$4 Knife vs. $400 Knife
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- No matter what your budget is for a knife, remember that YOU are the most important factor in your kitchen. A ford and ferrari go the same speed in traffic, so choose a knife that matches your skills, priorities and expectations. And as your skills increase, you will come to appreciate the added performance and design of the more expensive knives.
The knives in this video...
$50-$100 Zwilling Twin Signature 8"
$100-$200 Zwilling Pro 8"
$200-$300 Zwilling Kramer Carbon Steel 8"
$400 Zwilling Kramer Euroline Damascus 8"
If you want to buy a more affordable knife, I strongly recommend buying one from a company that ALSO makes expensive knives. That’s why I reached out to @zwilling_USA to sponsor this post. They make knives for EVERY budget, with the same commitment to quality going into their @henckels_int value brand that they have for their top of the line @zwilling_usa knives. I’ll be making some more content with them in the coming months to talk about knife skills and answer some common questions, so please let me know if there is anything you’d like me to include.
#knives #knifeskills #sponsored #zwilling1731 #cooking
![Cleaver Restoration [Black Cleaver With Ebony Handle]](/img/n.gif)
The knives in this video...
$50-$100 Zwilling Twin Signature 8"
$100-$200 Zwilling Pro 8"
$200-$300 Zwilling Kramer Carbon Steel 8"
$400 Zwilling Kramer Euroline Damascus 8"
No matter what your budget is for a knife, remember that YOU are the most important factor in your kitchen. A ford and ferrari go the same speed in traffic, so choose a knife that matches your skills, priorities and expectations. And as your skills increase, you will come to appreciate the added performance and design of the more expensive knives.
If you want to buy a more affordable knife, I strongly recommend buying one from a company that ALSO makes expensive knives. That’s why I reached out to @zwilling_USA to sponsor this post. They make knives for EVERY budget, with the same commitment to quality going into their @henckels_int value brand that they have for their top of the line @zwilling_usa knives. I’ll be making some more content with them in the coming months to talk about knife skills and answer some common questions, so please let me know if there is anything you’d like me to include.
#knives #knifeskills #sponsored #zwilling1731 #cooking
I would definitely love some knife skill tutorials for dummies!
I second the request for knife skill tutorials please. 😊
Using the same company for all knife tiers is very smart. Keeps it comparing apples to apples. If you had used other companies then new variables would be added, like each company's style or sharpening the blades, etc
What do you think about Victorinox? My chef dad always used them so I bought a $60 knife when I moved out. The steel seems decent but not amazing and the grip is utilitarian but not uncomfortable.
HRC is but one dimension of many when choosing a knife. Tbh it's a lot to unpack in a short form video!
Higher HRC doesn't ultimately mean its better. For example, cleavers and boning knives tend to experience more lateral stress on the knife edge and hit hard objects like bones. They need to be tough, but they still need to be flexible enough not to chip with every swing. Higher HRC (like 60+) can also be quite difficult to sharpen. So I'd recommend a softer HRC (58~) to practice sharpening techniques.
The intended use of the knife is ultimately what dictates its HRC. Fine/delicate knife work? Higher HRC for a more precise and longer-lasting cutting edge. All-purpose/work-horse knife? 55-60 HRC is totally fine.
Regardless, this a good albeit basic explanation on HRC and price. I particularly like the ford vs ferrari analogy. Great vid!
Carbon is added to all steel, that’s what steel is, iron and carbon. Not just high carbon steel.
And manganese
@@c-g462not required
Yes it is, it prevents sulfur compounds from weakening the steel @solarsoldier2456
@@c-g462 Well, its still technically steel without manganese, just worse steel.
@@jort93z from the research I've done, which could be wrong, manganese is neccesary.
As a student of chemical engineering, every steel is carbon infused iron cooled abruptly
Carbon steel refers to a steel with a high carbon content obviously they all contain carbon.
Technically if it has more than 2 percent carbon it's cast iron
A lot of stainless steels have more carbon than high carbon steels. S30v, s110v, s90v, m390, 20cv. Zdp 189
Yea but this guy doesn’t actually know anything
@@connorhughes5693 yup and Damascus is not trusted for hard use do to the soft core
You’re ignoring the fact that harder steels are more brittle and then can be prone to chipping. The harder the steel doesn’t necessarily mean a more expensive blade, and vice versa.
Or the harder the better either... Sharpening/grind angle, overall blade thickness etc.
Hardness and toughness are not total inverses of each other. There are many alloys that allow very high hardness and toughness with the proper heat treatment. Those alloys will have more expensive ingredients and will result in a more expensive knife
Well, this doesn't matter much with cooking knifes.
Unless you want to fight with it?
They're also, well, harder, which means while they hold an edge longer, they are really, really hard to sharpen.
I once water quenched (I didn't have oil and wasn't planning on selling it, or making it perfect) a blade before sharpening, and oh boy, did it not want to sharpen. I still need to normalize it so I can actually sharpen it.
