Is there a process that gives the traditional members that uphold the Book of Discipline as the one that stays and oust the bishops that do not uphold the traditional values the denomination is built on?
Very good statement on the recent history of the UMC. It's my understanding that the progressive churches are the ones who must leave the UMC. The traditional churches can stay within the UMC as it is currently operating. Is this correct? I am aware of a progressive UMC in Savannah, GA that has successfully spit. If a local church's memberships decides it will continue in the traditional mode, does it have to do anything?
Hi John. Thank you for your comment. To be clear, neither progressive, traditional or centrist must leave the United Methodists Church denomination. The denomination will remain in some fashion after September 2021. The St. Louis Conference affirmed the current Book of Discipline, which means that the General Conference affirmed the traditional stance. However, the Bishops have ignored the decision of the Conference and have not enforced the Book of Discipline. Therefore, in a way you are correct that the progressive part of the Church must leave if it will not comply with the Book of Discipline. But in reality, the Discipline in not being enforced by the Bishops, and there is not method to force compliance. This means that if the traditionalist wish to uphold the Discipline, they need to leave and create their own denomination with traditional views and the mechanism to enforce its rules. As I noted in the video and eBook, every church - traditional, progressive and centrist - needs to take appropriate steps to preserve its property. We can work with your church to guide you through the steps to disaffiliate and become independent, move to a new denomination or stay in the denomination and preserve your property, your pastor and your ministry in your community - just as we have with dozens of local churches formally associated with the United Methodist Church throughout the United States. Our contact information is on our website. I look forward to hearing from you.
You state, "But in reality, the Discipline in not being enforced by the Bishops"> So why not put some teeth in the formula? If the bishops do not do their job, fire their ass! Why are Christians and Conservatives afraid to stand up? Grow a set and do the RIGHT THING and fire the punks! @@daltontomichplc2855
@@fredpieper6240 There is no mechanism to enforce the Book of Discipline as to Bishops. That is but one of the fatal flaws in the denomination. If a Bishop violates the Book of Discipline, there is no one who can mandate that he or she follow it.
I stopped watching this when you told churches NOT to involve their DS’s or Bishops into conversation because “they will close you.” You asserted they would be “punished” for even talking about disaffiliation. What a ridiculous and unfounded claim. What a disservice you are providing in an important time of prayerful conversation.
Gary, as you are a director of the Susquehanna (Pennsylvania) Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church, I understand your point of view. Regrettably, some of your fellow directors, Bishops and Trustees of other Annual Conferences have acted incredibly punitive towards local churches who merely inquire about disaffiliation. In some annual conferences, not all, once the Bishop or District Superintendent becomes aware of the local church inquiring about options to disaffiliate, they move quickly using Sec. 2549(3)(b) of the Book of Discipline to close the Church, change the locks on the doors, and clean out bank accounts claiming "exigent circumstances." That is exactly why the local church needs to keep the discussion concerning their future internal - otherwise they risk immediate closure.
@@daltontomichplc2855 You say "some directors, Bishops, trustees of other annual conferences have acted punitively" Tell me where this has actually happened? Which annual conferences? Your broad brush statement made in your video, I believe, is meant to create fear not just in the conferences you have in mind but every local church pastor or lay person in any annual conference who is accessing your video shutting down forthright, healthy communication between local church, district and conference leadership. It's akin to saying, "well, this happened to one church so it will certainly happen to YOUR church." Right now, we need honest, open, spiritually mature conversation. I'm concerned that what you have presented here will shut that down and redirect the dialogue exclusively to you and your firm which, it seems, has everything to gain in this and very little to lose. I do appreciate that you took the time to respond to my comment. Thank you.
Gary Shockley You are the one painting with a broad brush. I can tell you that my own personal interactions with my Bishop and DS have been anything but “healthy communication”. I had written and expressed my views about closure during the pandemic and then questioned the Bishops edict that claimed power over activities both on and OFF church property. The Bishop has no authority to control anything I do off church property. The DS was equally as dismissive of my concerns and others concerns who wrote to him. After these interactions I would not trust them with a conversation about my congregation leaving the UMC. While you may be open to healthy conversation please accept the possibility that others are not. And maybe you should finish listening to his video and watch a few more.
This type of stuff happens when you bow to culture & government. My challenge to the Bishop is to read the bible and implement the word of God. Don’t compromise.
"Enjoy" these calming articles, voices of reason, while in a bit of testy situation!
Hey Dan. Great respect. Always appreciate your love and attention to the church. Bless you.
