Nevers and alwayses are automatic red flags in any creative endeavor--unless the endeavor is, for example, using turpentine to clean your art brushes. Might want to *always* keep that space ventilated...
I hate and ignore any advice that is phrased as a black and white rule like that. It immediately strikes me as too extreme and therefore lazy. Often there’s more nuance behind those all-or-nothing rules, but phrasing it so strictly really turns me off.
Chuck Palahuniuk (Fight Club) said in his writing guide to never write a dream. But he wasnt the first I heard. It's pretty entrenched in writing suggestions. I'm glad people have more flexible thinking about it now because dreams have changed my life. Some just stick with you and it takes years to understand them. And then years later the same dream takes on new meanings. Novels should be able to hold a dream or two, as long as it's done well.
For the most part I think dream sequences work best when used to add elements that otherwise can' t be part of the story, like speaking with dead people, weird symbolisms or characters showing intimate ideas against their will. The danger is you have to remember that while useful just like in our world dreams aren't real and the story should expend most of its time in its own reality
When I wrote a one shot called Lingering Demons, I literally started with a fakeout dream sequence. It was an incredibly gruesome and surreal one that had no effect on the real world. That was intentional. Why would I do such a thing you ask? Well, the one-shot was about PTSD. More concretely, a psychiatrically realistic portrayal of C-PTSD. In the fic, this character, Takina, suffers from PTSD, and the traumatic event is, basically, the events of the show, she goes through the absolute ringer and the plot of the fic is what happens when you put a teenager through an entire year of life changing stress, fear and danger. When I started writing this fic, I knew I was getting into a delicate and VERY misrepresented subject. I didn't want to go like "oh no Takina has PTSD she's… nervous all the time and… has FLASHBACKS and… and… is scared of loud noises!". So, I went and researched the subject, researched it like I researched nothing else before, I wanted to be able to fucking diagnose a patient with PTSD by the time I was done. And it paid off, I learned a lot about what PTSD was in practice. It's a debilitating disorder that's basically what happens when the body becomes locked into its fight or flight response, it's this eternal fight against a *presence* that isn't actually there. I wrote about outbursts, about the all famous triggers. Someone with PTSD can be afraid of loud noises and bangs even if the traumatic event has nothing to do with things that bang like shootouts or war, simply because loud bangs represent powerful things and if a powerful thing is around you better believe they're going to be ready for it, because they always are. I talked about *EMOTIONAL* flashbacks, where nothing is actually happening but out of the blue to begin to FEEL like you felt back in the traumatic experience, even while fully aware of your visual surroundings. I talked about the effects it has on the patient's caretakers, because of course you're not in this alone, like it is exhausting for you it is exhausting for everybody else around you, the people that love you, your family, the people that are dealing with you 24/7, to them, they see you shredding yourself apart thread by thread, it's exhausting and a huge responsibility and sometimes mistakes can be made. And, of course, nightmares. Recurrent nightmares where you're back there, where your fears come to life or simply bad things are the way out brains has to remind us "you're in danger, you can't rest until we get out of it". Nightmares are some of the most common ways PTSD manifests for a patient, and so I knew I had to include at least one dream sequence. And to really make sure the reader got the sheer gruesomeness of it, I put it at the very beginning, where they're still not fully in it, so that they feel the impact the most and see what a patient of C-PTSD goes through almost every night. I think this is ok because then I'm making dreams a literal part of the plot. The plot is what is PTSD like, this is what PTSD is like, dreams are an important part of it and I wanted to order everything in such a way that it unveiled part by part everything that PTSD was about, almost educationally but still a fic. If you want to read it, I would be honored t see you here archiveofourown.org/works/42844866 Y si sos un hispano caminando entre angloparlantes, tranqui, también he tengo cubierto ;) archiveofourown.org/works/42991974
This is what i like about this channel and why it's better than most others. Yeah, we've all heard "don't write dream sequences" but we all know that's not a hard and fast rule. There's nuance and exceptions to everything
John, I really appreciate your content because it is extremely helpful, and it inspired a lot of ideas in my writing. In fact, I am hopeful that I will release a book of mine next year!