@@GildedLithiumyou mean temper? Also it shouldn’t be much if any harder than an oil quench depending on the steel
I’m a bladesmith and there are so many people that design and make knives. Bob Kramer is an incredible knife maker but, there are thousands of knife makers and bladesmiths in America and i think it’s unfair to say he’s the greatest.
It's probably his mate or he's after some free stuff 😂
Totally agree
Definitely not the greatest.
It's clear in the video that he is quoting the WSJ, but the video is also promoting that knife brand as you can see by the "paid promotion" sign at the bottom
@@TheOriginalELno
Really nice to see "Zwilling" Knifes, a cutting tools factory around my area, represented in a foreign country. A friend of mine works there for the quality control department. I'm a quality control worker myself.
He told me, that they have ultra high standards, and that's where the price and quality come from. Those knifes are really good.
In 2031 they celebrate their 300th birthday.
Edit: Wow 450 likes, ty so much. :)
gotta love zwilling knives, theire the only knives i use in my kitchen, have been using them for 2 years now and they are still as sharp as new didnt even have to sharpen them. I got mine from Kaufland where they had a huge discount probably because i asume that they are a "B-ware" product as the back of the knives had a few blemishes that were just some scrapes. It doesnt effect the sharpness of the blade but i would asume that it rules them out of being sold for the normal price of like 80-100€
Yeah, they have very high Standards their, I actually live in that city which produces around 80% of the Words most known Knife.
Almost every Knife from there (city called Solingen in Germany) is very good quality
I love when there are actions where I can get them cheaper than original price😂
@@radschele1815 oh yes, but for that price, you didn’t get some China Trash
Pro tip: Don't put them in the dish washer or they'll be very dull very fast.
Damascus is purely cosmetic. It’s not harder than regular high-carbon-steel.
Yeah I fell for the whole Damascus bullshit… the best knives are Masamoto, but they rust… for me, Global are the best all rounders. They are one piece, made in Japan.
@@smoll.miniatures Do the Masamotos rust even when sharpened to a polish and wiped with oil after use?
@@univega2003 No but they tarnish during use after cutting acidic foods. You’d never use them in a commercial kitchen. They can be sharpened much more than stainless but dull quicker. Everything’s a trade off. That’s why I think global is the sweetspot. I’ve owned loads of German knives with composite handles and they fail after 10 years. Global is 1 piece ( well actually 2 but welded into 1). You can wash them in your dish washer no problem. Quick hone and they are sharp enough.
Oh i love my global set. Glad to see it being loved @twelfthscale
@@smoll.miniaturesnever ever put knives in the dishwasher my dude.
400 on a production Damascus knife is nuts. You can find good custom makers for that or cheaper. Jokers Blade Works and Anchor forge to name a few.
I have a no-brand one from Amazon, $50, bought 8 years ago. Still great.
Tbf it’s stainless Damascus but yeah
400 USD for a knife??? I would rather buy a $4 knife and sharpen it when it's blunt.
@@cmwong98 Don't forget the $350 hipster cutting board made from Himalayan Coocoowood tree by a carpenter with a long beard.
@@cmwong98 U need to sharpen the 400 usd knive aswell. they also have 4000 usd knive.. for if u want one that was handcrafted from a japanese bladesmith of old.. some of these most popular old geezers can ask the world for one of the last knives they make or have made.
The Damascus pattern in the final knife is arguably for aesthetics in this case. It certainly won't improve the paper test from the previous knife if the shape and grind angle are essentially the same. Nor will the drop forged knife matter in how it cuts if it isn't sharpened well. Essentially what you're trying to say is that the harder the steel in the knife the better it should cut. A knife is a very personal choice for most people who cook a lot. Well produced content from a videography perspective however.
I don't have a lot of knowledge about knives etc, but just being familiar with general promotional material, the last few knives just sound like gimmicks to lure people with too much money or too little info, or both
@@439801RS
You can put a single layer of very hard steel in the core, and softer, steel around it from both side to protect the core(because hard steel is brittle). This is called sanmai, but is often combined with damascus as well, might as well when you are layering steels anyway. This is actually what they did on this knife.
You don't actually need it to be damascus, you could also just use 3 layers, SG2 in the middle and crappier steel(doesn't really matter, any steel will do, probably chose it mostly for the color in this case) around it.
Theres not really enough time in the video to explain details
@@jort93zThe more generic/specific term is laminated steel (also in Japanese you can use "sanmai" when asking for 3 sheets of paper, or something similarly flat), and from what I've seen hand patterning it is probably more work than just welding 3 flat pieces of steel together in a a steel mill (which can still create patterns when you cut/form a blade, but not Damascus).
Of course you can argue all day about forged vs pre-laminated and other parts of knife manufacturing, how hard you actually want your knife edge, and other such matters. I don't think these knives are as expensive as they are because of the stuff pointed out in this video.
