COMMENT I like that there is versatility in the build of your hive. As it's built with interlocking boxes, it makes it easier to carry to its location as opposed to one big heavy box, which would take two people carry.
Thank you for sharing this design and experience. My issue is to move my Layens Hive into Langstroth Frames to economise on extractors. I have a Langstoth extractor, as they are common in Australia. Ill let you know how I go, Kind regards Greg in Western Australia.
Nice job! I just started this year(21) and I caught 2 swarms with Dr. Leo's swarm traps. Ended up getting 18lbs of good organic honey. I could've taken more but figured its best to let them keep it for what looks to be a severe winter. Bee keeping is fun and quite easy and doesn't take too much time. Though you do have to plan things out. Only got stung twice! Both on my left glove. haha! Thanks for the informative vid!
Your bees did great to produce that much honey in the first year. I don't expect to have any to harvest this year. In large part that's a result of having done aggressive splits, raising multiple colonies to improve odds of winter survival instead of one strong productive colony. But I'm looking forward to harvest next year.
They could, and I've heard of some who've tried it (but don't recall having heard how well it worked), but it seems to me the bees may migrate across frames better if the frames are parallel to each other.
I just did this myself today only difference is that i had bought a colony in a horizonal Langstroth very cheaply made. So made my own so that i can eventually have them got yo layens as well. Had to move 13 frames by time i was done the bees where not happy to say the least. Really hoping my queen is on the layens side.
Thank you. What if I took my old langstroth frames with comb and laid them in the bottom of my Laydens hive, would the bees move up to my new Laydens frames?
I wouldn't favor this. Besides making the cells vertical instead of horizontal, which could be problematic for the bees, this would make one side of the frames inaccessible to the bees. I'm also not a big fan of rotating and hanging frames 90⁰, although many do it. I have seen some people make frames hangers that rest on the Layens frame rests and support the Langstroth frames perpendicular to the Layens frames. Another approach is someone who made a nuc box with a circular entrance, that matched an opening in the divider board, and they put the nuc inside of the hive, positioned so the bees had to go through the Layens frames to enter or exit.
Kind of not understanding you put the brood frames on the left side then you dumped the bees on the right side with a queen excluder to the right of the empty frames . My question is how is the queen going to get back to the brood frames on the left side 🤷♂️🤷♂️.
I see no good reason to shake bees off into the Layens side before hanging the Langstroth frame on the Langstroth side of the queen excluder. Find the queen first! Trap and place her on the Layens slde, and all bees will peacefully follow her over. Also see no need to tidy up the burr comb--once the langstroth side has eventually been abandoned is time enough to do burr comb tidying, I would have thought. I assume the nurse bees will tend to the baby bees until all are hatched and then all will retire permanently to the Layens side?
I'm happy to find this video. Im planning to switch to a Layens hive next spring. I'm concerned about moving the bees fron the langs frames and all icould find were videos about cutting apart the frames. Implanting to build a Layens hive using the plans on Dr. Leo's website. I assume I can use your box method to put the langs frames in the new hive. The only untreated beesin my area only come as nucs. I hope my current colony survives the New Hampshire winter. Any advice about the transfer?
You wouldn't be able to put the Langstroth frames in your Layens hive in the way that I show - they are about 5" longer than the Layens frames so will be too long to fit. My conversion hive is built from Langstroth boxes, so already wide enough for those frames and use an adapter for the Layens. But here's a suggestion for converting without having to do much construction, using Langstroth boxes it sounds like you already have: You can screw the top bars from Langstroth frames onto the top of a Layens frame, to hang the Layens frames in a Langstroth hive with two deep boxes. In early spring, at the beginning of a nectar flow, you can put a minimal number of Langstroth frames in the hive (either condensing your existing colony or using the frames from a nuc), stacked 2 deep all on one side of the hive - honey against the wall and brood toward the interior. Then fill the rest of the hive with Layens frames. Use an entrance reducer, with the entrance on the side of the hive with the Layens frames. As the nectar flow progresses the bees will build out the Layens frames and migrate their brood toward the hive entrance. Eventually they should have the Layens frames built out enough to move into your new hive. Depending on the strength of your nectar flow you might feed them to accelerate their comb production.
I like your box and how it can take both frames. I do think you don't need to knock all the bees off into the layens side because the way I understand it is the queen will lay eggs on the frames closest to the opening so if you just place the frames in on the left then open the center access hole and close the others they will shift the brood over to layens frames near the opening.
It's true that bees will typically put the brood close to the entrance. Had I just put the frames in they (likely) would have, very gradually, migrated the brood in that direction. But by shaking the bees on the Layens side, thus ensuring that's where the queen would be, with an excluder between the frames, that expedited the process and ensured that all new brood would be on the Layens frames only.
