How does Tears of the Kingdom fit into the Zelda timeline?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- I still can't decide if I love or hate Zelda lore.
Huge thanks to @MadLuigi for helping me dissect the timeline and listening to my unhinged lore rants. He recently uploaded a pretty cool video explaining the game's true ending for those interested:
• Tears of the Kingdom: ...
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Music used (all taken from the Legend of Zelda game series):
The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds - Overworld
A Link Between Worlds - Lorule Castle
Tears of the Kingdom - Robbie's Theme
Breath of the Wild - Maze Forest
Age of Calamity - Warriors of Hyrule
Age of Calamity - Imminent Threat
Spirit Tracks - Zelda's Spirit Lullaby
Four Swords Adventures - Tingle's Theme
Age of Calamity - The Battle of Hyrule Field
Tears of the Kingdom - Maze (Sky)
A Link Between Worlds - Ravio's Theme
Skyward Sword - Faron Woods
Twilight Princess - Kakariko Village
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated, and you can support the channel by leaving a like or comment if you enjoy!
#zelda #tearsofthekingdom
My personal interpretation is that "Hyrule" has beem founded and destroyed multiple times throught history, like how in spirit tracks it established that a new hyrule was founded after the old one was flooded. So the Zonai didn't found *THE* kingdom of Hyrule, they founded *A* kingdom of Hyrule.
Yet where stated as the first king of Hyrule. What tears that interpretation down is that temples from SS show up in botw
@@drewhaynes1874 the ame calling him the first king of hyrule could still just mean he is the first king of THIS hyrule, that he founded. Not the first king of hyrule in the zelda timeline. And I don't see what SS ruins prove? There's ruins, armor, and references to many different zelda games, not just that one. Unless your saying that I'm saying everytime hyrule was destroyed they got up and founded it somewhere else l like in spirit tracks. I'm not, they just founded a new hyrule in the same place as the previous ones
Honest may explains why the Lost Woods are north of the castle.
@@remnock this Hyrule is the same Hyrule that was established after skyward sword. The goddesses statue, the forest temple from skyward sword, the lost woods and the deku tree the temple of time from oot lon lon ranch and Zelda mentioning the legends of the last games confirmed this Hyrule is the same Hyrule as it's always been.
Purah and Zelda ganon etc have confirmed rauru was the first king of hyrule.... The very first....
@@drewhaynes1874 purah zelda and ganon can only go off of their lifetimes. this is a moot point. rauru is the first king of THIS hyrule, and that's all they have to go off of.
These two games work much better if they're just outside the timeline. They seem designed to be on their own, too many contradictions.
Honestly, yeah, I don't think there's a better explanation than that at this point
@@VLimit11 If you want to be generous you could say that the other games are “legends” of past events. So Ocarina was a factionalized version of the “actual” events that got passed down through generations. So the broad strokes were right (Ganondorf, Rauru, the sages) but the details were lost through time and retelling. Skyward Sword works the same way with the Zonai. They knew that at some point the founders of their kingdom lived in the sky, but the details of it were all lost through a generations long game of telephone and Skyward Sword ended up as the legend version of it. Like how all the Mad Max movies contradict each other because they’re all someone within the world presented telling a story.
@@ElectricheadPt1 This is what I believe as well.
It would clarify why are there so many references to past games in the worlds, these are the objects that inspired the legends.
It would also explain why there are 3 timelines, as the legend spread all around Hyrule different versions came to be.
Who knows, maybw there's one version with Morshu, perhaps the one told by those monster lovers.
Yup. When they said that Rauru is the first king of hyrule i was like 'wow so they yeeted out skyward sword right away huh.'
There's just too much contradictions, I'd rather really have this contained in its own timeline.
Can't wait for the canonical sequel to age of calamity that alters the timeline yet again lol.
I remember when BotW came out and they basically said "its been so long since the last game in each timeline that the differences have faded" and essentially did a less dismissive version of what disney did with star wars legends, and at the time that made sense. But with TotK, its become exceedingly clear that this is either a separate timeline or something like a soft reboot, considering the Zonai founding Hyrule contradicts Skyward Sword entirely and Ganondorf's plan is effectively the same as what he did in OoT. I think what the Zelda team has realized is that this far into the series, trying to maintain a strict timeline that accounts for the OoT split and every game in it is more stifling than it is helpful for creating new and interesting stories, and they're better off making self-contained worlds with consistent similarities between them, with the items from other games being like a sort of "greatest hits" compilation to look back on the rest of the series in these games that mark the end of that era of Zelda and the start of a new approach.
I dont think the zonai stuff contradicts anything it could just be hyrule was wiped off the face of the earth and a new one was founded personally i like to think using the gate of time in skyward sword also created a timeline split
@@srmelancia3523 That's actually basically the Adult Timeline.
@Kevin I don't remember seeing the Zonai in Spirit Tracks smh my smh
@@Kaiserker The one I was talking about was the Hyrule that was submerged under the ocean, not the new Hyrule that Spirit Tracks takes place in.
Thought that was obvious, evidently not. Major SMH indeed.
Facts.
My head canon is that there was a timeline split during Skyward Sword caused by
Demise being defeated in the past by Link and future by the Triforce slamming the Goddess Statue into the Imprisoned. That way, they can make as many retcons as they like because it's a brand new, unexplored timeline where events of the games we know happened in slightly different ways, hence all the references to past games
My idea is that the major Zelda Timeline involves the people of Skyloft establishing hyrule, while the BotW and TotK timeline are after the events of Demise's death, cursing the calamity upon the hero and reincarnation.
Me too. If SS split and botw/totk are of the timeline where link defeated demise in the past then that would explain why the goddess sword wasn't transformed since future Link defeated him before it was needed.
@@josephharter8641 Agreed, back when Skyward Sword came out I wished that they would simply put a split there and say that the Goddess Sword became the Four Swords instead and put all the Four Swords game there. But either way if the Goddess Sword never became the Master Sword then… where does the Master Sword come from in BOTW and TOTK? especially considering Fi seems to be in there
Love this approach. Fi's choice of words about Demise's imprisonment made it sound like a stable loop at the time, but this is such a nice way fit Skyward Sword's story elements into this new soft reboot, and it's worth noting that the director for botw/totk also did Skyward Sword
This works for me. It's also interesting that SS was re-released in between BOTW and TOTK, as if it's a key component to the stories of those two.
Couple of key things that helped me come to terms with the timeline:
1. Rather than thinking that you can place botw at the end of what timeline you want. Think of as if every timeline will eventually be BOTW.
2. In botw, Impa explains that Calamity Ganon has reincarnated multiple times. This means that botw takes place AT LEAST MORE than 10,000 years after the ends of each timeline. Could be 20,000. Could be 100,000. All we need to know is that enough time has passed to allow each timeline's world to become similar to each other to allow point 1 to happen.
3. The depths is the remanence of the Hyrules from past games. Rauru formed BOTW's Hyrule on top. This is why you find a vast majority of the old games outfits in the depths.
4. Why are all the separate timeline's content now in 1 continuity? This would be the most outlandish idea here, but I kind of viewed it as the timelines healing over that very looooong time. So much time would have passed that the old games just don't have any impact on current events anymore. There's no harm in merging continuity at that point. There was no big outlandish major event that merged the timelines. It's just that they did, over tens of thousands of years and eventually becoming the depths.
I remember a Game Theory about how hyrule warriors fix a lot of the inconsistencies in BOTW because it literally smashes all the timelines together, which would explain why some elements from each timeline are here and gives the developers an excuse to only use the parts of those timelines they like because maybe the other parts weren't merged into the new timeline.
Nah
@@Dd-fb2tj that’s your reply, really?
That sounds good, but the ruins of the Temple of Time from Ocarina and Lon Lon Ranch are in BOTW and TOTK
@@AugsburgPilgrim they could be different ones, don't forget that before botw the temple of time was supossed to have been built by rauru on top of the sealed temple once hyrule was founded, yet in botw they're in two entirerly different locations
Calling the goddess sword the white sword of the sky is really important because there is a sword in the original zelda called the white sword so that's also interesting. Looked at the Zelda dungeon page and there have been other white swords so it isn't weird that there are more of them or it has been reforged.
That line was broken
It has been remade
@@Medicalguy Thanks, I fixed it. :)
@@benji-menji Lol that was a lord of the rings joke
I'm guessing someone reforged the sword and people held on to it believing it was the real thing, forgetting it was a recreation
@@Jacobschannel18802 I personally think that they forget about the white sword and then make a new one under the same name. Either way, legendary weapon are used and reforged which is pretty neat.
