Swedish woman repeatedly says “banana” to demonstrate philosophical differences between two cultures that developed completely isolated from one another
Sad thing really, how most media is now localized instead of just translated. Growing up reading translations, newer subtilities always throw me off because they don't match with the Japanese audio
Well that's why I dislike English dub so much as it's changed to fit feminist propaganda. I've seen this too many times to even call it hyperbolic or reaching. Not mention feminists themselves talked about how Nier Automata was a " Perfect feminist game " because of the amount of female characters in it. 2B and the female characters in the game are great not because they are women it's because they act like you or me and don't act like these communist who put their stamp on anything that has a group of women in it. I'd also like to say that for English dubs they tend to not have any like and or passion that the Japanese actors and actress have for their work. This's why I love Japanese culture and almost everything about it. They don't have to subscribe to a Feminism which's just another mask for communism and always have been under the guise of equality and female empowerment. They can show both a male and female, heck even children going through awful crap and do it well that people will have certain thoughts and feelings about, but they do it in such a way that it's relatable to the people watching it. Feminists and SJWs will see a 2D girl getting harassed or even raped then have a fit about how women have always been oppressed and anime is proof of that, yet they don't realize that's what they're doing to everybody else. Lastly you come away with learning something either about yourself or others. The reason feminists and SJWs try to stop people from doing that, is manly it makes people think and wake up to the world around, but it also makes them question the feminists themselves and they can't have people doing that now can they. " I mean how could people disagree with women voting and going to college? are you some kind of sexist who hates women and every race on this planet? " All an all Nier Automata is a masterpiece that I and I'm sure millions of others are glad wasn't infested with politics and man-hating nonsense.
I get what you're going for by using this quote but be careful where you use this. Heaps of localisation teams have been caught changing huge amounts of games/movies/tv shows because they personally didn't like the original in some way. A Localiser's job is to make sure that the content is understandable to an audience that doesn't speak the language. A Localiser's job is NOT to rewrite the original work.
The Nier Automata voice actors did a talk at Nekocon two years ago where they explained why the characters (including 2B) were so different. Basically, it comes down to not having the full script in advance of recording and the voice direction. They have to estimate the personality/feel of a character based on the lines they are given to read and the directions of the VO director. And they try their best, but sometimes they miss the intent of a line if it isn't apparent in the script.
I think it goes to show how English voice talents on dubbing roles often lack the level of direction the original cast had, and of the inputs from the directors themselves. It shows most especially in smaller, less big-budget titles like the one on topic.
That proves wrong people who defend bad localization as deliberate and necessary for "western audiences to understand the plot or the emotions". Not only is this argument patronizing and insulting to Western audiences, but it is flat-out wrong. Localization that changes characters' intent, personality or emotion often comes from a lack of direction and understanding of the actual emotion that's supposed to be portrayed. Thanks for your comment.
From the video itself, the “I’m good” line is a clear example. You could say those two simple words in a _Variety_ of ways, from contentment, stubbornness, facade, hesitancy, dismissiveness, and everything in btwn. In Japanese, the equivalent to “I’m good” is spoken, but the tone is more hesitant. In English, it’s spoken dismissively.
I'm an assistant language teacher in Japan, and my Elementary School students always laugh when I have to teach them stress patterns on loan words. Banana and Tomato are the two big ones that always get a giggle.
It is fascinating how the differences in both the English and Japanese languages can subtly change how a character is percieved, be it a game or anime. I wonder.....how would 2B be perceived in other languages?
In spanish it's a little easier to keep the same feeling but almost always we get the english translated version and we adapt from there, that it changing though .
I've been wanting a discussion of this localization for so long. 9S is really cold to the lost child in that side-quest in English, but he speaks calmly and kindly to him in Japanese. I knew there was a lot more, so thank you.
I think the ammount of people that dislike autómata characters fue to being "enotionless" comes from most people that played un english for that reason, they took out 2b, 9S and A2 the nuances of their softer side In favour of a sarcastic cold Tone...
Kira Buckland talked about not knowing exactly what the game is about when doing the voice acting due to non disclosure, maybe she wasn't given enough context for some one liner at earlier point of the game, not until she could grasp what the character is all about later on? She mentioned needing to go change some earlier recording as the tone was not quite what she think should be after finishing the later emotional and heavy part
she was also on some streams with 9S' Eng VA as he played through the game. You could hear her criticizing her own performance or complimenting it depending on certain parts. it was actually cute, and also an interesting look into the mind of a VA when brought onto a project they know little about but _want_ to do their best with.
@@Xenmaru00 Yea I kind of consumed most things related to Nier Automata, the concert reading with the corresponding VA reading parts are wonderful as well
The "ma'am" part is a good example of how languages are difficult to adapt, and how this work can vary a lot between different languages. In english is obviously difficult to adapt something like the formalism of "-san" but as soon as you said it i realized that in italian it could be easly traduced in "she", and that's because we tend to use the 3rd person to talk with someone we have little or no confidence at all, or someone who is on an higher level in a hierarchy (like a teacher, a professor, a superior, someone important or simply an elder that is neither familiar or friend). And in this case 2B could have replied "just give me the ", and that would have been perfect. Sorry for the wall of text, but I find all of this very fascinating.
Something i've been thinking for years is that 9S is also lost in translation - in English he comes across as a bit of a simp for 2B and a bit nervous whereas in Japanese he's very cool, calm in collected in the way he speaks. Gotta love Hanae Natsuki.
Have been watching all of your NieR/Drakengard related videos for the past few days, and they are more than helpful to understand so much about these universes ! Thanks so much for making those, it's great to have content creators still making stuff around those games
We miss you, Aurora. Hope you are living your fullest life. Thank you for restoring access to these delightful works for us to continue to enjoy in times good and bad.
Honestly 9S’ personality was more lost in translation than 2B, although I did find the English 9S super impressive, especially in the more emotional scenes. One clear example being the end of robo dojo side quest, where 9S and 2B tries to mask their guilt with nonchalance. The level of complicated emotion did not translate well into English at all, which isn’t really anyone’s fault, even the Japanese version requires you to understand the context and character developments for the guilt behind their indifferent voices to come through. English 9S is definitely more of a good boy, while Japanese 9S sounds mischievous, and maybe even a little bit mean at times.. Just something that erked me a little as I played/watched playthroughs in both languages. Also that ending D final scene in Japanese made me really uncomfortable because how real and raw the near death sounds were..:’(
Will you make a "lost in translation" video for 9S too? I love his english voice but I think his character got quite changed too and I'd love to hear your thoughts on 9S' changes as well!
Is a copletely diffirent experience playing the game in Japanese than in English. And that it shows so much about how the "japanese culture" is embeded in some dialogues in the game. Still the game is a masterpiece. I loved playing it in both languages.
As a translator working in this industry, I can confirm that this video is spot-on and an amazing analysis of both the language and cultural/cognitive aspects of translation. You rarely get this level of nuance even from bilinguals or professional translators talking about this topic. My company (the orange one) and I usually stick to keeping honorifics and all those other cultural artifacts, but what Square's done with 2B and 9S is perfectly valid as well. I'm a slightly different person when I'm speaking in Japanese as opposed to when I'm speaking in English, even with the same person. It's just how it is. Human (and android) identity is a fickle thing, and there's nothing wrong with the conscious decision to convey that realism at the expense of accuracy in other respects. At the end of the day, translation isn't just about choosing the right answer, but also about choosing how to be wrong and sticking with it.
