CNC Fräsen 🅗🅘🅖🅗 🅕🅔🅔🅓 🅥🅢 🅓🅔🅔🅟 🅒🅤🅣 [the Same Tool]
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
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Videobeschreibung (Video description):
Werkzeugdurchmesser Ø 40 mm
Durchmesser Bohrung D70 mm
Bearbeitung Helix und Vollnut
👈 LINKS High Feed milling
Vorschub fz:1,3 mm
Ae: 40 mm
Zustellung Ap: 0,8 mm
Schneiden: Z 6
👉 RECHTS Deep Cut milling
Werkzeugdurchmesser Ø 40 mm
Vorschub fz: 0,2 mm
Zustellung Ae: 2,5 mm
Schneiden: Z 6
Grundsätzlich wenn man die Schnittwerte vergleicht hat man schon ganz einfach ein Ergebnis:
0,8*1,3 = 1,04 bei High Feed
2,5*0,2 = 0,5 bei Deep Cut
Die High Feed Variante ist also doppelt so schnell wie die andere, sehr schön zu sehen beim Helixfräsen.
Allerdings werden bei der Nut enorm viele unnötige Leerbewegungen erzeugt, diese würden bei einer Zickzack Zustellung entfallen und dann wäre die High Feed Variante dort auch doppelt so schnell.
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Ah yes, the high speed goes at high speed :P
Yes its True :)
That's why we do roughing passes followed by finishing passes.
I worked in a variety of machine shops over a 20-year career and I can say, they were mostly shops that programed cuts like the right side lol.
Subscribe to this channel so that you don't miss any comparisons anymore!!!
what happened to the old method of going fast for the majority of work down to the the last 2/10th of a millimeter and then going slow for the last two 2ths to get a smooth surface?
Far less chatter in the "heavy" cut the faster feed cut will require a finishing pass on all three areas. Also it may save you time now but could cost you in machine repairs in the future . A wise man once said " all rushing does is give you time to do it over when you screw it up" . Take your time and have it done right the first time, but it is fun to experiment with different feeds , speeds, and depth of cut to see what your machine and tooling are capable of handling
Leave about 0.01" of stock on the axial and radial for a finish pass and no one will be the wiser.
Look at it this way: In the manufacturing world if a part can be made faster then someone else will do just that, and undercut you on price.
@@tbdcreations5370 they will also go bankrupt if they only see speed=money and completely overload their workers and their tools
@@allahsnackbar9915 There’s an ideal balance, I suppose.
But again, CNC manufacturing is a cutthroat business. If you’re not fast enough then you’re either losing money on a job or losing the job altogether (to someone else).
Also, who said anything about overloading tools? The idea would be to use your machine tools to their full potential. They’re not consumer-grade toys, they’re industrial equipment built to certain specs. Stay within their rated limits and there’s no problem.
@@bigboreracing356 and the wealthy want to put a stop to manufacturing because....? people do things for reasons, and they act in their own best interests. if someone owns a cnc shop, and just "stops", as you say, what's in it for them?
Once the quarantine started I lost business so I had to start working at other shops. It cracks me up how everyone is an expert yet does things differently. Machinist are hard to agree with. Especially with feeds and speeds. Kyocera is my weapon. The sales guy brings me cutters and some tech data and I just run it like that. Some inserts run for years before I have to flip them. And some times I push them to see what will happen.
Never seen an insert last years being used. I do like kyocera inserts and their feed mills are badass
@@mattcaesar5781 all depend of material, i have incert to work brass and aluminium 20/30 for one year
@@blacksmithcbr Any tips on machining bronze with smaller end mills, 1/4 and smaller? I need to make a plaque in a few weeks and have never worked with bronze before.
@@chrisf8584 no milling, turning, i know is not the same stress for insert, i use seco tools
@@chrisf8584 it cuts greats. Plenty of coolant or oil youll be fine
As I production worker I prefer the deep cut.😂
@@bigboreracing356 huh, mine liked the high speed...
Mine worked for HK so she didn't do any compromise and always asked for deep high speed.
Damn right lol cant fuck up them rates by going to fast now 😂
There's more to it than this. Every tool has an optimal depth and feed rate. You can damage your tool either by too shallow or too deep of a cut or "pass". You should always go off of the manufacturer's recommendations.
That's the special thing... this tool can be both without problems!
@@bigboreracing356 including, but not limited to, paying for another one!
You should check what makes the tool wears faster. Also, does one method affect tolerances over other?
