How to Pray the Lutheran Rosary
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 сер 2013
- My website: www.JordanBCooper.com
Patreon: / justandsinner
A discussion of the use of prayer beads in your personal devotions. I give some instructions for how Lutherans can use this practice.
I have more detailed instructions here:
justandsinner.blogspot.com/201...
Thanks everyone for watching the video. Check out the other content on my channel, as my quality has gotten a lot better since this upload a few years ago.
Sharon Mccaffrey --- you mean the church that sold indulgences telling people to pay money and you can go to heaven ?
Thank you, I have a LOT of trouble organizing and remembering verses. It sort of distresses me, because what if ever I am unable to access my Bible (by old age or by tribulation), can I receive comfort or help others? Putting verses to music helps, and if I get into a routine, I think this will be most helpful as well. Another tool for my arsenal. Thank you for all you do. (Newb LCMS here)
Thank you so much for posting this! Would you be willing to post a link where one might be able to purchase a Luther rose rosary, if that happens to still be a possibility?
IF LUTHERANS PRAY THE ROSARY I SEE THEY STILL TAKE PART IN MANY OF THE NON SCRIPTURAL TRADITIONS OF MEN AS THE CATHOLICS DO
PRAYER IS FAITH BASED AND THE TRUE BELIEVER NEED NO IDOLS TO KISS & FEEL AS PRAYER IS OF THE INTERNAL SPIRIT
ALL WE NEED IS THE HOLY SPIRIT INSIDE OF US NOT SOMETHING TO HOLD ONTO OUTSIDE OF US, WHICH SWITCHES YOUR BELIEF IN THE IDOL NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT
Romans 8
6. In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.27. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
@@lovefaith1714 I have been Lutheran all my life and I have never heard of Lutheran prayer beads.
Tradition is good, it helps focus. Anything that is contrary to Scripture must be rejected but many good things are not in the Bible. Or do reject anesthesia for surgery, electricity, the internet and powered vehicles? None of those things is in the Bible.
@ Jordan Cooper, don't let the negative comments affect you. You are educating the religious world in helping everyone understand that the rosary isn't just for Catholics. Good job, my brother.
As an Episcopalian just learning the Catholic rosary (What did you do for 3 years of pandemic isolation? I grew my natural hair color out, learned to make cheese and to pray the Catholic rosary... lol.) So I decided to look up the Anglican rosary and I found you. I have been wrestling with the whole "praying to Mary" thing as many protestants do. When you said to pray the Magnificat I thought, that's perfect! That is what I really want to say when I pray the rosary. It honors Mary as the Queen of heaven that she is and the Holiest woman God ever created. The 🌹 mother of the son of God, Jesus the Christ. So I will try this out for a while with the Magnificat and see how it goes. Thanks for a great 👍 suggestion. God bless you 🙏.
@@gailhall6283Yes!! The mother of God. Wonderful.
no, you're absolutely correct. its not just for catholics. Its not for ANYONE.
Ex Catholic, now LCMS. I’ve been trying to find daily devotions but Lutherans don’t seem to have the kind I’m used to. This will help fill that void I’ve been feeling! Thank you!
Yes, we do! The CPH store has tons. I'm a cheapskate, and I like to listen to my devotion while I sweep and wipe down my classroom. I listen to Pr. Will Weedon's "The Word of the Lord Endures Forever" daily devotional podcast.
The Lady of Guadalupe story is real. Our Lady of Lajas also real. Both left behind miraculous images. Our Lady of Lourdes is real. If anyone analyzes the evidence. They can learn the role Mary plays
amen@@JJ-cw3nf
why would you leave? Ephesians 1:22-23
@@JJ-cw3nfDon't steal sheep.
I know this is a really old video to comment on, but I just wanted to talk about how I use the rosary as a Lutheran. For the most part, I follow the Roman Catholic format like Dr. Cooper was talking about in the video. I even follow a daily mystery calendar (however, I switched some days around to make it "feel" more Lutheran, ie. Wed being a sorrowful day instead of glorious).