My brother has a shirt that reminds me of how the way we say things in English changes the meaning. "Let's eat, Grandma. Let's eat Grandma. Commas save lives." Granted, that's more of a shirt about grammar, but the way you stress the words changes the meaning. Kind of like the banana thing you mentioned
You're absolutely correct. My Psychology teacher once made a point by writing on the whiteboard two of the same sentences with two different emojis at the end of them to show how even body language such as facial expressions can change the meaning context of a sentence. What he wrote looked like this: A. Can you meet me in my office? : ) B. Can you meet me in my office? ; ) He went on to say that one is school appropriate while the other would most likely get him fired. xD
It's always tricky to really nail down the differences between japanese language and english because a lot of what we say is based on culture, not language itself. Theres things that need to be expressed in japanese culture that just don't need to be in a western culture and vise versa. You end up with cases where a direct translation IS possible but would seem silly.
I am glad my brother and I weren't the only ones seeing this, its great to see others agree as well. also, I hope you know your are best girl to a lot of people and your videos are very refreshing on topics rarely spoken.
Thanks for hour job. Every time i watch one of your videos about nier in a second all my memories wake up reminding me how this game hurted me so bad. I never came back in these two years playing nier again. The contrast between respect and some kind of fear is still here and i'm sure i will have to wait many years hoping to play another title so powerful. What a fanboy am i hahahahhaha.
Even with this choice in translation, she is still my favorite fictional character ever. I wouldn't change the story or dialogue as I love the pacing of the connection between 9S and 2B.
I actually adore 2B's delivery of the "I'm good" line, because it almost sounds like she's bitten into a bad apple. There's some choked off emotion in it, it's not just her usual clipped responses to 9S. But the part about san rather than ma'am make so much more sense holy cow. In English she seem mad that he's calling her old. This video ended up reminding me of the difference between Japanese Zero and English Zero from Drakengard 3. I LOVE both of them but English Zero is more angry and harsh while Japanese Zero is more dismissive in her harshness, not as wrathful
There's a thing in japanese culture about never dismissing a yes/no question outright. When you would answer "no i'm good (thank you)" anywhere else in the world, a japanese person will say "maybe another time" "just a little". Just read another comment that the english VAs said they acted without the japanese VO, but without that information you could think the way 2B dismisses 9S was localized appropriately.
On the subject of the West not having many kuudere-type characters, the only example I can think of that fits the trope as well as 2B is Trinity from The Matrix. She's quiet, focused, serious, generally indifferent to anything outside her mission, but her emotional side comes through in strenuous moments.
So far I'm 6 minutes in and as I understand it the English performance comes across as a more dismissive and sarcastic 2B while Japanese is generally softer and hesitant. I think both have their merits. 2B doesn't like showing her emotions so acting defensive and sarcastic in some cases fits but it still shows she's feeling something. She's upset and sarcastic to hide that she doesn't want to feel. While also just having a softer hesitation and tone in the Japanese shows a want to feel but a hesitation to do so because of her orders. Both I think gets her character arc and general personality across pretty alright. Both show that she does indeed have emotion and a hesitation to show it but do it differently. Of course I haven't finished yet and this is just my rambling. This is a great analysis so far Valkyrie. Love your stuff.
The problems with 2b softer lines In english it's that came across as Someone that it's just tired like doing chores, she Is indeed tired of fighting that never ending cycle but In english doesn't reflect the Weight she has on her shoulders by restraining her emotions, it's just sounds More like Someone who doesn't care sometimes...
I actually asked Kira about this today(crunchyroll expo). While she neither confirmed or denied this specific case, she did say that this sort of things certainly happens and when it does, it is usually decided by the localization team prior to even hiring the voice actors. Which, in turn, means that she might not actually know if it did happen, if they didn't tell her but just instructed her to do it the way she did. Consequently, it's not as much Yui Ishikawa vs Kira Buckland, but (presumably) Yoko/Akihiko versus... whoever the shot caller of the localization team is. She says that if you don't like the DIRECTION a character is dubbed, that's usually not the voice actor's fault/choice (ofc, quality of the dub is a different issue)
Honestly I'd like to say I really love this video. Long rant below. TLDR: I like subs over dubs. I found that literal text translations in media from one language to another are often quite on point. When it comes to localization of more complex things like jokes or cultural references, usually the localization team does a really good job too. Don't get me wrong, it's a really hard job and I always really appreciate them for their hard work. As you have more elegantly explained in this video, usually it's the "character" of a character that I notice gets lost in translation, especially when it comes to voice acting in my opinion. I often get the feeling that the emotional tone usually gets based off of the script instead of basing it off of the script AND tone of the original. I'm never sure if it's intentionally that way or not though. It's like first comes the literal translation of the script to convey what was spoken, then comes the emotional interpretation of the translated script (which actually is a lot of pressure on the voice actors). Unfortunately, a 1 to 1 interpretation would usually need a good understanding of how both languages feel and it's not really timely learning a whole new language. When speaking it's a combination of both words and emotion. On top of that, the choice of vocabulary can both influence and be influenced by the interpreted emotion. I.e, the interpreted emotion can actually bring a change to what's being said, which can end up going down a deep rabbit hole further diverging the interpreted and original character. Just going off of the first example given (3:23), the Japanese version just about literally translates as (although there may be better translations) "(It's) going to reuse dead androids to attack us!?" Stated more as an exclamation than a question and, as mentioned, aprehensively. Again as mentioned, in English it's more sassy and dismissive. Honestly I that it could have been said aprehensively in English quite simply, but I feel that the interpretation of the translated script could have been a result of lack of emotional context/reference, wether or not this was intentional. A different interpretation of the !? could have led to the word "seriously" getting inserted due to the perceived weight of the matter, then leading to the sassy emotion emerging as a result. These differences would be small by themselves, but cumulatively they shape how we see a character. I'm not sure of others but I tend to "snowball" my interpretations of a character, say in a book, until rarely something happens which might cause me to change my thoughts about them. I'm not talking "character development", more so "oh so they may have actually said it this way" kind of thing. Honestly if just given a script, there could be multiple ways of interpreting a character's "character" and I really enjoy seeing (or hearing) another person's interpretation. It's like breathing a new life into them, which sometimes even warrants new playthroughs in my opinion. Again, I do enjoy finding these differences though when it comes to localized media like this. It's really interesting how different a story or character can be even though literally the script is exactly the same. In general, I happen to find myself gravitating towards original content over localized content. Stuff originally in English I prefer it in its original form, and likewise for others, like Japanese. SUBS OVER DUBS Anyways, I've ranted enough and I'll stop here.
Great video, as someone who works with translation I really enjoyed it. Thank you for taking the time to shed some light on this topic, rarely do people think about the challenges that stem from translation and some of the problems that might arise from it.