I think the Zonai refounded(unknowingly) Hyrule thousands of years after the original Hyrule from each timeline had been destroyed.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Din, Farore, and Nayru pulled some shenanigans in the years between to bring the timelines back together.
This would basically reset everything, while still maintaining the validity of the previous games.
Finaly some on else who understands the crash point theory
@@deputy_of_comments Might not even be the golden goddesses though. Zelda has consistently been the sage of time, and even in Skyward Sword, there was a time gate. Makes me wonder if Time isn't something under the domain of Hylia. Would even give the idea of the timelines merging more credence, because we all know Her Grace has a soft spot for link.
Exactly! If the curse is eternal then shouldn’t everyone keep on reincarnating, forever?
@@SecondSons6887 He would absolutely be the first king of the current Hyrule.
This is my assertion too. Past-totk is just post-convergence, establishing 'converged history' that is itself directly after convergence of timelines.
I think the channel Thinking At Maximum Volume did the best video on it for this line of thinking. Though I have separate thoughts too to give proof to it.
Ofcourse besides what the devs themselves say about convergence.
My personal headcanon for these 3 games is that they take place not tens of thousands of years after the others, but maybe millions or even billions. The timescale is so vast and the cycle of reincarnation originating from Demise's curse has held for so long that tons of possible permutations have happened in every timeline. For example, even in the child timeline, the Wind Waker, or something similar, will happen eventually given enough runs at the cycle, explaining the references to all 3 timelines in these games. The characters of Tears of the Kingdom referring to the seemingly contradictory founding of Hyrule and its first monarchs may do so because at one point the Hyrule of the rest of the timeline was so completely destroyed that it had to be completely restarted in another place or a far later time. I think BOTW and TOTK are in either the adult or child timelines because of a few details in Age of Calamity. There are a few things in the time Terrako jumps to that don't line up with BOTW's backstory, the biggest being Link not yet having the Master Sword. This makes me think Terrako went not back in time but to another timeline, where things are playing out nearly but not fully identically. The fallen timeline is more pf a "what-if" scenario, but the other two coexist if the hero wins, so Terrako would be theoretically able to jump between them. The goddess sword, though, that's tough. I don't yet have an explanation for that, but any ideas for how it fits into this theory are welcome. (This all assumes Amiibo things are non-canon and just out-of-universe fan service)
Assuming Ganondorf could recover from his petrification, all of the timelines could’ve taken place in the Child timeline, with the reason for the fragmented triforce being simply that it’s been a heck of a long time.
Worth noting that in one timeline Hyrule is under the ocean and in another is more or less a wasteland where people live in caves.
I don't think it's a stretch to say that after countless encounters with Ganon, Hyrule was destroyed and then re-founded by Rauru, and these relics are either easter eggs or from the previous kingdom. ALSO worth noting you find these relics in ancient Zonai ruins. Ruins that, presumably predate even Rauru himself. So the kingdom's "founding" couldn't possibly be before any of the other games. This keeps BOTW and TOTK still in their own little bubble "at the very end" but keeping them a part of the same continuity so they can shove easter eggs and references in there.
Also people tend to forget that Spirit Tracks was an completely new kingdom created by WW Link and Zelda so the possibly of a new kingdom being made from ruin or in a new land isn’t far fetched at all because it has canonically happened before
What makes you think the Zonai Ruins, predate Rauru? The Zonai were supposed to be like gods to the hylians, and we can see that in their technology and power and they were said to have descended on to the world, they didn't evolve there. The Zonai Ruins in Faron are extremely primitive compared to what else we've seen of the Zonai. I think it makes more sense for these ruins to have been built by ancient Hylians who encountered the Zonai. Possible the ones we see in Raurus time that wear the Zonaite clothing
@@daveski7 I'm talking about The Depths.
@@daveski7 Also, another point. The Zonai chests that contain the relics of the past can only be opened by a Zonai. Tauro isnt able to open them. Only Link because he has Raurus arm. So either Rauru put the objects in there or another Zonai did.
@@megamannt125 Oh gotcha. Although just because modern Hylian's can't doesn't mean they couldn't in the past. Raurus arm definitely is one way. But the Hylians that lived with Ruaru at that time probably would have had a way to open doors etc otherwise everyone would be trapped inside buildings lol.
This game gave me a timeline aneurysm for one giant reason. Ganondorf. I’m a child timeline purist because Twilight Princess is directly referenced, but I do like MatPat’s take about it being a multiversal convergence a la Hyrule Warriors. The major problem is that (what seems like) shortly after the events of Skyward Sword (since Rauru announces he’s Hyrule’s first king, and many ancient murals describe certain things that would have only occurred when Skyloft was still around, as both they and Rauru refer to the sky islands like they had been around not too long before they had fallen), Ganondorf is sealed - for 10,000+ years up until now, as Calamity Ganon was purely a manifestation of his malice. This means that Ganondorf was still taking his Power Nap while somehow entering the temple of time to take the Triforce for himself, busy manipulating Zant in one timeline, trying to regain power in a flooded Hyrule in another, and busy being a pig wizard in the third until they converge. I’m sorry, is this dude just Darkseid, and calamity Ganon plus the other Ganondorfs just avatars, or what the heck is going on here?
I like to think that BOTW takes place after Warriors1 and is a result of the timelines merging into one so long after the games that everything is legend.
Warriors2 is the start of a separate timeline between 1 and BOTW, with the mini guardian thing in 2 being the "fortue-teller" from the diary.
I also think that Rauru failed at fully seeling Gannondorf/Demon King and that he used the secret stone to create a backup plan (AKA Demise). Because of this, Zelda finds out about a certain knight that the first king of Hyrule had locked away (Manga from Hyrule Historia). This Knight then forges what we know of as the White Goddess Sword. This sword is used to seal Demise, finishing the work of Rauru and creating the Sky islands where the goddess Hylia sends the remaining Hylians to until the events of Skyward sword.
I think that ToTK is an end to the story of Gannondorf and the cycle of rebirth as link has finally finished off the original Gannondorf and the secret stone is no longer.
The "ancient history" of BotW happens after all other games in the timelines, including TotK's founding of Hyrule.
@@TheBigbean500 I don't think HW is canon because after the game they all go back to their respective timelines and the merging of timelines was reverted
Where is Twilight Princess directly referenced? I can only think of Zelda's speech, dlc/amiibo items, and certain location names (e.g. arbiter's grounds), but all three of those reference all three timelines, and I would personally consider those indirect references (i.e. may just be a nod and wink in the writing rather than any deeper lore).
I think adult timeline is the closest to being directly referenced. A sage named "Medli" is talked about, many references to a "great flood", a sage named "Nabooru" is mentioned, and in-game historical texts talk about a sage named "Ruto" fighting alongside Zelda and the hero to defeat a great evil. Those are all adult timeline only events/characters. But even then, that's still compatible with the reboot theory as well. It could be referencing events similar to the adult timeline, rather than the adult timeline itself.
@@SeeMyDolphin Don't forget the monument that is kinda similar looking to the Mirror of Twilight near Lurelin village in BOTW, which has you trying to find 3 chunks of it around the beach, similar to finding the 3 shards of the Mirror of Twilight in Twilight Princess.
Is it possible that the Zonai were brought down to Hyrule by the goddesses as part of the process to heal the three timelines back into one, thus artifacts, races, and characters of the various timelines could become stitched together into this new world
my theory is that they come after windwaker/phantom hourglass/spirit tracks
botw explicitly says that the great plateau is the birthplace of the kingdom of hyrule, could it be the same continent from spirit tracks, but after the water receded? king rauru and queen sonia aren’t the first to establish Hyrule, but they instead REestablish the kingdom hundreds or even thousands of years after spirit tracks when the water recedes and no one knows about the former hyrule. this would also explain the lack of knowledge of the triforce, while still having it being used symbolically. it is a divine object that still chooses who receives its power, like Zelda (and presumably her ancestors too) having the sealing power, symbolized by the full triforce.
yes, there's mentions of the other timelines in these two games, but this one seems the most likely fit to me
New Hyrule is a Continent far from the original Hyrule as it took Link and Tetra years to find it and the Great Sea also covers the entirety of Hyrule so it's unlikely for New Hyrule to exist in the middle of it
@@GameparkGames it does says it’s far away, yes, but the great plateau is larger than the entire map from ocarina of time, so really i think it could be a perspective thing. i could also be wrong 🤷♂️
Makes somewhat sense. I don't know if New Hyrule fits there, but the fact that it happens after the water from Wind Waker receded makes sense. The Korok explicitly said that reached to rebuild the continents in Wind Waker.
personally I think that this continuity is the end result of previous time lines merging into one due to the events of the first hyrule warriors game. that's why there are all these strange out of time conflicting relics that shouldn't exist. that's why both rito and zora exist. totks past is set in a time long after the events of hyrule warriors, after hyrule was lost or destroyed and then later resettled and remade, so long ago that the name of Ganondorf, Zelda, and the master sword were forgotten legends
That’s a surprisingly great explanation
I've always liked the idea of Hyrule Warriors acting as a catalyst for the timelines to converge, both because it simplifies things timeline wise greatly and because it is a good game that deserves recognition.
