How Tears of the Kingdom Fundamentally CHANGED the Zelda Timeline!
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Maui explains his theory for how the new lore in Tears of the Kingdom changes the Zelda timeline we all know and love! #gambagoons #maui #zelda #timeline #tearsofthekingdom #theory #zeldatearsofthekingdom #zeldatheory #MadeWithMotionCanvas
Link to timeline:
drive.google.c...
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Wow, thankyou all so much for the overwhelming positive response to the video! But, the timeline does have a few issues as you guys have pointed out.
The big one being that in Skyward Sword the master sword is actually left in the past not the future. But instead of breaking my theory it allows me to go back to a previous idea I had but ultimately threw out. In the cursed timeline since the master sword already exists and has a Fi in it, I don't have to come up with a way for the goddess sword to be forged into the master sword. Rather the goddess sword sitting in skyloft, gives the zonai/picorri a white sword to forge the picorri blade out of. Also, this would mean a new master sword would have to be forged in the triforce timeline, which is supported by the statement in Twilight Princess that the master sword was forged by the ancient sages.
You should do an updated video with this info. But I love your timeline it still work There is one issue I have with the timeline thought and I have that issue with the Official Legend of Zelda 1 and 2. First were the Princes says all Princessess will be Zelda I know its canon lore but we all know why it was put in to justified the Zelda in Zelda 2 not being the same Zelda from Zelda 1 but being named Zelda. I kind of think Nintendo has moved away from this part of the lore. I would say if we keep the decree then a little more content. should be added sure its headcanon but that to keep with the Traditions of the Past. The other issues I have is No Master Sword I know it was not invented in real life till LTTP but story wise there needs to be a story as to why the Master Sword does not exist given the game's placement in the timeline. And I think I fixed that. The Master Sword Does exist but 1 of 2 things Either 1 Link could not wild it being just 10 years old. And such the Magical Sword was created. Given its the same sword Link has in Zelda 2. Or the Master Sword Transformed it self into a weapon for a child to be able to use. My first idea on it fits more but I like to think the Magicial Sword and the Master Sword do have some kind of conection
@@davidededeed except there is. If demise dies in the past, why have a statue fall in the present
I'd love to chat more about the time line, a lot of people don't acknowledge the timeline breaks (like 7 breaks) in skyward
@@davidededeed Yep SS is a self fulfilling loop a predestined set of events... Zelda goes to the surface and finds herself already sealed in the crystal... Its what Granny shows her to get her to go on the quest to the Skyview and Earth temples. You can see through the gap in the sealed temple early on that Zelda's crystal is there from the beginning. Meaning the quest is to break Zelda from that timeloop. The creation of the hero and the mastersword is Hylia's escape plan. Fi is made to be her replacement keeping the seal on Demise intact.
What about the Rito? Originally only part of one timeline due to the flood
even if this is unofficial, in my eyes, this feels more canon than the official timeline, the fact that the downfall timeline is actually all of the calamity’s does make a surprising amount of sense, and i’m surprised i never thought of it
It explains how the history of Ganon is also the one of Hyrule.
Or maybe it just doesn’t fit into the timeline. Clearly it has no relation to the original timeline even with reference from it. Botw and totk have to just me there own timeline that only makes sense in a new timeline.
@m_ron2742 but they can't fucking do that if they still want the skyward sword forging of the master sword to be cannon from what we know of the sword in tears of the kingdom,while everything else is just irrelevant. Allowing them to do whatever they want means they have the ability to make 2 more games about the same topic: the creation of the mastersword if they wanted. But I'm sure most pepole DONT want that and just want each game to have its own, unique topic without it being redundant. They got away with it in BOTW and totk because they redefined the whole zelda experience with strong mechanics, but we need more strong narratives that redefined the IP next for it to stay unique IMO. If they want to use gannondorf AGAIN next time, just make him a completely diffrent type of gannondorf whose alignment isn't the same or similar every game, have someone else be an evil individual.
@@Paradox1012 personally
I'd be fine with Ganon. Ganon has been incredibly under utilized in 3D zelda. and before people say "ThEy ArE tHe SaMe" nah fam. a true Ganon fight is a much different beast than any 3D ganondorf fight has been. From invisibility to teleportation to powerful magic to summoning darkness, the spear wielding mage thief Ganon could be amazing in 3D. not some oversized mindless beast that uses brute force, or is super slow and can't hit you, a powerful threat that requires positioning, strategy, and using the tools and experience you gained in your adventure to overcome.
The downfall timeline is "does make a lot of sense" belonging to "the calamity?"
This definitely feels like it fixes the timeline, no one brings up link's time travel in SS, but if oot's events happen in that timeline, this would make perfect sense imo
Yeah, when I was starting to make the timeline, I wanted to do the split at minish cap, but it wasn't working with how tears of the kingdoms story was unfolding. Then, when I started looking at Skyward Sword, it was staring me in the face lol.
i think abt that but then wouldnt demise not be able to curse the hero? bc he was like destroyed. I guess ganondorf doesnt HAVE to be connected to demise. Love this topic would love to discuss more
@@retlr_ He never cursed a hero it's just a translation difference. It is The grudge of the entire Demon Tribe always conflicting with the humans and Gods.
Ganondorf f is a successor of demise not a reincarnation of him.
As long as evil exist A Mortal can always transform into Demon Under certain circumstances.. Ganondorf Became the next Demon King..
@@retlr_ we also gotta remember that Demise is a being that conquered time which would likely make "his" curse one that transcends time.
@@elpopman2055 ah i see, thanks!
The only massive problem with this is how BOTW/TOTK's Hyrule clearly takes place in a land that was once flooded, due to the massive amount of rock salt you find everywhere, which highly likely wasn't an accident given the quality of the rest of the game's subtext. Also, the Rito only canonically appear in both Wind Waker and BOTW/TOTK, which also share a massive amount of thematic notes and little melodies near exclusively with The Wind Waker.
