"I'm sorry, Thomas", said the fat controller; "It is not economically viable to fit you with CBTC, so we will have to brick you up here where you will remain for eternity". *Roll credits*
@Ady P James said he was disgusted by this and 'ran' away. Gordon found out he was able to file for a redo turning him into a modern powercar. James was later found dead.
And then the Conductors jobs (George, Ringo, and Alec) was taken over by automation, rendering them redundant; so Sir Tapham Hatt fired them all as a cost cutting measure. Where George went on to become addicted to crack; Ringo had a not so successful career as a solo artist; and Alec went on to become a famous actor; and Sir Topham Hatt eventually got diabetes, and had to have his leg amputated.
The upgrades to automation not being feasible for old equipment is a real issue. For the past several years, on the opening home game of the baseball season for each of our teams, the New York City Subway brought out a retired train from the museum fleet to take fans to the game. (They also do it for postseason games, if the team makes it). They had to end one of those trains, the “Redbirds”/“Train of Many Colors” to the Mets game because the Flushing Line has adopted the same Thales system. Unless something like a portable system is designed that can be attached to legacy rolling stock only when needed and moved around as needed, we’re both going to loose something special in the future.
As a non Londoner and rarely venturing to the outskirts of the capital when I do visit, can I just say how great it is to see interoperable working between the National Rail and Underground fleets. I didn't realise how extensive it was.
When the Victoria Line was opened in 1969, delayed by the train guards strike over their jobs becoming redundant on other lines, the Victoria Line trains were fully automated. All the driver did was close the doors and maintain pressure on the DMH, the train drove itself, he was the safety back up in case the system failed. The DMH was his back up if he became incapacitated. They could also be driven manually.
The control system for the Victoria Line was (and maybe still is) coded in Ada. At the time, it was the only programming language that was also certified for the nuclear industry. Noting that the only accidents in that industry have human causes, lḿ happy to ride in a train controlled by Ada!
A very interesting and educational video here Simon, I've certainly learnt a few things about CBTC. However, the Battery Locos and D Stock shall still be manually driven, however shall be driven to a 'Target Speed' that the CBTC shall set and change when necessary. When passing a Target Speed of 0, it is also considered a SPAD.
Great video, really interesting and very well explained. So, the oldest metro system in the world is getting ready to face XXI century. The design of both the old and the newest trains is so distinctive and so iconic... I love it!
The undergound system in UK is far behind countries like japan or China we have the one of the shittest underground system in the world besides the USA
Saajidh that’s not something you can proud of like you were the colony for almost the whole world also for the fucking cross rail been build for over damn 10 more years and cost over billions still not finished when Japan and China can build less than two years.There are nothing to be proud of the UK underground system its dirty and outdated tech also they don’t even fucking a aircon on the train where in other Asian They has them all.
A very well made and informative film. I live about 40 miles outside London, and last used the Underground (and visited London) nearly 20 years ago, and I had no idea there was automation to this extent. Credit to the designers of these systems - a pity that there have to be compromises. The old 'Drain' -Waterloo and City Line - might never be the same again!
As someone from the city of Vancouver, Canada that has a metro system that has been automated since 1986 (named the Expo Line) I just wanna say congratulations to all the amazing people of the UK for having this piece of innovation in service. Warm regards from your fellow country in the Commonwealth, Canada
The Expo Line system is driverless (level 4), i.e. a higher level of automation, its more comparable to London's DLR (1987). The reason this system in London is interesting is the interoperability aspect, and for Londoners hopefully it means a better level of service. The Queen sends her regards.
That was nice footage of the heritage fleet. And nice shot of the work train. I drive trains for MTA NYCTA Over here in USA. And I drive those work trains.
Toronto, Canada, is upgrading their subway system to the extent that driverless trains would be possible. However, the union has decreed that that is NOT an option! We will be able to run more trains, closer together, but not driverless!!
The Underground has been running at least one form of automatic operation for over 50 years, the first being the Woodford-Hainault section of the Central line in the 60s which was converted as a trial in anticipation for the Victoria Line, which was the first fully automatic line in 1968.
Very interesting video. The 7 Flushing line in New York is also converting to CBTC. I notice that the signals are always constantly flashing on the 7. I think Thales is also part of that project.
Battery Locos and D Stock will not be able to run automatically. They will be able to interact with the signalling, but will still be manually operated by the driver. Similar to how the battery locos work on ATP and TBTC and the 60 and 62 stocks work on ATP.
QuarioQuario54321 It won’t work CBTC overlaid over old signals, I remember when the Jubilee line had a the dual fitted area, it totally failed and was scrapped
Excellent video! It almost makes me glad I left LU. I much prefer to actually drive the train than just sitting letting the train do it for you! ATO was one of the reasons I went to the District from the Jubilee because the union reckoned it would be 'decades' before the technology was available for SSL! Still a fascinating video though. Thanks!
DistrictDriver I did work experience on the Jubilee line before ATO and it was so much better driving the train. Once it went ATO, it became almost like a Toy train it didn’t feel real if you get want I mean
I wonder if one day interoperability will be a possibility again. Perhaps in the future it will be decided to "upgrade" all the ATO lines to use the same system.
Funny to think there was a time when there was certain rolling stock that could truly use the entire Underground network, as long as there were the third and fourth rails, it would work!
Philadelphia's Market-Frankford line has had CBTC since the 90's and they in fact can safely run trains closer together, and take curves faster. Most seem pleased with the result.
That's actually quite interesting! I had no idea SelTrac still existed until I visited London some six years ago and took the DLR. I wasn't sure it was SelTrac that was operating the trains though and only read up about it afterwards. However, by now I had again completely forgotten SelTrac was behind the DLR - and many other automated train systems throughout the world as on our local subway system they ceased to use SelTrac some 25 years ago! I still remember the huge stickers on the trains though letting passengers know they are about to board an automated train. So yeah, here in Berlin, SelTrac is, unfortunately, "forgotten technology". Nice to see it's been successfully implemented in other parts of the world though!
@@forza223bowe5 No. We do have an autonomous bus though - which is limited to 5 km/h (?) and only runs on the premises of a hospital. As far as I know, there are no plans whatsoever to re-introduce SelTrac-operated trains here in Berlin in the foreseeable future. I think they have an automated subway - one line - in Nürnberg in southern Germany though, but that's about it for the entire country. For more than one reason, Germany is not very much into things like SelTrac. The irony here because SelTrac was originally invented by a German company is not lost on me though.
I was there but short on time - had to rush to get back to my hotel to get my bag and go to the airport to catch my flight home. This explains the awful picture. I would like to return and if I do then I will aim to get some better images and publish on Wikipedia using a CC0 copyright.
