I've been sharpening edges for 50 years. I have the skill to sharpen as Rob is showing. it DOES take experience and skill. some of the comments are from folks that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. They can LEARN the skill, but they don't have it yet. As Rob says, if you are not making a burr, you are not going to get it sharp. I have about 100 gouges, maybe 30 planes, 50 chisels 30 or so carving knives and scorps, ETC to keep sharp. I have diamond stones, water stones, CBN wheels (and stones) and buffers and polishers etc. ALL of them can and do work. They sure do a MUCH better job than most / ALL pull thru sharpeners that households have. Those make the knife cut well for a few days, but in the end, slowly destroy the knife. As to jigs? There ARE jigs that do work well. They can do curves very nicely too, contrary to what some comments, But as Rob says, IF you are skilled, in general the jig takes longer to set up. Still it usually can produce a very "professional" looking edge. For myself, I sharpen enough things to have finally gotten a 72x2" belt grinder. With such, burning risk is close to nil. And having buffers, and grits to 2000 and EASY to maintain angles, it makes sharpening extremely fast. (I sharpened 20 knives from poor condition to perfect in less than 1/2 hour. (A group of friends brought their knives to me last weekend) Personally, I think the one thing to help the average home is learning how to use a steel. IF you do learn such a simple process, you can keep your knives MUCH sharper for longer.
If you're trying from UA-cam, you're going to ruin a lot of sharpening materials on both ends. If you're self teaching, be CHEAP. Learn how with garbage. It's unwieldy and horrible but If you can make garbage do what you want, you're on the right track.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Michael, I really appreciate it and the compliment. I hope wrapping your fingers around the handle or supporting it makes a good difference for you.
Thanks for the demonstration Rob. I have various grades of machinists stones and I'll give it a go with the missus' kitchen knifes. There's no such thing as too sharp....
Thanks for demonstrating. I'm a butcher and used to take my knives to get sharpened professionly. What I didn't like about that was that my my knives would get thinner and thinner. A couple of old time butchers on Facebook suggested I get a multi oil stone and that's what I did. I also got a new knife and I got it razor sharp on the oil stone.
Meat cutter here, and over 20yrs on sharping knifes. I will grind through 2 knifes a year, that is 6 or 6 1/2" flex or standard. It is what I chose, on neck meat I will use a 6" (5" now) standard that will be a ice pick by than. Steel clean, Hot water with soap, knifes ect. I did sub so well see.
Thank you for your subscription William, I really, really do appreciate them. Meat cutters / butchers knives seem to be different kettle of fish compared to sharpening chef and knives for the home kitchen. I have sharpened butchers knives and it never ceases to amaze me how those guys can not only take an edge off in a few hours, within weeks their knives are changing shape.
An excellent demonstration! I think I worked out several things from the demo on what I've been doing wrong and definitely like the explanation on the way to grip the knife so we can get the bevel on the stone right along the blade. I've been using one of those "You beaut easy sharpening" tools, but I have wondered if it worked consistently along the blade. And it's fantastic to see some great Aussie content on UA-cam! Good one, mate!
Great vid, very interesting. I recently got some Shapton water stones and while they are very nice, I'm not very good with them...yet. The puzzling thing is, I used my dads old oil stone that has been around for ever and, I got good results on it. I really don't know why. I will keep your technique in mind and keep trying.
It depends a lot on how things when on the 400 grit stone. I often do 100 per side on the 1k and 3k. The 1k stone is important in that you take time on it to make sure that no micro chips have developed or been exposed. I use paper to test the edge. Paper will collect on the edge and it then becomes a bit easier to know exactly where the edge needs more work.
I use newsprint on my higher grit stones. So on anything over 5k, I finish the blade on newsprint to hopefully clean up the edge and remove any remaining burr. On the lower grits, I use a hand held leather strop and do the same wobbling action.
I don't have a preferred brand. Currently I have a range of stones including Shapton, Morihei, Imanishi and Naniwa. I have three 12,000 grit stones and feel each one has its place. It depends on the circumstance as to how much mud I want or don't want. How hard or soft I want the stone. Feedback plays a big role.
Hi Jason, I made that myself. It's two pieces of Merbau decking timber with the chamfers removed and then glued together. I've put an end cap on that sticks up about three millimetres and then varnished. You can get some sort of tape that you can put on underwater in Bunnings it's about $20.00 a roll and it stops the holder skidding across the sink. Not perfect but when you're on a budget, it works just fine.