> The point of buying pre-laminated steel is to do away with the problems associated with in-house forge welding. One of those problems is that the very high temperatures required to successfully weld will also cause decarburization in the steel.
> The whole idea of shirogami #1A is to add a little extra carbon to the original shirogami #1, which adds allowance for carbon to leave the core during the weld to end up at the same % carbon (post-weld) as the original shirogami #1.
> So essentially, both knives you mentioned are designed to be the same core steel, even though the specification sheet might say otherwise.
Exactly. Damascus is just a combination of two steels. I think it's usually like 15N20 and 1095 or something like that. One is stainless the other isn't and those differences in steels are what lead to them bringing out different contrasts after chemical etching. Using two steels that are very similar would end up in an underwhelming and barely noticeable pattern.
But all that said, combining two or more steels into a bunch of layers won't give you a harder steel than a blade made from a single steel.
It all comes down to what steel vs. what steel and what HRC level you will yield after HT. There's tons of datasheets out there on the many types of steels and what hrc you can expect along with detailed breakdowns of different levels of alloys and other info.
@@reddragonflyxx657 Sanmai is more specific. Sanmai is specifically stacking 3 seperate pieces of steel with the middle one being a harder one. There are other many other ways to arrange steels that the edge has a different material than other parts of the blade. In kitchen knifes, 2 other types are somewhat common, ni-mai, which is two layers(used for single bevel knives) and warikomi. In warikomi they are not layered, but the softer steel is split and a harder piece is placed inside and forge welded in place. So there is soft steel all along the spine.
Idk what you are talking about, nobody mentioned shirogami steel, none of the knives are made from shirogami steel. Nobody argued about forged vs pre laminated either
My $20 knives have lasted 20 years or more and are very sharp. I'm happy.
A lot of people really don't know what a sharp knife is. Until they first hold an actually sharp knife.
I cooked at my fathers house a couple months ago. And before I came over I asked him if he had good sharp knives. He said he did. I come over and I literally had to use the knife like a saw, because that thing would not cut at all. It is all a matter of perspective
Maybe you hadn't experienced razor sharp knife before, once you cut with it you wont return to your old knife again.
Knives are like cameras. Sure, a cheap on will do and it’s more about the wielder. However, a tool with more capabilities increases that same wielder’s success rate!
As a steel guy, I think that with 20$ you should get a pretty decent knive. With this price, material can be good steel both homogeneous in microstructure and chemical element distribution. Nice wooden handle and other optical features are just an add-on for visuals or ergonometry and have nothing to do with blade sharpness. The initial grind of the blade though will be determining how you have to sharpen your blade.
If you know how to sharpen your blade it should be as good as any luxury knive.
Edit: 20 years ago 20$ was plenty of money compared to now. I got a Solinger Windmühlenmesser for like 40 Euros 4 years ago (Carbon steel knive with Aluminia polish finish which was a technique that for the first time allowed to produce carbon steel knives that would not rust but rather form a patina)
@@keesdekarper do you know how weak that sounds? Brah he said it cuts just fine your talking about struggling with a knife that any person before the 1900s would have deemed excellent quality the only people I see a sharp knife as a game changer for is in a restaurant or butchers/hunter otherwise no difference to cooking for a family
Never pay more than necessary to get the job done. If you want to cut paper, get a $2 pair of scissors.
Some of us like to have nice tools that will last. It’s about long term cost and time vs upfront cost. I can buy a set of harbor freight junk and it’ll break so fast or I can buy snap on of and they’ll last forever.
@@Joker-em6oz I appreciate you reply and understand your reasoning. I purchased a knife for $10 three years ago, and use it everyday to cut meat, fruits and vegetables, and and it got the job done nicely and stayed sharp to this day without sharpened it even once. My point is that any grade of steel is so much harder that anything that you would typical use it to cut with such as meats, fruits, and vegetable that there is no need to get the hardest steel possible to get the job done. And typical uses isn't going to break the handle, either. Basically, manufacturers want to make money and try hard to sell consumers things that are way over designed for the purposes that it is made for. A $400 knife is 100 times more expensive than a $10 knife in my case has already lasted 3 years and going strong and so to justify the cost of a knife that costs 100 times more, that means that knife needs to last 300 years. So, I prefer to save the extra money for something else that I may need.
@@itslogical3884you do not know what sharp is. There is not a single knife in the world that stays sharp for 3 years with regular use. Definitely not a 10 dollar knife. Most home cooks use dull knives, yes dull knives still cut. But a sharp knife out performs a dull blade every time and that's what pro chefs and actual good hobby cooks prefer. A dull knife also doesn't get much more dull after a certain point, where a very sharp knife can dull very fast.