This isn’t the kind of video I though it would’ve been lol but I learned something so that was cool, I was searching up nier automata stuff because I 100% it recently and found your channel and your videos are nice 👌 subbed
There's actually a recorded livestream let's play series of Nier Automata with the English voice actors of 2B and 9S playing through Nier Automata. If i recall correctly, I think there was one point where the voice actors mentioned that they actually didn't 100% knew the details of the story/game before doing the voices. I think one of them even said how they probably woulda redone some of the lines in the playthrough. I think this was probably the biggest reasons there were slight descrepancies in character sometimes while being 100% on point in others. It also shows due to the fact that most of the descrepancies were in the small talking done between the characters rather than the main story voice lines. Imo, 2B's dere side shows more through the small talk and side quests rather than what she does in the main story while the main story emphasizes 2B's loyalty and steadfastness. It'd make sense for someone to misunderstand the small talk lines and portray them as sharp and curt if they were only given the literal translation to voice and the main story without any context for the side quests/small talk or where it even took place in the story.
This is really informative and well researched. I also really like how fair and respectful your perspective was to everyone involved in the creation and localization of the game.
I think the major reason for the difference for 2B's tone during less emotional moments is due the localization director's view of the character. 2B has a commanding pose in promotional art, and her basic walk cycle exudes confidence, to say nothing of her obvious combat prowess. To Westerners, it may not make sense for 2B to be showing the slight vulnerabilities in her speech that she seems to in Japanese, while at the same time her body language implies she's maintaining the composure of an experienced, professional killer.
That lack of Nuance it's what bothers me In english localization, they can't help but put the cardboard "badass" showoff upfront for any capable and expert character and that kilos the nuances between them, not everyone covers her emotions in a sarcastic and cold way, that suits More A2 than 2b, but they see her as "weak" if they just drop a Little the "badass" persona...the same with kaine, it's really superficial that s Lot of people of the west loves her More for being a foulmouthed abrassive b*ch than the nuances of her personality due to a life of trauma and pain
i just wanna take a moment to honestly thank you for making this, to thank you for still paying attention to nier automata and putting the effort and work to make this video for the enjoyment of your viewers, thank you
This is such a wonderful video! Thank you so much for your analysis of the differences in localization- if this came out while I was still in college I’d have shown it to my professor for the translation course I took!
The talk about differing character archetypes is actually an interesting explanation. I still don't agree with dubs constantly changing characters (particularly 'strong female characters') into snarky assholes, but that point at least makes sense for it. Poor Kaine and Zero reeeeeeally got that treatment I felt, so 2B is definitely not even a horrible offender, but something about her English VA's tone overall makes me feel they intended her to be more dry and sarcastic rather than sometimes awkwardly softspoken because of her focus on getting the job done, and it was offputting for me. Overall a really great video! You brought up a lot of points I hadn't thought about in how English and Japanese differ, which was refreshing. My native tongue is English, so you'd think it would be more obvious, but... I guess that's a testament to how unconscious these things become.
Thanks, i hate that tendency of making all a badass bitch without nuances, it feels superficial and forced, just like the cardboard cool Gary stu guy...ohh she's bot like other girls, she can bebcute butnits foul mouthed and sarcastic, wow queen* when in Kaine at least it's ab obvious facade and upfront wall and bot her real personality when she's actually craves and thrives for a piece of love and caring In her life
I came to this channel because of Nier: Automata and stayed because, well, this channel is awesome. To finally come full circle makes me feel so happy and kinda proud of how much Sophie has grown. Thanks for the consistently magnificent content.
The English 2B gives a impression of no emotion/cool in character. While the JP 2B shows impression of suppressed emotion, which is more in line with "emotion is prohibited" theme for 2B
I usually watch em twice, because I can't focus on what's being said. ...I can't focus on the second attempt too but it's a good excuse to hear Sophie twice.
it's also interesting that Yui Ishikawa also voices this character archeotype (Mikasa from Attack on Titan and the titular Violet Evergarden), but regardless she does a splendid job at portraying the character emotions like that
Something I really enjoyed in the English version that I'd be interested in whether it was present (or at least as noticeable) in the original is that initially 2b is presented in a very stereotypical AI/robot fashion. One of her first lines is the repeated "Emotions are prohibited" but as the game goes on we learn that rather than game being about the trope of the cold calculating robots only caring about hard logic, this is simply 2b's character. Many of the other androids, even the machines, are openly emotional or caring, but 2b is different. It makes us suddenly more interested in her. It was a really interesting play on my expectations as to the character when she was first introduced, and fit well with the way Taro often reframes events and characters, but now I'm wondering if my reading is more down to the interpretation during localisation than original intent.
I'm not trying to get into the dubs vs subs debate, I am of the position that both are valid options, and you should not feel ashamed of your preference to experience a japanese work in its dubbed form. However, I do think it's important to have in mind that a proper study and understanding of a work recquires an awareness, understanding, and value of the cultural and interpretative context behind it. Inherent qualities that define it beyond words. Localization is a very difficult job, it goes way beyond understanding the words and translating them to fit the narrative context. In a work as deep as NieR Automata, the task just becomes immeasurably harder. Persona 4 is the one work that for me is the perfect example of effective localization, it's a heavily japanese game, and the localization never shies away from that fact, the game keeps its soul, its cultural value. Great video!
so the japanese version shows some more vunerabilities, and a stronger sense of earnestness, where as the american version is more hardened badass. yes the japaneses version might have a bit more nuiance and complexity to her character, but honestly both characterisations are pretty fantastic tbh. even the american version 2b comes across as a very strong and relatable character, and having only played in english i still loved 2B. so both did a phenominal job. and like valkyrie said, on the emotional high points both absolutely nailed it.
I found that the Japanese script was more of a typical "stoic" character myself... and I thought that the western localization actually worked a lot better with a bit more complexity but that's just me... both are very amazing characters
@@thepurehealer1279 I thought the English localization made 2B more of a typical "feminist" character kinda like Captain Marvel, which was a big turn off for me.
@@Александр-р9ч8в even as a pretty right leaning guy... I didn't see it, she isn't really advocating something or considering herself above she is just kinda... mean, rude, and standoffish, which isn't necessarily a bad negative trait for a character especially since she does warm up a lot to 9s and other surrounding characters
There's another scene that changed the tone of 2B in terms of context. When 2B and 9S were rescuing the little sister machine in the desert, she asked several questions to 9S. When he was asked about making children, 9S asked 2B for help. 2B was a bit hesitant in Japanese and said she can't help even if 9S asked for her help in his desperate voice. Where in English version, 2B just sounded as if she heard something ridiculous and worthless, that she almost dismissed 9S's help. I don't know if 2B reacted in that way in Japanese version because making children was a sensitive issue to tell children even to machines or it was because 9S, the fond of her life, asked in a desperate tone but she didn't want to do anything with her enemy. Anyway, it was interesting for me to see the difference between Japanese and English versions.