@@CitytransportInfoplus hopefully when you are back to HK, there will be an actually law that's not so loopholey for the china side to use, and also impact foreigners that heavy ( search YT on the so-called "hong kong riot")
what worries me is China sending in the army, perhaps followed by a 1989 Tiananmen Square event where many were killed (exact numbers unknown - could have been thousands)
Depends where you are, in most places around the world the light's colour is Amber but people still call it yellow. In Sydney for example, they are amber lights, but most people call them yellow. (I am pretty sure the correct term is amber though).
Also if I am correct When the new Elizabeth Line is fully up and running All underground sections on the Elizabeth Line will operate the same way switching between this new Automated signalling systems and when out of the underground lines on normal tracks will use the normal signalling systems I say this because in the last majour report announced why the Elizabeth Line full opening will be delayed is because not only are some stations not finished but they said several signalling systems were in the process of being combined into one signal system so that more trains can be run especially at peak times when demand is more higher, so they have to do hundreads if not thousands of hours of testing on the new systems to ensure the new system will work properly with several systems running on one signal system it is a requirement to be able to operate safely and get the appropriate operating licences needed.
The signalling system in question that's causing the delays isn't the main system used underground from what I hear, but actually the signalling system down to Heathrow which needs modification.
Mme Tussaud's still operates there (per that PA), because our own folded by the late-80s here?! So, does the driver decide when to shut the doors, or is their operation also on auto-pilot? And in those couple of ATO scenes where the trains uselessly dwell still in the platforms for several seconds before the doors finally open, does that suspenseful dwell also occur outside ATO turf? Plenty of info about all its new assets yet sketchy details on how ATO itself there functions. Interesting that you come out with this, because two years on it dawned on me a few days ago that I've never sussed out whether a driver's manually driven any of our Azurs I've ridden..they're supposed to manually drive a certain amount of hours per week so as to never become rusty at driving if you will..those who come to a smooth stop from 40MPH in 70 metres' distance are, needless to say, t h r i l l i n g !
To talk about the dwell after arriving, I don't know if its the same situation or not but here in the US, WMATA in Washington DC does the same thing. I think its used as a safety precaution to ensure the train is properly berthed and gives the driver a second to check everything but I could be wrong.
Along with Fr'isco and NYC, DC indeed came to mind when noticing those dwells he filmed. Our '70s fleet's programmed to open its doors in the platform once speed brakes to ⅕MPH..the reverse dwell if you will happens in that I won't step onto the moving train (my foot'll hover one or two seconds as though I were a stork), although stepping off one's never a problem..the speed threshold on our Azurs, however, is lower, seemingly at ⅒MPH. However, I'd bet that our forthcoming driverless REM - the complementary suburban metro à la DLR - is quite likely to have such precautionary dwells programmed into its software.
@@trainrover Basically REM will be like the newly opened Sydney métro. Alstom trains and Alstom Urbalis signalisation. This is how it will work. The videos show there are a few glitches for the all-new system, but overall it works well. After the opening phase glitches and bugs are solved, and the ATO is adapted to local conditions of traffic and train load. So for now videos don't show how exactly it will be in normal conditions. As for dwell times, the Paris fully automated system from 1998 has small dwell times. According to wikipedia, SAET allows opening of the doors only if the train is stopped and the position is within the 25 cm margin (up to 1.45 m margin is technically possible, in that case manual emergency doors are used - but it never happens). The trains have to stop to calculate the distance. I personally think it is too long. ua-cam.com/video/gq2X2DfEa3s/v-deo.html
@@datboi04 Oo la! :great_blushing: 1 8 3 5 , huh? Anyhow, I ought to adjust my closed captioning at 0:46 within ua-cam.com/video/n4FiBMq1mvI/v-deo.html , hadn't I, because in the l o n e touristy remark I've been inferring that all of that brand's wax museums must have shut. Much like the crummily unpolished(!!!!) state of the Mallard _Dominion of Canada_ we exhibited here for years on end before its being oceanically shipped back to GB just several years ago, the layers of dust cloaking Mme Tussaud's wares over here did indeed mightily appall me back in the day.
@@paname514 The aspect about the REM that n o b o d y is addressing is its ice and snow mitigation measures. Being lumped on us on- and off-islanders here by crookedly meddlesome corporateers, it yet pains me to admit my bearing little if any faith into the system they're hurriedly building us here. I've just now come from learning that Sydney had to shut its metro line because of their crappy Metropolis fleet damaging the tracks, much like our Azurs did either one or two years ago, which - by the way - still hasn't been either fully rectified or resolved here (earlier this month, the Azur I was riding hit the track bed really fucking hard at rounding the mild, outside bend from Papineau to Frontenac..loads of apprehensive frowning crazily ensued on our unnecessarily crowded train there, believe me you). Miami's Peoplemover's trackbed is grilled, why couldn't the REM's be similarily grilled, i.e., toward where would the (driverless?!!) trackbound snowblowers toss their removals from, e.g., the miles' and miles' worth of elevetad segment? Sapporo and Sofia transparently cover their els, why couldn't we, because surely it would've still been yet cheaper than tunnelling, no? Me, I reckon ice'll be more the REM's nemesis than snow, e.g., with the platform screen doors..we'd better ready ourselves for much retrofitting sometime after its commissioning..overall, it r e e k s of 'craftily' planned obsolescence. What about exceptionally windy days along the even more-pronounced elevation to the new miles-long Champlain bridge replacement, i.e., just how many weeks must it take to upright and haul away blown-over wagons were the operator to choose to not limit the river crossings? :sigh: Moments at handwringing like this make me miss those elegantly stylish CO/CP trains that plied the District Line past our backyard..bring back solid state, pleeeeez.. .. . .
Well done video and for the SelTrac system MTA New York City subway🇺🇸 uses it on 7 Train to Flushing Main Street Station. Another plan we are using is combining SelTrac CBTC Thales 🇫🇷 with 🇩🇪 Siemens Trainguard for Queens Blvd ATO Operation with Culver Line Express Track CBTC testing. Regarding London area railways are there any railway lines that German Siemens CBTC. For NYC MTA subway CBTC Bypass mode is used when leaving CBTC tracks to Non CBTC tracks. For interoperable signals NYC MTA has one Broadway Junction to Canarsie Yard because that's where East New York yard trains get washed.
9:34 Which will be a problem in the event something causes the tracks that can operate manual trains are unavailable, while the CBTC only tracks would be if manual trains could run there. Unless Chiltern installs automation in their trains.
The lines pretty much already operate like that, only the fast lines have “BR style” 4/3 aspect signals as opposed to the standard LU setup of stop and repeater signals.
It is not possible for the Chiltern Trains to use the local tracks because the connection at Harrow On The Hill does not allow this. They are physically separated!
The best way would be for chiltern to install CBTC for their trains, and makes the whole thing less complex. I can’t see how a modern system can communicate safely and reliably with an old system
To be precise: Singapore found out the hard way that interoperating two signalling systems simultaneously was so risky, they'd rather not run the service at all until it is fully CBTC.
