Solved? The Roman Dodecahedron
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2023
- I first heard about the mystery surrounding the Roman Dodecahedron in regard to the current theory that they were used as knitting spools to knit fingers for gloves. My eureka moment was visiting the Met in New York and seeing Roman jewelry with knitted chains. I will outline how perfectly designed the dodecahedron was as a tool for making what is now referred to as Viking Knitting using gold wire.
This is the most plausible and sane theory I've ever seen on these.
The question is, have archeologists found some semblance of metalwork shown? And why are these dodecahedrons not found in Italy, don't they have metalworks and jewelcrafting?
Maybe you should expand your knowledge base beyond UA-cam then
This also explains why so many were found at military buildings. Making various ropes, cords strings for equipment. Well done.
Very clever and most convincing. Of all suggested solutions so far this is the most likely I have seen, supportted by the fact that one was found at a jeweler's workshop in former Gaul. Congratulations, Renato Bucci, Italy
How is this not making a big splash in the news???
Because one of the elites couldn't solve it. Couldn't bear to see a commoner did.
Some people are still skeptical I guess, and for good reason: did archeologists find some semblance of metalwork shown? And why are these dodecahedrons not found in Italy, don't they have metalworks and jewelcrafting?
@@user-ms9go9ko5y Man all you boomers are delusional. A group deluged with delusion! 👨🏿🦰👨🏿🦰😼
I was skeptical at first, but having seen how well this actually works, I'm convinced that you've discovered its purpose. Well done! This is a massive achievement and you should feel very proud of yourself!
This is a compelling explanation that thankfully doesn't insult the intelligence of the audience, but it doesn't explain the dodecahedrons without holes.
I am rather impressed! This is the first time I am seeing something that makes sense. Congratulations!
It's quite obvious from the comments, that lots of people's favourite theories have been challenged by this and they aren't very happy about it. Well done Amy. 👏
Congratulations, you have cracked this mystery I hope all the museums give you recognition for your efforts solving this conundrum that has lasted centuries. Would love to get one now and make my own bracelet . Hope you patent and manufacture the design and sell it to hobbyist around the world before someone else does . Good luck .
I am absolutely convinced that you've nailed this, Amy - a combination frame and drawing plate tool for what we call Viking knit chains. There are plenty of tutorials on UA-cam about how these chains are handcrafted and it's plain to see the utility of the dodecahedron in the process, as you've clearly demonstrated. Great work! You should be widely credited for your insight.
This is a practical and demonstrable solution. These would have been a vital technology in many domains. Your use of the wooden rod in conjunction tidies up the process and demonstrates how adept the process could be. The drawing through of strands through successively smaller holes is a great insight into how cordage could be packed once wound. You demonstrate great acumen.
Brilliant. This is the only theory i have ever seen that explains all the things we know about them (stashed with gold and coins, different hole sizes but consistent peg distribution, even the wax residue!!) The only doubt i have about this is that one piece that was found with no holes in it. There were also a couple (maybe just one) piece found that was an icosahedron, and that might make a different pattern "chain", but i don't see why this wouldn't work with it too.
This might be it, it makes more sense than the glove knitting because it explains the holes having different sizes but the pegs staying at the same place in all faces.
Overall i am quite convinced this is the true use of them or quite a close approximation. I am amazed. Thank you for sharing this!
The one without holes could have strictly been used for cordage, the one with holes for chain. It could also fit with them finding them mostly on war sights in that some of the armor was made with chainmail and could have been used for repair or something along those lines.
Really?
LOL!
Maybe you don't know a lot about these things, then!
And granted, nobody does, but there are still a few irrefutable facts that we must keep in mind when proposing a theory. Obviously, this video ignores almost all of them.
@@frontenac5083 sure, whatever makes you feel happy! 😊
@frontenac5083 Looking forward to your video.
Were these used to "package" coin rolls?
I came upon your video because I had the exact same thought process and wondered if someone tried it! That would actually make the rings purposeful, as that would make it a little easier to pass a needle... the one found at Hadrian's Wall even have the tears at the edges from a needle passing regularly and indenting the metal.
This is the most plausible hypothesis, well done!!!
When I was a young boy, my grandma taught me how to knit and crochet. One day she gave me a plastic cylinder about four inches long and 1.5 inches in diameter. The top of the tube had raised posts and a hole like one side of the Roman polyhedron. Starting with knitting wool, I would make a circular loop and keep repeating it for eternity and a long, thin, hollow knitted tube would extend below the tube. Once several feet of this woolen tube was made, one was suppose to sew the ends closed and then make circular rugs or doilies by creating a flat circle with the tube and then sewing the tube to itself to make a round textile of whatever size was needed. Looks like a similar principle.