The only mystery I felt necessary to change was the Glorious. I replaced the assumption of Mary into heaven and the coronation of Mary as queen of heaven and earth. What I put there instead was the anticipation of the second coming of Christ using 1 Cor 15:23 as the scripture attached to it and the Resurrection of the dead using Mt. 22:29-33. I felt these topics better fit the mystery of glorious.
I do still use the pre-Trent Hail Mary like Dr. Cooper mentioned. To counter act the idea that I am praying to Mary I end the rosary with Luther's commentary on Mary. I will include the entire thing here, as it has helped me immensely grapple with the idea of revering the saints without worshiping them.
"O Blessed Virgin, Mother of God, what great comfort God has shown us in you, by so graciously regarding your unworthiness and low estate. This encourages us to believe that henceforth He will not despise us poor and lowly ones, but graciously regard us also, according to your example."
I hope this helps other Lutherans out there who want to add this amazing devotional tool to their lives. Also, I want to thank Dr. Cooper for this video and all of his videos. They have been a great help to my life and to those in my congregation lives.
How amazing! I remember Fr Luther's commentary on the Magnificant while I was in RC seminary.
1:55 - Explaining rosary history.
2:30 - Going thru the beads:
3:01 - Going thru small catechism:
3:12 - Meditate on these:
1st set: The Cross.
2nd set: Shema Yisrael, & 10 Commandments.
3rd set: Apostles Creed.
4th set: Lord's prayer.
5th set: Sacrament: What it is to be Baptized.
6th set: Confession -> to God.
7th set: Sacrament of the Alter: Holy Communion.
5:32 - The Holy Prayers:
1. Touch Crucifix to the Cross, in the name of the Blessed Trinity, Amen.
2. Apostles Creed.
3. Our Father: Lord's/Disciple's Prayer.
4. Jesus Prayer: Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, and on us sinners. Amen.
5. Glory Be to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as in the beginning, is now, and will be forever, Amen.
6:40 - 6. "Bless Mary" :
"LORD GOD, full of grace, bless Mary, the fruit of Thy Word". + Plus "the Magnificat".
7. Meditate on/Memorize the Psalms/Prayers,
And any part/verses of Scripture etc. Amen.
8. Pray for everybody everybody.
The "Glory Be" we used to say in Catholic school in the 50s and 60s ended with "world without end, Amen". Not sure why they had that, but have they removed it since then?
@Andrew They always taught us there would be an end of the world. Jesus will return to judge everyone.
@Andrew We know that, but it wasn't the topic of discussion.
I have used Anglican prayer beads in the past and found helpful Biblical prayers in some of their resources. This weekend was my second time visiting a LCMS church and your content has been extremely helpful. My background is mainline evangelical and had never known about confessional Lutherans. Please continue your necessary and valuable ministry.
I think your strategy of using the rosary to study the catechism and focus on scripture seems very edifying! If I ever do choose to use one, I’ll definitely try that format. Thanks.
Thank you. This was a big help to standardize my morning/evening devotions.
Thank you very much. I have been doing this for a while and it is nice to hear your thoughts on this. Thank you and God bless!
Using the prayer beads whether one is Catholic, Orthodox, Evangelical, or Lutheran it produces holiness (wholeness). In other words, one's thoughts, words, and actions become in concert with each other.
I have been Lutheran all my life and never heard we could pray the rosary. I made my own and have used the rosary prayers of the Church of England. I need to look into this more, as I find gong through the rosary has been as asset to my prayer life.
I was looking for this. This is indeed very helpful. Thanks.
I had the same idea using small catechism ;) thanks for sharing. I'm developing my own rosary as well.
The divine mercy chaplet is a beautiful prayer 🙏
for everyones informaton martin luther prayed the rosary until he died.it was the lutheran church that stopped this.read about luther and watch documentaries on him . love to all
Actually the Lutheran Church kept a lot of practices from the Pre-Reformation. They didn't stop using the rosary, though it's purpose was modified (they also didn't stop doing the lectionary with the Apocrypha) -- these were practices that were kept in the early days of Lutheranism, but unfortunately were changed in order to "fit in with Protestants" when coming to America.