Can I just say the system is very very poor it's slow it's dreadful it can't possibly ever be without a driver . The fact that it does not include city stop technology is a real bummer cos right now unless the driver sees something on the track like a vehicle or other large item the train won't stop or even slow down . This is very very serious if they intend to take drivers away . The Gov talks a load of crap and Shapps is clueless about how the technical side works at all . I say to people they should be very concerned that a Gov want to eventually take jobs away from the people to leave the public so very vulnerable on driverless trains idea .
6.55 where is this location? I've been on the Chiltern stretch of the Met a thousand times and I'm just blanking on a place where you can see a canal lock from the window.
RandomNameHere I think it's on the Grand Union Canal near Croxley Green (not a station!), between Moor Park and Rickmansworth stations, at the point where the South Curve to Watford branches off the main line (here: 51.6392245, -0.4483262). There's a lock gate a short distance SW of this point, which is probably where this was filmed. It's a very pleasant walk along that section of canal! Digression: there's also a picturesque view of the boatyard on the GU canal from the Met train between Croxley and Watford stations.
HongKonger here, while I don't travel on the lime that you showed on the video much (East Rail Line), I'm not quite sure that we have automated trains anywhere except on the South Island and Disneyland Resort Lines, both of which have fully automatic operation (FAO).
The former KCR Kowloon Canton Railway trains are automated. Apologies for the awful photo with the blue signal, if China does not invade (because of the human rights issue) I will try return later this year and get better views. I also need some present-day footage for a comparison film with what I filmed in 1988!
So if a fault develops on one line it won't be possible to divert trains with a different system on to an alternative. Seems like flexibility is being lost.
I remember the laughable 5MPH-only driving know-how demonstrated by unskilled operators when Vancouver's driverless rubbish would break down for hours at a time.
Very interesting. Now I knew that the DLR operates fully automated without driver, but now the "conventional" Tublines will change to ATO. I only hope that the system is failsave. Do you happen to know what kind of radiocommunication is used to control the trains. Probably similar as ETCS over GSM-R?
DLR, Jubilee & Northern - TBTC (Transmission Based Train Control), signals from trains to/from a signalling centre. Victoria and Central run off Automatic Train Protection based systems which means the train picks up codes from the track which determine how fast it can go.
Used to be humans driving those more jobs taken by technology slowing chipping away until were all replaced like how the car slowly replaced the horse buggy
There’s still an operator on the train as per regulation and the union has made sure the pay remains. It’s literally less effort for drivers as well as more efficient. Not to mention all the extra jobs made to install and maintain the system. Just more technophobe nonsense from confused boomers.
MOM ITS NOT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE . It depresses me that we waste vital resources on your existence. We went from “THEYRE STEALING OUR JOBS” to “THEIR JOB IS TOO EASY”. Outstanding, I’m honestly amazed.
@@matthewstevens4462 I'm not saying their jobs are too easy nor that they are being taken away, I'm saying that their jobs will become boring and that nobody will want to do them, but go on, continue with taking my words out of context just to make yourself sound smarter. Either way I like your "Nothing could possibly go wrong" mentality, but unfortunately, that mentality never ends well.
15:36 it isn't, the last time a heritage train will run through central London is on the 150th anniversary of the district line but London transport museum will still operate heritage trains on the Buckinghamshire bit of the met until that is updated.
No the feasible way is to layer the signalling systems over each other, like they are doing. It's been done many times, eg the introduction of 2009 Stock on the Victoria Line.
South London Railway Photography I can’t see it working at all, baring in mind the Victoria line ATO was overlaid on another ATO system so it was compatible. CBTC will be overlaid over a conventional signalling system, and what happens if a conventional train spad, now will CBTC handle it or vice versa?
The new trains for the Piccadilly line will be driven to signals also the other 3 lines will not be upgraded and will keep their trains as TFL have no money.
I just saw an article earlier today saying Airbus is working on self-flying planes. Although planes pretty well already fly themselves. It's not quite the same, but I remember in MSFS I could set the autpilot on the 737 to do everything except take off and the last moments of landing. Of course the realism setting was way down and I'm no flightengineer so I'm sure it;s a lot more nuanced. I know pilots have to work out a lot of math and figures and such regarding how much fuel they have, how far they can go, where the point of no return is, weather patterns, managing radio channels and so on. So there's a lot more to flying a plane than just flying a plane. Plus I don's think any automated system would ever replace a human for doing the pre'flight check. Especially the visual inspections.
DLR works well being fully automated, but that’s a smaller line and far less people use it and it was designed for driverless from day one, so tracks and tunnels are wider
You're not going to have an aircraft flying around without a crew*, this sort of work is intended to reduce load on the crew to allow them to fly longer stints by increasing the level of automation. *in the next 30 years.
Problem is with ATO, drivers will quickly become de skilled. I knew when I did work experience on the Jubilee line with an instructor, I drove the train in ATO, And when it came to driving in protected manual, it was quite a lot different
Good luck with that idea. Automation will change absolutely nothing with regard to industrial action as long as staff are required on board to operate the doors and drive under failure conditions.
Most drivers are ASLEF but the signallers, line controllers, station staff and the technicians who maintain the trains, track, signals, etc. are mostly RMT so they could still go on strike. Full automation is unlikely as TfL can't afford it.
Heritage trains on the subway in service? That’s cool, is this a standard practice in London with the heritage trains running year round, or just on special occasions like in New York.
There are drivers in the cab, doing all the checks described and watching the doors, just the trains run automatically. The Victoria line designed and built in the 1960s was also ATO, first full length railway in the world to do so but it has always had drivers. The union-free DLR built in the 1980s has no driver.
@@forza223bowe5 It's just that after 50 year's, more if you count the ATO on the Woodford - Hainalt branch, you would have expected CBTC to be replacing an earlier generation of ATO and not manual driving, although the sub surface lines are rather more complicated than the simple Victoria line.
That is what happened on the Victoria Line, albeit with technology from a different company. C stock trains were built with conversion to automatic in mind (probably same system as the Victoria Line), but it never happened
citytransportinfo The current signalling is a Distance to go radio, and it’s by far the best system and cam handle up to 36 trains an hour. The trains are smooth and fast. The CBTC system, is quite a flimsy and unsightly with the big antenna placed on the tracks and little tags placed on the tracks powered by batteries!
@@szymongorczynski7621 it's a job I've been doing for 15 years and there's a lot more to it than just "door opener". I also work the W&C which is all manual driving and its just as boring as the Central.
@@ASLEFshrugged Yeah, just because trains are being automated doesn't mean you're out of a job. It's just that your day to day tasks are slightly different.
@@forza223bowe5 they will progress stage by stage, line by line and track by track, then the sections of track that isnt shared by trains that aren't cabable of running on ATO and shared by national rail services will be completed, though the tracks that are shall probably remain in current not full ATO settings :)
the trains still have drivers as they must close the doors at stations and tell the computer to start driving the train also, because of the 2020 virus pandemic the project to convert these lines to automated train operations has been delayed and to save money some sections will not have the new train control system installed.