Sadly Nintendo says the Hyrule Warriors Definitive edition is not canon to any of the timelines. So personally I think Skyward Sword spit the timeline into having one that leads to OOT and another that leads to BOTW/AOC/TOTK
it would make sense, but hyrule warriors is not cannon
If you imagine time as a ripple in the water i suppose.
For the white sword of thw sky, I wouldn't say it's that far fetched to say it comes from another time since you get it from "the Mother statue" which is the biggest goddess, the goddess being Hylia who was the goddess of time and who has shown that time travel is not outside her scope of powers
The simple answer is that all of the events of these two games, including the past sections take place so far into the future that past games become mere legends. It is essentially a reboot, but an in universe one. It still fits in the timeline, but it is so far later that past games can be referenced without holding much weight in the modern stories.
It doesn't fit on the timelines if it's another canon entirely for being a reboot just like Breath of The Wild. There's no in universe explanation for the massive changes, almost no mention of the Triforce.
I like the idea that it takes place thousands of years into all timeliness future, even the stuff with the zonai.
Due to Denise's curse we can just say that everything is bound to repeat eventually, with hyrule being re-founded after centuries of being lost.
Plus, Totk can wrap up everything by having another version of the demon king being killed, ending the curse
I see the items like the Twilight Tunic and White Goddess sword as replicas made to honor the great heroes throughout history, not the actual items preserved.
I'm definitely a fan of that interpretation! There's still the question of how knowledge of seemingly incompatible historical events exists here, but treating them as replicas makes it a lot less of a logistical nightmare.
My personal theories are either the 3 timelines reconverged sometime prior to 10,000 years before BotW or BotW and TotK take place in the adult timeline a.k.a Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Spirit Tracks. The first one is self explanitory but the second theory goes that the Great Ocean covering old Hyrule dried up sometime after Spirit Tracks at a time when old Hyrule had faded well into legend and the people of New Hyrule returned to the old kingdom where it was found that a sect of Zora had managed to survive and by this time the Rito had evolved even further into full fledged bird people rather than the humans with bird features seen in Wind Waker and the Lokomo seen in Spirit Tracks have evolved into the Zonai and having legends of what their ancestors did to help in the founding of New Hyrule descend from the heavens to help the in the formation of another new kingdom of Hyrule. I base this theory off of the leviathan skeletons and the fact that Koroks and Rito only exist in Wind Waker, BotW, and TotK. I'm also open to the idea that BotW and TotK are in a separate fourth branch of the timeline.
Game theory spoke about the possibility of Hyrule Warriors being cannon despite being declared not cannon. Because all timelines interacted in that game, the timeshift could have made the new world we saw in the wild series.
I want to believe that Botw and Totk takes place long into the future and all amiibo content isn't cannon.
Thing is, there are chests all over the Depths that contain previous amiibo content.
@@Kasum_ish yeah, only as side quest or treasure maps. Like, how is there a fierce deity costume and sword? It was supposed to be a transformation.
I like to think that BOTW and TOTK take place long long jn the future in an ALTERNATE timeline after Skyward Sword. Long for the Master Sword to been forged and weakened and the founding of Hyrule. This Ganondorf was the only incarnation of Demise in this alternate timeline. Also since Hylia was introduced in Skyward Sword, makes sense that people are only worshiping her instead of the Golden Goddesses.
However, this doesn’t line up with what Zelda said in the Link’s Champion ceremony.
The amiibo items are non canon easter eggs.
I personally prescribed by the theory that there has been a dragon break that has collapsed all three timelines upon each other and so it's just one continuity now
My theory is that a super long time after each of the three main timelines, they kinda start to become the same and then hyrule gets destroyed, I think the original people that decided to stay in the sky in skyward sword then came back down as the zonai and rebuilt hyrule in it’s former image since they would’ve seen it built and destroyed many time at that point, then those thousands of years after the timeline remerged that’s when botw and totk Take place
Something I really like about TOTK is that you can find every amiboo rewards inside of TOTK!
I'd guess that TotK is 8 years after BotW. In an IGN video where Zelda's English voice actor reacts to comments, she makes an off-handed comment implying that Zelda is 125 years old. It's possible that's not what she meant, but she sounded weirdly confident. This means about 8 years have passed, which I can absolutely believe with Hudson's child being 8, and Koko being about a teenager in Kakariko.
@@zainrafiq2693 Very true, but Koko doesn't look too old to me so I think 8 years is a good guess.
I’d heard people mention it being around that time
Man, your production quality is off the chart. You must have spent hours and hours in After Effects, I presume, keyframing all these custom animations. I think my favorite part is the scrolling gear screens starting at around 10:40. Beautiful!
Thank you so much! And yeah keyframing everything always ends up taking way more time than I expect 😅
The way I see it is that every game takes place on one of three timeliness, but each game that isn't directly a sequel is one of many multiverses. That's why the sage scene at the beginning of twilight princess does not make sense in context to ocarina of time, or [spoilers for tears] and [spoilers for syward]. But story beats thread between in a way that still vaguely in a way that makes sense.
The way i see it is that the splitting timeliness re-merged during the massive gap.
The also way I also see it is that any items that came from any amiibo in BotW is still noncannon to TotK, they just made it available for free in-game instead of locking them behind amiibos that aren't available to people anymore
I'd love to see your take on remaking the timeline. Essentially doing what they did in the Hyrule Historia book, and throwing the games in whatever order makes the most sense with any headcanon explanations needed to make connections between the games. It'd be interesting to see an attempt to fit in all the games, and/or an attempt to more cohesively fit the major games together, while relegating some of the other side games to separate universes for the sake of a more cohesive main timeline.
maybe botw/totk hyrule is just a another "new" hyrule founded long after the one in the adult timeline. it could explain some weird early history stuff (ie the ritos existing in botw/totk ancient hyrule) by saying it takes place in a NEW hyrule, ages after the last one had fallen or whatever. its just that, unlike spirit tracks, no one really makes a mention that this is a new hyrule.
i think this can work out especially with how long this version of hyrule has existed. (of course i also still think the devs just want to avoid this timeline stuff and just make a new one, so this is just more of a fun way for me to make sense of it)
I never felt comfortable with how the 3 Four Sword games place in timeline. That said...
I think BotW and TotK take place in an alternate timeline set after Skyward Sword. Basically the past events shown in TotK mirror Ganon's backstory from Ocarina, basically being nearly the same as well as another origin story.
Hyrule warriors is my explanation for all the timelines merging back into one again.
My current headcanon: *Adult Timeline*
Hyrule had been completely forgotten by everyone, the only thing that survived was the name "Hyrule" and the Triforce logo, although it was no longer associated with that all-powerful object. It was only the symbol of the royal family, which is why no one, not even the Zonai, knows about the Triforce.
Another thing, the Rito exist in that timeline, and so do the Koroks. Why did the Zoras in The Wind Waker become Rito instead of adapting to the ocean? In reality, they did adapt. Some of the Zoras adapted to the depths, which is why in Breath of the Wild, the Zoras resemble more like sharks or manta rays, saltwater fish rather than freshwater fish.
After playing this game it really does feel like breath of wild was a reboot and they just don't belong in the same timeline as the previous series.
There's tons of reinterpretations of old tropes and enemies and ideas that we see that it makes more sense to make this a brand new timeline with borrowed ideas and inspirations.
This is a good thing by the way.
I'm not upset about that I'm just saying it feels more like a reboot
@@Zinkolo I'm kinda pissed off because it's worse than what Disney did to George Lucas's Star Wars.
Actually, I believe that Rauru's time may be well before the time of Skyward sword. The Zonai technology looked super similar to the ones found in Lanayru Mining Facilities in SS (especially the power to reverse time, robots and the green-and-yellow color theme). In SS, the time when Goddess Hylia first sealed the Demise , there were no "Link"(a hero that wields the master sword), which is exactly what happened in The Imprisoning War, which there were apparently no "sword that seals the darkness" in Rauru's time.
