Was the "30 Years old" comment meant to come across as calling him old? I interpreted it more as "You're an adult, don't just mute, be mature about it"
@@adrianaxelsson9065 Yes it was, I agree with what James is trying to get across but he could've easily gotten the point across in a non-toxic way by saying "You're an adult"
@@swinkyy7846 That *is* what he said, just with a specific age. We're WoW players, not fortnite players-- calling someone 30 isn't just a childish insult, it *was* to emphasize that he's acting like a child, not whatever nonsense the early 20 viewers in chat seem to be taking it as (and god only knows why Max took it that way)
Yeah I was gonna say, I don't think that was supposed to be an insult. That was more "you're 30, you have kids, yet you're acting like a toddler. Grow up."
@@dreadfury2485 nah fam, that's an underhanded insult. You can fuck off w/ that mindset. He is totally within his right to mute up and be mad at a group of people shitting on him then go take a breather. They can fuck off. That's the equivalent as anyone saying "you are [insert certain age], you shouldn't be playing games or watching youtube anymore."
I've been watching Ellesmere's stream on and off for some time now and whenever this sort of situation happens he has to take the brunt of the crap, the amount of shit he got thrown in his direction is beyond me
ellesmere's got an impressive amount of shit on his screen that he DOES pay attention to to account for a lot of these things, and he still gets more flame than I've seen most people. its unbearable to listen to even as a bystander
Telling someone to *act their age* isn't out of line, but the way / tone and expression he used was a childish way of putting it. And this comes from a 30year old world first gamer in multiple games 😅 That being said, experienced the same thing many times and so many people speak before thinking especially when already annoyed.
Yeah, I didn't understand why they thought that line in particular was so bad. He was telling him to act like a mature adult, which he clearly wasn't at the moment.
Because its another challenge to his face when he's already dealing with the key that just happened. It's funny to me people.telling others to act their age when they really just mean have more emotional control because i don't right now. Also act your age? You're playing a fucking game, yall should go act your age and go to work or some shit and not argue over a fucking game
Big disagree with Growl here. I watch Ellesmere's stream on a regular basis and nerf is usually a giant dick and elles always rolls with the punches and tries to stay positive but honestly nerf is so toxic that Im surprised it did even last that long.
growl is also very toxic so its difficult to take his opinion on this seriously, he has the typical WoW elitist personality. Imagine having an ego for being the best at an esport that nobody takes seriously as an e-sport.
It is crazy Growl making the defense that Nerf saying "Yo, don't overlap my stuns" and "I hate playing with this healer" or asking "which global did you just press" is not barking but JPC and Ellesmere saying "You didn't call it" is barking. Nerf called them out for their mistake, they called him out on his, and then he turned into a 5 year old with a tantrum. Nerf was the toxic one in this interaction - not the rest of the people. Even if Nerf got tilted from being called out on being non-verbal in an easy key, it is wild to just completely ignore them the rest of the key and after. It was clear JPC was fed up with Nerf being a baby.
As a tank, I can see Growls point. It’s a stressful environment to be tanking something that high even if it is an easy key, and to have to call every stun makes you feel like the other 4 members are mindless key pressers. IF there was an established order, AND they have been running keys for months, THEN if can go unspoken. I think nerf’s response was a little harsh leading to the meltdown, but all-in-all I think they all were wrong and this was recoverable with a little bit of humbleness. I think this meltdown was months in the making. I’ve been on Nerfs streams when he’s tanking raid last season and wiping on the second to last boss and I’ve seen him loose his shit before, this appears to be an ongoing issue. I suffer personally from outburst of frustration at times and it’s been a life long struggle to keep them under control. I can sympathize with Nerf but I can also see where he’s totally wrong.
Yeah totally agree. I think Growl has a point about the reason why Nerf was frustrated. I can see why he would be. BUT Nerf did not address this reasoning, by explaining that he just wants to rely on the CC order instead of calling things out all the time. Instead he just randomly blamed in a toxic way and got blamed back, at which point he just turned into a 5 year old as you said. So even if you assume Growl is right about the reasoning, which we don't know, but makes sense at least, Nerf is absolute at fault for his reaction in this specific scene. Also Ellesmere reflected on the situation quiet fairly, while Nerf did absolutely not.
the thing is nerf called them out for not doing their characters responsiblities in THE GAME . They call nerf out for ? literally not saying it . The responsibility to call stuff is just thrown at him by default cuz no one else wants to do it so yeah its literally barking when they can't call stuff and whine when nerf didn't call it and its literally a repeat key for them which is easy and done million times before they should know that nerf cc's first like they've done it a lot does he need to call it every single day ? i don't think so . I agree that muting for the whole dungeon is a bit overkill but i see the point of nerf definitetly.
@@joshpotter574 questioning it cuz they're doing it wrong ? If everything is up , its generally nerf first . Even elle admits that he panic pressed it so calling it out is definitely not toxic
ngl anyone who thinks "ur 30" is a solid and valid point to make in ANY discussion or fight is straight up projecting. Do you know what adults dont do? Appealing to ones age when someone is in emotional distress.
Everyone gets at least 1 freebie each season. There's been times where someones like, i'm just not feeling it tonight, lets pick back up tomorrow and you go about ur day.
No lets be real, having done 25+ keys with my guildies, they are all toxic as fuck and instead of dealing with it as adults they all went baby mode. its just sad
@@Menaceirl more like he probably tried shot calling for a day or not and realized how exhausting it is. So he understand how nerf feel when JPC said "" you didnt call it!"" as if it was somehow nerf mistake to not call a CC rotation they have praticed a thousand time over.
@@vincenthamel3420 then nerf shouldn't get so pressed over 1 overlapped cc in a homework key if he isn't gonna call out like i'd assume he usually does.
@@JustEclecticV1 It's simply amaze me how dependant people are on shot caller babysitting them from A to Z every day, despite being "professional" gamers. Go shotcall for a week or two then come back.
The funniest part of this entire situation for me is that nothing even happened when they overlapped CCs lol. Didn't cause a death, wipe, deplete or anything and Nerf had a breakdown over it kek
what happened is burnout from being the shot caller, and his teammate acting like it's his responsability to call out for the 1001th time a CC rotation they all know and have done multiple time. if anyone want to step up to shotcall for their group, go for it! But we all know it sucks.
@@vincenthamel3420 Yeah so...as the shot caller he didn't call the shot. Whether its burnout or not its still his fault... It's like if they pulled a boss and Ellesmere went afk to get some food and they all died, then he said heal yourselves and muted
@@Crobian no, as a team who went over the CC rotation a thousand time it shouldn't be on Nerf shoulder to remind them every single effin pack what the rotation is. Tanks are not your personal DBM assistant. take some accountability.
@@vincenthamel3420100% this. Trying to guide a grp of monkeys through the same key for the tenth time and they still won't stay outside even though you call "wait here" EVERY - SINGLE - TIME. And the single time you sont call it the monkeys come running in after you. Same goes for first left pull in atal dazar. I always call out the same kick order on the 2 casters. ie x and z on augur x kick first and me and healer on disciple, me first. We do this EVERY - SINGLE - TIME. But the one time I don't say it and only say I'm first on disciple healer next. And I take for granted the other DPS will take care of the augur.... The key goes to hell beacuae "wtf you didn't call anything"
I don't watch any of these guys enough to feel strongly about any of them but as someone who plays a lot of competitive games in high intensity environments where emotions can run high, I think he handled it very maturely. Obviously Nerf had a moment, everyone does but doubling down and sitting on a high horse claiming accountability doesn't bode particularly well to both his teammates and spectators.@@Menaceirl
as a healer i can say that when some one says "im dead" i do infact pull out everything in the book at them to be like but did you die? it is some sort of healing flex
I have a friend, whether its on warzone, wow, any game - will always say “im down/dead/pick me up” before hes actually dead. So now i just let him die 😏
"Can i have one heal" Is the fastest way to get to the healer's shitlist. If the healer is not healing you, it's because they are busy saving someone else's ass, and not that they are just staring at your health bar go down and choosing to do nothing.
its strong communication imo. If you just start screeching into the mic 'Im dead' I will press every single button on my bars instantly. takes no effort or thought, just pure reaction gameplay.
Yeah Growl is straight gaslighting here. Nothing that occurred deserved the offending action (going mic off headphones out). If Nerf was having such a tough time with the barking then he needs to be adult about it, either leave the team or share the growing frustration. Also, the fact that Growl feels he needs to come on and "explain" doesn't show loyalty, it shows this behavior is standard for this Nerf dude.
It's not the tanking that's exhausting. it's the shotcalling (and nobody is stepping up to shotcall, are they?) In particular, they have ran hundred of key together, went over the CC rotation thousand of time.... but somehow if he doesnt call it out for the 1001th time everyone brain drip out of their ears and they forget what to do? It might be a surprise to be people who have never shotcall anything ever in WoW ( which is the vast majority of player) but... people don't sign up to be your personal DBM assistant.
@@vincenthamel3420 "If Nerf was having such a tough time with the barking then he needs to be adult about it, either leave the team or share the growing frustration"
@@vincenthamel3420 Him being frustrated and having issues is entirely justified. Acting like a 5 year old throwing a tantrum because you're frustrated when you're trying to do stuff people want to take seriously is very much not.
@@daniellucas5522 go shotcall for a week or two and see how non-frustrated you get when teammate blame you for not being their personal DBM assistant 24/7
Growl is so incredibly biased in this take. Saying that Elles and JPC barked at Nerf is crazy. Changing his story several times to fit his narrative when Max pushes back. I get that you think Nerf is not completely at fault, and I agree, but the take is still so far off. I honestly questioned his sanity at times listening to him. Maybe its a streamer thing since they do not have to deal with the general public out in the world as much? (Outside of chat, which is a different beast.) It honestly feels like Growl is great at the M+ side of WoW and not so much the social side of it. Never change though, I need the M+ tips.
He probably tried shotcalling a few time, understand of exhausting it is, and how ridiculous it is that NErf's teammate somehow expect him to shotcall a CC rotation they have praticed a 1000 times.
I don’t understand why any one thinks saying “you’re 30 years old…” is a crazy wrong thing to say. He’s literally just saying act your age, imagine being at your job and your co-worker just gives you the silent treatment? Dudes acting like a child, James was just saying like bro what are you doing? Get it together, you’re 30 years old not 17… y’all are super soft lol. This whole thing is stupid though tbh.
@@rkale77 some of these people are just kids in an adult's body mate. They still get mad af playing the game and they act superior to others because they have a high rating or something. Of course they're going to do the silent treatment. I play games too and I'm 29 but holy shit, act your age. You either solve the issue or just don't play with them anymore. Or don't say anything in the first place until you finish the key
i mean he did jsut that and everones shitting on him for it. He stopped talking finished the key and then ahsnt played with them sence. seems like a perficaly resaonable way to handle this@@someguy3508
I just skip everything involving Growl. He spams shit like "Chat" "Civilians" and constantly shits on people not in his friend group. Then he says that THEY dont have social skills... like.... irony in the highest degree@@KhandeeTV
I love Growl, but he was trying way to hard to deflect the blame to "chat being ignorant." It doesn't take being a professional M+ player to see the issues that were going on here.