@@itslogical3884You know that these people uses their knives 24/7 + 8+ hours right? That's why their knife is literally their lifeline
@@itslogical3884 You clearly don't know what you're talking about 💀 jrc
carbon knives don't have carbon added. You can have a stainless steel with more carbon than a carbon steel. It's about less elements added to reduce reactivity. It also has less to do with making the knife harder and more to do with ease of maintaining a sharper edge. Damascus knives also don't have a higher hardness than carbon knives necessarily and in reference to damascus steel in knives, the purpose it entirely cosmetic.
All steel has carbon in it. And yes, Damascus steel is a gimmick.
He clearly doesn’t know shit lol
@@Murderbot2000 The knife in the video is not Damascus. What is shown is pattern welded steel.
@@drakemasters7952 which is commonly known as damascus steel, "True Damascus" as some would say is known as Wootz steel or Wootz Damascus which is just crucible steel.
@@Murderbot2000eh mostly but not completely. Damascus can have higher edge retention
I recently saw a video of how knives are made and that made me appreciate the beauties that you have shown, the Damascus knife looks absolutely gorgeous, I'd feel bad using it lol.
Also,
"If it cut, it good."
-My Asian Grandfather
Victorinox plastic grip never let me down.
Best knife $ for $ period. Spending hundreds on a kitchen beater is for suckers.
Yup hands down best knives for the money
Amen. Got mine 13 years ago and only sharpened it 3 time on the grinder. Best investment of my life
Most expensive ones, if you include all the band-aids you need.
I've got a Messermeiser, which is in the same class and price point as the Vic. These knives are like AK-47s, completely utilitarian and no finesse. Cheap, easy to clean, takes a good edge. But they handle like a brick.
The Damascus is quite beautiful. If you cook a lot, that in itself may be worth its price. If the style doesn't matter to you, every one of those knifes will perfectly do the job. I know how to cook and I can do it with a $5 knife, no problem. What you absolutely need is the knife to be a cooks knife (of those 4 only the two more expensive ones). That's of paramount importance.
"Includes paid promotion"
OP hasn't responded to any comment that's calling out that his claims with Damascus are flat out wrong, but love hearting all the comments praising Damascus.
That Damascus looks sick as hell
What is misleading here is the Damascus steel is not what does the cutting. The Damascus steel is just a pretty cladding to the SG2 steel core which is what makes up the cutting edge.
Succinct 👌
What an incredibly helpful and easy to digest video. Really like your content.
Glad it was helpful!
I had the same German forged steel knife for over 15 years now. Made in Solingen. I resharpen it once or twice a year, and that is enough.
Quality.
@TriggTube My $12 Chinese cleaver holds an edge incredibly well, and while I do own a Wustof set as well, price isn't the sole factor in knife/edge performance. I respect knife makers and their art, but you're just shilling out to brand manufacturers and correlating that as marks of performance and quality.
@@TriggTube GERMAN HANDWERK IS GREAT
I'm a knife maker and metallurgical engineer: all steel has carbon, but will have more or less depending on the alloy. The nicer knives probably have more carbon, but the hardness is much more dependent on heat treatment when talking about plain carbon steel (as opposed to steel with other alloying elements besides carbon). Damascus steel does not have inherently better properties than monosteel, and there are many modern monosteels that would actually suffer from being pattern welded. With modern steel, pattern welding is 100% for aesthetics
Thanks so much for sharing your expertise. I did share those details about Damascus steel in my longer video, but couldn't fit in the nuance in the short. Comments are great for clarifying those things. Thanks!
For low alloy steel Damascus, there is the cutting effect that occurs that slightly increases edge retention but other mechanical properties remain largely the same between monosteel and Damascus.
Wrong. Fine pattern welded steel with bands aligned transverse to the cutting edge will outperform almost any modern steel. Knife steel nerds has performed two videos on this. It’s a very interesting subject.
@@BabymoonbladesYou obviously didn't comprehend their videos very well because modern steels outperform Damascus steel in every way. Powdered steels are free from defects and can be flawless in their crystal structure and composition.
Thank you, Zac Efron, very informative
Bro be telling Micheal Myers what blade to choose
That last Kramer knife is made out of SG2 steel and that is why that knife is so good. One of the best steels when it comes to knifemaking. Damascus pattern is just for cosmetic purposes and has nothing to do with quality.
Currently the "Top Dogs" amongst named knife steels are
Edge retention: Maxamet or K390
Corrosion/rust resistance: Lc200n and Magnacut. The H series steels are basically rust proof but have pitiful edge holding and are therefore pretty much reserved for dive knives
Outright toughness is always gonna be a carbon steel like 1095 but some semi stainless like cruwear are also extremely tough
And if you like the look of Damascus but want something with less maintenance involved steels made by Damasteel have amazing patterns and are decently stainless
Edit: forgot to add for general kitchen use VG-10 with a decent heat treat and grind is all anyone really needs lmao
I think for kitchen knives something like nitro V is perfect. Tough and can take a fine edge. Maxamet is a great tool steel but can be a pain to sharpen. Personally I’m a rex45 kinda guy.
