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I am so excited to get m6 copy! I pre-ordered it (for 5 dollars more, along with "in the language of adam") and I got a notification that it is out for delivery! Can't wait to get it!!
I’m almost to chapter 9. Overall the book is really good and interesting. Learned a lot. You said at one point you translated some of the apocrypha. I’d recommend you include the translator (if known) or when the translation was done if possible for all apocrypha listed in future editions. Thanks for putting this out. Passing it along to my dad after I finish.
Oh my gosh! Back in 2019 I was totally inactive but felt super compelled to read the Books of Enoch , Jasher, The Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs, and a few others. I had never read the Book of Mormon but the Lord knew I needed to go back to the beginning and the basics. It all made sense why these books were removed from the Bible and not considered cannon....along with the BOM they all testify of a very LIVING CHRIST who is our Messiah!! Needless to say, I ran back to HIS Gospel and learned just how real personal revelation is. It's available for everyone!! I love that this is becoming more mainstream and through sincere prayer and a desire to learn truth, He will reveal much more than what we learn from the pulpit. The "mysteries" are just personal revelation given line upon line and precept upon precept. HE IS THAT GOOD🙌🏼
@@REDRUMEDICIUS I’m surprised you haven’t heard about it. I’ve heard about it as a kid, and throughout my life. It used to be preached over the pulpit for many years. I know anti-“Mormons” are trying to stir up fear and controversy around this sacred ordinance and make it a sensational topic. You should go listen to John Dehlin as a guest on Cults of consciousness podcast. I was laughing so hard at the absurd statements he was “revealing”. No sane person hearing him would believe a word he was saying, but he did say in the thumbnail “shocking beliefs of the Mormon cult! As you nurture your relationship with Christ, the mysteries of His Kingdom will unfold before you. You will have eyes to see the things of the Spirit. He will fill your mind with light and knowledge line upon line. It’s a glorious journey, so much to experience. The anti world is a dark and empty one… but people go down that road, and many of them make lots of 💰💰 destroying hope, peace and faith. I know from experience what they are walking away from and walking towards its emptiness. 😢 But we each have our own adventures and path. Wish you the best as you seek after the good and beautiful! ❤️☀️
This is so timely for me. In just the last few weeks I was in a conversation with a Christian from another denomination about this exact topic, Apocryphal texts and their removal. He would not accept any evidences that I pointed out from the BoM nor would he recognize the times of their removal. He dismissed my evidence of Jesus and other precious truths being removed from the old testament. I sent this to him to listen to. He rejects it because it is done by Latter-day Saints, just like those of old who stoned and rejected the prophets for the reasons you make mention of here. Because he literally could not refute anything, he will pray for me that I change in the little time I have left that I might not spend eternity in hell. He tells me this because he loves me. Some people turn away and fear light. Truthfully, my spirit is grieved and I wish I could have expressed this in a way that he would have been open to listen and take it to the Lord in prayer before he decided.
There is time for everything. Your friend is walking his path. He is not ready to receive this knowledge. God is good and there will be time in this life or the other life. My middle brother and I are converts to the church. When I went to the temple for the first time about 24 years ago I was so sad knowing that my mother won't be able to experience the beauty and the spirit of the temple. She goes to the Baptist church and in some ways just tells me what their pastors are saying (different Jesus, we are going to hell, etc) But I know deep down that we are given what we can handle. We are also responsible for the knowledge we have. There is a lot of work in eternity and a lot to learn for us and for them. 🙏
There are all sorts of fingerprints of the BOM being a 19th cenuty production. Here's one of many: Consider Isaiah 53 as quoted Mosiah chapter 14, starting with verse 1. "Yea, even doth not Isaiah say: Who hath believed our report, and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?" The rest of the Isaiah 53 quote continues through verse 12. In the following chapter 15, Mosiah provides an exposition based on Isaiah 53. Now, the prophecy contained in Isaiah 53 is part of four so-called "Servant Songs" in this section of Isaiah. The Servant Song units are contained in Isaiah 42:1-9; Isaiah 49:1-13; Isaiah 50:4-11; and Isaiah 52:13-53:12. The textual grouping is obvious and unmistakable in Hebrew. Even in English it should be obvious if one bothers to take a close look. Here's the problem: The fourth Servant Song prophecy, of which Isaiah 53 is a part, actually starts at Isaiah 52:13 not Isaiah 53:1. There were no chapters and verses in the Hebrew scriptures in 600 BC, when the Nephites allegedly took the Hebrew scriptures to the New World. They were added to the Hebrew texts in 1448 by Rabbi Nathan. They were added to the English Bible in 1555 by Robert Estienne. Here's the rub: why did Mosiah start the quotation at Isaiah 53:1 when the Suffering Servant Song starts at 52:13? It makes no sense for "Nephi" to start copying mid-song circa 600BC. Ooops! The obvious explanation for this is whoever copied the text into the Book of Mormon was using an English Bible and was simply unaware that the song started at 52:13 and not at 53:1, which would be a natural thing to do if one was reading an English Bible and not examining the surrounding context closely.
@@KendraAndTheLaw Wonderful. Except the original publication of the Book of Mormon wasn’t divided that way - “chapter 14” came about in 1879 when Orson Pratt restructured the book and added chapters and verses. So, ironically the Book of Mormon ostensibly went through the same process as the Bible in this specific instance and orson pratt quite likely made the connection to Isaiah 53 and saw that he could match chapters with Mosiah 14 which only enhances the ability of readers to understand the scriptures. Not to mention the fact that Mosiah omitting 52:13-15 (and the preceding chapter altogether) actually demonstrates a genuine integration of scripture into the thoughts he is conveying given the context. Had Mosiah started with 52:13 it would interrupt the focus of his teachings which is on the nature of Christ in the flesh and suffering he would undergo as opposed to his exalting and gathering of nations which is what 52:13-15 states, but this is essentially moot because your premise isn’t true.
I was once asked by an Orthodox Jew,” Who was the first member of your church?” I had heard him ask this question to members of other faiths and knew where he was going with his question. My response was, “that would be Adam.” He looked at me with a blank look and could hardly respond. He finally said, “I have no comeback for that. I don’t have any idea what to say.” Jews are mystified when we say we belong to the same church that Adam, Abraham and Moses belonged to. We are the only church that understands the Old Testament Christ and His role prior to his birth.
@@pythonista466 The church is not the buildings. It never has been. The church builds structures, beginning with altars. If you happen to be referring to the organizational scaffolding, the Priesthood order began with Adam and he presided over it and still presides over the entire human family.
Ordered mine! Several months ago I realized the discrepancy between what was known in BOM vs OT about the Savior. I didn’t quite know what to make of it. My faith allowed me to shrug it off, but this is better. Thanks guys!
This is a fascinating topic. I've always considered it kind of odd just how direct the Book of Mormon is when talking about Christ when you compare it to the Old Testament. This all seems reasonable to me
The fact that Peter says, “Thou art the Christ the Son of The Living God,” shows the society at the time of Peter knew that there was to be a Christ. And not just the leaders but it was common knowledge enough that the fishermen knew.
I've been watching The Stick of Joseph for a while and you guys are really ramping it up! I am excited about the books coming out through Plain and Precious Publishing. Thank you so much for bringing these plain and precious truths to light! It has helped to boost my faith.
Say-un and Satan! 😂 Lol! can't stop laughing! It's not just Utah it's in Idaho too, and maybe just a western accent. So glad this silent T accent was finally addressed!!😂
Hey Jonah just ordered your book. I gave a Sacrament talk a little over a year ago on how Christ is missing from the OT, yet many examples of the Jews/Samaritans having a knowledge of him ie; The woman at the well, Herod, the old man and woman at the temple, etc. Does your book contain references from the Brethren talking about this as well from the apocrypha?
Christ is not missing from the old testiment, if you know what to look for. But many references to him, The Great Jehovah, what he did, and who He is ,have been removed by Jewish scribes, and hierarchy when thec12 twelve tribes fell into apostasy. Especially, after the northern tribes were exiled. The remaining tribe of Judah had to change the scriptures to justify their spiritual choices, and rejection of Jehovah, even before His advent. To stay Christ had a difficult time reteaching Judah, preaching them the gospel, and correcting them from a heretical, corrupted, bastardized, version of true religion, is very much an understatement.
Very exciting times. Just ordered my book yesterday! There is great info in the apocryphal books. I am only familiar with 2nd Esdras and Enoch and am excited to learn about more!
Modern historians of religion and just secular events begin with the assumption that miracles aren’t the cause of what’s happening. Their dating methods aren’t random or nefarious but with that presumption at the start, they are constrained by their accepted methodologies to date things late if they are prophetic.
