All of these videos have been really helpful in reaffirming that my Fists of Havoc Thunderlord Titan is still the #1 meta pick for any boss encounter, thank you so much!
@@sweatydjack4397 not sure if you're trolling or not, but i thought i might as well tell you, that calling our beloved relic a yapper is all in good fun and we love watching him do it :)
The fact that Shadebinder's only good build for its entire existence has been Osmio Turret Spam and then Prismatic comes out and spams turrets even better frustrates me. They reworked Stasis as a subclass and it's STILL ass. Like c'mon man Ice Wizard is such a cool vibe I wish it was better
my favorite shadebinder build is osmiomancy without turrets. infinite coldsnap grenade spam, glacial harvest and iceflare bolts on top make it rly hard to die. conditional finality goes great with it
Nearly all of its aspects are built with PvP as the main focus. Thats a big part of the issue with Shadebinder in PvE. The melee is a really good example of this. It has a long animation, low velocity and very little aim assistance. Amongst a few other bits. But it instantly freezes the target. This is crazy good in PvP for shutting down shotties and other aggressive players, it's worthy of the trade-offs and difficulty. But it doesn't really translate to being good in PvE, the reward isn't the same. From the ground up it's concept and design is focused on PvP niches. Shadebinder is just built to be an absolute monster in competitive. Which doesn't exactly transition to being good in PvE. It'd benefit from just having another aspect that is designed to be a bit more helpful in PvE than PvP, another super that's more PvE/damage orientated, and another melee with a different design goal. I don't think complete reworks would really work very well, despite it needing something on that level at the moment. Sure buffs to the numbers would be great, so would tacking on extra perks here and there for the benefit of PvE. But complete reworks to functionality could end up killing it in PvP and it's uniqueness there, so I don't think that's the answer. And it still wouldn't solve the issue. Other than that, stasis needs buffs in general. The last round of buffs did help somewhat, but they still need a bit more. Although honestly, I'd say arc is in greater need now. They're all so mediocre in PvP and PvE they're almost forgotten about when discussing the best and the worst subclasses. A weird limbo where they're just so incredibly mediocre, yet up until recently no one spoke about them. It's as if they're invisible.
I was stacking 3x resistances with The Stag, but they changed the damage resistance fragment to need frost armour. This likely gutted the build since I was using turrets and ice flare, but I haven’t used the build since the release of Final Shape
I ran a build with Monte Carlo bayonet and karnsteins, you get 2.3x melee damage on frozen targets so you have a bit of burst melee damage with the bayonet and pretty good survivability with resto ×2 and frost armor combined, but it's still not worth it over warlock builds in the vast majority of scenarios
'spose I should talk about how I usually run it. Widow's Silk/Whirling Maelstrom/Assassin's Cowl. Maelstrom means you can use your tangles extremely aggressively while still having them available to get free grapples from (and their tendency to chase enemies down makes them outright more helpful than a static grapple tangle in this regard). Grapple melee procs Cowl to keep you alive. Use orbs for Woven Mail and Recuperation for additional survivability. I basically ran solely this during S22 when the artifact increased tangle damage and printed a bunch of ammo from tangles. Tried it again during ITL and it held up fine despite the weaker artifact support. Haven't revisited for TFS because the new toys are so good, but don't see any reason it would be worse than it was. Heal Clip is also a much stronger perk than it used to be, so you could probably also just use that if Cowl isn't your bag--which probably means Cyrtarachne for the DR instead. idk I just think it's really easy to underestimate Whirling Maelstrom. I compare it to Witherhoard a lot--it's a substantial AOE damage over time effect that requires minimal commitment in terms of action economy, so you can either go do something else while it cleans up behind you, or you can use it to supplement your guns against minibosses and the like (or, again, just grapple melee off it for free).
I honestly wish they made more supers like chaos reach. Like an in-between of a roaming and pop super. Like imagine strand hunter just being able to lob strand tangles constantly as one of their supers. And if you end the super early above 10% of your super bar you consume the rest of your super but you throw out 1-10 tangles based on how much super energy you have left. If you let the entire super run you'll end up throwing 18 tangles but they will take much longer than ending the super early.
Your analysis is of course amazing and much needed but I also really appreciate your use of tiers and ratings. *Actually* utilizing all tiers and the full 1-10 ratings. It’s so much more accurate and nuanced.
Time to comfortably sit in front of my screen and find out wether stasis subclasses are in d tier or if a whole entire new tier even further down below was created for them given how awful they are
unrelated to everything but i gotta say it, I'm so thankful that bungie didn't invest anything into pvp and focused more in the pve, imagine if they wasted the entire ip to turn it into a competitive shooter like overwatch is doing
@@luk4aaaaAegis was in the previous subclass tier list video with Saltagreppo and Above, but Above’s newest subclass tier list video has Salt and Mactics instead
@@Googahgee is it known for sure that he left or was excluded or is it just a case of Aegis didn't want to be in it or was already working on this video?
Imagine if Lightning Surge was remotely close to Consecration considering it takes the exact same investment (aspect + strand triple charge melee + synthos). I know jolt doesn't inherit buffs, but even the base ability is just so pathetic against anything that isnt faceroll easy. And to think that they decided Consecration needed a 20% buff to its ignition when they added it to prismatic, but they looked at Lightning Surge and said "yeah that's fine" somehow.
I can guarantee the reason they didn’t buff it was PvP. PvP balancing has ruined the fun of subclasses for so long its frustrating asf. Doesn’t seem likely now but it they ever did seperate PvE and PvP sandboxes to the abilities/supers could be tuned separately for each. The game would improve ✨meteorically✨ I cannot emphasise that enough (especially PvE). Case and point arc warlock and titan are two what you might call PvP classes. They are only ok in the hands of a great player in PvE but because they’ve got some alright PvP viability that most players can take advantage of, they’ll never get the buffs they need because they’re scared of causing issues for PvP. Which sucks as a PvE main.
@@ross6789 nah, theyve been doing pvp specific balance changes for a while now and the only reason its good in pvp is because of the nature of it being a teleport, and also it being bugged so it can insta kill. Like how blink is only used in pvp and not pve. I do agree that completely seperating the sandboxes would be amazing though!
Notice Titans are the worst in every element except Strand and barely Solar, as well as having nothing in S tier. I’m glad videos like these exist to debunk the “Titan = easy mode” hoax that’s taken over the casual side of the community.
It’s been bothering me since final shape dropped that they moved weapons of light off of base bubble onto helm of saint 14 while adding lingering radiant upon leaving a well for 8s when well was already bubble but viable. This entire update felt like “stop it’s already dead” when the topic is bubble. Also another problem with prism titan that I don’t think you mentioned is that a big selling point of it is thruster, and all of the Titan class time perks pretty much suck except synthos, considering consecration knockout is the only endgame viable prismatic Titan loadout. Most of the perks also require a barricade, so having thruster feels counterproductive
Something to note for prismatic titan, you can weaken with Second Chance shield toss. You do get two charges, so I think that’s rather spammable. Not sure if you would think the exotic commitment is truly worth the trade off or not.
As a hunter I'm a bit salty with the rankings, and I'd like to mention some more specific builds which are not widely known about. I just cannot agree with strand hunter being worse than stasis, no way in hell. Cyrtarachne woven mail spam literally has infinite uptime thanks to whirling maelstrom, and that thing pretty much automatically clears rooms for you, and you can grapple on them to refresh woven mail and spam rockets with a shit ton of reloads. That damage reduction and insane movement thanks to grapple uptime makes it the second strongest offensive hunter subclass in GMs besides prismatic imo (I'm not taking about arc or prismatic melee builds, just ranged). For stasis, I'm really glad that someone has finally recognized the power that it holds, however I was recently blown away by the changes to Touch of Winter Coldsnap grenades, which now infinitely create duplicates of themselves upon finding an enemy, creating larger and larger stasis crystals. With Frostees the uptime on them is nearly 100% thanks to whisper of shards, and while it may not be as powerful when it comes to frost armor (it has none if you use winter's shroud tho), it's still an extremely powerful offensive build which kinda makes stasis titan obsolete in terms of crystal shattering. Finally, a note from former stasis, former strand, now prismatic hunter main. Spirit of Inmost Light + Cyrtarachne is ridiculous. It has pretty much the same gameplay loop as strand hunter, given that both grapple and strand melee are the best abilities for HOIL spam, but instead of whirling maelstrom it features GPG, which may be harder to get but the payoff is also quite worth it. It also refreshes your woven mail, you get it from cancelling your grapple, you also refresh it from the tangles which you leave, you can also apply sever with threaded spike which you didn't mention. Playing with a melee build is a lot more optimal, it is a lot stronger and all, but it's not like everyone is skillful enough to survive with it in higher levels, especially not solo, so this ranged build makes GMs and non-boss encounters in dungeons and raids very easy. It's also extremely fun.