A stamped knife stock still needs to go through a forging process. The stock material still needs to undergo a compression process that thins the stock material.
dont care about the numbers. damascus knife pretty
This is true.
Beautiful is the word. I want one. In this very short video , learned enough about knives and the ones I had purchased at a discount store , are of the first variety. Gotta abandon that idea and adopt one of the highest quality. Thanks .
Investing in a good Damaskus knife was the best decision. A good knife makes cooking way more fun and is much safer due to less force required to cut through things. Plus: it looks much cooler in the kitchen.
These are all true.
Damascus doesn't change much in terms of performance, and in the exact case of this knife, the pattern has a uniform core. That means you're not getting any cutting benefit from the damascus. Basically it's just a nice looking normal knife.
Also i can't believe a cheap knife won't cut paper twice, he should sharpen it properly, remove the burr, and then check how it holds up.
A few people tested cheap knives, and they will last a lot longer than we would think
Damascus cuts the same, in this case the Damascus had a different type of steel or a heat treatment than the carbon steel to put it at 63 HRC vs 61 HRC
@@itsmederek1 some damascus can cut better if given the right pattern with the right materials, but it's very very rarely the case
@@jeanladoire4141 Interesting, do you have any resources or videos I can watch to learn more?
My Knife for work is the Kramer Damascus,
Thing is a damn near necessity. 10/10
But harder doesn't nescessarily mean better. Yes there's a point where steel is too soft, but also too hard. When knives are very hard, it also means that the steel is more brittle. More brittle knives like damascus ones are more likely to get microchips along the edge than softer knives. Also softer knives can restore their sharpeness easily by using a sharpening steel, which only straightens the edge while removing only very little material. Damascus knives on the other hand have to be sharpened with a wetstone once dull which takes off quite a bit of material. If you use it much, the knive gets smaller each time. That's why you rarely see damascus knives used in restaurants and if they are they are exclusively used for tasks that need very sharp knives and are easy on the edge like cutting meat where the knive doesn't come as much in contact with the board as with chopping vegetables. A good swiss or german stainless steel knive is a better workhorse than damascus knives
Sharpening/honing steels dont do anything.
Source: Ourdoors55 What do "knife sharpening" honing steels actually do.
Additionally, some of the sharpest and hardest knives are used for vegetable cutting
Nakiri and usuba.
And the reason why Damascus knives aren't used in restaurants is because they're more expensive than one without a pattern using the same steels. Without offering any actual benefits in use.
@@Alsry1 Even most michelin star chefs use normal stainless steel knives and michelin star restaurants aren't stingy when it comes to the best equippement
@@nameless3919 I don't think you get the point. Damascus knifes are not any harder or sharper. Its purely a visual thing these days. They don't get them, because they are literally the same as a knife using the same steel.
The knife in this case is harder, because it is using a technique called sanmai, where a particularly hard steel is sandwiched between two layers to form a particularly hard edge. The two layers sandwiching it in this case happen to be damascus. That doesn't really have anything to do with damascus, the damascus doesn't even form the cutting edge, the edge is just the middle layer of a different steel. The damascus is literally only on the outside, not on the edge, doesn't influence the sharpness at all.
I work in a restaurant kitchen, currently the only sharp knives in it are my high carbon knives, and it's not because I sharpen them more, they are definitely useful. That said, a good ceramic honing rod is much more valuable
I used to think Damascus was all vanity. But the harder steel gives me food for thought. I'd probably still keep it in a box most of the time. I'd need to work up to using it every day.
It’s not harder because it’s Damascus, it’s harder due to heat treat. Damascus is almost all vanity, although it can have increased edge retention if the orientation is right
Awww man, I work in kitchens, but I don't even know anything about the heat when it comes to metal. 😅
Explain further. I'm here for it.
@@ShovelChef you want an explanation for how heat treated works? How sciencey?
Max it out.
@@ShovelChefsteel has a couple different crystal phases. At equilibrium it’s pearlite and ferrite or cementite. Pearlite is layers of cementite and ferrite. ferrite is iron rich and cementite is carbon rich, ferrite has very low solubility for carbon. When you heat up steel, it because a different structure called austenite. Austenite has a high solubility for carbon, essentially it’s able to move between the iron atoms at a higher temperature. To harden steel you have to quench it or in other words cool it really fast. This locks the carbon between the atoms instead of it moving l out and segregating into cementite as it normally would if it was cooled slower. This new phase with the locked carbon is called martensite. Martensite is a high stress phase which means it’s very hard and very brittle. To remedy this, you can temper the blade, bake at a relatively low temperature, which allows some of the carbon to get out between the atoms. This creates tempered martensite. The reason why martensite is so brittle and hard is because the atoms are unable to move or slip is the word that would be used. You can think of this as atoms sliding past each other. The carbon inbetween the atoms impedes this meaning instead of deforming, the blade will shatter. Tempering recovers some of these planes.