Both of these past two games clearly take place after a time convergence, long after Hyrule was left empty by the disappearance of the Great Sea, and was refounded by a new race, the Zonai.
They even stated in BOTW interviews that it takes place so long after the rest of the games that it's effectively a new timeline/convergence.
Finding rock salt all across the world is common. After all the world used to be one giant ocean when it was cool enough for liquid water to exist, and land masses appeared due to plate tectonic tectonic stuff. A great sea could be talking about that.
rock salt doesn't matter at all and the rito could have evolved again, they're clearly different than the rito in wind waker. perhaps these rito evolved from loftwings.
Well, they didn't say it's effectively a new timeline, but that it's so far ahead that it may as well be at the end of every timeline.
Also as of Twilight Princess HD didn't Nintendo add depictions of the Rito to Hylian art in that game?
My only issue with this is that with the "aspect of the hero" armor in totk turning link into the zonai hero that beat ganon, zonai should still be present, and not only as picori, for the calamity where Hyrule won with the help of the sheikah devices. Aside from that detail I really enjoyed the timeline overall.
I was going to state the same, however this is a problem with nearly every timeline, and in fact in between BotW and TotK
If Rauru and Mineru are the last zonai, and died in or right after the imprisoning war (so far in the past the mere myths are fading), HOW TF is the calamity hero, who battled a mere 10.000 yrs ALONG WITH SHEIKA TECH a zonai?
Maybe a Picori reverse evolved back into a zonai? A third zonai remained so in hiding? Is it Rauru's child? Idfk
yeah, and iirc that calamity was at least implied to be the first calamity. It also doesn't make sense to me how Ganon could reincarnate/revive when he's been sealed away by Raaru already, since I figured the reason for the Calamities is because his malice is leaking out as a result of being unable to reincarnate while sealed away.
I like some of the ideas put forth in the video, but it still feels like Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom don't quite fit in with the proposed timeline. I'd say its still more likely that something caused the timelines to merge back together, and the world/history of these two games is a result of the universe trying to account for everything that happened in each timeline in a way that makes sense as a combined whole
@@franciscoguinledebarros4429 Yeah, it is an annoying detail in the games' lore. One answer I can think of, that is in no way backed by any evidence, is that he would have been a product of a triforce wish. Either he was also manifested from a different era or the current hero was transformed into a form more adequate to challenge the calamity.
It could have been one of the descendants of Rauru and Sonia, since the royal family already has zonai DNA
In the end, what bothers me the most is that we may never have an official answer.
@@franciscoguinledebarros4429 they do say Zelda is a descendant of rauru and Sonia. Sonia is a hylian woman but rauru is full zonai. For her to be their descendant there must be hybrid hylian-zonai people descending from rauru and Sonia’s un-revealed children. Maybe when they say the hero was a zonai, they mean descended from zonai, AKA from rauru
Well zonai seems to be dogmen
Monish cap has the dogmen version of Darknuts maybe the zonai didn't all die out but all were corrupted by evil becoming Darknuts and maybe in the future one has conflicting thoughts about being evil
Finally SOMEONE talks about the possibility of TOTK not only being from a split around the time of Skyward Sword but also taking the entire Downfall Timeline with it. While I still think the rest of the timeline is the same besides the Downfall Timeline being basically moved, props for being the only other person I've seen suggest this theory because, while I can't say how much I believe it over the simple history repeating theory, it does seem to be heavily what the writers are trying to suggest.
I love the idea that the villains of the downfall timeline are the Calamities, and the Zonai descending from the heavens and founding Hyrule sounds like an alternate take on the ending of Skyward Sword, which can easily imply a timeline split. The only problem is that Link leaves the Master Sword in the past and it ends up in the present when he goes back, but Skyward Sword's time travel makes no sense in general so I can overlook it. Maybe the timelines were somewhat connected still and only fully split afterwards, idk.
This is a phenomenal theory! Gonna definitely start sporting this. I’ve always thought the Downfall Timeline wasn’t really a timeline, more of a consequence that doesn’t always happen. Plus there always was the weird time travel shenanigans in SS that wasn’t explored! Love it!
Fr this is a good theory !
That’s dumb. Why wouldn’t the downfall timeline be a thing?
It's basically just an alternate timeline
@@robertwyatt3912it's an alternate timeline there's one created everytime link dies
@@robertwyatt3912 Because it’s the only timeline out of the three that’s conditional. The child and adult timelines run congruent with one another. The DT only happens IF Link dies. Link can’t be both alive for the child and adult timelines and dead for the downfall.
Small correction. The "golden land" isn't a literal Landmass in hyrule. It's the sacred realm of the triforce, a whole different Dimension.
Is that different from the silent realm?
@@CreedoTheGamer Probably not. Since both are used in relation to the triforce. (Birthplace in every game/ Hidingplace in Syward Sword)
@@CreedoTheGamer I mean, how many parallel planes of existence does Zelda have already? IDK, but I think that it's so many that nobody should be surprised when physical manifestations and/ or bridges to them pop in and out, occasionally.
@@Kevin-jb2pv Yes
@@CreedoTheGamer the silent realm from skyward sword is more like an internal world with everyone like link in the game
Love the theory, I do see two potential issues with it revolving around Tear's Ganon. While everyone (including myself) treats Tears as a closed causality loop, there are two odd things that push against that notion. Rauru directly comments that there was a timeline where zelda did not appear, and more interestingly to me, Demon King Ganon says "I've seen this before!" right before being sealed, implying he maybe retained memory of a previous cycle of those events or timelines. Hard to say on that one without DLC, but its an extremely odd line.
Additionally, mummy-ganon views Tear's Link as the Link Rauru directly tells him about. This ones less of a pain point if the calamity ganons dont have a true connection to the original 'dorfs sapience, which does track with botws calamity, but it is worth noting. He doesn't seem to have memories of fighting heroes in the past (though if the ancient hero zonai was named Link then that safely can be sidestepped).
