Pre-Three Kingdoms Era (AD 184-220) ▪Yellow Turban Rebellion (AD 184-205) ▪End of the Han Dynasty (AD 189-220) Three Kingdoms Era (AD 220-280) ▪Cao Wei (AD 220-266) ▪Shu Han (AD 221-263) ▪Eastern Wu (AD 222-280) Post-Three Kingdoms Era ▪Western Jin (AD 266-316)
As a Dynasty Warriors fan since childhood, I can basically recite the whole Three Kingdoms period and its heroes from the Yellow Turban Rebellion to the end of the Three Kingdoms. Its basically all I know of Chinese history 😂
Naw I would say that the invasion that Liu Bei did against Sun Quan wasn't necessity but more of sheer revenge which was told towards him time and time again to not launch the invasion and yet, he did. When Liu Bei was going up north to attack Cao Cao who was at that point at his final legs of his life after Liu Bei took Hanzhong commandery off Zhang Lu, Guan Yu was told to hold station and guard the bread basket of Liu Bei's forces, Jing commandery. However, as ever that power hungry, Guan Yu heard how the other 4 of the Five Tiger Generals were claiming names and such fighting Cao Cao to a retreat again and again thus he too wanted a piece thus he took whatever forces were in the entire commandery and marched north to combat Cao Cao's forces at Fancheng. Jingzhou at that time had a force of an estimated strength of 300,000 strong and Zhuge Liang knew that Jingzhou's army was considered the elite of the elites in the entirety of Liu Bei's forces thus they were kept there to prevent Sun Quan's ever encroaching movements to claim back Jingzhou and he told Guan Yu to never sally into combat but let the forces grind the enemy down. However due to what Guan Yu did by charging towards Fancheng, he left Jingzhou practically empty that from 300,000 men, the entire commandery only had 30,000 left as a rear-guard where Guan Yu took the bulk of the force to attack Fancheng. Yes he did score two major victories against Yu Jin and destroying Pang De and Yu Jin's 6 divisions but he eventually got routed and lost all his own forces when Cao Cao sent Xu Huang over to Fancheng for the 3rd back up. However during this time, Lu Meng was already plotting to get back Jingzhou and having reports that Guan Yu had left the entire commandery unprotected, he slammed his forces into Jingzhou and claimed it back for Wu. When Guan Yu retreated back with his now broken army, he then realized that his city was lost and now with Lu Meng and Xu Huang sandwiching him on both ends, he fled but was eventually caught by Lu Meng and together with his adopted son, Guan Ping, both were executed by the orders of Lu Meng. That itself was considered a bad move on Lu Meng's part. Prior to Lu Meng becoming the chief commandant of Wu's army, Lu Su, the man who shared Zhuge Liang's view on a divided China, the Longzhong Plan, had told him to never attack or execute Liu Bei's trusty personals as that would mean that Wu with its tiny forces would never stand up to the wrath of Liu Bei's big force before his death but Lu Su did not listen to that advice. For those who don't know, Liu Bei and Guan Yu together with Zhang Fei are sworn brothers thus if one gets into trouble, another one would go and help be it thru fire or deep waters thus when Liu Bei heard that Jingzhou was lost and on top of that, Guan Yu was beheaded by the chief commandant of Wu, he lost it. He then went on a massive rampage against Wu and did in fact claim many territories off Wu's hands at one point. However, Zhuge Liang had literally told Liu Bei that he cannot afford to take the fight as his forces were tired from the Hanzhong campaign and with the bread basket of their forces now gone, supplies were at a thin line and with a tired army now trying to fight another campaign was suicidal but rage wouldn't let words get into Liu Bei's head this time no matter how rational he always was and so, war it is. Frankly, it was all a rage attack and no purpose at all as Liu Bei technically didn't have to attack Wu even after Guan Yu basically caused his own death by not obeying military order and worse still, by mass invading Wu after one massive campaign, Liu Bei allowed Cao Cao to bolster his forces for an upcoming campaign whenever they wanted whereas Liu Bei's forces and Wu's forces would be battered and bruised either way which would yet again unstable the peace on both sides for Wei/Cao Cao to attack.