I think you are a true genius! It makes so much sence. I think it was a multi knitting tool, used for knitting gloves and chains. You ARE brilliant!
Makes crap gloves as far as I’ve seen.
@@LukeyHear Did the others use the wooden dowel?
@@Dooguk Not that I've seen yet.
@@LukeyHear have you tried? or just looking to belittle?
@@Dr.Yalex. Just stating the nature of the evidence that exists. I look forward to any more evidence you may have. All the attempts to make a glove with these objects seem poor, they also dont explain many of the features or the high value invested in their manufacture.
Yes, this is the winner in my book.
This is brilliant!! Just brilliant.
And if they weren’t using these in this way (but this HAS to be it), we should be from now on. What you made is beautiful.
So smart!!
When I first started seeing these videos on the utility of dodecahedrons I was reminded of wooden tools used in videos of rope making in primitive cultures, so your explanation makes sense to me. I think you have it.
This is the best explanation I've ever seen. Awesome research!
That's awesome, Amy. Glove fingers, braided cords, jewelry. I think you may have solved this one.
Amy you are brilliant! I watched a couple of other videos of folks pontificating on what this could be, all off in the weeds. I knew they had to be wrong with their musings, but that did not answer what the thing was for. You have done that and very convincingly! Bravo!
Best example and explanation ive seen so far.
Brilliant analysis and demonstration. Bravo!
This is absolutely fantastic!
Utterly convincing, well demonstrated Amy. No other current theory comes close.
Amazing! This deserves far more attention.
It sure does!
People deserve a good laugh!
@frontenac5083 You’re nothing but a troll.
who are you, some embarrassed "researcher" who proposed the wrong things?@@frontenac5083
@@frontenac5083What do you think they were used for?
Excellent. Best video on the subject online. You did a very convincing great job purely visual. Congratulations. You expanded the insight and knowledge of this precious object 👍👍
I will be thinking about this for forever. And they say only men think about the Roman Empire all the time.
NOW you understand!!! 😁
Not just gold chain , but rope in general.
You could use strips of leather , bark, yarn or thread to make rope.
Virtually no examples of rope from that era survive.
But using your technique, I could make an extremely strong rope out of yarn...by starting with the smallest set of holes then running the cord through a larger set and weaving another layer around it, and just keep adding layers until the rope was the strength I desired.
Good for making horse riding tack as well. Whips, girth straps and so on could be woven out of tanned leather.
This has my vote!!! Holy cow, that's cool.
It is a perfect tool in many ways! Is it cast. What a mind you must have for deciphering puzzles.
Such a smooth draw --- puts childhood spools to shame. THANK YOU SO MUCH!! In the same way, granulation was rediscovered after many centuries!
That is sheer genius, bravo!
LOL.
This is a fascinating discovery. Respect and congratulations!
Where?
Did I miss something?
@frontenac5083 Bug off.
@@frontenac5083 Your theory got wasted by this didn't it?
Another possibility
It was used for making a torch. The reusable device has opposing holes with graduated sizes that allow you to slide in a branch or pole that is tapered to be a narrower diameter at the top than the bottom. This keeps the device from sliding down onto the hands of the torch bearer. The round nodes are perfect to help tie down strips of cloth or linen (usually dipped in wax) to the device. Winter nights are longer at northern latitudes… where they tend to be found
I am convinced, this is the purpose for dodecahedrons...jewelry making or other activity using wire, yarn, or other pliable material to manufacture decorative or usable objects.
I think you've cracked it, bravo. (Also with the yarn examples, perfect fingers for gloves!)
You are both absolutely brillant. You Amy because you discovered the usage and the late inventor who came up with such a strange device. Yves P.
I think this is a great explanation, well done!
This is the most satisfying theory that I've seen proposed, as it makes use of the holes and studs. I wonder if the related icosahedron in your first picture has a similar usage.
LOL!
@@frontenac5083 Your theory got wasted by this didn't it?
As soon as I saw one I thought it was rope or string related. The nodules for a 'hook' like how your boot laces do. The different sized holes for different measurements. I think you've cracked the case with this. I can actually sleep tonight now 😂 ❤
Amazing! Nice work Amy!
this is totally amazing! I think you’ve solved the mystery, thank you for sharing.
Fantastic, illuminating. Congratulations.
Thanks Amy, that makes complete sense and is very convincing. The only thing is: Lorena Hitchens, an archaeologist specializing in Roman dodecahedrons said in the Washington Post: “They’re also much more delicate than people realize,” she said. “They would be broken very quickly.” Still, I like your idea!
