Better yet, have it so that if we go to the main menu and type "dulcettones"(there's no text box or anything), then we enable "sirens' call mode" ... Every time you boot up the game, start a new game, or load a save, you get marks' marvellous intro!
When your advertising and marketing is a meta-analysis of marketing and advertising in the indi gaming market lol Interesting video with lots of interesting information!
That open world cliff can be a huge hurdle. I find one thing that helps out a lot, rather than a tutorial, is a guided campaign that starts with a tutorial, and then gradually introduces features and gameplay elements. Instead of the open world feeling like a wall of complexity, it ends up looking like an open field of freedom. I really enjoyed Prison Architect in the early alphas, but as it got more and more complex, it became very overwhelming to try and play post release.
They mention Factorio a lot. The guide there is great. Optional Tutorial followed by when you unlock/try a new feature. Little pop-up says do you want to learn about this? and you can happily ignore it or read every single tip it gives. Gives the hardcore players a chance to learn everything on their own while allowing for the more timid group to be guided as much as they need. As long as their guides are better than Factorio trying to teach trains they'll do fine
I'm one of the not played Prison Architects people. I'm still a huge fan of the way you communicate to your audience. A lot of people want a good open ended space game, that's why I'm here. I backed star citizen and have never installed it, waiting for it to finish. You guys have a track record of excellence and I'm exited to see where this goes.
It seems like a tech tree is how tutorials are done in these kind of games. You start with basic mechanics and then players unlock the difficulty themselves. I feel like in both Kerbal and Factorio the tech tree serves as way to keep it manageable. They both require changes to advance and unlock harder challenges
Can't say we need this type of metadata deep-dive all too often, but I have to admit it was interesting seeing both how things were going for you in general and of course, where my answers jived with the majority on the questionnaire... I didn't see the launch video, I was one of the bunch of us that saw Quill's video then went & typed 'The Last Starship' in Steam. Also deep into the minority of being one of the old(er) playtesters and one who played for a bit more than 5 hours that first time. Looking forward to a whole load more to come in the next few months, given how well I remember how fleshed-out & complex the systems of Prison Architect eventually got from their starting point...
I've been following Introversion since the days of Uplink on CD - I'm excited to see how The Last Starship develops! I enjoyed the PA development videos, and I'm already enjoying these ones. Getting a peek behind the curtain and seeing both how things are done and why they're done is really fascinating. It really adds a human side to the company, too. I hope you keep them coming!
Remember that you phrased the Prison Architect question as "Have you played it in Early Access" and not "Have you played PA"! Great video as always, I don't follow other devs but your videos are great and very relatable, keep up the great work!
@22:30 This was, indeed, the golden time for me! It really was like this - for a long time. I'm not gonna lie, these monthly updates AND the _required_ update *video* were legendary moments, a real high note in gaming over the years - for me at least. The update and the video created some kind of weird synergy - you just _had_ to go see and implement those things into your prison - large or small. Kinda stopped playing PA on that level once it left IV's stables, so to speak ^-^ I'm just amazed how late to the party I was this time - if over 2k ppl were already invited. I think I saw the video even on its first day, kind of amazing how active a small but super engaged portion of the community really is.
Quill is the one who showed me this game and I immediately went into Steam and got in line. Having watched his video I feel the biggest struggle is "what is required for a functional starship?" Having the initial starship contract already active and provide a basic welcome letter adding flavor text around the contract would help with the initial difficulty curve.
In their defense, Quill looked at the contract page SEVERAL times and never bothered to actually LOOK at the contract page. LOL! The answer was in front of him the entire time!
@@grit9938 Yeah, that's Quill. Doesn't read tooltips or popups. He's otherwise fantastic and taught me a lot about games and development, but this one trait of his frustrates the hell out of me!
This is also possibly where social media can be of influence. Tutorial videos are something which are big in a lot of games, and they can also serve to attract new customers to the game. But you also need Moar boosters.
I can't wait to help. There are a lot of ways to spread general awareness and keep interest rising throughout Early Access. You two are great at building trust. Use your community. There are lots of skilled people here that are more than happy to share their expertise so you can focus on the game.
One suggestion about onboarding is looking at StarSector. That game is complex but simple at the same time, thanks to it's onboarding style. It follows the usual, time-tested practice of space games: tell a short story (a questline) that presents one new aspect of the game at a time. This, and it's well-made UI, turns a scary game with a universe that will eventually devour you into a tame yet exciting adventure. Overall, StarSector is a great positive influence that you could check out, but I believe you guys are in the right direction and can get anything done. Great luck!
@@jonasfringe2793 it isn't on Steam yet. This alone makes people not find it or not try it. It has more content than most "done" games on Steam though. Haha!
So excited you guys are working on something new. I had been checking and checking after Scanner Somber, so excited and a great child hood dream style game too! GG!
Regarding the building of ships, I think this sort of game would really benefit from having to unlock the ability to build your own ship after having to play in a more 'basic' level ship for at least a small while (maybe initially choosing from a list of ship designs for different gameplay approaches). This could help act as a non-scripted tutorial (so not overloading the player with too many options initially), and give a slight sense of progression before the real meat of the design-your-own-ships start. I like the idea of fixed ship designs at the beginning because player restrictions can often lead to more interesting gameplay as you mentioned in the last update, and then by the time they get to build your own they will have a better grasp of what they want to do and shouldn't be so overwhelmed.
