It’s a genuine term! :D Used commonly years ago but seems to have fallen out of language I guess. Still, I think the word encapsulates well the kind of people I’ll go on to mention.
"But it's a beta!" "But it's just released!" "But they'll patch it!" These people will eventually learn when they put too much of their hopes onto a bad product and get burned by it. I had to learn the hard way once too.
This industry no longer wants to strive for better it wants to strive for the safety and its customers are more than happy to continue to financially sustain safe products.
man I am getting real tired of these arguments used to defend half baked games, especially VR so they can just keep releasing unfinished 'games' (concepts in a semi playable form) I think people just WANT to like games like this but deep down know they aren't even close to what they should be. so they cope and say 'think of the devs' and such
One thing I’ve noticed a lot more in recent years is the creation of super fans via online forums and social media. This isn’t someone who simply likes the game it is someone that will defend a games position against all critics to the last man standing and in doing so completely looses all objectivity. They actually end up harming the game imho because it sets up the foundation for echo chambers which basically tell developers they can do no wrong…. Developers see this as the action of a loyal and committed fan base in particular any kind of PR interaction because they are easy to please but in doing so go deaf to their wider customer base. Since these groups tends to be small in numbers they both dig themselves into a hole bringing the game down with it.
I think people tie their identities to "things". An attack on something they've tied themselves to is an attack on them. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving small creators more leniency but when games are perpetually in early access that leniency should go away.
I agree, reviewing games that are in early access is a pain. I had devs commenting that "we did a big update since you last played" and pointing out "this is a project in development" i say if your a game or a software dev and you start taking money for your product you should accept that it's going to be reviewed and its in your intrest to refine your software before release. Best example i have is, buying into the radius on launch day, It was a buggy mess on release and now its a must have classic for any VR shooter fan. also the opposit happens, with some games being stuck in eternal "minor update" hell without any major changes. P.S i have some basic coding experience and totaly understand the amount of work needed for a VR Game. I have major respect for any Indie dev that realsed a Game commercialy (excluding cheap lazy asset flips).
It’s interesting how a few commenters have gravitated toward my meaning Early Access when I didn’t specifically mention it, though I understand. I didn’t mention EA for a reason as from my experience these attitudes are seen regardless, Battle Talent is a prime example of that.
"Minor Update" hell is what A Township Tale feels like to me. I just want the magic and cool places to be, and the only updates you see after a little over a year is "We made servers load a little faster!" and "You can now revive your friends!" Give me the Magic update, give me Alchemy. Give me more of the shit that made me fall in love with your game you bastards, stop giving me all these little gimmicks because its not getting me to come back.
Sponsored reviews do no favors here either... I've found the people with the most interest and fully formed feedback are smaller UA-camrs that have nothing to lose.
As for internet critique I respect fair and balanced criticism about a games features and presentation, but i get a disinterested by people who are clearly monetising outrage and calling it 'criticism', because i just don't find their analyses useful. If someone reviews a lot of games and gives a game a bad wrap, i'm more willing to listen than if its someone who does dozens of videos on why the "fans were BETRAYED!" or something to that effect. That being said, I recall Frontier Developments saying Elite Dangerous FPS mode would be getting VR at a 'later date' to sell it to us, then turned round and wrapped up VR alltogether and folded it into a 'legacy mode', with no new updates, that was particularly annoying, but i'm rarely that invested in most properties
I couldn’t agree more. There seems to be all kinds of things we are supposed to consider as consumers, however, the price tag rarely seems to consider us, as evidenced by game prices going up rather than down, even as content and quality are reduced. If someone is charging what is generally accepted as full price for a game it should be judged as such. I don’t care about what updates *may* come or about what struggle the developers *may* have encountered. It’s not my job as a consumer, or even of a reviewer, to care about such things. There is a simple value proposition put in front of me and it’s my job to assess it.
So while I might be more accepting of early access it really depends on how early and how big. However no I'm very much all for reviewing things as they are
Some leniency is in order if a title is in Early Access, I think, though, obviously, not when perpetually so. With that said, I think a review should be as things currently are, not what they potentially might become, as I'd want to know how things are currently to know if I should even spend my money on it. At the end of the day, $30 is $30 regardless if it's going to a single dev, a huge team, or a bunch of monkeys. As for evolving later on: Great! I want games to evolve and get better, and I think if the game's changed a lot, then a new review, or at least an update, is in order. Let's be honest, though, that's not always the case, and sometimes newer patches are downgrades, or flat out break things.