I ordered mine yesterday-I’m so excited! Speaking of Moses, how do the academics interpret the brazen serpent? A very good book is “The Hidden Christ” by James Ferrell which points out all the ways that Christ did survive in the Old Testament after all.
It makes so much sense now that the adversary really tried to cancel the lost 116 manuscripts since it would contain Lehi's details of what happened during OT times and why the Messiah was cancelled.
actually the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, containing the Old Testament(s) Apocrypha is available in book form by James H Charlesworth and the New Testament Apocrypha by M R James...they are both available Online for free
I'd love to see a discussion with Jonah and @officialmichaelbrush not many plain and precious things are in the apocrypha unless you include the book of enoch
Thinking that Christ could not be preached before the meridian of time is merely denying the gift of prophecy. The scriptures, in particular the BofM, speaks often of those in the last days that will not believe that things can be known before their time. That’s all that this is here.
The problem is that textual criticism as a discipline does not allow for non-naturalistic influences. That means prophecy can’t explain something being discussed before they happen. There isn’t any tool in their discipline to account for it. That is understandable from a professional/scientific standpoint. When you talk about prophecy, you have to take off your scholar hat and put on your religion hat. It’s the quickest way to lose respect among your peers.
There is a much simpler retort to the complaint of the "Anachronistic" use of the name Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon before his birth; and that is because Mormon, who abridged the records, lived after Jesus Christ came and thus knew his name. As he was abridging the records, there are many instances of Mormon making narrative comments along the way within the books of other authors. It would not be unusual for him to put the name Jesus Christ whenever he saw discussion of the Messiah for he knew the Messiah's name.
Yeah I’m sure the most important thing to ever happen that was foretold was only known about when it happened. It’s not like the other works from Joseph smith like Moses and Abraham show the only begotten son was taught b about from the beginning. It’s not like we see the premortal Christ introduce himself as Jesus to the brother of Jared and presumably the others who he visited like Nephi. Proverbs 30:4 (KJV) says: "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" What is his name? What is his son’s name? Surely you know…because they did know the father and the son were taught about from the beginning. Adam was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
@gingersnaps215 The way I read it is that the gold plates delivered to Joseph Smith were all an abridement by Mormon (plus Moroni's additions). Mormon says he ". . .cannot write the hundredth part of the things of my people". (WoM v5) when referring to his inclusion of the small plates of Nephi at the end of his record. That sounds like he had to abridge this as well. WoM v2 makes my original point.
@LatterDayChad Peace. I agree with all you have said. That is my belief as well. I was only making the obvious point that a secularist critic cannot honestly argue against.
I could understand the whole bit of it being hard to accept talk of Christ now these days. When I was still a Teacher, my ward had a new convert, an older man, maybe in his 40's, and he is an amazing man. So spiritual and he knows where he is at with his faith. But when he first converted, he kept on talking that he had visions in dreams, telling him that he woukd be taught the true Gospel. Weeks later, he was taught by the missionaries. The youth at the time mocked him, saying that it wasn't possible to have such spiritual experiences. I didn't quite believe it either, but I was open to the idea. Now in recent years, I've sat down with this man and I had apologized to him for my attitude as a youth and I've told him the visions I've had regarding my growing family and of the Second Coming.
I hate to be that guy, but that quote from Acts 7 31:37 is Stephen, the first martyr. I'm not angry, but just disappointed that the three of you did not recognize it 😆
Jonas' discussion about the scroll of Levi describing how the Levites were going to kill the Messiah would not be a popular to write and preach. Did not Nephi have the same experience? He had a vision about how his descendants would rebel against God and would be killed in war and removed from the face of the earth. Is this not the same type of thing?
At least in this one Jonah didn’t go to Star Wars again, although he had said he would steal my idea for his next title ‘Star Wars and the Book of Mormon: Yoda vs Joseph Smith’. Should be epic. Ordered my copy of Keystone.
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:10-12
Bought Key to the Keystone but my post cataract surgery eyes have a heard time reading the print on non-white pages. Shucks. The book feels and smells so good. I will need to buy digital, yuck. Love the book so far though.
Correction to the idea that all Jews read the Old Testament (what they refer to as the Tanakh) - they don't. I used to also assume that Jews read Isaiah until I started watching the So Be It channel on UA-cam. Jews, especially Orthodox Jews, revere the Torah (5 books of Moses) and oral tradition over the Prophets. It is interesting listening to the interviews they do with orthodox Jewish men because it sounds so reminiscent of the Deutetonimists and the Pharisees. Even though Jewish boys all receive a Tanakh at their Bar Mitzvah, they don't read it. They are told that if they want to know what the prophets are teaching, they need to go to their Rabbi and have their Rabbi tell them because "the Prophets can be interpreted so many different ways". So when these Messianic Jews have Jews in Israel read Isaiah 53 out of their Hebrew Tanakh, many of them agree that it sounds like Jesus Christ. youtube.com/@sobeit32ad?si=TcCSaJv3DIe1n4sS
Also the high level of sacrifice required for those who stood as representatives of the Messiah...kings and high priests...it's in their self interest to crucify such a role model in order to avoid being that role model
Iran has some of the largest deposits of zinc in the Middle East. It’s also one of the most common elements on earth. I assume you’re hinting at the fact that bronze was more common than brass in ancient times? I believe that is due to the fact that it is much easier to melt tin and copper together to make bronze, while zinc first has to be refined (because it pretty much exclusively is found as an impure ore like zinc sulfide), and then has to be carefully combined with the copper because zinc vaporizes when it reaches copper’s melting point. But there’s evidence that intentional brass manufacturing took place in the Middle East as early as 3000 BC, despite these challenges. (See “Brass from the Past,” by Vanda Morton).
@@gingersnaps215 Yep, that's exactly what I'm hinting at. The paper you reference really doesn't help the case of the Brass Plates. The early "brass" objects were all fairly crude things like beads, figurines and small blades that were only kinda brass because the copper being used came from sources rich in zinc. Can you point me to anyone anywhere in the world in the 600BC timeframe that could make brass in a suitable quantity and quality to be formed into sheets and used to write ancient records on them and bind them into a portable format?
@sparker602 I’m aware the artifacts mentioned were all small things rather than metal plates suitable for writing, and I never tried to make the case that plates and large brass objects were prevalent and common at the time of Lehi or just prior. Your original statement was about the availability of zinc, which I addressed. I believe the working consensus among the scholastic and scientific community is that larger metal plates were not typical means of record keeping in ancient Judea, though we do have the copper scroll from Qumran and smaller metal strips that were used kind of as amulets, and metal plates from nearby cultures that definitely were used for record-keeping. You are welcome to let that anachronism hamper your belief in the restoration, but it’s not a deal breaker for me, as I see far too many other supports from antiquity to logically and reasonably support my spiritual testimony of the truth of it.
@@gingersnaps215 I'm sorry but that's just plain intellectually dishonest. The church has always claimed to be a factual restoration of a literal line of authority that is required for real eternal salvation. You knew exactly what I was talking about with zinc/brass being an issue and you now just retreat from that point as soon as you see your hand-waving towards some justification doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny. I call BS on your "other supports from antiquity" too. I've seen pretty much all the justifications coming from apologists and they are also very lacking. There's so much beauty and truth in the world that can unfortunately be nearly impossible to see when you're constantly trying to make sense of an 1800's grift.
Genesis 1 In the beginning!! Bereshit means beginning!! But take the Hebrew word bereshit shows that Jesus knew His end from the beginning! Hebrew letters have special meanings, and when you examine the meanings of the six letters in bereshit (beyt-resh-aleph-shin-yud-tav) they form a sentence: “The Son of God is destroyed by his own hand on the cross.” Isaiah said Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Lots of books left out of the BoM too. More than are in it. Likewise... it makes sense more than the 20 books mentioned are left out of the Bible as well. Probably more than are in it also. :>) 14:38 "born of a virgin" Yes.. first clearly mentioned in Isaiah 7 that the Holy Ghost of the Lord(Jesus Christ Himself) will be overshadowing Mary in the future. Luke 1:35 confirms it happened and Joseph Smith translates the same in Moses 5:9 that Jesus Christ is the Holy Ghost who taught and spoke to the prophets of old. :>) Is. 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Luke 1 35 The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God Moses 5 9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.
Mosiah 14 Book of Mormon Chapter 14 Isaiah speaks messianically-The Messiah’s humiliation and sufferings are set forth-He makes His soul an offering for sin and makes intercession for transgressors-Compare Isaiah 53. About 148 B.C.
