Was the avant-garde Princess ahead of its time?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- The Princess has got a bad reputation. By the time it featured as Terry Scott’s suburban car in the ever-so middle-class, middle-of-the-road “Terry and June”, it was seen as just another unreliable mistake from British Leyland. But the Princess was front wheel drive - something large family cars flocked to in the 1980s after the Vauxhall Cavalier showed it was the way to go. It had a forward-thinking design, turning its back on boring three box shapes like the Ford Cortina that launched just a year later. And it focused on a low drag shape, just like Citroen, to get the most power and fuel efficiency from the engine.
But being produced by British Leyland in the 1970s, becoming successful was beyond even this car’s reach, and almost as soon as it had launched it was forgotten, and Ford’s boxy Cortina went on to rule the roost. So just what went wrong?
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Optional Extra video about the Princess: • British Leyland Prince...
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Erratum: The Post Office changed from being a department of state to a public corporation (in 1969). It would have been a bit weird if it was private before the Second World War!
Fascinating, and highly informative.
Same thing in the US.
Lll
The problem with the Ambassador and Princess wasn't the car, they were nice but the customers were a new breed of import buyers. It all stemmed from Cambridge University's mid-1970s Europe stance.
In around 1991 I got hold of a W reg. 2200 HLS. It was in mint condition at the time. It had 71,000 miles on the clock and I used to clock-up around a further 1000 miles a week on average. I had no major problems with it. Mostly just replacing tyres and brake pads. I sold it with 120,000 miles on the clock. I loved that car. When I pulled up to a stop at traffic lights etc. the engine appeared silent and when I first owned it, I thought the engine had stalled, on turning the key to restart it, I got the shock of the grinding noise from the starting motor, because it had not stalled at all, it was just silent in traffic. The other cars engines were just louder than mine. The magic carpet ride was the other thing and so much more. I could go on, but not enough room here to tell the whole story. I only sold it because it only ever achieved 23 mpg, no matter how it was driven, around town or long distance. My new purchase achieved between 40 and 50 mpg. After a while, having missed the princess so much I wished I had kept it a Sunday drive / Holidays car.
Super comment . Thanks for posting
So it has same disadvantageas Polish - FSO Polonez - miles per galon. Actually it has much more disadvantages, it was produced at time when Polish economy was ruined by strikes, we had been behind iron curtain. Corrosion, engine was malfunctioning but some people put LPG in it and wasn't that much worse than Ford Escort for example or Astra G. Later when they sold company to Daewoo / Chevrolet it was abandoned. Same for Fiat 125 and Fiat 126 IMO British motor industry have lot in common to Polish. Demolished owned by other companies now we are making what Germans wants. Same for weaponry we had planes to teach new pilots Iskra, Iryda, it was canceled, to purchase Italian ones, we had our tank Twardy it was replaced by Germans and USA tanks so on so forth. Once i look at Polonez in one of it's older version i saw lot of similarities to "Back In the future" car. Company was not even sold it was given for free.. in early 90s you could purchase company for price of used Mercedes E class. For example Kotlin - ketchup, one of biggest manufacturer, was purchased for real at the price of old used car and i know this story directly from company owner. Economy was ruined both by east and west, country was sold out..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FSO_Polonez
@@KabelkowyJoe BMW sold rover for £10. The 4 owners got £40 million when it was later bankrupt
@@zenbudhism You are correct. The new Venture Capatalist - VC - "investors" then pocketed sackloads of government money maximising their invrstment - but their intention was never to actually do anything other than asset strip, take the money, and run.
When the then government's business secretary Peter Mandelson tried to launch an investigation into what happened to the funds that had been handed out, New Labour had already fallen out of favour with the British Press and much of the British public. Instead of paying attention to the robbing of public funds, they instead ganged up on Mandelson.
Thousands of workers and dozens of suppliers, BMW, and the British (and Euro) governments had been conned.
It was Venture Capitalism at its worse. Public money to line the pockets of investors, public money to clean up the mess of their asset stripping and bankruptcy, the demise of some iconic UK brands, and future engineering and design growth. Sickening.
I had Princess 2 2000HL LHD here in Finland. It was very rarely seen car, and imho the front of it looks great, especially with round headlights. I only needed to replace one valve, clutch and rear suspension bushes. I previously owned Saab 99, and surprisely quite a lot of it's parts (including clutch) were snap-on alternatives, since British ones were quite unknown. Great episode!
I have to agree that they look great, I've always loved hoe aggressive the front end looked with the round headlights. I can't comment on the reliability and ownability though because I've never owned one 😅
He said unlike the princess the ambassador was not available in LHD
It looks a lot better with round headlights and without the vinyl roof.
The vinyl roof is awful in any car. I prefer the rectangular headlights, though.
@@UHF43 Yes, they look crass, dare I say "American", and cause massive rust.