Im pretty sure the “I’ve seen this before” from Ganondorf is just referring to when puppet Zelda threw the dagger at Sonia and real Zelda used recall to reflect it
I think Rauru was just wrong when he suggested a timeline without Zelda already there. Learning that she came from the future suggests to him that the timeline changed, but Zelda did come from a timeline where she'd already gone back -- the murals covered by rocks in the opening cutscene are the same as what you see later, showing Zelda eating the stone and rising as a dragon.
Rauru was mistaken, that's it, the murals we see right at the beginning before she time travels AS WELL As the fact ganondorf mentions both zelda AND link by name when the seal breaks means that there probably wasnt a timeline zelda never arrived to the past-- (and even if there was it wouldn't make a difference as her being in the past doesn't actually change anything prior to botw or even the time after it her actions in the past only ever serve to shape what happens after she initially gets recalled back into time)
that timeline reveal was legit amazing, great work and even before you gave your reasons it just made sense. well done!
I love how the music crescendos right as the new timeline gets revealed, as if it's telling you "finally, someone fixed this damn thing"
I still like the dragon break theory( a blip in the timeline where multiple contradictory events happen and are all true once the dragon break ends. This comes from The Elder Scrolls games. [the concept was made to make all endings of daggerfall cannon]) where OoT Zelda accidently created a dragon break (hence the 3 timelines) and ToTk Zelda ended the dragon break at a later point of time.
Same, it makes more sense to me
what about age of calamity?
that creates two more timelines since zelda wouldnt likely be an adult nor alive in totk in the age of calmity timelkine
i see a lot about aoc being not canon but its all simply because it conflicts with canon
yea time travel does that
i think age of calmity easily can be canon and would just result in another timeline but for some reason people just choose to completely ignore it
@@thothgod420 itd be like a weird parallel timeline
@thothgod114 I think that, in order for the timelines to merge in Zelda, a long time has to pass. AoC happened to recently to merge back into the main timeline
@@thothgod420Age of Calamity is a timeline break that actually happens after the Dragonbreak closes.
I always thought the whole impa's bracelet thing in Skyward Sword was made SPECIFICALLY to say that there was no split and that it was all a perfect time loop.
This is an amazing theory, 100% fixes the whole Zelda timeline
Completely, even if the timeline is basically quite chaotic 😅
At least until the next game comes out and retcons a bunch of lore and breaks it again.
I'm thoroughly convinced the writers don't give a damn about the timeline at this point.
Nintendo has all but directly stated it's up to the fans to piece the games together if you really want a timeline, and anything can get retconned at any time.
@@wesnohathas1993they don't have writers in the traditional sense
@@derrickcrowe3888 And then we can say that half of the lore in that game is not important, and the other half either splits the timeline or just... adjusts some things. Like, where did new monsters come from in this direct sequel? They were always there, you just never had to fight them! It feels like many new monsters in TotK were meant to feel like they were always there, and people act like they were, so they didn't just appear after the upheaval
My only problem with this timeline is that in BotW we have facts that tell us that OoT happened, like the Ruto's name on the Zora's monuments, or Urbosa talking about Nabooru
You can always assume that the Ruto and Nabooru mentioned in BotW are different versions of them.
In fact, if we use the timeline in this video as a baseline, we could have OoT and the flashbacks from TotK happen at the same time, but in different branches, which would explain why Ganondorf's plan was very similar, AND It could even be that the nameless Gerudo and Zora sages from TotK, are actually Nabooru and Ruto from this branch.
I'm making all this up, but I think it's an explanation that could somewhat fit very well.
While I'm somewhat melancholic about having finished TotK, I now get to revel in all of the theories!
Problem is that now you need to explain why Zelda in BoTW knows about Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, why the Rock Salt's description mentions the Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass, how the Fierce Deity armor exists in ToTK as a buried treasure, and why the Rito exist at the same time as the Zora
i was already keen on the idea of totk changing the way the fallen hero timeline fits in, as well as the zonai being related to the picori. so id say this is a good proposal
Finally someone that understands that the calamity of 10,000 years ago isn’t the first calamity but at least the second
13:15 the first calamity was when ganondorf swept over hyrule as shown in the tears of the kingdom memories, it is the same calamity as the one 10,000 years prior to Breath of the Wild
the thing that breaks this theory as it is now, Zelda makes reference to previous games in the first BoTW memory. Though the timeline split of SS makes perfect sense. The way i interpreted ToTK is that with the absence of a calamity and usage of the triforce, the timelines stabilized and converged (entropy). However, the process caused catastrophes all across Hyrule, culminating in the destruction of the original kingdom and the survivors only holding mere myths of every hero that they couldn't confirm. The Zonai, being descendants of the gods, recognized their error in what caused the split in the first place and descended to rebuild what their ancestors indirectly destroyed. Rauru and Sonia history plays out the same.
Unless, Hyrule Warriors is canon and the timeline convergence allowed the sharing of stories and legends to cross over.
I don't understand what people mean by "the timeline converging", how should that happen? Link in OOT can not have been successful and unsuccessful at the same time. Or is there something I'm unaware of?
@@mikereisert2803 In Hyrule Warriors, Cia the evil half of the goddess of time connects several timelines together. Allowing characters from all timelines to interact. Whether you accept it as canon or not it's in a game published by Nintendo, and the only plausible explination for a "convergance".
We're also trying to abolish the "hero was defeated" split, since it's not a timeline, it's an Alternate Universe (and I don't think anyone liked the idea tbh). Time lines can "converge" but AUs need some sort of multiverse connector event, which hasn't happened in any game. So it's pure speculation with no supporting evidence.
The problem with nintendo for me is they say age of calamity is cannon but the first game isnt? I think hyrule warriors is cannon if the second game didnt make it clear that timelines can split and merged.
@@adammorin2955 age of calamity isnt canon. its an alternate story with several key points that differs it from canon, an example being that link already possessed the master sword for some time before AoC.