For closed groups of people like that one with a lot of shit happening outside your scope as a viewer you can miss out on a lot of important context. It is a reasonable take.
the vast majority of WoW playerbase expect addons / raid leader / tank to call out everything and anything they ever have to do in any content. DPS often act like it's impossible for them to figure out when to lust without the tank telling them to. even in 25s and 26s. So yes, anyone in these comment saying nerf over-reacted to one overlappped CC do not see what is going on. at all.
what you guys think its toxic, its actually not... do you always speak in received pronounciation with your friends?! or do you sometimes fuck around and say stupid shit?! its the same thing... only difference is, their conversations are being listened to by thousands every day
It doesnt even matter who messed up the CC. The reaction to the situation is what matters. Looking how they reacted to the mistake, its hard to not see that Nerf was in the wrong. Literal temper tantrum, toxic behavior. And then growl is explaining why Nerf got upset, but who cares? All temper tantrums come from someone being upset, but you're supposed to stop reacting like a child, as they explained, well before the time you're 30+ 😂
the mistake is not the stun overlap. the mistake is despite going over the CC rotation a thousand time they still act like if nerf don't call out everything, all the time, then their brain fall out of their ears and they forget how to do stuff. they are the best player in the world. they have ran hundred of key together. they shouldn't need a personal DBM assistant to remind them what to do. People who don't shotcall don't get how incredibly exhausting it is
@@vincenthamel3420 Nobody cares. The people who are mad at WHY he was mad are dumb, the point is that the way he handled the fact that he got mad and that he doubled down on it makes him look like a manchild
@@MegaCapo85 oh yeah. nice deflection. "" nobody care why you were mad! we care about how it inconvenienced us afterward!"" I mean, it goes hand-in-hand with the "" I can't possibly know when to use abilities unless you tell me when and where!"" that started this shitshow.
I don't think the 30 year old comment is as big a flame as it was made out to be. I interpret it closer to you are to old to act like this. Not a dig at him being older.
Every explanation he gave did not help the cause. Nerf didnt say “can you guys please stop overlapping on my stun” He whinged so hard saying “he keeps overlapping” and whining about it while pointing blame. Obviously itll make people become defensive.
go shotcall for a day or two . repeat the same CC rotation a hundred time. see how you react when someone BS you about not calling it a 101th time. They are the best of the best player, pushing rank 1 keys. The tank shouldnt have ot micro manage all their CD on eveyr pull of every dungeon.
@@vincenthamel3420 “I got stun” isnt micro managing. He said more words and spent more energy whining about it than he could have used to communicate maturely.
@@krackawoody2556 OH yes. I'm sure " i got stun" is the only thing he ever had to shotcall for this entire dungeon. or the entire day. or the entire 2 month season they've been playing together.
Go shotcall in top-end content for a week or two and tell me how calm you remain when the DPS pretend it's your fault for not calling out the CC rotation you've praticed 1000 time
@@vincenthamel3420 No, the world first DPS rogue got sick of the tank acting like a 5 year old because someone made a mistake which they later admitted to and apologised for. Acting like mature adults is apparently not something that people understand. If you don't enjoy the game, don't play it.
What I have noticed from watching a LOT of ellesmere keys; Nerf is great to he around when everyone is locked in, but he also loves going in on people for little mistakes, and loves to poke at people, but cannot take it at all.
I'm confused that JPCs comment about nerf being in is 30s is taken so harshly. I am also in my late 30s, but I just took it as JPC calling out that he should act his age and maybe be more mature about this rather than calling him ancient or something.
Was the best part. 100% with him on this one. The defense was so good feels like he is just roleplaying healer: "Chat can't keep a group for 3 keys" should have made everyone shut the fuck up instantly
Growls take was awful, imo. I know he wants to defend Nerf, but there just isn't any defending his actions there. Even in Nerfs own defense he called out why there's as much drama as there is. "Accountability". Now, as Max said, we don't know if they actually spoke to each other off stream, and if they did, great! If not, and he wants to call "chat" out for being low IO due to lack of accountability, seems like a case of hypocrisy. Growl calling out "chat" because most of us aren't doing 30+ keys is kind of cringe as well. It's true, 99.9% of us aren't doing keys at his level, but that doesn't mean we don't play in a similar fashion with people. Most people are playing with others that are around the same skill level. If that level is 25s or 16s, kind of beside the point. If a peer of mine, just as good as me, made a mistake, and I went non verbal comms for the rest of the key/night, you bet your ass they'd be pissed. Key level has nothing to do with it. He was acting childish by pulling that stunt. Also, when JPC made that comment about being "30 years old", that's exactly what he meant, stop acting like a bitch, own up to the mistake, and move on.
Most people dont run hundred of key in a season. Most people don't have a premade for all of those. Most people don't play at a level where every non interrupted/stopped ability kill someone, hence requiring a perfect CC chain and nearly every pack. Most people don't pratice a CC rotation a thousand time due to the previous point. Most people don't shotcall, which is incredibly exhausting to do while playing at such a high level. so no, most people do not understand. And to Growl point : expecting Nerf to call out every ability every mob every dungeon every day while his teammate act like they have no idea what to do if he doesn't call it out.... that's insane.
So Growl think it's okay for Nerf to respond by muting himself, but the way James responded back is wrong ? And Nerf might be his "boy" but good friends keep each other acountable and dont enable this behaviour. Also saying "the people" not being able to relate to this is dead wrong. Yes, the level that these streamers/pro-players play in is a level I will probably never reach. But the same focus, pressure, intensity that they experience in a +30, a player can also have the same in a +15.
Growl talks about the known bug that happens every key tilting the tank. What about when the tank told the healer to use another global instead of tiger palm to heal him, when he was on full HP with no instant vivify charge up or external up, while tiger palm is part of his healing, then told him to say every global he wants to use. Then made a single mistake the next pull by stunning in a moment of panic and got his head snapped off when it truly wasn't called. Then after pointing that out was told "I hate playing with you all the time". That's probably the most tilting shit you can have happen in a key as a healer, tanks being dumbasses who think you have to play perfectly to cover them, even when you truly had nothing left to move their hp. You have to remember most heals are balanced to heal DPS health bars, not tank ones which are generally 3-4x bigger. Honestly it just seems like the communication needs active work. It's fine to say things are hard, the way to fix it is to talk about what is happening, assign some responsibility. If Ellesmere is always accidently stunning first, and that's shitting you. Maybe move his stun to be first, or maybe micromanage it for him for a while, and accept that when you're not something is going to slip occasionally. Responsibility isn't about assinging fault or blame, it's about trying to solve a problem.
I love it when my teammate act like it's my fault I didn't tell them to press (or not press ) their key. It's not like these guy have ran hundred of key together THIS season, went over the CC rotation a thousand time, executed said rotation 40 second ago on the other maggot pull... naaah. it's the tank job to call out every ability, on every pull, of every key, every day. Anythingelse is preposterous... what, are non-tank player supposed to think about what's coming in the next 4-5 second and plan ahead? Unthinkable!
Do you just not have a group that you run keys with consistently that has a shotcaller? Becoming reliant on the shotcaller is very much a thing and *literally the intended purpose of a shotcaller*.
@@smurfaccount9269 you are missing the point. Shotcalling is exhausting. especially shotcalling trivial stuff that you have repeated a thousand time, in every key, on every week. Nobody shotcall because they want to. people start to shotcall because they HAVE to and it's extremely exhausting. Nerf in particular talked multiple time about not wanting to shotcall anymore... but it's not like you'll see anyonelse step up to the role and no. shotcalling is still notbeing your personal DBM assistant.
@@vincenthamel3420 Shotcalling being exhausting doesn't justify his actions, he's still messing up. Using the example found in the video we're commenting on: if Liquid_Maximum shuts down during raid did he make a mistake? Absolutely. "Shotcalling is still not being your personal DBM assistant" you're correct it's not, no one said that. However, players do become reliant on it. Given you're watching this content, I assume you raid. Have you ever had a call that is constantly made: "pre-spread for seeds (Tindral)", "move away from portals (Smolderon)", "stack for roots (Tindral)" that seems trivial? Those callouts are similar to shotcalls here: they're obvious, they're exhausting over sufficiently large periods of time, and they're critical because people become reliant on them *because they should be*, instead of focusing on those things they can focus on their own play, hence the 21st man that Nerf was talking about in his response. A shotcaller is *literally* there to take care of these kind of things, hence why Liquid_Max's CC weakaura wasn't meant to replace shotcalling but assist him with it.
@@smurfaccount9269 Maximum is not playing while shot claling.... he stepped out of the raiding roster for that precise reason. Maximum WANT to shotcall, nerf dont Max shotcall in raid, where everyfight is unique, he doesnt have to shotcall a CC rotation they have done ten thousand time. Now please stop expecting tanks to be your personal babysitter telling you what to do on every single pull of every single dungeon and take some accountability.
If we completely take out the fact that this is WoW or a video game, it's clear that Growl and Nerf are just terrible communicators and the people around them have just adjusted and gotten used to their toxicity. Constantly referring to the fact that people who aren't a high io just don't understand, and especially Growl referencing people not wanting to add rando's to their friends list is just a ton of deflection. When you're doing literally anything at a high level it's critical that you get feedback from your team if you want to improve. So Growl and Nerf repeatedly saying stuff like "Well yeah obviously we have to call things out when people make a mistake!!" is not untrue, but both of them are completely refusing to acknowledge HOW you give feedback. If you give valid feedback, but say it like a complete asshole and then mute yourself right after that's just terrible communication. You can tell someone they made a mistake without being a complete asshole about it, and 90% of the time people don't remember what exactly you said, they remember how you said it or how it made them feel. Nerf talking about people in chat not taking responsibility while simultaneously not acknowledging one single mistake he made in that interaction is wild.
Growl taking a huge L with his takes on this one. The entire basis of Growl's argument is surrounded with "probablys" even though this is consistent behavior that Nerf exhibits. Nerf was literally the first person to start freaking out about the overlapped stuns and then he starts making up scenarios in his head about what he did/didn't say after being called out for freaking out. And then going on to say that this team has been playing together for a long time, or at least some members of it, and the dude can't handle being called out for something and his response is to mute, unplug his headphones, completely silent, is totally childish. I wouldn't want to play with someone who has such a fragile ego like that regardless of how good they are. What gathering from this whole thing is that M+ players are completely unhinged and should maybe take some time away from the game to read a book or something.
If you think this is about a stun overlap, and not Nerf getting burned out from having to shotcall stuff they have praticed a thousand time before, you didn't listen to Growl. Go try to shotcall for a week or two and tell me how you feel about the role.