Don't think Aegis really playing around with strand hunter + cyrtarachne. And that build carrying me too. And I finally got my hoil+cyrtarachne last week after farming it for sooooo long
@@eiji2B saaaame man, it took me ages to get but I'm so happy with it. Already nearly solo'd the last GM, the boss died one second later than me and it didn't count. I believe ATP (All The Players) was the first to use this build to solo massive amount of GMs and even made a detailed guide on that.
@@Aohira6538it’s just that stasis hunter has more going for it over all, yes strand hunter is fun and grapple reloads are good, but stasis has access to impetus, a good damage super, pairs better with burst damage weapons like 4th horseman, and cascade bns edge transit, and shatter damage, not saying strand is bad, but from just the damage section it’s significantly stronger
I was gonna argue that Solar Hunter is fantastic for solo dungeons due to have access to Assassin's Cowl Knife Trick spam into a Nighthawk swap for damage, but then I realised that Prismatic Hunter eclipsed the invisibility functionality too. DAMN they should have balanced Prismatic Hunter so much better.
Yeah I think no matter what as good as prismatic is all Solar subclasses across the board are at least A tier by having access to heal nades and other ways to proc restoration, ways to proc radiant, and some of the better supers in the game
Song of Flame is an extremely strong damage super, not because of it's damage, but because with a reconstruction rocket launcher like Apex or Solstice Crowning Duologue, you can mix rocket shots in between each loop of grenade and melee. This creates a very high damage loop of grenade, melee, rocket that melts bosses, especially with surges and things to boost ignition damage
This line of thinking is similar to what people thought when Dragon's Breath first released, and the same reason why many people think Apotheosis Veil is a competitive damage option in optimized environments. In reality, high APM or high ability usage rate does not actually equal high DPS all the time, especially when you consider that Song of Flame's abilities (both snap and wisp) do very little damage compared to other high burst damage supers, and that the time window between rocket activations is better spent on a higher damage component.
@@TheAegisRelic Aztecross recently made a video showing off all super's and their damage, Song of Flame was consistently the one of the highest base damage super aside from Twilight Arsenal, and that was just using the melee component of Song of Flame, no weapons Adding in weapons like rockets bolsters the damage even more, allowing for massive damage against bosses Sure it isn't consistent for all bosses, but for bosses it does work on, it carries
Aegis, you and I couldn't be FARTHER apart in how we play Destiny (I'm Destiny Dad age and only get worse every day lol) and yet, I'll watch and be thoroughly entertained by every single video you make. I also appreciate how you cover things. It'd be so easy to just simply say "Behemoth sucks atm😢" but you relay things in such a way that even things at the bottom of lists still seem approachable without just complaining about everything. It's appreciated. Continue to kill it 💪
GOD DAMN your channel has grown since I last checked the sub count. So glad youre getting the recognition you deserve. Ive been spreading your gospel to my friends and randoms on lfgs for a while now and finally people here and there actually already know about your vids!
I do think the best use case for Shadebinder these days is going all-in on frost armor with iceflare bolt and glacial harvest since prismatic warlock is just better turret class in all scenarios. Since x8 frost armor gives more DR than woven mail and can be refreshed by just freezing enemies, as well as giving a small amount of health per share, it makes Shadebinder a lot healthier in stuff like GMs. I’ve been using whisper of rime, conduction, bonds, and rending with bold endings and flexing between still hunt or winterbite depending on the content difficulty. While obviously not good for damage scenarios, it’s surprisingly good in GMs, playing almost how I wish Broodweaver played if it wasn’t squishy as can be.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Woven Mail is 45% damage reduction, while x5 frost armor is 25,5% and x8 is 36%. As a hunter I can barely feel even fully stacked one tbh, and I'm a lot more used to spamming my duskfields offensively rather than defensively. I definitely do agree with you that just using the grenade with a harvest aspect is a lot more fun and instantly more rewarding than the Bleak Watcher loop. On hunter these grenades nuke with touch of winter after the buffs, and it may even rival renewal grasps in terms of endgame viability, which certainly remains to be tested.
@@Aohira6538 ah, could’ve sworn they nerfed it and buffed sever in a patch awhile ago. In any case, it’s a lot easier to get and maintain frost armor on Shadebinder than it is to maintain woven mail on Broodweaver in hard content. Not to mention weavewalk has anti synergy with the theoretically best Broodweaver exotic in Mataiodoxia
Worth noting that the actual Star-Eater scales still have unnerfed super regen for Blade barrage (which is still one of the top DPS supers). Having access to a great damage super with great uptime, Healing nades + Empyraen, Neutral game handling/reload buff for rotations, and radiant on-demand with fast recharging knives still makes Gunslinger **atleast B-tier** in my opinion. Sure build/ability variety sucks, but Gunslinger still is rock solid DPS and okay survivability.
@@TheAegisRelic Celestial is slightly worse total. Celestial does 656522 and with courage would be 656522*1.1=722175. BB w/ star-eater is 737147. Though idk if your sheet accounts for the extra damage goldy gets when shooting fast.
@@TheAegisRelic As the other person said, BB has been higher damage than CNH goldie as far as any test that i've seen. In the end they are close enough to the point where they are situational. Also i believe BB even beats out goldie in burst in scenarios where you can't pre-pop Goldie. The other thing not talked about are the healing differences. A gunslinger on star eaters gets a full heal on cast. Gunslinger also gets healing nades which flat out beat anything prismatic can heal with (Transcendence DR good though). Prismatic actually doesn't have a way to heal outside melee range which feels terrible in my experience. Stylish executioner is overhyped as alot of in-air projectiles still hit you and ground DoTs are gonna still hit you. Healing grenades are busted to say the least, even with resto x1.
Great video buddy. The fact that you can do this while in school and balance your social life, is astonishing. Not to bash other creators butttt, this is real homemade content here.
15:55 even in overpopulated crowd of arc soul bleak watcher warlocks, contraverse will always be my go to goat. First ever wasted 0 build I made, always fun to break it out now and then. Quality list and vid! Loved the renewed point system.
I think the Stasis crystal interaction with diamond lance and consecration will help with build viability. Lances breaking crystals specifically would be really nice with headstone weapons. That change was supposed to launch with the final shape (it was in the patch notes even) but it just didnt happen, and to my knowledge bungie hasn't mentioned it. Hopefully they get around to it soon. Great video as always pookie
Ive been using Red Death's catalyst to proc Restoration x2 on Titan and use Lorely and healing nades on Sunbreaker as well as empyrean/benevolence to keep my timer of restoration x2 constantly going. I went into expert Onslaught the other day and not only was I able to not die once, but from the moment I had restoration x2 timer going during the first wave it never once ran out the entire duration of the 50 waves. Thats restoration x2 going for about an hour and all it requires to keep up is activating my barricade or throwing my grenade down no killes required after the first couple to initially proc resto x2
Appreciate the effort that went into this. Naturally there are some differing opinions on the placements but I largely agree. I personally wouldn´t place Prismatic Hunter in S-Tier if the Prismatic Titan and Warlock are not there as well. Purely from an Endgame perspective I don´t see a lot of differences between these Classes when I am playing them, especially now with the Super Buffs for Titan. In my opinion you hyped the Prisma Hunter too much here based on theoretical performance. I wouldn´t put Liar CB up as an Endgame Build because it requires a repetetive setup that is slow and not worth it in anything where there aren´t many enemies that die quickly to Melee or do too much damage while you are stacking Buffs. Most of the time playing a different build is more effective and less stressful. This has been the thing with Liars since it came out and why nobody is talking about it after the hype dies. Syntho Grapple Melee is way too situational in the same way that Titan Grapple Melee is. I don´t see the use of it for anything outside of specific bosses with Ads around. I feel like this is skewing the Ranking a bit. Threaded Spectre is probably the Aspect I hate the most because it is so damn useless in harder content. It increases Dodge Regen and holds for a second, especially with Ads that just run up to it and cause it to explode. Renewal and Cyrtarachne are okay, but the uptime is pretty bad. Inmost Light and Crytrachne is better and more versatile, espeically with Ergo Sum. Survivability on Prismatic Hunter is actually my biggest gripe with it because there is no easy access to it for harder content. CB Healing sucks when you first have to run into a group to get healing which in turn can get you killed faster. Most people are not using it for a reason. Stylish costs a lot of offensive capabilities since it is only good for that moment that you need Invis. I found myself switching to Ascension for Amplified and Jolt. You should add Propulsion to Prismatic Titan Builds. Also, Assassin+Syntho is available for Titans and brings Survivability and Offense to another Level. That stuff is so much more powerful than Combination Blow Liars. I can run any conent just using Consecration with that.