@@aaroncarlson1162 how enlightening! Gnesio-lutherans were high church..
One Lutheran writer 16 century had a book published on Eucharistic benediction and on Rosary! Constubtantion has roots in Rc theology.
@@andrewhuss8265 Welcome home
@@michaelciccone2194 I'd like to read that author if you could point out who exactly?
@Andrew Huss Beads were enough for you to disgrace the protestant martyrs?
I use my Roman rosary daily during Lent. The rosary was a gift from my Grandfather. For prayers I use the apostles creed to start, the Lord's prayer, and the "Glory Be" just like my Gpa taught me. I substitute for the "Hail Mary" using either the Jesus Prayer (as mentioned in this video) or a modified version of the Hail Mary:
Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is With thee, Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ
You shouldn't be afraid to pray the Hail Mary prayer, Luther himself prayed to Mary
“The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.” Martin Luther
@@figurefour633 Amen. Luther himself said, "Whoever possesses a firm faith says the Hail Mary without danger"
Thank you for the outline.
The Hail Mary for the most part comes straight out of scripture. Nothing wrong with quoting scripture. Christians from the beginning used beads/rope as a means to pray and meditate.
@@mw2416 The part about praying to her leads the weak to idolatry.
Glad I found this video. I didn’t know there was a Lutheran way. Thank you for teaching me Dr Jordan.
Considering current health issues my brother and I are both facing, I may try this tonight. I am somewhat familiar with the rosary already, coming from a Roman Catholic family, but the way you present it here seems more scripturally based.
Hope you're all feeling better. Lord have mercy.
@@BibleLovingLutheran I agree, in Jesus' Holy Name.
Using the Rosary connects the mind with the body.
This is the first video I’m watching on your channel, it has been helpful to me and I wanted to take the time to say so in commenting.
I was raised non-denominational, however my Dad had been raised Assembly of God, my Mom had been raised Catholic, growing up my parents, especially my Mom had enforced more of a Catholic way of meditation and faith for me but due to her past, she was anti-Catholic and shunned everything remotely leaning Catholic. She’s passed on but a part of me leaned towards something I am still trying to understand, the rosary in meditation. The Catholic rosary didn’t sit right with me and I’ve been looking for something similar yet something that doesn’t feel forced in a way that I don’t feel the want to do so daily. I intend to try what you are laying out in this video. Thank you very much.
Looks similar to Anglican prayer beads which I already have. Prayers available online.
Thank you so much for this. Very helpful indeed. One question tho, at what point (bead) would supplications be prayed?
Good video; it’s been a long while since I saw you without your “Calvin beard” (but, probably not Calvin, I’d guess). I got into praying with the Anglican rosary in seminary- mostly using Psalms or the Jesus Prayer. Still do it occasionally, but the daily office/divine hours and extemporaneous prayer are really the “bread and butter” of my prayer life these days. I’ll check to see if you’ve already talked about this, but I’m curious about how/if the Lutheran tradition has used the daily office/liturgy of the hours.
Dr Cooper, could you recommend where I could find Lutheran rosaries? Id love to organize my prayers and this would be a wonderful method to do so! Thank you for the excellent content as always!
Ad Crucem has some beautiful options.
So when using the small catechism method on the section about the cross can you provide some examples pretty please?
This is very interesting. I didn't know there was a Lutheran rosary. Thank you
I’m a steadfast conservative Roman Catholic and was very encouraged to see this
Because my father waslutheran!
al meggs so you went backwards?
@@villarrealmarta6103 forwards. Catholicsm is instituted by Christ, Lutheranism is instituted by......you guessed it 😉🧐
Timothy Freeman oh you’re so wrong
My best friend is Roman Catholic and prays the Rosary daily. I credit this practice in Faith with retreiving him from alcoholism and all its trappings.
He has been dry for nearly 10 years now. Active in his Parish,and a total inspiration for those in his community at large. Praise God, From Whom all Blessings flow.