Because there is not physical material to an idea.. you can date a thing an idea is written on but that doesn’t account for the fact that that idea could have existed hundreds or thousands of years earlier.
The New Testament account of Luke 24:13-35 tells of an event on the road to Emmaus. Two of Jesus's disciples were sorrowfully reviewing the recent Crucifixion of Jesus Christ when they were joined by another person. "And beginning at Moses and *all* the prophets, he expounded unto them *in all* the scriptures the things concerning himself." (Luke 24:27. Emphasis mine.) Jesus uses post-Deuteronomist scriptures to do this. As I see it, Messianic prophesies are there, but these followers didn't recognize them as such until they were pointed out by Jesus. There are Christian webpages with titles like "365 Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ." As v27 indicates, the OT prophecies start in Genesis and continue through the (canonical) end, Malachi. Of course, none explicitly names Jesus Christ. I've read a book by a Rabbi who charges Christians with hijacking the Old Testament, reading more into it than is there.
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. John chapter 4 vs 25 The implication couldn't be much stronger suggesting beyond doubt that the messiah who will be called Christ was very much common knowledge even before the days of Christ
Which would imply that messianic prophecies should be all over the OT, plain as day, and not shrouded in code like in Isaiah. Even today, Jews and others who believe the OT but don’t believe in Christ as Messiah say the verses we Christian’s point to as “clearly” speaking of Christ, are in fact NOT clearly pointing to Christ. Should make you wonder just what the Samaritan woman and others who recognized Christ as such knew and how.
@@robertbarriball9206 you have living prophets and apostles and you look to Ezra’s Eagle and Jonah Barnes for further truth and light? What about Ref Heffers, white buffalo and Chief Mitigah? Mormons are crazy!
@ericredd5590 The Red Heiffer is a type and shadow of Christ’s atonement in Gethsemane, which is apparent when you examine the where/how the ritual was carried out, and definitely the “why” of the sacrifice. There’s a nearly 20-yr old paper that goes into those details called “The Law of the Red Heifer: A Type and Shadow of Jesus Christ” for any interested in learning more. It was perhaps necessary that it be a female animal to symbolize the life-giving nature of the sacrifice (it was the sacrifice that allowed for the continuation of all other sacrifices, and the purpose of the sacrifice was to correct the effects of tumah/tum-a/טומאה, which is defined as a sort of moral depression caused by such things as contact with death (or surrendering to the travails of labor; there is a connection in the Hebrew of Leviticus 12 for those postpartum “sin” and purification requirements and the Red Heifer), according to 19th century Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch. Tumah/tum-a is anything that can cause a person to feel as though they are at the mercy of natural forces and merely a creature being acted upon, rather than a holy being capable of free will and acting of their own volition, as Rabbi Hirsch puts it. The act of making an offering or choosing to be sprinkled with the heifer’s ashes was a means for the affected person to choose to turn themselves back in alignment with God’s will and not merely remain at the mercy of natural forces. And we understand Christ to have suffered and experienced alllllllll the effects of mortality (aka tumah/tum-a) when He “drank the bitter cup” and bled from every pore in Gethsemane. You’re welcome for the explanation and exhortation for which you did not ask 😊
@ericredd5590 The Red Heiffer is a type and shadow of Christ’s atonement in Gethsemane, which is apparent when you examine the where/how the ritual was carried out, and definitely the “why” of the sacrifice. There’s a nearly 20-yr old paper that goes into those details called “The Law of the Red Heifer: A Type and Shadow of Jesus Christ” for any interested in learning more. It was perhaps necessary that it be a female animal to symbolize the life-giving nature of the sacrifice (it was the sacrifice that allowed for the continuation of all other sacrifices, and the purpose of the sacrifice was to correct the effects of tumah/tum-a/טומאה, which is defined as a sort of moral depression caused by such things as contact with death (or surrendering to the travails of labor; there is a connection in the Hebrew of Leviticus 12 for those postpartum “sin” and purification requirements and the Red Heifer), according to 19th century Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch. Tumah/tum-a is anything that can cause a person to feel as though they are at the mercy of natural forces and merely a creature being acted upon, rather than a holy being capable of free will and acting of their own volition, as Rabbi Hirsch puts it. The act of making an offering or choosing to be sprinkled with the heifer’s ashes was a means for the affected person to choose to turn themselves back in alignment with God’s will and not merely remain at the mercy of natural forces. And we understand Christ to have suffered and experienced alllllllll the effects of mortality (aka tumah/tum-a) when He “drank the bitter cup” and bled from every pore in Gethsemane. You’re welcome for the explanation and exhortation for which you did not ask 😊
@ericredd5590 The Red Heiffer is a type and shadow of Christ’s atonement in Gethsemane, which is apparent when you examine the where/how the ritual was carried out, and definitely the “why” of the sacrifice. There’s a nearly 20-yr old paper that goes into those details called “The Law of the Red Heifer: A Type and Shadow of Jesus Christ” for any interested in learning more. It was perhaps necessary that it be a female animal to symbolize the life-giving nature of the sacrifice (it was the sacrifice that allowed for the continuation of all other sacrifices, and the purpose of the sacrifice was to correct the effects of tumah/tum-a/טומאה, which is defined as a sort of moral depression caused by such things as contact with death (or surrendering to the travails of labor; there is a connection in the Hebrew of Leviticus 12 for those postpartum “sin” and purification requirements and the Red Heifer), according to 19th century Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch. Tumah/tum-a is anything that can cause a person to feel as though they are at the mercy of natural forces and merely a creature being acted upon, rather than a holy being capable of free will and acting of their own volition, as Rabbi Hirsch puts it. The act of making an offering or choosing to be sprinkled with the heifer’s ashes was a means for the affected person to choose to turn themselves back in alignment with God’s will and not merely remain at the mercy of natural forces. And we understand Christ to have suffered and experienced alllllllll the effects of mortality (aka tumah/tum-a) when He “drank the bitter cup” and bled from every pore in Gethsemane. You’re welcome for the explanation and exhortation for which you did not ask 😊
@ericredd5590 The Red Heiffer is a type and shadow of Christ’s atonement in Gethsemane, which is apparent when you examine the where/how the ritual was carried out, and definitely the “why” of the sacrifice. There’s a nearly 20-yr old paper that goes into those details called “The Law of the Red Heifer: A Type and Shadow of Jesus Christ” for any interested in learning more. It was perhaps necessary that it be a female animal to symbolize the life-giving nature of the sacrifice (it was the sacrifice that allowed for the continuation of all other sacrifices, and the purpose of the sacrifice was to correct the effects of tumah/tum-a/טומאה, which is defined as a sort of moral depression caused by such things as contact with death (or surrendering to the travails of labor; there is a connection in the Hebrew of Leviticus 12 for those postpartum “sin” and purification requirements and the Red Heifer), according to 19th century Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch. Tumah/tum-a is anything that can cause a person to feel as though they are at the mercy of natural forces and merely a creature being acted upon, rather than a holy being capable of free will and acting of their own volition, as Rabbi Hirsch puts it. The act of making an offering or choosing to be sprinkled with the heifer’s ashes was a means for the affected person to choose to turn themselves back in alignment with God’s will and not merely remain at the mercy of natural forces. And we understand Christ to have suffered and experienced alllllllll the effects of mortality (aka tumah/tum-a) when He “drank the bitter cup” and bled from every pore in Gethsemane. You’re welcome for the explanation and exhortation for which you did not ask 😊
Key to the Keystone... another entry in the long, proud tradition of falling for pseudepigrapha. For centuries, fools have been taken in by random texts slapped with "ancient" labels, but Jonah Barnes? He’s diving in headfirst. His grand theory? That The Book of Mormon somehow unlocks lost truths found in apocryphal texts that, inconveniently, were written long after the events they supposedly clarify. But no need to worry about that historical mismatch-just mix in a dash of magical thinking, and voilà! We’re suddenly reconstructing ancient brass plates from thin air. Barnes may have fallen for pseudepigrapha, but hey, at least he’s in good company-there’s no shortage of people eager to believe that "lost" texts hold the key to, well, anything.
Hey Jonah if you can’t see Jesus in the Old Testament you might want to start over. With everything. Isaiah 7:14 - “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.” Isaiah 9:6-7 - “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Micah 5:2 - “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times. Jeremiah 23:5-6 - “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.” Zechariah 9:9 - “Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion! Shout, Daughter Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and victorious, lowly and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.” Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 - These chapters are often called “the Suffering Servant” passages and are seen as detailed descriptions of the suffering and rejection that Jesus experienced during his crucifixion.