If the overlap wasnt a big deal, then why does nerf initiate the argument. Saying its not a big deal cause its a routine key then why call it out, people know not to overlap, there is no reason to call it out at that point. Its no wonder people respond with the same energy he gave out. But he dished it and couldnt take it. Everyone else tried to be respectful afterwards by trying to complete the key, James was even somewhat respectful in the way he decided not to stay in the group, and ellesmere took responsibility for the little mistake that was way overblown. But nerf didnt try to resolve the conflict he instead escalated it by leaving and ignoring his team. While its resonable to understand some of the frustration he feels as presented by Growl, its just not a mature way to deal with your peers.
what is a big deal is that they ran hundred of key together, went over the CC rotation a thousand time, but his teammate still somehow act like it's his duty to call out every ability every time on every pack otherwise their brain fall out and nobody know what to do. it's incredibly exhausting to be the shotcaller in top-end content Having your teammate ( who are amongst the best player in WoW) blame you for not telling them when and where to press their abilities even in the most mundane situation where they have nothingelse to worry about... I didnt sign up to be your personal DBM assistant.
@vincenthamel3420 that's still not a big deal. Especially here where it literally didn't matter. Also they didnt start flaming him out of nowhere. he lashed out himself in a very negative way. And made it a big deal
@@Uncle-Ruckus. That Vincent tool has been DEEEEEEEP throating Nerf the entire time in this thread. It is very pathetic. He unironically calls people 'noob'. Get a grip.
Growl likes to be a bit of a contrarian.. that being said you probably are one of those non-verbal puggers who dosen't say anything and leaves as soon as the key is over. so he ain't wrong
Because you saw Growl in the title name, and you've never shotcalled in WoW so you don't know how frustrating it is to repeat something a 1000 time just to have your teammate fuck up when you don't call it out the 1001th time?
Nerfs points are mainly his, his and his wrongs makes my wrong a right. Also the team chemestry might be in the bin when someone berates the others on a daily basis. Just go back to any wods and listen... Ellesmere gets soo much crap thrown his way every stream. Its a one way street most of the time. Someone needs to act as an adult
So easy to pick a scapegoat and just throw it all at them innit Tanks are underappreciated, and shotcallers too, ego also plays a high role in that, if you feel like your team just stopped respecting you for what you do that makes you doubt yourself and thag just never makes you play better. If you wanna make out whos wrong that should be inside the group and after the key not in the middle of a tilter thats just a recipie for disaster. Conflict management is not as easy as to just blame one person, thats just unfair
I don't know man. If I play with the same people for several hundred key and go over a CC rotation over a thousand time... I kind of expect people to remember it without me shotcalling everything on everypull on everykey, everyday. People who never shotcall anything ever in WoW don't understand how mentally exhausting it is to have to track 25 more CD and constantly call them out.
@@vincenthamel3420it’s fine to expect them to know, but he’s the one who whined about it when everyone else is vibing in a hw key Then when told he didn’t call it, his response was that he did (he called it after pressing the stun)
in pugs? they don't people will curse you to hell before they admit they made a mistake, hell ive seen guilds fall apart because an officer or something got called out for making a mistake. in a more "hardcore" environment like mythic raiding and high keys that require coordination more people tend to own up to mistakes because they value the time they put in but also the time of their teammates
I personally hate the "like an adult" saying. I'm 38, and 90% of the day i am totally not an adult - no matter how old you are, we're barely "adult" most of the time. Yes, Nerf could've said something, but that has very little to do with "being an adult".
The growl take is rough cause if he isnt going to call his stun out then its either person's guess who it should be, but Nerf blames Ellesmere immediately. It isnt a bullying thing, its just laziness on Nerf's end
That's the other thing that drives me crazy with Growl's argument that makes no fuckin sense. He somehow tries to use the fact that shotcalling is exhausting and Nerf has to put up with so much from his teammates, but Nerf is the one that started the whole fuckin argument to begin with, yelling at the other guys for fucking it up. Like no one said a damn word about him not making a call until he bitched at them first with a terrible tone. So of course their gonna defend themselves and explain "Yeah no one made a call, so I used my stop". Dumbest take imaginable from Growl.
If Nerf is the usual caller though, and doesn't call anything because its a homework key anyways, then as part of that team I'd assume he's the one that's gonna stun first though? I mean, he's definetly the "toxic one" in the group lets be honest (although often enough it seems more bantery, cuz atleast ellesmere never takes it seriously) - anyone that watches Ellesmere from time to time, but I feel like in that specific situation he was in the right and from then on they just barked at each other cuz one party took it more serious than the other. After the key, JPC just started piling on - probably just should've let it lie after the blood started boiling, let the game lie for the day and come back to the situation when things have calmed a lil.
no. they have ran hundred of key together and went over the CC rotation a thousand time. They have a set rotation.... but somehow if nerf don't call it out every time on every pull of every key his teammate act like it's his fault and there's no way anyonelse could have had a clue on what to do?
How da hell is growl going to say OH chat doesn't have social skills! And then say it's too high of a standard to take accountability for your actions and behavior
taking accountability.... like blaming the tank for not calling out the CC rotation they have praticed a thousand time? Because it's clearly the tank job to be everyone personal DBM assistant and micromanage eveyr CD on every pull of every dungeon? that kind of accountability? To summarize growl take : people who have never shotcalled anything in WoW ( which is the vast majority of the playerbase) don't get how exhausting it is to micromanage everyone all the time
Max is right about the tanks flaming healer thing. Sometimes healers could've done better and kept a tank alive, but almost never for DKs or DHs is that true while also them playing better wouldn't have made them survive too. Sucks to play those tanks and get those moments, but hating on the healer is just going to make them more stressed and probably toss the tank more heals than is needed, which is cringe for the dps.
I have watched Ellesmere and crew A LOT and Nerf is just really bad at accepting any kind of responsibility for stuff going wrong. He will basically always blame Ellesmere, no matter what actually happened. JPC used to be bad as well, those 2 basically feeding into each other but he has gotten a lot better recently.
growl is kinda cooked here. nerf was very toxic there, you can tilt and that happens but your reaction is what matters. deafening is not a mature response
Growl is so wrong, its insane. Skipped his talking after like 3 minutes. You can get mad at blizzard for not fixing bugs but dont let it out on your team. And the take that JPC and Ellesmere barking at nerf is just wrong. He said dont overlap my stun really passive aggressive and then the: I hate playing with this healer. How can you defend that and blame JPC and Ellesmere? I just dont get it.
If its a "chill" key like Growls trying to defend then why open your mouth and say anything about the overlap? If what Growl is saying is true then it should be so "chill" that nothing needs to be said from Nerf either. You can talk your shit in the "chill" key but the guys cant say nothing back? He keeps saying they barked at nerf yet nerf literally "barked" first lmfao...What a shit defense about the whole thing.
Max modeling mature behavior is always my favorite. "When I'm wrong I instantly say it, and I'm not afraid of saying it" - this is turbo something I'm still working on, and we could probably all do better at 🙏
lmao Growl's entire whining session about always having to apologise being a tank is completely undermined by the fact that Ellesmere owned up to the mistake immediately after the key
The stun overlap? that wasnt the problem. The problem is that despite going over the strategy a thousand time and going over the CC rotation a thousand time they still act like if nerf don't call out everything all the time, there's no way for anyone to know what they are supposed to do. people who don't shotcall ( the vast majority of the playerbase) don't get how exhausting it is.
growl was saying that as a tank, he feels like he always has to be the 'bigger man' and apologise and that no oneelese ever takes responsibility. This makes no sense in the context of this video as at the end of the run Ellesmere immediately says 'I made a mistake and this is why', undermining Growls point. I said nothing about the stun overlap or shotcalling, nerf or anything you mentioned in your comment.@@vincenthamel3420
Nerf definitely needed to say sorry, everyone gets a little tilted and overreacts to silly shit. The ultimatum shit that was done at the end of it though was stupid as hell. Like, there's probably stuff that built up to that, but giving an ultimatum cause someone mutes during a key that's pretty easy for them? Homie definitely needs to get over himself.
I feel like all of the defenses here are a bit... weird. All of the criticism is about how badly handled in a social skills respect, and all of the defenses are "You guys dont know how to WoW LOL". Someone who has never played WoW, or even knew it existed, could see that clip and understand it was rife with immature and bad responses. The whole "you are 30" statement wasnt an insult trying to call Nerf old, it was a statement of you arent a child any more, you should know better than to have a temper tantrum.
The moment you said Driney goes silent when he gets tilted made my friend and I laugh. Our friend group used to raid with him way back in WOD and we still keep in touch. When you all got the world first Castle Nathria, he came on our giga dead server and flexed it for reactions. People not following the race thought it was fake lol
Growl straight up giga biased probably trying to make sure if dorki ever drops him he has nerf as a consideration. Nerf acted like a child and no amount of tank stress or whatever warrants that reaction.
What Dorki says around 49:30 is so SO true. Normally I dislike his takes but the state of M+ requiring so many kicks and stuns and has so many 1 shots is god-awful especially for a healer. M+ was better when it was just a race to get it done in the timer.
It scales infinitely, change whatever you want but they will end up pushing until it goes back to being "interrupt/stun or get one shot" with a higher number attached to the key.
@@arforafro5523 While it's true that keys will always have the potential to scale to a place where 1-shots are frequent, only some seasons see teams reaching that level of key. Other seasons are DPS limited rather than health limited, so the healer is more focused on dealing damage than panicky healing when everything that hits a dps is hitting them for 90% of their health minimum.
@@Fr33mx Yes that's exactly my point? Max has brought up JP or w/e the rogue is called would really wish for M+ to be capped at 20 and it just be about speed clearing. And a LOT of people are coming around to that PoV once they realise the top end is just "can my class survive one shots". Max liked the idea of it just being a speed run too. Also helps squish the brackets of players back down so there's more good players mixed with bad ones, we've all had 16-19's that are harder than 22's for example.
so basically a bunch of adults act like children and stop communicating with each other and instead have a collective tantrum lmao this did not need to be an hour long video
It's funny that this Growl guy talks about "chatters" and saying that they have no idea what they are talking about. Does he think this situation doesn't happen to everyone? At work? With family and friends? Jesus what bubble are these guys living in.
maybe that's just me, but that entire group is just unbearable to watch play together, especially the constant Ellesmere bashing, whether it's just jokingly or not
Nerf was being a dick. Not say he always is or isn't. But in this case he is. Any defense of his behaviors seems weird since, "Tanks shouldn't be shotcallers," would be a bigger issue than this drama. They wouldn't be one of the top teams if what they had didnt work. If, slowly over time, Nerf got fed up, then the answer would be talk about it and assign a new shotcaller. So at the very best, Nerf was a big baby and didn't really apologize. No excuse for blowing up on people, and I am sure if it was really bad someone would step up. These are top players after all. And blaming other roles for not shotcalling is odd when you talk to your other players everyday. Piss communication from him, regardless.