Now why some steels are better than others, well it has to do with alloying agents. Different elements will increase hardness or flexibility of the blade depending on the carbide it creates when in solution.
Important part is that "sharper" also means more brittle. Hack a bone, the blade might shatter. Or even just using a shopping board that's too hard or drop it in the sink. Easy chip. Which is why not all knives are "sharper" than they need to be. Thick boy heavy plate steel knives are essential to any real knife work, and you'll probably end up using it more.
Harder means more brittle, sharper doesn't necessarially mean more brittle.
You can get a quite soft knife very sharp(at least if it isn't insanely soft), and leave a very hard knife dull.
The difference is that a harder blade will retain its edge for longer.
The type of gind also has some impact on how brittle the edge is, but isn't directly correlated to sharpness either. Except for the first one, they all have the same kind of grind(flat grind, which is typical for western kitchen knifes)
He briefly touched on it in the video too.
@@jort93zsharper does mean more brittle. A sharper blade is a thinner blade and thus a more delicate blade.
The difference between a $4 knife and a $400 knife? With the $4 knife, you get to keep the knife and you still have the $396 in your bank account!
That last knife almost certainly isn't Damascus steel, but rather just pattern welded. Actual Damascus steel is incredibly weird (last I heard we still hadnt been able to recreate it right, akin to Roman concrete that was only recently rediscovered), and not something you can get for $400. Pattern welding is beautiful, but doesn't actually increase the usability.
We recreated it 20 years ago. Also Damascus has reddened to pattern welding for centuries
Real Damascus is recreatable, but it’s not as super as folklore says it is. Compare to modern steels it’s bad, but in its day it was the best. Larren Thomas as a video about it.
Wootz steel has been figured out for ages. It's hilarious when white people didn't invent something, it becomes "weird, strange, and we don't understand how it came about. Must be magic or aliens."
I go with $4 one, thank you!
Meanwhile me using ½ dollar knife and still happy
Kohetsu Gyuto stainless clad Aogami Super blue Wa Handled HRC: 64-65 270 mm ~$200
For 99% of people, i can tell you that with one 30$ knife is enough for most scenarios
That damascus knife is the hardest because of the heat treat and carbon content of the core. Not because it's pattern welded.
Well, not exactly. It’s the whole alloy, not just the carbon. He also said nothing about the hardness being related to the Damascus
I love my Kramer knife! I would give every custom knife I own away for more.
True. That's my daily knife when I'm not filming.
These comments are from non knife makers. Upsets me. My 20k in tooling and years making the shit.....
The last one is basically valyrian steel
Magnacut steel 63/64HRC
No chipping 👌
Great short form, but think of Damascus as a cosmetic choice rather than a performance choice. Damascus steel (modern, ik ancient Damascus was different) just means 2 different steels that react at different rates to an acid wash. Damascus doesn't mean better, even though its base steels can be good.
Am I the only one who got Patrick Batman vibes? He's very clean-cut. 😂
difference is that I can buy 100 $4 knifes vs 1 $400 Knife.
The 4 dollar knife with a pull through sharpener is gonna be more reliable than a 200 dollar knife you are scared to misuse and sharpen. You dont want expensive equipment, you want reliable.
If you’re scared to use it, that’s your fault not the equipments. It’s a tool. It’s designed to be used and receive wear and tear.
Technically, that final knife is _damascened,_ not Damascus - damascened, or pattern-welded, steel is material which uses two different alloys folded together to produce that distinctive wavy pattern
Meanwhile, Damascus steel is an otherwise typical steel containing a minor percentage of Vanadium - this tiny elemental addition (just 0.5%!) means that when melted into a solid puck, and then put through a few further heating -not melting- cycles, the steel forms an internal structure that looks like the sand on a riverbed - flowing and beautiful, and pretty damn good at keeping an edge, while we're at it
Technically, it is Damascus as the word Damascus has referred to pattern welded steel for centuries now.
And traditional Damascus isn’t that typical, it tends to be extremely high carbon at like 1.5wt% carbon. Additionally, your number for vanadium is too high. It could be much less and still exhibit the pattern
The riddle of steel
Im just glad there was no talk about the Damascus cutting effect. The wording on the Damascus knife makes it sound like the higher hrc is because of the Damascus alloys. The knife has a mono steel sg2 core which is heat treated to a higher hrc. 52100 the steel used in the low alloy high carbon knife is capable of being run as high as 67 hrc and still less likely to chip than the 63 hrc sg2. They choose to temper the hardness back to differentiate the less expensive mono steel blade from the Damascus blade. Also the forged thing is misrepresentation, the stamped knife is just cheaper so they don't bother adding a bolster or rounding the edges. If they made the cheaper knife as comfy as the expensive knife there would be no reason for the expensive knife. At least Zwilling is forth coming with the information but I get a little salty when decisions are made for marketing reasons vs performance.