The point is that Jews read those verses and they are ambiguous enough that they can provide alternative interpretations. You can’t do that with the Book of Mormon or these other apocryphal texts.
@@thestickofjoseph Jonah also thinks that the Bible doesn’t teach that there is a Hell either. Jonah is wrong. Jonah wants to sell his book that teaches false doctrines. You guys are helping him to push people further from Christ and the true gospel.
@@thestickofjoseph You are correct I’ve never read it and I never will. To read a book about the apocrypha would be insanity. I don’t read false doctrine anymore and that’s why I stopped reading the Book of Mormon as well. Why don’t the LDS prophets teach from the Apocrypha during General Conference? Do you speak about the Apocrypha when you give a talk during sacrament meeting? No you don’t because it is not authorized. It is not biblical. It is not part of the LDS cannon. Why is that?
@Eagle_Powers Actually, When Pres Nelson was Elder Nelson, he gave a talk where he quoted the Discourse of Abbaton, or whatever the title is, but clarified it wasn’t scripture. The First Counselor in the Bishopric of my ward gave a sacrament talk last year where he also read a bit from an apocryphal source, dealing with premortality, but again, clarified it wasn’t scripture, and I have also given a talk where I mentioned an aspect of “hesed” found in apocryphal works about Adam and Eve, supported by recent prophetic statements about hesed and covenants. So. Even though it is “not authorized”/official scripture, that doesn’t mean it’s completely ignored, overlooked, or outright dismissed. Yes, I realize I only have three examples, which is a pitiful sample size and completely anecdotal, but thisnn Mmk is not something I have tried to research extensively. I’m sure more references to apocryphal works could be found in conference talks if I did some actual research. The same can probably said for sacrament talks church-wide, but that would be much harder to learn.
I have a question if the devil never fell what would life be like who would be the enemy to God like if Juda never betrayed Christ how would he have died I think these things sometimes like is this the set standard or are we the odd one out.
I think if the devil never fell we’d have the natural man to contend with (natural man is the enemy of God, and all that). The Plan did not rely on an accuser (literally what “Satan” means in Hebrew) to fall. Were that the case, that would basically mean that at least one being would need to be “ordained” to be the master sinner, which does not mesh with the nature of God… Human nature is enough of an impetus by itself to cause us to sin/choose to defy God’s laws whether knowingly or not (I.e. natural instincts push a creature to choose its own survival and needs over those/at the expense of its fellows). Having an accuser and other fallen angels to tempt us just means there’s that much more pressure on us to give in to nature over God’s laws.
I’ve heard Jared Halverson say in some episodes of Unshaken that our world is both the best and the worst: the best because this is where God came down and lived among us, and the worst because we killed our God. And I dunno, nature is pretty brutal. I’m sure having less temptation pressuring you to choose mundane nature over divine makes life less harsh, but like chimps engage in warfare and cannibalism, and they’re (presumably…?!) not tempted by devils.. On the other hand I also saw an elephant documentary featuring a reserve for orphaned elephants, and one of the elephants had a damaged, super short trunk because of a poacher’s trap, and it couldn’t reach or grab the good, leafy branches. Its fellow elephant saw it struggle and pulled down a branch for it ❤️ The Light of Christ is also within all of creation, so there’s that 😊
@@gingersnaps215 But then I ask why this plan if we in a cycle is death a necessity or an option by death I mean a savior. I know we chose this plan but I'm guessing we saw our predecessors hell possibly Gods path and somehow we chose like the craziest and darkest like why unless death is a necessity and then I got to ask why regardless of the plan someones got to die that is really morbid.
This is where I think there are certain laws that just ARE and can’t be changed, like entropy. Death and decay are facets of entropy. To combat entropy, we have life and movement (and I would say ordinances and covenants to help build that net or bond between lives to further combat entropy, by binding as many lives as possible together). I dunno, if you haven’t already, you might go check out the Ancient Tradition podcast (some episodes on UA-cam, but way more elsewhere). I sometimes question if the host actually has a PhD and everything else she claims (fairly certain Jacquelyn “Jack” Logan is a pseudonym for whatever reason; she is basically a ghost on the internet), but she seems well-read and makes many interesting points and connections. And there are a lot of scholarly resources linked on the website for the podcast, so you can see where she gets some of her ideas.
Sad. I stopped listening to most youtube podcasts. Most have now elected to become worldly and have chosen money over message. I'm not interested in seeing anti-mormon or leftist political ads. Plus I used to listen while working out and no time to keep hitting the skip ad button. Satan always ruins everything good.
23:13 The Nemenhah record is exactly this. It prophesied that the restored Church would fall under condemnation after the first generation and would remain so until a few from the sixth generation would repent and begin to build Zion (Rough paraphrase). This is a very hard message for the Church to accept, so this Lehite apocrypha sits unread in the Church history archive. The Church has had it for a decade and done nothing with it. Midegah came out last month testifying that it is true (on September 22! That HAS to be a coincidence.) Who hath believed our report?
Buy The Key to the Keystone Here: plainandpreciouspublishing.com/products/preorder-the-key-to-the-keystone-how-apocryphal-texts-unlock-the-book-of-mormons-brass-plates
Just sent my wife the link…my birthday is coming up!
I am so excited to get m6 copy! I pre-ordered it (for 5 dollars more, along with "in the language of adam") and I got a notification that it is out for delivery! Can't wait to get it!!
I’m almost to chapter 9. Overall the book is really good and interesting. Learned a lot. You said at one point you translated some of the apocrypha. I’d recommend you include the translator (if known) or when the translation was done if possible for all apocrypha listed in future editions. Thanks for putting this out. Passing it along to my dad after I finish.
Please put on Amazon for the audiobook plz
I want to hear about them talk about the 2ND ANOINTING. As a member finding out about such a thing. Not many members know of it.
Oh my gosh! Back in 2019 I was totally inactive but felt super compelled to read the Books of Enoch , Jasher, The Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs, and a few others. I had never read the Book of Mormon but the Lord knew I needed to go back to the beginning and the basics. It all made sense why these books were removed from the Bible and not considered cannon....along with the BOM they all testify of a very LIVING CHRIST who is our Messiah!! Needless to say, I ran back to HIS Gospel and learned just how real personal revelation is. It's available for everyone!! I love that this is becoming more mainstream and through sincere prayer and a desire to learn truth, He will reveal much more than what we learn from the pulpit. The "mysteries" are just personal revelation given line upon line and precept upon precept. HE IS THAT GOOD🙌🏼
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Wow! What a testimony! I'm so happy for you! These books have strengthened my faith also! They make everything make totally sense!
What were those "few other" books? I want to read all the books talked about both by the video and you.
I want to hear about them talk about the 2ND ANOINTING. As a member finding out about such a thing. Not many members know of it.
@@REDRUMEDICIUS
I’m surprised you haven’t heard about it. I’ve heard about it as a kid, and throughout my life.
It used to be preached over the pulpit for many years.
I know anti-“Mormons” are trying to stir up fear and controversy around this sacred ordinance and make it a sensational topic.
You should go listen to John Dehlin as a guest on Cults of consciousness podcast.
I was laughing so hard at the absurd statements he was “revealing”. No sane person hearing him would believe a word he was saying, but he did say in the thumbnail “shocking beliefs of the Mormon cult!
As you nurture your relationship with Christ, the mysteries of His Kingdom will unfold before you. You will have eyes to see the things of the Spirit. He will fill your mind with light and knowledge line upon line.
It’s a glorious journey, so much to experience.
The anti world is a dark and empty one… but people go down that road, and many of them make lots of 💰💰 destroying hope, peace and faith. I know from experience what they are walking away from and walking towards its emptiness. 😢
But we each have our own adventures and path. Wish you the best as you seek after the good and beautiful! ❤️☀️
This is so timely for me. In just the last few weeks I was in a conversation with a Christian from another denomination about this exact topic, Apocryphal texts and their removal. He would not accept any evidences that I pointed out from the BoM nor would he recognize the times of their removal. He dismissed my evidence of Jesus and other precious truths being removed from the old testament. I sent this to him to listen to. He rejects it because it is done by Latter-day Saints, just like those of old who stoned and rejected the prophets for the reasons you make mention of here. Because he literally could not refute anything, he will pray for me that I change in the little time I have left that I might not spend eternity in hell. He tells me this because he loves me. Some people turn away and fear light. Truthfully, my spirit is grieved and I wish I could have expressed this in a way that he would have been open to listen and take it to the Lord in prayer before he decided.
There is time for everything. Your friend is walking his path. He is not ready to receive this knowledge. God is good and there will be time in this life or the other life.