Outstanding! You've solved a common sense thing that "scientists" have been baffled by endlessly.
Why scientists in inverted commas? This is science in action.
Wow how did you begin to learn this? Did you just see it and go I know what that’s for? Been wondering what these were for years. Finally someone figured it out amazing.🤩
This is the reason it was a tool I want one now!
After reading the introduction, I was a bit sceptical but after seeing the vid's I am persuaded that this could be the way the artefacts were actually used. My only misgiving is that the holes and poles seem rather large for fine jewellery work.
Because the majority of these have been associated with military sites, it leads me to the opinion that they were more likely to be used in making different sized cordage. with the diameter of the rod dictating the size of the finished cord. What I think you have found is a method of making a strong, flexible and elastic rope. Very useful for, say, springing a ballista or holding up your pants.
Congratulations on your research and ingenuity. I am really impressed.
There's a second dodecahedron with what looks like smaller wholes at 0:20. Maybe this is it?
@@hulking_presence Well spotted. I missed that one. It doesn't fit the the scenario, does it?
Nevertheless, it's amazing how simple technology can be tweaked for similar but different processes.
That said, I shall continue to be very fond of the idea that such a beautifully crafted object could possibly have been used to make knicker elastic. 🤗
That's it!! I'm a traditional tanner and an artisan of ancient crafts. I think you're exactly right here! Have you shared this directly to any researchers near you?
In order to receive the credit you deserve you should have pictures published with short article on specific archaeological magazines. Before someone steals your clever idea! Do it as soon ad possible!!
Wonderful sleuthing! But I also admire the inventor enormously!
This is very convincing. Your results look exactly like the 'knit' gold chains of antiquity. And if you're wrong, then just how DID the ancients make them? I hope the world takes note and gives you full credit. But I'm worried that unless you have the proper credentials, the 'experts' who've been baffled by this for so long might reject your theory out of pride. Let's hope that doesn't happen, and congratulations on your brilliant deduction!
LOL!
Are you for freaking real?
Correct,well said
I think the experts will be thrilled to see this. There is no need to diss experts and their expertise.
Discovering what it may be and demonstrating how it would work requires the intelligence and expertise Amy possesses (Well done Amy! :). Proving this is indeed what they were used for requires a different knowledge base and expertise. They would likely cross-reference it with the size and appearance of jewelry or rope from the era and area where the dodecahedron are found as well as look for evidence that appears disprove it. There could very well be other artifacts that make more sense when considering this scenario as well. An expert in the field is likely to recognize these and make the connections; that’s what it means to be an expert. If an expert takes on this next step they would likely credit Amy for the discovery but they themselves would get ‘credit’ for proving it. That probably sounds like a bigger deal than it is. Publishing a paper on the topic is an application of their expertise and an expression of new knowledge gained. It’s a means to educate others, just in case it matters elsewhere. Being an expert in any area is not a contest, it’s means other’s can trust that you know what you are talking about. If a non-expert in this area were to publish the discovery they may find it hard to find anyone who will listen because there are probably a host of things they would miss.
@@frontenac5083 Your theory got wasted by this didn't it?
Most were found in military sites. Most Roman soldiers, contrary to popular belief, had to provide their own armor and clothing. They had chain armor, this could be the primary tool for that, plus jewellry if needed for bartering, plus weaving thread and rope. The 'Viking knit' you mention is probably a style BECAUSE of this and similar devices rather than the device created for the style
Well demonstrated and I think you are bang on the money 👍
I love it.👌
C'est génial. You should tell the Encyclopedy Britanica !
Fascinating!
That someone can come up with such BS and still be full of themselves certainly is!
Fantastic. This explains why the devices were often found with coins and other valuables.
Excellent Amy - I think you've solved the mystery!
Also, leather thong could be woven using this method to make super-strong leather cordage.
LOL!
You're using the word "think" rather liberally.
Yes, like harnessing reins for horses which why it was found at a military camp. I was laughing at video dismissing the knitting explanation while showing a classical style paint of battle which a soldier on a horse with knitted reigns and somehow the experts dismissed "knitting" based on idea that wouldn't have had different sized holes.
@@frontenac5083 Your theory got wasted by this didn't it?
Very cool!! 🤩
Brilliant!! Well done Amy Gaines!!
Wish I had one of these when I used to make 'chain mail' jewelry. Pulling the metal through smaller and smaller diameter dies makes me appreciate their ingenuity and Amy's insight into this very usable tool. Eat it crazy conspiracy theorists!!
If it turns out that opposite holes are the same size on all these dodecahedrons then your use of a wooden rod to aid the knitting/weaving process would seem to be correct.