Doug Riske interesting how you never mentioned if your friend cares about the forgiveness of his sins through the sacrifice of Christ alone. Also is this friend praying to Mary ?
Where did you get a rosary with the Lutheran rose?
I'm curious as to what the actual differences are between the Pre-Trent & Post-Trent Hail Marys...also, the Magnificat is an excellent choice, I'm thinking about incorporating both prayers into my rosary practice, that of the Angelic Psalter & the Magnificat, as well as the Lord's Prayer & the Gloria Patri, maybe I'll add Psalm 23 & John 3:16 too...idk, I've always done the Jesus Prayer on the beads, but I'm thinking about cycling through them 3 times (to symbolize the 150 Psalms) with a different bead prayer each time, maybe Psalm 118:24 the first round, the Angelic Psalter the second round & the Jesus Prayer the third round...idk, I'll have to pray on it. *ba-dump-chhh*
Thanks for this info bud. and God bless
It’s 2023, wow you were young!!!
Hi Jordan, where did you get your rosary?
Hey there Fr Jordan Cooper! Nice video on the rosary! Heheheh.
Sorry, just kidding, Pastor Cooper, I'm Catholic but I respect your beliefs, I've seen your video last year, just revisiting. Just curious, how are the Lutheran rosary beads arranged? As in how many of them, the big beads and the small ones? and how many sets of them? It seems different but similar to the Anglican rosary.
beautiful..thanks much
Do you still do these beads? In 2020?
Here is my idea for Lutheran Rosary:
Make sign of cross and say: In The Name of Father, Son, and Holy spirit.
On Crucifix
O God make speed to save me O Lord make haste to help me (Joyful mysteries)
or
We adore you, O Christ, and we bless you. Because by your holy cross you have redeemed the world. (Sorrowful Mysteries)
or
O Lord, will open my lips. And my tongue shall announce Thy praise. (Glorious Mysteries)
First bead: Apostle Creed
On first three beads:
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, Who was born of a virgin, have mercy upon us. (Joyful)
or
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, Who was crucified for us: have mercy upon us. (Sorrowful)
or
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, Who rose from the dead and ascended into the heavens, have mercy upon us. (Glorious)
ended with:
Glory be to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit: now and forever and unto the ages of ages: Amen. O Holy Trinity, have mercy on us.
On gaudes: Lord Prayer (Our Father)
On decade beads:
Taize chant Magnificat (Joyful) or
Taize chant Misericordia Domini (Sorrowful) or
Taize chant In Ressurectione Tua Christe(Glorius)
ended each decade with
Glory Be + Fatima Prayer.
After 5 decades:
Pre Tent Hail Mary or Byzantine Hail Mary+
Advent song Zion Daughter (Joyful), or
Good Friday song Stabat Mater Dolorosa (Sorrowful), or
Luther's Evangelical Praise of Mother of God (Glorious).
Hi, I just received a Lutheran rosary with six beads between two larger beads. There are six sets of the rosary
Love this!!!
Pastor, I have a genuine question about prayer. Is it ever okay to pray in Latin privately or is it something that should be avoided entirely? Latin is probably the main thing that attracts me to Catholicism
There is no problem whatsoever in praying in Latin if you desire to do that.
I use the Anglican Prayer Beads in my personal Spiritual life.
Thumbs up! Thanks for sharing.
I see you are wearing a blue cassock in thus video. When did the associate start matching the colors of the Church year.
I want to know where the rosary is sold
Where can I purchase a "Lutheran Rosary?"
James Workman Etsy has many of them
I get mine on Etsy.
Hoping to find out if you still pray the Rosary?
.... how do you use this set of prayer beads?
Pastor Cooper,
Catholics also have a Scriptural Rosary that might be helpful to listen to.
I listen to / recite a Scriptural Rosary app developed at Franciscan University by Joe Meineke.
The download uses the Joyful, Sorrowful, Glorious and Luminous mysteries of Christ's birth, earthly life, passion, death and Resurrection - as seen through His Mother's eyes.