I liked this video a lot, very informative and cool to see how you're looking at things. As far as the questionnaire, I would change wtf? To something like "I don't watch introversions UA-cam channel" as it might drive traffic for people to come see more of your videos and updates while still giving you the data you wanted. One cool thing to add to a video like this would be to see, for the number of people who have asked to play test, how many are getting in/cadence of how often you add people. Given that might have an impact on adoption stats you're looking at here. For example, I get into play test, I tell my brother, he tells his friend, etc.
Guys, you are a brand. And you are much loved because of it! I’m a huge fan of Uplink & Darwinia (replayed both over the Lockdowns, and will replay them again at some point). Though I wasn’t really into Prison Architect (though I did follow the game evolution via the email updates). I think you should adjust the questionnaire to mention if testers have played any of your back catalogue. I’ve played some games recently and the tutorials were soooo long and patronising. Don’t forget some of us gamers have a lot of experience of these kind of games and a likely to pick things up quite quickly. Just something to get initial bearings and in game links to the wiki would be fine. This was a fascinating video, more than happy to watch more of your banter. BTW I’d love you guys more if you’d accept my play test request that I sent on day one. ;-P
This is the kind of content I'm here for! Mark, just look at the Project Zomboid community, the game can be very convoluted, not a lot of tutorials (a few help screens) and a massive player base that battled it out and wrote all kinds of help content for it. I think your demographic of gamers are a niche that enjoys complex games. Tooltips would be cool, but it doesnt have to happen now
I discovered you from Ambrosia Sofware releasing Darwnia on Mac back in the day, took some time to find about you Introversion to start with after that, then I found your other game and bought them all without a blink, and enjoyed them all. About the questionnaire, some of my answer would have changed after my second play because I found some answer to some of the thing I got stuck with :D And yes this type of videos is really interesting.
I love seeing this kind of data! If anything, it gives me hope this isn't another entry in Chris' "Fail Masterclass." :D Honestly, I'm really looking forward to not only continued play of this game via playtest, but also to witness the evolution of the game. Thanks, IV!
I've been a long time Introversion fan and while it does feel cool to be in the select few who watch these videos, I do hope The Last Starship succeeds beyond our group. It looks really fun and can't wait to play
Well, the thing is, I played PA, but I didn't play it in early access ... at least according to a quick google search, the release was after I started playing it in 2016 ;) Also, I watch these videos, and I still answered WTF, since it is indeed a stupid question :P Very interesting video, and I also feel lucky/honoured that I got to be one of the first 2000 :D
One of the best things for PA for me was playing early and watching the game evolve with my save and playing with the new features in the updates and watching your update vids. Think I will give this a go for the journey at least.
I had the questionnaire pop up on the first close, but I wanted to play more before responding. I launched the game late and couldn't play enough to form a valuable opinion, it never popped up again. I did found it in browser history and filled it later however. My first playthrough was successful with no tutorial. Reached the end with decent ship, and I liked learning all the things, solving all the issues popping up which was fun to do. I am however aforementioned factorio/Kerbal player so learning systems and solving problems is something I enjoy a lot. I am glad you are back at it, (designing a game, building systems and documenting the dev and decision process in YT videos!)
I am a fan of contextual tutorials. Something that pops as I find new core game mechanics, a simple explanation that doesn't get in the way of my game. I will always skip a fenced in tutorial if possible and figure it out on my own. That being said, simply well done tooltips can be all you need.
I've always liked the videos you guys make. Even if they're about mundane information, you guys can still make the video enjoyable to watch, and its cool to see developers discuss what they are seeing. I honestly like having 'tutorials' be what you start out in. I watched Quills video and he started with a ship with 0 things on it and 100k, but had no idea what to do with it. The second ship he started with the very basics he needs and 10k. Stuff like that makes a good tutorial in my view. maybe make the starting ship an easier go with less missions, or even a storyline to guide the player along with. I dislike pure hand-holding that some games decide to take you on.
I think in terms of onboarding/new player experience, we have to look back to Prison Architect's early days. There really was none, aside from the grants. Grants gave you a sort of general direction to follow, but wasn't too hand-holdy. Eventually, some of the campaign scenarios became more of like a classic tutorial level, but with additional elements that made it feel less like a classic tutorial. Maybe something like that could be added? The mission board could literally have a few "onboarding" type missions, that give a general direction of what to build or do to get started.
I adored the grant system, and while eventually I think PA became a little bit too complicated for it to be sufficient, it does seem like the right idea for player on boarding, especially when a full blown tutorial is, I'm assuming, not in the cards for awhile.
I was big into Prison Architect but fell off of it around the time it got sold to Paradox and Scanner Sombre came out, totally forgot about this channel for a few years, but this video just randomly got recommended on my UA-cam homepage, never heard of the game but recognized/remembered your avatars in the thumbnail, and immediately went to wishlist the game.
On the topic of delaying that complexity bump post-tutorial, I think Rimworld solved this really well with the Learning Helper approach that supplemented new encounters and new scenarios with a little nugget of information to help new players out.