I'm going to have to double check because I'm uncertain as to if it is actually working but I *think* spirit of synthoceps buffs Glacial Quake's Light Attack as if it was a melee. From running the consecration build with Quake on (great for add clear, dark meter, facet of purpose gives frost armor which lasts up to 9s for the artifact mod that boosts melees) Quake light attacks do activate Spirit of the Assassin and they seem to be doing a frankly stupid amount of damage (2 shotting GM Liminality's Lucent Wizard from full health doesn't seem normal). If you're slightly off the ground you can spam the light attacks pretty fast as well. I doubt it's particularly amazing for boss dps but if it is working like that might be a point to consider in its favour slightly.
Can confirm it is buffing glacial quake. Against calus it does 33642 at base, with spirit of synthos it goes up to 89,152 (exactly 2.65x buff from synthos). Base synthos also buffs by 2.65x. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be that good at dps. I was able to get 10 melees off in about 9.5s (timer started the moment I popped super and ended once I could shoot weapons again). Scaling the syntho value from calus to raid, 89152 * 45.7431/44.5 = 91643 per melee attack. 10 melees over 9.5s results in 91643*10/9.5 = 96,466 dps. Aegis's sheet has tractor debuff so it would go to 96,466*1.3 = 125,406 dps which is below a lot of entries. I know it's still a great option in gms, I've seen specialhero often run it for gm speedruns and spam the light attack to melt chunky targets. edit: glacial quake light attack is literally just a melee. This means it gets a 50% boost from knockout, full benefit from wormgod's/synthos, etc. On riven with synthos+knockout I hit for 137,463. Using this new number dps would be 137463 * 1.3 * 10/9.5=188,108 dps. Wormgod's x5 stacks is a 3.75x multiplier instead of synthos 2.65x so wormgod's simulated dps would be 188,108 * 3.75/2.65 = 266,190 dps. Whole lot of yapp to say it's not great for dps, but can hit surprisingly hard per attack for stuff like gms.
Prismatic has a fun ability-loop build, but you have to get HoIL and Armamentarium in your Exotic Class item, it's really useful since you can have 3x Melee charges, 2x grenade charges and Thruster. Consecration (obviously) and maybe Drengr's Leash or Diamond Lance, you can spam abilities pretty nicely and build trans energy but even if you don't have that combo, ordinary HoIL does it's job. A 20% DMG to all abilities is nice
probably a better case for strand titan, but Solar Titan or any titan subclass can get access to Resto x2 with the Stronghold exotic, rlly carried me through a lot of solo content
Pretty disappointed with the limited testing of Prismatic Warlock builds in this list. Buddy spam is easily one of the weaker popular Prismatic Warlock builds out there, no mention of Mataiodoxia needle spam to clear entire rooms, etc.
I will certainly try out other builds when I have time, but all of the other builds I've seen don't really seem to be dominating the sandbox in the same way that titan and hunter builds have. I'd love to see some footage from a GM of people using these builds you mention, since on paper they don't particularly sound very potent - Synthoceps Lightning Surge, for example, is pretty underwhelming, which leaves me concerned about the other builds mentioned alongside it.
Fantastic! Some things i think are worth mentioning you didn't cover; Solar hunter technically ALSO has still hunt to pair w/ nighthawk goldie for damage; this changes nothing abt its viability because prismatic hunter still exists Arc titan could be argued to have a 1 in mobility because of tcrash + ballistic slam in jumping puzzles/long distances; this also changes nothing in its viability Euphony threadling builds might be worth mentioning on Strand warlock? While the tierlist is mainly focused on general gameplay, there are some endgame uses outside of that, but this is more speedrun stuff (arc and prismatic titan also gets thruster- I know there's some uses it has in skating tech, but it's still not really anything) I guess titans also have lion's sword skating? Lastly, glacier nade might be worth mentioning for OOBing? And i fully agree with shiver strike not being considered a movement option lol
Still Hunt works with Nighthawk even when you're not on Golden Gun :P Yeah I suppose Euphony might have some utility with those, 2 crits for 3 threadlings isn't horrible I wouldn't really consider "titan skating" a unique tech in the same way I didn't add burst glide warlock skating
I’m a titan main and prismatic titan can definitely hit some solid dps when using twilight arsenal , transcendence, then doing the still hunt into auto loading rocket loop while wearing hazardous propulsion exodus rockets. Most ive seen solo damage for 1 phase of the witness was around 5.6 million which is crazy for a titan. And I’m sure using class item with spirit of star eater will make it a bit more. But tbh I wish it just had more survivability like banner of war. If I could use that and a grapple on prismatic I would probably be willing to give up consecration. Don’t get me wrong, knock out with mods that restore health when you pick up an orb and certain armor charge buffs definitely help, but I feel unkillable when I run banner of war titan with synthoceps grapple melee and a 1,2 punch shotgun
Aegis what would you recommend for a stasis rework? This whole frost armor change feels so bad man. Stasis felt amazing back with well mods and the tracking armor mod so maybe add intrinsic tracking? I just want stasis to feel good again but its such a chore now to keep up frost armor and the healing is laughable. Love the content btw
This list really reaffirmed my belief on how bad balancing is currently. A combined half of the subs is D or C. IMO this means they are straight up awful of technically OK, but so lackluster compared to better options that you'd never use them outside of the easiest content. And then there is now one more sub in S, which IMHO is also bad since that means they are game-warpingly good to the point they push other options from being used. Sandbox is really in need of serious retuning.
i got a renewal/crytarachne that started as a meme build, but is actually goated for GM content. running it with gunpowder gamble makes it really strong
great list, i think only thing i’d mention is the necrotic/inmost + claws prismatic lock build as a good variety build, good sustain in devour or blessing, ruin makes the ignition good for clearing with bleak watchers, high ability uptime, transcendent/song of flame melee spam n still pretty viable in end game for champ burning probably not enough to bump it to S but worth a mention
Yeah a lot of people seem to be dissatisfied with my comments on Prismatic warlock builds and in response they bring up builds which are essentially the same core abilities except with a different exotic class item combination, which I think is missing my point a little
I will very often bring strand Hunter into roam content over other sub classes because grapple canceling giving you nearly infinite grapples that let you clear packs of enemies and move on to the next so quickly, leaving behind a whirling maelstrom to clean up any stragglers, use cowl to go invis and heal and sever from threaded spike on anything scary. I think it's the best general use movement in the game for just playing the game normally. After every encounter in salvations edge I swap to strand if I'm not already on it just to get through all the jumping puzzles. It might not be the best subclass in the game but I think it's definitely the funnest to play with the hyper mobile playstyle
I disagree with some of your build scoring, personally I think prismatic warlock should have a slight higher score and be in S. It might not clear rooms as fast as prismatic hunter or titan but it locks down rooms better than pretty much any other class with how fast your grenade comes back, having three or four stasis turrets at once pretty much nothing in a room can move. (I do understand from your point of view being a speed runner that just blowing everything up is better but from a broader sense cc can be just as strong) I’d be interested in a vid from you about how you would fix some of the bottom classes Overall a great vid tho!
The thing he mentioned though that keeps it out of S tier (and I say this as a warlock player), is the lack of builds. Yes, getaway artist builds are cc masters and hold their own, outside of that, most other builds are lacking in one area or another for endgame content. They aren’t bad by any means, but just more limited.
I understand that but my point is he gave prismatic warlock a 6 for builds becuz its lacking in variety but he gave titan a 9 which has arguably less variety but be cuz it blows things up it’s a 9 and not a 6. Again not he’s wrong or anything, just saying that in a broader sense that unless your a speed runner I think prismatic warlock is S tier. But I understand that this list is made with the mentality of a speed runner tho so I still like the list! 😁
I will definitely try more Prismatic builds out later this season when I have more time, but my preliminary thoughts are represented in this tier list for now. As always on this channel, I am open to changing things and moving them up or down depending on patch changes and my sentiments on how strong options are in the sandbox.
