Nier: Automata - 2B - Lost in translation
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- CC is available if you can’t decipher my mumbling.
The time has finally come, let's talk about 2B's character being lost in translation. Or if she ever really was lost in translation at all? Let's speculate!
music:
▶️ Nier: Automata - Fortress of Lies
▶️ Nier: Automata - City Ruins
![[Nier: Automata] The Concept of Humanity and the Descent of 9S](/img/n.gif)
ValkyrieAurora repeatedly says "banana" with different levels of emphasis (10 hours) .mp4
We need a banana tutorial. Origins of term and berry itself, usages, benefits, dangers, etc. With a lot of bananas in it.
banana
bäñäñä
ばなな
バナナ
b a n a n a
ｂａｎａｎａ
I'm sorry, Despicable Me ruined me on that word. Now, anytime I see anything even remotely yellow I go fetal and start crying.
@@socks6881 Банан
@@socks6881 Ends up with Banena valey girl style XD
Swedish woman repeatedly says “banana” to demonstrate philosophical differences between two cultures that developed completely isolated from one another
Should've been "mackerel"
I like that a lot 😭
more than philosophical, i'd say technical..
For me the japanese way demonstrated here is the correct way.
Wait hold on she is Swedish
Rather than lost in translation it's more like *"Lost in Localization"*
Upvote for miss blue
Alliteration, I like it.
Sad thing really, how most media is now localized instead of just translated.
Growing up reading translations, newer subtilities always throw me off because they don't match with the Japanese audio
Makes me wonder how much change in character tonality the original Nier got in translation.
Considering they actually changed the character, sort of..
Well that's why I dislike English dub so much as it's changed to fit feminist propaganda. I've seen this too many times to even call it hyperbolic or reaching. Not mention feminists themselves talked about how Nier Automata was a " Perfect feminist game " because of the amount of female characters in it. 2B and the female characters in the game are great not because they are women it's because they act like you or me and don't act like these communist who put their stamp on anything that has a group of women in it. I'd also like to say that for English dubs they tend to not have any like and or passion that the Japanese actors and actress have for their work. This's why I love Japanese culture and almost everything about it. They don't have to subscribe to a Feminism which's just another mask for communism and always have been under the guise of equality and female empowerment. They can show both a male and female, heck even children going through awful crap and do it well that people will have certain thoughts and feelings about, but they do it in such a way that it's relatable to the people watching it. Feminists and SJWs will see a 2D girl getting harassed or even raped then have a fit about how women have always been oppressed and anime is proof of that, yet they don't realize that's what they're doing to everybody else. Lastly you come away with learning something either about yourself or others. The reason feminists and SJWs try to stop people from doing that, is manly it makes people think and wake up to the world around, but it also makes them question the feminists themselves and they can't have people doing that now can they. " I mean how could people disagree with women voting and going to college? are you some kind of sexist who hates women and every race on this planet? " All an all Nier Automata is a masterpiece that I and I'm sure millions of others are glad wasn't infested with politics and man-hating nonsense.
The Nier Automata voice actors did a talk at Nekocon two years ago where they explained why the characters (including 2B) were so different. Basically, it comes down to not having the full script in advance of recording and the voice direction.
They have to estimate the personality/feel of a character based on the lines they are given to read and the directions of the VO director. And they try their best, but sometimes they miss the intent of a line if it isn't apparent in the script.
I think it goes to show how English voice talents on dubbing roles often lack the level of direction the original cast had, and of the inputs from the directors themselves. It shows most especially in smaller, less big-budget titles like the one on topic.
You were there too lol? I remember her saying something along those lines.
That proves wrong people who defend bad localization as deliberate and necessary for "western audiences to understand the plot or the emotions". Not only is this argument patronizing and insulting to Western audiences, but it is flat-out wrong. Localization that changes characters' intent, personality or emotion often comes from a lack of direction and understanding of the actual emotion that's supposed to be portrayed. Thanks for your comment.
From the video itself, the “I’m good” line is a clear example. You could say those two simple words in a _Variety_ of ways, from contentment, stubbornness, facade, hesitancy, dismissiveness, and everything in btwn.
In Japanese, the equivalent to “I’m good” is spoken, but the tone is more hesitant. In English, it’s spoken dismissively.
@@RickGrimes807 Yeah that assumption about western audiences almost sounds kinda racist.
I wouldn't mind a 2 hour lesson on language lol
same
Literally was thinking the same when she said that lol
Also same XD
It would probably be wasted on me.