I tried PA once and it just wasn't my cup of tea, but I recognized it was well-made. I love sci-fi and FTL specifically, so when I saw the first update video on Reddit mentioning a space game by you guys, I was immediately intrigued. This game appeals to me far more than PA did (as long as your goal continues to be focusing on ship management over colony sim).
It's interesting listening to you talking about whether or not you want a tutorial in the game / how that affects the difficulty curve. PS, please approve my application for the playtest, I am an eager chap. Love your games and I'm a right junkie for space games. PPS, I bet Space Game Junkie would love to take a look at your game - he's a nice guy.
Love the deep dive format. Would also love a look at some super early prototypes in a similar vein to the fail Masterclass vids, but for the one that failed the failure! Like, how far along was the prototype that made you all say: this. This is the next game we’re making. Thanks!
I really need to play-test this game. Iv'e got literally thousands of hours playtime between ksp, prison archatect, rimworld, ftl and factorio. This game looks like it ticks all the right boxes for me and I can't wait to play it. If I don't get selected to play-test I'm going to do something drastic, like follow you home and pee in your slippers drastic. You've been warned.
Ever since I played Darwinia and Multiwinia in 2008 as a teenager there has been a rockstar type element to these kind of indie game developers. It's the same with Tarn Adams. There is a name recognition behind the games for a section of gamers. There tends to be a community around the game/devs.
I consider you both rockstars, whether we're all dungeon dwelling game devs or not. :p This is good content! Thanks for releasing these updates, they're really enlightening.
I'm one of the 1500, really enjoying what is there so far, even though I haven't gotten the hang of combat at all, every time I take combat missions I end up screwing something up and blow up. But it really brings memories back to Prison Architect early access, or whatever it was called back then since I believe I bought it straight from the website before early access was a thing. I can see myself playing a little bit every update to explore some more and every few updates doing longer, starting from scratch, runs. The very base of a great game is there, now all it needs is time to expand and evolve.
I had played PA since Alpha 16. And the combination of update and update video was something I was really looking forward to. I really miss this experience.
I'm sure someone else has pointed it out, but that question specifically says that they played prison architect in early access. I'd bet a majority of the people that said no have played prison architect, but only after the full release. Asking "who is better" is a pretty wtf question. I couldn't choose a side I also love these dives into the stats and surveys and all the backend things you never really experience unless you have made a popular game. If you guys have a bit of time to spare, you might want to check out People Make Games' video on subnautica. Or just Subnautica's feedback button in general. It's a really interesting way that they made submitting feedback a super easy process for the players
The first Introversion game I played was Uplink and I became a hardcore follower after seeing 'Subversion' WIP videos. Of course that games cancellation was disappointing, but it left me with the knowledge that IV Software wants to make games that are right up my alley. Still hoping they will find a gameplay loop to fit with a Subversion-like game someday... Anyway... looking forward to The Last Starhip, too!
Factorio is a great example of a minimalist tutorial. You can easily and quickly learn the basics of "how to play", while understanding every minute intricacy of how it actually works takes hundreds of hours of gameplay.
I'm a 'band follower' , but only a small number of studios/developers keep my attention. Introversion.. obviously. But also I've been playing Julian Gollop's games since Laser Squad, Obsidian do a pretty good job of keeping my attention as do Inxile these days. Now.. that said... this groupie would love to play test! :)
Ima comment this every time! (That I remember to) Reverse thrusters and conservation of energy! If u got big thrusters on the back, u need them on the front or u need to flip the ship! If u accelerate, u keep ur speed until u decelerate. Its just a must have for space games for me or it doesn't feel like a space game, so I didn't get very far into the demo because of this. Its just that important for me.
I laugh and cringe everything I hear the last starship intro. It's great. I was sad I found out a month after the first video missing out on the first boat of invites. Am I stoked about the fact that my favourite genre and developers are doing this. You guys are fantastic. Keep up the amazing work
This is amazing information, I just wish I could actually test the game and help with the data. Can we get a projection of how often you gents intend on adding more testers?
oooo I'm one of 1500. The first time I tried was hard work. The second was easier and I got through to the end of the demo. Like it. Looking forward to see the game develop.
I played Prison Architect in Early Access, and enjoyed the heck out of it at the start. Where I hit the wall and had to stop playing was when dogs got added, as that was yet another system that had to be up and running on day 1-ish even for lowsec and the cognitive load overwhelmed the fun. I know IV fans love many layers of complex systems, but I really hope I can play The Last Starship before it becomes too big for me to handle. I saw a recommendation to defer some gameplay systems to after X jumps, and another recommendation to allow some systems to be automatically satisfied with no infrastructure (as a difficulty setting); count me in favor of those recommendations as well.
100% look at the dev and publisher of games. But also in the minority as a Linux player. Studios that have done consistent and solid Linux native builds (even if hidden away like Scanner Sombre's was) are always at the top of my list. It's a big part of why I backed Prison Architect in early access. If anything, they've also just been far more responsive to bug reports too. Some AAA studios that outsource their Mac and Linux ports take months and months to get a well documented bug to anyone that can even test it, then months more to fix it. I've tested 100+ ports across all levels of studios, and it's quite frustrating at times the range of response given.