I will say build variety isn’t the best on prismatic warlock, but I don’t think getaway is the best build for that subclass. Running a star eater + inmost light (or necrotic when it gets fixed with devour) setup with storm grenade, needle, and phoenix dive with hellion and devour has been disgusting in end game content, especially the master raid and GMs. Having access to a majority of the elemental debuffs when running facet of dominance can stack some crazy dot damage that adds up quick, and is also particularly good for solo flawless dungeon dps. So while I don’t think builds get too vastly different, that one does so much and is so strong that I think it’s in contention for S tier, even if it’s on the lower end
Can you make a video about the best class item combos for endgame content to farm for? Maybe also go into some fitting builds that ultilize the class item roll to the fullest. I know that Syntho innermost light on titan is amazing, but not many more than that. I think you could clear up a lot, since there are some strong combinations that are mostly great, but not for endgame PvE. Thanks!
I think you forgot that Ward of Dawn no longer gives the damage buff unless you're wearing Helm of Saint-14, unless I'm mistaken and you just assumed everyone would know to swap.
For prismatic warlock I think mataiodoxia is the strongest exotic you can play which makes it even better than its already is. It's certainly one of the best in the game regarding champs, because you have it all. Needles for barrier and suspend for add clear and roomcontrole, bleek watcher for unstop and overload. Combined with unstop and indept kindness you are a force to be reckoned with. And Prismatic which the Meele even stronger. The Meele spam which makes the needles with this exotic actually pretty OP
I know remewal grasp is super good, but hunters coldsnap is also something to consider. I run it with a foetracer build and you always have a grenade up and dish serious crowd control and damage. Both are super good, i love the stasis changes that came with the final shape
Something to add to your arc warlock eval, two of arc warlock's most powerful builds (karnstein slide melees and arc soul spam) are outdone by a mile by prismatic warlock
Love your vids, good tierlist overall and I know you're mainly talking from a speedrun perspective. However, strand titan being only 1 point above and even 1 point below stasis titan and void warlock respectively in the survivability category is way off imo. Woven plus banner is not only very good, you also have to consider how easy it is to keep up. If you're doing boss dmg and there are no adds around devour won't be doing anything for your health, while banner and woven will be. Void hunter having 8 makes sense, but as soon as you start shooting invis is gone. How it is used should and obtained should matter more than just what is does in terms of raw numbers imo. Besides primatic subclasses and solar warlock, strand titan has the best survivability in the game when actually doing something and deserves at least a 7 for that category imo.
I'll definitely reevaluate scoring next season (this is a first draft after all), but one of my lowkey problems I mentioned about Banner that I maybe understated is its uptime nerfs, it really doesn't feel like you can go into damage with a full 30s almost at all any more, so that's a little rough, but your comments definitely have some merit
I'm just amazed that they added spirit of star eatters and proceeded to give titans and warlock a super that ends up doing over a million damage and when used with it and just didn't buff other supers to match. And now hunter supers are just so much less damage
A very strong sustained and survival/ad clear duo is void hunter with Omni and then stasis titan with hoarfrost-Z. Pretty cool synergy’s can be done with these two classes
I've been telling all of my friends that Stasis EVERYTHING needs help. When I read the first wave of changes pre TFS, i knew it wouldn't move the needle. And then the next wave of changes came out before the prismatic reveal, and i knew then it still wouldn't be enough. Stasis and Arc both need massive overhauls. Im thinking reverting them to some pre nerfed states, like Beyond Light levels of potency for Stasis and pre nerf levels of Season of Plunder for Arc. Thats what its going to take to make those classes good again.
Would it be possible to get the ergo sum roll tier list added to the spreadsheet? I’ve watched the video but it’d be nice to have a graphic to refer to, to quickly check what frames you should get with which rolls. 💜
I still love running doom fang Pauldrons in legend onslaught and luminality gm. I can't deny that I am setting myself up for a greater challenge. Hopefully these next exotic armor buffs help these underperformed Subclasses
Never played anything but hunter but prismatic warlock made me really wanna try it. I can't see myself picking strand titan over it for sure and to me when looking from outside, they're on different tiers
just wanted to put one thing forward though it doesnt really affect the tierlist vesper prismatic warlock is also kind of a valid option if we're talking build variety, this does require u to put on stormtrance so yea big negative in damage department but vesper tho not as spammy as arc still has very high uptime where u will definitely be casting your second rift before the first runs out, and its imo an upgrade from normal arc build cause devour, better grenades with the transendence nades and vortex, helion is also a direct upgrade from arc soul where arc does less dmg even with an amplified soul, for a last bit ergo sum with arc conductor also works really well here since u can guard with sword to get close to enemies, place rift, then easily ad clear with your sword with minimum risk since everyone with sword range will also be blinded by your rift
I would have put Arc Warlock in C or B. I'm always happy to see one on my team. I'd not put it tied with Arc Titan, which I'm in full agreement with you on.
![[FREE] GobacK beats - "NO MISTAKES" | Free Type Beat 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bGFHy-XJIgA/mqdefault.jpg)
This guy is carrying 80% of the metagame resources at this point.
Nah that's DIM
@shirosatsuma4946 wrong
@@EreptileDysfunction nope
@@shirosatsuma4946 there is DIM and then there is HIM
@@ink6176 Dim rhymes with him, Aegis doesn't.
Pete Parsons car tier list when?
I deadass need to see this
It would be f-ing Golden to see him call trash every one of his cars 😭 then submit it as Movie of the week to bungie 😭
Luckyy did a video on it
All of these videos have been really helpful in reaffirming that my Fists of Havoc Thunderlord Titan is still the #1 meta pick for any boss encounter, thank you so much!
Based
chaos reach can easily kill one third of a champion, if that doesn't make arc warlock deserving of S tier then idk
Can't Goldie just 1 shot them?
@@longps9528you missed… never mind.
@@drxdrgaming i know i know i missed the joke.
@@longps9528least restarted aegis viewer
@@Zarrakon idk if this comment is a troll 💀
Titan here, just started the video and just in time. I need a good cathartic cry.
Realest comment here
the yappening has struck once more, see you in 50 min
Wya?
@@PandismLive looked up some stuff while watching, done now, satisfied as always, 10/10
You need the 60 second tik tok bait vids huh?
I know what’s on your for you page 😂😂😂😂😂
@@sweatydjack4397 not sure if you're trolling or not, but i thought i might as well tell you, that calling our beloved relic a yapper is all in good fun and we love watching him do it :)
@@wenjuckts681 ahh ok I though you were trolling lol.
u know this channel has fking high quality content when there is no first second and third in the comment section
or "something something fell off" comments
@@Artikz_ x views in y seconds aegis fell off
First
@@austindelacruz5872 Two Hundred and Sixth
Forth
The fact that Shadebinder's only good build for its entire existence has been Osmio Turret Spam and then Prismatic comes out and spams turrets even better frustrates me. They reworked Stasis as a subclass and it's STILL ass. Like c'mon man Ice Wizard is such a cool vibe I wish it was better
my favorite shadebinder build is osmiomancy without turrets. infinite coldsnap grenade spam, glacial harvest and iceflare bolts on top make it rly hard to die. conditional finality goes great with it
Nearly all of its aspects are built with PvP as the main focus. Thats a big part of the issue with Shadebinder in PvE. The melee is a really good example of this. It has a long animation, low velocity and very little aim assistance. Amongst a few other bits. But it instantly freezes the target. This is crazy good in PvP for shutting down shotties and other aggressive players, it's worthy of the trade-offs and difficulty. But it doesn't really translate to being good in PvE, the reward isn't the same. From the ground up it's concept and design is focused on PvP niches.
Shadebinder is just built to be an absolute monster in competitive. Which doesn't exactly transition to being good in PvE. It'd benefit from just having another aspect that is designed to be a bit more helpful in PvE than PvP, another super that's more PvE/damage orientated, and another melee with a different design goal. I don't think complete reworks would really work very well, despite it needing something on that level at the moment. Sure buffs to the numbers would be great, so would tacking on extra perks here and there for the benefit of PvE. But complete reworks to functionality could end up killing it in PvP and it's uniqueness there, so I don't think that's the answer. And it still wouldn't solve the issue.
Other than that, stasis needs buffs in general. The last round of buffs did help somewhat, but they still need a bit more. Although honestly, I'd say arc is in greater need now. They're all so mediocre in PvP and PvE they're almost forgotten about when discussing the best and the worst subclasses. A weird limbo where they're just so incredibly mediocre, yet up until recently no one spoke about them. It's as if they're invisible.