Each bead retells the Gospel by reciting a short Scripture passage.
(We aren't praying for Mary, we ask her to pray for us now and at the hour of our death)
Everytime I listen to this man talk about Cathoicism he always misses these huge gigantic marks!!
Nobody prays for Mary. We need her help, not the other way round.
@@thekingslady1 We are not to pray to, or for Mary. We pray to God in Jesus' name.
@@ruthgoebel723 we ask Mary to pray for us!
@@thekingslady1 Mary's dead. You can chat with her after the second coming
@@thekingslady1 you do know that according to the scripture Mary can not help us nor can see visit us nor answer prayers because she is dead God makes this clear as he tells us the dead knows nothing and can not hear us. To say Mary can help us or hear our prayers to placing Mary at the same level as God which is a huge no no according to Scriptures.
Where can we find Lutheran prayer beads?
Where can you buy the Lutheran Rosaries?
I pray the Jesus prayer, as the Eastern Orthodox do.
The lcms church i attended says the apostles creed which includes the communion of saints.
how did the Lutheran rosary originates?
I love the idea of using the prayer beads, but I cannot find Lutheran prayer beads anywhere! I became a Lutheran in 2016, and have been growing in my knowledge of the denomination since. I'd love to locate some prayer beads like you have in this video. Any advice as to where I can find? Thank you
You could either use a catholic rosary repurposed if you want a lot of beads, or look up Anglican prayer beads.
I use a Catholic rosary and I have also made my own.
@@1776iscool Anglican beads are quite nice
What happened to my Church?
Can a Presbyterian do this as well?
I mean, I certainly wouldn't say no.
I'm Presbyterian, and I think it's kinda cool.
Please don't haha
Update: I now pray the Anglican rosary.
@ 2:00 you say the beads were first used around the sixth century to keep count of the psalms prayed, so my question is, which sixth century? Before or after Christ?
After Christ not before, plus six century started in the year Ad.
Where can I get a Lutheran rosary?
great ideas
Intro Music A Mighty Fortress is our God by
Joel Rosenberger
The music part is in 0:37-0:42 in this video
ua-cam.com/video/IhQHQWs8B6Y/v-deo.html
A LOT of people have been asking. Thanks!
Roman Catholic, Roman Catholic, Roman Catholic ... have you guys ever heard tht the Orthodox have rosary as well?
They use the prayer rope
No they use the prayer rope. No hail marys
The Wedding Feast at Cana was the first example of intercession, where Jesus did something because his mom urged him, that he otherwise might not have done.
He (God) knew that Mary would
ask him. So He must have decided
to say yes to her request before
she asked it.
As a Lutheran from Papua New Guinea I find prayer beads a bit weird.. and I find ECLA. practices 'un- Lutheran'..
Yeah, he is not ELCA. He just got the beads from there.
They certainly are as of late. He would say the same thing. They've gone off the rails pretty quickly though, and I don't think they were nearly as problematic 8 years ago when this came out.
If Martin Luther sees Mary as the spiritual Mother of all Christians why do the Protestant community teach, preach and behave contrary to this belief?
Because contemporary protestants have thrown away all tradition and ignored the teachings of the conservative and lutheran reformers for pop music and watered down theology
John 6:53 In the words of Jesus " Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him." John 6:60 His disciples murmured "This saying is hard, who can accept it"? And many of them no longer accompanied him. Then Jesus said to the Twelve "Do you also want to leave?" (How can this be misinterpreted by so many? Do they listen to the words spoken by Jesus? What do they not see here?)
Yeah it’s terrible they continue to create new contrary doctrines with no new evidence.
@@user-sm5tu9dq6p don’t forget that Calvinism came in a destroyed theology and replaced it with a new twisted one.
@@user-sm5tu9dq6p nope, we just don’t pray to anyone besides God. Also does this man look or behave like he listens to pop music and waters down theology?
Why do you call it a Rosary then if you don't pray to Mary?
Prayers are like incense or fragrant flowers.