Tank don't end up as shotcaller because it work, tanks end up as shotcaller because nobodyelse want to do it, and the nature of the role tends itself to leading pug. the idea that after repeating a CC rotation a 1000 time in the 300 key you've done should be repeated again and again ine very dungeon on every pack otherwise his teammate have no idea what to do... that's ridiculous. Nerf burned out from shotcalling both as raid leader of a hall of fame guild, and as shotcaller for a M+ group that push multiple hour per day every day.
idk wtf Growl is talking about here. Everything he said in defence of Nerf and against the others completely applies to Nerf in every situation. Says Ellesmere and JPC were "barking" at him after Nerf "barked" at Ellesmere multiple times for way less. Nerf shouldn't have to call out everything on a homework key? Fine, but then he goes non-verbal AND acts like a child after, it's just a homework key though, right? From what I've gathered from the other comments on this post because I've not been super clued in to M+ streamers for a while now, sounds like Nerf is constantly being giga toxic and saying shit like "I hate playing with this healer" all the time. When the key is fine and things are lighthearted I get it's just jokes but when things are this serious and then you MUTE the rest of the run after saying that. It's not a joke. Then going after chat for calling things as they see them is kinda absurd. I can understand some people are fucking delusional but when you're saying shit like "Nobody in chat has ever been in this situation they'll never play at this level" Is WAY outta pocket. It's not chats fault 99% of them work full-time jobs AND have families and don't have time to no life WoW to get to a point where they can be this good or spend 6-10 hrs a day farming keys & gear. It's not their fault that because of all that they aren't constantly watching the same 5 streamers in the same M+ groups keeping tabs of how people are interacting with each other consistently. I can understand why one toxic ass is defending the other. He gotta cut out the elitist ego shit. Legit nothing even happened, didn't wipe, didn't deplete just go next. Whole situation is kinda stupid. I do feel bad for Ellesmere though, if he really is getting shit like this for a long ass time.
@growl because Nerf always makes the calls so just because it's a "homework" key why all of a sudden not make the calls? That is why they blamed Nerf's fault for not calling like he normally does.
no. Because that team ran hundred of keys together (this season), went over the CC rotation a thousand time, executed this CC rotation multiple time in this very dungeon.... it is reasonable to expect your teammate to remember it and not rely on the tank calling out every ability every time on every pull of every dungeon, every day. But hey, if anyone think it's unreasonable to expect people to remember the CC rotation... feel free to step up as a shot caller! see how long you last.
@@boopsii Sure buddy. it's not that hard. this is why Max/scripe stopped playing to become full time shot caller. This is why Nerf's teammate apparently cannot remember a CC rotation they have done a thousand time if he don't remind them every single pull. But i'm sure you are shot calling in your +30s team and chilling the entire time. GTFO, will ya?
@@vincenthamel3420 Also raid leading is different from shot calling. Calling out a stop in a key, like Gingi does every single time, is WAY easier to do real time than calling out 20 things at once in raid. You sound like a dps who doesn't know how to pop defensives. You're the dude who misses interrupts.
Going full nonverbal is just a bitch move simple as that. Growl is fuckin crazy for defending that. Dont blame anyone for leaving after that. Like you just don't have time to waste your time with that shit, and you don't have to be on an elite team to have perspective on this. That shit is totally irrelevant. Also with 30 years old he's clearly saying you're too old to be this immature. How are they all missing this lol
I've been following Growl for a while and I didn't expect such a bad take from him. Pointing out that chat doesn't have experience with high m+ keys is such a dumb thing because guess what, team dynamics like this isn't something exclusive to mythic+, people have jobs and things get heated but you can't act like a fucking baby like Nerf did.
I listened back and he did say that he stunned but it was right when the monk came up and casted leg kick, So he could of clarified that he was stunning first way before then lol. Edit: also now knowing he shotcalls for them it was def his fault there for not calling out he was getting first stun lmao.
they have ran hundred of key together. went over the CC rotation thousand of time. they went over the CC rotation literally 40 sec before this pull on the other pack of maggot. Acting like it's somehow the tank responsability to call out every ability on every pull all the time is nonsense. These are amongst the best player in the world. You don't need the tank to be your personal DBM assistant and remind you every pull what the CC rotation is. IT is incredibly exhausting to be the shotcaller in high-end content, even more so when your teammate expect you to call out every little ability otherwise their brains will fall out of their ears.
When Growl joins the call and defends Nerf he says why did they jump on him........yikes it all started because Nerf attacked first. If you say something with attitude your likely going to get attitude in return. Clearly Growl is biased in this case.
The 30 years old comment is saying "Act your age and quit acting like a child." Why did every one think this was so brutal? He's not calling him an old geezer he's just saying "Act your age"
maybe i'm toxic or have thicker skin than most WoW gamers, but I don't think it would be over the line if someone brought up my age if they were trying to say that I was acting like a man-child.
I guess this is why Echo keeps beating us in m+. They just mute mics scream oddly specific Baltic slurs at each other that are from beefs from 1k years ago then move on.
i LOVE growl but him saying people have no social skills then talking about how m+ers dont know how to genuinely apologize is pretty hypocritical and cringe
growl is def too deep in it to have an unbias take. i dont blame him for defending his boy, but u cant be super close to someone and have an objective view on a fight they had. u can tell by the way he talks about nerf, that he has a lot of respect and admiration for the guy, and u just cant be objective about someone u think that highly of.
But you and other chatters can be unbiased and objective on a clip you have no context for about people you’ve never talked to? Tell me you do no wrong in your life. Stop pretending to be perfect. 😂
@@burkles4456 I never said I was unbias. I never gave my opinion on the 'drama' at all, lmao. I just made the observation that Growl is clearly too close to Nerf to be unbias about it. But keep making shit up in your head about me in an attempt to win an argument with yourself.
Justin was accurate, dude acted like a child instead of a 30 year old dad. And then deflects blame like a child. Feel bad for his kids that’s some type of role model for him.
Hearing Growl and Nerf try to justify throwning a tantrum and not apologizing for being a jerk is as hilarious as it is frustrating. Max is right, the mature responsible thing to do is apologize and move on. If there are more issues address them. The way people act when they dont do that isn't good even if it is "normal". It means the community is immature.
Some context that really needs to be mentioned is that this key was immediately following a 31 wcm that was bricked due to an endless debuff bug on triad. So they are already tilted from the very beginning
Oh so that's something that has happened to others. Don't really watch streams and such too much but got that debuff bug on triad twice in a day and holy hell that was annoying. Second witch in triad just kept her "keep moving or die" debuff active the entire time.
Was the "30 Years old" comment meant to come across as calling him old? I interpreted it more as "You're an adult, don't just mute, be mature about it"
It was, nothing toxic about what he said
@@adrianaxelsson9065 Yes it was, I agree with what James is trying to get across but he could've easily gotten the point across in a non-toxic way by saying "You're an adult"
@@swinkyy7846 That *is* what he said, just with a specific age. We're WoW players, not fortnite players-- calling someone 30 isn't just a childish insult, it *was* to emphasize that he's acting like a child, not whatever nonsense the early 20 viewers in chat seem to be taking it as (and god only knows why Max took it that way)
@@swinkyy7846Grow up lol.
THANK YOU
The 30 year old comment is James saying "you are old enough to know better".
You guys took it as "you are too old"
Yeah I was gonna say, I don't think that was supposed to be an insult. That was more "you're 30, you have kids, yet you're acting like a toddler. Grow up."
@@dreadfury2485 it was clearly meant as an insult.
@@dreadfury2485 nah fam, that's an underhanded insult. You can fuck off w/ that mindset. He is totally within his right to mute up and be mad at a group of people shitting on him then go take a breather. They can fuck off.
That's the equivalent as anyone saying "you are [insert certain age], you shouldn't be playing games or watching youtube anymore."
@@JoseOrtiz-bx3vl Meant as an insult to his maturity. Not an insult to being too old to play the game at the highest level.
@@JoseOrtiz-bx3vl but not in the way they thought.
I've been watching Ellesmere's stream on and off for some time now and whenever this sort of situation happens he has to take the brunt of the crap, the amount of shit he got thrown in his direction is beyond me
It's called playing healer lol
Healing do be like that
ellesmere's got an impressive amount of shit on his screen that he DOES pay attention to to account for a lot of these things, and he still gets more flame than I've seen most people. its unbearable to listen to even as a bystander
It's just part of being a healer unfortunately, same applies to tank, people will have full blown meltdowns at either roles when something goes wrong.
It's playing with Nerfmeta one of the most toxic ass tanks ever.
I don't think telling someone to act their age is out of line when they are acting like a little child.
Well it’s understandable but also this a show of immaturity because you won’t bring down the situation. Not gonna say I never did it though.
Telling someone to *act their age* isn't out of line, but the way / tone and expression he used was a childish way of putting it. And this comes from a 30year old world first gamer in multiple games 😅 That being said, experienced the same thing many times and so many people speak before thinking especially when already annoyed.
Yeah, I didn't understand why they thought that line in particular was so bad. He was telling him to act like a mature adult, which he clearly wasn't at the moment.
Because its another challenge to his face when he's already dealing with the key that just happened. It's funny to me people.telling others to act their age when they really just mean have more emotional control because i don't right now. Also act your age? You're playing a fucking game, yall should go act your age and go to work or some shit and not argue over a fucking game
Well it's like telling someone to "calm down", generally doesn't have that effect and usually only used to stir the other person up.
Big disagree with Growl here. I watch Ellesmere's stream on a regular basis and nerf is usually a giant dick and elles always rolls with the punches and tries to stay positive but honestly nerf is so toxic that Im surprised it did even last that long.
growl is also very toxic so its difficult to take his opinion on this seriously, he has the typical WoW elitist personality.
Imagine having an ego for being the best at an esport that nobody takes seriously as an e-sport.
@@jacobmitchell9227 I'm just gonna say that anyones IRL look is completely irrelevant to any of this
Agree with that, watched nerfs stream once and turned off after like 5 minutes because he sounded like a total dick.
@@jacobmitchell9227 nerf is a skinny asian dude
Agree, Nerf is holding them back for while now. Not playing MDI or TGP for example. Good he’s gone
It is crazy Growl making the defense that Nerf saying "Yo, don't overlap my stuns" and "I hate playing with this healer" or asking "which global did you just press" is not barking but JPC and Ellesmere saying "You didn't call it" is barking. Nerf called them out for their mistake, they called him out on his, and then he turned into a 5 year old with a tantrum. Nerf was the toxic one in this interaction - not the rest of the people. Even if Nerf got tilted from being called out on being non-verbal in an easy key, it is wild to just completely ignore them the rest of the key and after. It was clear JPC was fed up with Nerf being a baby.
As a tank, I can see Growls point. It’s a stressful environment to be tanking something that high even if it is an easy key, and to have to call every stun makes you feel like the other 4 members are mindless key pressers. IF there was an established order, AND they have been running keys for months, THEN if can go unspoken. I think nerf’s response was a little harsh leading to the meltdown, but all-in-all I think they all were wrong and this was recoverable with a little bit of humbleness. I think this meltdown was months in the making. I’ve been on Nerfs streams when he’s tanking raid last season and wiping on the second to last boss and I’ve seen him loose his shit before, this appears to be an ongoing issue. I suffer personally from outburst of frustration at times and it’s been a life long struggle to keep them under control. I can sympathize with Nerf but I can also see where he’s totally wrong.