Felice Graziano It’s because of the CBTC system, the train has to be fully stopped until the doors can be opened. The Victoria line the doors can be opened before the train stops
Not until platform edge doors are fitted. And that's a long way off, and unlikely on some lines. Of course the Victoria line has been automated from its opening in 1969, but still has 'Train Operators' (LUL's term for Train Drivers). But the DLR is fully automated, with an on-board member of staff doing customer service stuff unless required to manually drive the train.
Why not keep using legacy human driving on the shared lines sections? Surely the frequency on these parts of the networks will never justify full automation?
Forza223 Bowe: Hmm that’s a fair point, although I haven’t been on the outdoor sections of the Jubilee/Northern for a while (or had a chance to try the new CBTC section yet!) Maybe they want to make sure that the performance is just right before improving it, at least the tunnel sections should be better hopefully...
fetchstix™ The CBTC system doesn’t seem that robust, there is lots of unsightly antennas everywhere and on the tracks there is little RFID rags which are battery powered
Wonder if they will finally be able to tell you which train will leave next from the terminating stations. The information boards and announcements at all ends of the District line are a complete joke. Your only hope is to watch the signals, or look for the driver peeping out from his cab and pressing the magic TRTS button, but I guess those things will be a thing of the past after this upgrade...
"I'm sorry, Thomas", said the fat controller; "It is not economically viable to fit you with CBTC, so we will have to brick you up here where you will remain for eternity". *Roll credits*
@Ady P James said he was disgusted by this and 'ran' away. Gordon found out he was able to file for a redo turning him into a modern powercar.
James was later found dead.
And Percy and Toby were found in there sheds covered in graffiti and Edward is now a museum piece that children climb all over
And then the Conductors jobs (George, Ringo, and Alec) was taken over by automation, rendering them redundant; so Sir Tapham Hatt fired them all as a cost cutting measure. Where George went on to become addicted to crack; Ringo had a not so successful career as a solo artist; and Alec went on to become a famous actor; and Sir Topham Hatt eventually got diabetes, and had to have his leg amputated.
This thread is gold
Technically you could fit Thomas with ATP . ATS and ATO are sadly not compatible.
The upgrades to automation not being feasible for old equipment is a real issue.
For the past several years, on the opening home game of the baseball season for each of our teams, the New York City Subway brought out a retired train from the museum fleet to take fans to the game. (They also do it for postseason games, if the team makes it). They had to end one of those trains, the “Redbirds”/“Train of Many Colors” to the Mets game because the Flushing Line has adopted the same Thales system.
Unless something like a portable system is designed that can be attached to legacy rolling stock only when needed and moved around as needed, we’re both going to loose something special in the future.
Now, that certainly was a major development! Thanks for the video and the detailed explanations! Greetings from Madrid, Spain!
People are still using trains and what's more important people are still paying. No development whatsoever!!
As a non Londoner and rarely venturing to the outskirts of the capital when I do visit, can I just say how great it is to see interoperable working between the National Rail and Underground fleets. I didn't realise how extensive it was.
When the Victoria Line was opened in 1969, delayed by the train guards strike over their jobs becoming redundant on other lines, the Victoria Line trains were fully automated. All the driver did was close the doors and maintain pressure on the DMH, the train drove itself, he was the safety back up in case the system failed. The DMH was his back up if he became incapacitated. They could also be driven manually.
The control system for the Victoria Line was (and maybe still is) coded in Ada. At the time, it was the only programming language that was also certified for the nuclear industry. Noting that the only accidents in that industry have human causes, lḿ happy to ride in a train controlled by Ada!
5:38 never forget
A very interesting and educational video here Simon, I've certainly learnt a few things about CBTC. However, the Battery Locos and D Stock shall still be manually driven, however shall be driven to a 'Target Speed' that the CBTC shall set and change when necessary. When passing a Target Speed of 0, it is also considered a SPAD.
Singaprore's North South and East West MRT Lines had also been successfully converted to Thales too. Although we had a major screw-up in 2017
Unfortunately Thales' CBTC seems to have made the trains' braking curves at platforms less efficient (i.e. slower) - causing journey times to increase
Great video, really interesting and very well explained. So, the oldest metro system in the world is getting ready to face XXI century. The design of both the old and the newest trains is so distinctive and so iconic... I love it!
I hope TfL has learnt the lessons of Singapore when it comes to switching between signalling systems.
Something went wrong with the system. The card reader shows that I ride bus service 532 as I ride bus service 851e.
Hey thats what happened in hk a few months ago lol
The undergound system in UK is far behind countries like japan or China we have the one of the shittest underground system in the world besides the USA
@@crownjohn6666 That's because we've had for longer than anyone else.
Saajidh that’s not something you can proud of like you were the colony for almost the whole world also for the fucking cross rail been build for over damn 10 more years and cost over billions still not finished when Japan and China can build less than two years.There are nothing to be proud of the UK underground system its dirty and outdated tech also they don’t even fucking a aircon on the train where in other Asian They has them all.
A very well made and informative film. I live about 40 miles outside London, and last used the Underground (and visited London) nearly 20 years ago, and I had no idea there was automation to this extent. Credit to the designers of these systems - a pity that there have to be compromises. The old 'Drain' -Waterloo and City Line - might never be the same again!
Nice, great to hear the old vintage tube sounds takes me back, thanks for sharing.:)
Heritage fleet ‘unlikely’ to be upgraded? I’d like to see a computer shovel the coal... 😆
It can still run on CBTC but obviously not automatically
Instead of coal, engines will be converted to burn silicon.
@@forza223bowe5 No chance of that happening I am afraid.
liquid coal
As someone from the city of Vancouver, Canada that has a metro system that has been automated since 1986 (named the Expo Line) I just wanna say congratulations to all the amazing people of the UK for having this piece of innovation in service.
Warm regards from your fellow country in the Commonwealth, Canada
The Expo Line system is driverless (level 4), i.e. a higher level of automation, its more comparable to London's DLR (1987). The reason this system in London is interesting is the interoperability aspect, and for Londoners hopefully it means a better level of service. The Queen sends her regards.
Marvellous video. Thanks for the effort you put into researching and making this.
Let's hope this improves service on the Hammersmith & City line.
I think it will eventually
I hope so too. Absolutely hate it when there is red signal every single minute
Wing Sin Nothing new there. I was on one on Wednesday, and it was a wonderful stop start journey between St Pancras and Baker Street
CS7C3DLazyGuy222 Problem is with the sub surface lines, they share tracks with other lines and there is too many trains
That was nice footage of the heritage fleet. And nice shot of the work train. I drive trains for MTA NYCTA Over here in USA. And I drive those work trains.
Toronto, Canada, is upgrading their subway system to the extent that driverless trains would be possible. However, the union has decreed that that is NOT an option! We will be able to run more trains, closer together, but not driverless!!