Shit it's really been 2 years since it came out? Damn time is slowly slipping through my finger's
Slowly? You wish!
@@23Scadu I was trying to be optimistic for a change haha
trapped in a never ending cycle of repeat plays
And I only bought the game last month and recently got ending C and need to get ending D.
your finger's what?
10/10 Would watch for a banana tutorial again
I'm an assistant language teacher in Japan, and my Elementary School students always laugh when I have to teach them stress patterns on loan words. Banana and Tomato are the two big ones that always get a giggle.
Kira Buckland talked about not knowing exactly what the game is about when doing the voice acting due to non disclosure, maybe she wasn't given enough context for some one liner at earlier point of the game, not until she could grasp what the character is all about later on? She mentioned needing to go change some earlier recording as the tone was not quite what she think should be after finishing the later emotional and heavy part
she was also on some streams with 9S' Eng VA as he played through the game. You could hear her criticizing her own performance or complimenting it depending on certain parts. it was actually cute, and also an interesting look into the mind of a VA when brought onto a project they know little about but _want_ to do their best with.
@@Xenmaru00 Yea I kind of consumed most things related to Nier Automata, the concert reading with the corresponding VA reading parts are wonderful as well
“Even if they change it in the English localisation, I wouldn’t know.” - Yoko Taro.
I get what you're going for by using this quote but be careful where you use this. Heaps of localisation teams have been caught changing huge amounts of games/movies/tv shows because they personally didn't like the original in some way. A Localiser's job is to make sure that the content is understandable to an audience that doesn't speak the language. A Localiser's job is NOT to rewrite the original work.
Another video about Nier Automata made by Sophie?? Sign me TF up!
Clicked faster than Nier's record breaking time of dooming humanity
JoJo's Dank Adventures so five years?
Honestly 9S’ personality was more lost in translation than 2B, although I did find the English 9S super impressive, especially in the more emotional scenes. One clear example being the end of robo dojo side quest, where 9S and 2B tries to mask their guilt with nonchalance. The level of complicated emotion did not translate well into English at all, which isn’t really anyone’s fault, even the Japanese version requires you to understand the context and character developments for the guilt behind their indifferent voices to come through. English 9S is definitely more of a good boy, while Japanese 9S sounds mischievous, and maybe even a little bit mean at times..
Just something that erked me a little as I played/watched playthroughs in both languages. Also that ending D final scene in Japanese made me really uncomfortable because how real and raw the near death sounds were..:’(
My brother has a shirt that reminds me of how the way we say things in English changes the meaning.
"Let's eat, Grandma.
Let's eat Grandma.
Commas save lives."
Granted, that's more of a shirt about grammar, but the way you stress the words changes the meaning. Kind of like the banana thing you mentioned
You're absolutely correct. My Psychology teacher once made a point by writing on the whiteboard two of the same sentences with two different emojis at the end of them to show how even body language such as facial expressions can change the meaning context of a sentence. What he wrote looked like this:
A. Can you meet me in my office? : )
B. Can you meet me in my office? ; )
He went on to say that one is school appropriate while the other would most likely get him fired. xD
Whoa! Just noticed 2B's japanese VA is the same as Mikasa's from AoT .0.
Its so fitting too. i only noticed today.
Who also Voiced Violet from Violet Evergarden.
One of the reasons 2B is best girl (in Nier)
Yui Ishikawa specializes in the pure but deadly type of female characters.
@@r_k4146 true
@@justsomeguywithlasereyes9920 2B ain't even close to be the best Nier girl
I actually asked Kira about this today(crunchyroll expo). While she neither confirmed or denied this specific case, she did say that this sort of things certainly happens and when it does, it is usually decided by the localization team prior to even hiring the voice actors. Which, in turn, means that she might not actually know if it did happen, if they didn't tell her but just instructed her to do it the way she did.
Consequently, it's not as much Yui Ishikawa vs Kira Buckland, but (presumably) Yoko/Akihiko versus... whoever the shot caller of the localization team is. She says that if you don't like the DIRECTION a character is dubbed, that's usually not the voice actor's fault/choice (ofc, quality of the dub is a different issue)
10:37 - start of banana tutorial
just leaving it here when my future self returns to this video
I see a nier video I instantly click
I think the major reason for the difference for 2B's tone during less emotional moments is due the localization director's view of the character. 2B has a commanding pose in promotional art, and her basic walk cycle exudes confidence, to say nothing of her obvious combat prowess. To Westerners, it may not make sense for 2B to be showing the slight vulnerabilities in her speech that she seems to in Japanese, while at the same time her body language implies she's maintaining the composure of an experienced, professional killer.
i met yui ishikawa twice now and she is absolutly adorable xD
I actually adore 2B's delivery of the "I'm good" line, because it almost sounds like she's bitten into a bad apple. There's some choked off emotion in it, it's not just her usual clipped responses to 9S. But the part about san rather than ma'am make so much more sense holy cow. In English she seem mad that he's calling her old.