Thank you for another great video! For the part 2 video, I'm excited to hear more about the cultural and social developments you referenced at the beginning. It feels like those aspects don't often get much attention compared to the grand military narrative. I wonder if you could also discuss the massive depopulation that is often mentioned in discussions of this period, what were the causes of it and what impact it had on the society and economy. I would also be interested to know more about what was happening on the frontiers in this period. You mentioned a bit about barbarian encroachments in the previous video about the decline of Eastern Han, but considering the coming Rebellion of the Five Barbarians, that seems like a topic that would be worth going over in more detail. Also your map here shows the Wei/Jin still controlling the Western Protectorate and northern Korea, as well as the Shu Han and Wu controlling parts of modern day Myanmar and Vietnam respectively. Were these states able to maintain effective control over distant areas like this even with all the other fighting going on, and, in general, what would life have been like on in these marginal territories vs in the core areas of the Central Plain, the Yangzi River Valley, and the Sichuan Basin?
Thanks again for the support, and yes I definitely plan on talking about these issues over the next few videos. My initial plan for this video was to go up until 316, but that would create a massive video with way too much information, so I thought it’d be simpler to break it down into two.
I really appreciate the way you narrated the video. It is exciting to listen to the story of The Three Kingdoms from your video. If Zhuge Liang have never left Xiangyang to guard Jing province against Sun Quan and Cao Cao, Liu Bei would have been able to control both Yi and Jing provinces. Zhuge Liang could have just sent Guan Yu and Zhang Fei to assist Liu Bei to conquer Yi province and requested Zhao Yun to guard Xiangyang with him. Shu Han would have succeeded in conquering Cao Wei and Eastern Wu. Eastern Han dynasty would have prevailed. People in China would have lived in peace and prosperity for many years. Why do you think Zhuge Liang never foresee this strategy of guarding Xiangyang?
Hard to say, and this is a topic that so many people have their own opinions on. One common criticism of Zhuge Liang by commentators over the centuries is that the "Longzhong Dui" was actually very poor strategy, because it meant splitting Liu Bei's already limited resources into two, one against Guanzhong and one against the Central Plains, without them being able to communicate with one another. My own sense is that maybe Guan Yu should never have attacked Xiangyang to begin with, since a Cao Wei army there would have posed much more of a threat to Sun Qun than to Liu Bei anyway, and capturing Xiangyang risked angering Sun Quan. After the victory at Hanzhong, it may have made more sense for Liu Bei to rest for a few years, make concessions to Sun Quan as needed to maintain just a bridgehead east of the Three Gorges, and then focus the whole army against Guanzhong. If Liu Bei controlled all of the northwest and southwest, along with a small part of Jing Province, then that may have given him the strategic positioning to win.
@@gatesofkilikien Actually, taking West Shu/modern day Sichuan was Pang Tong's advice, Zhuge Liang's Longzhong Dui only outlines taking Jing, ally with Sun Wu and defeat Cao Wei first. There's really no right or wrong in whether Pang Tong or Zhuge Liang was right. We can confirm 1 thing. Zhuge Liang is most familiar with Jing Province and if he had remained in Jing, he would've continued to performed seeming miracle strategies.
I became a huge fan of Zhuge Liang when I was only 8 years old after reading the novel "Romance of the Three Kingdoms". I was always rooting for Shu Han to win and see Cao Cao as the antagonist for a long time. But when I got older and experienced different and more objective takes on history, what I realized was I didn't matter who would unify the three states, what mattered was some one did it to restore peace. Cao Cao wasn't a villain, but an immmensely capable leader, even more so than Liu Bei. He was merely vilified by the work of a writer.
@@cuongdo3352 at 8 years old? you are a scholar, sir. And that analysis is something I didn't recognize for myself even after reading the novel over ten times. You are very insightful!
@@jaredsun4277 You overestimated me, sir. I'm ashamed to get such compliment. My childhood was somewhat deprived of reading materials because comics were a no-go for my conservative father. I just read whatever I could get my hands on so when my dad brought home that novel I hungrily devoured it whole. Regarding the insight on Cao Cao I didn't come to it on my own, but through discussions with others both online and offline, and sometimes by reading relevant historical articles. I don't deserve such praise, sir.
If Cao Pi was just more long lived or Cao Rui picked different regents, the Jin may never have happened and all the subsequent problems in the 8 Princes disorder
Just listening to the proper pronunciation of the Chinese names soothe my soul. The Zhuge Liang illness and death during his campaign was so anticlimac and upsetting too. I really wished for Sima family to fail reading the novels.