This is great! I’m currently working on a series of dreams to help reveal a traumatic backstory and build that character’s internal conflict related to that trauma as well as to current events. It’s fun, and this advice was helpful. I definitely think my dream sequences are doing what I want them to do, are not boring, and are important to the story. Also, John, you’re like, really nice. ☺️ The little “congratulations on the Nobel Prize” comment in this video, and just your general consistently optimistic and encouraging tone are very much appreciated.
Real life example: Every few years I had these intense dreams about a past real-life situation. In the dream, it was about if only I had the guts to do something, things would have turned out better. I'd wake up really disturbed, because it was about a real-life situation. I had to remind myself no, I was right to walk away, and I did choose to walk away, and it's for the best. I realized that deep down, I didn't really believe that and needed to consciously think it through. I've stopped having those dreams. Might or might not work as fiction.
Thank you for that excellent video. I had written a number or dream sequences in my story, but in doing so I had concerns that all dream sequences were bad because I had read so much advice against writing dream sequences. Your video affirmed that there is a right way to do dream sequences, and I was doing them the right way.
Very timely, I'm fresh off of the dream train myself. I want to use a handful of short nightmare sequences to convey the main couple's deeper fears and traumas, leave them shaken, have them comfort each other and try to figure out how to cope and recover. I also want to use a dream a near the end in a similar vein to the island of lotus-eaters from The Odyssey, where the main character is effectively trapped in paradise and has to escape it in order to face reality with their partner and deal with a bittersweet ending. Gonna try hard to make this effective and interesting!
In my manuscript, the protagonist sometimes has dreams from someone else's life. To drive home how off-kilter these are, the writing shifts from third person limited past tense to first person present tense when it happens. Not sure if this is the right thing to do, but I find it effective.
During my querying process over the last five months, the number one thing any agent requested not to read was dream sequences. Dreams are quite important to me personally and in my story. So at least they saved me the trouble of querying the wrong agent, but it was kinda dejecting to keep crossing off the already small list I had of potential agents.
A couple of books that really helped me with dream sequences are WHEN BRAINS DREAM by Antonio Zadara & Robert Stickgold; and THE INTERPRETATION OF DREAMS by Freud. They're more psychologically technical, but it was helpful information for understanding how dreams function in both the physical and narratological sense.
Dream sequences can be really bad or confusing, and starting (prologue or first chapter) with one really throws readers of when they are new to your story. I personally don't care for them that much, especially if they are very long, and the author strings you along without any hint that it's a dream. I like how you provide many examples, and qualify 'rules' with practical advice on how they would work in different situations.
I was literally trying to write a dream sequence today! This is going to help me a lot. I made mine a fear dream where my protagonist sees an apparition in the halls of the university he works at. Except the geometry of the halls are distorted into non-Euclidean simulacra. He can manipulate time in the real world. The dream is to demonstrate that the hero is worried about losing control of his ability and destroying everything. The dream ends when the apparition begins consuming the protagonist. Hopefully, once mastered, it’s true meaning will be open to many different, yet still valid interpretations.
That last line from Henry, even in a dream, is so essentially Henry. Just the type of conversation Richard would have with Henry, if the latter were still alive.
I too have a dream that starts like an exaggerated memory of a real traumatic event and slowly turns into a nightmare that represents my protagonists fears. I was wondering whether that was good use of a dream. I'm still not sure. I guess it's also a question of execution.
I love how Milan Kundera used dreams in his The Unbearable Lightness of Being. They were packed with symbols that represented the mental states of his characters. ...and in Bulgakov's the master and margarita, when nikanor ivanovich had comical nightmare that served as a satire of soviet bureaucracy.
Love your videos. But one day I hope you pronounce the tilde in Bolaño's name. As a Colombian, after a few of your videos, I thought: maybe Roberto does pronounce it the way you say it - Chile does like to do things differently. I've been wrong about many a pronunciation (looking at you, French). But I've watched enough of his Spanish interviews and I'm pretty sure he pronounces his name with the tilde. Also love that scene in The Secret History.