This video ended up reminding me of the difference between Japanese Zero and English Zero from Drakengard 3. I LOVE both of them but English Zero is more angry and harsh while Japanese Zero is more dismissive in her harshness, not as wrathful
Ok for real though that language part was actually really helpful :D
So far I'm 6 minutes in and as I understand it the English performance comes across as a more dismissive and sarcastic 2B while Japanese is generally softer and hesitant. I think both have their merits. 2B doesn't like showing her emotions so acting defensive and sarcastic in some cases fits but it still shows she's feeling something. She's upset and sarcastic to hide that she doesn't want to feel. While also just having a softer hesitation and tone in the Japanese shows a want to feel but a hesitation to do so because of her orders. Both I think gets her character arc and general personality across pretty alright. Both show that she does indeed have emotion and a hesitation to show it but do it differently.
Of course I haven't finished yet and this is just my rambling. This is a great analysis so far Valkyrie. Love your stuff.
Feel the same way, that's how I interpreted 2B's voice acting.
I like the way 2b denies 9s request to call him nines, I see it as she’s so hard on the surface and almost rude to a point because of how much she cares for 9s and each time she has to meet him again it hurts her more and more so she eventually just has to force herself from getting too close each time and accept the reality at some point she has to kill him again and it’s easier to handle emotionally if she doesn’t let herself get to comfortable each time. Both voices are awesome ! But I understand the reasoning for 2b to be so harsh and dismissive without much emotion at first
i love how fast she runs
Something I really enjoyed in the English version that I'd be interested in whether it was present (or at least as noticeable) in the original is that initially 2b is presented in a very stereotypical AI/robot fashion. One of her first lines is the repeated "Emotions are prohibited" but as the game goes on we learn that rather than game being about the trope of the cold calculating robots only caring about hard logic, this is simply 2b's character. Many of the other androids, even the machines, are openly emotional or caring, but 2b is different. It makes us suddenly more interested in her.
It was a really interesting play on my expectations as to the character when she was first introduced, and fit well with the way Taro often reframes events and characters, but now I'm wondering if my reading is more down to the interpretation during localisation than original intent.
Another thing to consider is maybe the localization team wanted to put a bigger gap between the "follow every order" and "I'm a sentient being with emotions" for 2B. I realized while playing through for my 4th time that the only real time she shows emotion is when she is alone or not being monitored. Most of the time it's like she's trying to close off that part of herself and that's why the scene with Adam is such a compelling moment for a lot of us. Her genuine disgust for his abuse towards 9S to get a rise out of her and the heart wrenching fear/despair upon seeing her partner in that state becomes so vivid in her voice and over-exaggerated body language thanks to the fact that normally she tries to act as detached as she can.
She knows her purpose and the orders entrusted to her from command. She knows what she truly has to do but through time spent with 9S and the machines down below coupled with the knowledge she gains during her missions 2B grows into this being that is capable of emotion. You can clearly hear it in her voice each time she has to "kill" 9S and even when the robot village is destroyed.
I feel like this comment doesn't make much sense but basically localization team wanted a larger gap between the two different sides of 2B more than likely since that is what most western media wants. Watching a character go from a calculating soldier to a being capable of pure emotion is something that happens a lot in movies these days over here in the west.
This was great!
Also, you could totally do a 2H language class, i'd listen to it for sure!
Erdna SpeedSoldier or she could do a 2B language class
Any reason to listen to Fortress of Lies again is valid for me to watch another of your Nier videos :)
I’ve never actually realized what those differences were between the Japanese and English speaking patterns, that was very intriguing to me.
About the "I'm good" part, you'll understand the Japanese version even more if you've read the extra short stories Yoko Taro wrote for the game. She's not being dismissive like "not as of now". You can also hear a certain sadness in her voice. She used to call him Nines and be very close with him in his past lives and she doesn't want to do so anymore because every time it ends the same way with her killing him and breaking her each time.