Thanks, for videos like these it definitely helps me that I'm bilingual. Zhuge Liang's death in both the novel and the TV series is quite depressing to read/watch, and the plot details are still very vague for me since it's hard to get myself to go through it.
Well they did fail in the end, their dynasty only ruled a unified China for only 10 years until they got destroyed by infighting and nomadic invasions.
Looking at Google Maps, Hanzhong is only a 4h drive/5 day walk from Xi'An along China National Highway 108. It looks so close on a map but I guess the logistical challenges of invading through the Qin mountains (without paved roads in that era) is just insurmountable for Zhuge Liang give that he was at a resource and manpower deficit to begin with.
As far as I know, the maps of Shuhan produced by Western countries only include Chengdu and a few nearby counties. I didn’t expect you to draw such a large area of Shuhan state😂😂😂
@@TheOis1984 Zhuge Liang's last Northern Expedition was recorded in official history as only 100,000 troops, so the number of troops in Shu Han was around this level.
Thanks, I'm starting to include reference materials for my more recent videos. I'll also be remaking this one at some point anyway since the later videos in the series have gotten more detailed, and I left out a ton of stuff in this video like details of Zhuge Liang's northern campaigns or Wu internal politics. I'll include the references in the remake.
Thanks for the suggestion. Yes I can work on a remake of that video when I get the chance. I was still learning how to use a mic at the time, and there were a lot of information I cut out from that video which I could included for the remake as well.
Perhaps this sheer negative perception of the Sima clan is what helped accelerate its rapid decline and reduce people's attachment to it. Who wants to bring back a Dynasty who earned it through backstabbing rather than through the Mandate of Heaven (perspective of Confucian Historian)?
Dont know if you see this or repond but anyway. Do you know if those distinctions of eastern Han dynasty and later Jin or nothern Wei. Were made during those times or close to it or is a completely modern creation ? Like Regnal numbers for older kingdoms or the eastern roman empire for instance. Just to facilitate understanding
They're made after the fact, and at the time they would have just been referred to as "Han" or "Jin" or "Wei". So much of which prefix to use is just historical convention, and in many circumstances the prefix can be dropped if there's no confusion. For example, the posthumous names of the emperors of the Northern Wei Dynasty and Liu Song Dynasty are referred to as just emperor such and such of "Wei" or "Song". One little change I've started to do in my videos is to alternate between referring to dynasties with and without prefixes to emphasize how people at the time would have called them.
Thanks for your suggestion and support, and I do agree there's a lot more I can do to make my videos more easily searchable to help the channel grow. I haven't been able to work on the channel as much these past few months, although my schedule should clear up some more in the near future and I'll start doing updates that I haven't been able to do for a while.
@@gatesofkilikien You're welcome and trust me I know. My Doctoral thesis is on this time period and I completely sympathize with you on the difficulties due to the conflicting records, lack thereof and of course the alliances and enmities that make the Balkans at their worst look positively stable by comparison.
@@grandadmiralzaarin4962 oh yes definitely this period is crazy, and such an important transition period too with all the social changes, so I'm trying to write something that does this period justice without it being too tedious either. For me this one of the most fascinating periods in Chinese history. Any specific areas of focus for your doctoral thesis?
@@gatesofkilikien specifically mine is focused on the effects of the Warlord Era on the Chinese psyche at the time. The different goals and personalities of the Warlords effects on their zones of control.
@@grandadmiralzaarin4962 I see, so topics like like how Cao Cao and Yuan Shao had differing attitudes towards handling the local elites under their control, or the tensions between the Jingzhou and Yizhou factions under Liu Bei?
Cao Wei's territory never extended into the Korean peninsula. The Goguryeo were there and they defended against Wei encroachment. Otherwise, good video, but your map of Wei is inaccurate and more problematically, Sinocentric.
Well, the Goguryeo were wrecked under the Gongsuns of Liaodong, and so is likely to be affected by Guanqiu Jian's campaigns I wouldn't trust the medieval Samguk Sagi chronicles too for being too distant to the then long spanning classical Korean Three Kingdoms period.
Yeah I've started to slow down with my narration in the more recent videos so hopefully that helps. I also plan to remake this video at some point and when I do should be able to upgrade a lot of the diagrams too.