@@CalaTec Tolerance would easily be effected by remaining wall thickness of the work piece. A thin wall will flex more under a heavy cut and could potentially be to thin in the middle of a long cut.
Honestly there are times and places for both methods. Ultimately though the goal is to push machine and tool hard enough to make money but not so hard that it costs you money.
Пилил две доски турбинкой, диск по дереву с победитовыми напайками. Был не уверен,что нужной стороной диск закрепил... Отрезал распил черный, резалось с трудом( и как оказалось дольше). Развернул диск, получилось отрезать быстрее, легче и без обугливания. Правда класс!)
Chip load is a real thing. My father used to ask why I didn't take deeper cuts until I showed him the difference on our crappy manual mill/lathe.
Use high speed to launch the shreds at bystanders, great for take your kid to work day
@@bigboreracing356 just.... 😳
I pay for the entire cutting Edge, I am gonna use the entire cutting edge! You do whatever you like ;)
In our tests. using less depth of cut with high feed mills increase tool life, process reliability and machine life. Deep cuts where only better on the machines that could handle it maintaining the high feef
@@bigboreracing356 real life aplication on mold making. 2d contour, 3d profile roughing by Z level and helical interpolation. material p20, aisi 2711
@@MrVinicius343 that sounds very interesting. How did you test exactly? Usually Tools degrade due to alternating load. The longer you cut, the more the material gets stressed. When you cut less deep your have to cut much longer, ergo your tool will remove less material before breakage.
@@peteraugust5295 we test our tools in real parts, they're all one offs but all similar. The program we use is top solid and the strategy try to never go above the maximum lateral increment unless it's impossible not to. We found out that the heat and stress on the part/machine generated by a more aggressive depth of cut, Causes vibrations making micro fractures inducing premature failures. Since the bigger machines also work with bigger parts. Vibrations become much less likely to happen making more AP viable
@@MrVinicius343 So what was the depth of cut with what kind of tool for the both parts compared? Was the feedrate identical? Are we speaking 0.1mm compared to 5mm oder 1mm compared to 3mm?
kannst du mal high feed vs deep deep so dass man das Gleiche Zeitspanensvolumen hat und dann zum Schluss schauen, wie die wendeschneidplatten aussehen.
I'm just a novice but given chips and finish I'd go with the slower feed. Especially since the faster feed was only just slightly faster. The slower feed looks to make better use of the life of the tool.
You can do guillochage without trying, that's pretty cool
Which one held a better tolerance?
Doesn’t matter cause it’s just roughing.
Normalli fast(no overheat)
Feels like im back at work
Lição de vida: Às vezes, quem age mais rápido consegue mais do que quem age com mais capacidade.
I am not a cnc head but i discovered a new music genre "cnc ambient".
Great. Great new video
At the end those patterns in the holes were super pretty.
Yes, that's true
I want a pattern like that in my hole.
It's like listening to classic music, next time do two tracks of sound, left for left machine, right for right machine
The high speed one was like : Flashh!!!!!
The slow one was like : Bruh, slow down!! 😂😂😂
*Yes*
for people who don't know , high speed will get the job done faster but also won't give you that sleek finish.
Basically one goes brrr brrr brrr brrr and the other goes brrrrrrrrrrr brrrrrrrrrrr
I feel the deep cut could of matched the with the high feed rate. Didn't look much deeper
my 5HP miltronics mill couldnt cut like this 15- 20 HP, also linear ways or box ways, and part weight, so many variables !!
Why depth at deep cut is so small! It is not deep cut, it is small depth and small feed cut)
They are high feed tips, generally have a lower amount of cutting edge in the vertical axis
In my university my teacher would be yelling be for using deep cut because "YOU ARE DESTROYING THE DAMN TOOL"
😂😂
I had a prof in a speeds and feeds class who works for a major tooling company tell us all about the merits of high feed
The other thing to consider is the speed of the machine. A standard Haas VF6 with a large part in it (which is the machine I use for making large fixtures) is going to spend a lot of time doing “rapid” movements with the high speed instead of cutting.
and aheavy part making lots of rapids would be hard on the linear ways and motors
Is it true that high speed machining is more efficient at removing heat from the tips in the swarfe? So the rate of volume removal is higher
They use hsm -mill for "deep" cut too. So in this case - hsm wins:))
Классная фрезеровка!
Большое спасибо
But how does the highspeed look and feel after? And which is harder on the machine itself?
I love this music 🎵
let's see the insert wear.
It will finish faster with high feed obviously but deep cut makes it smoother especially if you want to achieve level of flatness.