Currently got two late book dream sequences planned in my novel, and both fit broadly within the "Dreams as Supernatural Communication" type. I've drafted the first, but wasn't happy with it. After listening to this, I've realised it was too straightforwards and direct... going to throw in some of the protags fears and worries, then have the 'mission from god' point come up!
I'm a fan of Carl Jung and whenever I talk about dream interpretation to my friends, I tell them dreams are to be interpreted like great literature: exactly how Dostoevsky used Raskolnikov's dream so he would realize in real life that he didn't want to kill that lady. How meta and satisfying!
My characters either dream about past trauma or their desires. Both of them are really awful, really, because the first is re-living the trauma, and the second is something they know is impossible. Honestly, I’m not sure which is worse. So they don’t either.
Please, please make a vid on mastering first person pov! Recently I have started a new novel which is my second so far and lets just say i'm struggling to grasp the concept coming from writing the third person pov.
I love good dream sequences and I hope I've established that when I do write them. I try to keep the short, a page or less, and don't add them unless I feel they add something to the character or story.
Ahem! Instead of enjoying the video I... Well, thanx a million, and here are my notes: Five Mistakes 1 The Fake Out Avoid starting or ending stories with “it was just a dream” moments, as they make readers feel deceived by offering false stakes. 2 The Forever Dream Keep dream sequences short to maintain interest. Long dreams can lose readers since they lack real consequences. 3 The Normalizing Trap Dreams should be illogical and surreal, not follow normal story logic. Embrace their inherent strangeness. 4 The Symbol Trap Avoid using dreams as too-direct allegories. They should reflect unsettling, ambiguous meanings rather than clear-cut symbolism. 5 The Sloppy Substitute If a scene is impactful enough as a dream, consider making it real to engage readers more deeply. Using Dreams 1 Dreams as Foreshadowing Use dreams to hint at future events, adding suspense and anticipation to the narrative. 2 Dreams as Epiphanies Facilitate character realizations and plot advancement with dream insights, as seen in "The Sopranos." 3 Dreams as Comedy Routines Incorporate dreams for humor, providing light-hearted interludes without impacting the plot. 4 Dreams as Supernatural Communication Leverage dreams for divine or mystical messages, adding depth to supernatural or sci-fi narratives. 5 Dreams as Alternative Existence Explore parallel realities or significant dream worlds, as in "Inception," where actions in dreams affect reality. 6 Dreams as Symbols Effectively use dreams to illustrate internal conflicts or broader themes without being too on-the-nose, as in "Crime and Punishment." 7 Dreams as Desires Reveal characters' deepest wishes through dreams, moving the story by highlighting essential motivations. 8 Dreams as the Impossible Allow dreams to fulfill narrative needs unmet by reality, giving emotional resolutions or closures. 9 Dreams as Fears Use nightmares to reflect characters’ fears, motivating actions or changes pivotal to the story, as in "The Vegetarian."
Hello, thank you so much for the information. What do you think of the dream sequences in Bojack Horseman?, especially "The View from Halfway Down" 6x15. My dream sequence is kind of a deep realistic conversation with a death character that brings closure or resolution to my main character. It would be a short chapter almost at the end. What could an editor think of it?.
One point I have to disagree with is your assertion that 50% of Lovecraft's "The Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath" takes place in the dream world. It's about 99%. He descends the seventy steps into the cavern of flame very early in chapter 1, and doesn't escape the dreamlands until the last paragraph in the book. I should also note that a character who dies in the dreamlands really dies in the waking world, in Lovecraft's mythos. Of course, dreams were an important part of even his stories that had nothing to do with the dreamlands... "When, after infinities of chaos, the first men came, the Great Old Ones spoke to the sensitive among them by moulding their dreams; for only thus could Their language reach the fleshy minds of mammals."