This theory works, but I believe the divergent timeline got restored into one by Zelda as a dragon. Repairing the master sword, the sword of time, the literal key of time. Fixing a previous incarnations blunder by creating the divergent timelines in the first place. Making a new history. A stable timeloop instead of a one way master sword hunt.
Wow this is the first time i heard a fanmade timeline better than the original
dude i cant believe this, yesterday before i went to spleep i was thinking how the timeline could to have sense and i maked an imaginary timeline in my head with almost the same arguments as you the next day yt recommends me this video, lol
I recently watched the cutscenes of Skyward Sword, and people seem to not understand what happened with time travel in that game, so let me explain.
At the end of the game, after defeating demise, Link puts the Master Sword back in it's pedestal, in the past, Impa also stays behind because, as it turns out, this is the time period she comes from, but she says she'll see Zelda again. After the two go through the Gate of Time back to the present, the old woman who's been guiding Link and Zelda this entire time reveals she's Impa, then dies. We then close on a shot of the Master Sword in it's pedestal.
All this to say, everything that happened in the past carried over into the present, meaning, there was no timeline split, everything that happened happened in ONE timeline. Is it a time paradox? Especially with Demise dying two times? Yes, but that's just how the story works, and everything makes less sense if there's a timeline split.
That's how I interpreted it as well back when the game came out. However, it has too many paradoxes. Therefore, I created a theory that fixes all of the paradoxes but as a result also requires a timeline split. I'd encourage you to check out my other theory video if you're curious.
This works very well, the only problem I see is the references to other Zelda games that would be in a separate timeline from botw and totk
It's always fun to see different takes on the story/timelines
This guy is an actual genius!
You deserve more subscribers.
I would have never thought about the Minish being Zonai, but it honestly would make a ton of sence. The Minish were advanced enough to create Armos, which resemble a lot of similarities to Construct. The size being a huge debunking reason is not as hard as one thinks, as Zonai had Ascend, which allowed them to phase through solic objects. Maybe they could also shrink as well.
The minish also still exist in the lore, because in BOTW/TOTK, you can still randomly find rupees by cutting grass, which lore wise are placed by the Minish to bless hylians with fortune
Swap the Oracles and Link's Awakening and you're set. The end of Oracles has Link go on a boat. The beginning of Awake has that boat foundering at seam
I personally agree, but I didn't want to deviate from the official timeline where I didn't need to.
this deserves way more views
The zonai becoming the picori is tough to accept but does make more sense the more I think about it. It'd be far from the first time such a dramatic evolution would take place, considering how zora have become rito and kokiri have become koroks in this series. Also, Hidemaro Fujibayashi, director of both botw and totk, got his start on the capcom zeldas which included minish cap, and it's clear the picori weren't forgotten about during the development of botw either as they explored the idea of including them during development.
still tough to swallow without direct confirmation but it is plausible imo
Now can we change the timeline to add saving Marin from being trapped as a seagull forever to it ?
honestly I think that the official timeline was just thrown together by a bunch of people who've never even played the games, but just was told one of them involves time traveling. anyway, your timeline actually makes alot of sense and cleared up some of my thoughts about the series, thank you!
also remember nintendo claimed to say we can change the timeline whenever new details come to light. That basically means they are clueless to the timeline then we are
in the end of 2 of the timelines, we have games that have Triforce shards followed by games that end with Hylians living outside of Hyrule: New Hyrule for Spirit Tracks, & that super expanded Hyrule for Adventure of Link.
it isn't impossible that Old core Hyrule had to be funded once again in the point where the 3 timelines are joined together.
This definitely makes way more sense then the official. I especially like that botw and totk actually fit in now.
Probably the only problem with this is that the "hero" of the calamity "from 10,000 years ago" is implied to be a zonai, or at least part zonai. You can unlock "the ancient hero's aspect" in totk and donning this gives link features that resemble a strange mix of zonai and hylian. He also has red hair, matching up with the depiction of the hero on the paintings in botw.
So the ancient calamity would have to take place before the zonai became the picori. Or at least not long after
how in the world is your channel so small? That video was absolutely excellent and whether or not it fits the canon properly, which honestly nothing can, it was extremely well made and entertaining. Kudos to you man. You've gained a subscriber
I thought i was the only one that felt the Depths were similar to the Dark World from AlttP! Love the connection!
Dang Maui good video 😁
Thx bro!
A theory that I think makes sense as to why the downfall timeline exists is that it's thematic and functionally "the og timeline"
Being that it's the timeline if no time travel occurs and to fit the triforce is the "Power" timeline with Adult being Courage and Child being Wisdom, Link having the Courage to save the world or using his wisdom from his journey to stop Ganondorf before he does anything but both of these require time travel to occur which leads to Downfall happening without it and it's why other games don't generate a new downfall timeline
I believe in leaving the current timeline structure intact for canonical reasons. Then it just becomes a question of BOTW and TOTK placement. My theory is that the descent of the zonai and the establishment of the kingdom of hyrule take place a long time after the events of the entire timeline such that the name and tradition of the princess zelda is lost ergo the naming of Queen Sonia, of whom the current totk Zelda is descended from and still carries the bloodline of the goddess hylia. The imprisoning war takes place, which takes parallels with the predating events of Skyward Sword in which the Demon King invades with his forces and is ultimately sealed away. These however are completely separate events. Then the lifting of the sky islands with is another parallel to skyward sword, I am pointing these out because I believe there is some cyclical symbology here involving the orobouros, and while these are obviously not the same events, the similarities are a nod to this cyclical nature of history in a way repeating itself. Fast forward a bit and we get the divine beasts made by the Sheikah and the events depicted in the botw mural to defeat the calamity take place. A very long era of peace takes place before botw's calamity takes place. Events of botw, then totk, where zelda gets sent back to Queen Sonia, gets the decayed master sword, and gets a little too hungry and swallows a divine relic, surprisingly not choking.