My middle brother and I are converts to the church. When I went to the temple for the first time about 24 years ago I was so sad knowing that my mother won't be able to experience the beauty and the spirit of the temple. She goes to the Baptist church and in some ways just tells me what their pastors are saying (different Jesus, we are going to hell, etc)
But I know deep down that we are given what we can handle. We are also responsible for the knowledge we have.
There is a lot of work in eternity and a lot to learn for us and for them. 🙏
@@nataly140 🌟
There are all sorts of fingerprints of the BOM being a 19th cenuty production. Here's one of many:
Consider Isaiah 53 as quoted Mosiah chapter 14, starting with verse 1. "Yea, even doth not Isaiah say: Who hath believed our report, and to whom is the arm of the Lord
revealed?" The rest of the Isaiah 53 quote continues through verse 12. In the following chapter 15, Mosiah provides an exposition based on Isaiah 53.
Now, the prophecy contained in Isaiah 53 is part of four so-called "Servant Songs" in this section of Isaiah. The Servant Song units are
contained in Isaiah 42:1-9; Isaiah 49:1-13; Isaiah 50:4-11; and Isaiah 52:13-53:12. The textual grouping is obvious and unmistakable in Hebrew. Even
in English it should be obvious if one bothers to take a close look.
Here's the problem: The fourth Servant Song prophecy, of which Isaiah 53 is a part, actually starts at Isaiah 52:13 not Isaiah 53:1. There were no chapters
and verses in the Hebrew scriptures in 600 BC, when the Nephites allegedly took the Hebrew scriptures to the New World. They were added to the Hebrew texts in
1448 by Rabbi Nathan. They were added to the English Bible in 1555 by Robert Estienne.
Here's the rub: why did Mosiah start the quotation at Isaiah 53:1 when the Suffering Servant Song starts at 52:13? It makes no sense for "Nephi" to start copying mid-song circa 600BC. Ooops! The obvious explanation for this is whoever copied the text into the Book of Mormon was using an English Bible and was simply unaware that the song started at 52:13 and not at 53:1, which would be a natural thing to do if one was reading an English Bible and not examining the surrounding context closely.
Maybe he fears light but if he otherwise seems like a person who loves God, he most likely fears offending God as he understands God.
@@KendraAndTheLaw
Wonderful. Except the original publication of the Book of Mormon wasn’t divided that way - “chapter 14” came about in 1879 when Orson Pratt restructured the book and added chapters and verses. So, ironically the Book of Mormon ostensibly went through the same process as the Bible in this specific instance and orson pratt quite likely made the connection to Isaiah 53 and saw that he could match chapters with Mosiah 14 which only enhances the ability of readers to understand the scriptures. Not to mention the fact that Mosiah omitting 52:13-15 (and the preceding chapter altogether) actually demonstrates a genuine integration of scripture into the thoughts he is conveying given the context. Had Mosiah started with 52:13 it would interrupt the focus of his teachings which is on the nature of Christ in the flesh and suffering he would undergo as opposed to his exalting and gathering of nations which is what 52:13-15 states, but this is essentially moot because your premise isn’t true.
I was once asked by an Orthodox Jew,” Who was the first member of your church?” I had heard him ask this question to members of other faiths and knew where he was going with his question. My response was, “that would be Adam.” He looked at me with a blank look and could hardly respond. He finally said, “I have no comeback for that. I don’t have any idea what to say.” Jews are mystified when we say we belong to the same church that Adam, Abraham and Moses belonged to. We are the only church that understands the Old Testament Christ and His role prior to his birth.
There was no church in Adam's day. The gospel was lived and taught in families. They needed no scaffolding.
@@pythonista466 you are correct. I should have said the “Big C,” the gospel of Christ. I certainly didn’t mean the structure of today, the “Little c.”
@@pythonista466
The church is not the buildings. It never has been. The church builds structures, beginning with altars.
If you happen to be referring to the organizational scaffolding, the Priesthood order began with Adam and he presided over it and still presides over the entire human family.
I just bought my first hardcover copy of in the language of Adam and key to the keystone. Super stoked to to read them.
Make sure you also review the reformed Egyptian characters that JS prepared that all have English character bases
Ordered mine! Several months ago I realized the discrepancy between what was known in BOM vs OT about the Savior. I didn’t quite know what to make of it. My faith allowed me to shrug it off, but this is better. Thanks guys!
I hope you continue this conversation because I want to hear more of this discussion. This was awesome.
6 hours of bonus content included with the book!
Buy the book! I'm so excited. Mine is out for delivery as we speak. Sqeeeee
I received mine yesterday! It looks and feels so good!
The testimony of Jesus Christ IS the spirit of prophecy.
Yep! Revelation 19:10
The timing of this, right before general conference, is phenomenal! Can’t wait for the prophets and apostles to talk it up!
Um... prepare to be disappointed. I promise you won't hear a word about this at GC.
I’m so excited for their messages, too!
This is a fascinating topic. I've always considered it kind of odd just how direct the Book of Mormon is when talking about Christ when you compare it to the Old Testament.
This all seems reasonable to me
The fact that Peter says, “Thou art the Christ the Son of The Living God,” shows the society at the time of Peter knew that there was to be a Christ. And not just the leaders but it was common knowledge enough that the fishermen knew.
I've been watching The Stick of Joseph for a while and you guys are really ramping it up! I am excited about the books coming out through Plain and Precious Publishing. Thank you so much for bringing these plain and precious truths to light! It has helped to boost my faith.
I'd love to add this to my Audible library!
Say-un and Satan! 😂 Lol! can't stop laughing! It's not just Utah it's in Idaho too, and maybe just a western accent. So glad this silent T accent was finally addressed!!😂
It’s called a glottal stop.
@@spencerclark399what did you call me
Jonah is a savage! Awesome!
Ordered my copy and can't wait! I'm so excited to get into this one.
Can't wait! Just got a notification mine will be here on the 8th!📦
Thanks for publishing! Exciting! ❤
I am so excited for this. I bought the book hardcopy. Woo hoo.
Loving the book and bonus content!
That was really good. I love it when I learn new things.
Oh yah! I am going to get this book! Also, thanks for doing an audio version. I will listen while I commute.
I just finished the book. I need a sequel!
OMG! My chronic fatigue thanks you for the audiobook ❤. Bonus!
Hey Jonah just ordered your book. I gave a Sacrament talk a little over a year ago on how Christ is missing from the OT, yet many examples of the Jews/Samaritans having a knowledge of him ie; The woman at the well, Herod, the old man and woman at the temple, etc. Does your book contain references from the Brethren talking about this as well from the apocrypha?
Christ is not missing from the old testiment, if you know what to look for. But many references to him, The Great Jehovah, what he did, and who He is ,have been removed by Jewish scribes, and hierarchy when thec12 twelve tribes fell into apostasy. Especially, after the northern tribes were exiled. The remaining tribe of Judah had to change the scriptures to justify their spiritual choices, and rejection of Jehovah, even before His advent. To stay Christ had a difficult time reteaching Judah, preaching them the gospel, and correcting them from a heretical, corrupted, bastardized, version of true religion, is very much an understatement.
2:24 “I have a hard time reading words…” 😂 I feel that
Very exciting times. Just ordered my book yesterday! There is great info in the apocryphal books. I am only familiar with 2nd Esdras and Enoch and am excited to learn about more!
Ordered the book. Reading Nibleys commentary on the book of Enoch now. Fascinating stuff.
Yeah, just ordered the book! Can't wait to read it!
I really loved this video. It is a deluxe one. Impresive
Loved this episode and I'm excited for the book!
Well done guys.
Great work, Jonah! 💯🔥🔥🔥🔥
Modern historians of religion and just secular events begin with the assumption that miracles aren’t the cause of what’s happening. Their dating methods aren’t random or nefarious but with that presumption at the start, they are constrained by their accepted methodologies to date things late if they are prophetic.
I bought two - one for me and one for a friend! Can't wait to read along with In The Language of Adam!
I'm pretty sure I know your pastor friend, I follow his channel too. He is a nice guy and always says hello to us saints.
I ordered mine yesterday-I’m so excited! Speaking of Moses, how do the academics interpret the brazen serpent? A very good book is “The Hidden Christ” by James Ferrell which points out all the ways that Christ did survive in the Old Testament after all.
It makes so much sense now that the adversary really tried to cancel the lost 116 manuscripts since it would contain Lehi's details of what happened during OT times and why the Messiah was cancelled.