Do you have plans for making your conversion hive, with dimensions? If you use the layens side for brood, could you leave the Langstroth side for honey surplus? If possible, you would have the overwintering benefit of the layens and the Langstroth for extraction.
I don't have plans, but you're not the first to ask and I've been meaning to write up some sort of documentation. I'll try to finally get that done soon. There's no reason someone couldn't use the same concept in the way you describe: using Layens for brood and over-wintering while using Langstroth for honey. I don't plan to do that but the hive provides multiple possibilities.
Another question: Do you leave the Langstroth frames as honey supers, and the Layens for brood, or do you eventually eliminate the Langstroth? If they will use the Langstroth side for honey storage, there would be no need for a layens extractor, and I wouldn’t have to crush the comb to harvest honey.
My intent is to migrate completely off of the Langstroth frames. Someone could use this approach to leverage a Langstroth extractor, but because of my other Layens hives I need to buy and use a Layens extractor anyway. I also think it just simplifies hive management to keep a single size of frames in the Layens hives, rather than a hybrid approach. But, as you can tell from the video, I have no argument against experimentation and people finding what works for them.
@@SuburbanSodbuster Thanks. I have a Langstroth extractor from when I kept bees 20 years ago. I like the insulation possibilities of your conversion hive, and think I’ll experiment as you suggested.
It's nothing fancy - purchased from Amazon because it was cheap (there's a link in the store at suburbansodbuster.com). My biggest complaint is that the elastic straps slipped out of the metal adjusters pretty quickly and had to be stitched to stay in place. Beyond that I've liked it - it's compact and, so far, I haven't had any bees get inside. On several occasions I've forgotten that I was wearing it and tried to sample some honey through the screen, so it's not bothersome to wear.
Thanks for watching! I did a series on the Conversion Hive to track their progress; those videos are in this playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLASzpwvRS9cSbu7vfLdd-z9d8F6ugEGle.html. Or you can go straight to the most recent inspection of the hive here: ua-cam.com/video/5Ht5-AmUKKs/v-deo.html.
I was not concerned about a few days' brood break since there was plenty of brood in the Langstroth frames. Leaving the queen access to those frames would have worked against the goal of migrating to the Layens frames. Have you watched the follow-up videos to see how it turned out?
Interesting idea. But watching you struggle with assembling your creative design quickly negated the premise: the weight argument. Here’s an interesting challenge: you build your conversion hive and I’ll cut and tie/rubber band comb from the Langstroth frames into the Layens frames. Let’s see which method is more practical per time and material. Bonus points for resale value of leftover Langstroth equipment / smoker fuel. Is this why the gods created hobby beekeeping?
I don't understand why people that don't use the standard Langsthroth hive always blow hard to show how much better their unconventional hive is. I don't see a single commercial beekeeper using Layens hive. Commercial beekeepers are in for the money and if the Layens hive gave them an advantage they would certainly be using it.
Beekeeping doesn't have to be a one-size proposition, and there's no reason for backyard/hobbyist beekeepers to be forced into industrial beekeeping methodologies and equipment. From the beginning, Langstroth hives were designed for the benefit of industrial beekeepers, fitting 4 hives to a pallet for easy loading and transport. Georges de' Layens' hives, with a larger, horizontal box with thicker walls, are clearly not designed to be as portable. But it is more bee-centric, emulating the natural density that bees would find in a natural tree hollow - and providing a greater unobstructed vertical space on the frames. For a backyard beekeeper who has no need to transport hives to pollination contracts or migrate hives south to over-winter (a need mitigated by thicker hive walls), who wants to keep bees more naturally with less time spent for hive management, and who doesn't want to have to accept back issues as an inevitable consequence of beekeeping, using Layens hives can be a very practical choice. And I do understand that in Spain it's fairly common for commercial beekeepers to use Layens hives - so I suppose even that's a possibility.
light portable and plenty of dead. ... many countries use other types. don't think just cause the US mostly uses one style that it's the best one. it's just the easiest one to transport
Man, this really shows the difference between Layens and Langstroth. I really appreciate this video. Thank you
COMMENT
I like that there is versatility in the build of your hive. As it's built with interlocking boxes, it makes it easier to carry to its location as opposed to one big heavy box, which would take two people carry.
What a fine puzzle you have built there!
Necessity is the mother of invention
Wow! Very creative and well thought out! Great job!
Thank you for sharing this design and experience. My issue is to move my Layens Hive into Langstroth Frames to economise on extractors. I have a Langstoth extractor, as they are common in Australia. Ill let you know how I go,
Kind regards Greg in Western Australia.