The old Jags with the vinyl roofs looked nice in my eyes anyway
@@UHF43 Preferred the four round jobbies. Much more impressive. Two immediate neighbours had 2000 top spec Princesses. Both liked them and so did I. As ordinary cars go, lets face it most Fords, Vauxhalls, VWs etc at that time were very ordinary, the Princesses and Ambassadors go well. Saw one a few weeks ago in that Champagne colour Clarkson wannabees call Hearing Aid Beige. It was immaculate and keeping up with modern traffic easily. O-Series power.
My Austin Ambassador Y reg, Y reg, Y reg
My Austin Ambassador Y reg is a car that I revere
My Austin Ambassador Y reg, Y reg, Y reg
Don’t keep asking me why, Reg
It just happens to be that year...
Great video!
Superb video! :D
The Princess may be a car people love to hate, but even today it's still an eye-catching little machine. :)
Thanks Ruairidh. I swear I didn't crib anything from your excellent video, except after I'd finished making it I took a look and realised I'd called it the "Austin Princess" in places, so I had to go and correct it! It seems we both made the "Terry & June" connection, which I swear I remember from the 70s, but it was also mentioned on the Top Gear piece.
@@BigCar2 No worries, I really enjoyed your work, with plenty of details which were even new to me! :D
As a three year old in the early 80’s one of my earliest memories is being fascinated by the rust bubbles under the paint of the wheelarches of next door’s Princess!
I'm guessing there were plenty of them to keep you amused! I used to see these and the other BL cars going through the motor auctions, (mid to late 80's) I was a pre-teen at the time. They always went cheap and were rusty; my dad used to buy us a cup of tea when a load of them were going through 🤣
Hold on- James may used this car in the British Leyland challenge, it was the very car which won the challenge.
I'll always remember Jeremys line when James brought the car, "And he's brought a piece of cheese"
yeah he scored in all the challenges
Most interesting car they ever did! It was the first car to obscure its windscreen wipers.
@@Randgalf lmao yes 🤣
May (driving the Princess around the track): "Beautiful, smooth six-cylinder engine."
Meanwhile, Jeremy & Richard watching on from trackside;
Hammond: (laughs) "That is just a rubbish sight!"
Clarkson: "And it's an automatic!" (both laughing)
@@Randgalf WOW!
I had two.
1st one was an 1800.
The second 2200 was the best, 6 cylinder, auto box and power steering. It surprised other drivers when you floored the pedal off the lights. Best thing was me taking it on a touring holiday from the south coast up the western side of the uk to Scotland including the Isle of Skye, then across to Inverness and down the eastern side of the country M back to home.
2 adults, 1 teenager and 3 kids plus 2 tents and belongings, we did 2,121 miles in 10 days. Never missed a beat even over Hardknott pass. Cost a fortune in petrol but we had a lot of fun.
Very underrated cars.
I was given my Father's 2200 HLS upon passing my driving test in 1984. It was a fine looking car with a nice ride and ran reliably until I bumped the front and smashed the headlights and couldn't afford to have it repaired.
Just post odd ephemera from across your life's failures, everyone is interested.
Fascinating piece - thank you! But the narrative around engine changes got a bit confused. In fact the first Wedges had, as you say, the B-series 1800, but the 2200 was a six-cylinder E-series with a four-speed gearbox: it was basically one and a half Maxi engines, and the Maxi gearbox could not handle the power of the 2200 (it was bad enough on the four-cylinder engines). The E-series six had its own issues, principally derived from its very tight bore spacing - to sit sideways it had to be as short as possible, and this compromised cooling performance and bearing sizes. Results: overheating and crank problems. Nice...
The Princess 2 abandoned both these lumps for the "new" O-series engine in two capacities, 1700 and 2000. There never was an E-series 2000. The O-series, also rammed into larger-capacity Marinas for a few years but not into the MGB (end of life was looming, and it wasn't worth the engineering cost), wasn't really new: it was really a B-series with an overhead camshaft, and a nasty tendency to distort its bores when hot (what should ideally be circular became slightly oval, with nasty consequences for engine wear and oil consumption). I worked for one of BL's engine parts suppliers just after this period, and heard a lot about this problem.
And yes, all this meant that by the late 70s, BL had the 1700 O-series, the 1750 E-series, the 1800 B-series, the 1850 Dolomite OHC, the 2000 O-series, the 2000 TR7 8-valve and the 2000 Dolly Sprint 16-valve all in production at the same time. It's not really surprising they were such a financial and engineering disaster....
I fell absolutely in love with the Princess after the Top Gear episode. I've never owned one as I reside in the US but I've had my share of maligned cars such as the Corvair.
Much of the Corvairs problem was it required a slightly different skill set to drive and GMs demographic at that point wasnt a sophisticated lot. They were no better or worse than the swing axle competition. But instead of GM trying to school it's buyers they failed. And GMs other problem was Nadar and he was looking to make a name for himself and chose that peg to hang his hat on. Instead of fighting it in court and letting the car succeed or fail on its merits GM tried to blackmail him and got caught. Nadar was full of hyperbole and GM was just stupid. The Corvair wasn't a bad cat all things considered it was just too sophisticated for its lunch pail 1961 crowd. GM failed the Corvair. The Corvair did not fail GM. True failures were the GM Vega and the 1980 GM Citation X and all clones it spawned. (The Citation X body series is the most recalled car series in US auto history)
That leyland challenge has made me almost buy 10 cars lol, never pulled the trigger on a Dolomite or an SD1, though I did go to see an SD1 in person though, shame it wasn't to be.