Rosary beads used to be made from rose petals, hence the name.
@@Carina_Rose that is not the reason why it is considered a rose Garland to venerate Mary. They may have been made out of rose petals but that was not the reason it's called a rosary
To all the haters out there ✋ STOP. Are we not to look to Jesus the author and finisher if our faith!? Should our minds be on earthly things or HEAVENLY things!? Would you have your sons and daughters looking to pop icons or Holy ICONS!? THE chose is yours. What fruit do we see because of pop influence on our children!? And as far as vain reputation goes most of the new chorus songs used in church today are vain
reputation.
Amen!
Also the Nicene Creed
have your cake and eat it , too? prayer ropes/beads are simply an aid for those who pray and need a little reminder as to where they are.
Where does the rosary beads mentioned in the bible..?
As mentioned in the video, this is not something we are commanded to do, it is a tool. It doesn’t need to be in the Bible.
Who said it needs to be?
Close somehow to eastern orthodox rosary
@ Steven Emad,
Yes. Also similar to the Divine
Mercy Devotion (in the RCC) too.
"For the sake of your sorrowful, Passion,
Have mercy on us and on the whole world."
But I, personally prefer the Jesus
Prayer over the Rosary or the DM.
Personally, I prefer just doing the 3 daily offices (either Lutheran or Anglican version, since I'm an Anglo-Lutheran).
I love to attend an Anglo-Lutheran church! I think the ALC disappeared a few years ago here in the USA. The wanted Vatican approval...any updates? Maybe you know of such a parish here in the NYC or NJ or even in Pennsylvania?
Me too, although I have used the rosary in place of the little hours, and find that using the Jesus Prayer with the beads or knots useful when walking or hiking or waiting for a bus...
This was really quite interesting. I had thought about a protestant rosary a few days ago but didn't think there would be anything or any approval. Good to know some protestants have taken it and turned it into a good thing.
wow this is an old one
Bro, you cut the intro off just before that sweet fa-re-mi cadence
I attended an American Orthodox church for about a year...and some members used the prayer rope....while saying "the Jesus prayer". You say part of this in this video.
Wow! Just found Dr. Cooper in his early beard period…. Lol
¿Are those brothers to whom Paul asks to pray for him, mediators in some kind of way? ¿Are their prayers listened by God apart from the prayer of Jesus Christ? ¿Or is it that they are members of Jesus Christ, as Paul also says, and so their prayers have value in virtue of Christ's prayer and intercession?
1st Corinthians chapter 15 verse 1 through 4 it is written in the Bible Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins and he was buried and he rose again the third day according to the scriptures if you have faith which means you believe with your whole heart in the gospel message of Jesus Christ written only in the Bible you shall be saved and go to heaven please read Hebrews chapter 1 verse 1 and 2 and 1st Corinthians chapter 15 verse 1 through 4 and Romans chapter 7 chapter 8 and chapter 9 the whole chapters and John chapter 3 verse 16 through 18 as well as Genesis through Revelations it is written in the Bible please see for yourself
👏👏👏
Its like a cheat sheet
Eph. 6, 19: If Paul can ask his brothers to pray for him ¿why not ask Mary to pray for us?
Mary is dead and Scripture forbids us to make contact with the dead. Deut 18
@@jesus-christsonofgod2121 They are Alive in Heaven but they are dead on earth and God made it clear we are not to pray nor contact the dead. And Jesus made it clear we are to come to him alone we where not told to pray to dead people but to pray to Jesus alone. Once you start praying to saints and to Mary to get to Jesus to the Father you are basically saying Jesus wasn't Good enough for you're salvation.
Check Out fr. John A Hardon lectures ...
Where is the beard!?
Omg, it's "baby" Jordan Cooper! Jk. I've been looking into Lutheranism lately, and you seem to be thee Lutheran guru on YT.
Where are the Lutheran Nuns ?
What would you try to do to them if we told you?
There is an order in Arizona or New Mexico? I used to listen to them on the radio 30 years ago. There's also a Lutheran benedictine monastic order in Michigan ?