Why are all these different states and ruling houses in the area simply referred to as China? They didn't speak Mandarin, their rulers often weren't Han, the cultures were different, so why do you and others call all of them "China?"
Pretty sure “China” or Zhongguo at the time refers to the general sino civilization. It didn’t necessarily refer to a country but a broader civilization and culture. Things such as the Chinese script, philosophy such as Confucian teachings, and general stuff like clothing, etiquette, and values.
@@aceflaviuskaizokuaugustusc8427 That doesn't answer my question at all. In fact, your reference to sino civilization doesn't help in the slightest. How would that cover the empires before the Han or before Confuscious? Or those where the rulers were of Step-origins and new religions like buddhism and christianity entered the area? What about the mongol Yuan and the Manchu Quing, the latter even forced hairstyle and clothing on the population. And e.g. back in the Shang there is evidence for human sacrifices and I forgot in which empire it was but there was revenge cannibalism practiced. How is all this variety "China?" I know you meant well, but what you wrote there doesn't adress my question at all.
@@inotaishu1 Well to explain the sino sphere/civilization more clearly would be it would be like when the Normans conquered England. The Normans were culturally French and they established themselves as the ruling class. For most their history in England they used French as their language cause it was considered more civilized/cultured. There was a disconnect of an elite/ruling class that was culturally different from the common populations. For a Chinese example take King Guojian of Yue the king that owned that famous sword, his state of Yue and its populations were culturally different from the Chinese at the time but he still stylized himself as a Chinese ruler because he derived legitimacy from that. But as for steppe empires the main one that comes to mind would be the Xiongnu Confederation who rose to prominence around the start of the Han dynasty. They were definitely not Chinese and couldn’t be considered China but what changed for successor nomadic empires were that when they invaded and conquered parts of China they would start styling themselves as Chinese rather than their nomadic origins. It was just easier and granted them some legitimacy when they ruled over the Han Chinese population. But another big factor would be assimilation and syncretism, when Buddhism was introduced into China it was considered foreign but then Buddhist monks syncretized and adapted some beliefs to appear more familiar with various Chinese folk religion and gods and it basically became a Chinese take on Buddhism. Christianity however couldn’t adapt because some Chinese beliefs the Catholic Church deemed incompatible it was called the Chinese rites controversy. But basically the Sino sphere/civilization made it fashionable/popular to join atleast for the ruling classes of other cultures. Because at that time it wasn’t necessarily the people that mattered but the ruling class.
@@inotaishu1 and we’ll for the Mongol yuan dynasty they did try hard to enforce a racial hierarchy and try to distance themselves from the Han Chinese culture but they they still stylized themselves as the Tianzi aka the Son of Heaven and as Emperor rather than Khan. For the Manchu Qing dynasty their attempt at the pig tails did propagate but their ruling class still assimilated I believe there was an anecdote where a Qing Emperor saw that one of his officials was a Manchu and tried to talk to him in their language only to find out the official couldn’t understand him
This is why this last name Sima is rarely seen nowadays, because of this nasty politics in ancient time.
Also not a lot of city folk want a horse-centric last name.
It used to be a fragrant name, now it’s a traitor’s name.
@shaggycan "Ma" is a popular last name though, but I never thought this came from Muhammad
@@lionerniec856 Ma is a semi-common surname and was a noble family including Ma Yuan and later Ma Chao of Three Kingdoms.
zhuge is hard to find too. but sima can be found in Central Asia
Pre-Three Kingdoms Era (AD 184-220)
▪Yellow Turban Rebellion (AD 184-205)
▪End of the Han Dynasty (AD 189-220)
Three Kingdoms Era (AD 220-280)
▪Cao Wei (AD 220-266)
▪Shu Han (AD 221-263)
▪Eastern Wu (AD 222-280)
Post-Three Kingdoms Era
▪Western Jin (AD 266-316)
Nobody talks about these eras of Chinese history. Thank you mate 🙏🏾
As a Dynasty Warriors fan since childhood, I can basically recite the whole Three Kingdoms period and its heroes from the Yellow Turban Rebellion to the end of the Three Kingdoms. Its basically all I know of Chinese history 😂
Thanks, appreciate it!
Thanks for the videos
the whole chinese history series ist very interesting to watch
Keep it up!
Glad you’ve liked them, thanks for your support!
Fascinating video. Surprised you don't have more subs.
Keep it up
Thanks, appreciate the support, and definitely working on growing the channel over time.