20:30 do note that the "30USD is a fair price for this game" question is gonna give you skewed results due to the wording of the answers. The "No" option is worded in a highly negative way, which may sway people away from that option even if they think 30USD is too much. Try to be more neutral with each answer option given, to get completely objective results. (Yeah i work with this stuff)
If Introversion Software has 100.000 fans, I'm one of the many. If Introversion Software has 1000 fans, I'm one of the few. If Introversion Software has only one fan, that fan is Me. If Introversion Software has no fans, that's because I'm dead. If you hate on Introversion Software, you have to hate on me too.
I am one that played it for only a short time and didn’t fill out the questionnaire. I didn’t because I didn’t think I had played enough to have a decent opinion. Now I feel bad I didn’t answer lol. Anyway, love PA and looking forward to playing this early version some more.
Instead of a ”handholding” tutorial, which you seem to want to avoid, you could have an even more basic starting point. Maybe starting with only 1 crew amidst wreckage, or another setup where you can further stripdown the game to its core essence. Assuming the wreckage setup, I imagine the player ”waking up” and having to assemble a ”level 0” spaceship, that’s limited to some basic priniples: engine, fuel, maybe some pipes and controls. Definitly no lifesupport or armored hull. Allowing players to learn (dis)assemble mechanics by having a very limited scope of available items and ”instructions” via the same prompts as the quests. Then you can escape the wreckage, maybe encounter a shop, build up to basic requirements to jump? Maybe a small system with a handfull of destinations before you jump to the next sector and reach the ’current’ starting point?
Really interesting video. Also, I'm under the impression of the game being good ends up being an influence. Be it because word of mouth or thumbs up enough push it upwards to recommendations.
I played PA a little bit... turns out I'm not that into it I enjoyed watching people play it more than actually playing it, still followed the dev diaries. I might like this game more I think.
Introversion definitely has some die-hard fans... I mean I think I still have my second copy of Uplink around here somewhere... ahh the days of Code-Sheet copy-protection..
just a thought about monetisation: go the factorio route, start at 15bucks, get closer to 30bucks towards 1.0. im more likely to jump in early at a low price and play the hottest code experimental build instead of waiting for a polished release. money is tight and gets tighter every month. also, a demo version should be a given. saying that, you should definetely involve your community into the game design phases and balancing and feature suggestions. experimental build branch, seperate from stable build, and maybe weekly or bi-weekly devblogs. sorry guys, you mentioned factorio, and its devs are the gold standard for community involvement in indi games, for me and other lovers of indi games.
To echo another comment, I think re-using the grant system from Prison Architect would be the best way forwards here, especially if you want to avoid a tutorial. It doesn't seem to take as much development time, and it would still guide new players enough that, with some motivation, they aren't going to be hitting a brick wall of complexity they have no means of bypassing.
Maybe try to use a: tips, hints, and small on screen key binding reminders when people touch an object they haven't before Perhaps with one of the fancy systems that remembers what it's suggested before and doesn't do it again, unless they reset it in the settings.
The final version better have a toggle to let us have this classic "The Last Starship" intro sting.
YES!!!! *The last starshiiiiiiiiiiiip*
Well, we *do* have the recording.... now we only need to _endure long enough_ to make the simple lil mod ourselves =) *_Noted_*
It better bloody have
Better yet, have it so that if we go to the main menu and type "dulcettones"(there's no text box or anything), then we enable "sirens' call mode" ... Every time you boot up the game, start a new game, or load a save, you get marks' marvellous intro!
Sounds like a job for a Konami code
Man, I’m just glad that Mark finally greenlit a Chris Delay Space Logistics Factorio Architect Game.
I'm glad these hacks are finally back to work 😅
Listen listen so it's prison architect factorio, but in space
@@eccod5637 Splattercatgaming:
When your advertising and marketing is a meta-analysis of marketing and advertising in the indi gaming market lol
Interesting video with lots of interesting information!
Honestly half of my love for PA was following the dev logs and listening to your banter/update videos. :D
That open world cliff can be a huge hurdle. I find one thing that helps out a lot, rather than a tutorial, is a guided campaign that starts with a tutorial, and then gradually introduces features and gameplay elements. Instead of the open world feeling like a wall of complexity, it ends up looking like an open field of freedom. I really enjoyed Prison Architect in the early alphas, but as it got more and more complex, it became very overwhelming to try and play post release.
Yea, something like No Man's Sky did.
They mention Factorio a lot. The guide there is great. Optional Tutorial followed by when you unlock/try a new feature. Little pop-up says do you want to learn about this? and you can happily ignore it or read every single tip it gives. Gives the hardcore players a chance to learn everything on their own while allowing for the more timid group to be guided as much as they need.
As long as their guides are better than Factorio trying to teach trains they'll do fine
I'm dating myself, but it makes me think of Freelancer.
FYI - despite being subscribed, UA-cam didn't serve me the first video. So I only picked up on this release when the second video dropped!
Same deal, I didn't even hear about it until almost 2 weeks after the facts
same here, I got it on steam and then watched the video xD
I'm one of the not played Prison Architects people. I'm still a huge fan of the way you communicate to your audience. A lot of people want a good open ended space game, that's why I'm here. I backed star citizen and have never installed it, waiting for it to finish. You guys have a track record of excellence and I'm exited to see where this goes.