So it’s more like “perhaps some day”
I am glad my brother and I weren't the only ones seeing this, its great to see others agree as well. also, I hope you know your are best girl to a lot of people and your videos are very refreshing on topics rarely spoken.
I still need to play this game, oof
Missing out
Get it man, it's really good.
^
It’s not for everyone. As much as it’s been praised I found the game incredibly boring
ogletret Have you beaten it yet?
That return to the videos that made me sub. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Straight to my Yoko Taro playlist.
tl;dr : 2B's outward persona is different, but we see that internally she's pretty well the same. I suspect this was intentional to make it easier for each audience to more directly empathize when her true self is revealed
The more personal response; spoilers below:
I think I could get why it was localized and handled this way, and I think this was a deliberate choice. It seems to me they got the true heart of 2B to read the same way across languages, so in each performance she feels like the same person when her guard is down. The differences seem to come down to coping mechanisms she uses and the persona she chooses to project. By having differences in 2B's persona so that they're more directly relatable to each local audience, I think we are more likely to recognize and appreciate the times where the facade slips. For me personally, having that direct sort of empathy made it a lot easier to believe in 2B's internal life. When the moment comes in Route C, that she can finally let the mask go completely, I truly feel her immense relief because I directly understand the front she's been maintaining. With a more directly translated 2B, I think I might have understood that she was relieved, but only personally felt the sadness of the scene.
All-in-all, I think we end up with a pretty elegant solution in this case; the core of 2B's character, and the way we're meant to feel about her and her story remains largely the same. She's still an incredibly driven woman who cares deeply for people around her, whose mission is nearly impossible to cope with. To survive the internal pain of her situation, she must keep everyone at arm's length, and remain apathetic to external factors. Then, for one brief moment, she could just be a woman who holds some kind of affection for 9S. Our empathy and appreciation for that bittersweet moment might be facilitated by couching it in the kinds of coping behaviors we ourselves would employ.
THANK GOD YOU ARE STILL MAKING NIER/DG VIDEOS!!! OMG YES FINALLY
Thank youuuu. When I played Automata I definitely noticed how 2B had some weirdness. I only played on English and even I raised an eyebrow. Glad this was brought up so thoroughly.
11:17 let's be honest, who wouldn't want a 2 hour language class like that
The music at the end was calming and soothing. Nice Automata is personally on of the greatest games I’ve ever played. Great video.
The talk about differing character archetypes is actually an interesting explanation. I still don't agree with dubs constantly changing characters (particularly 'strong female characters') into snarky assholes, but that point at least makes sense for it. Poor Kaine and Zero reeeeeeally got that treatment I felt, so 2B is definitely not even a horrible offender, but something about her English VA's tone overall makes me feel they intended her to be more dry and sarcastic rather than sometimes awkwardly softspoken because of her focus on getting the job done, and it was offputting for me.
Overall a really great video! You brought up a lot of points I hadn't thought about in how English and Japanese differ, which was refreshing. My native tongue is English, so you'd think it would be more obvious, but... I guess that's a testament to how unconscious these things become.
The art of localization is the ability to also transfer emotions, innuendos and slang in your chosen language.
The scene when 9S offers 2B to call him Nines has quite some Nuance to it. The German translation caught this pretty well by saying "Lass mal" which slang for "I'm good", however turning down the offer in a friendly manner. I think what's missing here is a gesture as body language is just as important to deliver someone's motives. Since it was an in-game sequence in a dynamic fight, this wasn't possible and thus 2B sounded rather harsh in that moment. The missing information had been automatically filled by our brain.
In my own language Dutch, 'you' is translated as 'u' for someone who is older than me of who I want to show respect to, like my parents or a police officer. I could call a close friend 'je' or 'jij' which is less formal. Same goes for French, formal 'vous' and more intimate 'tu'. And the German 'sie' and 'du'. As far as I know the English language is the only one that does not make that distinction, I wonder why. But very nice video, and thanks for explaining!
English used to have it, but modern day English doesn't. For examples, see the English version of the Bible and look up what the difference between "thee" and "thou" is (hint: formality). Now, why don't we use it anymore? There's several reasons.
Firstly, much like in Australia, America's English went through a reboot in education standards, because of the lack of a formal education system during its establishment. There were no schools in America when settlers came here. There was nothing here. So, things became much more simplified in English.