@@roguedalek900 curiously I like the Citation. I must be mental.
@@craig0769 The Citation it was a flawed execution (GM has standard MO here . Think Vega and 5.7 Olds V8 Diesel) and sunk by beancounters and crappy QC. My Aunt had an early in 80. It could of been a good car. The transmission hunted something terrible 2-3 gear at 30-40 MPH. And Quality Control in assembly was atrocious. GM seems eternally haunted by same issues QA bean counters and "shove the car out the dooritis" letting it get fixed with recalls. Lack of adequate engineering. Ford couldn't operate that way and certainly NOT Chrysler. Only GM could CONSISTENTLY operate like that .
Brilliant that you included John Shuttleworth! I was really hoping you would. Great video, thanks!
That was from a suggestion from a Patron. Good call!
My mums side were Shuttleworth , I'm 65 now .
As a kid I liked the looks of the Princess. At that time in Germany the car was an extremely rare sight...
I still like the design.
Thank you for this article which brought back memories of my father's car. Being a Vauxhall fan since the late 1960's he bought a Morris 1800 delivered 1/8/75. We all liked the shape & thought it stood out from the crowd. As mentioned "build quality" was not words found in BL's vocabulary. Within a year it began to rust on the sills and around the flanges of the doors & boot. Being a white car it quickly looked shabby and my father went back to Vauxhalls.
Thanks for your story and words of wisdom 🙏 from your Dads experiences, glad you returned to Vauxhall.
I still get the feeling that I am looking at a Peugeot / Talbot, especially with the uneven headlights... I also believe you deserve more subs when I look at the amount of detail you put into these video's. Keep it up!
Love the advert, with the interior view of the car driving along, complete with a pissed steering wheel, says it all about their perception of quality, even the marketing guys didn't give a toss🤣
I'm 80 years old. I lived through all this. All these failures were down to the British people. I'm English-English, born and bred and EDUCATED.
I had a Mk 1 Austin 1800 (which did have power steering as standard, contrary to his remark!) and Mk 2 and a Wolseley six. All fine cars.
I used to argue how much better my 1800 was than the new, floppy-mattress Mk3 Cortina, to which others would reply "yes, but look at it". To them style (or more specifically, their idea of style) was much more important. The Mk3 Cortina rusted where 1800s didn't. A matter of steel sourcing.
At this time, it was fashionable to ridicule BMC/BL at every opportunity. People turned to foreign imports. Two remarks here: (1) at the time it was the practice to export cars selected from the production line, so in most countries, foreign cars might be better than home-produced. (2) People who had bought foreign cars (unusual at that time) downplayed any failings that their new car had, a simple matter of face-saving, ie not having to admit that they might have made a mistake.
Japanese cars were held up as the example to us all. Lots of comments here. (1) in any particular class, the Japanese car was smaller (therefore lighter, cheaper to make, faster and better MPG per engine size); (2) The Japanese public wouldn't accept poorly manufactured products, whereas British customers knew that the car makers' lawyers made any legal action impossible, so we had to accept any car we bought, give or take a bit of warranty action. But laws are supposed to be made democratically in Britain - aren't they? (3) Even so, there were plenty of problems with 1970's Japanese cars, but they were generally covered up - given very little public airing, unlike BMC/BL cars about which no criticism was spared.
And the unions, so much blamed for BMC/BL troubles - was the work force not made up of British people? Was not the trouble due to a mixture of greed, laziness and political agitation?
A note about imports: across the channel, French car owners cursed their Renaults no less than that BMC/BL customers cursed theirs. But they still bought them because the average Frenchman knows that he must support his home industries or lose them. So, look round: which countries have two thriving indigenous car manufacturers?
Why have German cars always been so sought after? German work ethic. Germans want to work, they want to produce good work. ARBEIT!
Later I had two Princesses then an Ambassador, and loved all three.
Why is Britain so much influenced by clever-dicks? If you don't believe that it is, just look at the Brexit chaos and the present crop of Tory MPs - Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg, Farage, Patel..... Like Macron said, "a clown in charge of a circus".
Admittedly I was in primary school in the '80s, but with 20/20 hindsight the industrial problems of the '70s seemed to be blamed four-square on the unions, and with the advent of Thatcher (and the rise of Murdoch's papers) this became the accepted history. To my mind this unfairly excuses management's role in creating those problems - BMC was essentially created by a slow merger of several marques over a couple of decades, and the subsequent merger with Leyland only accelerated this process - one major problem was that the management of these individual marques had no intention of doing themselves out of a job as the result of these mergers, and the management structure seems to have become increasingly top-heavy over time. There also would appear to have been an incredibly short-sighted approach to doing business on the part of senior management, many of whom were used to being able to shift sub-par products onto the captive markets of the former Empire and Commonwealth if they couldn't sell them "at home". Designers like Harris Mann were genuinely ahead of the curve, but by the time those designs had passed through management committees (who usually dictated cost-cutting in the form of reusing older engine and gearbox arrangements - or even body panels designed for older cars) they had been woefully compromised.