Has anyone compiled the apocryphal texts together in a book format we can get and read cover to cover?
not in book format, but scripture notes has them all if you get a monthly subscription.
actually the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, containing the Old Testament(s) Apocrypha is available in book form by James H Charlesworth and the New Testament Apocrypha by M R James...they are both available Online for free
Just got this in the mail so psyched
I'd love to see a discussion with Jonah and @officialmichaelbrush not many plain and precious things are in the apocrypha unless you include the book of enoch
Thinking that Christ could not be preached before the meridian of time is merely denying the gift of prophecy. The scriptures, in particular the BofM, speaks often of those in the last days that will not believe that things can be known before their time. That’s all that this is here.
Got it in the mail this week. Gonna read it on my flight to The Netherlands. Super curious what Jonah comes up with in this book.
More please.
That verse in Acts was Steven, one of the Seventy, just before being stoned by the Jews.
This is like “Ancient Apocalypse” meets Mormonism
Excited to read it! Will it be up for sale on Amazon or audible anytime soon? Really want to buy it, but the shipping to Canada is brutal
By the end of the month. Send an email to Hayden@thestickofjoseph.com and we will put you on the list to get notified
@@thestickofjoseph Awesome, thanks guys!
The problem is that textual criticism as a discipline does not allow for non-naturalistic influences. That means prophecy can’t explain something being discussed before they happen. There isn’t any tool in their discipline to account for it. That is understandable from a professional/scientific standpoint. When you talk about prophecy, you have to take off your scholar hat and put on your religion hat. It’s the quickest way to lose respect among your peers.
Sounds like plain and precious truths were removed by the wicked. Where have I heard that?...
Please publish a Spanish edition. The topic is very interesting.
What version of apocrypha book do you use? There's so many versions. Please send the link to the one you read so i can get one
There is Old and New Testament Apocrypha and Old and New Testament Pseudepigrapha
Jonah lists all of the Apocrypha books he referenced in his book.
Christ was the plan from the beginning.
Yes
☀️
When will it be available on Amazon so that those not in the US can purchase it?
Will the book be available in a digital format as an ebook?
There is a much simpler retort to the complaint of the "Anachronistic" use of the name Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon before his birth; and that is because Mormon, who abridged the records, lived after Jesus Christ came and thus knew his name. As he was abridging the records, there are many instances of Mormon making narrative comments along the way within the books of other authors. It would not be unusual for him to put the name Jesus Christ whenever he saw discussion of the Messiah for he knew the Messiah's name.
Yeah I’m sure the most important thing to ever happen that was foretold was only known about when it happened. It’s not like the other works from Joseph smith like Moses and Abraham show the only begotten son was taught b about from the beginning. It’s not like we see the premortal Christ introduce himself as Jesus to the brother of Jared and presumably the others who he visited like Nephi.
Proverbs 30:4 (KJV) says:
"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?"
What is his name? What is his son’s name? Surely you know…because they did know the father and the son were taught about from the beginning. Adam was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
Except that Mormon didn’t edit the record of Nephi that we have. Mormon edited Lehi’s record of the same time period, which was lost 🙃
@gingersnaps215 The way I read it is that the gold plates delivered to Joseph Smith were all an abridement by Mormon (plus Moroni's additions). Mormon says he ". . .cannot write the hundredth part of the things of my people". (WoM v5) when referring to his inclusion of the small plates of Nephi at the end of his record. That sounds like he had to abridge this as well. WoM v2 makes my original point.
@LatterDayChad Peace. I agree with all you have said. That is my belief as well. I was only making the obvious point that a secularist critic cannot honestly argue against.
The whole point of the Book of Mormon is too Testify to the Jews and the gentiles that Jesus Christ was always known and taught about.
Interesting that JS would try and fail to sell the copyright
Forgot to mention John 8:56!
“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.”
Just a kind observation Hayden. In your grey sweatshirt, with that particular hair style, you remind me of one of those sweet monks of old.
Hayden talks too much to be a monk.
@@My_planet_has_rings.😂
Could we get a kindle version too? Pretty please.
Can you put the charts and we codes in the accompanying pdf on audible please? 🙏 also for in the language of Adam?
The Adam book is already in audible. If you buy the key book it comes with a link to the audio book.
I just looked at the link to purchase and it says it’s sold out. Is that true?!? I am interested in getting it.
🔥🔥🔥
I could understand the whole bit of it being hard to accept talk of Christ now these days.
When I was still a Teacher, my ward had a new convert, an older man, maybe in his 40's, and he is an amazing man. So spiritual and he knows where he is at with his faith. But when he first converted, he kept on talking that he had visions in dreams, telling him that he woukd be taught the true Gospel. Weeks later, he was taught by the missionaries.
The youth at the time mocked him, saying that it wasn't possible to have such spiritual experiences. I didn't quite believe it either, but I was open to the idea. Now in recent years, I've sat down with this man and I had apologized to him for my attitude as a youth and I've told him the visions I've had regarding my growing family and of the Second Coming.
Wait a minute. There are Old Testament messianic prophecies. They are not clear like in the Book of Mormon, but they are there.
The fact that they aren’t clear is why the Deuteronomists didn’t remove them 🙃 who are the prophets Jesus and Lehi spoke of Jerusalem stoning?
Could you give us a list of the apocryphal books we should read.
They are all listed in Jonah's book.
I hate to be that guy, but that quote from Acts 7 31:37 is Stephen, the first martyr. I'm not angry, but just disappointed that the three of you did not recognize it 😆
Jonas' discussion about the scroll of Levi describing how the Levites were going to kill the Messiah would not be a popular to write and preach. Did not Nephi have the same experience? He had a vision about how his descendants would rebel against God and would be killed in war and removed from the face of the earth. Is this not the same type of thing?
wanna buy it from Mexico, will it be on amazon?
Jonah !!!!
Just read a Catholic bible and you'll find some very interesting apocryphal books, like the books of Tobiah and or Judith, etc.
At least in this one Jonah didn’t go to Star Wars again, although he had said he would steal my idea for his next title ‘Star Wars and the Book of Mormon: Yoda vs Joseph Smith’. Should be epic. Ordered my copy of Keystone.
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:10-12
Big brain time
Would someone ask Jonah if he thinks the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon is actually the brass plates?
Bought Key to the Keystone but my post cataract surgery eyes have a heard time reading the print on non-white pages. Shucks. The book feels and smells so good. I will need to buy digital, yuck. Love the book so far though.
Read 1 Enoch and you will find out many things about the first and second coming.
Can someone please show me in Naphtali where it uses messianic lingo
Correction to the idea that all Jews read the Old Testament (what they refer to as the Tanakh) - they don't. I used to also assume that Jews read Isaiah until I started watching the So Be It channel on UA-cam. Jews, especially Orthodox Jews, revere the Torah (5 books of Moses) and oral tradition over the Prophets. It is interesting listening to the interviews they do with orthodox Jewish men because it sounds so reminiscent of the Deutetonimists and the Pharisees.
Even though Jewish boys all receive a Tanakh at their Bar Mitzvah, they don't read it. They are told that if they want to know what the prophets are teaching, they need to go to their Rabbi and have their Rabbi tell them because "the Prophets can be interpreted so many different ways". So when these Messianic Jews have Jews in Israel read Isaiah 53 out of their Hebrew Tanakh, many of them agree that it sounds like Jesus Christ.
youtube.com/@sobeit32ad?si=TcCSaJv3DIe1n4sS
Also the high level of sacrifice required for those who stood as representatives of the Messiah...kings and high priests...it's in their self interest to crucify such a role model in order to avoid being that role model
how big would the brass plates have to be, in order to contain all the stuff that it is believed to contain?
and where did they get zinc?
Iran has some of the largest deposits of zinc in the Middle East. It’s also one of the most common elements on earth.
I assume you’re hinting at the fact that bronze was more common than brass in ancient times? I believe that is due to the fact that it is much easier to melt tin and copper together to make bronze, while zinc first has to be refined (because it pretty much exclusively is found as an impure ore like zinc sulfide), and then has to be carefully combined with the copper because zinc vaporizes when it reaches copper’s melting point. But there’s evidence that intentional brass manufacturing took place in the Middle East as early as 3000 BC, despite these challenges. (See “Brass from the Past,” by Vanda Morton).
@@gingersnaps215 Yep, that's exactly what I'm hinting at. The paper you reference really doesn't help the case of the Brass Plates. The early "brass" objects were all fairly crude things like beads, figurines and small blades that were only kinda brass because the copper being used came from sources rich in zinc. Can you point me to anyone anywhere in the world in the 600BC timeframe that could make brass in a suitable quantity and quality to be formed into sheets and used to write ancient records on them and bind them into a portable format?