Yeah totally agree. I think Growl has a point about the reason why Nerf was frustrated. I can see why he would be. BUT Nerf did not address this reasoning, by explaining that he just wants to rely on the CC order instead of calling things out all the time. Instead he just randomly blamed in a toxic way and got blamed back, at which point he just turned into a 5 year old as you said. So even if you assume Growl is right about the reasoning, which we don't know, but makes sense at least, Nerf is absolute at fault for his reaction in this specific scene. Also Ellesmere reflected on the situation quiet fairly, while Nerf did absolutely not.
the thing is nerf called them out for not doing their characters responsiblities in THE GAME . They call nerf out for ? literally not saying it . The responsibility to call stuff is just thrown at him by default cuz no one else wants to do it so yeah its literally barking when they can't call stuff and whine when nerf didn't call it and its literally a repeat key for them which is easy and done million times before they should know that nerf cc's first like they've done it a lot does he need to call it every single day ? i don't think so . I agree that muting for the whole dungeon is a bit overkill but i see the point of nerf definitetly.
@crush2792 if it's an easy key and done a million times, questioning someone on a global they pressed is toxic.
@@joshpotter574 questioning it cuz they're doing it wrong ? If everything is up , its generally nerf first . Even elle admits that he panic pressed it so calling it out is definitely not toxic
cant wrap my head around thinking the "ur 30" comment is super toxic. hes just saying hes a grown man with kids acting like a child.
People will cry when you point towards their lack of accountability.
THIS
ngl anyone who thinks "ur 30" is a solid and valid point to make in ANY discussion or fight is straight up projecting. Do you know what adults dont do? Appealing to ones age when someone is in emotional distress.
My take after watching this hour long video on people I don't even know. Some tank named Nerf took an L and Growl took a bigger L.
Let's be real we've all had a m+ gigga tilt for absolutely no reason
realest comment
I just came off on
Everyone gets at least 1 freebie each season. There's been times where someones like, i'm just not feeling it tonight, lets pick back up tomorrow and you go about ur day.
No lets be real, having done 25+ keys with my guildies, they are all toxic as fuck and instead of dealing with it as adults they all went baby mode. its just sad
@@KeiboredKowboi didn’t ask
the age comment from James definitely came from the context of "you should act more mature about this" rather than plainly calling him old
Important to get Growl on so I can know what the absolute worst fucking take on planet Earth is.
100
Growl hitting that copium extra hard lol.
Yeah, not sure if he’s defending his friend or genuinely just constant L takes
@@Menaceirl more like he probably tried shot calling for a day or not and realized how exhausting it is.
So he understand how nerf feel when JPC said "" you didnt call it!"" as if it was somehow nerf mistake to not call a CC rotation they have praticed a thousand time over.
@@vincenthamel3420 then nerf shouldn't get so pressed over 1 overlapped cc in a homework key if he isn't gonna call out like i'd assume he usually does.
@@JustEclecticV1 It's simply amaze me how dependant people are on shot caller babysitting them from A to Z every day, despite being "professional" gamers.
Go shotcall for a week or two then come back.
what are you even trying to say@@vincenthamel3420
The funniest part of this entire situation for me is that nothing even happened when they overlapped CCs lol. Didn't cause a death, wipe, deplete or anything and Nerf had a breakdown over it kek
what happened is burnout from being the shot caller, and his teammate acting like it's his responsability to call out for the 1001th time a CC rotation they all know and have done multiple time.
if anyone want to step up to shotcall for their group, go for it!
But we all know it sucks.
@@vincenthamel3420 Yeah so...as the shot caller he didn't call the shot. Whether its burnout or not its still his fault...
It's like if they pulled a boss and Ellesmere went afk to get some food and they all died, then he said heal yourselves and muted
@@Crobian no, as a team who went over the CC rotation a thousand time it shouldn't be on Nerf shoulder to remind them every single effin pack what the rotation is.
Tanks are not your personal DBM assistant. take some accountability.
@@vincenthamel3420 Yeah bro its so hard to say "my stun" while mashing your 3 button rotation
@@vincenthamel3420100% this. Trying to guide a grp of monkeys through the same key for the tenth time and they still won't stay outside even though you call "wait here" EVERY - SINGLE - TIME. And the single time you sont call it the monkeys come running in after you.
Same goes for first left pull in atal dazar. I always call out the same kick order on the 2 casters. ie x and z on augur x kick first and me and healer on disciple, me first. We do this EVERY - SINGLE - TIME. But the one time I don't say it and only say I'm first on disciple healer next. And I take for granted the other DPS will take care of the augur.... The key goes to hell beacuae "wtf you didn't call anything"
Ellesmere seems like the glue holding this together, dude is a beast
It’s a shame he’s also the punching bag as a consequence. Never watched an ambition stream where Elle is treated like an equal, and not attacked
I don't watch any of these guys enough to feel strongly about any of them but as someone who plays a lot of competitive games in high intensity environments where emotions can run high, I think he handled it very maturely. Obviously Nerf had a moment, everyone does but doubling down and sitting on a high horse claiming accountability doesn't bode particularly well to both his teammates and spectators.@@Menaceirl
as a healer i can say that when some one says "im dead" i do infact pull out everything in the book at them to be like but did you die? it is some sort of healing flex
I have a friend, whether its on warzone, wow, any game - will always say “im down/dead/pick me up” before hes actually dead. So now i just let him die 😏
"Can i have one heal" Is the fastest way to get to the healer's shitlist. If the healer is not healing you, it's because they are busy saving someone else's ass, and not that they are just staring at your health bar go down and choosing to do nothing.
its strong communication imo. If you just start screeching into the mic 'Im dead' I will press every single button on my bars instantly. takes no effort or thought, just pure reaction gameplay.
Normally i am already putting stuff into them but kinda same. It is more looking for who is supposable "im dead" which is the confusing part for me.
its way faster to say "i'm dead" in, say, PVP situations, than it is to say "i have no trinket no defensives left they're all on me help please"
Growl acting like it being a high lvl M+ changes basic human social skills. Touch grass.
Bro hasnt been outside in years
WoW players being grown ass adults challenge impossible
Yeah Growl is straight gaslighting here.
Nothing that occurred deserved the offending action (going mic off headphones out). If Nerf was having such a tough time with the barking then he needs to be adult about it, either leave the team or share the growing frustration. Also, the fact that Growl feels he needs to come on and "explain" doesn't show loyalty, it shows this behavior is standard for this Nerf dude.
It's not the tanking that's exhausting.
it's the shotcalling (and nobody is stepping up to shotcall, are they?)
In particular, they have ran hundred of key together, went over the CC rotation thousand of time.... but somehow if he doesnt call it out for the 1001th time everyone brain drip out of their ears and they forget what to do?
It might be a surprise to be people who have never shotcall anything ever in WoW ( which is the vast majority of player) but... people don't sign up to be your personal DBM assistant.
think you are missing the point@@vincenthamel3420
@@vincenthamel3420 "If Nerf was having such a tough time with the barking then he needs to be adult about it, either leave the team or share the growing frustration"
@@vincenthamel3420 Him being frustrated and having issues is entirely justified.
Acting like a 5 year old throwing a tantrum because you're frustrated when you're trying to do stuff people want to take seriously is very much not.
@@daniellucas5522 go shotcall for a week or two and see how non-frustrated you get when teammate blame you for not being their personal DBM assistant 24/7
Growl is so incredibly biased in this take. Saying that Elles and JPC barked at Nerf is crazy. Changing his story several times to fit his narrative when Max pushes back. I get that you think Nerf is not completely at fault, and I agree, but the take is still so far off. I honestly questioned his sanity at times listening to him. Maybe its a streamer thing since they do not have to deal with the general public out in the world as much? (Outside of chat, which is a different beast.)
It honestly feels like Growl is great at the M+ side of WoW and not so much the social side of it. Never change though, I need the M+ tips.
He probably tried shotcalling a few time, understand of exhausting it is, and how ridiculous it is that NErf's teammate somehow expect him to shotcall a CC rotation they have praticed a 1000 times.
I don’t understand why any one thinks saying “you’re 30 years old…” is a crazy wrong thing to say. He’s literally just saying act your age, imagine being at your job and your co-worker just gives you the silent treatment? Dudes acting like a child, James was just saying like bro what are you doing? Get it together, you’re 30 years old not 17… y’all are super soft lol. This whole thing is stupid though tbh.
And for any one who says yea well this isn’t your work it’s a video game… this literally is their work, they play video games for a living… I.E JOB.
@@rkale77 some of these people are just kids in an adult's body mate. They still get mad af playing the game and they act superior to others because they have a high rating or something. Of course they're going to do the silent treatment. I play games too and I'm 29 but holy shit, act your age. You either solve the issue or just don't play with them anymore. Or don't say anything in the first place until you finish the key
and you back talk your boss hows that work out for you? probs alot worse the the silent treatment @@rkale77
i mean he did jsut that and everones shitting on him for it. He stopped talking finished the key and then ahsnt played with them sence. seems like a perficaly resaonable way to handle this@@someguy3508
I think they interpreted it as “past your prime” and not “act your age”, hence why Dorki mentioned his age, Max mentioned JPC’s, etc.
holy shit, 20 mins of Growl just stroking Nerf lmao
That was so hard to listen to, I skipped passed Growl's disengenous response. He was close in his characterization of what happened.
I just skip everything involving Growl. He spams shit like "Chat" "Civilians" and constantly shits on people not in his friend group. Then he says that THEY dont have social skills... like.... irony in the highest degree@@KhandeeTV
I love Growl, but he was trying way to hard to deflect the blame to "chat being ignorant." It doesn't take being a professional M+ player to see the issues that were going on here.
For closed groups of people like that one with a lot of shit happening outside your scope as a viewer you can miss out on a lot of important context.
It is a reasonable take.
the vast majority of WoW playerbase expect addons / raid leader / tank to call out everything and anything they ever have to do in any content.
DPS often act like it's impossible for them to figure out when to lust without the tank telling them to. even in 25s and 26s.
So yes, anyone in these comment saying nerf over-reacted to one overlappped CC do not see what is going on. at all.
he only knows m+, he himself is so ignorant that he can't imagine people solving these kind of situations at their job every day.
@vincenthamel3420 How the fk are you yapping so much in one video. The glazing is unreal
Bad takes is what Growl is specced into.
If Nerf wasnt toxic every single Ellesmeres stream I watch I would agree with Growl. But since he is toxic its kinda funny 🙂
what you guys think its toxic, its actually not... do you always speak in received pronounciation with your friends?! or do you sometimes fuck around and say stupid shit?! its the same thing... only difference is, their conversations are being listened to by thousands every day
@@artug92 If you're always "toxic for fun" towards your friend, all you do is condition them to take your toxicity. This helps noone.
@@janah6473 who said always? Understand the context then come back to me
@@artug92 OP said "every single time" he tunes into elles stream. That is what you defended. There is your context, bud.
@@janah6473 I defended what I said not what op said... understand the context and come back to me.. good try though
It doesnt even matter who messed up the CC. The reaction to the situation is what matters.
Looking how they reacted to the mistake, its hard to not see that Nerf was in the wrong.