This was so well done!
Thanks, appreciate the support!
Naw I would say that the invasion that Liu Bei did against Sun Quan wasn't necessity but more of sheer revenge which was told towards him time and time again to not launch the invasion and yet, he did.
When Liu Bei was going up north to attack Cao Cao who was at that point at his final legs of his life after Liu Bei took Hanzhong commandery off Zhang Lu, Guan Yu was told to hold station and guard the bread basket of Liu Bei's forces, Jing commandery. However, as ever that power hungry, Guan Yu heard how the other 4 of the Five Tiger Generals were claiming names and such fighting Cao Cao to a retreat again and again thus he too wanted a piece thus he took whatever forces were in the entire commandery and marched north to combat Cao Cao's forces at Fancheng.
Jingzhou at that time had a force of an estimated strength of 300,000 strong and Zhuge Liang knew that Jingzhou's army was considered the elite of the elites in the entirety of Liu Bei's forces thus they were kept there to prevent Sun Quan's ever encroaching movements to claim back Jingzhou and he told Guan Yu to never sally into combat but let the forces grind the enemy down. However due to what Guan Yu did by charging towards Fancheng, he left Jingzhou practically empty that from 300,000 men, the entire commandery only had 30,000 left as a rear-guard where Guan Yu took the bulk of the force to attack Fancheng. Yes he did score two major victories against Yu Jin and destroying Pang De and Yu Jin's 6 divisions but he eventually got routed and lost all his own forces when Cao Cao sent Xu Huang over to Fancheng for the 3rd back up.
However during this time, Lu Meng was already plotting to get back Jingzhou and having reports that Guan Yu had left the entire commandery unprotected, he slammed his forces into Jingzhou and claimed it back for Wu. When Guan Yu retreated back with his now broken army, he then realized that his city was lost and now with Lu Meng and Xu Huang sandwiching him on both ends, he fled but was eventually caught by Lu Meng and together with his adopted son, Guan Ping, both were executed by the orders of Lu Meng.
That itself was considered a bad move on Lu Meng's part. Prior to Lu Meng becoming the chief commandant of Wu's army, Lu Su, the man who shared Zhuge Liang's view on a divided China, the Longzhong Plan, had told him to never attack or execute Liu Bei's trusty personals as that would mean that Wu with its tiny forces would never stand up to the wrath of Liu Bei's big force before his death but Lu Su did not listen to that advice.
For those who don't know, Liu Bei and Guan Yu together with Zhang Fei are sworn brothers thus if one gets into trouble, another one would go and help be it thru fire or deep waters thus when Liu Bei heard that Jingzhou was lost and on top of that, Guan Yu was beheaded by the chief commandant of Wu, he lost it.
He then went on a massive rampage against Wu and did in fact claim many territories off Wu's hands at one point. However, Zhuge Liang had literally told Liu Bei that he cannot afford to take the fight as his forces were tired from the Hanzhong campaign and with the bread basket of their forces now gone, supplies were at a thin line and with a tired army now trying to fight another campaign was suicidal but rage wouldn't let words get into Liu Bei's head this time no matter how rational he always was and so, war it is.
Frankly, it was all a rage attack and no purpose at all as Liu Bei technically didn't have to attack Wu even after Guan Yu basically caused his own death by not obeying military order and worse still, by mass invading Wu after one massive campaign, Liu Bei allowed Cao Cao to bolster his forces for an upcoming campaign whenever they wanted whereas Liu Bei's forces and Wu's forces would be battered and bruised either way which would yet again unstable the peace on both sides for Wei/Cao Cao to attack.
Thank you for another great video! For the part 2 video, I'm excited to hear more about the cultural and social developments you referenced at the beginning. It feels like those aspects don't often get much attention compared to the grand military narrative. I wonder if you could also discuss the massive depopulation that is often mentioned in discussions of this period, what were the causes of it and what impact it had on the society and economy. I would also be interested to know more about what was happening on the frontiers in this period. You mentioned a bit about barbarian encroachments in the previous video about the decline of Eastern Han, but considering the coming Rebellion of the Five Barbarians, that seems like a topic that would be worth going over in more detail. Also your map here shows the Wei/Jin still controlling the Western Protectorate and northern Korea, as well as the Shu Han and Wu controlling parts of modern day Myanmar and Vietnam respectively. Were these states able to maintain effective control over distant areas like this even with all the other fighting going on, and, in general, what would life have been like on in these marginal territories vs in the core areas of the Central Plain, the Yangzi River Valley, and the Sichuan Basin?