I have a 110 grit and 220 grit stone to do the fast cutting. Diamond stones are also pretty good for that. Have you tried the Suehiro or Shapton 220? The Suehiro is very hard, where the Shapton is quite soft and muddy.
Craftsmen that work with sharp tools for example. Just because a kitchen knife was used in this demonstration does not mean that's the only thing the taught lesson applies to. The shape and details might vary, but the principles stay the same.
I find jigs a bit of a pain to use. I tried the years ago and just preferred whetstones. Also,I don't think you get the consistency on the curves. IMO, whetstones seem to work better. Lastly, you don't get the choice of stones with jigs. I have three 3000 grits stones to choose from. Also, there are a growing number of people wanting to finish on natural stones these days
@@closeaus88 It definitely is not. I do it both ways. A jig is faster and more precise. Freehand is necessary for certain blade shapes or very fine bevel angles on some Japanese blades.
I very rarely use fixed angle for anything because I find in almost all if not all instances a convexed edge works preferably. A convexed kitchen knife will shrug off the cutting medium better than a flat grind with primary bevel. A chopping blade chops better; a whittling knife whittles better and so forth. If you always use a fixed angle on a flat grind your blade will get thicker behind the edge, requiring regrind. Freehand sharpening can accomplish thinning of the secondary and primary bevels as well as the blending of the two in convexity. Fixed angle is a basic science. Freehand is a high art. Just playing devil's advocate here... Long live individual preference!
Hi, I think it depends a lot on the individual. Hyper sharpness can last beyond the first cut but certainly won't last as long as more practical sharpening. I for example became obsessed with sharpness and I don't have a problem admitting that it is an issue for me. Another point I would raise is that I'm trying to get the best out of myself and my knives and I'll also admit to having wrecked several knives along the way. You could also take the view similar to motor racing, the engines in those super fast sports cars are designed to be rebuilt after each race. Hyper sharp may not be practical nor necessary, thankfully for me I don't mind testing the limits of myself and my knives.
@@gilbertngo-ngoc-dong5814 I just published another video "Hyper sharp and beyond" that you won't enjoy much either. I think it does have some purpose. It's just not everyone's cup of tea. I LOVE my hypersharp nakiri. Some will, some won't.
@@robksknifeworks Don't get me wrong Rob. I admire the level of sharpness you can put on your blades, it's good for a video performance and kind of competition with others but as I said, and you agreed, it does not really help in real life kitchen... The fine edge will disappear as soon as you cut anything on a board and you will be left with a sharp but not hyper sharp knife. If you can sharpen a knife, cut some serious material for a while and still shave afterward without touch up, then you become more than interesting. Hope my comment will open some avenues for your future videos. Keep it sharp !
While that "sounds good", it is an old wives tale. Sure, if you pulled metal toward the edge and leave it, that is not great, but a burr is necessary to form and you need to remove it anyway. As a professional, who makes knives on a 72" x 2" grinder, you definitely have times when you run the machine backwards. No problem.
@@dongkhamet1351 Sure it does but I find this method give me better control. I'm one of those people that struggle to walk and chew gum at the same time. One thing at a time and for me it works really well.
@@robksknifeworks from what I saw you were working the edge in both directions. My question was for the OP because my understanding of their statement is that one should only be working the edge on the forward stroke, then raising the blade off the stone ("lift") to return to the starting point, then repeat. Perhaps my understanding of the OP's meaning is mistaken. As for your technique, once more supposing that I have understood correctly, I find that interesting in that in convexity an edge I would tend to lift more on the back stroke. Strokes for folks, I guess! :D
Creating a burr is not essential for getting a sharp knife. A burr is a byproduct of staying too long at sharpening on one side of the knife and not alternating strokes. You can get a sharp knive without creating a burr if you know how. BUT it is for sure easier using the burr method especially for beginners... till it gets to alternating strokes for burr removal.
Personally, I prefer creating a burr unless the knife is just getting a touch up. Maybe not "essential" but eases my mind. Beginners or newbies gain the most probably. Having said that as a knife sharpener to my local market, creating a burr gives me the confidence that my work is not flawed. Perhaps I'm a creature of habit.
I think it depends. A knife in pro hands is often used for a specific job and can get dull in just parts of the knife. Without a burr you can end up with an unevenly sharpened edge without realising. I sharpen a lot of knives, mostly Japanese hand made 1 or 2, and generally prefer to get an even small burr, go through my stones and hone. I like Rob's explanation.