Damascus Cutting effect is a thing?
@@Joker-em6oz it's bs. When Moran started revitalizing pattern welded steel he made a bunch of wild claims and one of the wildest was the Damascus cutting effect. Long story short even if you weld iron with high carbon steel, carbon travels and redistributes itself at forge welding temps so you end up with a steel that's in the middle of the 2 alloys in performance. The only way that I have seen that replicates the phenomenon Moran claimed is to use soft non ferrous material like nickel in the pattern welded material. Either way it's moot since this knife uses a mono steel sg2 core.
@@coultermoulton1663 it’s not, you over estimate the speed of diffusion for carbon, additionally the Damascus cutting effect doesn’t have to be with low and high carbon content. You can still have superior edge retention due the Damascus. That is what the article by Dr.Larrin Thomas shows.
@@coultermoulton1663 it’s not a moot point, you’re trying to be pedantic and argumentative while being wrong.
@@Joker-em6oz I read the same article. The first section quotes the Verhoevan and Howard study stating that at forging welding temperatures normal sized layers equalize carbon content in a couple seconds. There was not a universal increase in cuts, in fact the high alloy steels saw virtually no increase over the parent high wear resistant steel. SG2 falls into that category so unless they pattern welded it with a higher wear resistant steel there would be no increase in cutting capacity. Once again it doesn't matter since they use a core steel and the pattern welded material doesn't cross the cutting edge. I'll concede that there is some benefit in lower alloy steels, but the only example that really stood out was the 1095 and nickel. A 10% increase in cards cut to get a 20-50% decrease in toughness also seems like an unfair trade. Hence this is why I call the whole Damascus cutting effect bs. It has to be specific alloys with specific patterns to get at best a minor increase in performance at worst a worse product. Call it pedantic, call it whatever you like, I'm trying to provide insight where I can. If you don't like it there is a block button there.
There are so many inaccuracies in this video.
Such as?
Damascus is a finish, not an actual technical steel nowadays. Many japanese knives that don't have damascus go to HRC 63+
The "Damascus steel" is just pattern welded steel and does nothing for a modern blade except change the looks the cutting edge is still just a mono steel. The central layer you cut with is just a high carbon steel.
Also high carbon steel might be harder and their edges last longer but they are more likely to chip and harder to sharpen.
The difference is the $400 knife will cut my monthly budget to oblivion.
The cut off at 24:27 🤣
Carbon steel is not steel but with carbone because to make steel you need to add Carbon. If you dont it juste iron. Carbon steel is iron with (i dont know the exact number) from ish 0.55% to 1% of carbon
hardness does not equal durability...a harder steel will take a finer edge but is often more prone to chipping and losing that fine edge.
generally not, harder knives generally keep their edge longer than softer removes but there are other things that affect edge retention
If im getting stabbed, you better be sure its the Damascus steel babay
Got pretty close to ur hand there on the first cut 😭
That knife is $4????
I think we should worry about that
Right?
Damascus steel is a lost art, this is just some poopy aesthetic.
The harder the steel, the harder it is to sharpen.🤔
63 is far from the hardest steel yet. you can get 200 dollar Japanese knives that go up to 67
Hardest steel yet as in hardest steel mentioned in this list of knives, not hardest steel ever
I really dislike Damascus. I think it ruined the clean aesthetic of knives and blades. And to me it’s more a novelty that you pay more for than anything else. Then again it’s still cheaper than bench made, as they do a gagillion percent markup for the name LOL.
So buy a sharpener for that 4 dollar knife, then buy a new 4 dollar knife every couple of years.
Vanax is the best option
Me with a one dollar knife: 🙂
All steel has carbon. It's what makes iron, steel. Higher or lower percentages change the hardness of the steel. Stainless steel has other metals, like nickel, chromium and such, mixed in to make it not rust.
Damascus steel is not a harder or "better" steel. It is a cosmetic thing.
He didn’t say Damascus was a harder steel
Sorry for the confusion. I just said THIS Damascus knife is more expensive because it IS harder AND because of aesthetics. Obviously other Damascus knives that aren't as expensive are also not as hard. Or as well designed.
I use a IKEA ceramic knife. Have used it for 10 years. It's as sharp as on the day i bought it.
You can buy a perfectly fine knife for cheap - just buy it from a trusted brand which gives you information on the steel they use. Look up online what kind of steel it is and what a proper kitchen knife should have. If you sharpen it from time to time, you are good to go. Bought one for 30€ a couple of years ago and it's perfectly fine.
The "damscus steel" optic contributes nothing to the quality of the steel nor the knife.
Your face is harming people! Just FYI you might want to use some kind of different filter
How many peoples are watched forged in fire 🔥 at history Tv 18 😊 assemble here 😊
Found the knife nerds being helpful. It's nice to see. The info in the comments is better than the short.