Needless to say, I don't think Nintendo takes the timeline very seriously. They would rather focus on the story of their game be consistent with that game or games in the case of a sequel, but not to the extent of the entire series spanning decades to remain consistent/coherent. I mean they actually made a game over scenario a canonical timeline split. My bet is they want these newest titles to be as far removed from the absolute mess of the timeline as they can be, hence the whole zonai founding hyrule kingdom and the absurd 10000 years gap. Hyrule Kingdom falling and being established over and over is not a new concept in the series, so they can drop a founding of hyrule pretty easily.
I like your take on it, if Minish Cap does happen after the First Calamity, i'd love to see a DLC for TOTK showing Vaati being unsealed
my understanding was that the defeat timeline came from child link going to the future, winning, and coming back to stop ganondorf, but adult link was technically a different timeline, so he still, technically, lost once, in the timeline where he vanished into the future(or paradoxes or something). I agree him losing is an unsatisfying reason for a timeline split, because if that were the case, there would be a split for every game where he lost, even without time travel, but i feel like simpler changes are better here.
Id like to note that the hero that fought in the war of 10,000 years ago, resembles a zonai, a hylian, and some sort of reptillian which we see statues of in the depths of TOTK’s hyrule, perhaps some zonai went into the depths and became reptillian and in the time before the war of 10,000 years ago, resurfaced, had evolved to slightly resemble hylians or had children with hylians, and subsequently the hero of that time was born and fought alongside the sheikah and zelda of the time
Also I love this timeline, but I only have ONE problem with it.
In TOTK when you complete all Shrines, you get access to an outfit that is supposed to represent the hero that dealt with the Calamity 10K years ago. The problem? That Hero looks like a Zonai. The Zonai have all gone by that point in your timeline and have all turned into Picori...So why is that Hero a Zonai?
It feels a lot more sensible that incarnations of Ganondorf in your supposed timeline are calamity beasts or forms of such named Ganon as opposed to Ganondorf who for all this time is still sealed under Hyrule Castle. The calamity reoccurring feels more like Ganondorf having occasional moments of control to break through Rauru's imprisoning attack rather than it being an endless cycle of rebirth as prophesized by Demise. In a way by not defeating Ganondorf outright in the imprisoning war Rauru kinda screwed over Hyrule by fulfilling Demise's prophecy.
small mistake I noticed was that you said zelda was with rauru and the sages when ganondorf was sealed and she protected the master sword until totk. In totk however, rauru and zelda talk about how there must have been a timeline without zelda in the past but ganondorf was still sealed by rauru. This was why the master sword was in the korok forest in botw but appears in the light dragons head in totk
Saw a video that suggested that demise is actually Ganondorf making his the original Demon king sealed in the deeps of the earth the hate and chaos emitting his body manifesting as the demon king, people call this entity demise since no one remembers Ganondorf no more, Demise will curse link and Zelda and his power reincarnates on a new Ganondorf every 100 years, until the first calamity where Ganon is almost ready to revive
It's nice to finally see someone tals about a potential timeline split in Skyward Sword! I've been sayingnthat for years, that if Link went back in time to defeat Demise, Demise never would have turned into the Imprisoned and been squashed by the statue. So we'd have one timeline where Demise is defeated years ago and the Master Sword is never forged, and one where he was not and turned into a big evil avocado.
The reason why there's 3 timelines is very specific. Each timeline represents one of the three bearers of the triforce. The adult timeline is the one where Zelda has awakened as a sage, and link is gone, representing the timeline of wisdom, the child timeline obviously represents link, as that's the timeline where he actually lives out the rest of his life and becomes the blademaster from twilight princess, representing the timeline of courage, and the downfall timeline is ganondorf's timeline, representing the timeline of power. It's not an arbitrary decision, or a random what-if
About the Zonai becoming Picori, there is one small problem with that theory. From my research, in the original Japanese version, the Zonai are flat out said to have become all but extinct by the time Rauru is ruling as king of Hyrule, with him and Mineru being the last of their kind. While the similarities between the Picori and Zonai are fascinating, it could perhaps just be an example of convergent evolution for the physical similarities, cultural adoption for the architecture and symbolic motifs, and just coincidence for being able to forge special items (after all, the Sheikah were also able to construct similarly advanced and magical items).
The one thing I'd like to point out is that the Zonai look vaguely like humanoid Remlit (the cat things from Skyward Sword). Big ears, furry, etc. It's possible that just as the Parella may have become the Zora, the Remlit became the Zonai. Likewise, the Loftwings may have become Oocca. Since both races would have lived in close proximity to each other in the sky, it makes sense that they'd both have advanced technology.
Saving this in my history for after I beat the game. This has been really pacing through my mind.
It's better than the canon timeline, I'll give it that.
I wish people would have just accepted that the different Zelda games aren't always connected though. Ultimately, it would have made things make a LOT more sense.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought there's a Time split on skyward sword
Playing the game ib the first ever intro made me realise this Timeline and i waited this kind of video
Where would you put the two Dynasty Warrior game in that timeline ? For me we need to consider them.
Personally, I consider them spin-offs, but if you twisted my arm, I would place hyrule warriors after twilight princess and after an event where a new Ganondorf is born and then sealed through out the past. Since all locations of Ganondorfs soul in that game are in that timelines history and for Age of Calamity, it would exist as a timeline before BotW
i really liked this. ive personally thought that botw/totk was seperate from any timeline for many reasons. splitting the timeline all the way back at skyward sword is a good way to try to fit it with the rest
Hey, this is fantastic and arguably presents a better understanding of the lore of the series compared to way more popular Zelda Timeline discussions both pre and post TotK's release here. I also really appreciate your understanding of time travel as a mechanic (I've found WAY too many popular Zelda timeline videos where it genuinely feels like the author of the video had a very weird idea of how time travel worked that went against a lot of known facts about the games themselves) and the description of the Downfall timeline as a "What-if" scenario, which is exactly how I describe it to people when talking about why it's a problem when compared to the other more concrete two that can co-exist at the same time. One question, though: have you heard of the Accursed Timeline Theory? It presents the same idea of Skyward Sword causing the Downfall Timeline rather than OoT's what-if scenario. It's not identical to yours, but it has a lot of similarities and is the only other major theory put forth by fans that agrees with your analysis of AlttP's Master Sword backstory as a basis for a drastically different timeline that spun off thanks to Skyward Sword (if interpreted as such, rather than the "closed loop" that the in-game text would imply). Give it a Google, there's a publicly available PDF document about it, and I think it's really great. Though, I really like how you made TotK's backstory of the founding of Hyrule as a parallel, alternate universe version of Ocarina of Time; I think that's just perfect, honestly.