These guys make the most enjoyable devlogs in the industry
It seems like a tech tree is how tutorials are done in these kind of games. You start with basic mechanics and then players unlock the difficulty themselves. I feel like in both Kerbal and Factorio the tech tree serves as way to keep it manageable. They both require changes to advance and unlock harder challenges
Can't say we need this type of metadata deep-dive all too often, but I have to admit it was interesting seeing both how things were going for you in general and of course, where my answers jived with the majority on the questionnaire...
I didn't see the launch video, I was one of the bunch of us that saw Quill's video then went & typed 'The Last Starship' in Steam. Also deep into the minority of being one of the old(er) playtesters and one who played for a bit more than 5 hours that first time. Looking forward to a whole load more to come in the next few months, given how well I remember how fleshed-out & complex the systems of Prison Architect eventually got from their starting point...
I've been following Introversion since the days of Uplink on CD - I'm excited to see how The Last Starship develops!
I enjoyed the PA development videos, and I'm already enjoying these ones. Getting a peek behind the curtain and seeing both how things are done and why they're done is really fascinating. It really adds a human side to the company, too.
I hope you keep them coming!
Remember that you phrased the Prison Architect question as "Have you played it in Early Access" and not "Have you played PA"!
Great video as always, I don't follow other devs but your videos are great and very relatable, keep up the great work!
ASpec also did a first impressions livestream just some hours ago. Just like Quill18, really, stumbling hilariously over how to starship.
I'm just eagerly awaiting my chance to get to play it. Hope you'll add more people soon.
@22:30 This was, indeed, the golden time for me! It really was like this - for a long time. I'm not gonna lie, these monthly updates AND the _required_ update *video* were legendary moments, a real high note in gaming over the years - for me at least. The update and the video created some kind of weird synergy - you just _had_ to go see and implement those things into your prison - large or small. Kinda stopped playing PA on that level once it left IV's stables, so to speak ^-^
I'm just amazed how late to the party I was this time - if over 2k ppl were already invited. I think I saw the video even on its first day, kind of amazing how active a small but super engaged portion of the community really is.
Quill is the one who showed me this game and I immediately went into Steam and got in line. Having watched his video I feel the biggest struggle is "what is required for a functional starship?" Having the initial starship contract already active and provide a basic welcome letter adding flavor text around the contract would help with the initial difficulty curve.
In their defense, Quill looked at the contract page SEVERAL times and never bothered to actually LOOK at the contract page. LOL! The answer was in front of him the entire time!
@@grit9938 That's just Quill though. He's really bad at video games :/ :p
@@grit9938 Yeah, that's Quill. Doesn't read tooltips or popups. He's otherwise fantastic and taught me a lot about games and development, but this one trait of his frustrates the hell out of me!
This is also possibly where social media can be of influence. Tutorial videos are something which are big in a lot of games, and they can also serve to attract new customers to the game.
But you also need Moar boosters.
I can't wait to help. There are a lot of ways to spread general awareness and keep interest rising throughout Early Access. You two are great at building trust. Use your community. There are lots of skilled people here that are more than happy to share their expertise so you can focus on the game.
Chris: "There's never a future... where this 'Mark' box is bigger than this 'Chris' box". 😢
Also, more deep dives!
One suggestion about onboarding is looking at StarSector. That game is complex but simple at the same time, thanks to it's onboarding style. It follows the usual, time-tested practice of space games: tell a short story (a questline) that presents one new aspect of the game at a time. This, and it's well-made UI, turns a scary game with a universe that will eventually devour you into a tame yet exciting adventure.
Overall, StarSector is a great positive influence that you could check out, but I believe you guys are in the right direction and can get anything done. Great luck!
Intriguing... Hadn't even heard of it, for all the time it's been around apparently. 😅
@@jonasfringe2793 it isn't on Steam yet. This alone makes people not find it or not try it. It has more content than most "done" games on Steam though. Haha!
So excited you guys are working on something new. I had been checking and checking after Scanner Somber, so excited and a great child hood dream style game too! GG!
Regarding the building of ships, I think this sort of game would really benefit from having to unlock the ability to build your own ship after having to play in a more 'basic' level ship for at least a small while (maybe initially choosing from a list of ship designs for different gameplay approaches).
This could help act as a non-scripted tutorial (so not overloading the player with too many options initially), and give a slight sense of progression before the real meat of the design-your-own-ships start.
I like the idea of fixed ship designs at the beginning because player restrictions can often lead to more interesting gameplay as you mentioned in the last update, and then by the time they get to build your own they will have a better grasp of what they want to do and shouldn't be so overwhelmed.
I liked this video a lot, very informative and cool to see how you're looking at things.
As far as the questionnaire, I would change wtf? To something like "I don't watch introversions UA-cam channel" as it might drive traffic for people to come see more of your videos and updates while still giving you the data you wanted.
One cool thing to add to a video like this would be to see, for the number of people who have asked to play test, how many are getting in/cadence of how often you add people. Given that might have an impact on adoption stats you're looking at here. For example, I get into play test, I tell my brother, he tells his friend, etc.