Oh dear-somebody really doesn’t know about knife sharpening - the bear indicates that you are creating an apex, and if you Apex correctly and sharpen from there, the knife will remain sharp much much longer - I suggest you go and look at outdoors55 it’s all very, very simple
The edge/apex of a knife actually gets work or strain hardened (see chatGPT or google), ideally you want to use this harder material to create your new edge as it will stay sharp longer. The process of creating a burr removes (all or some of) this layer of harder metal, which means creating burrs is not the optimal way of sharpening.
I've been sharpening edges for 50 years. I have the skill to sharpen as Rob is showing. it DOES take experience and skill. some of the comments are from folks that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. They can LEARN the skill, but they don't have it yet. As Rob says, if you are not making a burr, you are not going to get it sharp. I have about 100 gouges, maybe 30 planes, 50 chisels 30 or so carving knives and scorps, ETC to keep sharp. I have diamond stones, water stones, CBN wheels (and stones) and buffers and polishers etc. ALL of them can and do work. They sure do a MUCH better job than most / ALL pull thru sharpeners that households have. Those make the knife cut well for a few days, but in the end, slowly destroy the knife. As to jigs? There ARE jigs that do work well. They can do curves very nicely too, contrary to what some comments, But as Rob says, IF you are skilled, in general the jig takes longer to set up. Still it usually can produce a very "professional" looking edge. For myself, I sharpen enough things to have finally gotten a 72x2" belt grinder. With such, burning risk is close to nil. And having buffers, and grits to 2000 and EASY to maintain angles, it makes sharpening extremely fast. (I sharpened 20 knives from poor condition to perfect in less than 1/2 hour. (A group of friends brought their knives to me last weekend) Personally, I think the one thing to help the average home is learning how to use a steel. IF you do learn such a simple process, you can keep your knives MUCH sharper for longer.
Thank you for taking the time to write so much Paul, I really do appreciate it.
If you're trying from UA-cam, you're going to ruin a lot of sharpening materials on both ends. If you're self teaching, be CHEAP. Learn how with garbage. It's unwieldy and horrible but If you can make garbage do what you want, you're on the right track.
I have 400 grit hands so I start there, fine tune on my quads and then polish to a mirror edge on my teeth
@@zacharysherry2910 Wow, that's unique. You could say you were born to sharpen knives. 😁
Great video. Thanks for the guidance on this. I'm going to try your technique of wrapping the fingers around. And greetings from the US.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Michael, I really appreciate it and the compliment. I hope wrapping your fingers around the handle or supporting it makes a good difference for you.
Thanks for the demonstration Rob. I have various grades of machinists stones and I'll give it a go with the missus' kitchen knifes. There's no such thing as too sharp....
You're right. Good luck with it
Thanks for demonstrating. I'm a butcher and used to take my knives to get sharpened professionly. What I didn't like about that was that my my knives would get thinner and thinner. A couple of old time butchers on Facebook suggested I get a multi oil stone and that's what I did. I also got a new knife and I got it razor sharp on the oil stone.
Thank you for your feedback.
Angelolepore do you mean the height of the knife is decreasing, and therefore gets smaller overall??
Not only the length, but the girth as well. I like a heavier knife and i find that hand sharpening works better now@shadyeskimo
Brilliant... I am about to have a go at doing this myself for the first time. This was really helpful, thank you.
That's awesome, take it easy, it's not a race.
Great video. Thanks!
Thanks heaps, glad you liked it
Awesome !!!
Great Explanation and Example!!
Bravo!🙌
Thank you for the compliment and thank you so much for taking the time to write. It's great to get this sort of feed back. Thanks again, Rob
Good technique. Not fussy and very effective.
Thank you. I will say it works well for me.
Meat cutter here, and over 20yrs on sharping knifes. I will grind through 2 knifes a year, that is 6 or 6 1/2" flex or standard. It is what I chose, on neck meat I will use a 6" (5" now) standard that will be a ice pick by than.
Steel clean, Hot water with soap, knifes ect.
I did sub so well see.
Thank you for your subscription William, I really, really do appreciate them. Meat cutters / butchers knives seem to be different kettle of fish compared to sharpening chef and knives for the home kitchen. I have sharpened butchers knives and it never ceases to amaze me how those guys can not only take an edge off in a few hours, within weeks their knives are changing shape.
An excellent demonstration! I think I worked out several things from the demo on what I've been doing wrong and definitely like the explanation on the way to grip the knife so we can get the bevel on the stone right along the blade. I've been using one of those "You beaut easy sharpening" tools, but I have wondered if it worked consistently along the blade. And it's fantastic to see some great Aussie content on UA-cam! Good one, mate!