Loved the video. I also feel that another aspect is Japanese doesn't mind too much about ambiguity and letting implication do a lot of the work in the language itself. Whereas languages such as English and such tend to want more clarity and directness which seem to also come across in the culture as well.
tl;dr : 2B's outward persona is different, but we see that internally she's pretty well the same. I suspect this was intentional to make it easier for each audience to more directly empathize when her true self is revealed The more personal response; spoilers below: I think I could get why it was localized and handled this way, and I think this was a deliberate choice. It seems to me they got the true heart of 2B to read the same way across languages, so in each performance she feels like the same person when her guard is down. The differences seem to come down to coping mechanisms she uses and the persona she chooses to project. By having differences in 2B's persona so that they're more directly relatable to each local audience, I think we are more likely to recognize and appreciate the times where the facade slips. For me personally, having that direct sort of empathy made it a lot easier to believe in 2B's internal life. When the moment comes in Route C, that she can finally let the mask go completely, I truly feel her immense relief because I directly understand the front she's been maintaining. With a more directly translated 2B, I think I might have understood that she was relieved, but only personally felt the sadness of the scene. All-in-all, I think we end up with a pretty elegant solution in this case; the core of 2B's character, and the way we're meant to feel about her and her story remains largely the same. She's still an incredibly driven woman who cares deeply for people around her, whose mission is nearly impossible to cope with. To survive the internal pain of her situation, she must keep everyone at arm's length, and remain apathetic to external factors. Then, for one brief moment, she could just be a woman who holds some kind of affection for 9S. Our empathy and appreciation for that bittersweet moment might be facilitated by couching it in the kinds of coping behaviors we ourselves would employ.
I just finish the game, watch all your drakenier videos again, and today you come back to Automata. I wanna say this is a coincidence, but I'm just glad you felt ready to return to Nier: Automata. Keep up the incredible work.
PolarPhantom True, tho the similarities between Automata and NGE are more prominent and stronger than the original Drakengard. They have the same main character archetypes (the stoic, the bitch and the shy introvert), very similar story beats (‘You and I are more alike than you think’ trope is in full speed here) and even the exact premise of a post-apocalyptic world being ravaged by aliens. Of course, they have their differences and I’m not saying Taro was stealing Anno’s notes or anything. All I’m saying is Taro made a better Evangelion than Anno’s own Rebuilds. Also, since he knew of Madoka Magica when developing Drakengard 3, I wonder if Taro knows of other deconstructive series like Hunter x Hunter.
Really enjoyed the video. Always love learning how localization ends up changing things in subtle and not so subtle ways especially since I only speak English and only have a cursory understanding of some basic Japanese. Like translation is an art not a science and the translator will always leave their mark on the work. Just a small critique but I found your comment about not criticizing either of the voice actors or the localization team a little odd. Pointing out differences made is a kind of criticism and criticism made in good faith (which I think this video is made in) isn't a bad thing. imho half the point of the thing is the discussion that surrounds it. Sorry if this comment came off as rude that was not my intention. I'm a longtime viewer and I'm really grateful for your work especially for your videos on the Drakennier franchise and your ventures videos always give me a good laugh
Never watched you before but I loved this and would totally love a 2 hour speech class! As someone who is trying to learn Japanese for video games and anime, this was a really fun and enlightening video! Will definitely be watching you in the future!
Language influences culture, culture influences language, language influences art, art influences culture, culture influences art, art influences language. To top it off, all of this is exponential. There are as many differences in the world as there are factors to influence them.
I have been a long time fan, it's good to see more Nier content, and touching on the difference in language content and localization. I'd love to see a 2H video really pointing out the differences in the Japanese and English versions of the game!
Another great video. I actually played this through in English and in Japanese specifically for the inherent changes. Nice to see specific examples rationally explained. I think in localizing theres more than just changing the dialogue. In doing so the VA's then have to make that dialogue further localized with intonation. There is so much interpretation being done by interpreters culturally and linguistically. It's even possible that we interpret the japanese 2B differently than Japanese people do and that our interpretations are internally consistent with their own.
@@ezepoliyu I've tried modding it, but the fix didn't work. The cutscenes still stutter and the framerate never runs at a solid 60fps, even though it should on my PC.
![ValkyrieAurora [INACTIVE]](http://yt3.ggpht.com/BA1HBVl1p1PbD3qHzbOCQu5EoSY08_gxG4ADyIbihuIxzZ4LcHb-YvWHdCl7z4UZ5AmPFZFUTLg=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
Swedish woman repeatedly says “banana” to demonstrate philosophical differences between two cultures that developed completely isolated from one another
Should've been "mackerel"
I like that a lot 😭
more than philosophical, i'd say technical..
For me the japanese way demonstrated here is the correct way.
Wait hold on she is Swedish
ValkyrieAurora repeatedly says "banana" with different levels of emphasis (10 hours) .mp4
We need a banana tutorial. Origins of term and berry itself, usages, benefits, dangers, etc. With a lot of bananas in it.
banana
bäñäñä
ばなな
バナナ
b a n a n a
ｂａｎａｎａ
I'm sorry, Despicable Me ruined me on that word. Now, anytime I see anything even remotely yellow I go fetal and start crying.
@@socks6881 Банан
@@socks6881 Ends up with Banena valey girl style XD
Rather than lost in translation it's more like *"Lost in Localization"*
Upvote for miss blue
Alliteration, I like it.
Sad thing really, how most media is now localized instead of just translated.
Growing up reading translations, newer subtilities always throw me off because they don't match with the Japanese audio
Makes me wonder how much change in character tonality the original Nier got in translation.
Considering they actually changed the character, sort of..
Well that's why I dislike English dub so much as it's changed to fit feminist propaganda. I've seen this too many times to even call it hyperbolic or reaching. Not mention feminists themselves talked about how Nier Automata was a " Perfect feminist game " because of the amount of female characters in it. 2B and the female characters in the game are great not because they are women it's because they act like you or me and don't act like these communist who put their stamp on anything that has a group of women in it. I'd also like to say that for English dubs they tend to not have any like and or passion that the Japanese actors and actress have for their work. This's why I love Japanese culture and almost everything about it. They don't have to subscribe to a Feminism which's just another mask for communism and always have been under the guise of equality and female empowerment. They can show both a male and female, heck even children going through awful crap and do it well that people will have certain thoughts and feelings about, but they do it in such a way that it's relatable to the people watching it. Feminists and SJWs will see a 2D girl getting harassed or even raped then have a fit about how women have always been oppressed and anime is proof of that, yet they don't realize that's what they're doing to everybody else. Lastly you come away with learning something either about yourself or others. The reason feminists and SJWs try to stop people from doing that, is manly it makes people think and wake up to the world around, but it also makes them question the feminists themselves and they can't have people doing that now can they. " I mean how could people disagree with women voting and going to college? are you some kind of sexist who hates women and every race on this planet? " All an all Nier Automata is a masterpiece that I and I'm sure millions of others are glad wasn't infested with politics and man-hating nonsense.
“Even if they change it in the English localisation, I wouldn’t know.” - Yoko Taro.
I get what you're going for by using this quote but be careful where you use this. Heaps of localisation teams have been caught changing huge amounts of games/movies/tv shows because they personally didn't like the original in some way. A Localiser's job is to make sure that the content is understandable to an audience that doesn't speak the language. A Localiser's job is NOT to rewrite the original work.
I wouldn't mind a 2 hour lesson on language lol
same
Literally was thinking the same when she said that lol
Also same XD
It would probably be wasted on me.
The Nier Automata voice actors did a talk at Nekocon two years ago where they explained why the characters (including 2B) were so different. Basically, it comes down to not having the full script in advance of recording and the voice direction.
They have to estimate the personality/feel of a character based on the lines they are given to read and the directions of the VO director. And they try their best, but sometimes they miss the intent of a line if it isn't apparent in the script.
I think it goes to show how English voice talents on dubbing roles often lack the level of direction the original cast had, and of the inputs from the directors themselves. It shows most especially in smaller, less big-budget titles like the one on topic.