It goes without saying that a lot of the industrial disputes were caused by pay and working condition issues, but I think a lesser-considered issue is that the morale of a technically-skilled workforce will always be affected by the quality of the products they're making, and in this case, the workers must have been aware of management's repeated mis-steps in terms of development; put bluntly, no-one wants to build a product that they think is crap, and the reason for that lack of confidence lay squarely with failures in management.
There was a calculated campaign by the right wing press to attack any nationalized industry, they still do it today and people still fall for it.
Absolutely spot on. Even now, the German Mittelstand companies understand the need to work in collaboration locally (jobs for local services etc), the government and the brands. I had an Audi 100LS in late 70s and that would rot on the front wings as much as and BL or Ford.
I had a friend who worked at port of Jacksonville Forida working for an import dealer In the early 70s BL (Think Austin Marinas) and were off loaded with Fiats (almost EVERY Fiat unloaded across the entire product line) both brands had issues with bad rust bubbles forming. The salt air transit worked them over badly. The stories he told me about having to reattach stuff falling off was insane. (again both Fiat & BL )
Plp
The 6 cylinder was always an E-Series, as it was in the Landcrab before it. The E-Series was specifically designed so a 6 pot version could be mounted transversely.
I seem to remember the 6 shooter having camshaft issues .They quilled under certain loads and could snap due to too few bearings carrying them.?
I love seeing these on the road now...they are so rare.
My parents had one of these when I was very young. They didn't keep it very long but I do recall that the back seat seemed enormous and it was extremely comfortable.
I was at Earls Court that year - the launch of the MkII 1100/1300.
The 2-door 1300 had a huge fluorescent light insight. “Ooh I wouldn’t like all that light!” exclaimed one lady in a Mrs Cutout-like voice.
Went there all on my own on the train from Stafford aged 15. The 1300 GT appeared that year too. And the Viva GT…
I was at earls court custom car show 1980 , that was great memories and the motor show around that era , when the Fuego was released and i sat in a Ferrari Testarossa , think it was '84 .
The Princess 2 was sold as an Austin Princess in NZ from 1978 - 1981 and next to the Maxi of the day, looked much newer and fresher. Not having a hatch at a time when most of the Japanese cars in NZ had hatch and wagon variants was stupid and typically short-sighted of British Leyland. Really good video.
My cousins had a Wolsey princess, liked the light in the emblem on the radiator. It was very roomy and I remember sitting on my mums lap in the front passenger seat and marvelling at the smooth ride over the high dash. One top tip my uncle learnt, was to feed the seatbelts behind the front seat and then plug them in. This stopped the seatbelt warning going off and allowed you to relax unhindered by any form of safety :-) My dad had a Cortina estate, and in comparison was a harder ride and even more basic dashboard. It is funny how reviewers compare the cars to current vehicles not their piers from the time, I'd say the princess was the great family car at the time, only the SD1 was better.
My father had a Wolseley when the 18/22 first came out, replacing his 2.9 jag (which had proven to be surprisingly reliable) partly as a result of high mileage driving and the recent fuel crisis. I don't remember him having any real issues with the car, however he hankered after a SD1 and it was sold or traded in as a result ... until his SD1 delivery was hit by the strikes induced long waiting list, so he picked up a Princess to cover the period. Not sure he ever had a car so unreliable, though I think it possibly rested less quickly than his second SD1 (the first being fine).
Personally always had a soft spot for the shape (but not the Ambassador). Might be partly due to my father having a pair, maybe as they are still different to much else.
In fairness it was a lovely looking car, shame about the rubbish build quality. Thank you for that very enjoyable bit of nostalgia.
It would be fun to see the story behind the Subaru Impreza.
Would it? I had one (a 1998 Impreza WRX) and I didn't think it was that interesting. It's just the old Subaru Legacy with a slightly smaller body -- an economy car with a boxer engine (after boxer engines had gone out of fashion), that happened to be all-wheel-drive. While everyone remembers the 22B with its flared arches, the Impreza in its original base model form with non-coloured bumpers and hubcaps was pretty ugly TBH: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/1993_Subaru_Impreza_%28GC3%29_LX_2WD_sedan_%282015-07-15%29_01.jpg I reckon the Leone and Brumby (Brat) are more interesting -- thoughts? :)
@@TassieLorenzo Yes, but it's got to be the most facelifted car ever. Basically the same chassis from 92-07.
My father bought a new 4 cilinder in 1977 and drove it more than 300.000 kilometers with no problems.