A theory I haven’t seen yet is that TOTK could be the actual story of what happened in Hyrule, and all the previous games are ‘legends’ of Zelda, with different interpretations. Kind of like a soft reboot for the franchise. Without going into spoilers, I’ve seen a lot of parallels closely resembling to the story of other games.
Thats what I've been saying! I mean, its literally called "the legend of zelda". Legends are literally real events or phenomia that happened but they have a great amount of mythological influence on them to the point where only some elements of them are true while others are false. Applying that same logic here, we can deduce that SOME of the things from past zelda games are true while OTHERS are false.
and when the next game comes out, you'll say BOTW and TOTK are just legends as well?
@@pheonixowl999 No, because I don't think BOTW is legend either. I think both BOTW and TOTK are real true parts of Hyrule's real history, with all past games being simply legend and myth. Of course, between these two games there SEVERAL unanswered questions, which really irriates me.
So basically we play as "fake" stories in all the other games. Not a fan of that theory lol
@@11sonicspeed It's almost as if the series is called "The LEGEND of Zelda"
11:02 White Sword you say? Oh, now I'm know I'm getting old. I think that's supposed to be the second sword you get in Zelda 1 back in the good old 80's when I played it as a kid. Perhaps just a nice easter egg but could be fit into a unified timeline theory.
Average continuity fans: NOOOO THIS ITEM CONTRADICTS CANNON NOOOO!
Average no-restrictions enjoyers: Wow, cool items from past games. Brings back fond memories :)
ive seen many people say that the founding of hyrule in TOTK is after skyward sword, which makes no sense because the calamity would have existed from skyward sword to BOTW
I think TOTK can fit fine enough into current timeline. In fact, one of the more reputable Zelda wiki updated their timeline with events related to TOTK. I’m going to try and explain how I interpret TOTK fitting into the timeline.
Zonai Rauru descends from sky during the Era of Prosperity. The Zonai were probably living in the sky like the people of Skyloft but away from them, and the Zonai probably also made those robots that were in Skyward Sword. At this point Hyrule was a area of land with several settlements existed, but it wasn’t until Sonia and Rauru that this was made onto a true kingdom. TOTK Ganondorf does his thing, gets sealed by Rauru. This is why for a fairly long amount of time following the Era of Prosperity, Ganon just doesn’t show up (i.e. The Force Era, Hero of Men, Minish Cap, Four Swords).
In the first few cutscenes, it seems like TOTK Ganondorf’s body was being “reactivated” in a sense, almost like it was braindead, and that the gloom was going back into him. It looks like he’s not exactly dead, but not really alive either until the hand falls. My interpretation of this is that eventually, after centuries, the “spirit” or hatred of Demise reincarnates into OoT Ganondorf and leaves TOTK Ganondorf’s body under the castle (and will return later).
Now some might say that having two Ganons at one time doesn’t make sense. But there literally has been an instance of two Ganons being around at the same time. In BOTW, Calamity Ganon was in Hyrule Castle and TOTK Ganondorf was far below it. Either they are one in the same, meaning my idea about the soul being able to leave the sealed body to do other things is valid. Or they are different, meaning their was two different Ganons around at the same time.
Some also might say that the Calamity is just a mindless puppet. However, Calamity Ganon isn’t totally mindless. It is referred to as cunning by multiple characters for knowing about the Guardians and Divine Beasts, and being able to control them. I know there is a mistranslation related to Dark Beast, but regardless Calamity still chose to turn into Dark Beast, meaning that it cannot be that mindless if it is able to make that choice. And remember, every incarnation of Ganondorf is Ganon in the main Zelda universe.
(This could also lend credence to the theory that two Links can be alive at once i.e. The Hero of Worlds and Gramps, who is very likely Link from ALttP.)
Onto the topic of both Raurus. Twilight Princess talks about the Era of Chaos (which was before the Era of Prosperity), where the Interlopers tried to invade the Sacred Realm to get to the Triforce. To protect the Triforce, someone named Rauru built a new Temple of Time at the location of the Sealed Temple, around the pedestal holding the Master Sword - the location of the only entrance to the Sacred Realm. He placed the Triforce in the Temple of Light and sealed off the Sacred Realm.
This can be explained one of two ways. First, the Rauru that sealed away the Triforce is the Zonai one who did so while coming into very limited contact with Hylians. This Zonai Rauru is different from the OoT Rauru. The second possiblity is that there was two Raurus around. The Hylian one that sealed away the Triforce and was then in OoT. And then the Zonai king. Personally, I think the second one is more plausible. Also, I don’t remember if this totally true, but I think somewhere it is said that Rauru sealed himself away in the Sacred Realm along with the Triforce? It would explain how he lived so long for a Hylian and matches more with the second possibility.
Now, I’m personally of the opinion of that the three timelines at some point merge and lead to the events of 10,000 yrs before BOTW. What is my source? My source is that I made it the fuck up lol. In all seriousness, I feel like if they can get away with the downfall timeline existing without ever explaining it in a game, this is probably an equally viable scenario.
Then, after Calamity Ganon is defeated in BOTW, the spirit of Demise re-enters TOTK Ganondorf’s body and the current events of TOTK happen.
On the Rito, I think it’s very possible that after the Era of Prosperity, they either went extinct or went to live up in the mountains away from Hylians.
My idea is that after the last game of the fallen hero timeline, Hyrule eventually crumbles. This leads to it being refounded by Rauru.
I remember watching a game theory video on the timelines where a game that Nintendo doesn’t consider cannon is the key to solving the timeline issue with botw. Because of this video, my personal head cannon for the timeline is after the previously mentioned game, a new hurdle is founded and then the events of the botw and totk section of the time line take place as you described on the video.
So I'm going to post my explanations of the goddess sword and other amiibo items.
Amiibo items are basically replicas created by Misko, he was fascinated with old legends and decided to replicate items from both history and myths alike. From "Creating a Champion" we know that events from old timelines have faded away with time and it's hard to tell which events are historical fact and which are fairy tale, it only makes sense that replicas and fanatics like Misko exist. There's a reason why Majora's Mask and the Fierce Deity have no powers in BOTW and TOTK.
Some of Misko treasures include the Fierce Deity, Tingle set and the Awakening set, the latter confirming the theory given the toy look of the set. Other sets are found in the Depths and even though we can't tell for sure if Misko made them it's safe to assume he or someone else did, from everything we know there's more proof of them being fakes than the real deal.
It's also interesting to note that the Yiga clan made their own version of the thunder helm, this is not directly related to the Misko theory but it goes to show that replicas are already a thing in TOTK.
This makes more sense than actually trying to explain how the Goddess Sword is canon in TOTK, yes I know the sword is given to you by the Mother Goddess statue herself but I think we need to keep in mind that not every amiibo items is the real deal in TOTK and BOTW.
King uploaded 🤤🥹
My personal theory on this is that the game has two paths:
BOTW-TOTK now are a brand new timeline which takes in some alternate reality after skyward sword. Similar events to some games happen but not in the same way.
Or that Skyward sword happened and then some event lead to hyrule not able to fully form and some tribal war and event happened which prevented the Hylians from uniting until the Zoni appeared and Raru unites the Hylian tribes into one Kingdom. At this point for whatever reason the triforce and Hylia are more myth and almost forgotten, the triforce only being an important symbol without meaning or perhaps a forgotten meaning to most.
The past events with time-travel zelda happen and then with Raru's death the kingdom may fall apart again or fall into a civil war which eventually leads to the creation of the Sheika who use old Zoni tech and the tech Zelda brought back and likely help the new Hyrule king in keeping the Kingdom Stable. I think it would likely be here the Triforce makes a re-appearance in importance and is possibly found, leading to the events of the Twilight Princess mentioned where the Twili tribe rebel and are sent to the twilight realm. With the old Gods re-established and remembered and Hyrule formed again the games after skyward sword all take place and then the timeline unites with BOTW. Also this has to be the first ganondorf in the timeline and a different man than the one we see before. IDk what that all means but maybe the other ganons are connected to him.
See there is an issue with TOTK and the fact that Raru doesn't even think of a master sword from his timeline, a hero, or even the triforce at all. These absence feel significant. And it HAS to be after Skyward sword with where Zelda goes to because Hyrule does not exist in Skyward sword. Since it shows the first king of Hyrule and its foundation than it wouldn't work to happen before Skyward sword. Plus no Goddess sword, Hylia or Demise himself. It has to be at some point after Skyward Sword and I feel there is some reason why the Triforce just isn't seen nor a hero or the Blade in that time.