Even before this, Old English lost the formal-ness because of... many historical reasons, involving different education standards between the rich/powerful and the poor/weak. At one time, royalty used to speak French, even if they lived in places that spoke English. So, "proper" English might not have been so perpetuated as in other cultures, since those that were well-educated were probably taught Latin or French.
Also, you can convey formality and respect in English simply by choosing the right way to phrase things. So it's largely unnecessary. I'd even argue that in many languages it is equally unnecessary, and is a remnant of the old-school "respect your elders" mentality of most cultures that continues to get taught.
@@petersutor5845 Makes a lot of sense, thanks Peter. My native tongue is Frisian, spoken only by about half a million people in the north of the Netherlands. But as soon as you go to school everything is in Dutch so you learn that at a very young age. And the downside of living in such a small country is that you are forced to learn some German, French and English if you want to communicate with the rest of the world. So they tried to teach us some in high school.
Do you have any idea why Americans dropped the u in Labour, Neighbour and so on? Besides a few exceptions, aluminium/aluminum, written British and American written English are very similar.
I really just watch your videos to hear you talk, if we're being honest.
I usually watch em twice, because I can't focus on what's being said.
...I can't focus on the second attempt too but it's a good excuse to hear Sophie twice.
She has an amazing giggle too.
I could listen to your voice all day. Subbed!
Nier: Automata + Valkyrie theme = immediate like.
There's a thing in japanese culture about never dismissing a yes/no question outright. When you would answer "no i'm good (thank you)" anywhere else in the world, a japanese person will say "maybe another time" "just a little". Just read another comment that the english VAs said they acted without the japanese VO, but without that information you could think the way 2B dismisses 9S was localized appropriately.
Language influences culture, culture influences language, language influences art, art influences culture, culture influences art, art influences language.
To top it off, all of this is exponential. There are as many differences in the world as there are factors to influence them.
Very late on the video but thanks for the very great analysis on something I never thought even happened
I'm happy that for me it actually didn't change much, I'm a very visual person and attentive to details so from a certain point of the game onward I saw 2B trying to be cold but being very emotional, and not being sassy for real, more like a defense mechanism, which is actually why she became one of my favorite characters, she gets more relatable and likable when you see the strong persona falling off, and finally notice why she tries to hide her feelings and just push through with her responsibilities
But anyway many scenes, specifically big ones as you said still convey the same energy and all
But I can definitely see for some people these small differences could've changed the way the see her, so again it's cool to have that video
Also with the anime that came out not long ago by now, people can see even clearer her kuudere side
I'm not trying to get into the dubs vs subs debate, I am of the position that both are valid options, and you should not feel ashamed of your preference to experience a japanese work in its dubbed form. However, I do think it's important to have in mind that a proper study and understanding of a work recquires an awareness, understanding, and value of the cultural and interpretative context behind it. Inherent qualities that define it beyond words.
Localization is a very difficult job, it goes way beyond understanding the words and translating them to fit the narrative context. In a work as deep as NieR Automata, the task just becomes immeasurably harder.
Persona 4 is the one work that for me is the perfect example of effective localization, it's a heavily japanese game, and the localization never shies away from that fact, the game keeps its soul, its cultural value. Great video!
Damn, the bgm brings me back. Can't believe its been two years now. Great video
Really enjoyed the video. Always love learning how localization ends up changing things in subtle and not so subtle ways especially since I only speak English and only have a cursory understanding of some basic Japanese. Like translation is an art not a science and the translator will always leave their mark on the work. Just a small critique but I found your comment about not criticizing either of the voice actors or the localization team a little odd. Pointing out differences made is a kind of criticism and criticism made in good faith (which I think this video is made in) isn't a bad thing. imho half the point of the thing is the discussion that surrounds it. Sorry if this comment came off as rude that was not my intention. I'm a longtime viewer and I'm really grateful for your work especially for your videos on the Drakennier franchise and your ventures videos always give me a good laugh
They already started working on a sequel with a larger budget. Who else is excited?
Matdrekk Gaming for real?
Can I have the link or source?
Yay!! Another Nier Automata video from ValkyrieAurora!! I just finished this game 2 weeks ago and have seriously binged all of your content on it haha
Got my popcorn ready so I can enjoy a video of yours.
There's another scene that changed the tone of 2B in terms of context. When 2B and 9S were rescuing the little sister machine in the desert, she asked several questions to 9S. When he was asked about making children, 9S asked 2B for help. 2B was a bit hesitant in Japanese and said she can't help even if 9S asked for her help in his desperate voice. Where in English version, 2B just sounded as if she heard something ridiculous and worthless, that she almost dismissed 9S's help. I don't know if 2B reacted in that way in Japanese version because making children was a sensitive issue to tell children even to machines or it was because 9S, the fond of her life, asked in a desperate tone but she didn't want to do anything with her enemy. Anyway, it was interesting for me to see the difference between Japanese and English versions.