I am from Switzerland, so we only rarely have British cars (except for the odd Jaguar or Bentley). Around 20 years ago, there was somebody close to where I worked who had not one, but two Princesses. One orange, the other yellow. I only knew what cars those were when I saw the Leyland challenge on top gear. Never saw another one of these, ahem, rarities.
Switzerland was a really good sales country for Austin, Morris, Jaguar etc in the 60s but the disasters of the 70s destroyed the market for them
@@Spookieham my dad used to drive an XJ 6 in the 80ies, so I have a weak spot for British cars.
Oh the nostalgia that this great video brings me. When I was a Physics student at uni in the 1970's I had a friend in the Engineering department who was a BL sponsored graduate Apprentice. He once told me that on the BL production line the Princess/Ambassador was semi-affectionately referred to as "The Flying Turd". Personally I always thought that was rather harsh, and I had long-standing secret ambition to own one, but sadly I never did.
I remember driving it’s replacement, the Ambassador. The travel on the front suspension felt like about 33cm ! When you hit the brakes , the nose was buried in the road! It had a comfy ride though ….
Harsh breaking does that.
Thank You another great video!
I have a fondness for these old BL cars i worked for a BL dealer when i left school in 1982 and went through some of the ups and downs associated with BL in the 1988s. By the time i started work the Ambassador was in our show room and to be honest we never sold a single one to a paying customer from 1982 to 1984. We had them as hire cars they were roomy and had a good ride but the gear shift was awkward and of course no 5 speed box. I always liked the shape but as you said in your excellent video it was too little too late unfortunately.
When one thinks what might have been .... so sad as with so many BL cars missed opportunities and self inflicted wounds!
My friend’s Aunt had one with different trim options left and right, some Princess, some Ambassador. Previous keeper on the logbook was BL Experimental.
I do enjoy the way you say " hatchback" for some reason. :)...cheers on another informative episode.
It's easy to slag off BL at the time but lets be honest cars were generally terribly put together in that time. Usually car 'buffs' would bang on about European and Japanese cars but they rusted as bad and fell to bits as much as the British cars. Love how features that were derided at the time are suddenly praised in our oh so perfect modern world.
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON.
My dad's Audi wasn't the most reliable car in the world, but it was better than what BL was making (at least according to him).
@@BigCar2 Not having a dig at your video by the way (thoroughly enjoyable) just my opinion. There might have been a few exceptions like some expensive German cars but generally most mass-produced cars had the same issues wherever they came from of poor build quality and unions generally causing problems at the time. I do find it quite ironic that my nephew who's only 21 thinks cars like the Allegro and Maxi are cool considering how rubbished they were when they were still common.
@@cjbstevens7596 I think BLs problems were worst than others though, and of course when the British press started piling on, you've lost.
@@BigCar2 I agree with you there, the press weren’t (and still isn’t you can argue) exactly paragons of modesty.
Class!kind of ironic, but in a lot of ways it is iconic looking today especially with the four headlights, in the right colour.
I work with a young guy who has a 94 LS 400. They are such a classic to be appreciated by car enthusiasts for generations no doubt. I'm old enough to remember the champagne glass advertisement on television. Little did I know I was witnessing automotive history. I'm a small hot hatch Euro kinda nerd but I can appreciate anything automotive that's cool or interesting or just plain genius. The LS is what can be achieved with a vision and the resources to make it happen. What a car!
You put a huge amount of work into research. This plus excellent editing make for an interesting and enjoyable watch. Thanks very much.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Re: laminated windscreen as an optional feature, I remember the sedan version of the first-generation Opel Corsa was advertised as having it as standard equipment. In the mid-1980s.
We had two of them because they were cheap second hand. We drove both on holiday to the South of France and they were both very comfortable. More comfortable than most of the cars that followed. The reliability was the problem.
Always had a soft spot for the Princess, would love one now
I have a 2200 HLS LHD Manual trabsmission. In 1975 a 6 cylinder engine in that class was unique. The engine is ultra smooth. The car has fantastic looks and still appears modern today. Huge interior space, huge boot (though no hatch...). Never ever saw a car easier to work on than the Princess. Engine out in an hour, carbs replacing 30 min, starter motor 5 min, Pas pump 10 min, alternator (a bit akward...) 15 min, radiator 10 min.... real shame is the lack of the 5th gear!!! Real rubbish that is. Otherwise really a good car with fantastic roadholding! And thanx to the old guy from Belgium, who had bought her new and completely waxoiled her with Dinol from new.
Where ever you turn up... people desperately try to work out what car it is... Nearly died out in GB and as good as unknown on the continent.
Fascinating episode and once again, the story of the British car industry is played out in a single model. It's such a shame that time and time again, innovative and creative design at BL was sunk by poor planning and industrial relations. The design I think has aged well with the earlier twin headlight cars carrying a hint of Alfa GTV about them. Sadly, most people were after reliability and practicality in this class of car and BL comprehensively couldn't deliver, so the end was inevitable. It would be fascinating to see how things would have played out if the car had got a decent engine and 5 speed box along with decent build and reliability - I suspect it would have won a lot of very loyal customers.