Don’t forget that deeper cuts will also use more of the tools cutting edge so you should see less wear on the tips. Even more important with inserts going up in price all the time
@@Tom-Tron Very true, it's all about efficiency.
Not a dang site doing this fast cut stuff talks about tool life. Ever time you change inserts cost you $$$$$. There is a happy pay off point and one must find that.
This is one of those my mom vs my dad ads
😂😂😂
BOOM, oops wrong channel
😂 nice
Are we not considering the additional wear and tear on the machine?
The slower feed sounds like a cello
A better title would have been ‘The right and wrong way to use a high feed tool’. This is not a true comparison of high feed vs deep cut machining.
Notice how your content didn't get a like by the creator?
Slower feed rate is easier on the machine, correct.?
Les wear and tear.?
Nice video but we had expection some explanation on it then only we can understand other wise it will be looks like a show
Not very knowledgeable in metal cutting so i have to ask, which one is better?
Queria ver o desgaste dos bits como ficou nas duas situações.
yea, but you would use different tool for deep cuts. like a shoulder mill or something, not a high speed cutter. lol
High feed won than most cut at speed of done details if has low after milling plane.
Высокая подача выигрывает в скорости деталепроизводства если не нужна высокая шероховатость, но за частоту отвечает финишный проход, что собственно нивилирует недостаток. Поэтому всё же для скоростного производства выиграет подача. А так - по барабану. Там написаны рабочие диапазоны, что никак не ставит никакой режим выше другого. Просто предпочтение оператора, и возможность металлу вытерпеть это и не сломаться при изготовлении.
High speed looks very nice:))
Yes 🙌
The amount of material and energy used for human entertainment is unsustainable.
Yet here you are wasting energy watching and commenting on it.
please show the spindle speeds and spindle and axis loads when testing !!
Fascinating! Thx
Thx too:)
Not a fair comparison. Using the optimised tool and code for high speed and only adjusting depth of cut and feed. Try again when you optimise both the way the should be.
Are you saying they could have gone faster on the deeper cuts by slowing down the spindle or what? Not sure what you're saying.
Thanks
@@unaffected_covid I’m saying that their tool path and the selected tool and quite possibly the cutting tips are all optimised for high speed machining strategy.
@@brendonamos1669 ...and not for deep cutting? Ok, I see. So if they built the cutter with a grade of insert that is best for deep cutting, along with proper speeds and feeds, then you can compare the two again each other. Gotcha! 😉
Dude, this tool claims to be able to do both so they are testing it to see...
While using milling machine in college i remember splitting cutter in half because i cut too deep , so yeah i prefer fast cut
Sure is safe
You have to lower speed in case cutter goes broken. And when cutter is overheating you should decrease pass depth.
This high speed and low pass depth shown in the video causes a lot of useless moves by cnc. And I am pretty sure that this speed in higher pass depth was too slow. You can increase speed, man.
Это называется всему свое время. Баба рожает через 9 месяцев. Овощной урожай 90-120 дней.
I wonder how much difference optimising the non cutting moves to a fast feed would make on the deep cut side
Its usually a rapid movement or G00 which travels as fast as the machine can. Not much you can do really, you could probably cut both ways and save a bunch of time here but after each pass they lift up move back and only cut one way. The straight cuts in the middle of the video could be done coming back to the camera aswell, i do this and saves alot of time.
@@Beldoras I mean at 1:25 the deep cut one feeds at the same speed for the non cutting part. I would not program that way given the choice. I’d have a fast feed as the link move if I could using the cam.
@@danhyde7501 Yes odd, fuck knows what theyre doing, we use onecnc and it knows when its in the cut and when not and so rapids when not in the cut. or if i was to programme at the control, (we have haas) it would be as i said with a g00 and i would be cutting the other way too, so towards the camera, alot of wasted time moving up in the bore and back to the front to drop back down again, just cut both ways is alot faster. 👍
No idea what's going on here, but nice
So I'm guessing the right side provides better cleaner cuts and the left side is when you need to get it done now lol
Didn't see any deep cut, where is it?
Deep cut has less final clean up. Im just wondering about the life expectancy on the spindles/cutters on fast vs deep.
High feed milling is less abusive to machine and the tool than the other method
@@machiningmule5525 the Z axis is going up & down 3 or 4 times more than the deep cut , the X & Y are changing direction at a much higher feed rate.
Most of my roughing is done with a 40mm bullnose cutter , 4 tip ,6mm radius , 3.3mm depth of cut 2400rpm 3600mm/ min. I do have a 63mm diameter cutter , 6 tips ( same as the 40mm ) , but my mill lacks the torque to run the same surface speed & chip load.