I did include a dream in my book Hide and Seek. My protagonist in the dream was on trial in front of a vast crowd and a judge and she was pronounced guilty. The whole crowd chants "Guilty, guilty! guilty! "and then she woke up. I put his in to show her unconscious guilt. It wasn't very long but it gave an insight into her soul and her bullying that she had buried deep in her subconscious. In the dream, her "victims" appear and are named. I would only use dreams to show something about the character that wouldn't be so effective in another context. Some editors say "Never include a dream" so it's refreshing that you give a context in which dreams are permissible and advice on how to use dreams to advantage in writing. So, thanks and I am glad that there is a context in which dreams can be an integral part of a story.
I get angry with the fact that dreams pop up in almost every book I’ve ever read (or it at least feels that way). I wish writers would leave dreams out of all of their books.
They're definitely overused. I've never used a dream sequence in a story. The closest thing was that the character was forced into a rehab VR program (which he's in at thf start of the story, you realize later] that seemed so real even at the end he thought he was free to complete his mission.
I’m not against them per se but even the best writers seem to force themselves to slip a dream in whether necessary or not. I’ve been known to skip dream sections even in my favorite writers’ books.
The rule I always heard was NEVER write about a dream. That felt wrong because dreams seem important sometimes. Thanks for this.
yes! i've heard the same advice. It never sat well
advices starting with "never" are never good:>
Nevers and alwayses are automatic red flags in any creative endeavor--unless the endeavor is, for example, using turpentine to clean your art brushes. Might want to *always* keep that space ventilated...
I hate and ignore any advice that is phrased as a black and white rule like that. It immediately strikes me as too extreme and therefore lazy. Often there’s more nuance behind those all-or-nothing rules, but phrasing it so strictly really turns me off.
Chuck Palahuniuk (Fight Club) said in his writing guide to never write a dream. But he wasnt the first I heard. It's pretty entrenched in writing suggestions. I'm glad people have more flexible thinking about it now because dreams have changed my life. Some just stick with you and it takes years to understand them. And then years later the same dream takes on new meanings. Novels should be able to hold a dream or two, as long as it's done well.
For the most part I think dream sequences work best when used to add elements that otherwise can' t be part of the story, like speaking with dead people, weird symbolisms or characters showing intimate ideas against their will. The danger is you have to remember that while useful just like in our world dreams aren't real and the story should expend most of its time in its own reality
Bookfox: One thing you shouldn't write is forever dream
Inception: And I took that personally
When I wrote a one shot called Lingering Demons, I literally started with a fakeout dream sequence. It was an incredibly gruesome and surreal one that had no effect on the real world. That was intentional. Why would I do such a thing you ask? Well, the one-shot was about PTSD. More concretely, a psychiatrically realistic portrayal of C-PTSD. In the fic, this character, Takina, suffers from PTSD, and the traumatic event is, basically, the events of the show, she goes through the absolute ringer and the plot of the fic is what happens when you put a teenager through an entire year of life changing stress, fear and danger.
When I started writing this fic, I knew I was getting into a delicate and VERY misrepresented subject. I didn't want to go like "oh no Takina has PTSD she's… nervous all the time and… has FLASHBACKS and… and… is scared of loud noises!". So, I went and researched the subject, researched it like I researched nothing else before, I wanted to be able to fucking diagnose a patient with PTSD by the time I was done. And it paid off, I learned a lot about what PTSD was in practice. It's a debilitating disorder that's basically what happens when the body becomes locked into its fight or flight response, it's this eternal fight against a *presence* that isn't actually there. I wrote about outbursts, about the all famous triggers. Someone with PTSD can be afraid of loud noises and bangs even if the traumatic event has nothing to do with things that bang like shootouts or war, simply because loud bangs represent powerful things and if a powerful thing is around you better believe they're going to be ready for it, because they always are. I talked about *EMOTIONAL* flashbacks, where nothing is actually happening but out of the blue to begin to FEEL like you felt back in the traumatic experience, even while fully aware of your visual surroundings. I talked about the effects it has on the patient's caretakers, because of course you're not in this alone, like it is exhausting for you it is exhausting for everybody else around you, the people that love you, your family, the people that are dealing with you 24/7, to them, they see you shredding yourself apart thread by thread, it's exhausting and a huge responsibility and sometimes mistakes can be made. And, of course, nightmares. Recurrent nightmares where you're back there, where your fears come to life or simply bad things are the way out brains has to remind us "you're in danger, you can't rest until we get out of it". Nightmares are some of the most common ways PTSD manifests for a patient, and so I knew I had to include at least one dream sequence. And to really make sure the reader got the sheer gruesomeness of it, I put it at the very beginning, where they're still not fully in it, so that they feel the impact the most and see what a patient of C-PTSD goes through almost every night.