Guys, you are a brand. And you are much loved because of it! I’m a huge fan of Uplink & Darwinia (replayed both over the Lockdowns, and will replay them again at some point). Though I wasn’t really into Prison Architect (though I did follow the game evolution via the email updates).
I think you should adjust the questionnaire to mention if testers have played any of your back catalogue.
I’ve played some games recently and the tutorials were soooo long and patronising. Don’t forget some of us gamers have a lot of experience of these kind of games and a likely to pick things up quite quickly. Just something to get initial bearings and in game links to the wiki would be fine.
This was a fascinating video, more than happy to watch more of your banter.
BTW I’d love you guys more if you’d accept my play test request that I sent on day one. ;-P
It truly sounds like you guys are working hard and taking your time to make a truly enjoyable game for people who enjoy exactly this!
This is the kind of content I'm here for! Mark, just look at the Project Zomboid community, the game can be very convoluted, not a lot of tutorials (a few help screens) and a massive player base that battled it out and wrote all kinds of help content for it. I think your demographic of gamers are a niche that enjoys complex games. Tooltips would be cool, but it doesnt have to happen now
I discovered you from Ambrosia Sofware releasing Darwnia on Mac back in the day, took some time to find about you Introversion to start with after that, then I found your other game and bought them all without a blink, and enjoyed them all.
About the questionnaire, some of my answer would have changed after my second play because I found some answer to some of the thing I got stuck with :D
And yes this type of videos is really interesting.
I really enjoyed this. Thank you for sharing the process and your thoughts!
I love seeing this kind of data! If anything, it gives me hope this isn't another entry in Chris' "Fail Masterclass." :D Honestly, I'm really looking forward to not only continued play of this game via playtest, but also to witness the evolution of the game. Thanks, IV!
I've been a long time Introversion fan and while it does feel cool to be in the select few who watch these videos, I do hope The Last Starship succeeds beyond our group. It looks really fun and can't wait to play
Making games will set the reputation of your company and will have players looking for new games. Awesome video, love it.
Well, the thing is, I played PA, but I didn't play it in early access ... at least according to a quick google search, the release was after I started playing it in 2016 ;)
Also, I watch these videos, and I still answered WTF, since it is indeed a stupid question :P
Very interesting video, and I also feel lucky/honoured that I got to be one of the first 2000 :D
One of the best things for PA for me was playing early and watching the game evolve with my save and playing with the new features in the updates and watching your update vids. Think I will give this a go for the journey at least.
As a fellow game dev, this is super interesting. It's always great to see how steam does things or how different approaches may work (or don't)
I had the questionnaire pop up on the first close, but I wanted to play more before responding. I launched the game late and couldn't play enough to form a valuable opinion, it never popped up again. I did found it in browser history and filled it later however. My first playthrough was successful with no tutorial. Reached the end with decent ship, and I liked learning all the things, solving all the issues popping up which was fun to do. I am however aforementioned factorio/Kerbal player so learning systems and solving problems is something I enjoy a lot.
I am glad you are back at it, (designing a game, building systems and documenting the dev and decision process in YT videos!)
The questionnaire be like: _"I'm sorry Thorinbur, I'm afraid I can't do that."_ =)
I am a fan of contextual tutorials. Something that pops as I find new core game mechanics, a simple explanation that doesn't get in the way of my game. I will always skip a fenced in tutorial if possible and figure it out on my own.
That being said, simply well done tooltips can be all you need.
I've always liked the videos you guys make. Even if they're about mundane information, you guys can still make the video enjoyable to watch, and its cool to see developers discuss what they are seeing.
I honestly like having 'tutorials' be what you start out in. I watched Quills video and he started with a ship with 0 things on it and 100k, but had no idea what to do with it. The second ship he started with the very basics he needs and 10k. Stuff like that makes a good tutorial in my view. maybe make the starting ship an easier go with less missions, or even a storyline to guide the player along with. I dislike pure hand-holding that some games decide to take you on.
that jingle kills me each time, never change it!
I think in terms of onboarding/new player experience, we have to look back to Prison Architect's early days. There really was none, aside from the grants. Grants gave you a sort of general direction to follow, but wasn't too hand-holdy. Eventually, some of the campaign scenarios became more of like a classic tutorial level, but with additional elements that made it feel less like a classic tutorial.
Maybe something like that could be added? The mission board could literally have a few "onboarding" type missions, that give a general direction of what to build or do to get started.
I adored the grant system, and while eventually I think PA became a little bit too complicated for it to be sufficient, it does seem like the right idea for player on boarding, especially when a full blown tutorial is, I'm assuming, not in the cards for awhile.
I enjoyed videos like this for PA, I'm only just seeing these now. Looking forward to seeing more!
Wish you guys all the best. Love your games.
I was big into Prison Architect but fell off of it around the time it got sold to Paradox and Scanner Sombre came out, totally forgot about this channel for a few years, but this video just randomly got recommended on my UA-cam homepage, never heard of the game but recognized/remembered your avatars in the thumbnail, and immediately went to wishlist the game.
On the topic of delaying that complexity bump post-tutorial, I think Rimworld solved this really well with the Learning Helper approach that supplemented new encounters and new scenarios with a little nugget of information to help new players out.