London Underground needs to be very careful about this. Singapore had an accident in terms of CBTC switching in 2017 - hope it doesn’t happen again
Nai-Cheng Yang London Underground has already switched both the Northern and Jubilee line, it should be no problem for them
The Underground has been running at least one form of automatic operation for over 50 years, the first being the Woodford-Hainault section of the Central line in the 60s which was converted as a trial in anticipation for the Victoria Line, which was the first fully automatic line in 1968.
What happens if the train fails to read the RFID tag?
Forza223 Bowe They stop
@@agent_605 Interesting I knew about the Victoria line, not the trial run on the Central line before it.
Very interesting video. The 7 Flushing line in New York is also converting to CBTC. I notice that the signals are always constantly flashing on the 7. I think Thales is also part of that project.
It's also on the (L) Canarsie Line.
Battery Locos and D Stock will not be able to run automatically. They will be able to interact with the signalling, but will still be manually operated by the driver. Similar to how the battery locos work on ATP and TBTC and the 60 and 62 stocks work on ATP.
D stock? is there a test train still about?
I think in the intolerable areas, S stock will have to drive manually. I can’t see CBTC communicating with old signals
Forza223 Bowe That happened while Paris Metro Line 1 was automated. Manual and automatic trains where running together
QuarioQuario54321 It won’t work CBTC overlaid over old signals, I remember when the Jubilee line had a the dual fitted area, it totally failed and was scrapped
Where exactly was this dual area?
Excellent video! It almost makes me glad I left LU. I much prefer to actually drive the train than just sitting letting the train do it for you! ATO was one of the reasons I went to the District from the Jubilee because the union reckoned it would be 'decades' before the technology was available for SSL!
Still a fascinating video though. Thanks!
DistrictDriver I did work experience on the Jubilee line before ATO and it was so much better driving the train. Once it went ATO, it became almost like a Toy train it didn’t feel real if you get want I mean
DistrictDriver Move the the Bakerloo then, it’ll seemingly be the last line that will be manually run.
QuarioQuario54321 The Waterloo and city line is still manually driven too
I wonder if they will have manual driving at times once the whole line goes CBTC?
So is the aim to eliminate human drivers ?
I wonder if one day interoperability will be a possibility again. Perhaps in the future it will be decided to "upgrade" all the ATO lines to use the same system.
It would make sense, but contacts are tended to the cheapest bidder
Funny to think there was a time when there was certain rolling stock that could truly use the entire Underground network, as long as there were the third and fourth rails, it would work!
Philadelphia's Market-Frankford line has had CBTC since the 90's and they in fact can safely run trains closer together, and take curves faster.
Most seem pleased with the result.
CBTC works reasonably well but is still not thought to be as capable of coping with wet rail braking as skilled human train drivers.
4:40 I remember when this was the announcement
I like the shots of the intermodal trackage
The London rail system certainly likes to abbreviate practically everything (APE)!
Its run by APEs 🤣
That's actually quite interesting! I had no idea SelTrac still existed until I visited London some six years ago and took the DLR. I wasn't sure it was SelTrac that was operating the trains though and only read up about it afterwards.
However, by now I had again completely forgotten SelTrac was behind the DLR - and many other automated train systems throughout the world as on our local subway system they ceased to use SelTrac some 25 years ago! I still remember the huge stickers on the trains though letting passengers know they are about to board an automated train.
So yeah, here in Berlin, SelTrac is, unfortunately, "forgotten technology". Nice to see it's been successfully implemented in other parts of the world though!
Also the Victoria line was running ATO from when it was built in the late 1960s but it has always had a driver so no need for stickers!
Is the Berlin S bahn ATO ?
@@forza223bowe5 No. We do have an autonomous bus though - which is limited to 5 km/h (?) and only runs on the premises of a hospital.
As far as I know, there are no plans whatsoever to re-introduce SelTrac-operated trains here in Berlin in the foreseeable future. I think they have an automated subway - one line - in Nürnberg in southern Germany though, but that's about it for the entire country.
For more than one reason, Germany is not very much into things like SelTrac. The irony here because SelTrac was originally invented by a German company is not lost on me though.
SelTrac is just a brand name from Thales (former Alcatel). They use it for all their signalling systems.
Excellent informative vid, bring it on, maybe less occasions of the public being unable to get to and from work from strikes
The trains will still need a member of staff onboard!
Jim the DLR has been "on strike" before as up to now the control room has humans in it who are union members!
5:25 I wonder why? Hm.
where you get the hong kong signal? stock photo or video?
is there a video showing that?
I was there but short on time - had to rush to get back to my hotel to get my bag and go to the airport to catch my flight home. This explains the awful picture. I would like to return and if I do then I will aim to get some better images and publish on Wikipedia using a CC0 copyright.
@@CitytransportInfoplus hopefully when you are back to HK, there will be an actually law that's not so loopholey for the china side to use, and also impact foreigners that heavy ( search YT on the so-called "hong kong riot")
what worries me is China sending in the army, perhaps followed by a 1989 Tiananmen Square event where many were killed (exact numbers unknown - could have been thousands)
One slightly picky point, railway signals are yellow, not amber 🤓
Why's that?
Dónal O'Flynn no idea, I just know that railwaymen get really annoyed if you refer to them as amber!
Suspect it comes from the colour of the arm of a semaphore distant signal (which obviously predate colour lights) which were of course yellow.
Depends where you are, in most places around the world the light's colour is Amber but people still call it yellow. In Sydney for example, they are amber lights, but most people call them yellow. (I am pretty sure the correct term is amber though).
In the UK the correct term is yellow.
Also if I am correct When the new Elizabeth Line is fully up and running All underground sections on the Elizabeth Line will operate the same way switching between this new Automated signalling systems and when out of the underground lines on normal tracks will use the normal signalling systems I say this because in the last majour report announced why the Elizabeth Line full opening will be delayed is because not only are some stations not finished but they said several signalling systems were in the process of being combined into one signal system so that more trains can be run especially at peak times when demand is more higher, so they have to do hundreads if not thousands of hours of testing on the new systems to ensure the new system will work properly with several systems running on one signal system it is a requirement to be able to operate safely and get the appropriate operating licences needed.
The signalling system in question that's causing the delays isn't the main system used underground from what I hear, but actually the signalling system down to Heathrow which needs modification.
Mme Tussaud's still operates there (per that PA), because our own folded by the late-80s here?! So, does the driver decide when to shut the doors, or is their operation also on auto-pilot? And in those couple of ATO scenes where the trains uselessly dwell still in the platforms for several seconds before the doors finally open, does that suspenseful dwell also occur outside ATO turf? Plenty of info about all its new assets yet sketchy details on how ATO itself there functions. Interesting that you come out with this, because two years on it dawned on me a few days ago that I've never sussed out whether a driver's manually driven any of our Azurs I've ridden..they're supposed to manually drive a certain amount of hours per week so as to never become rusty at driving if you will..those who come to a smooth stop from 40MPH in 70 metres' distance are, needless to say, t h r i l l i n g !
