Should Churches Be Led By A Board? (A Discussion on Church Polity)
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- How does the Bible say that churches are to be governed? In this video I discuss the various church government models in the light of Scripture.
I'm Rod Saunders, founder of Jew and Greek. I’m a musician, web developer, and a student of philosophy and economics. I recently published my first book on Amazon entitled Defending the Faith: Word of Faith Apologetics. It’s a response to the numerous charges against and misrepresentations of the Word of Faith movement and theology. I also have a CD of original music on CD Baby entitled Gates of Pearl. “Jew and Greek” is a good name because the two civilizations that influenced Western civilization the most were those of the Judeo-Christian and Greek worlds. From the Jews we received our values and a monotheistic theology, and from the Greeks we got philosophy which brought us science, sports, the arts, democracy, and economics. As a result I discuss all of the above in this blog and in my videos.
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I often wondered where people get "plurality of elders" from. Thanks for explaining
Great explanation Rod. Good topic! The Calvinist Pastor who tells the church they need new church government with a "plurality of elders" isn't to keep the Pastor accountable. It is to surround the Pastor with unqualified Yes-Men who will support his narcissistic behavior and protect his position against members of the congregation that question the validity of his unbiblical teachings. Just saying.
Not always. But sometimes, yeah. That happens. And it happens in many systems even when it’s one pastor.
The solution truly is to have more masculine and strong men and spaces for them.
But the Church as a whole has not done well to inculcate good spaces for masculine and strong men.
You literally just described Mike Bickle from IHOP 🥴
1000% right
I serve as an elder for my church…I think you hit the nail on the head…character
Unless the character is right the church will rot
Something else I would add. I’m not against women preaching or speaking, but from my experience, having women on church boards rarely works. I was only thinking about it the other day and to why it doesn’t work.
I’d suggest it’s because women are more emotional, and if an issue arises … from my experience they tend to hold grudges …. Im happy to be corrected on this, only speaking from my experiences and talking to other pastors and elders from other churches in my town
Unregenerate women are probably more likely to hold grudges than men.
Holding grudges is most definitely, 100% NOT part of the fruit of the Spirit. It's a sure sign of someone being unsaved.
Excellent video as always, brother!
Thanks Brother Rod for the wonderful analysis.. Always love listening to you 💓
Thanks, Rod. Good video!
Very good. I agree this subject is not something I would be dogmatic about. It's a minor issue.
A topic I have wondered about but have never heard any teaching on, up until now. Thank you for presenting the historical side and more importantly the scriptural side.
Excellent, and balanced! Good work, brother.
Nicely done, Rod. Very insightful and thought-provoking! 💯🧐🙏
Excellent video, Rod! And spot on.
Thanks Rod.
The embodiment of the qualities for the role of Deacon are in part the same as elders.
Amazing
✌🏼
Like your Bach in the opening from the Partita no 3 in E major. Appreciate this as a music teacher and musician myself. Might join you by playing this one on the violin. I am wary of centralised human power and crystalise it in a saying "The limitations of the leader of the church become the limitations of the church" and this often doesn't go well. It is rare you find a pastor who is open to the Holy Spirit and not "authoritative and controlling" in pentecostal circles. A pastor who is aware of and sensitive to the Holy Spirit and whose heart is "Lord, I am following you, have your way". Where I have had this (rarely) in my christian walk, I have appreciated it. My first Pentecostal pastor really modelled this for me. The problem is and was for him with "party spirit" and divisions in the church spoiling this openness to the Holy Spirit. In the end it really has to do with the church leader's heart. Are they able to hear from the Lord, follow him and encourage the ministry of the saints - as you say to serve the Lord. I don't know councils are much better, thought we have the model of the sanhedrin in Jewish culture. In the end we should be governed by Christ, but whether we can hear him to follow him will always be the primary issue with this. A leader with his heart in the right place before the Lord... that is what is to be desired.
Thanks. You're the first person to recognize that piece in the comment section.
Good video. I've been in churches with a number of government systems and, practically speaking, I do think that the plurality of elders provides the best safeguards against abuse of power.
Good stuff!
God bless! 🙏😊
The new test does not endorse or proscribe the "senior pastor" model
That's right. Character counts. Part of the issue is that in order to be able to receive tax deductible donations and also be able to legally pay staff, the church organization has to be registered. Here in Canada, you need at least 3 directors for non-profits. I'm sure the USA has similar laws. This creates a situation where the pastor has to answer to a board who have the legal ability to kick him out. And seeing that the divorce rate is high even amongst self professing Christians, it is easy to see how the pastor, for the purposes of their own job security, can bend doctrine to cater to the masses with regards to things like marriage and divorce.
I agree with you, Rod. With my travels, I have witnessed different governing systems.
In deed, it comes down to character where the Moses concept or a board of elders.