I tried PA once and it just wasn't my cup of tea, but I recognized it was well-made. I love sci-fi and FTL specifically, so when I saw the first update video on Reddit mentioning a space game by you guys, I was immediately intrigued. This game appeals to me far more than PA did (as long as your goal continues to be focusing on ship management over colony sim).
Oh, now I got it the Playtest is very small now. Learned a lot from the Deep Dive. Thanks.
It's interesting listening to you talking about whether or not you want a tutorial in the game / how that affects the difficulty curve.
PS, please approve my application for the playtest, I am an eager chap. Love your games and I'm a right junkie for space games.
PPS, I bet Space Game Junkie would love to take a look at your game - he's a nice guy.
Love the deep dive format. Would also love a look at some super early prototypes in a similar vein to the fail Masterclass vids, but for the one that failed the failure!
Like, how far along was the prototype that made you all say: this. This is the next game we’re making.
Thanks!
I always love these updates.. keep them coming!
I really need to play-test this game. Iv'e got literally thousands of hours playtime between ksp, prison archatect, rimworld, ftl and factorio. This game looks like it ticks all the right boxes for me and I can't wait to play it. If I don't get selected to play-test I'm going to do something drastic, like follow you home and pee in your slippers drastic. You've been warned.
Ever since I played Darwinia and Multiwinia in 2008 as a teenager there has been a rockstar type element to these kind of indie game developers. It's the same with Tarn Adams. There is a name recognition behind the games for a section of gamers. There tends to be a community around the game/devs.
God damn I hope I get into the playtest. I've been consumed by these types of games lately. This looks amazing.
I consider you both rockstars, whether we're all dungeon dwelling game devs or not. :p This is good content! Thanks for releasing these updates, they're really enlightening.
Game looks so great - Can't wait to get a chance to try out the playtest!
Please do more, maybe less often like fortmonthly, but please continue to do this!
I'm one of the 1500, really enjoying what is there so far, even though I haven't gotten the hang of combat at all, every time I take combat missions I end up screwing something up and blow up. But it really brings memories back to Prison Architect early access, or whatever it was called back then since I believe I bought it straight from the website before early access was a thing. I can see myself playing a little bit every update to explore some more and every few updates doing longer, starting from scratch, runs. The very base of a great game is there, now all it needs is time to expand and evolve.
I had played PA since Alpha 16. And the combination of update and update video was something I was really looking forward to. I really miss this experience.
Exactly this! I loved how the game grew around us with the videos tying it together.
I'm sure someone else has pointed it out, but that question specifically says that they played prison architect in early access. I'd bet a majority of the people that said no have played prison architect, but only after the full release.
Asking "who is better" is a pretty wtf question. I couldn't choose a side
I also love these dives into the stats and surveys and all the backend things you never really experience unless you have made a popular game. If you guys have a bit of time to spare, you might want to check out People Make Games' video on subnautica. Or just Subnautica's feedback button in general. It's a really interesting way that they made submitting feedback a super easy process for the players
The first Introversion game I played was Uplink and I became a hardcore follower after seeing 'Subversion' WIP videos. Of course that games cancellation was disappointing, but it left me with the knowledge that IV Software wants to make games that are right up my alley. Still hoping they will find a gameplay loop to fit with a Subversion-like game someday...
Anyway... looking forward to The Last Starhip, too!
Factorio is a great example of a minimalist tutorial. You can easily and quickly learn the basics of "how to play", while understanding every minute intricacy of how it actually works takes hundreds of hours of gameplay.
i fucking love all your update videos. Can't wait to try the game.
4 months later... there are no new update about this project? I was very curious and intrigued by the gameplay... I hope development keeps going.
discovery queue often recommends something your friends play/wishlist. That's liekly the cause for the discovery queue following other sources
we should really try to break the universe by voting Mark > Chris in the next
I'm a 'band follower' , but only a small number of studios/developers keep my attention. Introversion.. obviously. But also I've been playing Julian Gollop's games since Laser Squad, Obsidian do a pretty good job of keeping my attention as do Inxile these days. Now.. that said... this groupie would love to play test! :)
Ima comment this every time! (That I remember to) Reverse thrusters and conservation of energy! If u got big thrusters on the back, u need them on the front or u need to flip the ship! If u accelerate, u keep ur speed until u decelerate. Its just a must have for space games for me or it doesn't feel like a space game, so I didn't get very far into the demo because of this. Its just that important for me.
I laugh and cringe everything I hear the last starship intro. It's great. I was sad I found out a month after the first video missing out on the first boat of invites.
Am I stoked about the fact that my favourite genre and developers are doing this. You guys are fantastic. Keep up the amazing work
Hmm never got a test code, and I signed up instantly when your first video about this launched.
You guys are definitely characters and personalities.
Great insights. Thanks for sharing.
This is amazing information, I just wish I could actually test the game and help with the data. Can we get a projection of how often you gents intend on adding more testers?
I'd honestly pay money to test it lmao
@@VynalDerp Honestly I would too. This is the first time in years that I've actually been excited for a game.
@@nauticalnonsensebby I was like: *Ooooo* they are making a space game! and instantly added it to my Wishlist.