I think this is ok because then I'm making dreams a literal part of the plot. The plot is what is PTSD like, this is what PTSD is like, dreams are an important part of it and I wanted to order everything in such a way that it unveiled part by part everything that PTSD was about, almost educationally but still a fic.
If you want to read it, I would be honored t see you here archiveofourown.org/works/42844866
Y si sos un hispano caminando entre angloparlantes, tranqui, también he tengo cubierto ;) archiveofourown.org/works/42991974
This is what i like about this channel and why it's better than most others. Yeah, we've all heard "don't write dream sequences" but we all know that's not a hard and fast rule. There's nuance and exceptions to everything
John, I really appreciate your content because it is extremely helpful, and it inspired a lot of ideas in my writing. In fact, I am hopeful that I will release a book of mine next year!
Great to hear! Glad I could help.
This is great! I’m currently working on a series of dreams to help reveal a traumatic backstory and build that character’s internal conflict related to that trauma as well as to current events. It’s fun, and this advice was helpful. I definitely think my dream sequences are doing what I want them to do, are not boring, and are important to the story.
Also, John, you’re like, really nice. ☺️ The little “congratulations on the Nobel Prize” comment in this video, and just your general consistently optimistic and encouraging tone are very much appreciated.
Real life example: Every few years I had these intense dreams about a past real-life situation. In the dream, it was about if only I had the guts to do something, things would have turned out better. I'd wake up really disturbed, because it was about a real-life situation. I had to remind myself no, I was right to walk away, and I did choose to walk away, and it's for the best. I realized that deep down, I didn't really believe that and needed to consciously think it through. I've stopped having those dreams. Might or might not work as fiction.
Thank you for that excellent video. I had written a number or dream sequences in my story, but in doing so I had concerns that all dream sequences were bad because I had read so much advice against writing dream sequences. Your video affirmed that there is a right way to do dream sequences, and I was doing them the right way.
Thank You! 1 and 4 on the + side. 👍💥
Very timely, I'm fresh off of the dream train myself. I want to use a handful of short nightmare sequences to convey the main couple's deeper fears and traumas, leave them shaken, have them comfort each other and try to figure out how to cope and recover. I also want to use a dream a near the end in a similar vein to the island of lotus-eaters from The Odyssey, where the main character is effectively trapped in paradise and has to escape it in order to face reality with their partner and deal with a bittersweet ending. Gonna try hard to make this effective and interesting!
In my manuscript, the protagonist sometimes has dreams from someone else's life. To drive home how off-kilter these are, the writing shifts from third person limited past tense to first person present tense when it happens.
Not sure if this is the right thing to do, but I find it effective.
During my querying process over the last five months, the number one thing any agent requested not to read was dream sequences.
Dreams are quite important to me personally and in my story. So at least they saved me the trouble of querying the wrong agent, but it was kinda dejecting to keep crossing off the already small list I had of potential agents.
My entire story that I'm currently writing revolves around dreams and I don't shy away from writing them in my other WIPs
A couple of books that really helped me with dream sequences are WHEN BRAINS DREAM by Antonio Zadara & Robert Stickgold; and THE INTERPRETATION OF DREAMS by Freud. They're more psychologically technical, but it was helpful information for understanding how dreams function in both the physical and narratological sense.