So much misinformation....like almost everything said ...
Stamped vs forged has nothing to do with comfort, only grain structure/strength/edge retention. Demascus doesnt make it stronger, its mainly asthetic, really. Too much to go in about. Hardness customization is different for every material composition, and high hardness is not the best for everything, but enlarged you can say a harder blade will last longer but chip more easily, lower hardness will be tougher but will dull faster and be easier to sharpen back. Look up knife steel nerds
Not really misinformation, you just misunderstood.
He was referring to the forged integral bolster when talking about forged vs stamped.
He also never said Damascus made it stronger or harder
So simply sharpen your knife with a sharpening steel like people used to before every use.
Don’t do that. First off those don’t sharpen, second it’s bad for your knife, third it doesn’t work if your knife is above 60 hrc
That hurts to listen to. I really don’t know anything about your cooking background, but your knowledge about that “fancy alloy” called steel is next level. Please don’t use any word you don’t know.
He didn’t? What are you talking about?
Hey, great video overall but you you mentioned some stuff that is not totally correct. 1. All knife-steels do have carbon in them, but the amount differs from stainless to normal steel.
2. The damascus knive you showed is only damascus cladding and the cutting edge is a mono steel so so has no effect on the hardness of the knife itself.
1 he never said anything against that. 2. He never said the Damascus steel made it harder
watch this video if you need to unbrick yourself
Can you try making Parrozzo for P? It's a dessert from my region, Abruzzo.
The price of a knife means little to someone who can sharpen it with a whetstone.
damascus is soft metal blended with harder metal thats why you can use acid to get patterns, the acid eats away more of the softer steel, damascus is not the hardest metal you usally make it cause it's pretty cool, whell for looks noting else
The knife shown in the video is using sanmai. The damascus is only cladding. The cutting edge is just a solid SG2 steel billet.
That’s not true, the metals can be very similar hardness and the acid would eat away at different rates. They have to have different acid resistances to be used in Damascus.
For your average home cook, you only need the $50 knife. Beyond that point, you start getting into specialty and novelty knives intended for specific use cases and needing extra special treatment you might not be able or willing to properly provide.
Get what you think fits your needs, just don't buy the cheapest option because you will get what you paid for.
People with obsidian knives would be laughing in the corner
Ah yes, the vastly inferior knife material
such a good video, until you make it seem as if damascus would make a better steel
He didn’t tho
What do you mean by carbon steel? In industrial applications there is stainless steel and carbon steel. Carbon steel is the lower quality material in most cases (extreme risk of corrosion when exposed to wet environments). Why is it praised as something special in this video?
Carbon steel is any steel that isn’t corrosion resistant and is relatively high carbon content in blacksmithing. It’s cool because it isn’t corrosion resistant and can patina
So it means that with 4$ knife You get paid 396$ for regularry sharpening your own knife. Not bad...
This difference between a 4$ knife and a 400$ knife is 396$
Mans looks higher than my inflated rent😂 great short, definitely got my HRC to 100!
Hardy hard hard.
Damascus steel was invented in india
that's what Damascus for
that's what the point of Damascus
Mere waala dedsau l(₹150) ka hai lekin kaat ta badiya hai😊
What can you say about knives made from salvaged leaf springs from trucks ?
What is there to say? It’s reclaimed mystery steel with sub par heat treatment and potential fatigue from continued use
Starting my career as a Chef some 20 years ago, I would have been willing to spend a fortune on fancy knives, which ofcourse I couldn't afford.
So I bought mainly no name knives, took care of them, maintained them myself and still use them today. Espacially one of them, back then 20 DM, is very dear to me, as in my 13 freelancing travelling years alone, this tool helped me to make about 1 Million Euros in revenue and feed my family. I had it with me every single day.
Boils down to this: buy once, cry once, but knives do not need to be fancy and expensive. This vid truely points it out, its all about the steel. Inferior material won't last, overly expensive knives won't give you any - pun intended - edge.
The difference is $396
Carbon makes carbides. Iron carbides are steel...all steels have iron carbides... that said, stainless steel has chrome. Carbon and chrome make chromium carbides, which are several magnitudes harder than iron carbides. The hardness of steel is determined by the heat treatment process, not entirely by the steel type, cheap knife was cutting with a burr, sharpen them the same way, and they will perform the same way. Edge geometry is the most important part of how well a knife of any steel will perform......
fun fact, if it's steel it has carbon...THAT'S HOW YOU MAKE IRON INTO STEEL
Yes he knows that. That doesn’t invalidate the term carbon steel.
Yes. I didn't make up the term.
Cheap knife probably just has a burr on it that wasn’t removed expensive knife they probably have the same edge but removed the burr so it’ll last much longer. If you have a cheap soft stainless knife and apex it properly and remove the burr it’ll last for a long time too
The Good Old German techniques
My japanese knives look like soaceships compared to this.
Very true, and personally mine are all cheaper