I owned a brand new wedge Princess shortly after launch. I loved it to drive.Like a giant Mini. I think the shape was way ahead of time. Simar to today's focus / astra I think. Great ride. Totally reliable. Slightly underpowered. Amazing brakes . Nice steering but low geared. Delivered brand new with damaged bonnet badly repaired,minor dents, big scratch across dashboard, torn seats. Pre-delivery non existent- bonnet would not open due to rust ,boot would not shut. Fluid levels all wrong. Leyland eventually fixed everything but it rusted badly. Sold it back to same dealer after 18 for a TR7 and received a very good price 10 per cent more than new. But was a period of 20 per cent inflation.
Amazing that they managed a redesign of the Princess (only door skins remained unchanged) yet when the Ambassador emerged it looked almost the same 🤔
"If your ideas are good they rise, and if they're a bit crap they sink." - James May
True, and the "bit crap" part is such a wide-ranging term, and people definitely knew that good design was one thing and quality build and reliability were needed too.
As always, an excellent presentation.
The Princess was originally designed as a five door hatchback. The boot was adopted as Leyland ran out of money for new tooling . Leyland also had inadequate presses so many of these larger panels had to be made in two or three parts. It's for this reason that the panel alignment was so poor especially on the Rover SD1.
I had a mate in Poland with a Princess he needed new suspension parts as he had used mineral oil to refill them instead of ethylene glycol. This was when Poland was still communist, I had to send them through the Catholic Church family parcel route, they looked like RPG7 grenade heads
BL had three unique futuristic cars with the Princess, Rover SD1 and the Jaguar XJS. After nearly a century of design, all cars today are SUVs that all look like bricks, & will be forgotten by the end of this decade.
Love these videos... despite that I have never seen or heard about most of these cars before. 👍
Great channel, great content, and the comments are the best I've seen on UA-cam.
Cheers everyone, appreciated!
What a lovely reminder of being a kid. My dad had a 2000HL Princess and loved it because of it’s superior towing ability for our caravan over the competition. I remember my friend getting an Ambassador and me being really jealous until we replaced with a Montego which was in those days futuristic!
In '83 I got myself a second-hand Princess 2200. Liked the smoothness of the 6-cylinder and the great seats and especially the exterior design. But the car was unreliable and pieces took ages to be delivered to Germany. It took two months to replace a leaking water pump, and after the Princess sat at the dealership for six weeks with a broken ball joint, I gave it up, sweared on British cars and bought a Peugeot.
I used to like BL and had, over time, minis, 1100/1300, maxi and never had any problems with them. They weren't flashy and just did their job of providing transport.
I remember respraying three of these in around '81.
That bonnet seemed immense !
In cellulose I really struggled to keep a wet edge, it felt more like painting a truck.
I actually grew to like the shape after rubbing the whole body down.
I used to wash my dads asca kids. Huge bonnet...in beautiful metallic ...brown.
Amazing leg room. Really luxurious.
I liked the brief John Shuttleworth clip 'It's the car that I revere'. I drove a Montego for 400 miles or so and liked it a lot. A friend's Montego boot lock jammed when we had just loaded up all the gear for a gig, bad timing, some damage was done opening it. The Maxi had 5 gears and was a good car, handled well and went like s**t off a shovel, the Princess and Ambassador had only 4 gears, big mistake.
Looks like a piece of cheese wedge, in fact in the British Leyland challenge on Top Gear, one of the presenters says "he's bought a piece of cheese!".
I also remember the two other badged models, Morris and Wolseley, but the less said about those THE BETTER.
Ai had one of these and I enjoyed driving it , I used to take the back seat out to carry my demo windows quite amazing how much you could get in there . Plus a big boot for holiday luggage while the wife and my two girls were very comfortable.
I remember driving my friends dad’s ambassador and it was terrible. It drove like a shopping trolley with spongy brakes and unpredictable throttle response. I think almost everything that BL produced was worse than whatever your other option was. One interesting thing about this video is that I did feel for about 3 minutes after you mentioned “Diablo” that there were some good intentions behind the ADO71 initially.
Funny that, the brakes were the go to choice for small volume performance manufacturers & tuners for years.
My next door neighbour had an Austin Princess!
As a kid in the 70's I remember that same summer Logan's Run the TV series was on... and as far as I was concerned, this was it... the future was here!
So when my other neighbour got a Citroen Safari that hovered (what it looked like to me), I was convinced that by the time I was as bald as him.. . I would be living on the moon!
Well, I don't live on the moon and I never did have a Princess... though I was once propositioned by a Duke! 🇬🇧🤫
My dad purchased a 2.0 HLS manual in Tara Green with a vinyl roof back the 80s....DTH 604V....i remember thinking we had a really cool car at the time.... Arm rests in the front seats... Arm rest and cigarette lighter in the back plus to side lights on the rear panels..... It never let us down apart from a thermostat having to be replaced... I know British Leyland cars have been hammered over the years for shoddy workmanship and reliability but our princess really was a great car and I'd buy it back in a heart beat if I ever came across it again..... 👍
Great video, as always! I remember watching the Top Gear episode about it and thinking, what is that thing..