Games need to be completed on release. Very few early access games are ever fully finished. Subnautica and Barony are exceptions. (Barony might still be in early access but it feels like a complete game.)
I think a clever way to rebuke the potential "empathy" argument, is to mention that they might be a small team, or inexperienced or what have you, and then end that sentence stating that you don't care about their personal life.
I'm always vocal with criticism and compare games to older games of similar variety, using them as benchmarks for newer games. I also don't applaud games for bloating the game with minor details when I see a deficit of attention on other more critical aspects of the game (rdr2) However, being vocal about criticisms, even if I try my best to be fair about it, I often get shunned and berated for complaining too much. Criticism is often put aside as someone being a hater or being unreasonable, no matter how valid the critique may be, and I feel that is one of the many crucial reasons as to why we let game companies trample over us and do whatever they want
eh I wouldnt put too much into updates. Sure half the games that come out these days are just half-finished beta-releases practically. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt judge them assuming they will never update. Given how its basically just AAA that isnt Nintendo (except yk Kirby that one time and Pokemon), I think its fair to say these microtransaction ridden halfbaked glitchy messes arent acceptable. I dont care if they update it later. My thought is essentially, lets just take the idea of it being updated out of the question, just because, well really its hypothetical, why should we act like its a given?
The big, baby blue box on the steam page makes a game immune to all criticism. Everyone knows that.
I’m sorry Mr V I can’t take the word Netizens seriously, it’s too funny.
It’s a genuine term! :D Used commonly years ago but seems to have fallen out of language I guess. Still, I think the word encapsulates well the kind of people I’ll go on to mention.
@@MrVRVoice I can see why it fell out of use, it sounds like something from a horizon worlds advert
"But it's a beta!"
"But it's just released!"
"But they'll patch it!"
These people will eventually learn when they put too much of their hopes onto a bad product and get burned by it. I had to learn the hard way once too.
This industry no longer wants to strive for better it wants to strive for the safety and its customers are more than happy to continue to financially sustain safe products.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by ‘safety’?
man I am getting real tired of these arguments used to defend half baked games, especially VR so they can just keep releasing unfinished 'games' (concepts in a semi playable form)
I think people just WANT to like games like this but deep down know they aren't even close to what they should be. so they cope and say 'think of the devs' and such
One thing I’ve noticed a lot more in recent years is the creation of super fans via online forums and social media. This isn’t someone who simply likes the game it is someone that will defend a games position against all critics to the last man standing and in doing so completely looses all objectivity. They actually end up harming the game imho because it sets up the foundation for echo chambers which basically tell developers they can do no wrong…. Developers see this as the action of a loyal and committed fan base in particular any kind of PR interaction because they are easy to please but in doing so go deaf to their wider customer base. Since these groups tends to be small in numbers they both dig themselves into a hole bringing the game down with it.
Everyone on forums is self selected. It tends towards more extreme opinions whether it's "nothing to see here" or "the sky is falling"
This is a big part of what I’ll be saying next.
I think people tie their identities to "things". An attack on something they've tied themselves to is an attack on them. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving small creators more leniency but when games are perpetually in early access that leniency should go away.
Spoilers for the follow up video :D
That voice is godly
It’s cool how Mr. V and Dunkey released videos on a similar topic so close to each other - great minds think alike!
I agree, reviewing games that are in early access is a pain. I had devs commenting that "we did a big update since you last played" and pointing out "this is a project in development" i say if your a game or a software dev and you start taking money for your product you should accept that it's going to be reviewed and its in your intrest to refine your software before release.
Best example i have is, buying into the radius on launch day, It was a buggy mess on release and now its a must have classic for any VR shooter fan.
also the opposit happens, with some games being stuck in eternal "minor update" hell without any major changes.
P.S i have some basic coding experience and totaly understand the amount of work needed for a VR Game. I have major respect for any Indie dev that realsed a Game commercialy (excluding cheap lazy asset flips).