Fantastic!!!
VERY CLEVER! THANK YOU!
This is amazing
The dodecahedrons are in fact a Tessera Arca (Knuckle Box ring sizer) and were used specifically to measure the fingers (knuckle) in order to size rings that were made from coins . Back in the day if you wanted a ring made from precious metal the easiest way to do this was to use an old coin. However this practise of destroying legal tender was just as illegal back in the day as it is in most countries today so the craftsmen and women who offered this service were usually transitory and highly secretive about their trade. This accounts for the service not being available in the Mediterranean (heart of the) Roman Empire, and generally practised in the North-West of the Empire. As such no dodecahedra have been found outside this region to date.
The client impressed and encouraged by the sheer craftsmanship of the dodecahedron, that was a remarkable feat of engineering skill in those days, would slip their chosen ring ringer or thumb into the 12 available holes of the dodecahedron until the correct fit was ascertained. The craftsman would then place the coin to be used (a 34mm Sestertius) over the hole using the surrounding nodules to hold the coin in position whilst it was scribed from the opposite side (from within the dodecahedron) with the outline of the circle.
The coin could now be removed from the tessera and worked. Firstly a hole would have been drilled and cut in the centre of the coin. in the centre of the coin, almost as wide as the guide mark. The coin would then be placed on a tapered metal spike and hammered with a soft mallet so it folds over until it makes a flat ring. A bit of filing and the ring is finished and fits perfectly.
A skilled technician could thus create a ring whilst his customer waited, in just a couple of hours, and then on receipt of payment disappear into the shadows. Of course there were easier ways to size a ring, they could have used a simple bunch of sample rings, but this would be much more conspicuous and far less alluring than a dodecahedron placed on a dimly lit tavern table, probably with a small candle lit inside to accentuate the object and add to its mysticism and curiosity. The tessera was not just a tool, it was a shop window advertising sign. And of course if the craftsman were caught in possession of a dodecahedron, well the authorities would be totally baffled and have no better idea of its actual use just as we do today.
It would be hysterical if we found modern jewelers have these tools in use every day, and the whole problem is that no one consulted them.
Brilliant! You did it. Can you keep us posted about this.
I think you solved it. Bravo!
excellent! thanks
Im convinced well done
Well Done!!
Only 1k views?! This needs more attention
What?
You misspelled "way less"!
@frontenac5083 You’ve been reported
@@frontenac5083 Your theory got wasted by this didn't it?
Thank you!
Leave it to women. I love this so much. Genius!
Brilliant! Bravo
This doesn't help explain why these are typically found at military sites however...
Wow! Congrats on this breakthrough! The mind of a knitter.........pulls the rabbit out of the hat!
Professor Alice Roberts did consider this as a possible use, but commented on an absence of wear on the larger dodecahedron example found at Norton Disney. This one, on analysis consisted of 25% lead contained in the alloy and so would have been soft enough to display wear on the friction points around the prominent nodule spheres on each corner, and there was none. However, the video demo evidence is compelling.
your video makes me want to own one lol As another commentator suggested, you should have them made up with instructions on how to use it, I’d buy one for sure!
Fascinante!
Hello,
Thank you for your idea !
What do you think about the use of the 3rd object in the lower-right-corner at 0:22 ?
But maybe it is incorrect to compare them...
Cordage as she shows at the end you don't need the holes.
thank you! Tracking this down took a minute
Pretty cool way to use it
Brava! How clever...
Great video, thank you.
I've used french dollies to weave chains before and when i saw these I thought about using these in a similar way. I had thought that the holes would work as a drawplate.
However i thought about putting the knitted chain through the hole the same way I do with the dolly and didn't think it would work too well.
I hadn't thought about doing the knitting downwards on the outside this way (despite doing similat with loops of copper wire as the starter instead of the knobs) so this video has rekindled my interest.
The only 2 problems that I have with this as the solution is that these have only been found in the north west provinces of the Roman Empire, which suggests that the solution might be based on the conditions in those areas, whereas a chain knitting tool would be of use in all provinces. Its colder along the shores of the North Sea than it is in the Med and North Africa which might lend credence to the glove knitting suggestions.
The other problem is that some of the dodecahedrons only have 3 knubs and also have closed sides so would not be useful to draw down the chain
Color me convinced. I wonder if also it could have been used to make rope or string too
making glove fingers was proven about 10 years ago, it's probably a multitool for all sorts of things
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL@@menkiboj
CLOWN@@menkiboj
@@frontenac5083 5 equally spaced "Holders" and center holes in different sizes, it's a multitool
@@menkibojit was never proven. Knitting was invented in Egypt between 500-1000AD. And they were socks. These devices were found in the northern reaches of the Roman Empire throughout a large range of land. Please don't spread historical misinformation. There is no known answer for their use.