Thanks again for the support, and yes I definitely plan on talking about these issues over the next few videos. My initial plan for this video was to go up until 316, but that would create a massive video with way too much information, so I thought it’d be simpler to break it down into two.
More
Thanks for the videos on China. I'm trying to find more books and videos about ancient China.
Thanks! I’m working on some more stuff right now, planning to post it soon
I really appreciate the way you narrated the video. It is exciting to listen to the story of The Three Kingdoms from your video.
If Zhuge Liang have never left Xiangyang to guard Jing province against Sun Quan and Cao Cao, Liu Bei would have been able to control both Yi and Jing provinces. Zhuge Liang could have just sent Guan Yu and Zhang Fei to assist Liu Bei to conquer Yi province and requested Zhao Yun to guard Xiangyang with him. Shu Han would have succeeded in conquering Cao Wei and Eastern Wu. Eastern Han dynasty would have prevailed. People in China would have lived in peace and prosperity for many years. Why do you think Zhuge Liang never foresee this strategy of guarding Xiangyang?
Hard to say, and this is a topic that so many people have their own opinions on.
One common criticism of Zhuge Liang by commentators over the centuries is that the "Longzhong Dui" was actually very poor strategy, because it meant splitting Liu Bei's already limited resources into two, one against Guanzhong and one against the Central Plains, without them being able to communicate with one another.
My own sense is that maybe Guan Yu should never have attacked Xiangyang to begin with, since a Cao Wei army there would have posed much more of a threat to Sun Qun than to Liu Bei anyway, and capturing Xiangyang risked angering Sun Quan. After the victory at Hanzhong, it may have made more sense for Liu Bei to rest for a few years, make concessions to Sun Quan as needed to maintain just a bridgehead east of the Three Gorges, and then focus the whole army against Guanzhong. If Liu Bei controlled all of the northwest and southwest, along with a small part of Jing Province, then that may have given him the strategic positioning to win.
@@gatesofkilikien Actually, taking West Shu/modern day Sichuan was Pang Tong's advice, Zhuge Liang's Longzhong Dui only outlines taking Jing, ally with Sun Wu and defeat Cao Wei first. There's really no right or wrong in whether Pang Tong or Zhuge Liang was right.
We can confirm 1 thing. Zhuge Liang is most familiar with Jing Province and if he had remained in Jing, he would've continued to performed seeming miracle strategies.
I became a huge fan of Zhuge Liang when I was only 8 years old after reading the novel "Romance of the Three Kingdoms". I was always rooting for Shu Han to win and see Cao Cao as the antagonist for a long time. But when I got older and experienced different and more objective takes on history, what I realized was I didn't matter who would unify the three states, what mattered was some one did it to restore peace. Cao Cao wasn't a villain, but an immmensely capable leader, even more so than Liu Bei. He was merely vilified by the work of a writer.
@@cuongdo3352 at 8 years old? you are a scholar, sir. And that analysis is something I didn't recognize for myself even after reading the novel over ten times. You are very insightful!
@@jaredsun4277 You overestimated me, sir. I'm ashamed to get such compliment. My childhood was somewhat deprived of reading materials because comics were a no-go for my conservative father. I just read whatever I could get my hands on so when my dad brought home that novel I hungrily devoured it whole. Regarding the insight on Cao Cao I didn't come to it on my own, but through discussions with others both online and offline, and sometimes by reading relevant historical articles. I don't deserve such praise, sir.
If Cao Pi was just more long lived or Cao Rui picked different regents, the Jin may never have happened and all the subsequent problems in the 8 Princes disorder
thank u for this video, i love chinese history and ur channel is a gold mine 4 it
Just listening to the proper pronunciation of the Chinese names soothe my soul. The Zhuge Liang illness and death during his campaign was so anticlimac and upsetting too. I really wished for Sima family to fail reading the novels.
Thanks, for videos like these it definitely helps me that I'm bilingual. Zhuge Liang's death in both the novel and the TV series is quite depressing to read/watch, and the plot details are still very vague for me since it's hard to get myself to go through it.
Well they did fail in the end, their dynasty only ruled a unified China for only 10 years until they got destroyed by infighting and nomadic invasions.