It’s interesting how a few commenters have gravitated toward my meaning Early Access when I didn’t specifically mention it, though I understand. I didn’t mention EA for a reason as from my experience these attitudes are seen regardless, Battle Talent is a prime example of that.
"Minor Update" hell is what A Township Tale feels like to me.
I just want the magic and cool places to be, and the only updates you see after a little over a year is "We made servers load a little faster!" and "You can now revive your friends!"
Give me the Magic update, give me Alchemy. Give me more of the shit that made me fall in love with your game you bastards, stop giving me all these little gimmicks because its not getting me to come back.
Love how you dislike games in constant development, and leave us with 'I'll explain everything in the next video' 😂
Unsurprised you spotted the irony of this one Golong :-)
Sponsored reviews do no favors here either...
I've found the people with the most interest and fully formed feedback are smaller UA-camrs that have nothing to lose.
As for internet critique I respect fair and balanced criticism about a games features and presentation, but i get a disinterested by people who are clearly monetising outrage and calling it 'criticism', because i just don't find their analyses useful. If someone reviews a lot of games and gives a game a bad wrap, i'm more willing to listen than if its someone who does dozens of videos on why the "fans were BETRAYED!" or something to that effect. That being said, I recall Frontier Developments saying Elite Dangerous FPS mode would be getting VR at a 'later date' to sell it to us, then turned round and wrapped up VR alltogether and folded it into a 'legacy mode', with no new updates, that was particularly annoying, but i'm rarely that invested in most properties
I couldn’t agree more. There seems to be all kinds of things we are supposed to consider as consumers, however, the price tag rarely seems to consider us, as evidenced by game prices going up rather than down, even as content and quality are reduced.
If someone is charging what is generally accepted as full price for a game it should be judged as such. I don’t care about what updates *may* come or about what struggle the developers *may* have encountered. It’s not my job as a consumer, or even of a reviewer, to care about such things. There is a simple value proposition put in front of me and it’s my job to assess it.
So while I might be more accepting of early access it really depends on how early and how big. However no I'm very much all for reviewing things as they are
Some leniency is in order if a title is in Early Access, I think, though, obviously, not when perpetually so.
With that said, I think a review should be as things currently are, not what they potentially might become, as I'd want to know how things are currently to know if I should even spend my money on it. At the end of the day, $30 is $30 regardless if it's going to a single dev, a huge team, or a bunch of monkeys.
As for evolving later on: Great! I want games to evolve and get better, and I think if the game's changed a lot, then a new review, or at least an update, is in order. Let's be honest, though, that's not always the case, and sometimes newer patches are downgrades, or flat out break things.
Games need to be completed on release. Very few early access games are ever fully finished. Subnautica and Barony are exceptions. (Barony might still be in early access but it feels like a complete game.)
I think a clever way to rebuke the potential "empathy" argument, is to mention that they might be a small team, or inexperienced or what have you, and then end that sentence stating that you don't care about their personal life.
I'm always vocal with criticism and compare games to older games of similar variety, using them as benchmarks for newer games. I also don't applaud games for bloating the game with minor details when I see a deficit of attention on other more critical aspects of the game (rdr2)
However, being vocal about criticisms, even if I try my best to be fair about it, I often get shunned and berated for complaining too much. Criticism is often put aside as someone being a hater or being unreasonable, no matter how valid the critique may be, and I feel that is one of the many crucial reasons as to why we let game companies trample over us and do whatever they want
Found Matt Berry's UA-cam channel.
eh I wouldnt put too much into updates. Sure half the games that come out these days are just half-finished beta-releases practically. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt judge them assuming they will never update. Given how its basically just AAA that isnt Nintendo (except yk Kirby that one time and Pokemon), I think its fair to say these microtransaction ridden halfbaked glitchy messes arent acceptable. I dont care if they update it later.
My thought is essentially, lets just take the idea of it being updated out of the question, just because, well really its hypothetical, why should we act like its a given?
Your voice is an instant sub my guy.
Honestly I think sponsorships played a big role into alot of this with newer game titles
your voice is amazing
Thank you.
Follow up video: ua-cam.com/video/oE30OCNdCrQ/v-deo.html
BLessing aign Mr voice ^^