Thank you. I'm glad you got something out of it.
Great vid, very interesting. I recently got some Shapton water stones and while they are very nice, I'm not very good with them...yet. The puzzling thing is, I used my dads old oil stone that has been around for ever and, I got good results on it. I really don't know why.
I will keep your technique in mind and keep trying.
It can take time. Keep working on it.
how many strokes on the 1000 grit stones and how many strokes 3000 grit stones
It depends a lot on how things when on the 400 grit stone. I often do 100 per side on the 1k and 3k. The 1k stone is important in that you take time on it to make sure that no micro chips have developed or been exposed. I use paper to test the edge. Paper will collect on the edge and it then becomes a bit easier to know exactly where the edge needs more work.
Strokes don't matter if you're developing a burr.
Great informative video
Thank you so much for your compliment and taking time to say so.
What is the reason for wobbling the edge on the strop, to weaken the burr?
I use newsprint on my higher grit stones. So on anything over 5k, I finish the blade on newsprint to hopefully clean up the edge and remove any remaining burr. On the lower grits, I use a hand held leather strop and do the same wobbling action.
What brand stones you prefer ceramic?
I don't have a preferred brand. Currently I have a range of stones including Shapton, Morihei, Imanishi and Naniwa. I have three 12,000 grit stones and feel each one has its place. It depends on the circumstance as to how much mud I want or don't want. How hard or soft I want the stone. Feedback plays a big role.
Thank you for sharing
Thanks for watching! And thanks for commenting
What was the stone holder you used rob? Its a good height
Hi Jason, I made that myself. It's two pieces of Merbau decking timber with the chamfers removed and then glued together. I've put an end cap on that sticks up about three millimetres and then varnished. You can get some sort of tape that you can put on underwater in Bunnings it's about $20.00 a roll and it stops the holder skidding across the sink. Not perfect but when you're on a budget, it works just fine.
Nice video! Good info!
Thanks heaps
thanks mate spot on
Thank you mate. Great to receive remarks like this. Have a great weekend.
I reckon you'd love a good diamond stone, so fast, less strokes, so less error as well
I have a 110 grit and 220 grit stone to do the fast cutting. Diamond stones are also pretty good for that. Have you tried the Suehiro or Shapton 220? The Suehiro is very hard, where the Shapton is quite soft and muddy.
@@robksknifeworks no only tried FMT diamond stones
Good on ya, mate ! ☆
Thanks mate.😁
Now I have to find two Australian coins off ebay. Thanks for that mate.😂😅
Dreadfully sorry for that mate. Hope I can make it up to you one day 😂😂😂
Very nice, if I had the patience to sharpen "that Hyper sharp", I probably would but who needs it that sharp any way?
Thanks for the video.
Same thing my brothers say. Why that sharp? Why does a dog lick his okd fella? Cause he can 😂😂😂 thanks for watching.
@@robksknifeworkshaha brilliant!
Me
Craftsmen that work with sharp tools for example. Just because a kitchen knife was used in this demonstration does not mean that's the only thing the taught lesson applies to. The shape and details might vary, but the principles stay the same.
Nice video Mr.Rob. Would like to see you sharpen a real dundee knife
Thank you MajorSublime. I wish i had a real Dundee knife to sharpen. However, I'll keep my eye open for one. 😊
Why not just use a jig? Exact angles, and more perfect edges?
I find jigs a bit of a pain to use. I tried the years ago and just preferred whetstones. Also,I don't think you get the consistency on the curves. IMO, whetstones seem to work better. Lastly, you don't get the choice of stones with jigs. I have three 3000 grits stones to choose from. Also, there are a growing number of people wanting to finish on natural stones these days
great video - hands on information 👍
freehand sharpening is also so much faster
@@closeaus88 It definitely is not. I do it both ways. A jig is faster and more precise. Freehand is necessary for certain blade shapes or very fine bevel angles on some Japanese blades.
I very rarely use fixed angle for anything because I find in almost all if not all instances a convexed edge works preferably. A convexed kitchen knife will shrug off the cutting medium better than a flat grind with primary bevel. A chopping blade chops better; a whittling knife whittles better and so forth.
If you always use a fixed angle on a flat grind your blade will get thicker behind the edge, requiring regrind.
Freehand sharpening can accomplish thinning of the secondary and primary bevels as well as the blending of the two in convexity.
Fixed angle is a basic science.
Freehand is a high art.
Just playing devil's advocate here...