You were there too lol? I remember her saying something along those lines.
That proves wrong people who defend bad localization as deliberate and necessary for "western audiences to understand the plot or the emotions". Not only is this argument patronizing and insulting to Western audiences, but it is flat-out wrong. Localization that changes characters' intent, personality or emotion often comes from a lack of direction and understanding of the actual emotion that's supposed to be portrayed. Thanks for your comment.
From the video itself, the “I’m good” line is a clear example. You could say those two simple words in a _Variety_ of ways, from contentment, stubbornness, facade, hesitancy, dismissiveness, and everything in btwn.
In Japanese, the equivalent to “I’m good” is spoken, but the tone is more hesitant. In English, it’s spoken dismissively.
@@酎ハイ飲んだらいい感じ Yeah that assumption about western audiences almost sounds kinda racist.
Shit it's really been 2 years since it came out? Damn time is slowly slipping through my finger's
Slowly? You wish!
@@23Scadu I was trying to be optimistic for a change haha
trapped in a never ending cycle of repeat plays
And I only bought the game last month and recently got ending C and need to get ending D.
your finger's what?
10/10 Would watch for a banana tutorial again
"I don't want this video being a two hour long language class"
I'd pay for Sophie Language Classes.
I'm an assistant language teacher in Japan, and my Elementary School students always laugh when I have to teach them stress patterns on loan words. Banana and Tomato are the two big ones that always get a giggle.
I love hearing Sophie explaining stuff.
I love hearing Sophie too.
Doesn't every one love hearing Sophie. She has the most soothing voice
i think we want that 2 hour language class she mentioned in the video XD
ASMR
makes me wet
It is fascinating how the differences in both the English and Japanese languages can subtly change how a character is percieved, be it a game or anime. I wonder.....how would 2B be perceived in other languages?
In spanish it's a little easier to keep the same feeling but almost always we get the english translated version and we adapt from there, that it changing though .
I mean, the original Nier had a huge change
@@christopher961 In what way?
@@gatro91 The protagonist was completely changed
If you customized with both culture, you can feel it, feel the differences, strangeness
Another video about Nier Automata made by Sophie?? Sign me TF up!
it's really weird to hear Sophie being serious after listening to her being a squeaky hamster on ventures
I was waiting for the break in character as well. We could probably all picture that there are at least an hour of outtakes edited out.
Yeah ! No cursing !
Clicked faster than Nier's record breaking time of dooming humanity
JoJo's Dank Adventures so five years?
I've been wanting a discussion of this localization for so long. 9S is really cold to the lost child in that side-quest in English, but he speaks calmly and kindly to him in Japanese. I knew there was a lot more, so thank you.
I think the ammount of people that dislike autómata characters fue to being "enotionless" comes from most people that played un english for that reason, they took out 2b, 9S and A2 the nuances of their softer side In favour of a sarcastic cold Tone...
Kira Buckland talked about not knowing exactly what the game is about when doing the voice acting due to non disclosure, maybe she wasn't given enough context for some one liner at earlier point of the game, not until she could grasp what the character is all about later on? She mentioned needing to go change some earlier recording as the tone was not quite what she think should be after finishing the later emotional and heavy part
she was also on some streams with 9S' Eng VA as he played through the game. You could hear her criticizing her own performance or complimenting it depending on certain parts. it was actually cute, and also an interesting look into the mind of a VA when brought onto a project they know little about but _want_ to do their best with.
@@Xenmaru00 Yea I kind of consumed most things related to Nier Automata, the concert reading with the corresponding VA reading parts are wonderful as well
The "ma'am" part is a good example of how languages are difficult to adapt, and how this work can vary a lot between different languages.
In english is obviously difficult to adapt something like the formalism of "-san" but as soon as you said it i realized that in italian it could be easly traduced in "she", and that's because we tend to use the 3rd person to talk with someone we have little or no confidence at all, or someone who is on an higher level in a hierarchy (like a teacher, a professor, a superior, someone important or simply an elder that is neither familiar or friend). And in this case 2B could have replied "just give me the ", and that would have been perfect.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I find all of this very fascinating.
Something i've been thinking for years is that 9S is also lost in translation - in English he comes across as a bit of a simp for 2B and a bit nervous whereas in Japanese he's very cool, calm in collected in the way he speaks. Gotta love Hanae Natsuki.
Have been watching all of your NieR/Drakengard related videos for the past few days, and they are more than helpful to understand so much about these universes ! Thanks so much for making those, it's great to have content creators still making stuff around those games
Whoa! Just noticed 2B's japanese VA is the same as Mikasa's from AoT .0.
Its so fitting too. i only noticed today.
Who also Voiced Violet from Violet Evergarden.
One of the reasons 2B is best girl (in Nier)
Yui Ishikawa specializes in the pure but deadly type of female characters.
@@r_k4146 true
@@justsomeguywithlasereyes9920 2B ain't even close to be the best Nier girl
We miss you, Aurora. Hope you are living your fullest life. Thank you for restoring access to these delightful works for us to continue to enjoy in times good and bad.
Listening to someone speak about something they love so passionately is the best 😊
Honestly 9S’ personality was more lost in translation than 2B, although I did find the English 9S super impressive, especially in the more emotional scenes. One clear example being the end of robo dojo side quest, where 9S and 2B tries to mask their guilt with nonchalance. The level of complicated emotion did not translate well into English at all, which isn’t really anyone’s fault, even the Japanese version requires you to understand the context and character developments for the guilt behind their indifferent voices to come through. English 9S is definitely more of a good boy, while Japanese 9S sounds mischievous, and maybe even a little bit mean at times..
Just something that erked me a little as I played/watched playthroughs in both languages. Also that ending D final scene in Japanese made me really uncomfortable because how real and raw the near death sounds were..:’(
I see a nier video I instantly click
Will you make a "lost in translation" video for 9S too? I love his english voice but I think his character got quite changed too and I'd love to hear your thoughts on 9S' changes as well!
Ok for real though that language part was actually really helpful :D
The music at the end was calming and soothing. Nice Automata is personally on of the greatest games I’ve ever played. Great video.
10:37 - start of banana tutorial
just leaving it here when my future self returns to this video
New Automata video made by Sophie?! You have no idea how fast I clicked the notification!
Is a copletely diffirent experience playing the game in Japanese than in English. And that it shows so much about how the "japanese culture" is embeded in some dialogues in the game.
Still the game is a masterpiece. I loved playing it in both languages.
After finishing it in English, I'd always meant to go back and replay it with Japanese audio, but never got around to it...
@@solarshado I wanted to play again in Japanese but I didn't want the characters to go through the cycle once more. It had such a perfect ending.
As a translator working in this industry, I can confirm that this video is spot-on and an amazing analysis of both the language and cultural/cognitive aspects of translation. You rarely get this level of nuance even from bilinguals or professional translators talking about this topic.
My company (the orange one) and I usually stick to keeping honorifics and all those other cultural artifacts, but what Square's done with 2B and 9S is perfectly valid as well. I'm a slightly different person when I'm speaking in Japanese as opposed to when I'm speaking in English, even with the same person. It's just how it is.
Human (and android) identity is a fickle thing, and there's nothing wrong with the conscious decision to convey that realism at the expense of accuracy in other respects.