Интересно
Which mode is more efficient also depends on material.
I'm from Vietnam, nice to know you're passionate about mechanics 👍👍 let's share experiences together
Мелодия прогресса
If it's a clearance feature, go fast. If not, slow down at the end.
As a older man i sympathise with the one on the right.😑
Смотря какие режимы будут 🤔🤔
I want one. I don't think I have a current use for one, but I'm sure I'll think of something.
This on the right seems to be better !
At the beginning, we can see some fire/flamme on metal on the left one. It seems to be some fusion, so it s too fast, metal could be deformed...
Nah, they are not using coolant so the chips are going to be hotter completely normal under these conditions, the "flame" you see is just the chips heating up.
Throwing some heat
On the left, it makes me cringe 😂
It was smart idea to use both spindles simultaneously! :)
Nice video edit. Not double spindle.
@@FratDede Oh... now I get it. You just don't know about new version of g-code. You can try M222 P2 command and second spindle will certainly appear!
I'm pretty sure this M-code should work on the all German machines with Siemens cnc :)
@@cut-metal its a hermle so most certainly it has a heidenhain control
How can you compare the same tool at two different methods of milling? If it is a high feed tool of coures it will give better resoult at high feeds and it is not made for deep cut milling
It's a tool that, according to the manufacturer, can do both!
which takes the most spindle HP and is the high speed hard on the axis
The Right Site
Which would you say effects tool life more?
The deeper cut will put more chip load on the insert. Cutting like that, you'll have to index more often.
In general, isn’t it better for the tool to run at higher speeds with less material removed at a time? I’ve actually ran some test and there was a much lower spindle load and with more material being removed. This was with 6061 aluminum though. Not sure how that changes with steel
Aluminium is a joke to cut, can cut through it like butter with a good sharp tool, not so with stainless steels 😂
I reckon it should be which type of pattern do you want, LOL. Do you want kind of rough diamond shape or smoother diamond shape.
😂
So witch way is better? The slow cut surface looks better but needs more time. So now i have more question then bevor 😂.
Is this cheap vs quality?
Friction....... If the feed is too slow, more heat is generated.. Making the metal surface soft therefore cuts are not Clean...
Загубят фрезы без охлаждения
Is there any reason or circumstances to use deep cut?
Yes, if the machine doesn't bring the speed or if the surface needs to get better. And in some cases it's also faster :)
This depends so much on the tool
Cool video now do a strength test
Ok 👌
Quality vs Production
How you calculate the feed and revo lutions ?, where you find the formules?
Can you help me whit that, im start in this World of the tools-machins and cncs
With your machine you'll get a calculator (caliper) for the feed rate and speed. Or you should get one at your school.
Every machine have a little other specs and you can't cut above the max. or you damage the machine (cnc spindle) and this is expensive. Any machine with air pressure or magnetic bearing may get a higher load then a traditional ceramic bearing.
You should add more cooling anyway but you can't show the cut with the waterfall of cooling and it's pain to clean the machine afterwards.
@@losttownstreet3409 that good, but, what is the information in back of the packing of the insert, deep of cut and, cut for tooth ,? and I see the cut and speed you need will also have to see which steel and what insert you use,
Where is the deep cut 🤔 😅
What about high speed deep cuts😁
Come to my other channel on the hub... I'll show fast and deep. ;)
What about tool life
And after that high speed replacement of carbides
👍 👍 👍
Thanks
This proves nothing when taking a deep cut you should be taking smaller radial cuts. Or am I missing the point?
It's the tortoise and the hare.
Slow and steady wins the race is not always the case in CNC machining.
whats the purpose of comparing the same tool ?
unless it has different inserts ? was it the case ?
Different feeds and speeds. You can see the difference in surface finishes
@@sedon7098
advantage of using the round corner for high feed then.
The tool claims it can do both strategies.
You lose tool life when going at a faster feed rate. More heat generated material hardens as you cut but you lose cycle time for product, sfm also is a variable
Что показывает это видео? То, что программа, выполняющаяся за меньшее время, выполняется быстрее? Вот так сюрприз.
Это показывает, что инструмент можно использовать с двумя разными технологиями. И результат можно увидеть в видео!
Скорость = качество обработки
So which robot won?
The left one :)
No cooling?
No Need cooling its ok 👌
@@CNCAkademy wow! What tools is that?
Why exactly am i watching this?
no coolant?
No Need :)