I'm still watching the video, but I already love it!
I got a pretty good idea to sort out the timeline. Takes a little retconning to fill in missing details in previous games, though.
Creation: The golden goddesses create the world, the triforce, and hide the triforce to prevent its abuse.
The Demon War: Also called the Interloper War or the Great Calamity. Demise, the Demon King, leads demons from the Depths to the surface to conquer. Hylia sends hylians into the sky on floating islands and creates the cloud barrier to protect them. All we have to do is retcon that Hylia is a zonai, and since she's never really revealed what she is? We're set.
Skyward Sword: Game takes place as normal. Just need to retcon the time gap between SS and the Demon War to fit with the memories in Tears of the Kingdom. With Link being 17 in this game, and an orphan since his parents are gone, let's say he's one of the new generation born to Skyloft. This means it's been, say, 20 years or so since the Demon War.
Hyrule Founding: SS Link and Zelda have a daughter, Sonia, and return to the surface. Sonia goes on to hook up with Rauru, one of the last zonai surviving from the Demon War. Sonia and Rauru officially found Hyrule as King and Queen. We just have to retcon they have a child. This means the founding takes place a generation or two after SS.
War of the Bound Chest: Tears of the Kingdom memories take place here, right after Hyrule is founded, calling this the Imprisoning War. After the events of the memories, a hero steps up to trap the rampaging demons left behind after Ganondorf's imprisonment in the Bound Chest.
Minish Cap: Next game, no changes needed. Vaati sends guards looking for the Triforce like the prologue for the game says. The ending of the game provides an actual bad ending (Downfall Timeline) and a good ending.
Downfall Timeline ***
Vaati succeeded. Zelda is turned to stone, Link falls. The sages seal Vaati to prevent Ganondorf's awakening.
The Triforce War: Overlaps with the Sealing War. With no ruler, Hyrule descends into chaos. A thief steals the Triforce, wishing for power, being possessed by Demise and becoming the beast Ganon and turning the sacred realm into the dark realm, being banished from Hyrule and ending the war.
Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure happen as normal. Time passes.
Link to the Past happens. Then Oracle of Ages, Oracle of Seasons, Link's Awakening all back to back. Time skip. Link Between Worlds and Triforce Heroes. Another time skip. OG Zelda and Zelda 2. This completes the downfall timeline.
Good Timeline ***
Vaati is slain, Zelda is saved, Hyrule is saved.
The Fierce War: A war is fought over the found Triforce, but Hyrule is kept together by the royal family surviving Vaati's invasion.
Ocarina of Time: No downfall timeline here. Just the Adult Timeline where Zelda severs the line of heroes by sending Link back, and the Child Timeline where Link warns a young Zelda and Ganondorf's coup is prevented.
Good Adult Timeline ***
Ganondorf returns, the sages trigger the Great Flood to seal Hyrule from him.
Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Spirit Tracks happen as normal. Only thing to note is these Links are not of the Hero's line since Zelda severed the line at the end of OOT. This timeline ends with a New Hyrule and a time of peace.
Good Child Timeline ***
With Ganondorf in prison, Link gets to be a child with Zelda and Malon. After a few months Link heads off to find Navi.
Majora's Mask happens with Link leaving Termina to return to Hyrule. Link settles down with Malon and the two go on to start Ordon Village.
Ganondorf is slated for execution, the execution fails, Ganondorf slays the sage of water, and gets banished to the Twilight Realm. 100 years later Twilight Princess plays out like normal.
This timeline goes onto the Shiekah developing tech based off zonai ruins, Hyrule readies itself for the Calamity. This leads into BotW and TotK.
Finally, if you want to explain the easter eggs referencing the previous games in BotW you can insert Hyrule Warriors (inb4 "reeee! non-canon!") between TP and BotW so heroes of legends of all timelines get together for a short time to share names and tales.
With this idea of the timeline this means there's multiple Ganondorfs:
You have the first Ganondorf during the founding of Hyrule that becomes possessed by the Demon King and is sealed by Rauru for millennia.
You have another Ganondorf Dragmire born during the Fierce War that is in OOT and goes on to either be flooded out by the sages or fails to be executed and is banished to the Twilight Realm. This second Ganondorf is slain, eventually, in both timelines.
You then have the third Ganondorf that goes on to get the Triforce and turned into the beast Ganon. This Ganon goes on to be resurrected multiple times before eventually there's nothing left of his torn spirit and he is just a mindless monster eventually slain.
What about FI being the voice of the master sword in botw / totk?
This timeline is awesome! I've always thought that the idea of the third timeline split being a result of Link dying during Ocarina of Time was a bit contrived; an afterthought used to shoehorn in the early games somewhere. A timeline break at Skyward Sword, the only other game where time travel occurs (of I remember correctly), makes more sense imo.
Besides games explicitly meant to follow each other (TP after OoT for instance) I've always looked at each game as an MCU style multiverse.
But then I also prefer the three goddesses creating the world and leaving the Triforce behind, and wish they hadn't been like "psych, a goddess named Hylia is the super powerful special final girl and now Zelda is her decendant who holds ALL of the Triforce" because then it makes it seem ridiculous that Link is still just a normal dude who has to save this stupidly OP princess...