Please keep making these!
oooo I'm one of 1500. The first time I tried was hard work. The second was easier and I got through to the end of the demo. Like it. Looking forward to see the game develop.
Keep the deep dives coming.
Learning a complex but compelling game can be very fulfilling. See dwarf fortress. You don't need to go that far, though.
Love you too Mark
Oooh! I just added your game to my Wishlist!
Greatest video intro yet!!
I played Prison Architect in Early Access, and enjoyed the heck out of it at the start. Where I hit the wall and had to stop playing was when dogs got added, as that was yet another system that had to be up and running on day 1-ish even for lowsec and the cognitive load overwhelmed the fun. I know IV fans love many layers of complex systems, but I really hope I can play The Last Starship before it becomes too big for me to handle. I saw a recommendation to defer some gameplay systems to after X jumps, and another recommendation to allow some systems to be automatically satisfied with no infrastructure (as a difficulty setting); count me in favor of those recommendations as well.
Very interesting. Yes more please.
I wish you guys would do like a weekly update thing again like you did with prison architect at the beginning
100% look at the dev and publisher of games. But also in the minority as a Linux player. Studios that have done consistent and solid Linux native builds (even if hidden away like Scanner Sombre's was) are always at the top of my list. It's a big part of why I backed Prison Architect in early access. If anything, they've also just been far more responsive to bug reports too. Some AAA studios that outsource their Mac and Linux ports take months and months to get a well documented bug to anyone that can even test it, then months more to fix it. I've tested 100+ ports across all levels of studios, and it's quite frustrating at times the range of response given.
20:30 do note that the "30USD is a fair price for this game" question is gonna give you skewed results due to the wording of the answers.
The "No" option is worded in a highly negative way, which may sway people away from that option even if they think 30USD is too much.
Try to be more neutral with each answer option given, to get completely objective results.
(Yeah i work with this stuff)
I will gladly buy this, not on steam, for a higher price.
If Introversion Software has 100.000 fans, I'm one of the many.
If Introversion Software has 1000 fans, I'm one of the few.
If Introversion Software has only one fan, that fan is Me.
If Introversion Software has no fans, that's because I'm dead.
If you hate on Introversion Software, you have to hate on me too.
Amen.
let me innnnnnn, let me in!!!!
The anomaly accelerating faster on each sector is a little troublesome, unless you have an end point for travel even further away
So fun just watching you to talk about stuff...
Have you thought about making a podcast?
Not another game where I can never get into the play testing... Great that so many people are interested though!
Chris, your hubris has made me decide to pick "Mark" on the next survey. :D
Also, I enjoyed this video.
I am one that played it for only a short time and didn’t fill out the questionnaire. I didn’t because I didn’t think I had played enough to have a decent opinion. Now I feel bad I didn’t answer lol. Anyway, love PA and looking forward to playing this early version some more.
Instead of a ”handholding” tutorial, which you seem to want to avoid, you could have an even more basic starting point. Maybe starting with only 1 crew amidst wreckage, or another setup where you can further stripdown the game to its core essence. Assuming the wreckage setup, I imagine the player ”waking up” and having to assemble a ”level 0” spaceship, that’s limited to some basic priniples: engine, fuel, maybe some pipes and controls. Definitly no lifesupport or armored hull. Allowing players to learn (dis)assemble mechanics by having a very limited scope of available items and ”instructions” via the same prompts as the quests. Then you can escape the wreckage, maybe encounter a shop, build up to basic requirements to jump? Maybe a small system with a handfull of destinations before you jump to the next sector and reach the ’current’ starting point?
Really interesting video. Also, I'm under the impression of the game being good ends up being an influence. Be it because word of mouth or thumbs up enough push it upwards to recommendations.
And not knowing makes it frustrated but I’ll keep playing.
I played PA a little bit... turns out I'm not that into it I enjoyed watching people play it more than actually playing it, still followed the dev diaries.
I might like this game more I think.
Introversion definitely has some die-hard fans... I mean I think I still have my second copy of Uplink around here somewhere... ahh the days of Code-Sheet copy-protection..
just a thought about monetisation: go the factorio route, start at 15bucks, get closer to 30bucks towards 1.0.
im more likely to jump in early at a low price and play the hottest code experimental build instead of waiting for a polished release. money is tight and gets tighter every month. also, a demo version should be a given.
saying that, you should definetely involve your community into the game design phases and balancing and feature suggestions. experimental build branch, seperate from stable build, and maybe weekly or bi-weekly devblogs.
sorry guys, you mentioned factorio, and its devs are the gold standard for community involvement in indi games, for me and other lovers of indi games.
As a nerd deep dives and numbers are always interesting
To echo another comment, I think re-using the grant system from Prison Architect would be the best way forwards here, especially if you want to avoid a tutorial. It doesn't seem to take as much development time, and it would still guide new players enough that, with some motivation, they aren't going to be hitting a brick wall of complexity they have no means of bypassing.
You needed the "why" follow up question to Chris or Mark question
Maybe try to use a: tips, hints, and small on screen key binding reminders when people touch an object they haven't before
Perhaps with one of the fancy systems that remembers what it's suggested before and doesn't do it again, unless they reset it in the settings.
I am interested in playing it, but my free time is very limited so I think other people can give you more feedback. So I wait for a wider release.