At the end of the day, translation isn't just about choosing the right answer, but also about choosing how to be wrong and sticking with it.
My brother has a shirt that reminds me of how the way we say things in English changes the meaning.
"Let's eat, Grandma.
Let's eat Grandma.
Commas save lives."
Granted, that's more of a shirt about grammar, but the way you stress the words changes the meaning. Kind of like the banana thing you mentioned
You're absolutely correct. My Psychology teacher once made a point by writing on the whiteboard two of the same sentences with two different emojis at the end of them to show how even body language such as facial expressions can change the meaning context of a sentence. What he wrote looked like this:
A. Can you meet me in my office? : )
B. Can you meet me in my office? ; )
He went on to say that one is school appropriate while the other would most likely get him fired. xD
Your video definitely should be a 2 hour language class. I learnt something today because of you, thank you very much !
It's always tricky to really nail down the differences between japanese language and english because a lot of what we say is based on culture, not language itself. Theres things that need to be expressed in japanese culture that just don't need to be in a western culture and vise versa. You end up with cases where a direct translation IS possible but would seem silly.
I am glad my brother and I weren't the only ones seeing this, its great to see others agree as well. also, I hope you know your are best girl to a lot of people and your videos are very refreshing on topics rarely spoken.
This was great!
Also, you could totally do a 2H language class, i'd listen to it for sure!
Erdna SpeedSoldier or she could do a 2B language class
Thanks for hour job. Every time i watch one of your videos about nier in a second all my memories wake up reminding me how this game hurted me so bad. I never came back in these two years playing nier again. The contrast between respect and some kind of fear is still here and i'm sure i will have to wait many years hoping to play another title so powerful. What a fanboy am i hahahahhaha.
i met yui ishikawa twice now and she is absolutly adorable xD
This randomly popped up on my feed & I'm glad it did. Really thoughtful video! Expanded my thinking about a game I love.
Thanks for the banana lesson! Now I can finally speak fluent Sanskrit!
Yay!! Another Nier Automata video from ValkyrieAurora!! I just finished this game 2 weeks ago and have seriously binged all of your content on it haha
Even with this choice in translation, she is still my favorite fictional character ever. I wouldn't change the story or dialogue as I love the pacing of the connection between 9S and 2B.
I've been a fan of your work for a very long time now, and safe to say, you've still got that magic touch in your videos. Really enjoyed this!
When Sophie uploads a new video about Nier: Automata
The Return of The ❌King❌ QUEEN
THANK GOD YOU ARE STILL MAKING NIER/DG VIDEOS!!! OMG YES FINALLY
I actually adore 2B's delivery of the "I'm good" line, because it almost sounds like she's bitten into a bad apple. There's some choked off emotion in it, it's not just her usual clipped responses to 9S. But the part about san rather than ma'am make so much more sense holy cow. In English she seem mad that he's calling her old.
This video ended up reminding me of the difference between Japanese Zero and English Zero from Drakengard 3. I LOVE both of them but English Zero is more angry and harsh while Japanese Zero is more dismissive in her harshness, not as wrathful
Love that you’re back to these type of videos!
There's a thing in japanese culture about never dismissing a yes/no question outright. When you would answer "no i'm good (thank you)" anywhere else in the world, a japanese person will say "maybe another time" "just a little". Just read another comment that the english VAs said they acted without the japanese VO, but without that information you could think the way 2B dismisses 9S was localized appropriately.
I still need to play this game, oof
Missing out
Get it man, it's really good.
^
It’s not for everyone. As much as it’s been praised I found the game incredibly boring
ogletret Have you beaten it yet?
Language classes is what I’m here for, and you do a great job with both theory and pronouncing words. Keep it up
On the subject of the West not having many kuudere-type characters, the only example I can think of that fits the trope as well as 2B is Trinity from The Matrix. She's quiet, focused, serious, generally indifferent to anything outside her mission, but her emotional side comes through in strenuous moments.
Well the matrix is heavily inspired by anime, so it makes a lot of sense
AHHHHH YOU UPLOADED ON MY BDAY BLESS YOU SOPHIE DEAR
Happy Birthdayyy!! 😊🎉
So far I'm 6 minutes in and as I understand it the English performance comes across as a more dismissive and sarcastic 2B while Japanese is generally softer and hesitant. I think both have their merits. 2B doesn't like showing her emotions so acting defensive and sarcastic in some cases fits but it still shows she's feeling something. She's upset and sarcastic to hide that she doesn't want to feel. While also just having a softer hesitation and tone in the Japanese shows a want to feel but a hesitation to do so because of her orders. Both I think gets her character arc and general personality across pretty alright. Both show that she does indeed have emotion and a hesitation to show it but do it differently.
Of course I haven't finished yet and this is just my rambling. This is a great analysis so far Valkyrie. Love your stuff.
Feel the same way, that's how I interpreted 2B's voice acting.
The problems with 2b softer lines In english it's that came across as Someone that it's just tired like doing chores, she Is indeed tired of fighting that never ending cycle but In english doesn't reflect the Weight she has on her shoulders by restraining her emotions, it's just sounds More like Someone who doesn't care sometimes...
Damn, the bgm brings me back. Can't believe its been two years now. Great video
I actually asked Kira about this today(crunchyroll expo). While she neither confirmed or denied this specific case, she did say that this sort of things certainly happens and when it does, it is usually decided by the localization team prior to even hiring the voice actors. Which, in turn, means that she might not actually know if it did happen, if they didn't tell her but just instructed her to do it the way she did.
Consequently, it's not as much Yui Ishikawa vs Kira Buckland, but (presumably) Yoko/Akihiko versus... whoever the shot caller of the localization team is. She says that if you don't like the DIRECTION a character is dubbed, that's usually not the voice actor's fault/choice (ofc, quality of the dub is a different issue)
Honestly I'd like to say I really love this video.
Long rant below. TLDR: I like subs over dubs.
I found that literal text translations in media from one language to another are often quite on point. When it comes to localization of more complex things like jokes or cultural references, usually the localization team does a really good job too. Don't get me wrong, it's a really hard job and I always really appreciate them for their hard work.
As you have more elegantly explained in this video, usually it's the "character" of a character that I notice gets lost in translation, especially when it comes to voice acting in my opinion. I often get the feeling that the emotional tone usually gets based off of the script instead of basing it off of the script AND tone of the original. I'm never sure if it's intentionally that way or not though. It's like first comes the literal translation of the script to convey what was spoken, then comes the emotional interpretation of the translated script (which actually is a lot of pressure on the voice actors). Unfortunately, a 1 to 1 interpretation would usually need a good understanding of how both languages feel and it's not really timely learning a whole new language. When speaking it's a combination of both words and emotion. On top of that, the choice of vocabulary can both influence and be influenced by the interpreted emotion. I.e, the interpreted emotion can actually bring a change to what's being said, which can end up going down a deep rabbit hole further diverging the interpreted and original character.
Just going off of the first example given (3:23), the Japanese version just about literally translates as (although there may be better translations)
"(It's) going to reuse dead androids to attack us!?" Stated more as an exclamation than a question and, as mentioned, aprehensively.