Plus the fact that prismatic warlock gets that WITH DEVOUR.... Yeah, all the stasis classes need major overhauls
I was stacking 3x resistances with The Stag, but they changed the damage resistance fragment to need frost armour. This likely gutted the build since I was using turrets and ice flare, but I haven’t used the build since the release of Final Shape
I ran a build with Monte Carlo bayonet and karnsteins, you get 2.3x melee damage on frozen targets so you have a bit of burst melee damage with the bayonet and pretty good survivability with resto ×2 and frost armor combined, but it's still not worth it over warlock builds in the vast majority of scenarios
whirling maelstrom mentioned 🎉 the moment that subclass gets a good super I swear
'spose I should talk about how I usually run it. Widow's Silk/Whirling Maelstrom/Assassin's Cowl. Maelstrom means you can use your tangles extremely aggressively while still having them available to get free grapples from (and their tendency to chase enemies down makes them outright more helpful than a static grapple tangle in this regard). Grapple melee procs Cowl to keep you alive. Use orbs for Woven Mail and Recuperation for additional survivability.
I basically ran solely this during S22 when the artifact increased tangle damage and printed a bunch of ammo from tangles. Tried it again during ITL and it held up fine despite the weaker artifact support. Haven't revisited for TFS because the new toys are so good, but don't see any reason it would be worse than it was. Heal Clip is also a much stronger perk than it used to be, so you could probably also just use that if Cowl isn't your bag--which probably means Cyrtarachne for the DR instead.
idk I just think it's really easy to underestimate Whirling Maelstrom. I compare it to Witherhoard a lot--it's a substantial AOE damage over time effect that requires minimal commitment in terms of action economy, so you can either go do something else while it cleans up behind you, or you can use it to supplement your guns against minibosses and the like (or, again, just grapple melee off it for free).
I honestly wish they made more supers like chaos reach. Like an in-between of a roaming and pop super.
Like imagine strand hunter just being able to lob strand tangles constantly as one of their supers. And if you end the super early above 10% of your super bar you consume the rest of your super but you throw out 1-10 tangles based on how much super energy you have left.
If you let the entire super run you'll end up throwing 18 tangles but they will take much longer than ending the super early.
@@life-destiny1196 this thing (with cyrtar) paired with final warning was cooking for my day 1 SE encounter 1, such a fun and crazy good aoe build
god I wish they put maelstrom on prism hunter instead of spectre...
its pretty good w star eater scales
Your analysis is of course amazing and much needed but I also really appreciate your use of tiers and ratings. *Actually* utilizing all tiers and the full 1-10 ratings. It’s so much more accurate and nuanced.
Thanks!
Time to comfortably sit in front of my screen and find out wether stasis subclasses are in d tier or if a whole entire new tier even further down below was created for them given how awful they are
Stasis hunter is solid though. As a titan main...that means nothing and I hate it lol
Starting the workday and then seeing a new Aegis video has dropped is just the best. Loving the content dude!
unrelated to everything but i gotta say it, I'm so thankful that bungie didn't invest anything into pvp and focused more in the pve, imagine if they wasted the entire ip to turn it into a competitive shooter like overwatch is doing
Banger thumbnail fr
Been using behemoth in gm for a year, forever S+ tier in my heart ❤
Bro got cut from the old gang so he made his own better tier list. Love your input Aegis
wait what? what happened?
@@luk4aaaaAegis was in the previous subclass tier list video with Saltagreppo and Above, but Above’s newest subclass tier list video has Salt and Mactics instead
Their lists were biased making them inferior anyway, Aegis is the only real one.
@@Googahgee is it known for sure that he left or was excluded or is it just a case of Aegis didn't want to be in it or was already working on this video?
@@Googahgee what the fuck is mactics doing there💀
Imagine if Lightning Surge was remotely close to Consecration considering it takes the exact same investment (aspect + strand triple charge melee + synthos). I know jolt doesn't inherit buffs, but even the base ability is just so pathetic against anything that isnt faceroll easy. And to think that they decided Consecration needed a 20% buff to its ignition when they added it to prismatic, but they looked at Lightning Surge and said "yeah that's fine" somehow.
its shit in pve but onehits if youre close to a wall in pvp for no good reason at all
I can guarantee the reason they didn’t buff it was PvP. PvP balancing has ruined the fun of subclasses for so long its frustrating asf. Doesn’t seem likely now but it they ever did seperate PvE and PvP sandboxes to the abilities/supers could be tuned separately for each. The game would improve ✨meteorically✨ I cannot emphasise that enough (especially PvE).
Case and point arc warlock and titan are two what you might call PvP classes. They are only ok in the hands of a great player in PvE but because they’ve got some alright PvP viability that most players can take advantage of, they’ll never get the buffs they need because they’re scared of causing issues for PvP. Which sucks as a PvE main.
@@ross6789 nah, theyve been doing pvp specific balance changes for a while now and the only reason its good in pvp is because of the nature of it being a teleport, and also it being bugged so it can insta kill. Like how blink is only used in pvp and not pve. I do agree that completely seperating the sandboxes would be amazing though!
Consecration spam may be the hot thing right now for prismatic titan, but I'm getting way more fun out of my Abeyant Leap and Second Chance builds.
Notice Titans are the worst in every element except Strand and barely Solar, as well as having nothing in S tier. I’m glad videos like these exist to debunk the “Titan = easy mode” hoax that’s taken over the casual side of the community.
It’s been bothering me since final shape dropped that they moved weapons of light off of base bubble onto helm of saint 14 while adding lingering radiant upon leaving a well for 8s when well was already bubble but viable. This entire update felt like “stop it’s already dead” when the topic is bubble. Also another problem with prism titan that I don’t think you mentioned is that a big selling point of it is thruster, and all of the Titan class time perks pretty much suck except synthos, considering consecration knockout is the only endgame viable prismatic Titan loadout. Most of the perks also require a barricade, so having thruster feels counterproductive
Yeah agreed
it’s the attention to detail that keeps me engaged, always good work
Something to note for prismatic titan, you can weaken with Second Chance shield toss. You do get two charges, so I think that’s rather spammable.
Not sure if you would think the exotic commitment is truly worth the trade off or not.
Yeah the exotic commitment was the dealbreaker for me but in solo it might be needed
As a hunter I'm a bit salty with the rankings, and I'd like to mention some more specific builds which are not widely known about.
I just cannot agree with strand hunter being worse than stasis, no way in hell. Cyrtarachne woven mail spam literally has infinite uptime thanks to whirling maelstrom, and that thing pretty much automatically clears rooms for you, and you can grapple on them to refresh woven mail and spam rockets with a shit ton of reloads. That damage reduction and insane movement thanks to grapple uptime makes it the second strongest offensive hunter subclass in GMs besides prismatic imo (I'm not taking about arc or prismatic melee builds, just ranged).
For stasis, I'm really glad that someone has finally recognized the power that it holds, however I was recently blown away by the changes to Touch of Winter Coldsnap grenades, which now infinitely create duplicates of themselves upon finding an enemy, creating larger and larger stasis crystals. With Frostees the uptime on them is nearly 100% thanks to whisper of shards, and while it may not be as powerful when it comes to frost armor (it has none if you use winter's shroud tho), it's still an extremely powerful offensive build which kinda makes stasis titan obsolete in terms of crystal shattering.
Finally, a note from former stasis, former strand, now prismatic hunter main. Spirit of Inmost Light + Cyrtarachne is ridiculous. It has pretty much the same gameplay loop as strand hunter, given that both grapple and strand melee are the best abilities for HOIL spam, but instead of whirling maelstrom it features GPG, which may be harder to get but the payoff is also quite worth it. It also refreshes your woven mail, you get it from cancelling your grapple, you also refresh it from the tangles which you leave, you can also apply sever with threaded spike which you didn't mention.
Playing with a melee build is a lot more optimal, it is a lot stronger and all, but it's not like everyone is skillful enough to survive with it in higher levels, especially not solo, so this ranged build makes GMs and non-boss encounters in dungeons and raids very easy. It's also extremely fun.
Don't think Aegis really playing around with strand hunter + cyrtarachne. And that build carrying me too. And I finally got my hoil+cyrtarachne last week after farming it for sooooo long
@@eiji2B saaaame man, it took me ages to get but I'm so happy with it. Already nearly solo'd the last GM, the boss died one second later than me and it didn't count.
I believe ATP (All The Players) was the first to use this build to solo massive amount of GMs and even made a detailed guide on that.