@sparker602 I’m aware the artifacts mentioned were all small things rather than metal plates suitable for writing, and I never tried to make the case that plates and large brass objects were prevalent and common at the time of Lehi or just prior.
Your original statement was about the availability of zinc, which I addressed. I believe the working consensus among the scholastic and scientific community is that larger metal plates were not typical means of record keeping in ancient Judea, though we do have the copper scroll from Qumran and smaller metal strips that were used kind of as amulets, and metal plates from nearby cultures that definitely were used for record-keeping.
You are welcome to let that anachronism hamper your belief in the restoration, but it’s not a deal breaker for me, as I see far too many other supports from antiquity to logically and reasonably support my spiritual testimony of the truth of it.
@@gingersnaps215 I'm sorry but that's just plain intellectually dishonest. The church has always claimed to be a factual restoration of a literal line of authority that is required for real eternal salvation. You knew exactly what I was talking about with zinc/brass being an issue and you now just retreat from that point as soon as you see your hand-waving towards some justification doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny. I call BS on your "other supports from antiquity" too. I've seen pretty much all the justifications coming from apologists and they are also very lacking. There's so much beauty and truth in the world that can unfortunately be nearly impossible to see when you're constantly trying to make sense of an 1800's grift.
C'mon please, send the book to Brazil!!! Please! 😬
Genesis 1 In the beginning!! Bereshit means beginning!! But take the Hebrew word bereshit shows that Jesus knew His end from the beginning!
Hebrew letters have special meanings, and when you examine the meanings of the six letters in bereshit (beyt-resh-aleph-shin-yud-tav) they form a sentence: “The Son of God is destroyed by his own hand on the cross.”
Isaiah said
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Helaman Chapter 18:13-23 speaks on what you talked about! That Christ was prophesied to be the redeemer by all prophets unto the end of times.
i bought it 2 weeks ago and and i still havent recieved it.
Orders are getting shipped this week. It was up for pre-sale for a month while it was getting printed.
I want to hear about them talk about the 2ND ANOINTING. As a member finding out about such a thing. Not many members know of it.
2nd view
Lots of books left out of the BoM too. More than are in it. Likewise... it makes sense more than the 20 books mentioned are left out of the Bible as well. Probably more than are in it also. :>)
14:38 "born of a virgin" Yes.. first clearly mentioned in Isaiah 7 that the Holy Ghost of the Lord(Jesus Christ Himself) will be overshadowing Mary in the future. Luke 1:35 confirms it happened and Joseph Smith translates the same in Moses 5:9 that Jesus Christ is the Holy Ghost who taught and spoke to the prophets of old. :>)
Is. 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Luke 1 35 The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God
Moses 5 9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.
Mosiah 14
Book of Mormon
Chapter 14 Isaiah speaks messianically-The Messiah’s humiliation and sufferings are set forth-He makes His soul an offering for sin and makes intercession for transgressors-Compare Isaiah 53. About 148 B.C.
Why can’t we date ideas?
Because there is not physical material to an idea.. you can date a thing an idea is written on but that doesn’t account for the fact that that idea could have existed hundreds or thousands of years earlier.
Ideas don’t let you get to 1st base.
@@thestickofjoseph how do we date plagiarism
If you are looking for a date... call Maxine Waters or 1 800 anti trolls need lov'in too😆
@@thestickofjoseph Idk, but you can certainly get married to ideas.
The New Testament account of Luke 24:13-35 tells of an event on the road to Emmaus. Two of Jesus's disciples were sorrowfully reviewing the recent Crucifixion of Jesus Christ when they were joined by another person.
"And beginning at Moses and *all* the prophets, he expounded unto them *in all* the scriptures the things concerning himself." (Luke 24:27. Emphasis mine.)
Jesus uses post-Deuteronomist scriptures to do this. As I see it, Messianic prophesies are there, but these followers didn't recognize them as such until they were pointed out by Jesus.
There are Christian webpages with titles like "365 Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ." As v27 indicates, the OT prophecies start in Genesis and continue through the (canonical) end, Malachi. Of course, none explicitly names Jesus Christ. I've read a book by a Rabbi who charges Christians with hijacking the Old Testament, reading more into it than is there.
Guys . Again, i can't send any mail to You. How can I reach ? I have something You might be interested. Greetings from Chile.
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
John chapter 4 vs 25
The implication couldn't be much stronger suggesting beyond doubt that the messiah who will be called Christ was very much common knowledge even before the days of Christ
Which would imply that messianic prophecies should be all over the OT, plain as day, and not shrouded in code like in Isaiah. Even today, Jews and others who believe the OT but don’t believe in Christ as Messiah say the verses we Christian’s point to as “clearly” speaking of Christ, are in fact NOT clearly pointing to Christ. Should make you wonder just what the Samaritan woman and others who recognized Christ as such knew and how.
Can johan Barnes explain Esdras eagle?
@@robertbarriball9206 you have living prophets and apostles and you look to Ezra’s Eagle and Jonah Barnes for further truth and light?
What about Ref Heffers, white buffalo and Chief Mitigah?
Mormons are crazy!
@ericredd5590 The Red Heiffer is a type and shadow of Christ’s atonement in Gethsemane, which is apparent when you examine the where/how the ritual was carried out, and definitely the “why” of the sacrifice. There’s a nearly 20-yr old paper that goes into those details called “The Law of the Red Heifer: A Type and Shadow of Jesus Christ” for any interested in learning more.
It was perhaps necessary that it be a female animal to symbolize the life-giving nature of the sacrifice (it was the sacrifice that allowed for the continuation of all other sacrifices, and the purpose of the sacrifice was to correct the effects of tumah/tum-a/טומאה, which is defined as a sort of moral depression caused by such things as contact with death (or surrendering to the travails of labor; there is a connection in the Hebrew of Leviticus 12 for those postpartum “sin” and purification requirements and the Red Heifer), according to 19th century Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch. Tumah/tum-a is anything that can cause a person to feel as though they are at the mercy of natural forces and merely a creature being acted upon, rather than a holy being capable of free will and acting of their own volition, as Rabbi Hirsch puts it. The act of making an offering or choosing to be sprinkled with the heifer’s ashes was a means for the affected person to choose to turn themselves back in alignment with God’s will and not merely remain at the mercy of natural forces.
And we understand Christ to have suffered and experienced alllllllll the effects of mortality (aka tumah/tum-a) when He “drank the bitter cup” and bled from every pore in Gethsemane. You’re welcome for the explanation and exhortation for which you did not ask 😊
@ericredd5590 The Red Heiffer is a type and shadow of Christ’s atonement in Gethsemane, which is apparent when you examine the where/how the ritual was carried out, and definitely the “why” of the sacrifice. There’s a nearly 20-yr old paper that goes into those details called “The Law of the Red Heifer: A Type and Shadow of Jesus Christ” for any interested in learning more.
It was perhaps necessary that it be a female animal to symbolize the life-giving nature of the sacrifice (it was the sacrifice that allowed for the continuation of all other sacrifices, and the purpose of the sacrifice was to correct the effects of tumah/tum-a/טומאה, which is defined as a sort of moral depression caused by such things as contact with death (or surrendering to the travails of labor; there is a connection in the Hebrew of Leviticus 12 for those postpartum “sin” and purification requirements and the Red Heifer), according to 19th century Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch. Tumah/tum-a is anything that can cause a person to feel as though they are at the mercy of natural forces and merely a creature being acted upon, rather than a holy being capable of free will and acting of their own volition, as Rabbi Hirsch puts it. The act of making an offering or choosing to be sprinkled with the heifer’s ashes was a means for the affected person to choose to turn themselves back in alignment with God’s will and not merely remain at the mercy of natural forces.
And we understand Christ to have suffered and experienced alllllllll the effects of mortality (aka tumah/tum-a) when He “drank the bitter cup” and bled from every pore in Gethsemane. You’re welcome for the explanation and exhortation for which you did not ask 😊
@ericredd5590 The Red Heiffer is a type and shadow of Christ’s atonement in Gethsemane, which is apparent when you examine the where/how the ritual was carried out, and definitely the “why” of the sacrifice. There’s a nearly 20-yr old paper that goes into those details called “The Law of the Red Heifer: A Type and Shadow of Jesus Christ” for any interested in learning more.