Long live individual preference!
I wonder sometimes if the sharpening experts realise that hyper sharpness will not last past the first cut. Is that for real life use ?
Hi, I think it depends a lot on the individual. Hyper sharpness can last beyond the first cut but certainly won't last as long as more practical sharpening. I for example became obsessed with sharpness and I don't have a problem admitting that it is an issue for me. Another point I would raise is that I'm trying to get the best out of myself and my knives and I'll also admit to having wrecked several knives along the way. You could also take the view similar to motor racing, the engines in those super fast sports cars are designed to be rebuilt after each race.
Hyper sharp may not be practical nor necessary, thankfully for me I don't mind testing the limits of myself and my knives.
@@robksknifeworks Ok, you then agree it's not for real life use... It's like the world championship of egg throwing/catching. Good video though
@@gilbertngo-ngoc-dong5814 😁
@@gilbertngo-ngoc-dong5814 I just published another video "Hyper sharp and beyond" that you won't enjoy much either. I think it does have some purpose. It's just not everyone's cup of tea. I LOVE my hypersharp nakiri. Some will, some won't.
@@robksknifeworks Don't get me wrong Rob. I admire the level of sharpness you can put on your blades, it's good for a video performance and kind of competition with others but as I said, and you agreed, it does not really help in real life kitchen... The fine edge will disappear as soon as you cut anything on a board and you will be left with a sharp but not hyper sharp knife. If you can sharpen a knife, cut some serious material for a while and still shave afterward without touch up, then you become more than interesting. Hope my comment will open some avenues for your future videos. Keep it sharp !
dissagree for the reason on the back swing you are taking the edge off push forward and dont sharpen backwards
I'm not actually sharpening backwards. I'm setting up for the next stroke. It works teally well for me.
While that "sounds good", it is an old wives tale. Sure, if you pulled metal toward the edge and leave it, that is not great, but a burr is necessary to form and you need to remove it anyway. As a professional, who makes knives on a 72" x 2" grinder, you definitely have times when you run the machine backwards. No problem.
*Newsflash...This is not how Pro's sharpen knives*
Never claimed to be a pro and despite that, it works well for me. Perhaps you could show us on your channel?
push forward lift the blade and start again
Prefer my method of lowering the blade on the push. For the tip, I'm starting to use much smaller strokes to maintain better consistency.
Why lift? Abrasion occurs in both directions.
@@dongkhamet1351 Sure it does but I find this method give me better control. I'm one of those people that struggle to walk and chew gum at the same time. One thing at a time and for me it works really well.
@@robksknifeworks from what I saw you were working the edge in both directions.
My question was for the OP because my understanding of their statement is that one should only be working the edge on the forward stroke, then raising the blade off the stone ("lift") to return to the starting point, then repeat. Perhaps my understanding of the OP's meaning is mistaken.
As for your technique, once more supposing that I have understood correctly, I find that interesting in that in convexity an edge I would tend to lift more on the back stroke.
Strokes for folks, I guess! :D
If you can't shave with it I highly doubt it's Hyper Sharp.
You can shave with it.
Creating a burr is not essential for getting a sharp knife. A burr is a byproduct of staying too long at sharpening on one side of the knife and not alternating strokes. You can get a sharp knive without creating a burr if you know how. BUT it is for sure easier using the burr method especially for beginners... till it gets to alternating strokes for burr removal.
Personally, I prefer creating a burr unless the knife is just getting a touch up. Maybe not "essential" but eases my mind. Beginners or newbies gain the most probably. Having said that as a knife sharpener to my local market, creating a burr gives me the confidence that my work is not flawed. Perhaps I'm a creature of habit.
I think it depends. A knife in pro hands is often used for a specific job and can get dull in just parts of the knife. Without a burr you can end up with an unevenly sharpened edge without realising. I sharpen a lot of knives, mostly Japanese hand made 1 or 2, and generally prefer to get an even small burr, go through my stones and hone. I like Rob's explanation.
Oh dear-somebody really doesn’t know about knife sharpening - the bear indicates that you are creating an apex, and if you Apex correctly and sharpen from there, the knife will remain sharp much much longer - I suggest you go and look at outdoors55 it’s all very, very simple
The edge/apex of a knife actually gets work or strain hardened (see chatGPT or google), ideally you want to use this harder material to create your new edge as it will stay sharp longer. The process of creating a burr removes (all or some of) this layer of harder metal, which means creating burrs is not the optimal way of sharpening.
@@neutraloptions What a bullshit
.