THE ANCIENT ROMAN WERE VERY PRACTICAL PEOPLE. EXCELLENT WORK!
Excellent theory! Seems very likely.
I liked the coin game and candle holder, but this looks better. Do we find these braid patterns in gold or silver artifacts?
This is really cool! Not to nitpick but what about the dodecahedron that have been found which have much smaller holes, such as just millimeters across? Does the technique still work?
They might have been used for making the wire? They had to pull metal through plates with holes in them to get it uniform, starting with a lump or a rod.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_drawing
You wouldn't need the holes for cordage, just the chain.
I like the level of confidence, when the author states in the intro, as “solved” no you haven’t “solved it” it’s still a theory. Any tool used for the production of anything would have wear marks. These items don’t have any wear marks.
There is a question mark after "Solved"
Anything softer than bronze would not leave a mark.
The fact that this item has been found largely in excavations of ancient Roman camps might be due to the fact that garrison troops have time on their hands: This might be the way legionnaires made trinkets and crafts to supplement their incomes. My guess is that these tools were not cheap by the standards of Roman legionnaires. Their relative rarity might reflect that this is a high-skill-level activity that few soldiers would elect to engage in and even fewer could master.
Or how about this: soldiers got paint with coins, what do coins come in? Coin rolls. The device is used to weave the coin rolls, then one more thing, who do you show they haven't been tampered with back then? Seal the roll in wax. Viola! This thing is used to make rolls of coins, seal them and send them to places like banks, to soldiers, to statesmen...etc
My spontaneous idea for the purpose of this piece was to facilitate finding the correct ring size in jewelry making. The customer could insert their finger into the various holes to determine the appropriate size for their finger. Subsequently, the goldsmith could then use the template to design the ring or a similar piece of jewelry. This hypothesis would:
1. Explain the varying diameters of the openings.
2. Suggest that a goldsmith or blacksmith would likely possess the necessary skills to craft such an item.
3. Account for the frequency of findings without a description of such a "mundane" tool.
4. Indicate that while the concept remained consistent, the exact dimensions may have varied from dodecahedron to dodecahedron.
5. Highlight that the described usage would not lead to wear and tear on the object (what you would see when used as knitting device), allowing it to be used across generations without significant signs of use.
6. The markings around the holes help to identify which hole was chosen by the customer.
7. The object was also crafted in such an intricate manner to showcase the skills of the goldsmith to the customer. Someone who can create such a dodecahedron can also craft a piece of jewelry.
To refute this hypothesis, it would need to be demonstrated that the diameters are either too small or too large for typical fingers, which unfortunately cannot be verified based on the photos. Should the discovery sites be located near artisanal establishments, especially metallurgical facilities, this would provide further support for the theory.
My theory -- The versions with large holes were used for measuring rolled-up bolts of silk and/or other fabrics and/or paper for trading. The related icosahedron with much smaller holes may have been used to measure thread thickness. Similar items show up in Southeast Asia, in jewelry as beads, and may have represented those involved with trading textiles/silk/etc. Thus a trader would not need to unroll the silk/fabric/paper to measure it, rather the value could be judged based on thickness (and the spool diameter also measured using the holes). Also, my amateur understanding is the Greeks re-wove silk thinner to make more garments from a given length of silk. Hence those who traded with the Greeks for silk may have created a device like this to ensure they were getting their money's worth. The number of sides may have also been useful in determining the monetary amount represented by each hole and/or how to convert between different kinds of money. Apparently there are also wax-on-silk techniques for decorating silk, which might explain the wax residue found on some of them.
This is an interesting and well thought out and demonstrated theory. However, beyond the purpose or use of the "Roman" dodecahedron lies the unexplained question of why none have been found in the eastern part of the Roman empire or in Italy. Surely if they were valuable to the Romans for whatever reason (such as braiding chain or leather), many would have been brought back to or created in Rome and other parts of Italy. And they would have been documented in Roman writings and/or images. The so-called "Roman" dodecahedron is still an open mystery to me. 😀 🤟
Genius!
My thought before reading your video was that it is a measuring tool too. Because of the different size of the holes. But I had no idea for what. I was thinking more of a diameter measuring tool. But I like your idea, since you are able to make it work. It always bothers me went the first thing that comes to scientists' minds is that something is for religious or ritual purposes.
This could have been initially a jewellers tool but developed into a multi purpose standard ruler of sorts, as those hole sizes would have many uses. It’s also clearly a nice aesthetic object!
Now I want one