What about the Goddess Sword (White Sword of the Sky) that you get from the sidequest of restoring the mother goddess statue? And the other former amiibo items that can be found diegetically throughout Hyrule?
BotW/TotK takes place before OoT with Zelda going back in time taking place before SS. The time Zelda goes back to features the very first Ganondorf who is sealed and can't be reincarnated as he is technically not dead. So OoT Ganondorf would be the first reincarnation of the TotK Ganondorf. During the time that he is sealed, SS eventually happens and Demise is defeated. After his defeat, the essence of Demise searches for a new vessel in the sealed body of Ganondorf. Ganondorf being sealed, can not be reincarnated as he isn't dead, but the essence/malice/blight/etc of Ganondorf seeps out into the many forms of Ganon we see throughout the timeline. Strangely enough, the act of Zelda getting shot back thousands of years into the past creates a Time Vortex pulling scenes, ruins, artifacts, histories from a multiverse of timelines into BotW/TotK making it difficult to place it's actual timeline placement.
This is a good timeline but there is still a few plotholes, like the biggest one that bothers me is that we meet the ghost of the first king of hyrule named Gustaf in minish cap,
Also in this timeline u could say the picori blade is the 4 sword and then the 4 sword later gets turned into the master sword,
Also I still think a timeline merge happened at some point because it's obvious the events of past games is relevant to botw/totk because there are a lot of references and mentions of past events
Okay, but everyone keeps on forgetting that The Past Hyrule, Zelda travels to in ToTK is exacty the same as present Hyrule. If these two events were to take place so far apart that there would be other heroes then past hyrule would be geologically different than in BoTW and ToTK like every other game. In the Geoglyphs we can clearly see a near identical version of hyrule, just without the castle as it had not been built yet, they were even on the Great Plateau, which would not exist in present day hyrule if the continets have changed, like every other game.
This isn't actually a problem, if you think of BotW and TotK as the most amount of area we've ever seen in one game. We can say that the other games take place in different sub sections of hyrule as the kingdoms location and borders changed
This is the most comprehensive timeline I've ever seen. In Spanish we would say "Nintendo se sacó esa timeline del culo". Great job.
It would be cool as fuck is somehow Vaati Returned and was a big boss of the DLC in the skies, with a new secret sky island. Ever since I saw the early drawings of the game with Rauru and the tears, it looked like Picori to me. I thought maybe they were Picori (Zonai can still be connected to them) and Vaati would return as the Wind Mage, which would be fitting for the skies in Tears.
Big problem actually. I agree that skyward sword does split the timeline, but since in the timeline where Zelda and link move down to the earth, demise never utters the curse that allows his hatred to reincarnate.
in a cutscene zelda mention the hero from the skies (skyward sword), the hero who trael throught time (oot), and the hero of the twilight in botw so according to ur timeline it seems that these events or the most of them never occured even because they are are completly exist in a difirent tieline from botw ...could you explain this ?
Honestly it’s crazy that randomly saying the picori snd the zonai are the same completely fixes the timeline and makes it way cleaner. That being said: loved it!
I like it a lot, it would make it a whole lot more simple, but sadly, Fi is recognizable in the master sword in totk😕
I'm not the most well versed in the official timeline and why it was set up the way it was, but this video makes it feel a lot more linear with less story gaps! Loving the ideas!
main issue is that we don't know what happened to the Zonai. you say they "went into hiding" but I do not remember where in the game it said that.
I just thought of something. the "fallen" timeline make sense meta wise because every game that came out prior to OoT is in that line. so if not for us, the player, Link would of never defeated Gannon causing a shift in the timeline we were first in. the fallen timeline exist NOT because we lost but because prior to November of 1998 we never played.
Yeap exactly what i thought
Butbibalso think, since Demises curse seems to be unbreakable and for the eternity, eventually all possible scenarios will happen and all stories could happen in one timeline
Point blank: It all makes sense.
I feel like taking the line that Rarau from totk is the first king of Hyrule at face value is an oversight. If he sealed Ganondorf that far back in the timeline, then the fact that there are reincarnations of Gandondorf are a gigantic plot hole by itself. I think its much more likely that he became the first king of hyrule after every other game besides botw. Much like the theory of him founding Hyrule after the great floods of windwaker considering Rito already exist in this point in the tineline of Rarau's (totk) founding of Hyrule.
It's a non issue if you accept that this is a different Ganondorf that's been reincarnated just like all the other Links and Zeldas, it's been confirmed by Nintendo that BotW happens way at the end of all the time lines to the point that all the previous games are mere shadows of legends
FINALLY somebody else acknowledges that there should be a timeline split with Skyward Sword. I'd personally reserve it for only BotW and TotK, but those games make so much more sense if you just disconnect them from the events of the others.
I would put the old games on the timeline where Demise is killed in the past and Link + Zelda depart back to their present. The reason being that Demise creates his curse before dying, clearly intended to be an origin for the Ganon we've been fighting. BotW and TotK would go on the timeline where Demise was crushed by a temple and killed outright, never getting to create his curse. The Ganondorf in this timeline, in spite of being nearly identical to his OoT counterpart in terms of personality, has more in common with Demise. For this reason, I think he's more of a direct reincarnation than the product of a lingering grudge. Not to mention his Demon King title and obviously similar appearance in that form.
All that for these 2 games to take place at an absurdly long time after everything, to a new founding of Hyrule
Okay, I have an explanation for the fallen timeline. Zelda, after beating ganon, sent link to the past and let him prevent the conflict, which makes plausible that after breaking time that way, Zelda let the third outcome of the battle against ganon resolve as well, with him winning. Now we have the three possibilities of the conflict resolved because Zelda broke time
This timeline has a bit of a problem, as it is heavily implied that Ganondorf has been sealed beneath Hyrule castle since the time of Hyrule's founding in TOTK. This would make it impossible for a form of Ganon to exist that is a Gerudo, as the spirit that would reincarnate into him is sealed beneath the castle. Because of this, any game that exists within this timeline with a Ganondorf would have to take place after TOYK for the cyclic reincarnation of Ganondorf to continue.