To talk about the dwell after arriving, I don't know if its the same situation or not but here in the US, WMATA in Washington DC does the same thing. I think its used as a safety precaution to ensure the train is properly berthed and gives the driver a second to check everything but I could be wrong.
Along with Fr'isco and NYC, DC indeed came to mind when noticing those dwells he filmed. Our '70s fleet's programmed to open its doors in the platform once speed brakes to ⅕MPH..the reverse dwell if you will happens in that I won't step onto the moving train (my foot'll hover one or two seconds as though I were a stork), although stepping off one's never a problem..the speed threshold on our Azurs, however, is lower, seemingly at ⅒MPH. However, I'd bet that our forthcoming driverless REM - the complementary suburban metro à la DLR - is quite likely to have such precautionary dwells programmed into its software.
@@trainrover Basically REM will be like the newly opened Sydney métro. Alstom trains and Alstom Urbalis signalisation. This is how it will work.
The videos show there are a few glitches for the all-new system, but overall it works well. After the opening phase glitches and bugs are solved, and the ATO is adapted to local conditions of traffic and train load. So for now videos don't show how exactly it will be in normal conditions.
As for dwell times, the Paris fully automated system from 1998 has small dwell times. According to wikipedia, SAET allows opening of the doors only if the train is stopped and the position is within the 25 cm margin (up to 1.45 m margin is technically possible, in that case manual emergency doors are used - but it never happens). The trains have to stop to calculate the distance. I personally think it is too long. ua-cam.com/video/gq2X2DfEa3s/v-deo.html
@@datboi04 Oo la! :great_blushing: 1 8 3 5 , huh? Anyhow, I ought to adjust my closed captioning at 0:46 within ua-cam.com/video/n4FiBMq1mvI/v-deo.html , hadn't I, because in the l o n e touristy remark I've been inferring that all of that brand's wax museums must have shut. Much like the crummily unpolished(!!!!) state of the Mallard _Dominion of Canada_ we exhibited here for years on end before its being oceanically shipped back to GB just several years ago, the layers of dust cloaking Mme Tussaud's wares over here did indeed mightily appall me back in the day.
@@paname514 The aspect about the REM that n o b o d y is addressing is its ice and snow mitigation measures. Being lumped on us on- and off-islanders here by crookedly meddlesome corporateers, it yet pains me to admit my bearing little if any faith into the system they're hurriedly building us here. I've just now come from learning that Sydney had to shut its metro line because of their crappy Metropolis fleet damaging the tracks, much like our Azurs did either one or two years ago, which - by the way - still hasn't been either fully rectified or resolved here (earlier this month, the Azur I was riding hit the track bed really fucking hard at rounding the mild, outside bend from Papineau to Frontenac..loads of apprehensive frowning crazily ensued on our unnecessarily crowded train there, believe me you). Miami's Peoplemover's trackbed is grilled, why couldn't the REM's be similarily grilled, i.e., toward where would the (driverless?!!) trackbound snowblowers toss their removals from, e.g., the miles' and miles' worth of elevetad segment? Sapporo and Sofia transparently cover their els, why couldn't we, because surely it would've still been yet cheaper than tunnelling, no? Me, I reckon ice'll be more the REM's nemesis than snow, e.g., with the platform screen doors..we'd better ready ourselves for much retrofitting sometime after its commissioning..overall, it r e e k s of 'craftily' planned obsolescence. What about exceptionally windy days along the even more-pronounced elevation to the new miles-long Champlain bridge replacement, i.e., just how many weeks must it take to upright and haul away blown-over wagons were the operator to choose to not limit the river crossings?
:sigh: Moments at handwringing like this make me miss those elegantly stylish CO/CP trains that plied the District Line past our backyard..bring back solid state, pleeeeez.. .. . .
Fantastic video as always, thank you 👍
Is there a reason TfL cannot put CBTC equipment on the 378 and 710s?
Yes, many reasons, all related to owns the tracks, who owns the trains and the need for goods trains to be able to travel along the same tracks.
@@CitytransportInfoplus Who owns their national rail trains, a lessor, TfL, or someone entirely?
Well done video and for the SelTrac system MTA New York City subway🇺🇸 uses it on 7 Train to Flushing Main Street Station. Another plan we are using is combining SelTrac CBTC Thales 🇫🇷 with 🇩🇪 Siemens Trainguard for Queens Blvd ATO Operation with Culver Line Express Track CBTC testing.
Regarding London area railways are there any railway lines that German Siemens CBTC.
For NYC MTA subway CBTC Bypass mode is used when leaving CBTC tracks to Non CBTC tracks. For interoperable signals NYC MTA has one Broadway Junction to Canarsie Yard because that's where East New York yard trains get washed.
EpicThe112 why are the signals on the 7 constantly flashing?
9:34 Which will be a problem in the event something causes the tracks that can operate manual trains are unavailable, while the CBTC only tracks would be if manual trains could run there. Unless Chiltern installs automation in their trains.
A Chiltern unit on the locals between Harrow and Moor Park would be a stupid thing to do as Chiltern units don’t go to Baker Street!
The lines pretty much already operate like that, only the fast lines have “BR style” 4/3 aspect signals as opposed to the standard LU setup of stop and repeater signals.
It is not possible for the Chiltern Trains to use the local tracks because the connection at Harrow On The Hill does not allow this. They are physically separated!
The best way would be for chiltern to install CBTC for their trains, and makes the whole thing less complex. I can’t see how a modern system can communicate safely and reliably with an old system
Forza223 Bowe That has happened smoothly with Paris Metro Line 1
To be precise: Singapore found out the hard way that interoperating two signalling systems simultaneously was so risky, they'd rather not run the service at all until it is fully CBTC.
It will never work, the old signals date back to then 1920s or so. How is a computer going to communicate with that, it’s a disaster waiting to happen
Can I just say the system is very very poor it's slow it's dreadful it can't possibly ever be without a driver .
The fact that it does not include city stop technology is a real bummer cos right now unless the driver sees something on the track like a vehicle or other large item the train won't stop or even slow down .
This is very very serious if they intend to take drivers away .
The Gov talks a load of crap and Shapps is clueless about how the technical side works at all .
I say to people they should be very concerned that a Gov want to eventually take jobs away from the people to leave the public so very vulnerable on driverless trains idea .
Vic line also has the white lights. Recessed into the head wall.
...and some Northern line stations (I'm not sure about Jubilee line)
At 0.38 you refer to 'Hammersmith (Met) stations'. What is this? I know that Hammersmith normally has P/D/C and H&C. What is the reference to Met?
The Hammersmith & City Line was originally treated on the Tube map as part of the Metropolitan Line up until 1990.
They don’t seem to pull as fast off the mark, compared to the 09 stock. I am assuming the power is still restricted at present ?
C14z in the 09 stock, they almost certainly pull off and motor faster. More people stand on the 09 stocks too.