Again as mentioned, in English it's more sassy and dismissive. Honestly I that it could have been said aprehensively in English quite simply, but I feel that the interpretation of the translated script could have been a result of lack of emotional context/reference, wether or not this was intentional. A different interpretation of the !? could have led to the word "seriously" getting inserted due to the perceived weight of the matter, then leading to the sassy emotion emerging as a result.
These differences would be small by themselves, but cumulatively they shape how we see a character.
I'm not sure of others but I tend to "snowball" my interpretations of a character, say in a book, until rarely something happens which might cause me to change my thoughts about them. I'm not talking "character development", more so "oh so they may have actually said it this way" kind of thing. Honestly if just given a script, there could be multiple ways of interpreting a character's "character" and I really enjoy seeing (or hearing) another person's interpretation. It's like breathing a new life into them, which sometimes even warrants new playthroughs in my opinion.
Again, I do enjoy finding these differences though when it comes to localized media like this. It's really interesting how different a story or character can be even though literally the script is exactly the same. In general, I happen to find myself gravitating towards original content over localized content. Stuff originally in English I prefer it in its original form, and likewise for others, like Japanese. SUBS OVER DUBS
Anyways, I've ranted enough and I'll stop here.
Japanese and English 2B literally have different personalities because of this lol
Great video, as someone who works with translation I really enjoyed it. Thank you for taking the time to shed some light on this topic, rarely do people think about the challenges that stem from translation and some of the problems that might arise from it.
I would honestly listen to Sophie's two hour long language class.
This isn’t the kind of video I though it would’ve been lol but I learned something so that was cool, I was searching up nier automata stuff because I 100% it recently and found your channel and your videos are nice 👌 subbed
There's actually a recorded livestream let's play series of Nier Automata with the English voice actors of 2B and 9S playing through Nier Automata.
If i recall correctly, I think there was one point where the voice actors mentioned that they actually didn't 100% knew the details of the story/game before doing the voices.
I think one of them even said how they probably woulda redone some of the lines in the playthrough.
I think this was probably the biggest reasons there were slight descrepancies in character sometimes while being 100% on point in others.
It also shows due to the fact that most of the descrepancies were in the small talking done between the characters rather than the main story voice lines.
Imo, 2B's dere side shows more through the small talk and side quests rather than what she does in the main story while the main story emphasizes 2B's loyalty and steadfastness.
It'd make sense for someone to misunderstand the small talk lines and portray them as sharp and curt if they were only given the literal translation to voice and the main story without any context for the side quests/small talk or where it even took place in the story.
This is really informative and well researched. I also really like how fair and respectful your perspective was to everyone involved in the creation and localization of the game.
I think the major reason for the difference for 2B's tone during less emotional moments is due the localization director's view of the character. 2B has a commanding pose in promotional art, and her basic walk cycle exudes confidence, to say nothing of her obvious combat prowess. To Westerners, it may not make sense for 2B to be showing the slight vulnerabilities in her speech that she seems to in Japanese, while at the same time her body language implies she's maintaining the composure of an experienced, professional killer.
That lack of Nuance it's what bothers me In english localization, they can't help but put the cardboard "badass" showoff upfront for any capable and expert character and that kilos the nuances between them, not everyone covers her emotions in a sarcastic and cold way, that suits More A2 than 2b, but they see her as "weak" if they just drop a Little the "badass" persona...the same with kaine, it's really superficial that s Lot of people of the west loves her More for being a foulmouthed abrassive b*ch than the nuances of her personality due to a life of trauma and pain
i just wanna take a moment to honestly thank you for making this, to thank you for still paying attention to nier automata and putting the effort and work to make this video for the enjoyment of your viewers, thank you
11:17 let's be honest, who wouldn't want a 2 hour language class like that
Any reason to listen to Fortress of Lies again is valid for me to watch another of your Nier videos :)
I’ve never actually realized what those differences were between the Japanese and English speaking patterns, that was very intriguing to me.
This is such a wonderful video! Thank you so much for your analysis of the differences in localization- if this came out while I was still in college I’d have shown it to my professor for the translation course I took!
The talk about differing character archetypes is actually an interesting explanation. I still don't agree with dubs constantly changing characters (particularly 'strong female characters') into snarky assholes, but that point at least makes sense for it. Poor Kaine and Zero reeeeeeally got that treatment I felt, so 2B is definitely not even a horrible offender, but something about her English VA's tone overall makes me feel they intended her to be more dry and sarcastic rather than sometimes awkwardly softspoken because of her focus on getting the job done, and it was offputting for me.
Overall a really great video! You brought up a lot of points I hadn't thought about in how English and Japanese differ, which was refreshing. My native tongue is English, so you'd think it would be more obvious, but... I guess that's a testament to how unconscious these things become.
Thanks, i hate that tendency of making all a badass bitch without nuances, it feels superficial and forced, just like the cardboard cool Gary stu guy...ohh she's bot like other girls, she can bebcute butnits foul mouthed and sarcastic, wow queen* when in Kaine at least it's ab obvious facade and upfront wall and bot her real personality when she's actually craves and thrives for a piece of love and caring In her life
I came to this channel because of Nier: Automata and stayed because, well, this channel is awesome. To finally come full circle makes me feel so happy and kinda proud of how much Sophie has grown. Thanks for the consistently magnificent content.
The English 2B gives a impression of no emotion/cool in character.
While the JP 2B shows impression of suppressed emotion, which is more in line with "emotion is prohibited" theme for 2B
This is the main reason why dubs are always bad. It happens every single time. This is drastic personality change.
I’m always so happy to see a new Automata video in 2019 thank you for keeping the discussion abt this game alive!
I really just watch your videos to hear you talk, if we're being honest.
I usually watch em twice, because I can't focus on what's being said.
...I can't focus on the second attempt too but it's a good excuse to hear Sophie twice.
She has an amazing giggle too.
You really went in depth with the speech stuff, but I always love when you show so much passion for Automata. Good work Val. ^_^
it's also interesting that Yui Ishikawa also voices this character archeotype (Mikasa from Attack on Titan and the titular Violet Evergarden), but regardless she does a splendid job at portraying the character emotions like that
Really fascinating! I’m always open to more Nier discussions.
Something I really enjoyed in the English version that I'd be interested in whether it was present (or at least as noticeable) in the original is that initially 2b is presented in a very stereotypical AI/robot fashion. One of her first lines is the repeated "Emotions are prohibited" but as the game goes on we learn that rather than game being about the trope of the cold calculating robots only caring about hard logic, this is simply 2b's character. Many of the other androids, even the machines, are openly emotional or caring, but 2b is different. It makes us suddenly more interested in her.
It was a really interesting play on my expectations as to the character when she was first introduced, and fit well with the way Taro often reframes events and characters, but now I'm wondering if my reading is more down to the interpretation during localisation than original intent.
I love hearing your deep dive mumblings
I'm not trying to get into the dubs vs subs debate, I am of the position that both are valid options, and you should not feel ashamed of your preference to experience a japanese work in its dubbed form. However, I do think it's important to have in mind that a proper study and understanding of a work recquires an awareness, understanding, and value of the cultural and interpretative context behind it. Inherent qualities that define it beyond words.
Localization is a very difficult job, it goes way beyond understanding the words and translating them to fit the narrative context. In a work as deep as NieR Automata, the task just becomes immeasurably harder.