I don’t think the items from other games you can collect have any timeline relevancy, nor did the devs intend for them to be. We’ve had things like the Majora’s Mask item in A Link Between Worlds or Ballad of Gales obtained in Wind Waker is also in Twilight Princess, etc. It’s just that both BotW and TotK have gone all out with it for the sake of fan service. I can’t see the devs saying “Let’s put these in the game to give timeline indications”. I see them going: “Oh cool, let’s throw in the goddess sword or Ravio’s Hood! People will remember those from other games!”. That’s especially true for the Link’s Awakening tunic, referencing the graphics of the remake and not that Link’s canonical appearance we see in the animated cutscenes.
also majoras mask(the item) was created ages ago, and was sealed away till the happy mask salesman found it. its creation predates the timeline split, so the same item should exist in all timelines. The child timeline is just the one timeline, where skullkid stole the mask and set off the events of mm. in the other timelines, ganon taking over prevents the mask from being stolen. same goes for many other artifacts, that get spotlight a game set in one timeline. the wind waker should also exist in the child and fallen timelines, but since the great sea doesnt exist in those timelines, link wouldnt get much use out of it.
@@proclarushtaonasat Yeah I’m aware of the mask and its history. Other items also don’t necessarily need to be timeline exclusive either. Or my Ballad of Gales example. I was mainly pointing out this sort of thing had been done before mildly, but that BotW and TotK amped it up to a massive scale. I think, especially with the goddess sword and Link’s Awakening outfit, we can write it off as fan service and not anything to do with the actual lore.
Mattison is 6. They said at that age, Vai have to grow up in Gerudo Town away from Voe in her questline. I did it yesterday so it's fresh on my mind.
I just figure that Hyrule's been re-established as "new" many times by now, so the previous events happened well enough. Certain things survive previous cycles as well. The Deku Tree probably would never tell Link or Zelda how many times he's seen it happen before. It just boggles my mind why a bunch of gods and demons and such would fight over this "sacred" square of land, when that obviously isn't the whole part of the world they are on and you can see other landmasses stretching off for miles. The Three Goddesses just love re-rolling the dice to see what happens "THIS TIME", and leave ones like Hylia to deal with it and watch her descendants of her blood (that survive and re-establish Hyrule again and again) struggle against an evil that won't let them be.
My personal head canon involves a Game theory video from a few years ago. In that video the theory is the first Hyrule Warriors fused the three main timelines together creating a new “soft reboot” timeline where BOTW is the sequel to all of them which is why there are Easter eggs to incompatible Zelda games throughout Hyrule. The events of the previous games aren’t forgotten but, so much changed after this event that Hyrule’s history before it is only vaguely known in-universe.
I have a theory where 10,000 years is an over exasperation [due to oral tradition] and instead it was only 1000 years from the last great calamity
honestly the problem with BOTW or TOTK is that it only makes sense if the first Hyrule warriors is cannon with the strict timeline because there is the merging of all three timelines. and we see important places in BOTW like the ruins of arbiters grounds which is where the mirror linking the twilie and the hyliains together was held. i think that what TOTK and BOTW are is a convergence point of all the timelines for marketing and other purposes based off land marks and other findable objects. in the future i would like games to in the 100 year gap between the normal timeline and the convergence as i have been calling it.
Great video, and yeah it seems like the timeline is being scrapped. I think they realized it will only stunt further stories if they have to abide to the rules of a strict timeline.
My interpretation is that BOTW is the convergence of the timeline because Tears of the Kingdom future has to happen in order for Tears of the Kingdom past to happen.
Basically, if Zelda goes back in time, before the OoT split, she has to return to her era which is TOTK no matter what. She can't just come back to a whole different time. If BOTW is different in the child and fallen timeline, she'd be going back to a completely different era, that didn't result in her being sent back. Rules of time travel I guess? It makes BOTW and TOTK constants in the end of each timeline. Perhaps the seperate items from all timelines are a result of this seamless convergence, or maybe there was a grand event that converged all 3 timelines. The latter sounds more exciting.
I hope the next mainline original Zelda game also takes place in BotW and TotK’s timeline, it doesn’t even have to be like them, it could be 2D or 3D-linear.
@Polyps conglomeration Its basically confirmed that the next mainline zelda game will follow the open world formula.
I don't mind it, but I hope nintendo gets the help of other studios to help create 2d mainline games
Crazy theory, but maybe the events in OoT where like a dragon break like in elder scrolls. All happen but all converge on one timeline. SS Zelda and Link could be the ancestors to Sonia and with people coming down from the Sky could of been the Zonai.
I'm surprised that you didn't mention ganondorf in the past, some of the memories directly retell the events of ocarina of time related to him in a contradictory way, so there must be at least two ganondorfs, either in parallel timelines or one appearing millenia after the other
my head canon is that all these things happened when an offscreen merge of all three timelines and games individually took place so a shirt ripped in one game that was fixed in another you could still find the ripped one this is how I would explain the white sword of the sky When the timelines merged the had to remake the kingdom because the world would definitely be in chaos also the depths could be the old games mixed up because there are so many versions of hyrule and totk hyrule is the remade hyrule that rose above the others I have no idea how the gods/goddess’s would work
I've thought a lot about possible theories regarding which timeline Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom fall under and here are my full thoughts. Beware, this is going to be a really long read as I'm compiling ALL my theories I've had on this. Will try to summarize the less important theories.
Fallen timeline:
To me, it seems impossible that BotW/TotK fall under the fallen timeline. First of all, the events of the Imprisoning War prior to A Link to the Past are almost entirely different to the events of the Imprisoning War in TotK, and it's unlikely this same war would have repeated itself to some degree within the same timeline. Secondly, as far as we know in the Fallen Timeline, the Zora went extinct, meaning there's no possible way for the Zora and the Rito to coexist within BOTW. There's also too many references to the Adult/Child timeline that make this timeline seem like the least likely.
Child Timeline:
My original theory prior to TotK was that BotW falls under the Child Timeline, and the Child Timeline alone. The main reason was that I believed the Ganondorf Corpse was Twilight Princess Ganondorf, and I didn't think it was reasonable to assume the timelines have merged. Even the Rito's existence of being part of the Child Timeline can be explained by the constant freezing of Zoras Domain, which could have meant that some of the Zora fled to the snow peaks near the domain and evolved into the Rito. This is supported by the fact that the Rito currently live in snowy peaks, instead of a volcanic mountain like they did in Wind Waker. Not to mention, we do see in Twilight Princess that Prince Ralis runs away to Kakariko Village in search of his mother, so it's possible that some of the Zora fled to Kakariko Village as well, and founded a new home near the Lanayru province, which explains why Zora's Domain in BotW is in a different location. The Koroks existence can also be explained the same way they came to be in Wind Waker, which was that the Kokiri children fled the forest and turned into Koroks.
Timelines merged:
We know there are references to all three timelines, not just Easter Eggs, but canonically confirmed references. For instance, the existence of the Rito and Koroks from the Adult Timeline, the Mirror of Twilight and Arbiters Grounds from the child timeline, and the Lynels from the Fallen timeline (though TotK proves that they were created by Ganondorf the Demon King). However to say the timelines merged is still a hard claim to make. BotW is set so far into the future, so much so that in the game we learn that they fought against Calamity Ganon 10,000 years before BotW. Not Ganon, CALAMITY Ganon, that's how far into the future we are in. Most people believe that it's so far into the future that the differences between each timeline have faded, however I feel like that's just too lazy of an explanation. However, given the fact that the events of the Imprisoning War occurred in a different way in TotK, it's definitely possible that every major event from each timeline eventually happened in it's own way over time. For example, the Great Flood could have happened in it's own way prior to BotW. It's definitely possible, and TotK does suggest this, however I do feel it is too lazy of an explanation.
Alternative Timeline:
Another theory suggests that BotW and TotK actually take place in a separate timeline, and given the fact that there is an unexplained paradox in Skyward Sword, this theory isn't too far fetched aside from ONE problem. The theory suggests that because in Skyward Sword, Demise was defeated twice, once in the present after Link wished upon the Triforce to crush Demise with the Goddess Statue, and once in the past after he beat Demise in a duel, this would have created an alternative timeline. The timeline in the present where Link returns to can be the main timeline that leads into the other three, however the timeline of the past is the Timeline that lead to BotW. The problem with this is... It's impossible. When Link defeats Demise in the past, he seals his spirit within the Master Sword and brings that Master Sword, along with the curse, back to the present. This means the timeline Link defeated Demise in, no longer has Demise in it, so it's impossible for Demise to have reincarnated into Ganondorf.