Looking at Google Maps, Hanzhong is only a 4h drive/5 day walk from Xi'An along China National Highway 108. It looks so close on a map but I guess the logistical challenges of invading through the Qin mountains (without paved roads in that era) is just insurmountable for Zhuge Liang give that he was at a resource and manpower deficit to begin with.
As far as I know, the maps of Shuhan produced by Western countries only include Chengdu and a few nearby counties. I didn’t expect you to draw such a large area of Shuhan state😂😂😂
how Lo Guanzhong overblew the size of Liu Bei's army, from 50,000 to 700,000 in the novel Romance of The 3 Kingdoms
I don’t think Liu Bei at any time had a 700k army in ROTK.
@@Rorschachqp when he tried to avenge Guan Yu by attacking Jing province, in the romance it was written his army amounted to 700k troops
@@TheOis1984 Zhuge Liang's last Northern Expedition was recorded in official history as only 100,000 troops, so the number of troops in Shu Han was around this level.
@@nickskyblue3602 yes, that’s more believable. 100.000 was a pretty huge number of troops at that time
I love the videos, but I wish your videos had your reference materials in the video description
Thanks, I'm starting to include reference materials for my more recent videos. I'll also be remaking this one at some point anyway since the later videos in the series have gotten more detailed, and I left out a ton of stuff in this video like details of Zhuge Liang's northern campaigns or Wu internal politics. I'll include the references in the remake.
Pls, make a repost of ur first video about the geography of china. Its really good but the sound is not that. Otherwise, great job!
Thanks for the suggestion. Yes I can work on a remake of that video when I get the chance. I was still learning how to use a mic at the time, and there were a lot of information I cut out from that video which I could included for the remake as well.
@@gatesofkilikien it would be great. Tks
Perhaps this sheer negative perception of the Sima clan is what helped accelerate its rapid decline and reduce people's attachment to it.
Who wants to bring back a Dynasty who earned it through backstabbing rather than through the Mandate of Heaven (perspective of Confucian Historian)?
10:55
Jia Chong: Will no one rid me of this troublesome emperor?
Zhuge Liang is the GOAT
Great
Thanks!
Dont know if you see this or repond but anyway. Do you know if those distinctions of eastern Han dynasty and later Jin or nothern Wei. Were made during those times or close to it or is a completely modern creation ? Like Regnal numbers for older kingdoms or the eastern roman empire for instance. Just to facilitate understanding
They're made after the fact, and at the time they would have just been referred to as "Han" or "Jin" or "Wei". So much of which prefix to use is just historical convention, and in many circumstances the prefix can be dropped if there's no confusion. For example, the posthumous names of the emperors of the Northern Wei Dynasty and Liu Song Dynasty are referred to as just emperor such and such of "Wei" or "Song". One little change I've started to do in my videos is to alternate between referring to dynasties with and without prefixes to emphasize how people at the time would have called them.
your videos are great, but your channel name makes it really hard to search for them. i think you should change it !
Thanks for your suggestion and support, and I do agree there's a lot more I can do to make my videos more easily searchable to help the channel grow. I haven't been able to work on the channel as much these past few months, although my schedule should clear up some more in the near future and I'll start doing updates that I haven't been able to do for a while.
Excellent video! Will you be covering the Disorder of the Eight Princes?
Thanks, and yes I am working on that video right now, although it’s taking a lot longer than expected given how complicated the time period is
@@gatesofkilikien You're welcome and trust me I know. My Doctoral thesis is on this time period and I completely sympathize with you on the difficulties due to the conflicting records, lack thereof and of course the alliances and enmities that make the Balkans at their worst look positively stable by comparison.
@@grandadmiralzaarin4962 oh yes definitely this period is crazy, and such an important transition period too with all the social changes, so I'm trying to write something that does this period justice without it being too tedious either. For me this one of the most fascinating periods in Chinese history. Any specific areas of focus for your doctoral thesis?
@@gatesofkilikien specifically mine is focused on the effects of the Warlord Era on the Chinese psyche at the time. The different goals and personalities of the Warlords effects on their zones of control.
@@grandadmiralzaarin4962 I see, so topics like like how Cao Cao and Yuan Shao had differing attitudes towards handling the local elites under their control, or the tensions between the Jingzhou and Yizhou factions under Liu Bei?