She just didn't feel comfortable
Sophie talking about Nier in 2019?? It's a Christmas miracle!!
11:10 No, please continue with this banana quandary.
I love your voice and the video explanation!
so the japanese version shows some more vunerabilities, and a stronger sense of earnestness, where as the american version is more hardened badass.
yes the japaneses version might have a bit more nuiance and complexity to her character, but honestly both characterisations are pretty fantastic tbh. even the american version 2b comes across as a very strong and relatable character, and having only played in english i still loved 2B. so both did a phenominal job. and like valkyrie said, on the emotional high points both absolutely nailed it.
I found that the Japanese script was more of a typical "stoic" character myself... and I thought that the western localization actually worked a lot better with a bit more complexity but that's just me... both are very amazing characters
@@thepurehealer1279 I thought the English localization made 2B more of a typical "feminist" character kinda like Captain Marvel, which was a big turn off for me.
@@Александр-р9ч8в even as a pretty right leaning guy... I didn't see it, she isn't really advocating something or considering herself above she is just kinda... mean, rude, and standoffish, which isn't necessarily a bad negative trait for a character especially since she does warm up a lot to 9s and other surrounding characters
I've been a fan of your work for a very long time now, and safe to say, you've still got that magic touch in your videos. Really enjoyed this!
I understand all of this, but there is one important question that is left unanswered.
When are we gonna see a Sophie 2B cosplay?
Thanks for hour job. Every time i watch one of your videos about nier in a second all my memories wake up reminding me how this game hurted me so bad. I never came back in these two years playing nier again. The contrast between respect and some kind of fear is still here and i'm sure i will have to wait many years hoping to play another title so powerful. What a fanboy am i hahahahhaha.
You know what else was lost in translation? The PC version. Can they for the love of god patch that thing already?
The mod community fixed pretty much everything, although it would be nice if platinum made something official
@@ezepoliyu I've tried modding it, but the fix didn't work. The cutscenes still stutter and the framerate never runs at a solid 60fps, even though it should on my PC.
@@AshXXMayftw specs?? If you want I can help you
@UCulepDmrIdBwTUn1SFs2VqQ I recommend putting everything to max apart from antialiasing, which should be off
Subsequently, the FAR mod, and monitor everything with me I afterburner
Have been watching all of your NieR/Drakengard related videos for the past few days, and they are more than helpful to understand so much about these universes ! Thanks so much for making those, it's great to have content creators still making stuff around those games
Great video. You put into words exactly what I have felt listening to the two versions, as well as tried to explain to other people who didn't get why I preferred one version over the other.
However, I thought your description of pitch in "banana" was off, but I had to make sure. As it turns out, the "ba" has the pitch in Japanese "banana" according to NHK's Accent Dictionary. As well versed in Japanese culture as you are, I'm sure you'll know that it's a reliable source for these things. Funnily enough, it sounds like you're saying it in this way despite putting the pitch over the 'na'.
Spoilers for a 3−4 year old game
It's also implied that 2B used to call 9S "Nines" in his past lives (before she had to execute him), which explains the slight pause/intake of breath before she replies.
This randomly popped up on my feed & I'm glad it did. Really thoughtful video! Expanded my thinking about a game I love.
Really enjoyed the video. Always love learning how localization ends up changing things in subtle and not so subtle ways especially since I only speak English and only have a cursory understanding of some basic Japanese. Just a small critique but I found your comment about not criticizing either of the voice actors or the localization team a little odd. Pointing out differences made is a kind of criticism and criticism made in good faith (which I think this video is made in) isn't a bad thing. imho half the point of the thing is the discussion that surrounds it. Sorry if this comment came off as rude that was not my intention. I'm a longtime viewer and I'm really grateful especially for your videos on the Drakennier franchise and your ventures videos always give me a good laugh
i just wanna take a moment to honestly thank you for making this, to thank you for still paying attention to nier automata and putting the effort and work to make this video for the enjoyment of your viewers, thank you
This isn’t the kind of video I though it would’ve been lol but I learned something so that was cool, I was searching up nier automata stuff because I 100% it recently and found your channel and your videos are nice 👌 subbed
I really really prefer the English adaption on this case. 2B on the Japanese script is way more of a Generic Stoic Anime Character. Is a really really common trope. 2B and 9S are way more emotive, intense and impactful to follow then.