Nice job! I just started this year(21) and I caught 2 swarms with Dr. Leo's swarm traps. Ended up getting 18lbs of good organic honey. I could've taken more but figured its best to let them keep it for what looks to be a severe winter. Bee keeping is fun and quite easy and doesn't take too much time. Though you do have to plan things out. Only got stung twice! Both on my left glove. haha! Thanks for the informative vid!
Your bees did great to produce that much honey in the first year. I don't expect to have any to harvest this year. In large part that's a result of having done aggressive splits, raising multiple colonies to improve odds of winter survival instead of one strong productive colony. But I'm looking forward to harvest next year.
Organic honey? No. Natural honey ? Yes
I had the same idea. I was just gong to attach a Layens swarm trap to the side of an old Langstroth deep. Yours is way cooler!
Really like that veil.
I got it on Amazon. Here's a link: amzn.to/3OabTSX
@@SuburbanSodbuster Thank You!
Like the hive could you please put the plans for it up
Great video!
just wondering why langstrom frames couldn't be turned 90 degrees from layens ?
They could, and I've heard of some who've tried it (but don't recall having heard how well it worked), but it seems to me the bees may migrate across frames better if the frames are parallel to each other.
Dear Sodbusters,,, What dose one have to do with the woodwhere of a deadout ,,, lots of bees headfirst in the cells brushed off what I could???
I just did this myself today only difference is that i had bought a colony in a horizonal Langstroth very cheaply made. So made my own so that i can eventually have them got yo layens as well. Had to move 13 frames by time i was done the bees where not happy to say the least. Really hoping my queen is on the layens side.
Beautiful box
Thank you. What if I took my old langstroth frames with comb and laid them in the bottom of my Laydens hive, would the bees move up to my new Laydens frames?
I wouldn't favor this. Besides making the cells vertical instead of horizontal, which could be problematic for the bees, this would make one side of the frames inaccessible to the bees. I'm also not a big fan of rotating and hanging frames 90⁰, although many do it. I have seen some people make frames hangers that rest on the Layens frame rests and support the Langstroth frames perpendicular to the Layens frames. Another approach is someone who made a nuc box with a circular entrance, that matched an opening in the divider board, and they put the nuc inside of the hive, positioned so the bees had to go through the Layens frames to enter or exit.
Kind of not understanding you put the brood frames on the left side then you dumped the bees on the right side with a queen excluder to the right of the empty frames . My question is how is the queen going to get back to the brood frames on the left side 🤷♂️🤷♂️.
Well , that’s one way to do it.
I see no good reason to shake bees off into the Layens side before hanging the Langstroth frame on the Langstroth side of the queen excluder. Find the queen first! Trap and place her on the Layens slde, and all bees will peacefully follow her over. Also see no need to tidy up the burr comb--once the langstroth side has eventually been abandoned is time enough to do burr comb tidying, I would have thought. I assume the nurse bees will tend to the baby bees until all are hatched and then all will retire permanently to the Layens side?
did you miss that he was cleaning burr comb off the bottom?
Do those dogs bark like that very often? It's continuous so far.
Great job man 👍 thanks,. liked 👍 and subscribed 👍
I'm happy to find this video. Im planning to switch to a Layens hive next spring. I'm concerned about moving the bees fron the langs frames and all icould find were videos about cutting apart the frames. Implanting to build a Layens hive using the plans on Dr. Leo's website. I assume I can use your box method to put the langs frames in the new hive. The only untreated beesin my area only come as nucs. I hope my current colony survives the New Hampshire winter. Any advice about the transfer?
You wouldn't be able to put the Langstroth frames in your Layens hive in the way that I show - they are about 5" longer than the Layens frames so will be too long to fit. My conversion hive is built from Langstroth boxes, so already wide enough for those frames and use an adapter for the Layens. But here's a suggestion for converting without having to do much construction, using Langstroth boxes it sounds like you already have:
You can screw the top bars from Langstroth frames onto the top of a Layens frame, to hang the Layens frames in a Langstroth hive with two deep boxes. In early spring, at the beginning of a nectar flow, you can put a minimal number of Langstroth frames in the hive (either condensing your existing colony or using the frames from a nuc), stacked 2 deep all on one side of the hive - honey against the wall and brood toward the interior. Then fill the rest of the hive with Layens frames. Use an entrance reducer, with the entrance on the side of the hive with the Layens frames. As the nectar flow progresses the bees will build out the Layens frames and migrate their brood toward the hive entrance. Eventually they should have the Layens frames built out enough to move into your new hive. Depending on the strength of your nectar flow you might feed them to accelerate their comb production.
I like your box and how it can take both frames. I do think you don't need to knock all the bees off into the layens side because the way I understand it is the queen will lay eggs on the frames closest to the opening so if you just place the frames in on the left then open the center access hole and close the others they will shift the brood over to layens frames near the opening.