Literal temper tantrum, toxic behavior. And then growl is explaining why Nerf got upset, but who cares? All temper tantrums come from someone being upset, but you're supposed to stop reacting like a child, as they explained, well before the time you're 30+ 😂
the mistake is not the stun overlap.
the mistake is despite going over the CC rotation a thousand time they still act like if nerf don't call out everything, all the time, then their brain fall out of their ears and they forget how to do stuff.
they are the best player in the world. they have ran hundred of key together. they shouldn't need a personal DBM assistant to remind them what to do.
People who don't shotcall don't get how incredibly exhausting it is
@@vincenthamel3420 Nobody cares. The people who are mad at WHY he was mad are dumb, the point is that the way he handled the fact that he got mad and that he doubled down on it makes him look like a manchild
@@MegaCapo85 oh yeah. nice deflection.
"" nobody care why you were mad! we care about how it inconvenienced us afterward!""
I mean, it goes hand-in-hand with the "" I can't possibly know when to use abilities unless you tell me when and where!"" that started this shitshow.
@@vincenthamel3420 No one is saying whether he was right or wrong in being mad, man. People are pointing out the way he handled it, thats it.
@@MegaCapo85 Exactly. Otherwise, the alternative is what? When someone is upset, any behavior is acceptable? lol
It doesn't matter what happened if Nerf was right or wrong. The fact is he was completely immature in his response.
Yeah, to never take any accountability in your response looks really bad in such a situation.
Nerf sounds like a kid and in a surprise to no one, acts like a kid too.
Shocker.
I don't think the 30 year old comment is as big a flame as it was made out to be. I interpret it closer to you are to old to act like this. Not a dig at him being older.
Growl takes literally the worst in this video, what even
feel like hes just trying to be devils advocate here tbh
Every explanation he gave did not help the cause. Nerf didnt say “can you guys please stop overlapping on my stun”
He whinged so hard saying “he keeps overlapping” and whining about it while pointing blame. Obviously itll make people become defensive.
go shotcall for a day or two .
repeat the same CC rotation a hundred time.
see how you react when someone BS you about not calling it a 101th time.
They are the best of the best player, pushing rank 1 keys. The tank shouldnt have ot micro manage all their CD on eveyr pull of every dungeon.
@@vincenthamel3420 “I got stun” isnt micro managing. He said more words and spent more energy whining about it than he could have used to communicate maturely.
@@krackawoody2556 OH yes. I'm sure " i got stun" is the only thing he ever had to shotcall for this entire dungeon. or the entire day. or the entire 2 month season they've been playing together.
The amount of gaslighting Growl tried to do us UNREAL. Nerf in the wrong. End of story.
Go shotcall in top-end content for a week or two and tell me how calm you remain when the DPS pretend it's your fault for not calling out the CC rotation you've praticed 1000 time
again, you keep missing the point@@vincenthamel3420
@@vincenthamel3420all I’m learning from your hundred salty replies on this video is that tanks are the biggest crybabies
@@cheezuma Yet it's the world first DPS rogue that apparently get lost unless the tank remind them when and where to press their button.
@@vincenthamel3420 No, the world first DPS rogue got sick of the tank acting like a 5 year old because someone made a mistake which they later admitted to and apologised for. Acting like mature adults is apparently not something that people understand. If you don't enjoy the game, don't play it.
What I have noticed from watching a LOT of ellesmere keys; Nerf is great to he around when everyone is locked in, but he also loves going in on people for little mistakes, and loves to poke at people, but cannot take it at all.
I'm confused that JPCs comment about nerf being in is 30s is taken so harshly. I am also in my late 30s, but I just took it as JPC calling out that he should act his age and maybe be more mature about this rather than calling him ancient or something.
Growl defending nerf is wild
does that nerf guy have that voice or is a voice changer or helium?!?!1
@@SpliffProductionshe’s just a little Asian guy that’s how the sound sometimes lol
Growl is a champion of communication but out here defending nerf, oooof
Was the best part. 100% with him on this one. The defense was so good feels like he is just roleplaying healer:
"Chat can't keep a group for 3 keys" should have made everyone shut the fuck up instantly
yeah he seems crazy biased. i dont think its fully nerfs fault but he was literally the one that started blaming people
no clue who growl is but his comments on the matter are awful lol
Growls take was awful, imo. I know he wants to defend Nerf, but there just isn't any defending his actions there. Even in Nerfs own defense he called out why there's as much drama as there is. "Accountability". Now, as Max said, we don't know if they actually spoke to each other off stream, and if they did, great! If not, and he wants to call "chat" out for being low IO due to lack of accountability, seems like a case of hypocrisy.
Growl calling out "chat" because most of us aren't doing 30+ keys is kind of cringe as well. It's true, 99.9% of us aren't doing keys at his level, but that doesn't mean we don't play in a similar fashion with people. Most people are playing with others that are around the same skill level. If that level is 25s or 16s, kind of beside the point. If a peer of mine, just as good as me, made a mistake, and I went non verbal comms for the rest of the key/night, you bet your ass they'd be pissed. Key level has nothing to do with it. He was acting childish by pulling that stunt. Also, when JPC made that comment about being "30 years old", that's exactly what he meant, stop acting like a bitch, own up to the mistake, and move on.
Most people dont run hundred of key in a season.
Most people don't have a premade for all of those.
Most people don't play at a level where every non interrupted/stopped ability kill someone, hence requiring a perfect CC chain and nearly every pack.
Most people don't pratice a CC rotation a thousand time due to the previous point.
Most people don't shotcall, which is incredibly exhausting to do while playing at such a high level.
so no, most people do not understand. And to Growl point : expecting Nerf to call out every ability every mob every dungeon every day while his teammate act like they have no idea what to do if he doesn't call it out.... that's insane.
So Growl think it's okay for Nerf to respond by muting himself, but the way James responded back is wrong ? And Nerf might be his "boy" but good friends keep each other acountable and dont enable this behaviour. Also saying "the people" not being able to relate to this is dead wrong. Yes, the level that these streamers/pro-players play in is a level I will probably never reach. But the same focus, pressure, intensity that they experience in a +30, a player can also have the same in a +15.
Growl talks about the known bug that happens every key tilting the tank. What about when the tank told the healer to use another global instead of tiger palm to heal him, when he was on full HP with no instant vivify charge up or external up, while tiger palm is part of his healing, then told him to say every global he wants to use. Then made a single mistake the next pull by stunning in a moment of panic and got his head snapped off when it truly wasn't called. Then after pointing that out was told "I hate playing with you all the time". That's probably the most tilting shit you can have happen in a key as a healer, tanks being dumbasses who think you have to play perfectly to cover them, even when you truly had nothing left to move their hp. You have to remember most heals are balanced to heal DPS health bars, not tank ones which are generally 3-4x bigger.
Honestly it just seems like the communication needs active work. It's fine to say things are hard, the way to fix it is to talk about what is happening, assign some responsibility. If Ellesmere is always accidently stunning first, and that's shitting you. Maybe move his stun to be first, or maybe micromanage it for him for a while, and accept that when you're not something is going to slip occasionally. Responsibility isn't about assinging fault or blame, it's about trying to solve a problem.
I love it when my teammate act like it's my fault I didn't tell them to press (or not press ) their key.
It's not like these guy have ran hundred of key together THIS season, went over the CC rotation a thousand time, executed said rotation 40 second ago on the other maggot pull...
naaah. it's the tank job to call out every ability, on every pull, of every key, every day. Anythingelse is preposterous... what, are non-tank player supposed to think about what's coming in the next 4-5 second and plan ahead? Unthinkable!
Do you just not have a group that you run keys with consistently that has a shotcaller? Becoming reliant on the shotcaller is very much a thing and *literally the intended purpose of a shotcaller*.
@@smurfaccount9269 you are missing the point.
Shotcalling is exhausting. especially shotcalling trivial stuff that you have repeated a thousand time, in every key, on every week.
Nobody shotcall because they want to. people start to shotcall because they HAVE to and it's extremely exhausting.
Nerf in particular talked multiple time about not wanting to shotcall anymore... but it's not like you'll see anyonelse step up to the role
and no. shotcalling is still notbeing your personal DBM assistant.
@@vincenthamel3420 Shotcalling being exhausting doesn't justify his actions, he's still messing up.
Using the example found in the video we're commenting on: if Liquid_Maximum shuts down during raid did he make a mistake? Absolutely.
"Shotcalling is still not being your personal DBM assistant" you're correct it's not, no one said that. However, players do become reliant on it.
Given you're watching this content, I assume you raid. Have you ever had a call that is constantly made: "pre-spread for seeds (Tindral)", "move away from portals (Smolderon)", "stack for roots (Tindral)" that seems trivial? Those callouts are similar to shotcalls here: they're obvious, they're exhausting over sufficiently large periods of time, and they're critical because people become reliant on them *because they should be*, instead of focusing on those things they can focus on their own play, hence the 21st man that Nerf was talking about in his response. A shotcaller is *literally* there to take care of these kind of things, hence why Liquid_Max's CC weakaura wasn't meant to replace shotcalling but assist him with it.
@@smurfaccount9269
Maximum is not playing while shot claling.... he stepped out of the raiding roster for that precise reason.
Maximum WANT to shotcall, nerf dont
Max shotcall in raid, where everyfight is unique, he doesnt have to shotcall a CC rotation they have done ten thousand time.
Now please stop expecting tanks to be your personal babysitter telling you what to do on every single pull of every single dungeon and take some accountability.
If we completely take out the fact that this is WoW or a video game, it's clear that Growl and Nerf are just terrible communicators and the people around them have just adjusted and gotten used to their toxicity. Constantly referring to the fact that people who aren't a high io just don't understand, and especially Growl referencing people not wanting to add rando's to their friends list is just a ton of deflection. When you're doing literally anything at a high level it's critical that you get feedback from your team if you want to improve. So Growl and Nerf repeatedly saying stuff like "Well yeah obviously we have to call things out when people make a mistake!!" is not untrue, but both of them are completely refusing to acknowledge HOW you give feedback. If you give valid feedback, but say it like a complete asshole and then mute yourself right after that's just terrible communication. You can tell someone they made a mistake without being a complete asshole about it, and 90% of the time people don't remember what exactly you said, they remember how you said it or how it made them feel. Nerf talking about people in chat not taking responsibility while simultaneously not acknowledging one single mistake he made in that interaction is wild.
Growl taking a huge L with his takes on this one. The entire basis of Growl's argument is surrounded with "probablys" even though this is consistent behavior that Nerf exhibits. Nerf was literally the first person to start freaking out about the overlapped stuns and then he starts making up scenarios in his head about what he did/didn't say after being called out for freaking out. And then going on to say that this team has been playing together for a long time, or at least some members of it, and the dude can't handle being called out for something and his response is to mute, unplug his headphones, completely silent, is totally childish. I wouldn't want to play with someone who has such a fragile ego like that regardless of how good they are.
What gathering from this whole thing is that M+ players are completely unhinged and should maybe take some time away from the game to read a book or something.
If you think this is about a stun overlap, and not Nerf getting burned out from having to shotcall stuff they have praticed a thousand time before, you didn't listen to Growl.