Dream sequences can be really bad or confusing, and starting (prologue or first chapter) with one really throws readers of when they are new to your story. I personally don't care for them that much, especially if they are very long, and the author strings you along without any hint that it's a dream. I like how you provide many examples, and qualify 'rules' with practical advice on how they would work in different situations.
Whew! I was so worried about the dream sequence in my book, but it’s used as foreshadowing 😅
Mine part of a long game mystery. It's not super important for book 1's story, but very important for the MCs character arc.
I was literally trying to write a dream sequence today! This is going to help me a lot. I made mine a fear dream where my protagonist sees an apparition in the halls of the university he works at. Except the geometry of the halls are distorted into non-Euclidean simulacra. He can manipulate time in the real world. The dream is to demonstrate that the hero is worried about losing control of his ability and destroying everything. The dream ends when the apparition begins consuming the protagonist. Hopefully, once mastered, it’s true meaning will be open to many different, yet still valid interpretations.
That last line from Henry, even in a dream, is so essentially Henry. Just the type of conversation Richard would have with Henry, if the latter were still alive.
Mine includes a trauma related type of dream that happens to one of my characters...
Thank you for this, i thought i was doing it all wrong❤
I too have a dream that starts like an exaggerated memory of a real traumatic event and slowly turns into a nightmare that represents my protagonists fears.
I was wondering whether that was good use of a dream. I'm still not sure. I guess it's also a question of execution.
@DiemenAut It sounds great!🥺
I love how Milan Kundera used dreams in his The Unbearable Lightness of Being. They were packed with symbols that represented the mental states of his characters.
...and in Bulgakov's the master and margarita, when nikanor ivanovich had comical nightmare that served as a satire of soviet bureaucracy.
Love your videos. But one day I hope you pronounce the tilde in Bolaño's name.
As a Colombian, after a few of your videos, I thought: maybe Roberto does pronounce it the way you say it - Chile does like to do things differently.
I've been wrong about many a pronunciation (looking at you, French). But I've watched enough of his Spanish interviews and I'm pretty sure he pronounces his name with the tilde.
Also love that scene in The Secret History.
Then again, in A Nightmare on Elm Street, it doesn’t matter if it’s a dream, people still die
Currently got two late book dream sequences planned in my novel, and both fit broadly within the "Dreams as Supernatural Communication" type. I've drafted the first, but wasn't happy with it. After listening to this, I've realised it was too straightforwards and direct... going to throw in some of the protags fears and worries, then have the 'mission from god' point come up!
The thumbnail is great
I'm a fan of Carl Jung and whenever I talk about dream interpretation to my friends, I tell them dreams are to be interpreted like great literature: exactly how Dostoevsky used Raskolnikov's dream so he would realize in real life that he didn't want to kill that lady. How meta and satisfying!
How do you interpret extremely nonsensical, bizarre and random imagery and sounds?
Your videos are always so full of insight, thank you!
You never mention the film "Brazil," which has some excellent dream sequences
My characters either dream about past trauma or their desires. Both of them are really awful, really, because the first is re-living the trauma, and the second is something they know is impossible. Honestly, I’m not sure which is worse. So they don’t either.
Please, please make a vid on mastering first person pov! Recently I have started a new novel which is my second so far and lets just say i'm struggling to grasp the concept coming from writing the third person pov.
The movie "Brazil" uses a 'fake out' type dream for its ending, and I think it works in that context. Maybe it isn't really a 'dream', tho.
I love good dream sequences and I hope I've established that when I do write them. I try to keep the short, a page or less, and don't add them unless I feel they add something to the character or story.
Best way to incorporate dreams in narrative is Nightmare on Elm Street. You die in the dream you don't wake up, those are dream
stakes right there!
Pls make videos about how to make overused book trope good
Ahem! Instead of enjoying the video I...
Well, thanx a million, and here are my notes:
Five Mistakes
1 The Fake Out
Avoid starting or ending stories with “it was just a dream” moments, as they make readers feel deceived by offering false stakes.
2 The Forever Dream
Keep dream sequences short to maintain interest. Long dreams can lose readers since they lack real consequences.