Persona 4 is the one work that for me is the perfect example of effective localization, it's a heavily japanese game, and the localization never shies away from that fact, the game keeps its soul, its cultural value. Great video!
realy love your vids ive spent like a whole day watching them. u really helped me explain to my friends why i love this game so much
so the japanese version shows some more vunerabilities, and a stronger sense of earnestness, where as the american version is more hardened badass.
yes the japaneses version might have a bit more nuiance and complexity to her character, but honestly both characterisations are pretty fantastic tbh. even the american version 2b comes across as a very strong and relatable character, and having only played in english i still loved 2B. so both did a phenominal job. and like valkyrie said, on the emotional high points both absolutely nailed it.
I found that the Japanese script was more of a typical "stoic" character myself... and I thought that the western localization actually worked a lot better with a bit more complexity but that's just me... both are very amazing characters
@@thepurehealer1279 I thought the English localization made 2B more of a typical "feminist" character kinda like Captain Marvel, which was a big turn off for me.
@@Александр-р9ч8в even as a pretty right leaning guy... I didn't see it, she isn't really advocating something or considering herself above she is just kinda... mean, rude, and standoffish, which isn't necessarily a bad negative trait for a character especially since she does warm up a lot to 9s and other surrounding characters
love your automata videos soooo muchhh ;-; thank you!
There's another scene that changed the tone of 2B in terms of context. When 2B and 9S were rescuing the little sister machine in the desert, she asked several questions to 9S. When he was asked about making children, 9S asked 2B for help. 2B was a bit hesitant in Japanese and said she can't help even if 9S asked for her help in his desperate voice. Where in English version, 2B just sounded as if she heard something ridiculous and worthless, that she almost dismissed 9S's help. I don't know if 2B reacted in that way in Japanese version because making children was a sensitive issue to tell children even to machines or it was because 9S, the fond of her life, asked in a desperate tone but she didn't want to do anything with her enemy. Anyway, it was interesting for me to see the difference between Japanese and English versions.
She just didn't feel comfortable
Loved the video. I also feel that another aspect is Japanese doesn't mind too much about ambiguity and letting implication do a lot of the work in the language itself. Whereas languages such as English and such tend to want more clarity and directness which seem to also come across in the culture as well.
tl;dr : 2B's outward persona is different, but we see that internally she's pretty well the same. I suspect this was intentional to make it easier for each audience to more directly empathize when her true self is revealed
The more personal response; spoilers below:
I think I could get why it was localized and handled this way, and I think this was a deliberate choice. It seems to me they got the true heart of 2B to read the same way across languages, so in each performance she feels like the same person when her guard is down. The differences seem to come down to coping mechanisms she uses and the persona she chooses to project. By having differences in 2B's persona so that they're more directly relatable to each local audience, I think we are more likely to recognize and appreciate the times where the facade slips. For me personally, having that direct sort of empathy made it a lot easier to believe in 2B's internal life. When the moment comes in Route C, that she can finally let the mask go completely, I truly feel her immense relief because I directly understand the front she's been maintaining. With a more directly translated 2B, I think I might have understood that she was relieved, but only personally felt the sadness of the scene.
All-in-all, I think we end up with a pretty elegant solution in this case; the core of 2B's character, and the way we're meant to feel about her and her story remains largely the same. She's still an incredibly driven woman who cares deeply for people around her, whose mission is nearly impossible to cope with. To survive the internal pain of her situation, she must keep everyone at arm's length, and remain apathetic to external factors. Then, for one brief moment, she could just be a woman who holds some kind of affection for 9S. Our empathy and appreciation for that bittersweet moment might be facilitated by couching it in the kinds of coping behaviors we ourselves would employ.
I just finish the game, watch all your drakenier videos again, and today you come back to Automata. I wanna say this is a coincidence, but I'm just glad you felt ready to return to Nier: Automata. Keep up the incredible work.
After seeing Rei, I just realised how Automata is really similar to Evangelion. Except Kaworu is now TWO white hair, red eyed pretty boys.
NGE was also an influence on the first Drakengard.
If you know Drakengard you can probably guess what was inspired by NGE.
PolarPhantom True, tho the similarities between Automata and NGE are more prominent and stronger than the original Drakengard. They have the same main character archetypes (the stoic, the bitch and the shy introvert), very similar story beats (‘You and I are more alike than you think’ trope is in full speed here) and even the exact premise of a post-apocalyptic world being ravaged by aliens. Of course, they have their differences and I’m not saying Taro was stealing Anno’s notes or anything. All I’m saying is Taro made a better Evangelion than Anno’s own Rebuilds.
Also, since he knew of Madoka Magica when developing Drakengard 3, I wonder if Taro knows of other deconstructive series like Hunter x Hunter.
Really enjoyed the video. Always love learning how localization ends up changing things in subtle and not so subtle ways especially since I only speak English and only have a cursory understanding of some basic Japanese. Like translation is an art not a science and the translator will always leave their mark on the work. Just a small critique but I found your comment about not criticizing either of the voice actors or the localization team a little odd. Pointing out differences made is a kind of criticism and criticism made in good faith (which I think this video is made in) isn't a bad thing. imho half the point of the thing is the discussion that surrounds it. Sorry if this comment came off as rude that was not my intention. I'm a longtime viewer and I'm really grateful for your work especially for your videos on the Drakennier franchise and your ventures videos always give me a good laugh
11:10 No, please continue with this banana quandary.
Dude ur voice just soothes my soul.
It honestly doesn't matter what you are talking about I just enjoy listening to you explaining stuff.
I understand all of this, but there is one important question that is left unanswered.
When are we gonna see a Sophie 2B cosplay?
Never watched you before but I loved this and would totally love a 2 hour speech class! As someone who is trying to learn Japanese for video games and anime, this was a really fun and enlightening video! Will definitely be watching you in the future!
Language influences culture, culture influences language, language influences art, art influences culture, culture influences art, art influences language.
To top it off, all of this is exponential. There are as many differences in the world as there are factors to influence them.
I have been a long time fan, it's good to see more Nier content, and touching on the difference in language content and localization. I'd love to see a 2H video really pointing out the differences in the Japanese and English versions of the game!
Another great video.
I actually played this through in English and in Japanese specifically for the inherent changes.
Nice to see specific examples rationally explained.
I think in localizing theres more than just changing the dialogue. In doing so the VA's then have to make that dialogue further localized with intonation. There is so much interpretation being done by interpreters culturally and linguistically.
It's even possible that we interpret the japanese 2B differently than Japanese people do and that our interpretations are internally consistent with their own.
interpretation
clearly I posted this comment 2 minutes early. lol
you basically said the same thing so that makes us right. lol
I could never got enough of yours Nier's content
Nier: Automata + Valkyrie theme = immediate like.
This was an amazing video. I'd love to see more videos in this vein. Dissecting language, characters, or specific elements of media.
You know what else was lost in translation? The PC version. Can they for the love of god patch that thing already?
The mod community fixed pretty much everything, although it would be nice if platinum made something official
@@ezepoliyu I've tried modding it, but the fix didn't work. The cutscenes still stutter and the framerate never runs at a solid 60fps, even though it should on my PC.
@@AshXXMayftw specs?? If you want I can help you
@UCulepDmrIdBwTUn1SFs2VqQ I recommend putting everything to max apart from antialiasing, which should be off
Subsequently, the FAR mod, and monitor everything with me I afterburner