Go try to shotcall for a week or two and tell me how you feel about the role.
@@vincenthamel3420 Nerf isn't going to sleep with you bro. You don't have to stroke him off in every comment chain.
@@amethonys2798 why you mad bro.
@@vincenthamel3420 Bro why are you replying to every comment of someone disagreeing with Nerf/Growl? LOL
@@Kinoshiilol Bro, why is everyone posting the same debunked shit?
The irony of Max not understanding the 30+ y/o with kids comment is palpable
I feel like this comment is saying that guild-leader equates to being a parent leading children.
If the overlap wasnt a big deal, then why does nerf initiate the argument. Saying its not a big deal cause its a routine key then why call it out, people know not to overlap, there is no reason to call it out at that point. Its no wonder people respond with the same energy he gave out. But he dished it and couldnt take it. Everyone else tried to be respectful afterwards by trying to complete the key, James was even somewhat respectful in the way he decided not to stay in the group, and ellesmere took responsibility for the little mistake that was way overblown.
But nerf didnt try to resolve the conflict he instead escalated it by leaving and ignoring his team. While its resonable to understand some of the frustration he feels as presented by Growl, its just not a mature way to deal with your peers.
what is a big deal is that they ran hundred of key together, went over the CC rotation a thousand time, but his teammate still somehow act like it's his duty to call out every ability every time on every pack otherwise their brain fall out and nobody know what to do.
it's incredibly exhausting to be the shotcaller in top-end content Having your teammate ( who are amongst the best player in WoW) blame you for not telling them when and where to press their abilities even in the most mundane situation where they have nothingelse to worry about... I didnt sign up to be your personal DBM assistant.
@vincenthamel3420 that's still not a big deal. Especially here where it literally didn't matter.
Also they didnt start flaming him out of nowhere. he lashed out himself in a very negative way. And made it a big deal
@@zeitz4473 you go shotcall for a few week then tell me if it's a big deal or not.
@@vincenthamel3420 mistakes are gonna happen, they are not bots, losing ur mind over a mistake is crazy lol
@@Uncle-Ruckus. That Vincent tool has been DEEEEEEEP throating Nerf the entire time in this thread. It is very pathetic. He unironically calls people 'noob'. Get a grip.
How did I know growl was gunna come in here and defend childlike behavior
Growl likes to be a bit of a contrarian.. that being said you probably are one of those non-verbal puggers who dosen't say anything and leaves as soon as the key is over. so he ain't wrong
Because you saw Growl in the title name, and you've never shotcalled in WoW so you don't know how frustrating it is to repeat something a 1000 time just to have your teammate fuck up when you don't call it out the 1001th time?
@@vincenthamel3420 it’s a game lmaoo. Get over it. You must be really fun to be around.
@@vincenthamel3420why have you been glazing growl and nerf under every comment😂
@@der3kkkkk why is every comment I have been glazing under repeating the same thing?
I have been a lawyer for 12 years and have never heard a worse argument than the one Growl made in this video.
Nerfs points are mainly his, his and his wrongs makes my wrong a right. Also the team chemestry might be in the bin when someone berates the others on a daily basis. Just go back to any wods and listen... Ellesmere gets soo much crap thrown his way every stream. Its a one way street most of the time. Someone needs to act as an adult
Never admit to being wrong, always gaslight the weak willed into thinking they were wrong
Only others can be wrong.
always blame the hunters
The Asmongold Experience
Growl taking Nerf's side is baffling. Nerf was 100% in the wrong from the start.
So easy to pick a scapegoat and just throw it all at them innit
Tanks are underappreciated, and shotcallers too, ego also plays a high role in that, if you feel like your team just stopped respecting you for what you do that makes you doubt yourself and thag just never makes you play better.
If you wanna make out whos wrong that should be inside the group and after the key not in the middle of a tilter thats just a recipie for disaster.
Conflict management is not as easy as to just blame one person, thats just unfair
I don't know man.
If I play with the same people for several hundred key and go over a CC rotation over a thousand time... I kind of expect people to remember it without me shotcalling everything on everypull on everykey, everyday.
People who never shotcall anything ever in WoW don't understand how mentally exhausting it is to have to track 25 more CD and constantly call them out.
you keep copy pasting your comment over and over, and still missing the point...@@vincenthamel3420
m+ players are typically not that intelligent.
@@vincenthamel3420it’s fine to expect them to know, but he’s the one who whined about it when everyone else is vibing in a hw key
Then when told he didn’t call it, his response was that he did (he called it after pressing the stun)
Nerf tanks the key, Ellesmere tanks Nerf.
The craziest thing is the whole video to me is Growl insisting that people don't apologize for mistakes. That seems like a super normal thing to me
growl was cookin a big turd this whole convo
in pugs? they don't people will curse you to hell before they admit they made a mistake, hell ive seen guilds fall apart because an officer or something got called out for making a mistake. in a more "hardcore" environment like mythic raiding and high keys that require coordination more people tend to own up to mistakes because they value the time they put in but also the time of their teammates
Completely disagree with Growl here. Nerf can communicate like an adult, and admit he's having a tough time.
I personally hate the "like an adult" saying. I'm 38, and 90% of the day i am totally not an adult - no matter how old you are, we're barely "adult" most of the time. Yes, Nerf could've said something, but that has very little to do with "being an adult".
@@eXileLies Definitely can relate.
@@eXileLies Then he can act like a professional, a team mate, a leader, a friend, etc... Using adult in this way is a common figure of speech.
a profesonal doesnt sit there and argue about a video game they disengage and move on@@DaltonPaquette
exactly
The growl take is rough cause if he isnt going to call his stun out then its either person's guess who it should be, but Nerf blames Ellesmere immediately. It isnt a bullying thing, its just laziness on Nerf's end
That's the other thing that drives me crazy with Growl's argument that makes no fuckin sense. He somehow tries to use the fact that shotcalling is exhausting and Nerf has to put up with so much from his teammates, but Nerf is the one that started the whole fuckin argument to begin with, yelling at the other guys for fucking it up. Like no one said a damn word about him not making a call until he bitched at them first with a terrible tone. So of course their gonna defend themselves and explain "Yeah no one made a call, so I used my stop". Dumbest take imaginable from Growl.
If Nerf is the usual caller though, and doesn't call anything because its a homework key anyways, then as part of that team I'd assume he's the one that's gonna stun first though? I mean, he's definetly the "toxic one" in the group lets be honest (although often enough it seems more bantery, cuz atleast ellesmere never takes it seriously) - anyone that watches Ellesmere from time to time, but I feel like in that specific situation he was in the right and from then on they just barked at each other cuz one party took it more serious than the other.
After the key, JPC just started piling on - probably just should've let it lie after the blood started boiling, let the game lie for the day and come back to the situation when things have calmed a lil.
no. they have ran hundred of key together and went over the CC rotation a thousand time. They have a set rotation.... but somehow if nerf don't call it out every time on every pull of every key his teammate act like it's his fault and there's no way anyonelse could have had a clue on what to do?
Nerf has a perfect punchable voice. He sounds so cocky.
How da hell is growl going to say OH chat doesn't have social skills! And then say it's too high of a standard to take accountability for your actions and behavior
taking accountability....
like blaming the tank for not calling out the CC rotation they have praticed a thousand time?
Because it's clearly the tank job to be everyone personal DBM assistant and micromanage eveyr CD on every pull of every dungeon?
that kind of accountability?
To summarize growl take : people who have never shotcalled anything in WoW ( which is the vast majority of the playerbase) don't get how exhausting it is to micromanage everyone all the time
Max is right about the tanks flaming healer thing. Sometimes healers could've done better and kept a tank alive, but almost never for DKs or DHs is that true while also them playing better wouldn't have made them survive too. Sucks to play those tanks and get those moments, but hating on the healer is just going to make them more stressed and probably toss the tank more heals than is needed, which is cringe for the dps.
Way too many garbage passive players play non-passive tanking specs and then cry when they die.
I have watched Ellesmere and crew A LOT and Nerf is just really bad at accepting any kind of responsibility for stuff going wrong. He will basically always blame Ellesmere, no matter what actually happened. JPC used to be bad as well, those 2 basically feeding into each other but he has gotten a lot better recently.
Sounds like a "ok, not today it seems"-problem but not a disband. Completely irrelevant who was wrong though. The fuse was lit ;)
growl is kinda cooked here. nerf was very toxic there, you can tilt and that happens but your reaction is what matters. deafening is not a mature response
"No way you proc cheat on a trash pull and mute your mic for the rest of the whole fucking day." HAHAHAHAH I'm dead
what is weird about procing cheat on trash?
it's a 30 fortified key. the trash hit harder than mythic fyrakk.
Growl is so wrong, its insane. Skipped his talking after like 3 minutes. You can get mad at blizzard for not fixing bugs but dont let it out on your team. And the take that JPC and Ellesmere barking at nerf is just wrong. He said dont overlap my stun really passive aggressive and then the: I hate playing with this healer. How can you defend that and blame JPC and Ellesmere? I just dont get it.
Growl has a weird complex... so focused on what chat is saying. Has he had a bad experience?
If its a "chill" key like Growls trying to defend then why open your mouth and say anything about the overlap? If what Growl is saying is true then it should be so "chill" that nothing needs to be said from Nerf either. You can talk your shit in the "chill" key but the guys cant say nothing back? He keeps saying they barked at nerf yet nerf literally "barked" first lmfao...What a shit defense about the whole thing.
Max modeling mature behavior is always my favorite. "When I'm wrong I instantly say it, and I'm not afraid of saying it" - this is turbo something I'm still working on, and we could probably all do better at 🙏
The fact this is what passes as drama in this pathetic retail community lmao. Even their drama is inferior to classic;s.
Growl is reaching hard lol
Growl is just a nerf fanboy. Nerf got annoyed with them so they defended themselves. And he turned his headset off thats pathetic
go shotcall for a week or two and tell me how calm you remain when your team blame you for not repeating the same shit a 1000 time.
lmao Growl's entire whining session about always having to apologise being a tank is completely undermined by the fact that Ellesmere owned up to the mistake immediately after the key
The stun overlap? that wasnt the problem.
The problem is that despite going over the strategy a thousand time and going over the CC rotation a thousand time they still act like if nerf don't call out everything all the time, there's no way for anyone to know what they are supposed to do.
people who don't shotcall ( the vast majority of the playerbase) don't get how exhausting it is.
growl was saying that as a tank, he feels like he always has to be the 'bigger man' and apologise and that no oneelese ever takes responsibility. This makes no sense in the context of this video as at the end of the run Ellesmere immediately says 'I made a mistake and this is why', undermining Growls point.
I said nothing about the stun overlap or shotcalling, nerf or anything you mentioned in your comment.@@vincenthamel3420
Nerf definitely needed to say sorry, everyone gets a little tilted and overreacts to silly shit. The ultimatum shit that was done at the end of it though was stupid as hell. Like, there's probably stuff that built up to that, but giving an ultimatum cause someone mutes during a key that's pretty easy for them? Homie definitely needs to get over himself.
Ellesmere gets shit on more than any of them in that group. I don't know how tf he tolerates it.