The Book Of Concord Speaks About The Roman Catholic Rosary.. Faith Alone, Grace Alone..
It's not for salvation, it's prayer and worship of the Lord.
ELCA no bueno
I have both Catholic and Anglican beads..both beautiful. I adopt things and beliefs from different religions..many of my people do. Pleases me. Beauty is found in all of them🌞
I agree, I do the same. It makes my spiritual life complete. I used to be so frustrated thinking I had to narrow everything down to one choice, but not anymore.
"For man looketh on the outward appearance, but God looketh on the heart." 1 Sam 16:7
What denomination are you? It's so hard to pick a church as I feel the same way. Love orthodox Lutheran Anglican. @@doriesse824
Your people? Who?
Why not just say the Eastern Orthodox version, which is the Jesus Prayer said over?
Orthodox prayer ropes (usually) have
a minimum of 70 or 100 knots [unless
it is a purse/pocket prayer rope/chotki]
Is this mandatory for Lutherans? I'm well aware that you don't pray to Mary however using prayer beads has its origins in paganism. Theres no way around this. It's nice that you're trying to use it to help with prayer but it's a pagan technique that the Catholics got from pagans. Do Lutherans have to do this??? To be quite frank it seems to me that if this is the case The Lutheran Church didn't get far enough from the Roman Catholic Church and there a few things that are practiced that dont have their origin in Scripture. I say this in love.
Most Lutherans don't use them.
I'm a Lutheran and have never used them.
The rosary and prayer ropes are not pagan
Almost never used by Lutherans, though a very tiny minority of us do
Now you've ticked off Lutherans AND Catholics LOL
🤣🤣🤣
🤣
Catholics don't pray to Mary. We actually ask her to pray for us, just like we do with other Christians. What is wrong with that? I also used to struggle with this belief, and with many others, but if you actually find out what is the true Catholic doctrine, you'll find that Catholic and Orthodox churches are the most biblical ones (they still don't have the whole truth, but are the closest)
@Crispdrumming we believe she's alive in heaven with God, like other saints.
@Crispdrumming where in the Bible is it that everything we believe should be in the Bible? Sola scriptura contradicts itself because if you believe in it, you actually believe in a statement that is nowhere in the Bible. And there is actually a part in Hebrews, which implies that Christians in heaven watch us and cheer us as witnesses of our lives.
@Crispdrumming I also used to think that, actually not that long ago I wanted to convert to Lutheranism because of that and some other things. We Catholics also believe that Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. As I said we don't pray to Mary. We ask her to pray for us, but she and any other person apart from Jesus can't save us from sin and lead us to Father. It is only that we as Christians are united in one Church, The Body of Christ and we believe that our faith is not only a personal relationship with God, but a common matter and we need to pray for each other and share our struggles. Those already in heaven are a part of Church as well. Sure, Jesus didn't teach us to pray the rosary, but he also didn't give us the Bible and yet Protestants still believe it comes from God.
@Crispdrumming I get it because there are also things about Catholicism that seem very odd and confusing to me, for example doctrine of purgatory and papacy. However I have always believed there are plenty of things that are very true and biblical which come from Catholicism and Orthodoxy, that's why when I considered conversion to Protestantism, Lutheranism seemed like the only right choice for me. Now if I were to convert, I would only choose Orthodox Church. One of the things why we believe that Mary is in heaven is the vision in Revelation 12, which we think is about her as a woman wearing a crown of stars and her offspring which is also mentioned there is the Church. I know this might seem unclear and unobvious, but I think there are actually more reasons. And I want to thank you for a respectful discussion, I don't like that many Protestants don't treat Catholics as fully Christian. To me it's foolish to say that, even though I believe there is certainly one truth, all people who consider Jesus Christ as God and the only source of salvation and follow him are Christians and will eventually get to heaven.
@Crispdrumming out of curiosity, which denomination are you a part of?
Hey Pastor we don't pray to Mary. She prays for us
A rosary to count prayers like the heathen do. Roman Catholics, Moslems and Buddhists. Vain repetition of prayers.