I find the pastor that has poor character will have a corrupt board,or if no board he still continues in his methods.
I know a Baptist pastor that will ask opinions on a matter, yet it is always his policies that move for the well being of the church.
He has been in the same church since he was a boy.
The man is loved by many and a joy to work with.
Of course their are others where this model fails and the church does not grow.
In the church I attend there originally pastor and Co pastor,it worked perfectly through hardships and miricals.
We have a new pastor now and he has an assistant pastor and I three years things have really gone well, a shaky start at first, but Christ is the head of the church and we are growing.
Personally I do not believe a church should be operated on the wants of the congregation,where as the pastor seeks to please all when he makes a decision.
The congregation is not called to leadership,and most of the time there are squabbles.
Being a pastor is one of the gifts of the ministry that our lord gave to the church.
It should never be an abuse of power or a legalism quagmire.
I believe if a church congregation is in the thousands,then just like Moseshad advice from his father-in-law,he delegated the work with a chain of command.
But apparently Ziporah needed to go,so Moses made a choice for another wife,and it was in God's will.
I tried to put on a "thumbs up," but this machine put up a "thumbs diwn "
I agree
Thanks for all the great content. Would you consider a response video to Mike Winger’s recent video meant to expose Benny Him? I would like hear your thoughts and I’m sure others would as well. God bless.
I'm thinking about it.
Very interesting topic. I had always thought the AG was Presbyterian in polity, due the the General Council setting the doctrine. I looked on line and it saidit is a mix of Presbyterian and congregational. That was Wikipedia, so I'm still wondering? 🤔 How did you find Congregational?
Admittedly I was going by my memory of how AG churches were run 30-40 years ago, but on the AG website it says "The pastor is elected by the local congregation." ag.org/About/About-the-AG/Structure#Sovereignty%20of%20Local%20Assemblies The Wikipedia article was going by the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church.
A plurality of elders is clearly the New Testament model. The rest are hybrid or manmade. The New Testament is devoid of “the” pastor model.
If it's so clearly the NT model why is it the minority view? I think I presented my case in a very compelling manner. You don't need a plurality of elders for a house church. Why don't you make a video presenting your case for the plurality of elders model and see how it goes over?
@@JewandGreek Paul did not write a single letter to “the” pastor. James did not tell the sick to call for “the” pastor for prayer. Acts 15:2, 4, 6, 22-23. Titus 1:5. Finally, even in the house church I serve we have two elders and all decisions are jointly made.
@@davidward5225 I think you're reading the Bible anachronistically here. James said to get the elders to pray for the sick, but there was no church structure in place as we know it today. In a city with multiple house churches there would be multiple elders. There was no idea of a board of elders in the first century.
@@ericedwards8902 Exactly, so why did it change?
"Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola is a very well researched and also very readable book on the pagan origins of a lot of church-ianity.
I don't recommend many books (apart from the Bible) but I recommend that one.
It's eye-opening.
Every local church should be led by a group of elders.
I went to 2 back to back church board meetings.
I wish I had not.
I would hope that all boards are not what I experienced. I would rather be blissfully ignorant and able to worship.
I feel like the denial of apostles runs vim tandem with churches having a close preference for their model of church polity, i.e. apostles are not for today because “the Bible clearly states to have a board of elders.”
That's really good. I might add the Orthodox are use bishops without a pope. I have a question: how should leaders test potential deacons as Bible says? (1 Tim. 3:10)
How many so-called, "men of God" are actually walking by their spirit man? Too, few. Carnal Christians, leading carnal Christians to hell. The blind, leading the blind. True meaning of being lost. I'm praying for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit, so we can be without blemish when He comes to take us Home, amen!!!! Maranatha!!! Soon, and quickly, is His coming, amen!!!!
Plurality of elders is not some biblical imperative. If that's what you want to do, fine. But don't act like it's some rule all churches must follow.
Exactly!
Will never attend a church that is under one person
@@codyclark5995 that's your prerogative, but there's a bunch of churches that are allegedly led by a plurality of elders but still function as a pastor led church.
@@ericedwards8902someone has to be the captain. That does not mean that he cannot be thrown overboard.
We can have mutiple peopel over the physical needs of the church community, (deacons). But one person have to preach at least 40 sermons a year, teach Bible study, one on one counseling, visit hospitals and prisons, do weddings and eulogies ??
@@codyclark5995 like I said earlier, you're free to see it how you do and I see it how I do. But one of the most prominent "elder led" churches in America is Grace Community Church where John MacArthur is "lead pastor" and backed by a plurality of elders but at the end of the day, MacArthur makes the decisions. You've got a million elders, but MacArthur preaches the vast majority of the sermons...he's the GCC brand. So is that not basically a Moses model, just with a veneer of elder leadership. Like i said originally, plurality of elders is not a biblical imperative, just one of a number of church governance models.