Very comprehensive research behind this history. A fascinating story and incredibly good selection of archive photos that demonstrate design evolution and comparisons with rival makes. It's a long video but interest is kept up all the way through. Thank you for the work you must have put in to make this film for our benefit. Great stuff.
Glad you liked it!
I was a child of the 70's and have always liked the Princess. Just a shame it was built by BL. The design was well ahead of its time but let down by Britain at the time. The Ambassador was a tragic "evolution". How ironic the Montego that replaced it was just a dull three box shitbox!
Thanks for uploading another intresting video about BL.
Keep up the good work.
👍👍👍🇸🇪
I remember in the late 1970s my father had a brand-new Austin Princess for a few days as a loan or hire car - while his own car was in the garage for a service.
On his first trip with the car (a Friday) my father had to drive "up north" and during his journey on the motorway (at 70 mph) the rear three-quarter window of the car was "sucked" out of the car - along with the contents of the parcel shelf....
Come the weekend it was my birthday and I was taken to a local restaurant to celebrate - my father driving, my step-mother in the passenger seat, and I was sat in the back. During the journey to the restaurant we had to stop at a junction as the traffic lights had turned red. As the car came to a stop, I did not: The rear seats, with me sat on them, continued forward and I ended-up in the rear footwell of the car:. The rear seats had never been bolted/attached to the rest of the car...
Some British Leyland cars had their "charms" but, looking back, you can see why the world's 6th biggest car maker (as BL once was) with its terrible management, trade unions of the time, (often) uncaring workforce, vastly better competition from Japan and so on - meant that the company, and (to a large extent) the British car industry was no more...
Bought a princess 2 L in standard sand colour no power steering 30k on the clock it is the best car I have ever owned removed the sill trims to stop the rust they caused scrapped it 15 years later with 150k on the clock same clutch and mechanically OK just the door bottoms starting to rot only things changed were one suspension unit two cam drive belts and usual brake parts biggest pain was the hydraulic clutch a cable would have been a lot better petrol consumption was high because of the averall weight but it was the strongest car I have ever owned one day a small truck ran in the back all that was damaged was the bumper mounted rear fog light they had the reputation along with the Ambassador from accident companies as the safest car on the roads the long bonet was designed to move up over the windscreen in a collision and accident figures proved it four new doors and a turbo diesel engine with separate gearbox and it would have gone on many more years
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20:54.... the panel gaps are just amazing :D
Finally! Thank you, I’ve been waiting for so long for that!
I am really looking forward to hearing your more "nuanced" perspective of the economical situation in the UK in the 70s of the last century. Maybe that'll learn us a lesson for today. Germany was quite different at the time: the lost war was not so long ago and the legislation was very keen on forcing managers and workers to talk to each other. It was and still is compulsory to give the workers half of the seats on the board with the chairman having the decisive vote, him being appointed by the shareholders of course. As of today I sometimes wonder whether we are stuck with these ideas from the past but in those days it seemed to do the trick.
Btw : I first thought you were thinking they needed to use the wretched Triumph Stag engine in the Princess to make her shine but then you were referring to the Rover six in line, that might have worked.
As someone pointed out, the Triumph engine was used for the RWD Rover SD1, so it may not have worked in the FWD Princess.
Thankyou for this gesture towards balance. One really doesn’t know where to start with the ignorance and naïveté that leads to union-bashing like this. The greater failings of macho management in the 90s are worth mentioning, as are the results of “streamlining, corporate predation, and board-room politics… but anyway… Thankyou.
I had a conversation several year ago ., with a guy who worked in British Steel sales ., he said hawking steel stock round the car makers., was more than a some what depressed ., as the makers cut the margin to almost take it away prices..
10:08 I have no idea if they’re even involved with the story of British Leyland, but I'm still reminded of this entry from the ‘fortune cookie’ program found on Unix and Linux (which displays a short, randomly-selected amusing anecdote, story, quote, joke, and the like from a database of thousands) which I first read many years ago: “Lucas is the source of many of the components of the legendarily reliable British automotive electrical systems. Professionals call the company ‘The Prince of Darkness’. Of course, if Lucas were to design and manufacture nuclear weapons, World War III would never get off the ground. The British don’t like warm beer any more than the Americans do. The British drink warm beer because they have Lucas refrigerators.”
Lucas the supplier for brakes etc.,?
@@canerguener8664 I believe so, yes. Unfortunately, the quote is all the context I have.
Lucas Industries, Birmingham..Source : Wiki
Thank you
I had 2 Princesses and 1 Ambassador in my late teens to mid 20's.Not a young man's car, you may think. My Escort and Capris driving mates would take the Mickey out of me, but boy, the girls loved them. As a bonus, you could take the neck restraint off and the seats would fold completely flat, 2 could sleep in comfort. I travelled many many miles in them. Good vid.