@@Aohira6538it’s just that stasis hunter has more going for it over all, yes strand hunter is fun and grapple reloads are good, but stasis has access to impetus, a good damage super, pairs better with burst damage weapons like 4th horseman, and cascade bns edge transit, and shatter damage, not saying strand is bad, but from just the damage section it’s significantly stronger
I was gonna argue that Solar Hunter is fantastic for solo dungeons due to have access to Assassin's Cowl Knife Trick spam into a Nighthawk swap for damage, but then I realised that Prismatic Hunter eclipsed the invisibility functionality too.
DAMN they should have balanced Prismatic Hunter so much better.
Yeah I think no matter what as good as prismatic is all Solar subclasses across the board are at least A tier by having access to heal nades and other ways to proc restoration, ways to proc radiant, and some of the better supers in the game
Aegis videos over 30 mins are always a treat
Cold ass thumbnail
Song of Flame is an extremely strong damage super, not because of it's damage, but because with a reconstruction rocket launcher like Apex or Solstice Crowning Duologue, you can mix rocket shots in between each loop of grenade and melee.
This creates a very high damage loop of grenade, melee, rocket that melts bosses, especially with surges and things to boost ignition damage
This line of thinking is similar to what people thought when Dragon's Breath first released, and the same reason why many people think Apotheosis Veil is a competitive damage option in optimized environments. In reality, high APM or high ability usage rate does not actually equal high DPS all the time, especially when you consider that Song of Flame's abilities (both snap and wisp) do very little damage compared to other high burst damage supers, and that the time window between rocket activations is better spent on a higher damage component.
@@TheAegisRelic Aztecross recently made a video showing off all super's and their damage, Song of Flame was consistently the one of the highest base damage super aside from Twilight Arsenal, and that was just using the melee component of Song of Flame, no weapons
Adding in weapons like rockets bolsters the damage even more, allowing for massive damage against bosses
Sure it isn't consistent for all bosses, but for bosses it does work on, it carries
I've measured super damage myself, believe me I'm aware of its total damage, it's just not an efficient use of the super IMO
Aegis, you and I couldn't be FARTHER apart in how we play Destiny (I'm Destiny Dad age and only get worse every day lol) and yet, I'll watch and be thoroughly entertained by every single video you make. I also appreciate how you cover things. It'd be so easy to just simply say "Behemoth sucks atm😢" but you relay things in such a way that even things at the bottom of lists still seem approachable without just complaining about everything. It's appreciated. Continue to kill it 💪
Appreciate it!
Icefall Mantle should've given Behemoth a -1 for movement.
LMAO
GOD DAMN your channel has grown since I last checked the sub count. So glad youre getting the recognition you deserve. Ive been spreading your gospel to my friends and randoms on lfgs for a while now and finally people here and there actually already know about your vids!
I do think the best use case for Shadebinder these days is going all-in on frost armor with iceflare bolt and glacial harvest since prismatic warlock is just better turret class in all scenarios.
Since x8 frost armor gives more DR than woven mail and can be refreshed by just freezing enemies, as well as giving a small amount of health per share, it makes Shadebinder a lot healthier in stuff like GMs.
I’ve been using whisper of rime, conduction, bonds, and rending with bold endings and flexing between still hunt or winterbite depending on the content difficulty. While obviously not good for damage scenarios, it’s surprisingly good in GMs, playing almost how I wish Broodweaver played if it wasn’t squishy as can be.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Woven Mail is 45% damage reduction, while x5 frost armor is 25,5% and x8 is 36%. As a hunter I can barely feel even fully stacked one tbh, and I'm a lot more used to spamming my duskfields offensively rather than defensively.
I definitely do agree with you that just using the grenade with a harvest aspect is a lot more fun and instantly more rewarding than the Bleak Watcher loop. On hunter these grenades nuke with touch of winter after the buffs, and it may even rival renewal grasps in terms of endgame viability, which certainly remains to be tested.
@@Aohira6538 ah, could’ve sworn they nerfed it and buffed sever in a patch awhile ago. In any case, it’s a lot easier to get and maintain frost armor on Shadebinder than it is to maintain woven mail on Broodweaver in hard content. Not to mention weavewalk has anti synergy with the theoretically best Broodweaver exotic in Mataiodoxia
@@Aohira6538Woven Mail was nerfed to 35% in season of the Wish.
As always informative and EXPLAINED DEEPLY, thanks so much, truly always pumping out the quality content.
I massively identify with the way you share and present information.
Thank you sir 🫡🤙
Petition for shader tier list🗣🗣🗣
Worth noting that the actual Star-Eater scales still have unnerfed super regen for Blade barrage (which is still one of the top DPS supers). Having access to a great damage super with great uptime, Healing nades + Empyraen, Neutral game handling/reload buff for rotations, and radiant on-demand with fast recharging knives still makes Gunslinger **atleast B-tier** in my opinion. Sure build/ability variety sucks, but Gunslinger still is rock solid DPS and okay survivability.
I think you're overrating how good Blade Barrage is, it's worse burst than Celestial and worse total as well(?) I believe with Courage
@@TheAegisRelic Celestial is slightly worse total. Celestial does 656522 and with courage would be 656522*1.1=722175.
BB w/ star-eater is 737147.
Though idk if your sheet accounts for the extra damage goldy gets when shooting fast.
Ah they're pretty close, I thought with Radiant and Courage Nighthawk would be higher
@@TheAegisRelic As the other person said, BB has been higher damage than CNH goldie as far as any test that i've seen. In the end they are close enough to the point where they are situational. Also i believe BB even beats out goldie in burst in scenarios where you can't pre-pop Goldie.
The other thing not talked about are the healing differences. A gunslinger on star eaters gets a full heal on cast. Gunslinger also gets healing nades which flat out beat anything prismatic can heal with (Transcendence DR good though). Prismatic actually doesn't have a way to heal outside melee range which feels terrible in my experience. Stylish executioner is overhyped as alot of in-air projectiles still hit you and ground DoTs are gonna still hit you. Healing grenades are busted to say the least, even with resto x1.
Great video buddy. The fact that you can do this while in school and balance your social life, is astonishing. Not to bash other creators butttt, this is real homemade content here.
Thanks!
15:55 even in overpopulated crowd of arc soul bleak watcher warlocks, contraverse will always be my go to goat. First ever wasted 0 build I made, always fun to break it out now and then. Quality list and vid! Loved the renewed point system.
I love how you organized this tier list
I think the Stasis crystal interaction with diamond lance and consecration will help with build viability. Lances breaking crystals specifically would be really nice with headstone weapons. That change was supposed to launch with the final shape (it was in the patch notes even) but it just didnt happen, and to my knowledge bungie hasn't mentioned it. Hopefully they get around to it soon. Great video as always pookie
I LOVE this form of tier listing. It feels so reasonable.
Would love to see some dmg rotations tier list for each class, like strand apotheosis warlock rockets, and still hunt golden gun prismatic hunters.
On it soon! (ish)
Ive been using Red Death's catalyst to proc Restoration x2 on Titan and use Lorely and healing nades on Sunbreaker as well as empyrean/benevolence to keep my timer of restoration x2 constantly going. I went into expert Onslaught the other day and not only was I able to not die once, but from the moment I had restoration x2 timer going during the first wave it never once ran out the entire duration of the 50 waves. Thats restoration x2 going for about an hour and all it requires to keep up is activating my barricade or throwing my grenade down no killes required after the first couple to initially proc resto x2
Mataidoxia build for prismatic is insane, you can stun champions just from using the abilities, and they’re spammable too, it’s insanely strong
Will try it out some time!
Your breakdowns are great. Thanks for putting the effort into it.
Appreciate the effort that went into this. Naturally there are some differing opinions on the placements but I largely agree.
I personally wouldn´t place Prismatic Hunter in S-Tier if the Prismatic Titan and Warlock are not there as well. Purely from an Endgame perspective I don´t see a lot of differences between these Classes when I am playing them, especially now with the Super Buffs for Titan. In my opinion you hyped the Prisma Hunter too much here based on theoretical performance.
I wouldn´t put Liar CB up as an Endgame Build because it requires a repetetive setup that is slow and not worth it in anything where there aren´t many enemies that die quickly to Melee or do too much damage while you are stacking Buffs. Most of the time playing a different build is more effective and less stressful. This has been the thing with Liars since it came out and why nobody is talking about it after the hype dies.