It was perhaps necessary that it be a female animal to symbolize the life-giving nature of the sacrifice (it was the sacrifice that allowed for the continuation of all other sacrifices, and the purpose of the sacrifice was to correct the effects of tumah/tum-a/טומאה, which is defined as a sort of moral depression caused by such things as contact with death (or surrendering to the travails of labor; there is a connection in the Hebrew of Leviticus 12 for those postpartum “sin” and purification requirements and the Red Heifer), according to 19th century Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch. Tumah/tum-a is anything that can cause a person to feel as though they are at the mercy of natural forces and merely a creature being acted upon, rather than a holy being capable of free will and acting of their own volition, as Rabbi Hirsch puts it. The act of making an offering or choosing to be sprinkled with the heifer’s ashes was a means for the affected person to choose to turn themselves back in alignment with God’s will and not merely remain at the mercy of natural forces.
And we understand Christ to have suffered and experienced alllllllll the effects of mortality (aka tumah/tum-a) when He “drank the bitter cup” and bled from every pore in Gethsemane. You’re welcome for the explanation and exhortation for which you did not ask 😊
@ericredd5590 The Red Heiffer is a type and shadow of Christ’s atonement in Gethsemane, which is apparent when you examine the where/how the ritual was carried out, and definitely the “why” of the sacrifice. There’s a nearly 20-yr old paper that goes into those details called “The Law of the Red Heifer: A Type and Shadow of Jesus Christ” for any interested in learning more.
It was perhaps necessary that it be a female animal to symbolize the life-giving nature of the sacrifice (it was the sacrifice that allowed for the continuation of all other sacrifices, and the purpose of the sacrifice was to correct the effects of tumah/tum-a/טומאה, which is defined as a sort of moral depression caused by such things as contact with death (or surrendering to the travails of labor; there is a connection in the Hebrew of Leviticus 12 for those postpartum “sin” and purification requirements and the Red Heifer), according to 19th century Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch. Tumah/tum-a is anything that can cause a person to feel as though they are at the mercy of natural forces and merely a creature being acted upon, rather than a holy being capable of free will and acting of their own volition, as Rabbi Hirsch puts it. The act of making an offering or choosing to be sprinkled with the heifer’s ashes was a means for the affected person to choose to turn themselves back in alignment with God’s will and not merely remain at the mercy of natural forces.
And we understand Christ to have suffered and experienced alllllllll the effects of mortality (aka tumah/tum-a) when He “drank the bitter cup” and bled from every pore in Gethsemane. You’re welcome for the explanation and exhortation for which you did not ask 😊
Love the show but you gotta ditch the intro music, I think it’s from Shark Tank or Kitchen Nightmares…
Key to the Keystone... another entry in the long, proud tradition of falling for pseudepigrapha. For centuries, fools have been taken in by random texts slapped with "ancient" labels, but Jonah Barnes? He’s diving in headfirst. His grand theory? That The Book of Mormon somehow unlocks lost truths found in apocryphal texts that, inconveniently, were written long after the events they supposedly clarify.
But no need to worry about that historical mismatch-just mix in a dash of magical thinking, and voilà! We’re suddenly reconstructing ancient brass plates from thin air. Barnes may have fallen for pseudepigrapha, but hey, at least he’s in good company-there’s no shortage of people eager to believe that "lost" texts hold the key to, well, anything.
Thanks for sharing your feelings
Hey Jonah if you can’t see Jesus in the Old Testament you might want to start over. With everything.
Isaiah 7:14 - “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”
Isaiah 9:6-7 - “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
Micah 5:2 - “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.
Jeremiah 23:5-6 - “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.”
Zechariah 9:9 - “Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion! Shout, Daughter Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and victorious, lowly and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”
Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 - These chapters are often called “the Suffering Servant” passages and are seen as detailed descriptions of the suffering and rejection that Jesus experienced during his crucifixion.
The point is that Jews read those verses and they are ambiguous enough that they can provide alternative interpretations. You can’t do that with the Book of Mormon or these other apocryphal texts.
@@thestickofjoseph Jonah also thinks that the Bible doesn’t teach that there is a Hell either. Jonah is wrong. Jonah wants to sell his book that teaches false doctrines. You guys are helping him to push people further from Christ and the true gospel.
You are criticizing a book you have never read. That is insanity.
@@thestickofjoseph You are correct I’ve never read it and I never will. To read a book about the apocrypha would be insanity. I don’t read false doctrine anymore and that’s why I stopped reading the Book of Mormon as well. Why don’t the LDS prophets teach from the Apocrypha during General Conference? Do you speak about the Apocrypha when you give a talk during sacrament meeting? No you don’t because it is not authorized. It is not biblical. It is not part of the LDS cannon. Why is that?
@Eagle_Powers Actually, When Pres Nelson was Elder Nelson, he gave a talk where he quoted the Discourse of Abbaton, or whatever the title is, but clarified it wasn’t scripture. The First Counselor in the Bishopric of my ward gave a sacrament talk last year where he also read a bit from an apocryphal source, dealing with premortality, but again, clarified it wasn’t scripture, and I have also given a talk where I mentioned an aspect of “hesed” found in apocryphal works about Adam and Eve, supported by recent prophetic statements about hesed and covenants. So. Even though it is “not authorized”/official scripture, that doesn’t mean it’s completely ignored, overlooked, or outright dismissed.
Yes, I realize I only have three examples, which is a pitiful sample size and completely anecdotal, but thisnn Mmk is not something I have tried to research extensively. I’m sure more references to apocryphal works could be found in conference talks if I did some actual research. The same can probably said for sacrament talks church-wide, but that would be much harder to learn.
I have a question if the devil never fell what would life be like who would be the enemy to God like if Juda never betrayed Christ how would he have died I think these things sometimes like is this the set standard or are we the odd one out.
I think if the devil never fell we’d have the natural man to contend with (natural man is the enemy of God, and all that). The Plan did not rely on an accuser (literally what “Satan” means in Hebrew) to fall. Were that the case, that would basically mean that at least one being would need to be “ordained” to be the master sinner, which does not mesh with the nature of God…
Human nature is enough of an impetus by itself to cause us to sin/choose to defy God’s laws whether knowingly or not (I.e. natural instincts push a creature to choose its own survival and needs over those/at the expense of its fellows). Having an accuser and other fallen angels to tempt us just means there’s that much more pressure on us to give in to nature over God’s laws.
@@gingersnaps215 so do you think we in our cycle got the short end of the stick like other worlds had it easier
I’ve heard Jared Halverson say in some episodes of Unshaken that our world is both the best and the worst: the best because this is where God came down and lived among us, and the worst because we killed our God.
And I dunno, nature is pretty brutal. I’m sure having less temptation pressuring you to choose mundane nature over divine makes life less harsh, but like chimps engage in warfare and cannibalism, and they’re (presumably…?!) not tempted by devils..
On the other hand I also saw an elephant documentary featuring a reserve for orphaned elephants, and one of the elephants had a damaged, super short trunk because of a poacher’s trap, and it couldn’t reach or grab the good, leafy branches. Its fellow elephant saw it struggle and pulled down a branch for it ❤️ The Light of Christ is also within all of creation, so there’s that 😊
@@gingersnaps215 But then I ask why this plan if we in a cycle is death a necessity or an option by death I mean a savior. I know we chose this plan but I'm guessing we saw our predecessors hell possibly Gods path and somehow we chose like the craziest and darkest like why unless death is a necessity and then I got to ask why regardless of the plan someones got to die that is really morbid.
This is where I think there are certain laws that just ARE and can’t be changed, like entropy. Death and decay are facets of entropy. To combat entropy, we have life and movement (and I would say ordinances and covenants to help build that net or bond between lives to further combat entropy, by binding as many lives as possible together).
I dunno, if you haven’t already, you might go check out the Ancient Tradition podcast (some episodes on UA-cam, but way more elsewhere). I sometimes question if the host actually has a PhD and everything else she claims (fairly certain Jacquelyn “Jack” Logan is a pseudonym for whatever reason; she is basically a ghost on the internet), but she seems well-read and makes many interesting points and connections. And there are a lot of scholarly resources linked on the website for the podcast, so you can see where she gets some of her ideas.
40 huh? Interesting.
Sad. I stopped listening to most youtube podcasts. Most have now elected to become worldly and have chosen money over message. I'm not interested in seeing anti-mormon or leftist political ads. Plus I used to listen while working out and no time to keep hitting the skip ad button. Satan always ruins everything good.
This is nothing new. D&C 91 talks about this
23:13 The Nemenhah record is exactly this. It prophesied that the restored Church would fall under condemnation after the first generation and would remain so until a few from the sixth generation would repent and begin to build Zion (Rough paraphrase).
This is a very hard message for the Church to accept, so this Lehite apocrypha sits unread in the Church history archive. The Church has had it for a decade and done nothing with it. Midegah came out last month testifying that it is true (on September 22! That HAS to be a coincidence.)
Who hath believed our report?