Vain repetition of prayer can also being praying or asking god for the same thing over and over, day in and day out and not meaning it when you are praying it.
go back to your evangelical hillsong bethel worship secular music
Catholics are Christians. Muslims just perverted good things
The ELCA has joined with Rome in 1999 with the ECT.
Your discussion is so complicated
Are you ELCA? please tell me youre not ELCA.. D:
Love your FB OLF group.
Filmore Alvarez It's funny that you thought I was ELCA.
What Lutheran denomination are you?
No need for this.. just pray to the Lord Jesus out of your heart.
Agreed. I find this quite legalistic, why not just read the Holy Word of God and meditate upon his truth.
@@realityjumper6081 exactly. It a unnecessary thing to get dependent on.
@@realityjumper6081 Bizarre to call this legalistic...what do you think legalism is?
You don't have to have to have a rosary, but it is definitely a wonderful tool that can help you deepen your intimacy with God and remember the Blessed Virgin Mary as a spiritual mother and the mercy given by Jesus Christ.
Jordan, thank you for your comments. My only observation is you make general statements as in "Lutherans do not invoke the saints." Some Lutherans do, in spite of there being no witness to this practice in Scripture per se. "We don't believe in praying to Mary," for example, should say "Most Lutherans don't believe...." Some of us do, especially those of us from the Roman Catholic tradition. Your faith is clear. Just be careful. As you know, Martin Luther celebrated her assumption until the end of his life.
The Hail Mary is a Biblical prayer it was what the angel Gabriel said to Mary the Mother of God when he announced her pregnancy. The other part was said when she visited Elizabeth her cousin. And let me ask you one thing: What if She said no? Then we might not even have a saviour today. Just think about that. Catholic means universal and we are the church Christ created. Who created your church?
David Crowell Not really. I'm sure God knew Mary would have accepted her role before He chosen her. Or.. if Mary had said no, God would simply find someone else to fulfill the role. Don't think for a moment God is limited in His will because of human choices. Remember, God chose Saul to be king, but when Saul disobeyed, God simply chose David to continue His will.
Danny Watt True you are correct,but that being said God did not just choose anybody. He chose someone who was conceived without sin and was married to a decedent of David. Prophecy says that the Messiah will be born in the House of David. Also in Luke 1:43 And how does this happen to me that the mother of my LORD should come to me? So lord could only mean 1 thing Jesus Christ so in the Bible it says that she was the Mother of God. She loves you as a son and you do not know that so please be enlightened. May God Bless and I hope you have a very nice summer.
Not sure if you know what it meant. Yes. Mary was descended from David, so was Joseph. But they weren't the only descendants around. And regarding the sinless stature of Mary, you should know that it's not exactly the same as Jesus being sinless. I heard a Catholic archbishop explained it this way. Mary is human, and would have been conceived in sin but God removed her sins by Jesus blood like a credit card kinda way. I don't really agree though, it's an explanation which isn't grounded in Scripture, & if Mary is needed to be conceived sinless to conceive a sinless Jesus, then it should happen the same way with Mary's mother, & her grandmother & so on. Then it would mean that Adam & Eve children could have been conceived without sin too but it doesn't happen this way. If this was a solid doctrine, St Paul, St James, St Peter, St Timothy, St Titus, St John would have mentioned in their epistles. No.. This was introduced later in the church which wasn't grounded in Scripture. Unlike other doctrines like the nicene creed.
But while I don't agree, it doesn't mean that either of us aren't saved by God. That's the greatness of God's grace. As long as our faith is in Jesus alone, He saves us. Even if our understanding of everything else is wrong. I do like some things of the Catholic Church. But I don't see how I can accept things which cannot be proven by Scriptures.
Danny Watt Yes, I agree but I think you need to talk to a priest about this because "obviously" I don't know what I am talking about. The big dog will always be nipping at the small dogs heel.
catholic pray the rosary is original why? because is it the true church of Jesus crist