Ironically none of the 3 kingdoms ever united china
Cao Wei's territory never extended into the Korean peninsula. The Goguryeo were there and they defended against Wei encroachment. Otherwise, good video, but your map of Wei is inaccurate and more problematically, Sinocentric.
Well, the Goguryeo were wrecked under the Gongsuns of Liaodong, and so is likely to be affected by Guanqiu Jian's campaigns
I wouldn't trust the medieval Samguk Sagi chronicles too for being too distant to the then long spanning classical Korean Three Kingdoms period.
Ive seen lots of maps with Goguryeo shaded in as a tributary, or vassal state. Maybe this one was simplified?
Zhuge Liang Giga Chad
jin conquered north korea at the time?
Sima Yi is more strategic and live more year then zhuge liang and has grand son to ambition to be emperor
Interesting times in China
Double surnames in Chinese are rare anyway.
Do research on those who tried to interprete history for you . are they credible, accurate ???? what are their motivation ???
instructions unclear, stab him with a spear
So bias toward Shu
You're in too deep! Control yourself
The way of the narration is too fast and confusing
Yeah I've started to slow down with my narration in the more recent videos so hopefully that helps. I also plan to remake this video at some point and when I do should be able to upgrade a lot of the diagrams too.
Why are all these different states and ruling houses in the area simply referred to as China? They didn't speak Mandarin, their rulers often weren't Han, the cultures were different, so why do you and others call all of them "China?"
Pretty sure “China” or Zhongguo at the time refers to the general sino civilization. It didn’t necessarily refer to a country but a broader civilization and culture. Things such as the Chinese script, philosophy such as Confucian teachings, and general stuff like clothing, etiquette, and values.
@@aceflaviuskaizokuaugustusc8427 That doesn't answer my question at all. In fact, your reference to sino civilization doesn't help in the slightest. How would that cover the empires before the Han or before Confuscious? Or those where the rulers were of Step-origins and new religions like buddhism and christianity entered the area? What about the mongol Yuan and the Manchu Quing, the latter even forced hairstyle and clothing on the population. And e.g. back in the Shang there is evidence for human sacrifices and I forgot in which empire it was but there was revenge cannibalism practiced. How is all this variety "China?" I know you meant well, but what you wrote there doesn't adress my question at all.
@@inotaishu1 Well to explain the sino sphere/civilization more clearly would be it would be like when the Normans conquered England. The Normans were culturally French and they established themselves as the ruling class. For most their history in England they used French as their language cause it was considered more civilized/cultured. There was a disconnect of an elite/ruling class that was culturally different from the common populations. For a Chinese example take King Guojian of Yue the king that owned that famous sword, his state of Yue and its populations were culturally different from the Chinese at the time but he still stylized himself as a Chinese ruler because he derived legitimacy from that. But as for steppe empires the main one that comes to mind would be the Xiongnu Confederation who rose to prominence around the start of the Han dynasty. They were definitely not Chinese and couldn’t be considered China but what changed for successor nomadic empires were that when they invaded and conquered parts of China they would start styling themselves as Chinese rather than their nomadic origins. It was just easier and granted them some legitimacy when they ruled over the Han Chinese population. But another big factor would be assimilation and syncretism, when Buddhism was introduced into China it was considered foreign but then Buddhist monks syncretized and adapted some beliefs to appear more familiar with various Chinese folk religion and gods and it basically became a Chinese take on Buddhism. Christianity however couldn’t adapt because some Chinese beliefs the Catholic Church deemed incompatible it was called the Chinese rites controversy. But basically the Sino sphere/civilization made it fashionable/popular to join atleast for the ruling classes of other cultures. Because at that time it wasn’t necessarily the people that mattered but the ruling class.
@@inotaishu1 and we’ll for the Mongol yuan dynasty they did try hard to enforce a racial hierarchy and try to distance themselves from the Han Chinese culture but they they still stylized themselves as the Tianzi aka the Son of Heaven and as Emperor rather than Khan. For the Manchu Qing dynasty their attempt at the pig tails did propagate but their ruling class still assimilated I believe there was an anecdote where a Qing Emperor saw that one of his officials was a Manchu and tried to talk to him in their language only to find out the official couldn’t understand him
@@aceflaviuskaizokuaugustusc8427 So the Qing empire was not China then as the Qing kept their seperate Manchu identity?