Nobody willing to accept this could just as easily be a parallel universe with a brand new timeline
It took me about 2:30 hours to finally grasp the entire thing, but I get it now. I like it, and now have another version to consider
Kinda surprised you didn’t bring up the timeline split in age of calamity
I personally feel that it's non canon, but it would just be a timeline split before BotW.
Nice theory, the timeline is so fun to dissect, my one issue though is how does this explain the existence of the outfits of the hero of time, winds and twilight being in tears of the kingdom? also weapons like the dusk bow and biggorons sword?
I mean those are simply gimmicks from the creators really, as they are also amiibo items. It's not possible for them all to exist in the same game canonically, sure Zelda is a franchise with lore, but first of all it's a video game made by game developers.
Why is there a Nintendo switch shirt in BOTW then 😂 is Nintendo a company in hyrule then? lol
@@copperhopper7507 those r clearly dlc non canon chests though. I think the thing that irks me is that all the classic outfits are enshrined in zonai ruins with the old maps leading to them, almost like they are intended to be part of zonai history
Granted, since the game hasn't been out yet for long there aren't a lot of videos on the topic yet, but this one has definitely been the best take on a timeline placement for TOTK I have seen yet.
I do actually like the idea of the Zonai and the Picori being the same thing. It's quite out there as far as theories/headcanons go, but I still think it has merit. Various races have gone through quite radical reimagings/redesigns throughout the series, and as you said, there is still noteworthy overlap between the two.
PS: Another nugget to support your theory: Afaik the Four Swords trilogy and the Oracles games are the only ones that include humans named Din, Nayru, and Faroe, who imo are quite likely human incarnations of the three godesses, the same way Zelda is of Hylea. And BOTW/TOTK does include dragons based on the three godesses as well, who might as well be the human incarnations of the three godesses, who just like Zelda ate magatamas for one reason or another.
Not sure I agree with all the details here, but I definitely like the ideas that the TotK events might help explain the "fallen" timeline and/or be related to the potential timeline split from SS 🤔
this is the best theory I've seen so far
Anyone else hoping that, if they make a TOTK version of “Age of Calamity”, it’d be about Zelda’s side of the story (stuck in the past)?
If nothing else it’d be fun to imagine all the ways the zonai’s Imprisoning War (and the resulting ripples in the present) that could have happened. 😊
Seriously! Just imagine being able to save Sonia (even if her Stone's still stolen), among other stuff. So much untapped and shiny new Lore! 🤩😍🤩 There was, after all, the rumored game idea of actually playing as Zelda in so sort of Ancient Hyrule (before they decided to stick with the more standard Link-run plot).
The section around the 5 minute mark going through the timeline would've been improved by voicing what the changes were because... I'm only listening to this video while I work so that video data is lost on me
Good timeline, but I think that there's a couple of holes. For one thing, after the events with Rauru and Zelda, Ganondorf is sealed for god knows how long, and isn't in action until TOTK, which parts of your narration/visuals somewhat contradicted. Also, in BOTW, there is a direct reference of Fi still residing within the Master sword, which wouldn't make sense in your timeline, as the sword only came into prominence later down the line.
This all makes so much sense now
definitely more than 6 years cause we see Hudson's child get sent to gerudo village
This honestly makes more sense than "The three timelines converged into a new unified timeline". Like what does that even mean?
And even yet, there’s another branch in botw that is similar to the SS split. Terreko aka gegg. He was their during the Calamity 100 years before botw and he went back into. with no terreko, botw happens. But the timeline when he does go back to warn Hyrule of the Calamity, it cause it to prematurely happen a day early and the events of Age of Calamity happens.
Thank you! I've been so annoyed at the contradiction of OoT in the past setting in TotK. How was Ganondorf around during the reign of the founding royal couple of Hyrule and not at all under suspicion of the king in the Ocarina child era?
For me, it's much easier: Some Time after 'Four Swords Adventure', Ganondorf finally won the fight against the next Link, but in this big War, Hyrule was totaly destroyed. Some times later, the Zonai landed on Earth and they were so powerfull, that Ganondorf had to go back west. After some time, Rauru foundet Hyrule again with the help of the human Survivors and then the Backstory of TotK taking place. While the real Ganondorf was sealed for more then 10.000years, his Course of Hate, the Calamity Ganon was growing, while the Shiekah building their future technology and many years later, the Calamity comes and were destroyed by them (the Backstory of BotW). 10.000years later BotW and TotK taking place.
So it's all possible, without changing the Storyline Nintendo gave us 🙂
If i would be wrong in something, please tell me. Maybe i forgot some facts. But i think it's the only way, the Nintendo-timeline and the story of the new games could both be possible together.
This is now my headcannon.
I am confused on the Totk Ganondorph situation in relation to the pig Ganon. How is he still sealed by Rauru but is reincarnating? Can there be multiple incarnations of Demise at the same time?
I figured the pig demon ganons were leaks of Ganondorfs power, like the Calamity Ganon in BotW
@@arikaaa69 Oh, so were they also Gerudo men as well?
@@JakeSmith-mq5dc aside from 4 Swords adventures Ganon. I figured the pig Ganons were monsters made from the power that leaked from the sealed Ganondorf, like the Calamity Ganon in BotW. That these ganons (Link to the Past, Oracle, Zelda1) were never Gerudo men
It doesn't make sense to me.
OoT Ganondorf was not some manifestation, but a Gerudo male with dreams and ambitions, that took very different paths in the following three timelines.
Having TotK's Ganondorf be a reincarnation far in the future after any/all of the three timelines makes more sense than having TotK's Ganondorf predating OoT Ganondorf.
@@UltimateTobi In the video's proposed timelines, OoT and TotK take place in different timelines, branching off at Skyward Sword. Thus none of the Downfall Timeline ganons are related to OoT Ganondorf