Now, the ultimate theory. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom actually takes place in the Adult Timeline.
Heres why:
Leading into Tears of the Kingdom, I had many questions:
Is Link part of the Knight's bloodline?
Where is the Triforce?
Which version of Ganondorf is the corpse?
Will it end the Demises Curse?
Initially at the end of the game, I had none of those questions answered, but rather I was left with more questions. We learn at the start of the game that prior to the events of Tears of the Kingdom, there was a great war against The Demon King and the Seven Sages, known as the Imprisoning War. At first, this sounds familiar, because the Imprisoning War did in fact happen in the Fallen Timeline, however, this war is nothing like the Imprisoning War we know.
This version of the Imprisoning War has three major differences to the Imprisoning War in the Fallen Timeline:
1. The original Imprisoning War occurred after Link was defeated in Ocarina of Time, which was an already established Hyrule, however this Imprisoning War occurred during the beginning of Hyrule.
2.In the original Imprisoning War, Ganondorf, the Demon Thief became Ganondorf the Demon King after claiming the Triforce for himself, and using it to sieze the ultimate power, however, in this Imprisoning War, Ganondorf did not use the Triforce to become the Demon King. In fact the Triforce is not mentioned once in either Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom.
3.King Rauru has no recollection of who Link is, so this Imprisoning War did not take place after Link was defeated by the same Ganondorf that was sealed, which is the story of the original Imprisoning War.
So how on earth is this all possible? At first I was pulling my hair out as it made no sense, but after revisiting the timeline, I think I finay found something that makes sense (until Nintendo flips the script again and makes me rethink my life choices). But, what if both Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom took place in the ADULT TIMELINE?
The only explanation is that King Rauru was not the founder of Hyrule, but the founder of New Hyrule, as in Spirit Tracks. This is the only thing I can think of that makes sense.
Breath of the Wild takes place so far into the future, where the stories of the previous games are merely forgotten myths. The only way this is would be possible is if some catastrophic event destroyed any piece of history linking back to the previous games, AKA, The Great Flood. King Rauru being the first King of Hyrule is only possible if the land of Hyrule was not the original Hyrule, but the land of a new Hyrule, similar to that in Spirit Tracks! We know there's no named king in Spirit Tracks, but rather Anjean, the member of the Lokomo, is the one who takes a role of leadership. Guess what happens to the Lokomo after Spirit tracks? According to the official timelines, they return to the Heavens, which is where they may have become the Zonai!
Rauru of the Zonai then returns to New Hyrule and begins the Monarchy, starting the Hyrule we know in Tears of The Kingdom. This explains each of the unanswered questions I had stated in the beginning.
Rauru doesn't know who Link is because there is no more Knight's bloodline! In Wind Waker, the Knight's bloodline went extinct because the Hero did not exist in that timeline.
The existence of the Triforce is unknown and forgotten because after King Daphnes used the Triforce, the pieces were scattered across the Great Sea and were lost. The Triforce is never mentioned in Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom, though they still share it's symbol as it's been passed down with the Master Sword.
As for the version of Ganondorf, it is a new born Gerudo Warrior, similar to that of Ocarina of Time. After Wind Waker, Ganondorf was merely killed, however Link never faced the Ganondorf the Demon King, unlike in the Fallen Timeline and the Child Timeline, so the spirit of Demise (The Demon King) was allowed to reincarnate once again.
As for it ending the Demises Curse, we will never know. In the Fallen Timeline, Ganon is defeated once and for all, as is in the Child Timeline, the Demon King is also defeated by Link using the Four Sword. With the Demon King now finally being defeated in the Adult timeline, there's no telling if that's what will end the curse. Demise meeting his demise in all three timelines.
Last but not least, there's another core piece of evidence that supports this and that's, the Depths. The Depths appears to be an entirely separate Hyrule underneath the current Hyrule. This would be possible if this was the original Hyrule that was flooded prior to Wind Waker. Since Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom take place so far into the future, the depths has little to nothing left that resembles the original Hyrule.
The loop theory is merely just history repeating itself. Ganondorf being reborn as a Gerudo Warrior who seeks the land of Hyrule mirrors what happened in the past that was long forgotten, however this time, Ganondorf cannot win with the Triforce, so he must find another way.
I know it's a long read, but for anyone interested, those are my thoughts on the placement of Tears of the Kingdom.
Do a video about how the fall of natiz germany affected the tears of the kingdom release
It made the game come out faster due to war generally slowing down everything non war related
yo wtf
@@marv5393 Zelda fans if you question any aspect of the recent games lore.
what also makes it complicated is that items like the majoras mask and ravios hood could theoretically appear in all timelines instead of the specific game of majoras mask etc. as termina just hasnt been visited by a link yet, but the mask still exists. same with lorule but tbh i cant tell if either termina is even a real realm. or if lorule is just the sacred realm or something
Yeah, they seem to have a lot of alternate worlds with the examples you gave, the Twilight Realm, and even dream worlds like with the Wind Fish. Majora's Mask even has a cameo in Link Between Worlds, though items like Midna's helmet (based on her imp form) would need to come from a very specific series of events, so idk what to make of that
I honestly still think that the best answer has to be that the three timelines merge during the events of the original Hyrule Warriors with Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom happening thousands of years after that
That's a really interesting approach. Making Hyrule Warriors canon could actually work into that kind of..
9:26 another big problem is that Herr is described the FOUNDING of the kingdom of hyrule. It's very much implied that this is the beginning of that kingdom and its first king... so how could old Hyrule of the other games have existed before the past shown in totk?
Well, I have 2 different potential explanations for the goddess sword
The first is actually just a retread of your option 1, it's a new sword. The reason they say it was said to have once been wielded by a hero in the sky isn't because it's the exact same sword but because in spirit it is the weapon wielded by them. It's like all the champions weapons, all of them talk about having been used by the champions, but it's not as if they used that specific weapon you carry.
The other explanation I have is far more out there and has a lot less legs to stand on. A 4th option: it is the same sword at an earlier point in time.
This is based on pre-release theories that the Zelda timeline could potentially form a loop, and that TotK may not just be at the end of the timeline, but also the beginning. I don't see much disproving this theory after release however I also don't see much proving it either. Only small little details that could instead just be fun Easter eggs, but I think it's interesting food for thought!
my interpretation is that because so much time has passed that history just eventually converged on another nexus while the pasts may have been different , the timeline eventually came to a point where it can branch off again if it ever did so , going back to when hyrule was founded does add in another paradox but thats yet to be addressed. its essentially a reboot
At this point I feel like they’re just trolling us with the timeline
On the sword of the sky: my personal headcanon is that this is mearly the prototype for what would be the Goddess sword, and the legend got mixed up with it due to time passing. Sorta like how everyone say the sword in the stone was Excalibur, but in the original story Arthur gets Excalibur from the lady of the lake, while the sword from the stone was a totally different sword.
The thing that confuses me the most is the fact a Rito was part of the founding of Hyrule in the past, which on the timeline would put it before windwaker, when the Rito are introduced
Wouldn’t that make it… after?
Hey I have an amazing idea! Since OOT has Zelda as a sage and breaks the timeline into three, TOTK should bring the timeline back together because Zelda is a sage in that one as well. Also I think the start of TOTK would come at the start and the end of TOTK would come after BOTW. 😊
when i first got the goddess sword, i immediately assumed that nintendo are just fucking around and having fun because they knew we were all gonna lose our minds over it lol
The only thing that makes sense to me would be that some type of event occurred to converge the timelines. Like maybe after so many thousands of years of fighting each other throughout time and space and different realities starting all the way back from the original incarnation of evil (Demise), Link and Ganon engaged in a fight outside the confines of time and space that was so violent it reset the timelines basically and that’s why the timelines converge and why the physical layout of the land resembles the way things were in skyward sword. Then, when the zonai founded hyrule it was actually re-establishing the kingdom that once existed. However they didn’t even know this because any memories and knowledge of the history of the world had been lost in the convergence event. Then some of the unexplained reoccurrence of past items and locations and names can be explained simply by “history repeats itself” as it was set in motion by Demise way back when.
The White Sword of the Sky is NOT the one that turns into the Master Sword. It's a replica of it created by the goddess statues. This is pretty much stated by the quest.