Very interesting. Thank you! 👍
6.55 where is this location? I've been on the Chiltern stretch of the Met a thousand times and I'm just blanking on a place where you can see a canal lock from the window.
RandomNameHere I think it's on the Grand Union Canal near Croxley Green (not a station!), between Moor Park and Rickmansworth stations, at the point where the South Curve to Watford branches off the main line (here: 51.6392245, -0.4483262). There's a lock gate a short distance SW of this point, which is probably where this was filmed. It's a very pleasant walk along that section of canal!
Digression: there's also a picturesque view of the boatyard on the GU canal from the Met train between Croxley and Watford stations.
@@davidlovell4589 ta. I'll keep my eyes peeled next time I head out that way.
On the DLR, the ready to depart indicator is a chime which you can hear
also a light that illuminates inside the train!
Great video. ☺️
HongKonger here, while I don't travel on the lime that you showed on the video much (East Rail Line), I'm not quite sure that we have automated trains anywhere except on the South Island and Disneyland Resort Lines, both of which have fully automatic operation (FAO).
The former KCR Kowloon Canton Railway trains are automated.
Apologies for the awful photo with the blue signal, if China does not invade (because of the human rights issue) I will try return later this year and get better views. I also need some present-day footage for a comparison film with what I filmed in 1988!
Nice Class 20 at 9:13 Used to see many of those "double-heading" passenger and freight in Norfolk back in the day.
Given that this programme is several years behind schedule, what's the bet on when it will actually be finished? Before 2020? 2030?
Extremely interesting video of the automation project! ;-)
So if a fault develops on one line it won't be possible to divert trains with a different system on to an alternative. Seems like flexibility is being lost.
I remember the laughable 5MPH-only driving know-how demonstrated by unskilled operators when Vancouver's driverless rubbish would break down for hours at a time.
Thank you - a very interesting film.
Very interesting. Now I knew that the DLR operates fully automated without driver, but now the "conventional" Tublines will change to ATO. I only hope that the system is failsave. Do you happen to know what kind of radiocommunication is used to control the trains. Probably similar as ETCS over GSM-R?
DLR, Jubilee & Northern - TBTC (Transmission Based Train Control), signals from trains to/from a signalling centre.
Victoria and Central run off Automatic Train Protection based systems which means the train picks up codes from the track which determine how fast it can go.
Used to be humans driving those more jobs taken by technology slowing chipping away until were all replaced like how the car slowly replaced the horse buggy
Its a good job too
There’s still an operator on the train as per regulation and the union has made sure the pay remains. It’s literally less effort for drivers as well as more efficient. Not to mention all the extra jobs made to install and maintain the system.
Just more technophobe nonsense from confused boomers.
@Matthew Stevens yea but that just makes their jobs more boring, how would you like to be sat around all day with nothing to do?
MOM ITS NOT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE . It depresses me that we waste vital resources on your existence. We went from “THEYRE STEALING OUR JOBS” to “THEIR JOB IS TOO EASY”.
Outstanding, I’m honestly amazed.
@@matthewstevens4462 I'm not saying their jobs are too easy nor that they are being taken away, I'm saying that their jobs will become boring and that nobody will want to do them, but go on, continue with taking my words out of context just to make yourself sound smarter. Either way I like your "Nothing could possibly go wrong" mentality, but unfortunately, that mentality never ends well.
If the system works as planned, there soon won't be a reason anymore to split the Circle Line.
Can you explain this in more detail? What does splitting the circle line mean?
In former times, the Circle Line was an infinite loop.
So, setting a terminal station means splitting the line.
I'm not sure if you know but the 92 Stocks from the central line are going to sound just like these trains eventually
yes, when they get new motors and a new AC (alternating current) traction package
yes, when they get new motors and a new AC (alternating current) traction package
yes, when they get new motors and a new AC (alternating current) traction package
For some reason this reply came out 3 times lol
15:36 it isn't, the last time a heritage train will run through central London is on the 150th anniversary of the district line but London transport museum will still operate heritage trains on the Buckinghamshire bit of the met until that is updated.
Excellent. Thank you
Will the robot get paid £1000 a week as the TFL drivers?
The drivers aren't being replaced, they are still there to monitor the system
Singapore also now currently using CBTC as well.
Though unlike London Singapore has retained its line-side signals - at dead-ends, switches and underground platforms
have you made a video on TBTC
What Happen to Met Between Harrow on the Hill and Amersham Stations , Will they got Full system or Be Hybrid system
Can’t see it working. How will a state of the art system, Link to an old signals? Only feasible way is to convert the chiltern trains to CBTC
No the feasible way is to layer the signalling systems over each other, like they are doing. It's been done many times, eg the introduction of 2009 Stock on the Victoria Line.
@@forza223bowe5 thanks
@@SouthLondonRailwayPhotography Thanks
South London Railway Photography I can’t see it working at all, baring in mind the Victoria line ATO was overlaid on another ATO system so it was compatible. CBTC will be overlaid over a conventional signalling system, and what happens if a conventional train spad, now will CBTC handle it or vice versa?
8:38
Fun fact: the train type on screen is based on the 2nd Gen. EMU (mark 3 coach based), Retirement due starting next year.
I still love London
Y'all telling me automated trains aren't normal around the world yet?
would think as the Piccadilly line is upgraded the interoperability will improve
Two signalling systems is a disaster for safety, and reliability.
couteuxs Piccadilly appears to be next, starting when NTfL starts service.
Very interesting and informative
Very informative thanks for sharing
Why do the not use the regenerative braking on the automatic trains?
they do sometimes, but not always
Very informative. Thanks!
The new trains for the Piccadilly line will be driven to signals also the other 3 lines will not be upgraded and will keep their trains as TFL have no money.
6:50 THAT'S LITERALLY THE ROAD I TAKE TO SCHOOL. That's a bridge close to me.
I just saw an article earlier today saying Airbus is working on self-flying planes. Although planes pretty well already fly themselves. It's not quite the same, but I remember in MSFS I could set the autpilot on the 737 to do everything except take off and the last moments of landing. Of course the realism setting was way down and I'm no flightengineer so I'm sure it;s a lot more nuanced. I know pilots have to work out a lot of math and figures and such regarding how much fuel they have, how far they can go, where the point of no return is, weather patterns, managing radio channels and so on. So there's a lot more to flying a plane than just flying a plane. Plus I don's think any automated system would ever replace a human for doing the pre'flight check. Especially the visual inspections.
Boeing have made huge strides in creating self-crashing planes.
DLR works well being fully automated, but that’s a smaller line and far less people use it and it was designed for driverless from day one, so tracks and tunnels are wider
You're not going to have an aircraft flying around without a crew*, this sort of work is intended to reduce load on the crew to allow them to fly longer stints by increasing the level of automation.
*in the next 30 years.