I really enjoy how less traditional of a dub it is in some of the cast choices and dynamics.
I prefer Japanese cause I'm a weeb. That renders me immune to your objectivism.
AHHHHH YOU UPLOADED ON MY BDAY BLESS YOU SOPHIE DEAR
Happy Birthdayyy!! 😊🎉
Language classes is what I’m here for, and you do a great job with both theory and pronouncing words. Keep it up
tl;dr: "I'm not tryin' to say sub > dub, but basically I'm saying sub > dub"
Nah. Original > dub. Always. With original voices you can hear original voice acting directed by original creators and done by actors that are living in source culture. Dub is always taking everything out. Like bootlegs.
Really fascinating! I’m always open to more Nier discussions.
There is another character that is *drastically* changed between English & Japanese: Pod 042.
In Japanese, Pod 042 is voiced by Yasumoto Hiroki. This man has a _deep_ voice and he frequently plays villains. I have a friend who is fluent in Japanese who played Automata. She told me that for much of the game, she found 042 to be pretty intimidating and a little scary. She was anticipating 042 to be a betrayer. In her words, "he's like a really polite yakuza enforcer who could flip out at any moment." Thus, it came as a major shock that 042 turned out to be a genuinely good guy and supporter for the main characters.
This nuance is completely lost in English because 042's voice actor, DC Douglas, just uses his typical "friendly robot" voice. He's played robot characters like this before: Legion in Mass Effect 2/3 and Valimar in Trails of Cold Steel. Douglas can sound intimidating (he voiced Albert Wesker in Resident Evil) but that wasn't the direction that was taken for this game. I feel like the voice director took a listen to his portfolio and said "We'll just go with your Legion/Valimar performance again."
He was actually also the voice actor for Grimoire Noir, which probably *was* the direction they were going with. Which is a little funny considering one of the pod skins is Grimoire Weiss... Anyway, yeah, there was a thing with that. Channeling Previous Nier, rather than Legion. So that was a surprise for me (or maybe others who played Nier before and recognized his voice as 'ah fuck' instead of 'this is fine')
edit for clarification: DC Douglas, I mean. Not Yasumoto Hiroki.
First time I know Nier Automata is because of your video. Thank you
>Be me
>Play with Japanese voices and English subtitles
>Nothing lost in translation
Great video, as someone who works with translation I really enjoyed it. Thank you for taking the time to shed some light on this topic, rarely do people think about the challenges that stem from translation and some of the problems that might arise from it.
ah, gotta love your videos
Love that you’re back to these type of videos!
I could never got enough of yours Nier's content
Dude ur voice just soothes my soul.
It honestly doesn't matter what you are talking about I just enjoy listening to you explaining stuff.
I’m studying Japanese, and thanks to you some of my long term goals are to replay FFXV and Nier Automata in their native languages! I think it’ll be fun to experience how they differ
This video is awesome and useful. I'm probably an outlier but I thought the english localization was amazing and Kira knocked it out of the park. I'm usually a sub snob too.
You really went in depth with the speech stuff, but I always love when you show so much passion for Automata. Good work Val. ^_^
This is really informative and well researched. I also really like how fair and respectful your perspective was to everyone involved in the creation and localization of the game.
Thank you for the video on Automata. No one's gonna see this comment tho
Great video. I appreciate 2B despite the differences. They all did quite well
0:30
Is this a reference to the clenched fist meme?
Came for the Automata trivia, stayed for the language class. This was really interesting and well put together, keep up the splendid work.
Oof
It's not really a jrpg though
@Alchalei If you define it like that the genre is a useless descriptor since both Nier and Octopath Traveller would be in the same genre, despite having fundamentally different gameplay design.
Sorry, I guess I’ve been misusing the word “Jrpg”
I would say Nier Automata is an ARPG. I would consider turn based games like Final Fantasy or Persona as a JRPG imo
I miss her 😔
Amazing video it is so interesting to consider how even language affects culture. Plus your intro never gets Old
For April fools, can you do Pokémon Rice Balls 🍙 lost in translation
Nani? More NieR? From one of my favorite NieR-tubers? Real shit?
Honestly I'd like to say I really love this video.
Long rant below. TLDR: I like subs over dubs.