I feel like Botw was definitely made with the intent of being connected to Skyward Sword, with the reincarnating Demise/Ganon, but now with Totk it feels like they’re changing their minds and separating Botw and Totk from the rest of the timeline as they kind of retold the story of Skyward sword in Totk and changed Hyrule’s early history. As for the other game references I think they’re either just non-canon Easter eggs, or the events of other games are just legends in the new timeline that are only partially factual
short answer: it doesnt. good day
I got the distinct impression that the Zonai were aliens from outer space along the lines of the 12th planet. They were experimenting with ufo stuff in their early brainstorming concept art for BotW alongside link riding a motorcycle and skateboard; they were all encouraged to implement elements that had never appeared in a Zelda game before. So maybe the Zonai were not living in the Sky but came from another planet?
My PERSONAL Timeline theory.
Distant past: People live on land and worship Hylia. Demise arrives. Humans are pushed onto the sky.
SS: You know the deal. However, at the end of the game some people decide to stay behind on skyloft. (REMEMBER THIS)
[Insert literally the entire rest of timeline here]
Far, FAR, future: Some sort of reincarnation of demise actually truly successfully destroys the Kingdom of Hyrule, however, just before all the races are wiped from the earth, the Zonai, who are actually the Skyloftians, who over eons evolved into Zonai (wind Waker logic goes hard) successfully defeat this incarnation and eventually reestablish the kingdom of Hyrule. THIS IS HOW THE KINGDOM OF HYRULE CAN BE FOUNDED BY THE ZONAI WITHOUT CONTRADICTING THE TIMELINE.
TotK ancient past: ~TIMELINE LOOP ENDPOINT!~, Rauru, seal blah blah blah
???: [Potentially infinite numbers of calamities go here]
10,000 years before BoTW: Sheikah develop tech, calamity is successfully defeated
100 years before BoTW: We all know what happens here
BoTW: Here too
ToTK: ~TIMELINE LOOP STARTPOINT!~ (Does this mean there were always two Zelda’s simultaneously as well as two master swords during BoTW?) Anyways, game ends, timeline loop REMAINS UNRESOLVED
Post ToTK: I don’t even know, but I’ll say that Link the faces of evil goes here because Nintendo isn’t putting it anywhere
About the amiibo thing. I play a different language version of the game and this is something the game says about the evil spirit armor ( Yes I know it's not actuall amiibo armor but it still has the same timeline problem as the rest)
"Haunted by an evil spirit of another dimension and ancient time, this piece shall serve you as protection from now on."
In my mind it's either a convergence of timelines since hyrule warriors or a parallel universe. So the convergence could make sense in the fact that gannon/gannondorf has somehow done many things while also still being sealed by Rauru, and there are little hints and stuff of those previous events. But they're almost like shadows, maybe like a mandella effect.
I also think the whole "10,000 years ago" thing is just a guess, I think they dont know for sure because of the weird time things that have happened, and I would guess they probably don't have carbon dating. So because of all the evidence historians have found of all these crazy historical events (from previous games), but somehow the sheikah stuff is older, they've decided that it happened 10,000 years ago, when in reality it was likely a lot more recent.
What potentially is about that old, is the Zonai stuff, but maybe it too isnt even that old, and just appears to be since they have to account for so many historical events happening in such a short time. My reasoning for that is that some of the ruins seem to be based on Mayan (or similar) ruins in real life, many of which are only 3000-4000 years old. Which kinda checks out, if you have to smash 3x 3000-4000 years of history together and make sense of it (without carbon dating), it would look like 9000-12000 years woth of events.
Idk, there are probably some flaws in this idea, which is why I also don't mind the parallel universe theory, but it's what makes the most sense for me at the moment.😊
The way I place botw and totk is that they’re convergent timelines (I think that’s the right term). Where it’s its own timeline where the other timelines bleed into/converge with it to leave their own elements on it. Hence why the throwback outfits/weapons are present, and iconic locations like the ranch,etc are also present. It also explains the different history of hyrule and gannon taking power, and the removal of the triforce. I think I worded this explanation right but incase I didn’t here is a quick summary. Botw and Totk are their own timeline/timeline split where the other timelines converge into it and leave their imprints/items/elements/story in them. Explains the different founding of hyrule,Gannon taking power,etc.
Hey V-Limit , just remember that in skyward sword, there's actually a timeline break. (If demise dies in the past, why would the goddess statue fall in the present if there's no Demise to crush?)
I'd love to talk timelines, as I think skyward sword maybe help explain a lot, as I think that botw and totk are actually on an entirely separate timeline.
Trying to make the whole zelda timeline fit together sounds like the pixar theory haha. I think its clear there is no official timeline until they include the newest two games into it where it officially belongs
The fact that the Triforce was missing from ToTK and BoTW gave me the idea that both games take place inside whatever realm Gannon was sealed into from four swords. In that timeline, the triforce of power left him when link stabbed him in TP. Think about the seven maidens that sealed him... Now look at the seven statues in gerudo desert. There's also no mention of any of the lore that took place from any of the other times Gannon was defeated that lines up with any of the three existing timeline splits. The time line is a mess but if you assume both of these new games aren't taking place in the same realm as the other games, it clears a lot up.
My theory is that the timelines just merged at some point, I don’t know how or care but it’s really the only probable solution.
Also, I believe the era Zelda is sent back to IS the founding of Hyrule from a while after Skyward Sword. There is conflicting information, like the Rito, but I'm willing to bet the Rito in the new games are different than the ones in The Wind Waker.
Agreed. Thank you! Having them exist during Hyrule’s founding would simply mean that when the Zora evolve in Wind Waker, they simply take up the name and/or become part of that tribe. It’s an easy explanation, and we’ve seen Nintendo pull similar things before to explain their retcons. These Rito seem different, (maybe Loftwing evolved? Just a theory) and none of their history or lore in these two recent games have tied them to the Zora at all.
I ultimately think that the Goddess Sword and Fierce Deity set are likely replicas. They're still important timeline tools since the original has to exist to inspire a replica, but it doesn't ruin everything. I more or less agree that Hyrule was refounded after the previous zelda games which is where the ancient past here takes place. I think that the timeline placement thing is likely a timeline convergence where enough time has past (over 20,000 years) to the point that every timeline ends up in more or less the same place and at that point is basically one timeline because they're all synced up, or that the timelines were merged in a more physical sense, which would explain all the items. It's also possible that it's a combination of the two, where a sort of pruning took place. Once the natural laws of Nayru (continuity, in this case) wouldn't be disrupted by the timelines being put back into one, they simply were. There are some minor, unimportant references to this merge, but overall it was quiet.
I don't even care about the greater timeline, I just don't get how they abandoned BOTW's continuity with TOTK.
How many characters do you run into that have no memory of Link whatsoever? Yet certain characters DO remember him?? Ugh
Botw takes place in the future of the past where SS Link went back and defeated demise, then went back to his own time. In that timeline, the hylians take much longer to reach the surface, and the kingdom of Hyrule is founded at the same time Ganondorf comes to be (concurrent with OoT in the other timeline).
With the timeline put FSA after TP, I thought putting the classic games afterwards made sense given how it’s introducing a blue hog Ganon with a story that fits ALttP’s intro after the previous Ganon was gone. (Also having FS just as a prelude to FSA sounds simpler, but then the timeline feels like it was cut up last moment to make the individual conceptual storylines simpler)
With the timeline connections, slotting the original Hyrule Warriors in could stitch things together.
The story has rifts across time temporarily open up & the expansion adds a rift to the other timeline. Depending on how long they were open for, there would be a good degree of records of everything, improving historic understanding of those particular eras & maybe reintroducing some architectural & cultural designs (Clothing, weapons, maybe those who didn’t have that much time to look around only ended up making heavy records of locations as simple as old stables)
Cartographers could have recognised the similarities between the shape & distance between certain mountain tops and how they parallel the islands of what would initially seem to be a completely foreign but vast sea. (Although more so unlikely)
Everyone did return afterwards, but general residue & debris could have been left over and inadvertently left marks?
Altogether it makes the world of BotW (at least) a bit more understandable as a far off sequel to one long timeline that was inadvertently influenced by a tear in the very fabric of space-time.
(Also, Putting FPTRR before MC, RTBToL before FSA & TBT before WW as a chuckle)
With Skyward sword's time travel there's room for another timeline split, and it helps keep things a bit cleaner. In one branch the triforce kills demise and the goddess statue crashes to earth, in the other link slays demise and traps his essence in the master sword, while the triforce is cursed. BotW and TotK are the only games with goddess statues and the worship of Hylia, so it probably means they are in the timeline where the statue fell to earth. Any references to older games are explained away by things happening similarly but differently in this timeline. This ganondorf is a paralell ganondorf, and his seal leaking is what caused all the ganon panics inbetween the time of the ancient sheika and BotW.