Thank you, Frank. Best wishes to you and yours!
Is there a process that gives the traditional members that uphold the Book of Discipline as the one that stays and oust the bishops that do not uphold the traditional values the denomination is built on?
Very good statement on the recent history of the UMC. It's my understanding that the progressive churches are the ones who must leave the UMC. The traditional churches can stay within the UMC as it is currently operating. Is this correct? I am aware of a progressive UMC in Savannah, GA that has successfully spit. If a local church's memberships decides it will continue in the traditional mode, does it have to do anything?
Hi John. Thank you for your comment. To be clear, neither progressive, traditional or centrist must leave the United Methodists Church denomination. The denomination will remain in some fashion after September 2021. The St. Louis Conference affirmed the current Book of Discipline, which means that the General Conference affirmed the traditional stance.
However, the Bishops have ignored the decision of the Conference and have not enforced the Book of Discipline. Therefore, in a way you are correct that the progressive part of the Church must leave if it will not comply with the Book of Discipline. But in reality, the Discipline in not being enforced by the Bishops, and there is not method to force compliance. This means that if the traditionalist wish to uphold the Discipline, they need to leave and create their own denomination with traditional views and the mechanism to enforce its rules.
As I noted in the video and eBook, every church - traditional, progressive and centrist - needs to take appropriate steps to preserve its property. We can work with your church to guide you through the steps to disaffiliate and become independent, move to a new denomination or stay in the denomination and preserve your property, your pastor and your ministry in your community - just as we have with dozens of local churches formally associated with the United Methodist Church throughout the United States. Our contact information is on our website. I look forward to hearing from you.
Thank you sir.
You state, "But in reality, the Discipline in not being enforced by the Bishops"> So why not put some teeth in the formula? If the bishops do not do their job, fire their ass! Why are Christians and Conservatives afraid to stand up? Grow a set and do the RIGHT THING and fire the punks!
@@daltontomichplc2855
@@fredpieper6240 There is no mechanism to enforce the Book of Discipline as to Bishops. That is but one of the fatal flaws in the denomination. If a Bishop violates the Book of Discipline, there is no one who can mandate that he or she follow it.
I stopped watching this when you told churches NOT to involve their DS’s or Bishops into conversation because “they will close you.” You asserted they would be “punished” for even talking about disaffiliation. What a ridiculous and unfounded claim. What a disservice you are providing in an important time of prayerful conversation.
Gary, as you are a director of the Susquehanna (Pennsylvania) Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church, I understand your point of view. Regrettably, some of your fellow directors, Bishops and Trustees of other Annual Conferences have acted incredibly punitive towards local churches who merely inquire about disaffiliation. In some annual conferences, not all, once the Bishop or District Superintendent becomes aware of the local church inquiring about options to disaffiliate, they move quickly using Sec. 2549(3)(b) of the Book of Discipline to close the Church, change the locks on the doors, and clean out bank accounts claiming "exigent circumstances." That is exactly why the local church needs to keep the discussion concerning their future internal - otherwise they risk immediate closure.
@@daltontomichplc2855 You say "some directors, Bishops, trustees of other annual conferences have acted punitively" Tell me where this has actually happened? Which annual conferences? Your broad brush statement made in your video, I believe, is meant to create fear not just in the conferences you have in mind but every local church pastor or lay person in any annual conference who is accessing your video shutting down forthright, healthy communication between local church, district and conference leadership. It's akin to saying, "well, this happened to one church so it will certainly happen to YOUR church." Right now, we need honest, open, spiritually mature conversation. I'm concerned that what you have presented here will shut that down and redirect the dialogue exclusively to you and your firm which, it seems, has everything to gain in this and very little to lose. I do appreciate that you took the time to respond to my comment. Thank you.
@@garyshockley6219 check with the North Georgia Conference. Words say one thing, actions prove completely different courses of action.
Gary Shockley You are the one painting with a broad brush. I can tell you that my own personal interactions with my Bishop and DS have been anything but “healthy communication”. I had written and expressed my views about closure during the pandemic and then questioned the Bishops edict that claimed power over activities both on and OFF church property. The Bishop has no authority to control anything I do off church property. The DS was equally as dismissive of my concerns and others concerns who wrote to him. After these interactions I would not trust them with a conversation about my congregation leaving the UMC. While you may be open to healthy conversation please accept the possibility that others are not. And maybe you should finish listening to his video and watch a few more.
This type of stuff happens when you bow to culture & government. My challenge to the Bishop is to read the bible and implement the word of God. Don’t compromise.