I found that literal text translations in media from one language to another are often quite on point. When it comes to localization of more complex things like jokes or cultural references, usually the localization team does a really good job too. Don't get me wrong, it's a really hard job and I always really appreciate them for their hard work.
As you have more elegantly explained in this video, usually it's the "character" of a character that I notice gets lost in translation, especially when it comes to voice acting in my opinion. I often get the feeling that the emotional tone usually gets based off of the script instead of basing it off of the script AND tone of the original. I'm never sure if it's intentionally that way or not though. It's like first comes the literal translation of the script to convey what was spoken, then comes the emotional interpretation of the translated script (which actually is a lot of pressure on the voice actors). Unfortunately, a 1 to 1 interpretation would usually need a good understanding of how both languages feel and it's not really timely learning a whole new language. When speaking it's a combination of both words and emotion. On top of that, the choice of vocabulary can both influence and be influenced by the interpreted emotion. I.e, the interpreted emotion can actually bring a change to what's being said, which can end up going down a deep rabbit hole further diverging the interpreted and original character.
Just going off of the first example given (3:23), the Japanese version just about literally translates as (although there may be better translations)
"(It's) going to reuse dead androids to attack us!?" Stated more as an exclamation than a question and, as mentioned, aprehensively.
Again as mentioned, in English it's more sassy and dismissive. Honestly I that it could have been said aprehensively in English quite simply, but I feel that the interpretation of the translated script could have been a result of lack of emotional context/reference, wether or not this was intentional. A different interpretation of the !? could have led to the word "seriously" getting inserted due to the perceived weight of the matter, then leading to the sassy emotion emerging as a result.
These differences would be small by themselves, but cumulatively they shape how we see a character.
I'm not sure of others but I tend to "snowball" my interpretations of a character, say in a book, until rarely something happens which might cause me to change my thoughts about them. I'm not talking "character development", more so "oh so they may have actually said it this way" kind of thing. Honestly if just given a script, there could be multiple ways of interpreting a character's "character" and I really enjoy seeing (or hearing) another person's interpretation. It's like breathing a new life into them, which sometimes even warrants new playthroughs in my opinion.
Again, I do enjoy finding these differences though when it comes to localized media like this. It's really interesting how different a story or character can be even though literally the script is exactly the same. In general, I happen to find myself gravitating towards original content over localized content. Stuff originally in English I prefer it in its original form, and likewise for others, like Japanese. SUBS OVER DUBS
Anyways, I've ranted enough and I'll stop here.
E S S A Y
A L E R T
Any decision in localization that changes the intended characterization or tone of a scene makes said localization a complete and utter failure on its one core task: translating the exact experience and emotional response into another language.
Mostly the localization is pretty good, I like the voice actors even if some of the delivery is somewhat stiff. But this kind of stuff just annoys me.
To give credit where It is due, I don't think anything was butchered completely other than these ample of the Simone fight. In the roller coaster ride, I don't think KB's "I'm...good." totally fails to capture the intended effect. If it was clipped, it could've seemed cold, dismissive, or even disdainful. However, the forward pause seems to indicate that she is lost in thought for a moment, and the "I'm good" shows her using her better(?) judgement to stifle a more emotional response - whether positive or negative would be left up to interpretation of the audience (until her feelings are made clear), but she's not outright dismissive.
More so than anything else, I interpret this as just mostly ignorance of how the character is supposed to be understood. Repressed, small, doll like. "Emotions are prohibited" Is less like "leave your emotions out of it and focus on the mission at hand", As in the dub, and more "utilitarian dehumanization", very clearly shown in the original.
The end result being, weirdly, that dub to be seems distinctly more human, just more sarcastic and worn down. Compare this to emotionally repressed Battle doll suffering bot that original 2b is.
Sadly, when viewed in that sense, they aren't different interpretations of the same character - they're completely different characters entirely.
Another excellent layer of analysis by one of my favorite DrakeNieR youtubers. Thanks for the effort you put in.
I've always preferred English dubs. When I was younger it was mostly so I didn't have to read and still part of the reason. Mostly though I prefer English because I am only fluent in English and because of that I will be lose most of the emotional and vocal meaning behind the VAs performances. I don't dislike other language audio options, I just prefer english so I know I will get the most out of it that I can.
I don't even remember what this video is about ,to be honest. Who knows
You're from English speaking country and you never left the borders of your country? This is ridiculous. You don't need to know the language to be able to recognize human emotions. Dubs are always a fake experience. You're losing everything that original creators worked hard on.