I feel like all of the defenses here are a bit... weird. All of the criticism is about how badly handled in a social skills respect, and all of the defenses are "You guys dont know how to WoW LOL".
Someone who has never played WoW, or even knew it existed, could see that clip and understand it was rife with immature and bad responses. The whole "you are 30" statement wasnt an insult trying to call Nerf old, it was a statement of you arent a child any more, you should know better than to have a temper tantrum.
The moment you said Driney goes silent when he gets tilted made my friend and I laugh. Our friend group used to raid with him way back in WOD and we still keep in touch. When you all got the world first Castle Nathria, he came on our giga dead server and flexed it for reactions. People not following the race thought it was fake lol
Growl straight up giga biased probably trying to make sure if dorki ever drops him he has nerf as a consideration. Nerf acted like a child and no amount of tank stress or whatever warrants that reaction.
What Dorki says around 49:30 is so SO true. Normally I dislike his takes but the state of M+ requiring so many kicks and stuns and has so many 1 shots is god-awful especially for a healer.
M+ was better when it was just a race to get it done in the timer.
It scales infinitely, change whatever you want but they will end up pushing until it goes back to being "interrupt/stun or get one shot" with a higher number attached to the key.
It is a race against the timer for lower levels, high end alwayd was about surviving oneshots and pulling shit that you can barely deal with cc wise.
@@arforafro5523 While it's true that keys will always have the potential to scale to a place where 1-shots are frequent, only some seasons see teams reaching that level of key. Other seasons are DPS limited rather than health limited, so the healer is more focused on dealing damage than panicky healing when everything that hits a dps is hitting them for 90% of their health minimum.
@@Fr33mx Yes that's exactly my point? Max has brought up JP or w/e the rogue is called would really wish for M+ to be capped at 20 and it just be about speed clearing. And a LOT of people are coming around to that PoV once they realise the top end is just "can my class survive one shots".
Max liked the idea of it just being a speed run too.
Also helps squish the brackets of players back down so there's more good players mixed with bad ones, we've all had 16-19's that are harder than 22's for example.
@@arforafro5523 See my other comment, a lot of people are asking for M+ to be capped and it just be based of speed of clearing.
"Chat is so stupid for loving dramas."
*Streamer proceeds to make video about drama"
A rare L take from growl tbh
so basically a bunch of adults act like children and stop communicating with each other and instead have a collective tantrum lmao this did not need to be an hour long video
It's funny that this Growl guy talks about "chatters" and saying that they have no idea what they are talking about. Does he think this situation doesn't happen to everyone? At work? With family and friends? Jesus what bubble are these guys living in.
Best Quote, "All you high end mythic +ers need therapy," - max 2024
@maximum
maybe that's just me, but that entire group is just unbearable to watch play together, especially the constant Ellesmere bashing, whether it's just jokingly or not
growl was NOT cooking, get him out of the kitchen
Nerf was being a dick. Not say he always is or isn't. But in this case he is. Any defense of his behaviors seems weird since, "Tanks shouldn't be shotcallers," would be a bigger issue than this drama. They wouldn't be one of the top teams if what they had didnt work. If, slowly over time, Nerf got fed up, then the answer would be talk about it and assign a new shotcaller. So at the very best, Nerf was a big baby and didn't really apologize.
No excuse for blowing up on people, and I am sure if it was really bad someone would step up. These are top players after all. And blaming other roles for not shotcalling is odd when you talk to your other players everyday. Piss communication from him, regardless.
Tank don't end up as shotcaller because it work, tanks end up as shotcaller because nobodyelse want to do it, and the nature of the role tends itself to leading pug.
the idea that after repeating a CC rotation a 1000 time in the 300 key you've done should be repeated again and again ine very dungeon on every pack otherwise his teammate have no idea what to do... that's ridiculous.
Nerf burned out from shotcalling both as raid leader of a hall of fame guild, and as shotcaller for a M+ group that push multiple hour per day every day.
Bro I can't take the nasally voice at all it just made me laugh the whole time 😂😂😂
idk wtf Growl is talking about here. Everything he said in defence of Nerf and against the others completely applies to Nerf in every situation. Says Ellesmere and JPC were "barking" at him after Nerf "barked" at Ellesmere multiple times for way less. Nerf shouldn't have to call out everything on a homework key? Fine, but then he goes non-verbal AND acts like a child after, it's just a homework key though, right? From what I've gathered from the other comments on this post because I've not been super clued in to M+ streamers for a while now, sounds like Nerf is constantly being giga toxic and saying shit like "I hate playing with this healer" all the time. When the key is fine and things are lighthearted I get it's just jokes but when things are this serious and then you MUTE the rest of the run after saying that. It's not a joke. Then going after chat for calling things as they see them is kinda absurd. I can understand some people are fucking delusional but when you're saying shit like "Nobody in chat has ever been in this situation they'll never play at this level" Is WAY outta pocket. It's not chats fault 99% of them work full-time jobs AND have families and don't have time to no life WoW to get to a point where they can be this good or spend 6-10 hrs a day farming keys & gear. It's not their fault that because of all that they aren't constantly watching the same 5 streamers in the same M+ groups keeping tabs of how people are interacting with each other consistently.
I can understand why one toxic ass is defending the other. He gotta cut out the elitist ego shit.
Legit nothing even happened, didn't wipe, didn't deplete just go next. Whole situation is kinda stupid.
I do feel bad for Ellesmere though, if he really is getting shit like this for a long ass time.
@growl because Nerf always makes the calls so just because it's a "homework" key why all of a sudden not make the calls? That is why they blamed Nerf's fault for not calling like he normally does.
I came to say this. Even in low keys I call shit with my team. How else are they gonna know who does what?
no.
Because that team ran hundred of keys together (this season), went over the CC rotation a thousand time, executed this CC rotation multiple time in this very dungeon.... it is reasonable to expect your teammate to remember it and not rely on the tank calling out every ability every time on every pull of every dungeon, every day.
But hey, if anyone think it's unreasonable to expect people to remember the CC rotation... feel free to step up as a shot caller! see how long you last.
@@vincenthamel3420 I am the shot caller on my team and in raid. It’s not that hard haha
@@boopsii Sure buddy. it's not that hard.
this is why Max/scripe stopped playing to become full time shot caller.
This is why Nerf's teammate apparently cannot remember a CC rotation they have done a thousand time if he don't remind them every single pull.
But i'm sure you are shot calling in your +30s team and chilling the entire time.
GTFO, will ya?
@@vincenthamel3420 Also raid leading is different from shot calling. Calling out a stop in a key, like Gingi does every single time, is WAY easier to do real time than calling out 20 things at once in raid. You sound like a dps who doesn't know how to pop defensives. You're the dude who misses interrupts.
Going full nonverbal is just a bitch move simple as that. Growl is fuckin crazy for defending that. Dont blame anyone for leaving after that. Like you just don't have time to waste your time with that shit, and you don't have to be on an elite team to have perspective on this. That shit is totally irrelevant.
Also with 30 years old he's clearly saying you're too old to be this immature. How are they all missing this lol
as a 41 year old, the whole 30 being old discourse ....lemme get my walker....
I've been following Growl for a while and I didn't expect such a bad take from him. Pointing out that chat doesn't have experience with high m+ keys is such a dumb thing because guess what, team dynamics like this isn't something exclusive to mythic+, people have jobs and things get heated but you can't act like a fucking baby like Nerf did.
I listened back and he did say that he stunned but it was right when the monk came up and casted leg kick, So he could of clarified that he was stunning first way before then lol. Edit: also now knowing he shotcalls for them it was def his fault there for not calling out he was getting first stun lmao.
they have ran hundred of key together. went over the CC rotation thousand of time. they went over the CC rotation literally 40 sec before this pull on the other pack of maggot.
Acting like it's somehow the tank responsability to call out every ability on every pull all the time is nonsense.
These are amongst the best player in the world. You don't need the tank to be your personal DBM assistant and remind you every pull what the CC rotation is.
IT is incredibly exhausting to be the shotcaller in high-end content, even more so when your teammate expect you to call out every little ability otherwise their brains will fall out of their ears.
When Growl joins the call and defends Nerf he says why did they jump on him........yikes it all started because Nerf attacked first. If you say something with attitude your likely going to get attitude in return. Clearly Growl is biased in this case.
Calling someone out for being childish isnt too much btw. Being childish in the first place is too much and SHOULD be called out. Hate cry babies.
The 30 years old comment is saying "Act your age and quit acting like a child."
Why did every one think this was so brutal? He's not calling him an old geezer he's just saying "Act your age"
maybe i'm toxic or have thicker skin than most WoW gamers, but I don't think it would be over the line if someone brought up my age if they were trying to say that I was acting like a man-child.
They took it as an attack at ade. It was just saying you should know before for being older. Which is correct.
Lol these kids are soft... Barking at him LOL they said you didn't say anything... He muted his mic like a child, Grow up
I guess this is why Echo keeps beating us in m+. They just mute mics scream oddly specific Baltic slurs at each other that are from beefs from 1k years ago then move on.
i LOVE growl but him saying people have no social skills then talking about how m+ers dont know how to genuinely apologize is pretty hypocritical and cringe
growl is def too deep in it to have an unbias take. i dont blame him for defending his boy, but u cant be super close to someone and have an objective view on a fight they had. u can tell by the way he talks about nerf, that he has a lot of respect and admiration for the guy, and u just cant be objective about someone u think that highly of.
But you and other chatters can be unbiased and objective on a clip you have no context for about people you’ve never talked to?
Tell me you do no wrong in your life. Stop pretending to be perfect. 😂
@@burkles4456 I never said I was unbias. I never gave my opinion on the 'drama' at all, lmao. I just made the observation that Growl is clearly too close to Nerf to be unbias about it. But keep making shit up in your head about me in an attempt to win an argument with yourself.
What's the deal with growl and hating chat. Every time I hear this guy speak he is just talking about how clueless the "chat" is.
Justin was accurate, dude acted like a child instead of a 30 year old dad. And then deflects blame like a child. Feel bad for his kids that’s some type of role model for him.
Hearing Growl and Nerf try to justify throwning a tantrum and not apologizing for being a jerk is as hilarious as it is frustrating. Max is right, the mature responsible thing to do is apologize and move on. If there are more issues address them. The way people act when they dont do that isn't good even if it is "normal". It means the community is immature.
28:18 "at the end of the day they wake up" truest gamer hour statement
Growl wants to be in ambition so bad lol there is no defending nerf.
Some context that really needs to be mentioned is that this key was immediately following a 31 wcm that was bricked due to an endless debuff bug on triad. So they are already tilted from the very beginning
Oh so that's something that has happened to others. Don't really watch streams and such too much but got that debuff bug on triad twice in a day and holy hell that was annoying. Second witch in triad just kept her "keep moving or die" debuff active the entire time.
Growl defending nerf is wild to me, bro was acting like a child, don't shot call for months and then suddenly stop and get mad when someone fucks up.
Is that shot caller weak aura available anywhere? It looks really usefull
Ditto
Yeah he should share that would help immensely in PUGS