Syntho Grapple Melee is way too situational in the same way that Titan Grapple Melee is. I don´t see the use of it for anything outside of specific bosses with Ads around. I feel like this is skewing the Ranking a bit.
Threaded Spectre is probably the Aspect I hate the most because it is so damn useless in harder content. It increases Dodge Regen and holds for a second, especially with Ads that just run up to it and cause it to explode.
Renewal and Cyrtarachne are okay, but the uptime is pretty bad. Inmost Light and Crytrachne is better and more versatile, espeically with Ergo Sum.
Survivability on Prismatic Hunter is actually my biggest gripe with it because there is no easy access to it for harder content. CB Healing sucks when you first have to run into a group to get healing which in turn can get you killed faster. Most people are not using it for a reason.
Stylish costs a lot of offensive capabilities since it is only good for that moment that you need Invis. I found myself switching to Ascension for Amplified and Jolt.
You should add Propulsion to Prismatic Titan Builds. Also, Assassin+Syntho is available for Titans and brings Survivability and Offense to another Level. That stuff is so much more powerful than Combination Blow Liars. I can run any conent just using Consecration with that.
Vesper of radius spam can also be done on prismatic, so arc warlock has nothing aside arc souls
GG
arc souls can be used on prismatic with getaway artist, no reason to ever use arc warlock.
literally the only d2 youtuber worth watching at this point
I'm going to have to double check because I'm uncertain as to if it is actually working but I *think* spirit of synthoceps buffs Glacial Quake's Light Attack as if it was a melee. From running the consecration build with Quake on (great for add clear, dark meter, facet of purpose gives frost armor which lasts up to 9s for the artifact mod that boosts melees) Quake light attacks do activate Spirit of the Assassin and they seem to be doing a frankly stupid amount of damage (2 shotting GM Liminality's Lucent Wizard from full health doesn't seem normal). If you're slightly off the ground you can spam the light attacks pretty fast as well. I doubt it's particularly amazing for boss dps but if it is working like that might be a point to consider in its favour slightly.
Can confirm it is buffing glacial quake. Against calus it does 33642 at base, with spirit of synthos it goes up to 89,152 (exactly 2.65x buff from synthos). Base synthos also buffs by 2.65x.
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be that good at dps. I was able to get 10 melees off in about 9.5s (timer started the moment I popped super and ended once I could shoot weapons again).
Scaling the syntho value from calus to raid, 89152 * 45.7431/44.5 = 91643 per melee attack.
10 melees over 9.5s results in 91643*10/9.5 = 96,466 dps. Aegis's sheet has tractor debuff so it would go to 96,466*1.3 = 125,406 dps which is below a lot of entries.
I know it's still a great option in gms, I've seen specialhero often run it for gm speedruns and spam the light attack to melt chunky targets.
edit: glacial quake light attack is literally just a melee. This means it gets a 50% boost from knockout, full benefit from wormgod's/synthos, etc.
On riven with synthos+knockout I hit for 137,463. Using this new number dps would be 137463 * 1.3 * 10/9.5=188,108 dps. Wormgod's x5 stacks is a 3.75x multiplier instead of synthos 2.65x so wormgod's simulated dps would be 188,108 * 3.75/2.65 = 266,190 dps.
Whole lot of yapp to say it's not great for dps, but can hit surprisingly hard per attack for stuff like gms.
I've been told that it does, but DPS-wise spamming the light attack isn't great as Spider says
Prismatic has a fun ability-loop build, but you have to get HoIL and Armamentarium in your Exotic Class item, it's really useful since you can have 3x Melee charges, 2x grenade charges and Thruster. Consecration (obviously) and maybe Drengr's Leash or Diamond Lance, you can spam abilities pretty nicely and build trans energy but even if you don't have that combo, ordinary HoIL does it's job. A 20% DMG to all abilities is nice
probably a better case for strand titan, but Solar Titan or any titan subclass can get access to Resto x2 with the Stronghold exotic, rlly carried me through a lot of solo content
Pretty disappointed with the limited testing of Prismatic Warlock builds in this list.
Buddy spam is easily one of the weaker popular Prismatic Warlock builds out there, no mention of Mataiodoxia needle spam to clear entire rooms, etc.
Matiodoxia is insanely strong
Felwinters Helm electric slide
SYNTHOCEPS electric slide
Song of flame existing on the class, with FoL nova bomb.
Yeah even osmio/hoil + star eater
I will certainly try out other builds when I have time, but all of the other builds I've seen don't really seem to be dominating the sandbox in the same way that titan and hunter builds have. I'd love to see some footage from a GM of people using these builds you mention, since on paper they don't particularly sound very potent - Synthoceps Lightning Surge, for example, is pretty underwhelming, which leaves me concerned about the other builds mentioned alongside it.
@@TheAegisRelic Give a chance to the mataidoxia one at least.
Felwinters build I’ve seen from itsTizzle on yt has been in my loadouts ever since TFS has dropped. Definitely worth a look. 🙂
As a casual, aegis videos are like guilty pleasures
Agree with all of it except Prismatic Warlock is S-Tier
Fantastic!
Some things i think are worth mentioning you didn't cover;
Solar hunter technically ALSO has still hunt to pair w/ nighthawk goldie for damage; this changes nothing abt its viability because prismatic hunter still exists
Arc titan could be argued to have a 1 in mobility because of tcrash + ballistic slam in jumping puzzles/long distances; this also changes nothing in its viability
Euphony threadling builds might be worth mentioning on Strand warlock?
While the tierlist is mainly focused on general gameplay, there are some endgame uses outside of that, but this is more speedrun stuff
(arc and prismatic titan also gets thruster- I know there's some uses it has in skating tech, but it's still not really anything) I guess titans also have lion's sword skating?
Lastly, glacier nade might be worth mentioning for OOBing?
And i fully agree with shiver strike not being considered a movement option lol
Still Hunt works with Nighthawk even when you're not on Golden Gun :P
Yeah I suppose Euphony might have some utility with those, 2 crits for 3 threadlings isn't horrible
I wouldn't really consider "titan skating" a unique tech in the same way I didn't add burst glide warlock skating
Thank you for being reasonable about Prismatic Warlock. People really think it is above solar and I just do not think so.
I’m a titan main and prismatic titan can definitely hit some solid dps when using twilight arsenal , transcendence, then doing the still hunt into auto loading rocket loop while wearing hazardous propulsion exodus rockets. Most ive seen solo damage for 1 phase of the witness was around 5.6 million which is crazy for a titan. And I’m sure using class item with spirit of star eater will make it a bit more. But tbh I wish it just had more survivability like banner of war. If I could use that and a grapple on prismatic I would probably be willing to give up consecration. Don’t get me wrong, knock out with mods that restore health when you pick up an orb and certain armor charge buffs definitely help, but I feel unkillable when I run banner of war titan with synthoceps grapple melee and a 1,2 punch shotgun
another objectively correct tier list from the goat!
Hey Aegis, congrats on 70k subs!
Thanks!
Best tier list I’ve seen. Well done!
Aegis what would you recommend for a stasis rework? This whole frost armor change feels so bad man. Stasis felt amazing back with well mods and the tracking armor mod so maybe add intrinsic tracking? I just want stasis to feel good again but its such a chore now to keep up frost armor and the healing is laughable. Love the content btw
I'll make sandbox suggestions/analysis videos on a macro level at some point in the future to answer questions like these :P
This list really reaffirmed my belief on how bad balancing is currently. A combined half of the subs is D or C. IMO this means they are straight up awful of technically OK, but so lackluster compared to better options that you'd never use them outside of the easiest content. And then there is now one more sub in S, which IMHO is also bad since that means they are game-warpingly good to the point they push other options from being used. Sandbox is really in need of serious retuning.