3 The Normalizing Trap
Dreams should be illogical and surreal, not follow normal story logic. Embrace their inherent strangeness.
4 The Symbol Trap
Avoid using dreams as too-direct allegories. They should reflect unsettling, ambiguous meanings rather than clear-cut symbolism.
5 The Sloppy Substitute
If a scene is impactful enough as a dream, consider making it real to engage readers more deeply.
Using Dreams
1 Dreams as Foreshadowing
Use dreams to hint at future events, adding suspense and anticipation to the narrative.
2 Dreams as Epiphanies
Facilitate character realizations and plot advancement with dream insights, as seen in "The Sopranos."
3 Dreams as Comedy Routines
Incorporate dreams for humor, providing light-hearted interludes without impacting the plot.
4 Dreams as Supernatural Communication
Leverage dreams for divine or mystical messages, adding depth to supernatural or sci-fi narratives.
5 Dreams as Alternative Existence
Explore parallel realities or significant dream worlds, as in "Inception," where actions in dreams affect reality.
6 Dreams as Symbols
Effectively use dreams to illustrate internal conflicts or broader themes without being too on-the-nose, as in "Crime and Punishment."
7 Dreams as Desires
Reveal characters' deepest wishes through dreams, moving the story by highlighting essential motivations.
8 Dreams as the Impossible
Allow dreams to fulfill narrative needs unmet by reality, giving emotional resolutions or closures.
9 Dreams as Fears
Use nightmares to reflect characters’ fears, motivating actions or changes pivotal to the story, as in "The Vegetarian."
Hello, thank you so much for the information. What do you think of the dream sequences in Bojack Horseman?, especially "The View from Halfway Down" 6x15. My dream sequence is kind of a deep realistic conversation with a death character that brings closure or resolution to my main character. It would be a short chapter almost at the end. What could an editor think of it?.
One point I have to disagree with is your assertion that 50% of Lovecraft's "The Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath" takes place in the dream world. It's about 99%. He descends the seventy steps into the cavern of flame very early in chapter 1, and doesn't escape the dreamlands until the last paragraph in the book. I should also note that a character who dies in the dreamlands really dies in the waking world, in Lovecraft's mythos.
Of course, dreams were an important part of even his stories that had nothing to do with the dreamlands...
"When, after infinities of chaos, the first men came, the Great Old Ones spoke to the sensitive among them by moulding their dreams; for only thus could Their language reach the fleshy minds of mammals."
what about dreams as flashbacks? One of my characters has PTSD and I gave him a dream to introduce what his PTSD is about. Is that too on the nose?
As for russian - dream sequence in Master and Margarita seems too long for me the same way as for you
Inception wasn't 50% dreams though, it was 100% dreams within dreams.
I did include a dream in my book Hide and Seek. My protagonist in the dream was on trial in front of a vast crowd and a judge and she was pronounced guilty. The whole crowd chants "Guilty, guilty! guilty! "and then she woke up. I put his in to show her unconscious guilt. It wasn't very long but it gave an insight into her soul and her bullying that she had buried deep in her subconscious. In the dream, her "victims" appear and are named. I would only use dreams to show something about the character that wouldn't be so effective in another context. Some editors say "Never include a dream" so it's refreshing that you give a context in which dreams are permissible and advice on how to use dreams to advantage in writing. So, thanks and I am glad that there is a context in which dreams can be an integral part of a story.
Step 1. Don't write a dream sequence.
I get angry with the fact that dreams pop up in almost every book I’ve ever read (or it at least feels that way). I wish writers would leave dreams out of all of their books.
But I’ll excuse Donna Tartt 😂
They're definitely overused. I've never used a dream sequence in a story. The closest thing was that the character was forced into a rehab VR program (which he's in at thf start of the story, you realize later] that seemed so real even at the end he thought he was free to complete his mission.
I’m not against them per se but even the best writers seem to force themselves to slip a dream in whether necessary or not. I’ve been known to skip dream sections even in my favorite writers’ books.