I had a Princess and found it a very good, Ran well , plenty of room in the car and a massive boot. I had it for 4 years without problem. i think it was under rated.
My father bought a wolsey 2200 in 1975, lovely car with a nice interior.
Within 4 months of ownership all the wheel bearings failed were replaced and failed again, the cam cover leaked oil from day one and was serviced by the dealership it came home with running issues, it turned out they had set the igniting timing to the 4 cylinder engine setting this happend a couple of times.
Also my sister used to get car sick in it, but no other cars we put this down to the hydrolastic suspension. 7ish months in he traded it back to the dealer for a nearly new Audi.
Owned a Princess, one of the top three cars I have purchased, still have loads of pictures, Remember back in the day with a couple of cushions the wife two kids and me all sat in the front, no seat belts.
I love your videos. I remember asking my parents about the British car industry and the common response was "it was the unions" or "the cars weren't built well" Nobody ever said that the concepts were actually pretty good but the execution was hampered by waiting lists and the public opinion. It seemed we were doomed when big companies, like ford (who sold cars over the entire world) simply spent more on development and out outmaneuvered them.
Diablo....well they say the devils in the design.
I can remember one of the main talking points about these when first launched was..... of the incredibly confusing range nomenclature.
Those 1st gen 'tropizoidal' head lights burnt a hole in R&D and production costs of epic proportions.
Both Osram and Lucas told BL it was a tough cookie to do properly due to the reflector technology needed, Cibie refused to get involved due to unpaid bills from a previous exercise.
BL chose to ignore this advice completely.....because they had already tooled up the front end components before asking the question🤣. I love gems like this this, used to work alongside ex BL R&D engineers.
Another great video good sir, and another that unfortunately highlights how Britain was back then.
Was never a fan of the wedge shape, especially when you didn’t even get a full hatch (initially), but it’s aged quite well.
Bell Hop - the perfect intro to any video...
I was really wondering why Andy had the fibre optic lamp behind him all of a sudden! 😂
I got some Ferrero Rocher to put in there as well, but too late. They make an appearance in the Optional Extra video.
Great video…. And it even included a Ritmo 😉😁👍
What a heap of scrap
Had a 78 1800 princess for a while in the 1980s, loved it, comfortable, most of my mates were driving xr3i or manta's they couldn't understand me or me them
That car with its wedge shape design always reminded me of a doorstopper we used in the 60’s/70‘s.
I had a 2200 van den plas.. super luxurious ride …. It was a £500 banger lasted a year, clutch went and got £200 in the 80s for scrap, oh, and a full vinyl roof.
Fascinating video, thank you.
I had the misfortune to drive one of these back in 1983, it was like trying to steer a boat. It was an unwieldy beast and had very little oomph. Can’t really think of anything positive to say about it, so I’ll leave it there. Sorry.
I always had to fill up the regional managers car at the petrol station, the times I drove his red 2.3litre Cortina to fill it up, then he changed it to a Mint Green Ambassador Vanden Plas with a chocolate interior, I loved driving the Ambassador and I still remember it more than the Cortina!!
First time I've ever heard of this car was on Top Gear British Leyland challenge. Still my favorite TG episode/challenge to date
The fibre optic lamp is the perfect touch.
When I worked for Rank as a buyer, I had use of one of these as a pool car. I liked it. When the transport department decided that, after a couple of recalls due to various problems, they were going to be replaced by the Cortina, there was a revolt by those people had them as their company cars. Much under rated car, undeserved.
I love these videos about BL's cars.
Check out the Optional Extra video - I give my opinion on the factors behind BL's self-destruction.
Nice to watch this once again. Princess is one of my favourite cars of the BL era. So many missed opportunities though, what with the absence of a 5 speed gearbox with the E series engined models, no rear hatch on the Princess. Even the top of the range Ambassadors lacked a rev counter!
Had several when they were current 1800. 1700 and the 2.0 Lt all were reliable did good mpg and at the time I was driving them around 30.000 miles a year. A much underated car by British car knockers
Always thought if the Princess was French or German, it would now be elevated to the status of iconic.
Constantly slapped down by the UK press, it was far better looking than most on offer at the time.
Now we're swamped with euroblobs that are only definable by the badge, maybe the saying 'Be careful what you wish for' should be taken to heed
Worked on them in the mid 70s. Enjoyable car
I had a Princess 2 and then an Ambassador, both with the O series engine. They were both bargain second hand buys and I really liked them - economical, quite lively, easy to work on (suspension excepted), comfortable and reliable and with excellent carrying capacity. A shame so many believed the negativity about BL and its products and didn't buy them.
I was hoping John Shuttleworth would put in an appearance. At 21.17 I wasn't disappointed!
Another brilliant Big Car video!
Mm My My yet another great show i fully enjoyed.....many thanks
Thanks Gregory. Check out the Optional Extra video - lots more good stuff!
Bit of history there. I remember my dad having a Princess automatic, Ambassador and a Montego..