Bubble’s downfall over the years is painful
i got a renewal/crytarachne that started as a meme build, but is actually goated for GM content. running it with gunpowder gamble makes it really strong
Outside of revenant being higher than need be this is the most solid list out right now
Nah rev cooks
I think Arc Hunter could stand to be B, but yeah, good tier list\
Finally someone is giving strand titan credit, I don't even play titan and I know it's a great subclass
FYI, contest content is -25 now if they’re going to keep doing what they did with SE. We were capped at 1965 and the enemies were 1990.
great list, i think only thing i’d mention is the necrotic/inmost + claws prismatic lock build as a good variety build, good sustain in devour or blessing, ruin makes the ignition good for clearing with bleak watchers, high ability uptime, transcendent/song of flame melee spam n still pretty viable in end game for champ burning
probably not enough to bump it to S but worth a mention
Yeah a lot of people seem to be dissatisfied with my comments on Prismatic warlock builds and in response they bring up builds which are essentially the same core abilities except with a different exotic class item combination, which I think is missing my point a little
I will very often bring strand Hunter into roam content over other sub classes because grapple canceling giving you nearly infinite grapples that let you clear packs of enemies and move on to the next so quickly, leaving behind a whirling maelstrom to clean up any stragglers, use cowl to go invis and heal and sever from threaded spike on anything scary. I think it's the best general use movement in the game for just playing the game normally. After every encounter in salvations edge I swap to strand if I'm not already on it just to get through all the jumping puzzles. It might not be the best subclass in the game but I think it's definitely the funnest to play with the hyper mobile playstyle
I disagree with some of your build scoring, personally I think prismatic warlock should have a slight higher score and be in S. It might not clear rooms as fast as prismatic hunter or titan but it locks down rooms better than pretty much any other class with how fast your grenade comes back, having three or four stasis turrets at once pretty much nothing in a room can move. (I do understand from your point of view being a speed runner that just blowing everything up is better but from a broader sense cc can be just as strong)
I’d be interested in a vid from you about how you would fix some of the bottom classes
Overall a great vid tho!
The thing he mentioned though that keeps it out of S tier (and I say this as a warlock player), is the lack of builds. Yes, getaway artist builds are cc masters and hold their own, outside of that, most other builds are lacking in one area or another for endgame content. They aren’t bad by any means, but just more limited.
I understand that but my point is he gave prismatic warlock a 6 for builds becuz its lacking in variety but he gave titan a 9 which has arguably less variety but be cuz it blows things up it’s a 9 and not a 6. Again not he’s wrong or anything, just saying that in a broader sense that unless your a speed runner I think prismatic warlock is S tier. But I understand that this list is made with the mentality of a speed runner tho so I still like the list! 😁
@@MarsMaynard I mean no, mataidoxia needle spam is arguably better than getaway.
I will definitely try more Prismatic builds out later this season when I have more time, but my preliminary thoughts are represented in this tier list for now. As always on this channel, I am open to changing things and moving them up or down depending on patch changes and my sentiments on how strong options are in the sandbox.
I will say build variety isn’t the best on prismatic warlock, but I don’t think getaway is the best build for that subclass. Running a star eater + inmost light (or necrotic when it gets fixed with devour) setup with storm grenade, needle, and phoenix dive with hellion and devour has been disgusting in end game content, especially the master raid and GMs.
Having access to a majority of the elemental debuffs when running facet of dominance can stack some crazy dot damage that adds up quick, and is also particularly good for solo flawless dungeon dps. So while I don’t think builds get too vastly different, that one does so much and is so strong that I think it’s in contention for S tier, even if it’s on the lower end
Holy thumbnail
Having to include a g and h tier for the fragment tier list is mad funny lol. Not that there's anything wrong with it I just think it's really amusing
Can you make a video about the best class item combos for endgame content to farm for? Maybe also go into some fitting builds that ultilize the class item roll to the fullest. I know that Syntho innermost light on titan is amazing, but not many more than that. I think you could clear up a lot, since there are some strong combinations that are mostly great, but not for endgame PvE. Thanks!
I might if I do the exotic armor series
@@TheAegisRelic Awesome, can´t wait
@@TheAegisRelicPlease. My vault is full 😂😅
I think you forgot that Ward of Dawn no longer gives the damage buff unless you're wearing Helm of Saint-14, unless I'm mistaken and you just assumed everyone would know to swap.
Yeah if you're using Ward for buff you'll have Helm on but generally I don't think anyone is using it anyways haha
if Aegis told us Jotunn is the meta, i bet everyone would start using it 😂
I listened to this entire video while doing my homework
For prismatic warlock I think mataiodoxia is the strongest exotic you can play which makes it even better than its already is. It's certainly one of the best in the game regarding champs, because you have it all. Needles for barrier and suspend for add clear and roomcontrole, bleek watcher for unstop and overload. Combined with unstop and indept kindness you are a force to be reckoned with. And Prismatic which the Meele even stronger. The Meele spam which makes the needles with this exotic actually pretty OP
Behemoth is such a funny case. Its either piss broken or completely useless depending on the encounter
I know remewal grasp is super good, but hunters coldsnap is also something to consider. I run it with a foetracer build and you always have a grenade up and dish serious crowd control and damage. Both are super good, i love the stasis changes that came with the final shape
Something to add to your arc warlock eval, two of arc warlock's most powerful builds (karnstein slide melees and arc soul spam) are outdone by a mile by prismatic warlock
Aegis , best perk in the game LetsGO!
wow what an amazing and informative video from the aegis relic :D
Great video as always Aegis! I’d definitely recommend checking out a gifted conviction build on arc hunter. Its DR is quite potent!
It's in the plan!
Fantastic video! Thank you for sharing your view.
more hyped for these videos than TWABs
Awesome work again and again bro ur the best❤
Love your vids, good tierlist overall and I know you're mainly talking from a speedrun perspective. However, strand titan being only 1 point above and even 1 point below stasis titan and void warlock respectively in the survivability category is way off imo. Woven plus banner is not only very good, you also have to consider how easy it is to keep up.
If you're doing boss dmg and there are no adds around devour won't be doing anything for your health, while banner and woven will be. Void hunter having 8 makes sense, but as soon as you start shooting invis is gone. How it is used should and obtained should matter more than just what is does in terms of raw numbers imo. Besides primatic subclasses and solar warlock, strand titan has the best survivability in the game when actually doing something and deserves at least a 7 for that category imo.
I'll definitely reevaluate scoring next season (this is a first draft after all), but one of my lowkey problems I mentioned about Banner that I maybe understated is its uptime nerfs, it really doesn't feel like you can go into damage with a full 30s almost at all any more, so that's a little rough, but your comments definitely have some merit
I'm just amazed that they added spirit of star eatters and proceeded to give titans and warlock a super that ends up doing over a million damage and when used with it and just didn't buff other supers to match. And now hunter supers are just so much less damage
no way you are complaining about hunter damage 😂
another 50 minute banger thanks to the GOAT
i like warlock arc, the ionic traces travel to you and you can have high up time on abilities, love running stag with it. def high d, low c tier.
A very strong sustained and survival/ad clear duo is void hunter with Omni and then stasis titan with hoarfrost-Z. Pretty cool synergy’s can be done with these two classes
Both were mentioned, with one being praised and the other being a bit disappointing IMO
I've been telling all of my friends that Stasis EVERYTHING needs help. When I read the first wave of changes pre TFS, i knew it wouldn't move the needle. And then the next wave of changes came out before the prismatic reveal, and i knew then it still wouldn't be enough. Stasis and Arc both need massive overhauls. Im thinking reverting them to some pre nerfed states, like Beyond Light levels of potency for Stasis and pre nerf levels of Season of Plunder for Arc. Thats what its going to take to make those classes good again.
Would it be possible to get the ergo sum roll tier list added to the spreadsheet? I’ve watched the video but it’d be nice to have a graphic to refer to, to quickly check what frames you should get with which rolls.
💜
I still love running doom fang Pauldrons in legend onslaught and luminality gm. I can't deny that I am setting myself up for a greater challenge. Hopefully these next exotic armor buffs help these underperformed Subclasses
Thank you for another banger video!
Give me that juicy tier list content
Never played anything but hunter but prismatic warlock made me really wanna try it. I can't see myself picking strand titan over it for sure and to me when looking from outside, they're on different tiers
Berserker definitely more of a teamplay subclass at this point
just wanted to put one thing forward though it doesnt really affect the tierlist vesper prismatic warlock is also kind of a valid option if we're talking build variety, this does require u to put on stormtrance so yea big negative in damage department but vesper tho not as spammy as arc still has very high uptime where u will definitely be casting your second rift before the first runs out, and its imo an upgrade from normal arc build cause devour, better grenades with the transendence nades and vortex, helion is also a direct upgrade from arc soul where arc does less dmg even with an amplified soul, for a last bit ergo sum with arc conductor also works really well here since u can guard with sword to get close to enemies, place rift, then easily ad clear with your sword with minimum risk since everyone with sword range will also be blinded by your rift
I would have put Arc Warlock in C or B. I'm always happy to see one on my team. I'd not put it tied with Arc Titan, which I'm in full agreement with you on.
Brilliant, my next opinion has arrived 🙏
Whirling maelstrom still works as a grapple point for those that didn't know