does not feel dependable I prefer a 3 position safety or decocker . Might go with sauer 404 left handed or heym sr30 left handed .
Hi John - the decocker is a very smart way to go for sure - I like it too. Your idea of the custom rifle on the 595 is very interesting; I haven't seen many or any custom rifles on that fine action. Good idea! The Heym is brilliant and so is the 404 - but you know these things already : ) Thanks for writing John.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns in Ireland and UK. The old tikka s like the m590 m595 m55 etc are known to be the best non custom action to build a gun on . I'm a major fan of steyr and have a ssg p2 in .22 250 and I can't sell it at all so I won't buy another steyr for this reason it's not a well known brand here in Ireland . I'm stuck between custom build or blaser r8 or heym or sauer 404 . Love to hear your opinion on the best of the above 3 manufacturers .
My 14 year old has this happen this weekend while getting ready for his first deer we had successfully stalked. Luckily he had the gun pointed in a safe direction but, dropping the safety off caused a fire! Scared us both and the deer off the hunt...Fail and now trying to find someone to fix
I'm so relieved that no one was hurt. In the case of this rifle someone tried to lighten or shorten the trigger pull. Not too difficult to fix by a gunsmith. People often tamper with triggers. I encourage leaving triggers as they are or replacing the whole trigger mechanism. All the best to your son and you. Good health, good and safe hunting. 🙏
Hello. I have a client that came in with one. What did you do to fix it?
Hi SN, On my own I removed a pin which someone had installed which prevented full rotation of the safety and after that the safety often worked. Being short of time and knowledge I then took the rifle to a smith who repaired/replaced the rest - more of a repair I think as the trigger and safety look the same. It is surprising how often safeties and triggers are modified by owners looking for improved results/function. I suggest that safeties and triggers be left alone - which you know. Even a "bad" trigger can become familiar. Hope this makes sense and best of luck.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Thank you. Much appreciated.
Very informative. Would appreciate if you do a small video on the Canadian Ross MK-II related to safety
Just picked up a model 30 a few days ago. Going to have to check out the safety
Hi GT - this one had been worked on by someone. The design is excellent so long as people don't tamper.
USOG Good deal. Thanks
Reminds me of a shotgun I used to own. The saftey didn't work, like it did nothing at all, the trigger could still be pulled just as easily. I have since scraped it and sold as many of the parts as I could.
Hi Frank, You did the right thing. I had a double shotgun that someone had used a file on. They wanted to change something with the triggers - maybe the heaviness of the pull. Anyway, that gun could fire at any time - or the triggers were so heavy to pull they were unusable. I sold the parts too.
Have the same problem on a beuhler installed safety on a m96
Not good - but solvable.
I dont relly on anything to keep me safe. thats why I'll always be safe around firearms :-\ dont chamber a round until your ready to fire , simplest safety you can get
Yours is the best way
In the 80s and 90s there was quite popular here in Norway when on rebuilt Ex mil k98s that was cheap to put on the Quart Safety , buehler type i think it was made by or a copy of.
It worked good,but if it was much used it got worn and shot would go. Imagine a safety of that put on the Police sniper rifles, and they was much used to keep the zero of the sjooter in order. Then things started to happen on range. Then it was a ban on using those rifles. As i know for a while only the Delta Police unit had sniper rifles . They did not at all want to adopt the modified k98 rifles made by Vapensmia Dokka wwho also made the NM 149 and NM 149s sniper rifles, same safety on them also. The police bought Sauer SSG 3000 rifles and that was a much better choice ,especially on the hostage taking on Torp in 1994, lot of stuff to google there.
Very interesting comments - and I'll read more. I'm glad the went with the 3000. I can't imagine police and military with faulty rifles; in those life and death situations the rifle must work 100% - as you know.
What color is that receiver ?
It is bluing but sometimes they get the temperature off a bit and the metal turns a little purplish.
how dangerous it could be
Hi Surinderjit - a lot of safeties don't increase safety much. I like actions that are not locked and loaded.
I'm having that problem now with my Remington 270 I have taken it to a couple different gunsmith nether one fixed it
Hi Bobby - Maybe try a new trigger - that's what I end up doing with triggers that have been "worked on." Bye for now.
Great vid!
You didn't fully engage the safety. You need to rotate that safety all the way to the rear, not just straight up.
Hi Scott - Sadly, it won't go there - but you're right.
How to solve this?
I had the work that someone else had done - and all is well now.
Do not chamber a live round until you are ready to fire the gun and sure of your target and treat every gun with the respect as it was loaded. # 1 Rule of gun safety!!!
I had a Liberty 2,Turkish shotgun.And if loaded ond on safe I could pull the trigger and the safety would pop off and the gun would fire.It looked nice,but total junk.
Hi David - I know what you mean - sometimes things go so wrong. It's hard to trust any safety.
Safety works fine if the safety is not broken AND you know how to properly work the safety. Case in point, that is a P14/17 rifle (probably a 17), to properly engage the safety, you have to rotate the lever ALL the way to the back. Please stop spreading inaccurate information.
Thanks!
You're absolutely right pull the safety all the way back
You did not have the safety all the way down
Thank you Ellsworth -You're right - it had been worked on by someone. After repair it worked like a charm - and quite accurate. Lovely rifle.
it just a thumb trigger! LOL
Hahaha
Mod. 30?
Patt'14 & M17's don't do that
You know what's what Jeffrey. Someone put a pin in that gun. I've seen every kind of thing; people with files and Dremels and diamond honing tools. All for the sake of some kind of undefined trigger pull. I know you know guns and have probably fired thousands of rounds; a good trigger is nice but not not worth all the strange and dangerous things people do.
USOG no, it sure isn't. My military guns (all I collect) are all 100% stock and the best examples I can afford. You learn to shoot the rifle and not try to make it be something it's not. Shooting a rifle the way it was 100 (+) yrs ago helps you get a true connection to what those poor guys went through.
I actually have an article coming up on Patt'14's.