If this does not happen in a parallel split the kingdom of hyrule gets wiped out so hard no one has ever heard of it until Raru makes a new one, and there are two imprisoning wars, and THREE different instances of a gerudo male being named ganondorf, and becoming ganon. That or we have two ganondorfs alive at the same time, one under the castle, and one doing OoT, depending on whether you think totk's past segments come before or after everything else.
Here is my take:
These two games take place in a parallel universe, which explains why Ganondorf has more or less the same plan as OoT’s Ganondorf. The Zonai are actually the sky people that lived in their universe’s skyloft, and when they came down, Rauru, the time sage founded the Hyrule kingdom and sealed the stones in the temple of time (just like Hylian Rauru did with the triforce in OoT’s universe)
Reminder Loyrule does exist, and Majora's mask was in Ravio's collections. The way that Link traveled between Dimension could lead one to believe it's possible to travel between the time lines or maybe, due to the events of a Link Between Worlds this had impact due to this Dimension hoping
"It is possible that although this tells a story of the founding of Hyrule, it could have history that's previously been destroyed too" -Fujibayashi himself
It takes place so far in the future that previous titles have fallen into myths and legends, even predating the zonai
idk why it couldn't just be that all the three timelines combine then over time the zoni or whatever invade, old hyrule hisotry is forgotten, then founding takes place, and past of totk which leads to botw then totk 4 yearsish after botw if that makes sense,
In regards to the items, I choose to believe that all the weapons/equip from other games aren't supposed to be considered and thought too hard over "fitting in to the timeline", despite people wanting to debate over it. I think it's more of a thing to be easter egg equipment originally made for amiibos and fun additions to pad equipment content, unrelated to the game's continuity itself. The fact that it was thrown in botw already means theres no way they couldn't also include those items in totk, so they kept it and added it in for fun extra content to collect.
There are some major clues that give hints as to what is happening in Tears of the Kingdoms story - its what's usually referred to as a dragon split... In other words certain events in time are fixed and will always happen - but how we get there is fluid and can change and be altered - this is why BoTW can sit at the end of the three timelines... Tears of the Kingdom sits at the end of 4 timelines though... Zelda's time-travel is both a closed loop and a paradox. At the beggining of the Game Ganondorf's corpse shouldn't be there... He only ends up being imprisoned by Rauru as a result of Zelda travelling back in time - in other words Zelda's time travel is predestined and it alters history... Link is now on an adventure in a Hyrule where the events of the timeline up to and including Breath of the Wild both happened and didn't happen.
I imagine that the zonai were simply a group that were found somewhere else within the sky islands in skyward sword, since we only see a small fraction of that sky world to begin with, who began to interact with the hylians, maybe they were even passively observing them like engigmatic observers using their technology, after the hylians began to come down from skyhold and settle down on the ground.
I am also personally a fan of the idea that the zonai are dragonoids, and not only that, were the race that hylia was appart of, as well as the original 3 elemental dragons before they eventually went and draconified themselves for whatever reason, making those three dragons from skyward sword and beyond all zonai
SPOILER WARNING
the sky islands in totk were raised after Gannondorfs Imprisonment specifically to keep Link safe. As for the three elemental dragons I think they are just the Goddesses watching over the world in the form of dragon spirits. We know from Botw that the elemental dragons are spirits, so I don't think they were draconified.
I always liked MatPat's Hyrule warriors theory, saying that even though Nintendo claims it's not canon Hyrule warriors allows for all the different timelines to mingle and displace items and people into whichever timeline that breath of the wild takes place in and allow for both the Zora and the Rito to exist simultaneously while each having their own histories
A common idea I've had for any time travel or multiverse theory is that time is magnetic. Over a long enough time, diverging timelines will eventually converge. Nature abhors a vacuum, after all. Most notably this is in the form of the heat death of the universe, but there's no reason it can't be earlier. To a much less serious extent: why else would we all play the game so drastically differently yet get the same ending? Or why, on the N64 games, changing the future in minor ways doesn't cause unpredictable butterfly effects. That's why I've always loved the theory that Botw and Totk are so far in the future that all events in all relevant timelines happened at some point.
As a side thing, I've never had a problem with the downfall timeline existing. Maybe there's tons of other downfall timelines we just haven't seen. Or, my favored explanation, the already broken timeline in Oot weakened spacetime in a way that facilitated another split. Wouldn't that contradict magnetic time? Maybe if it was a clean split, but it wasn't. Think about all the times you changed the future to solve a puzzle, planted a magic bean, or caused a bootstrap paradox with the song of storms. That moment in history wasn't just split in two, it was fractured.
My personal headcanon is that the first Hyrule Warriors game merged all the timelines together, and this timeline merge also affected the EVENTS of the past, and not just the people and landscape of Hyrule. The Sky civilizations from Skyward Sword ‘became’ the Zonai, the sages from Ocarina ‘became’ the sages of the Imprisoning War, etc.
I always understood BOTW as occurring as at a timeline convergence point far after every other Zelda game when the timelines somehow "collided." Ignoring amiibo entirely (and even ignoring the references that make up the names of all the map locations), there are some glaring things pointing in this direction. The biggest one for me was the presence of zora and rito simultaneously, when the former are said to have transformed entirely into the latter. TOTK goes a step further and throws most established lore out the window, but does so primarily by recognizing and then retconning a lot of it. We get bizarre moments like the game acknowledging Fi in the master sword (it even plays Fi's theme at one point in a cutscene), but we also seemingly replace the people of Skyloft with the Zonai and have them founding Hyrule. Ganondorf's design is clearly a reference with the red flowing hair to Demise, but we don't actually get Demise. "Rauru" is even replaced with a character named.... "Rauru." I've seen people try to square this timeline with the events of Skyward Sword and other games, but I honestly find it hard to buy into. I think it's a new timeline entirely. The question is whether this timeline stretches back to the beginning of the series or if there's some recognizable convergence point. Even if plot decisions were made out of laziness or a lack of care for the timeline, I truly hope that at some point they (maybe haphazardly) find a place for it.
honestly I just headcanon in my head that at some point before breath of the wild hyrule fell into a state where it literally crashed and burned and Rauru and Sonia went 'yo lets revive that old kingdom of Hyrule!!'
Proceeding to then launch the cycle back into motion and ruining everyones lives.
I need this video to pop off I need my claymation
I always thought it was the adult timeline, but thousands of years after Wind Waker. The seas somehow receded and the original kingdom of Hyrule was found by ancestors of the inhabitants of the Wind Waker isles. The Garudo, Gorons, and Zora aren’t found in Wind Waker; although I think they were just on separate islands much farther away than the scope of the game. The kingdom of the Zonai is established many years after all the tribes found their place within the newly dry lands. Ganondorf was killed in Wind Waker, so the Ganondorf we see is just a reincarnation many years down the line. The Zonai fight and seal away Ganondorf underneath Hyrule Castle in the flashbacks of Totk. Ganondorf is somehow able to bypass parts of the seal (through either the Triforce or Special Stone) and reincarnate versions of himself to attack the Zonai Hyrule. The kingdom is able to fight them back for a while, but eventually (through weakening of the kingdom over time) Calamity Ganon is eventually too much for the Zonai and they crumble, leaving the Sheika tribe the only ones who could fight it back and they defeat it. This leads them to create the Guardians and Divine Beasts for the next time Calamity Ganon returns, creating the backstory for BotW. Then all the random amiibo items and weapons are from link “somehow” being able to duplicate items from other dimensions to aid his quest and those are then carried over to different spots in TotK from either something happening in the time skip or the upheaval some how affected them.
Haven’t finished TotK yet so I have no clue if the ending to that game completely screws up this up at all lmao.
I think the events described in TOTK and BOTW bookend the entire timeline. The Zonai founded Hyrule, and after the timelines reconverged, Link and Zelda bring it to where it is now.
personaly i feel that the events of time traveld zelda led on a divergent timeline, one in which she did not apeer as ganandorf was successfully slain and the fracture of the secret stone he bound to his forehead as well as the imense mallace that he possessed led to the creation of demise overtime as a sort of shedding of an inferior shell, this then led to the creation of the sky islands as described in skyward sword, instead of the islands as shown in the tears of the kingdom game, which originally was ment as DLC content, which grew out of proportion as you can tell with a lot of minor dialog of the characters in botw and totk, that's what would make more sense to me