It's true that bees will typically put the brood close to the entrance. Had I just put the frames in they (likely) would have, very gradually, migrated the brood in that direction. But by shaking the bees on the Layens side, thus ensuring that's where the queen would be, with an excluder between the frames, that expedited the process and ensured that all new brood would be on the Layens frames only.
Do you have plans for making your conversion hive, with dimensions? If you use the layens side for brood, could you leave the Langstroth side for honey surplus? If possible, you would have the overwintering benefit of the layens and the Langstroth for extraction.
I don't have plans, but you're not the first to ask and I've been meaning to write up some sort of documentation. I'll try to finally get that done soon. There's no reason someone couldn't use the same concept in the way you describe: using Layens for brood and over-wintering while using Langstroth for honey. I don't plan to do that but the hive provides multiple possibilities.
Another question: Do you leave the Langstroth frames as honey supers, and the Layens for brood, or do you eventually eliminate the Langstroth? If they will use the Langstroth side for honey storage, there would be no need for a layens extractor, and I wouldn’t have to crush the comb to harvest honey.
My intent is to migrate completely off of the Langstroth frames. Someone could use this approach to leverage a Langstroth extractor, but because of my other Layens hives I need to buy and use a Layens extractor anyway. I also think it just simplifies hive management to keep a single size of frames in the Layens hives, rather than a hybrid approach. But, as you can tell from the video, I have no argument against experimentation and people finding what works for them.
@@SuburbanSodbuster Thanks. I have a Langstroth extractor from when I kept bees 20 years ago. I like the insulation possibilities of your conversion hive, and think I’ll experiment as you suggested.
Mine are more sting-y when I talk with my hands too. 😅😅
sure hope you have a laying queen, because that took so long ,you lost hundreds of nurse bee's due to "old age" Keep us posted !
Tell me about your veil. How do you like that?
It's nothing fancy - purchased from Amazon because it was cheap (there's a link in the store at suburbansodbuster.com). My biggest complaint is that the elastic straps slipped out of the metal adjusters pretty quickly and had to be stitched to stay in place. Beyond that I've liked it - it's compact and, so far, I haven't had any bees get inside. On several occasions I've forgotten that I was wearing it and tried to sample some honey through the screen, so it's not bothersome to wear.
To make it easier on yourself, you might want to add some handles
How did this work out
Thanks for watching! I did a series on the Conversion Hive to track their progress; those videos are in this playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLASzpwvRS9cSbu7vfLdd-z9d8F6ugEGle.html. Or you can go straight to the most recent inspection of the hive here: ua-cam.com/video/5Ht5-AmUKKs/v-deo.html.
You needed to let that queen stay on the brood. She has now where to lay until they build out comb.
I was not concerned about a few days' brood break since there was plenty of brood in the Langstroth frames. Leaving the queen access to those frames would have worked against the goal of migrating to the Layens frames. Have you watched the follow-up videos to see how it turned out?
Interesting idea. But watching you struggle with assembling your creative design quickly negated the premise: the weight argument. Here’s an interesting challenge: you build your conversion hive and I’ll cut and tie/rubber band comb from the Langstroth frames into the Layens frames. Let’s see which method is more practical per time and material. Bonus points for resale value of leftover Langstroth equipment / smoker fuel. Is this why the gods created hobby beekeeping?
I don't understand why people that don't use the standard Langsthroth
hive always blow hard to show how much better their unconventional hive is.
I don't see a single commercial beekeeper using Layens hive.
Commercial beekeepers are in for the money and if the Layens hive gave them an advantage they would certainly be using it.
Beekeeping doesn't have to be a one-size proposition, and there's no reason for backyard/hobbyist beekeepers to be forced into industrial beekeeping methodologies and equipment. From the beginning, Langstroth hives were designed for the benefit of industrial beekeepers, fitting 4 hives to a pallet for easy loading and transport. Georges de' Layens' hives, with a larger, horizontal box with thicker walls, are clearly not designed to be as portable. But it is more bee-centric, emulating the natural density that bees would find in a natural tree hollow - and providing a greater unobstructed vertical space on the frames. For a backyard beekeeper who has no need to transport hives to pollination contracts or migrate hives south to over-winter (a need mitigated by thicker hive walls), who wants to keep bees more naturally with less time spent for hive management, and who doesn't want to have to accept back issues as an inevitable consequence of beekeeping, using Layens hives can be a very practical choice.
And I do understand that in Spain it's fairly common for commercial beekeepers to use Layens hives - so I suppose even that's a possibility.
light portable and plenty of dead. ... many countries use other types. don't think just cause the US mostly uses one style that it's the best one. it's just the easiest one to transport