Problem is with ATO, drivers will quickly become de skilled. I knew when I did work experience on the Jubilee line with an instructor, I drove the train in ATO, And when it came to driving in protected manual, it was quite a lot different
Can't wait for the day we go full auto, finally an end to RMT's strikes
😂😂😂
Good luck with that idea.
Automation will change absolutely nothing with regard to industrial action as long as staff are required on board to operate the doors and drive under failure conditions.
Most drivers are ASLEF but the signallers, line controllers, station staff and the technicians who maintain the trains, track, signals, etc. are mostly RMT so they could still go on strike.
Full automation is unlikely as TfL can't afford it.
ASLEF shrugged Full automation will won’t happen, not saying never, but certainly not for many years yet.
9:00 The Croxley Rail Link was cancelled by Sadiq Khan in 2016.
Excelent video!
So sometimes on the train, their is no driver sitting in the cab
On these trains there will always be a driver in the cab
Very many questions now answered.
Heritage trains on the subway in service? That’s cool, is this a standard practice in London with the heritage trains running year round, or just on special occasions like in New York.
Only really done on special occasions, the last one was for the 150th anniversary of the opening of the District Line
I tried looking for the no drivers, but you kept cutting the clips short.
There are drivers in the cab, doing all the checks described and watching the doors, just the trains run automatically. The Victoria line designed and built in the 1960s was also ATO, first full length railway in the world to do so but it has always had drivers. The union-free DLR built in the 1980s has no driver.
Considering the Victoria line has had ATO for 50 years, progress with ATO seems to have moved at the pace of a snail.
In what way? I thought CBTC is state of the art compared to the Original ATO
@@forza223bowe5 It's just that after 50 year's, more if you count the ATO on the Woodford - Hainalt branch, you would have expected CBTC to be replacing an earlier generation of ATO and not manual driving, although the sub surface lines are rather more complicated than the simple Victoria line.
L Fewell Manual driving would be rarely done, mostly would be ATO
That is what happened on the Victoria Line, albeit with technology from a different company. C stock trains were built with conversion to automatic in mind (probably same system as the Victoria Line), but it never happened
citytransportinfo The current signalling is a Distance to go radio, and it’s by far the best system and cam handle up to 36 trains an hour. The trains are smooth and fast. The CBTC system, is quite a flimsy and unsightly with the big antenna placed on the tracks and little tags placed on the tracks powered by batteries!
i remember why i dont like s stock trains now just as i was getting to know them
why not?
I know that the TTC and MTA is going through the same thing.
Vkmshckchoxgvh
4:20 The most powerful force in the universe
nutmeg
I gotcha
How sad it is to see the job of train driver begin to disappear.
They're still seated in the cabs. Their job is to operate the doors as need be and also operate the trains should manual operations be needed.
The Central Line has had ATO for 20 years and currently there are around 300 drivers working on the Central Line.
Exactly, they're not drivers they're door openers. Can't think of a more boring job.
@@szymongorczynski7621 it's a job I've been doing for 15 years and there's a lot more to it than just "door opener". I also work the W&C which is all manual driving and its just as boring as the Central.
@@ASLEFshrugged Yeah, just because trains are being automated doesn't mean you're out of a job. It's just that your day to day tasks are slightly different.
Shame that the speeds are rather slow, despite ATO. The trains don’t seem that fast off the mark
As I have thought and expected, the S7/S8 stock's true performance and acceleration capabilities has been revealed :)
Didn’t seem all that fast off the mark, are they on full power ?
@@forza223bowe5, not just yet, there getting there :D
Damien Manu How long ?
@@forza223bowe5 they will progress stage by stage, line by line and track by track, then the sections of track that isnt shared by trains that aren't cabable of running on ATO and shared by national rail services will be completed, though the tracks that are shall probably remain in current not full ATO settings :)
Damien Manu Do you know what percentage the trains are capped at ? I know the Jubilee line was 70% power then later 100%
Where do all the drivers work now? What happened to them since the trains are now automatic? Is this progress?
the trains still have drivers as they must close the doors at stations and tell the computer to start driving the train
also, because of the 2020 virus pandemic the project to convert these lines to automated train operations has been delayed and to save money some sections will not have the new train control system installed.
9:00 The Croxley Rail Link was cancelled in 2016.
It might yet happen, albeit in a different form than originally proposed.
No, it’s been cancelled for good.
All door opening at stations is also controlled by the driver
That's why it seems so slow. Is it the Victoria line that has automatic door opening the very second the train stops?
Felice Graziano It’s because of the CBTC system, the train has to be fully stopped until the doors can be opened. The Victoria line the doors can be opened before the train stops
I can see where this is headed. Eventually, motormen will be looking for a new career, no?
Not until platform edge doors are fitted. And that's a long way off, and unlikely on some lines. Of course the Victoria line has been automated from its opening in 1969, but still has 'Train Operators' (LUL's term for Train Drivers). But the DLR is fully automated, with an on-board member of staff doing customer service stuff unless required to manually drive the train.
I think eventually these trains might be fully automated
Forza223 Bowe no chance at all. Too expensive
Rod Fromleftfield All humans
M433 DH6 At one point well sure
In Malaysia we have all automatic trains from the start! LRT and MRT .
Well duh, your system is no where near as old as London's...........
Why not keep using legacy human driving on the shared lines sections? Surely the frequency on these parts of the networks will never justify full automation?
I agree, I doubt CBTC will be compatible with old outdated signalling
So is there actually a driver or is it being done like DLR
Drivers are still very much required in cabs.
This is GoA2 with a driver in the cab. The DLR is GoA3, the train drives itself but still needs a member of staff somewhere on board.
ASLEF shrugged what’s Goa?
@@andypardy3212 GoA = Grade of Automation. From GoA0 to GoA4.
I love trains and tubes
Is it me, or is the S stock still quite sluggish on ATO? I would have thought they would have turned the power up
Apparently it’s because SelTrac (both the inductive loop cable and radio versions) are bad with dealing with positioning after wheels slip/slide...
fetchstix™ The Jubilee and Northern line use the same system, and their ATO goes a lot faster
Forza223 Bowe: Hmm that’s a fair point, although I haven’t been on the outdoor sections of the Jubilee/Northern for a while (or had a chance to try the new CBTC section yet!) Maybe they want to make sure that the performance is just right before improving it, at least the tunnel sections should be better hopefully...
fetchstix™ The CBTC system doesn’t seem that robust, there is lots of unsightly antennas everywhere and on the tracks there is little RFID rags which are battery powered
SelTrac CBTC?
Wonder if they will finally be able to tell you which train will leave next from the terminating stations. The information boards and announcements at all ends of the District line are a complete joke. Your only hope is to watch the signals, or look for the driver peeping out from his cab and pressing the magic TRTS button, but I guess those things will be a thing of the past after this upgrade...
Is this the same signalling system that was installed in Hong Kong that derail the train.
Are you sure? Both systems are installed by Thales.
I’ve already been on an automated train. The SkyTrain in Vancouver!